twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 11 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Battery Question
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/877cba6eeffc1ec0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 4:55 am
From: "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

"SteveB" <oldfart@depends.com> fired this volley in
news:0iq7q6-ut91.ln1@news.infowest.com:

> Look Lloyd, we're all entitled to do something stupid occasionally. I
> went to the auto store, and I needed some water to put into my
> batteries, since people said DO NOT put tap water in there. So, they
> had a gallon for like $8, BUT, it specifically said it was new and
> improved battery water, so I bought a gallon.
>

I didn't ask to call you stupid, I asked what it was. Here in red-neck
shade-tree mechanic land, if a parts store dared to carry something that
outrageous, they'd probably get dope-slapped by every customer who came
through the door. They carry enough dumb-shit useless accessories as it
is.

Besides, most grocery stores carry "new and improved battery water" in
the bottled water department <G>. (always have, for steam irons)

LLoyd

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:35 am
From: "Bill Noble"

"Steve Lusardi" <stevenospam@lusardi.de> wrote in message
news:has68k$svv$03$1@news.t-online.com...
>
> SteveB,
> It is clear you have not maintained these batteries. Battery consumption
> starts the day they are made and is actually quite linear. This
> degradation appears as capacity loss in coulombs, even with the best care.
> Poor maintenance just quickens that slippery slope. There are measures you
> can take to extend their life, like desulphaters and the like, but I for
> one don't consider them economical. My advise is buy new ones and purchase
> "Smart" chargers like "Battery Tender" for each one. Immediately after
> use, plug them in. These things really work and they pay for themselves in
> short order.
> Steve

Steve L - are you aware of a source for a 6V smart charger I could use to
maintain battery on an older car - Iknow I could build one, but today I'm
lazy

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to get shot
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2cb13e029b3482d9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 5:17 am
From: "SaPeIsMa"

"tankfixer" <paul.carrier@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.253b1259b7918b426a5@news.bytemine.net...
> In article <83q2d5pe2d9ihnokfkafjfnip5f4025ji2@4ax.com>, a6ahlyv02
> @sneakemail.com says...
>>
>> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 19:49:01 -0700, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>> tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com> got double secret probation for
>> writing:
>>
>> >In article <o012d5tp754pffjdfovjctnf1qa1r2ja3g@4ax.com>, a6ahlyv02
>> >@sneakemail.com says...
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:05:58 -0700, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>> >> tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com> got double secret probation for
>> >> writing:
>> >>
>> >> >In article <qlo1d5t5qr0facp45pf153t2o53709qrut@4ax.com>, a6ahlyv02
>> >> >@sneakemail.com says...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:30:24 -0500, in the land of
>> >> >> alt.usenet.kooks,
>> >> >> grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost) got double secret
>> >> >> probation for writing:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> >Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in
>> >> >> >news:u3i1d59shvhvgfckv5l3auqofftnah8lie@4ax.com:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> Here is where you support your conclusion that the researchers
>> >> >> >> ignored
>> >> >> >> anything:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >1) How many of the victims were lawful CCW holders?
>> >> >> >2) How many were law enforcement?
>> >> >> > a) On duty?
>> >> >> > b) On assignment?
>> >> >> > c) Off duty?
>> >> >> >3) How many were persons neither CCW holders or law enforcement,
>> >> >> >meaninign
>> >> >> >criminals?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >4) Exactly what were the circumstances of the shooting?
>> >> >> > a) They were minding thier own business and were attacked.
>> >> >> > b) They were looking for trouble.
>> >> >> > c) They were law enforcement in the normal course of duty.
>> >> >> > d) The were law enforcement actively involved in a case.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Perhaps if I could get this information, which is not forthcoming,
>> >> >> >I would be
>> >> >> >on firmer ground. However lacking this data thier conculsion is
>> >> >> >not only
>> >> >> >suspect, it is preposterous.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> So you are guessing and claim your guesses are valid evidence of
>> >> >> what?
>> >> >
>> >> >I'd say his questions indicate the reasearches had a predetrmined
>> >> >outcome and wrote their report to exclude any information that
>> >> >contradicts that conclusion.
>> >>
>> >> So the questions are in now facts? Really?
>> >
>> >If you are unable to answer his questions just say so.
>> >You won't look so much of an ass if you do.
>>
>> Since you fail to provide the links that would be required the
>> questions are a fallacious attempt to divert.
>
>
> http://works.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1087
> &context=dennis_culhane
>
> Go ahead, read it.
> You will find they selected data that would skew the results.
>

They also reference Kellerman as a valid basis, when it's a study which has
been discredited

>
>>
>> Dishonesty at best.
>>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:42 am
From: Laff@alot.com

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 03:52:07 -0700, Gunner Asch
<gunner@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:

>"Lenin called them "useful idiots,

We call 'em republicans. For who else could support an
ideology that has a clear and manifest historical
record of working AGAINST american ideals, against the
people, and FOR the wealth and corporate class.

The American historical record clearly shows that
conservatims has FOUGHT every major policy, innovation,
law or agenda that eventually (when adopted) led to the
rise of the middle class and made america prosper.

>" those people living in
>liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support
>to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that
>would hang them.

Yep, Nixon, Reagan were funneling weapons to
totalitarians, despots, murderers by the tons. Reagan
sold arms to sworn enemies, brought Saddam Back and
propped him up in his war with the same despots we sold
weapons to.

Reagan gave aid, comfort, intelligence and weapons to
the same murderers who supplied Al Queda with a safe
haven to plot 9-11.

> Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked
>passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us
>today.

We know why Conservatives fought to keep slavery.
Underlying the fact they believe (and still do) that
separation of the races was okay, and that a state was
superior to a national government.

That's why we call you racist tin-hatters exactly what
you are.

>Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement,
>reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit
>the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"

Neocon idiots, calling people "evil empires" didn't
seem to work

Taking credit for what millions of Europeans did to
defeat the Soviet union is just an example of
self-serving stupidity.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e7f0ec85c173eaea?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 5:42 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Buerste" <buerste@wowway.com> wrote in message
news:M0hAm.1243$cL1.715@newsfe20.iad...
>
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4ad18acd$0$22539$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>
>> "Buerste" <buerste@wowway.com> wrote in message
>> news:MhaAm.74388$944.62570@newsfe09.iad...
>>>
>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:4ad10ff8$0$5010$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Buerste" <buerste@att.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:T07Am.158603$nL7.66932@newsfe18.iad...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4ad09559$0$22519$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Buerste" <buerste@att.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:Xe0Am.27111$tG1.14396@newsfe22.iad...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:ccvvc55o99bt8m3cf67ja1k8rt9lapgvog@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 09:13:43 -0500, the infamous Jeff M
>>>>>>>> <NoSpam@NoNoThanks.Org> scrawled the following:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>RBnDFW wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Cliff wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSTRE5981JK20091009
>>>>>>>>>>> Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That was pretty fast.
>>>>>>>>>>> Tossed out wingers & lying rethugs, saved
>>>>>>>>>>> world economy, removed nukes & other weapons, knows science
>>>>>>>>>>> exists & etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Just getting started I suppose.
>>>>>>>>>>> Tell gummer <VBG>.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A lot of saliva hit the ground when that was announced.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>By the types inclined to spitting their tobacco juice on the floor,
>>>>>>>>>no
>>>>>>>>>doubt. Who do you think should have won it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Khadaffi? It makes as much sense as Obama or Gore, doesn't it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Seen on a bumper sticker: ARM THE HOMELESS
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>> Khadaffi? It makes as much sense as Obama or Gore, doesn't it?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would have been racist not to give the NPP to Obama. When I
>>>>>>> think of Obama, I think of Carter, Gore and Arafat anyway, now it's
>>>>>>> official. Next year, Ahmadinejad!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here's one to think about, Tom.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a statement by the Taliban, regarding Obama winning the
>>>>>> Nobel:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We have seen no change in his strategy for peace. He has done
>>>>>> nothing for peace in Afghanistan. He has not taken a single step for
>>>>>> peace in Afghanistan or to make this country stable. We condemn the
>>>>>> award of the Noble Peace Prize for Obama. We condemn the institute's
>>>>>> awarding him the peace prize. We condemn this year's peace prize as
>>>>>> unjust."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And here's the one from the Republican National Committee:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "The real question Americans are asking is, What has President Obama
>>>>>> actually accomplished? It is unfortunate that the president's star
>>>>>> power has outshined tireless advocates who have made real
>>>>>> achievements working towards peace and human rights. One thing is
>>>>>> certain - President Obama won't be receiving any awards from
>>>>>> Americans for job creation, fiscal responsibility, or backing up
>>>>>> rhetoric with concrete action."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Republicans and the Taliban: two peas in a pod, eh? d8-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ed Huntress
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Obama's going to be the sitting American president, the most powerful
>>>>> man in the world, while a nuclear Iran attacks Israel. He is
>>>>> impotent. Any bets?
>>>>
>>>> Sure. One hundred says a "nuclear" Iran doesn't attack Israel while
>>>> Obama is in office. Are you on?
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You keep forgetting, I'm NOT a Republican.
>>>>
>>>> I don't forget. I just thought you'd find the comparison interesting.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ed Huntress
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Now, notice I didn't say Iran would use nukes. I go a Grant!
>>
>> Yes, I noticed that. So, they need to have a bomb, but they may or may
>> not use it, right? That's what I take from your use of the phrase
>> "nuclear Iran."
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>>
> You don't think Iran already has nukes? How quaint. IIRC, Russia is
> "missing" a large number of nukes and refined nuclear material. Google:
> "missing Russian nukes" Gee, and who benefits from turmoil in the ME?

I find it unlikely. The fact that they're still doing design work on
Pakistani-type implosion triggers suggests that they haven't had a Russian
one to look over, or they wouldn't be wasting their time.

>
> " A former top official at the Department of Energy told ABC News that
> Goss's statement understated the threat. There could be enough missing
> material in the Russian inventory to make hundreds or thousands of nuclear
> weapons, but no one -- neither the Russians nor Western intelligence
> agencies -- knows for sure, the former official said."
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Antigun Senator Shoots intruder!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/61f35b550671b40e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:05 am
From: "HH&C"

On Oct 11, 6:41 am, Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
> ?
> Isn't it funny this sort of news usually doesn't get on the "main
> media"? A while back Carl Rowan, a writer turned congressman and a
> vocal anti-gun guy shot an intruder in his D.C. home. I wonder if
> anyone ever thinks to ask if the guns were registered. Oh, to be among
> the "elite"! Dick
>
> Democratic Anti-Gun Senator Shoots Intruder
>
> Looks like it took about three weeks to surface & start making the email
> rounds. another one we didn't see on the National News.... Wonder Why?
> Of course not!!
>
> Anti-Gun Senator Shoots Intruder Elitism at its finest!
> It appears that once again, what's good for the goose is not necessarily
> good for the gander as far as liberals are concerned.. In other words,
> they say one thing but mean two sets of rules:
> one for them, the intellectual elite and another for the unwashed
> masses.
>
> This NC Democrat State Senator is a die-hard anti-gunner. He has voted
> for every anti gun bill that has crossed his desk, but when someone
> invaded his house, he picked up a gun for self defense.
> Hypocrites!
>
> Aug 24, 2009 "Long time Anti-Gun Advocate State Senator R. C. Soles,
> 74, shot one of two intruders at his home just outside Tabor City, about
> 5 p.m. Sunday", the prosecutor for the politician's home county said.
>
> The victim, Kyle Blackburn, was taken to a South Carolina hospital, but
> the injuries were not reported to be life-threatening, according to Rex
> Gore, district attorney for Columbus, Bladen and Brunswick counties.
>
> The State Bureau of Investigation and Columbus County Sheriff's
> Department are investigating the shooting, Gore said.
> Soles, who was not arrested, declined to discuss the incident Sunday
> evening.
>
> "I am not in a position to talk to you," Soles said by telephone.
> "I'm right in the middle of an investigation."
>
> Soles, a top-ranking Democrat and the longest-serving member of the
> legislature, already was the subject of an SBI investigation over sexual
> misconduct allegations with former male clients.
>
> The Senator, who has made a career of being against gun ownership for
> the general public, didn't hesitate to defend himself with his own gun
> when he believed he was in immediate danger and he was the victim..
>
> In typical hypocritical liberal fashion, the "Do As I Say And Not As I
> Do" Anti-Gun Activist Lawmaker picked up his gun and took action in what
> apparently was a self-defense shooting. Why hypocritical you may ask?
> It is because his long legislative record shows that the actions that he
> took to protect his family, his own response to a dangerous life
> threatening situation, are actions that he feels ordinary citizens
> should not have if they were faced with an identical situation.
>
> It has prompted some to ask if the Senator believes his life and
> personal safety are far more valuable than yours or mine.... But, this
> is to be expected from those who believe they can run our lives, manage
> our money, raise our kids, and protect our families better than we can.

Hmmmm? Anti-gun and gay. How predictable.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - The World Recognizes that Obama is a GREAT President..do you?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/80d2a62a45fc0baa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:08 am
From: "Lib Loo"

"Hawke" <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
news:harn4p$tip$1@aioe.org...
>
>>> The world recognizes that Obama is a great man and leader...do you?
>>
>>
>> When / If Obama does something great, I will gladly aknowledge it. I'm
>> still waiting..........
>>
>> In the mean time, how about helping me out. Give me a list of these
>> great things Obama has done. Oh, and never fear, I'm not holding my
>> breath. Take your time. No hurry. I'm sure you can come up with a few
>> good lies.
>>
>>
>
> It's pretty clear from your attitude that no matter what Obama
> accomplishes you're not going to see it as any big deal and will just
> try to downplay and denigrate everything he does. You sound like one of
> the people who are responsible for us having Bush in the White House.
> Maybe you can share with us some of the great things he did. I'm sure
> you won't have to lie either.
>
> Hawke

Let us know when Obama does something great, and we will put your statement
to the test. In the mean time, feel free to search your history books for
examples of something great he may have already done.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:12 am
From: "Lib Loo"

"HH&C" <almostcutmyhairtoday@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a56d7076-4a15-42b1-b584-a87b03cbfe60@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 10, 8:34 pm, "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>> Lib Loo wrote:
>> > "Curly Surmudgeon" <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote in message
>> >news:pan.2009.10.10.21.01.07@live.com...
>> >> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:41:36 -0700, tankfixer
>> >> <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>> In article <Xns9C9FCC987F794lloydspmindspring...@216.168.3.70>,
>> >>> "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" says...
>>
>> >>>>> you get into heaven based upon faith, you get the
>> >>>>>> Peace prize for deeds. Not the other way around.
>>
>> >>>> Since the decision was made 8 months before there WERE any deeds,
>> >>>> we must assume that now the Peace Prize is awarded for stated
>> >>>> intentions -- not even ACTUAL intentions, just the lies he told to
>> >>>> get their notice.
>>
>> >>> I think I'll nominate my grand daughter due to be born in
>> >>> November.. On the premise she holds the promise to do great things
>> >>> for world peace.
>>
>> >> You don't understand the basis for the Nobel Peace Prize, do you?
>>
>> > Obviously you don't. How's that gay parade working out for you?
>>
>> > According to Nobel's will, the Peace Prize should be awarded "to the
>> > person who SHALL HAVE DONE the most or the best work for fraternity
>> > between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies
>> > and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."
>>
>> Putting and end to the Bush regime, and it's ignorant legacy certainly
>> qualifies then.
>
> Bush didn't run again. The prize goes to Bush, by your stupid
> definition.
>

Only goes to show that libs thought they were still running against Bush.
Looks like they are stil running against him. Now THAT is star power!

>> Tell you what. Let me know when Rush or Beck get's their award.
>> There is an award for bigotted "entertainment" isn't there?
>>
>> --
>> John R. Carroll
>
> Kindly show how Rush or Beck are bigotted.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:15 am
From: "Lib Loo"

"Curly Surmudgeon" <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2009.10.11.06.22.36@live.com...
> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:57:34 +0200, "George Bush" <still@president.usa>
> wrote:
>
>> Nope, just an affirmative action nigger democrat who got lucky.
>
> When I was a kid we had a horse on the farm with a similar problem as
> yours. Functioned normally until it got excited in a gallop then it
> would close its eyes and run in a straight line no matter what obstacle
> was in its path. Everyone in the family tried their own technique as did
> neighbors, the vet and animal feed store owner. All to no avail.

It sounds like everyone in your family suffered from the same retard gene as
you. You still enjoyed the sex though, didn't you? We know the horse did.

>
> Eventually we learned to give the horse tasks within it's capabilities.
> I hope you are never put in a position above street sweeper.
>
> --
> Regards, Curly
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Beats off in the Rose Parade
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:20 am
From: "Lib Loo"

"RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> wrote in message
news:lZudncG1476sykzXnZ2dnUVZ_radnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:9a87681e-c499-46c4-9760-36b82d134189@p20g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 10, 7:08 pm, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> RogerN- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> /
> /LOL...ask Jim how life is doing in a few weeks.
> /
> /TMT
>
> Off the OT, just curious what are you doing with Electronics? Any
> interesting projects?
>
> RogerN
>
>

He's working on an electronic amplifier for his mommies dildos that will
alert him when they are in need of cleaning.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:33 am
From: "HH&C"

On Oct 11, 9:12 am, "Lib Loo" <heezb...@crazymother.kom> wrote:
> "HH&C" <almostcutmyhairto...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:a56d7076-4a15-42b1-b584-a87b03cbfe60@b2g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 10, 8:34 pm, "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
> >> Lib Loo wrote:
> >> > "Curly Surmudgeon" <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:pan.2009.10.10.21.01.07@live.com...
> >> >> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:41:36 -0700, tankfixer
> >> >> <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >>> In article <Xns9C9FCC987F794lloydspmindspring...@216.168.3.70>,
> >> >>> "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" says...
>
> >> >>>>> you get into heaven based upon faith, you get the
> >> >>>>>> Peace prize for deeds. Not the other way around.
>
> >> >>>> Since the decision was made 8 months before there WERE any deeds,
> >> >>>> we must assume that now the Peace Prize is awarded for stated
> >> >>>> intentions -- not even ACTUAL intentions, just the lies he told to
> >> >>>> get their notice.
>
> >> >>> I think I'll nominate my grand daughter due to be born in
> >> >>> November.. On the premise she holds the promise to do great things
> >> >>> for world peace.
>
> >> >> You don't understand the basis for the Nobel Peace Prize, do you?
>
> >> > Obviously you don't. How's that gay parade working out for you?
>
> >> > According to Nobel's will, the Peace Prize should be awarded "to the
> >> > person who SHALL HAVE DONE the most or the best work for fraternity
> >> > between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies
> >> > and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."
>
> >> Putting and end to the Bush regime, and it's ignorant legacy certainly
> >> qualifies then.
>
> > Bush didn't run again. The prize goes to Bush, by your stupid
> > definition.
>
> Only goes to show that libs thought they were still running against Bush.
> Looks like they are stil running against him. Now THAT is star power!

Bush was the man to beat, and they just barely squesked by. They're
so proud of their accomplishment.

"Quickly! Give this man a Nobel Peace Prize."

Laugh, laugh, laugh.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:53 am
From: "HH&C"

On Oct 11, 2:21 am, Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:57:34 +0200, "George Bush" <st...@president.usa>
> wrote:
>
> > Nope, just an affirmative action nigger democrat who got lucky.
>
> When I was a kid we had a horse on the farm with a similar problem as
> yours. Functioned normally until it got excited in a gallop then it
> would close its eyes and run in a straight line no matter what obstacle
> was in its path. Everyone in the family tried their own technique as did
> neighbors, the vet and animal feed store owner. All to no avail.
>
> Eventually we learned to give the horse tasks within it's capabilities.
> I hope you are never put in a position above street sweeper.
>
> --
> Regards, Mr Ed
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> A Horse, Of Course!
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's a wonder they didn't just shoot you.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT:Global Warming- NEWSFLASH, NOAA: July Temperature Below-Average for
the U.S
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/23eeba10e87c4a45?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:13 am
From: "HH&C"

On Aug 13, 7:07 pm, Cliff <Clhupr...@aol.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Aug 2009 21:16:02 -0400, Michael <gai...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
> >Message-ID: <bf5km41latboe7ief3dajgohhnu2hgr...@4ax.com> wrote:
> >> On Sun, 08 Feb 2009 13:41:43 -0500, T. Keating <tkuse...@ktcnslt.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Without a Gulf stream to carry away the equatorial thermal energy
> >>> accumulation, hurricanes and weather systems of the past will seam
> >>> insignificant to those of the future.
>
> >> The Gulf Stream has already stopped.
>
> >>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=gulf+stream+stopped&btnG=Google+...
>
> More confusion.
> Per the ONE claim it stopped for 10 days in November 2004 and
> then restarted.
> That cannot happen.
> FAR too much momentum in the ocean current circulation patterns.
>
> >http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories2009/20090810_julystats.html
>
> >More Global Warming Hoax confirmation today.
>
> Liar.
> You really don't have a clue, do you? None at all.
>
> Any area will have periods of above & below average temps for that area.
> Hence the "average". Some areas in the Western US set record highs per your own
> link.
> IIRC China was having a very hot summer.
> I'd guess the arctic was warm too.
>
> http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/?report=national
> [
> Alaska had its 2nd warmest July since records began in 1918, with a temperature
> 2.9°F (1.6°C) above the 1971—2000 average.
>
> Alaska had its 7th warmest May—July on record, with a temperature 2.1°F (1.2°C)
> above the 1971—2000 average.
>
> Alaska had its 27th warmest January—July on record, with a temperature 0.4°F
> (0.2°C) above the 1971—2000 average.
> ]
>
> http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/
> [
> Selected Global Highlights for June 2009
> Based on preliminary data, the globally averaged combined land and sea surface
> temperature was the second warmest on record for June and the January-June
> year-to-date tied with 2004 as the fifth warmest on record.
> Large portions of each inhabited continent were substantially warmer than
> average during June 2009. The warmest anomalies were most notable in parts of
> Africa and most of Eurasia. The most notable cooler-than-average temperatures
> were present from the southwestern U.S. to the Northern Plains, the Canadian
> Prairie Provinces, central Asia, and across the boundary of northeastern China
> and southeastern Russia.
> ]
> [
>
> El Niño–Southern Oscillation (ENSO) transitioned from ENSO-neutral to El Niño
> conditions across the equatorial Pacific Ocean during June 2009. If El Niño
> conditions continue to mature as projected by NOAA, global temperatures are
> likely to continue to threaten previous record highs.
> ]
>
> Wingers are fools.
> --
> Cliff

El Nino is nothing new. Neither are fluctuations in global
temeperature. Quit your panic. Take a deep breath.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:15 am
From: "HH&C"

On Oct 11, 12:36 am, Hawke <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
> HH&C wrote:
> > On Oct 10, 11:09 pm, Hawke <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
> >> Buerste wrote:
> >>> "Cliff" <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
> >>>news:n2n0d5d0lobregm78mvb29s3qk7aat8o6g@4ax.com...
> >>> <snip>
> >>>> Your background in knowing anything is a hoax.
> >>>> Cliff
> >>> Well, I have to follow what the Nobel Peace Prize winners say about Global
> >>> warming, peace with Israel, etc...don't I?
> >>> NPP winner Yasser Arafat quote:
> >>> "Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an
> >>> all-out war, a war which will last for generations."
> >>> Some things don't change from year to year with the NPP, do they? Do we
> >>> kill Jews first or stop Global Warming first?
> >> No they don't. They have an agenda, which some right wing folks don't
> >> like, but that usually indicates it's a good one. In this case they gave
> >> the prize to someone who has and will continue to do good things for the
> >> U.S. and the world. How weird of them, huh? As to the Jews, they are not
> >> in any danger. If you knew the facts you would know that it's the Arabs
> >> who are in danger from the Israeli military, not the other way around.
> >> And you would know global warming is real. But as usual you are in the
> >> dark about everything.
>
> >> Hawke
>
> >> By the way, I'm back.
>
> > I see that you didn't spend your absent time educating yourself.
>
> How could you tell anyway? I've already got an advanced degree in
> political science and yet you think I don't know what I'm talking about.

The discussion is about climate change, not politics. Your degree
does you no good here.

> You thinking I'm not educated would be like you thinking that Gunner
> doesn't know anything about guns. Both are way off base.
>
> Hawke

You've already admitted that you are not educated nor trained in
climate change.

Go away.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:16 am
From: "HH&C"

On Oct 11, 6:49 am, Gunner Asch <gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:15:45 -0700 (PDT), "HH&C"
>
>
>
>
>
> <almostcutmyhairto...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Oct 10, 11:09 pm, Hawke <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
> >> Buerste wrote:
> >> > "Cliff" <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
> >> >news:n2n0d5d0lobregm78mvb29s3qk7aat8o6g@4ax.com...
> >> > <snip>
> >> >> Your background in knowing anything is a hoax.
> >> >> Cliff
>
> >> > Well, I have to follow what the Nobel Peace Prize winners say about Global
> >> > warming, peace with Israel, etc...don't I?
>
> >> > NPP winner Yasser Arafat quote:
> >> > "Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an
> >> > all-out war, a war which will last for generations."
>
> >> > Some things don't change from year to year with the NPP, do they? Do we
> >> > kill Jews first or stop Global Warming first?
>
> >> No they don't. They have an agenda, which some right wing folks don't
> >> like, but that usually indicates it's a good one. In this case they gave
> >> the prize to someone who has and will continue to do good things for the
> >> U.S. and the world. How weird of them, huh? As to the Jews, they are not
> >> in any danger. If you knew the facts you would know that it's the Arabs
> >> who are in danger from the Israeli military, not the other way around.
> >> And you would know global warming is real. But as usual you are in the
> >> dark about everything.
>
> >> Hawke
>
> >> By the way, I'm back.
>
> >I see that you didn't spend your absent time educating yourself.
>
> He was in jail again.
>
> All he did was give cons blow jobs. A job he is admirably suited for.

I think that is the definition of "Punk." No wonder I'm not a fan of
punk rock.

> Gunner
>
> "Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in
> liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support
> to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that
> would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked
> passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us
> today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement,
> reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit
> the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"
>
> Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:20 am
From: "HH&C"

On Oct 11, 1:48 am, "Buerste" <buer...@wowway.com> wrote:
> "Hawke" <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
>
> news:hari8k$pc6$1@aioe.org...
> <snip>
>
> > And you would know global warming is real. But as usual you are in the
> > dark about everything.
>
> > Hawke
>
> > By the way, I'm back.
>
> Were you gone?
>
> This headline may come as a bit of a surprise, so too might that fact that
> the warmest year recorded globally was not in 2008 or 2007, but in 1998.
>
> But it is true. For the last 11 years we have not observed any increase in
> global temperatures.
>
> And our climate models did not forecast it, even though man-made carbon
> dioxide, the gas thought to be responsible for warming our planet, has
> continued to rise.
>
> Read:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8299079.stm

Can't be right. Models are human creations that never err.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:48 am
From: Larry Jaques

RCM only

On Sun, 11 Oct 2009 01:48:09 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
<buerste@wowway.com> scrawled the following:

>
>"Hawke" <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
>news:hari8k$pc6$1@aioe.org...
><snip>
>> And you would know global warming is real. But as usual you are in the
>> dark about everything.
>>
>> Hawke
>>
>> By the way, I'm back.
>
>Were you gone?

Being plonked, I didn't know he was gone, either, until he got a new
posting address which I now _do_ have plonked.

>Read:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8299079.stm

Good 'un. Oh, no! There goes the Left's "concensus" on AGWK!

--
Seen on a bumper sticker: ARM THE HOMELESS

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: metalworking project
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/82fa3637e1af670c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:23 am
From: Doug White

GeoLane at PTD dot NET <GeoLane at PTD dot NET> wrote in
news:o0f2d5pr3cpgaqc9rf4hfvi0bjh1ocnvk1@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 10 Oct 2009 12:56:34 GMT, Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu>
> wrote:
>
>
>> The meetings usually involve a guest speaker, and those have
>>been a bit mixed, but many are really fascinating. The talk by the
>>professional safecracker was my favorite.
>>
>>Doug White
>
> Geez. What an interesting topic. Can you summarize some of what you
> remember? I don't even own a safe, but I've always wondered how it
> was done.

He covered a variety of approaches. He started out working on time locks
for the Walthm Watch company. Folks would ignore the annual maintenance,
and the locks would fail. For big bank vaults, the best approach was to
bust through a wall. For old safes, you can drill out the locking bar in
the combination lock. He discussed all of the new tricks they have with
tugsten carbide parts to make it hard to drill, and glass rods that
activate extra locking mechanisms if they get broken. If you are a legit
safe cracker, you have time to use approaches that are too slow for
crooks. Safes are rated in terms of the number of hours it takes to bust
in. As long as you have a security detail check up more often than that,
you are in good shape.

Plenty of folks just use their birthday, or an anniversary for their
combination. There were also lots of cases (like deceased store owners)
where folks would write down the combination someplace, and the easiest
thing was to find that. Frequently it was pretty convenient to the safe.
The alarm code for my house was neaty written down in small print near to
the alarm box when we moved in. Probably not where a thief would find it
in time to disarm the alarm, but there if the homeowner (who knew where
to look) forget the code.

Doug White

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Undercover stings expose 'gun show loophole'
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/cd58a895b0fcb68f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:31 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
news:rZ6dnT1jgpj_tkzXnZ2dnUVZ_sydnZ2d@posted.cpinternet...
>
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4ad073a3$0$22529$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>
>> "SaPeIsMa" <SaPeIsMa@HotMail.com> wrote in message
>> news:4JqdnYWUXvrWWFLXnZ2dnUVZ_gmdnZ2d@posted.cpinternet...
>>>
>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:4acf7ed7$0$31284$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> And what about well armed criminals? According to ATF, they're getting
>>>> about 30% of their guns from gunshows. That's a new one on me; I had
>>>> only seen the old, much lower, results from a DoJ survey.
>>>>
>>>
>>> And naturally you can support that 30% claim with EVIDENCE
>>
>> Ask the ATF. I have no idea. And it's unlikely that you do, either.
>>
>
> So your claim was BULLSHIT

It's not my claim. It's the ATF's claim. I have no idea if it's correct or
not -- I just read about it a day or two ago. See above.

>
>
>> You'll find some discussion of it in NYC's report, for which I posted the
>> URL in an earlier message.
>>
>
> You're still shoveling the manure, liar

Read what I said above. If you have trouble with it, we can get you some
remedial reading lessons.

I spent some time a couple of years ago tracking down the DoJ numbers on
sources of criminals' guns, but I hadn't heard about this claim by ATF. Have
you? Do you know if it's accurate? And if you claim to know, *how* do you
know?

It sounds like you don't know, and that you're just blowing smoke, right?
That would fit your pattern.

--
Ed Huntress

>
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>> How about it, Strabo? Do you think the lack of background checks at gun
>>>> shows, which apparently supply a lot of criminals with their guns, is a
>>>> good idea? Do you think a background check infringes on your right to
>>>> keep and bear arms?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Since the premise is unsupported by ANY evidence, other than blind
>>> assertion, who cares
>>
>> Whether you care is up to you.
>>
>>>
>>>> Like, how many have you been kept from keeping and bearing? I have as
>>>> many as I want, and more than I can shoot these days. Nobody has
>>>> infringed upon me. And I live in NJ. d8-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have been refused twice in the last 3 years
>>> I have a valid permit to carry, no criminal record and a name that is
>>> not very common.
>>> In one case, I appealed and the decision was reversed
>>> In the other, I just went back and did the NICS a week later and passed
>>
>> So, why were you refused in the first place?
>>
>
> Who knows ?
> I never found out
> Glitch in the system I guess
> If it happens again, I intend to sue
>

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:41 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CA0D987AB270Wereofftoseethewizrd@216.196.97.142...
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in
> news:4ad0f6df$0$22530$607ed4bc@cv.net:
>
>>
>> "Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9CA0917E0A17FWereofftoseethewizrd@216.196.97.142...
>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in
>>> news:4ad0c035$0$5003$607ed4bc@cv.net:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns9CA082842A4BDWereofftoseethewizrd@216.196.97.142...
>>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in
>>>>> news:4ad07919$0$31268$607ed4bc@cv.net:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:Xns9C9FEFE9FDB24Wereofftoseethewizrd@216.196.97.142...
>>>>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:4acf7337$0$31277$607ed4bc@cv.net:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:Xns9C9F79AF3C58FWereofftoseethewizrd@216.196.97.142...
>>>>>>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:4acf52f0$0$22507$607ed4bc@cv.net:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Klaus Schadenfreude" <klausschadenfreude@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> message news:bpiuc5hro5i3nvaits1re1tkd4opjku6iu@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> In talk.politics.guns "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"RBnDFW" <burkheimer@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>news:hanfds$o0h$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Zombywoof" <fishwings@live.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:mv3tc55gcrtse642vt1s6b6sem4199nl1t@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 15:54:32 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in message news:Xns9C9E8183C44C4hopewell@216.196.97.130...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "ArmyOfDorkness" <DorkAsKnight@hotmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:b5SdnZ08QbwyolPXnZ2dnUVZ_r-dnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Zombywoof" <fishwings@live.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:r48sc5l36kdqum1hfb4j38vvr87vsh7d36@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 7 Oct 2009 17:19:39 -0500, "r wiley"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <rawiley@southslope.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> message
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> news:c1ec22a7-3012-4aa4-a136-d340213b9705@k26g2000vbp.go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> og le gr ou ps.com ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bloomberg's administration brought a civil case
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> against 27 gun dealers targeted in its 2006
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> investigation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The city said it was not planning civil action this
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time around.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's time for transparency. How much did Bloomberg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> spend bringing the civil cases and what did he win.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The fact that Bloomberg is not suing this time suggests
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the cost-benefit ratio went against Bloomberg and his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fellow civil rights opponents.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In conducting this recent so-called "Sting Operation"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bloomberg
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is guilty of Conspiracy to break Federal Firearms laws.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> waiting for him to be prosecuted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should the people who did the "Sting Operation" against
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ACORN be prosecuted too? They were trying to smuggle in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kids to use in prostitution. Get a rope.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Actually, no, they weren't. That was a claim, not an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> acuality. The folks doing Bloomberg's sting were not
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claiming to purchase firearms, they actually did it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> But purchasing firearms is not a crime. Videotaping someone
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without their knowledge, in Maryland, *is* a crime.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For those who have commented here that no crime is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> committed until the gun is actually transferred to an
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> illegal purchaser -- no, that's not the case. Read the law.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Intent is enough.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Intent" usually is part of the charge in actual cases. But
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's retroactive, because it's very hard to prosecute
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intent before the fact of transfer. It may have been
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> charged without an actual transfer in some cases, but once
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a gun used by a person who can't purchase legally is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tracked back to the purchaser, intent is charged along with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the actual transfer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's actually easier to defend against the actual transfer
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than the "intent" charge.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Perhaps true, but there is also the issue of a Criminal
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Conspiracy, possible Fraud, and the breaking of each States
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> local Firearms Laws. --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you're referring to the NYPD operation, none of the above
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> applies. If
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it did, you'd be hearing about it from the NRA and pro-gun
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> organizations everywhere. All they're doing is grumbling and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cooking up antagonistic ads:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1009/Mobthemed_NRA_spot
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _a tt ac ks _Bloomberg_boosts_McDonnell.html?showall
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If there was any substance to your claims, they'd be taking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> him to court.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> And they conducted a similar operation three years ago,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bringing suit against 27 gun dealers. 20 of them now have
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> court-appointed monitors.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I understand it, these were medium-small businesses that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> just could
>>>>>>>>>>>>> not afford to take on NYC and their taxpayer funded
>>>>>>>>>>>>> bottomless well
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of money. They had no choice but to settle, and the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> monitoring was part of that. We
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all know that the quality of your justice is proportional to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the depth
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of your pockets.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>An interesting theory. Do you have any evidence to support it,
>>>>>>>>>>>>or is this something you came up with on your own?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> As industries go, America's gun industry generally consists of
>>>>>>>>>>> small and modest-sized companies, often family-owned: firearms
>>>>>>>>>>> scholar David Kopel has written that the nation's gun
>>>>>>>>>>> manufacturers would not be big enough to qualify for the Fortune
>>>>>>>>>>> 500 even if you combined them all into one company.[4] As many
>>>>>>>>>>> journalistic accounts have made clear, anti-gun litigators were
>>>>>>>>>>> not only aware that the expense of legal fees might grind down
>>>>>>>>>>> the resources of the target businesses, but actually made such
>>>>>>>>>>> infliction of costs a conscious strategy.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For example, according to one news report, one faction of
>>>>>>>>>>> private lawyers representing cities "argued against an early
>>>>>>>>>>> settlement" in strategy sessions, one reason being that
>>>>>>>>>>> "[p]rolonged litigation and larger legal costs .would increase
>>>>>>>>>>> the financial pressure on the industry to accept new curbs."
>>>>>>>>>>> Paul M. Barrett, "Gun Makers, Municipal Representives Ready to
>>>>>>>>>>> Meet on Settlement of Lawsuits", Wall Street Journal, Sept. 24,
>>>>>>>>>>> 1999.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/testimony_olson_4-2-03.ht
>>>>>>>>>>> m# no te s
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Again, it's an interesting theory. But the specific claim is that
>>>>>>>>>> the gun dealers wound up with court-appointed monitors because
>>>>>>>>>> they couldn't afford to defend themselves. Is there any evidence
>>>>>>>>>> to support that idea?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I've had some dealings with the ILA, and they are one determined,
>>>>>>>>>> and very capable, bunch of lawyers, lobbyists, and investigators.
>>>>>>>>>> They supplied me with quite a bit of information back in the
>>>>>>>>>> early '90s, when I was fighting against gun control here in NJ.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Here's *my* theory: They would have thrown their full legal
>>>>>>>>>> weight behind those dealers if they thought they had a chance to
>>>>>>>>>> prevail. So it would have been a fair fight.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't know if they did or not, but it's as logical a connection
>>>>>>>>>> as the one that's being made here about the poor dealers. So I'd
>>>>>>>>>> believe it if there was specific information to show they just
>>>>>>>>>> got bludgeoned in court. On the face of it, and given how the ILA
>>>>>>>>>> operates, it doesn't sound credible.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The ILA does not always pick it's fights rationally. I also have
>>>>>>>>> personal experience. They can be a bunch of asshole lawyers that
>>>>>>>>> know more than everybody else, even if they don't.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, you've told us that you know about laws that have been broken
>>>>>>>> but that no one will charge, and you've told us that the ILA is
>>>>>>>> irrational assholes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since you're so smart and insightful, Ghost, why don't you get
>>>>>>>> involved? It's not that hard. I've spent many hours at the
>>>>>>>> statehouse in Trenton, jawboning legislators. You shouldn't have
>>>>>>>> any trouble convincing the prosecutors in NV, TN, or OH why they
>>>>>>>> should bring charges. You can even cite the law for them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Give it a try. Right now, you're hiding your light on Usenet
>>>>>>>> newsgroups, where the only people you'll convince have no idea
>>>>>>>> about what's really going on, either. You could do your country a
>>>>>>>> service.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey asswipe, I did my time in the trenches. I have a family right
>>>>>>> now and pressing needs occaisoned by the collapsing economy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But don't worry, I'd rather burn the house down then see it go
>>>>>>> socialist.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you want to burn your house down, that's your business, Ghost.
>>>>>> It's too bad, though, that you and tankfixer won't give those states'
>>>>>> prosecutors' offices a call, and fill them in on all the law they
>>>>>> don't understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Apparently reading comprehension wasn't high on your educational
>>>>> priorities list.
>>>>
>>>> I can spot a fool, which you certainly are. Like tankfixer, you're
>>>> pretending that you KNOW that laws were broken, when you don't even
>>>> know much about the circumstances.
>>>>
>>>> The reason you won't call is because you know they'll laugh in your
>>>> face. I'm sure they get lots of amateur lawyers telling them what the
>>>> law is.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Did you miss the posting on NYS gun law that says NYS residents can't
>>> buy and possess "assault weapons" as defined by NYS? Do you notice that
>>> ther was no exceptions listed?
>>>
>>> Do you look at [18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and
>>> 478.30]"
>>>
>>> A person may only acquire a firearm within the person's own State,
>>> except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or
>>> shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the
>>> sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the
>>> State
>>> where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in
>>> any
>>> State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.
>>>
>>> Meaning if the sale would be illegal in the buyers state than it is
>>> illegal on the federal level, too.
>>>
>>> Since a NYS resident buying an "assault wepaon" is illegal in NYS than
>>> it is illegal if he buys it in another state, which makes it illegal
>>> federally.
>>
>> Nope. But you have no reason to believe the investigators weren't
>> residents of the states involved. Kroll has hundreds of contract
>> investigators all over the country. And even if they aren't state
>> residents, you have no idea what the law is regarding licensed private
>> investigators -- nor of the disposition of the guns after they were
>> purchased.
>>
>> So you really don't have any idea what laws were involved. You're the
>> kind of amateur who reads a statute, makes his own narrow interpretation,
>> defends himself with it, and makes a judge roll his eyes up to the
>> ceiling.
>>
>>>
>>> No exception is listed, and since this was not a law enforcement sting
>>> to entrap an unlawful seller (meaning there was no law enforcement reson
>>> for this) than I can hardly see why it isn't illegal.
>>
>> You'd better consult an attorney. You have no idea what would be involved
>> for a licensed investigator in this case. And you also have no reason to
>> believe the investigators weren't residents of the relevant states. If
>> you read the report, you'd have some things to question. As it is, you're
>> just making it all up in your head.
>>
>>>
>>> The fact that NYS won't prosecute should not be surprising. I suspect
>>> the fed can only act if the state does.
>>
>> Of course. You know the law so well. d8-)
>>
>> A purchase of a handgun comes under federal law. They run their own
>> investigations within states all the time. ATF doesn't need the state to
>> act first.
>>
>>>
>>> In any case those are the facts and you may ignore or disparage them at
>>> your whim. Your ignornace or disparaement does not alter the facts, but
>>> illustrates you for the fanatic you are.
>>
>> Pfffht. You're a fool playing a lawyer. You ought to know that there are
>> enough unusual things involved here that you'd need the opinion of an
>> experienced attorney to have any chance of knowing what elements of law
>> are involved. One thing is certain: If it was as you say, the states of
>> Georgia, South Carolina, and Virginia would have had them in court
>> several years ago. They'd LOVE to embarrass Bloomberg and the state of
>> New York.
>>
>> Since they haven't, but have only steamed themselves up and bitched a
>> little about it, it's pretty sure that there's nothing there to
>> prosecute.
>>
>
> So accroding to Ed the law is to complex for us mere mortals to understand
> ...

Mortals can do just fine with it if they spend the time to study it. Most of
us can at least recognize when a legal issue is potentially complicated.

Some people think they know all about it, to the point they claim that they
KNOW laws were broken but not prosecuted, and then they cook up all sorts of
speculative reasons about why there was no prosecution.

The circumstances in this case sound like there was no prosecution because
there was nothing to prosecute. And one would have to know the details of
the operation, as well as the laws regarding licensed private investigators
in the states in question, before making a claim that they broke the law. It
seems unlikely that's the case, because we know from past statements that
the states involved in the previous sting were not happy about it. There's
no visible reason for them not prosecuting, if there had been something to
prosecute.

> meaning we could easily violate laws we do not understand and be punished
> for
> unintentionally breaking a law that we did not understand.

Ignorance of the law is no excuse. That's gotten a lot of people in trouble.
However, a lack of knowledge often can be used to defend against a claim of
intent to break the law, which, more often than most people realize, is a
critical factor in many criminal prosecutions. So you usually get off
anyway, if you don't understand the law and you can convince the court that
you had no reason to believe you were breaking the law.

>
> And Ed does not seem to grasp what is fundementally wrong with that.

It's been with us, as a principle of law, for a couple of thousand years.

--
Ed Huntress

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:43 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9CA0DBBB02EEBWereofftoseethewizrd@216.196.97.142...
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in
> news:4ad0fa95$0$22549$607ed4bc@cv.net:
>
>>
>> "tankfixer" <paul.carrier@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:MPG.253a9523538b8c75689@news.bytemine.net...
>>> In article <4ad0cbb3$0$22545$607ed4bc@cv.net>, huntres23@optonline.net
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> "tankfixer" <paul.carrier@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:MPG.253a6484cbdeec64683@news.bytemine.net...
>>>> > In article <4acf503f$0$5003$607ed4bc@cv.net>, huntres23@optonline.net
>>>> > says...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> "RBnDFW" <burkheimer@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> >> news:hanfjp$o0h$3@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> >> > Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>> >> >> "Zombywoof" <fishwings@live.com> wrote in message
>>>> >> >> news:bd5tc5hch2vj1kfteed45h66k2f1coq4mj@4ax.com...
>>>> >> >>> On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 12:53:24 -0500, "RM v2.0" <Blah@spamsux.com>
>>>> >> >>> wrote:
>>>> >> >>>
>>>> >> >>>>> You do realize you're an ignorant stupid asshole farting
>>>> >> >>>>> asinine nonsense about that which you know entirely not shit,
>>>> >> >>>>> don't you, counselor doofus?
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> No? Well, then, ignorant maroon, let's try a little object
>>>> >> >>>>> lesson...
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> Precisely what law is it you stupidly think was broken?
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> Please be specific, explain in detail why you believe such
>>>> >> >>>>> utter horse shit and provide citations to the statute(s) you
>>>> >> >>>>> foolishly believe back up your absurd assumption. Times are
>>>> >> >>>>> tough and we need the laughs...
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> Jaybus Freaking Crisco, how fucking STUPID must one be before
>>>> >> >>>>> one thinks licensed law enforcement officers can't
>>>> >> >>>>> investigate and prosecute flagrant violations law? Seriously,
>>>> >> >>>>> where the FUCK do you get THAT kind of rock hard, super
>>>> >> >>>>> dense, singularity-type STUPIDITY!?
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> FYI, you stupid fuck, it's no more illegal than undercover
>>>> >> >>>>> officers making a drug buy. Duh fucking duh, duh, duh,
>>>> >> >>>>> ignorant luser...
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>>> ---
>>>> >> >>>>> Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep
>>>> >> >>>>> right. ------
>>>> >> >>>>> Why are so many not smart enough to know they're not smart
>>>> >> >>>>> enough?
>>>> >> >>>>>
>>>> >> >>>> Wow. Serious issues here. BTW the officers were out of their
>>>> >> >>>> jurisdiction and violated federal law, along with the dealers.
>>>> >> >>>>
>>>> >> >>> Mien Gott I've no idea how many times I'm going to have to make
>>>> >> >>> this point, but they were not Sworn LEO's. They were "PRIVATE"
>>>> >> >>> Investigators under the employ of Bloomburg using public monies
>>>> >> >>> to break the laws of numerous states & Federal Firearms Laws.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Oh, this is getting ridiculous. Tell us, what specific federal
>>>> >> >> firearms laws were broken? If you can't answer that, just tell us
>>>> >> >> about ONE state law that was broken.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I don't know about state laws, but it's a Federal violation to
>>>> >> > sell to someone who is not a resident of the state. For those
>>>> >> > investigators to buy a gun, they would have to misrepresent their
>>>> >> > state of residence. So that would be giving false information to
>>>> >> > buy a gun.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Nope. They were private investigators licensed in the states they
>>>> >> worked in.
>>>> >
>>>> > They don't LIVE in those states though, do they ?
>>>>
>>>> It seems likely that they do. Do you have some reason to believe they
>>>> don't?
>>>>
>>>
>>> They might, they might not.
>>> Did they transport the weapons purchased to NYC ?
>>
>> Why would they? Do you have some reason to believe they did?
>>
>> Did you read the report? If not, what's you're basis for speculating?
>>
>
> So then they were legal sales to legal state residents and the guns
> weren't
> moved out of the state?
>
> So NYS paid for the guns but let the straw buyers keep them?
>
> Which is it, 'cause it looks more and more like the sellers did absolutely
> nothing illegal.

No, no, no. Answer the questions; another question is no answer.

Did you read the report? Do you have some reason to believe they were
transported to NYC? If not, why are you speculating that they did?

Kroll has offices all over the country, and all over the world. Why would
the guns be transported out of state? Do you even know what happened to the
guns? If not, why do you think some law was broken?

--
Ed Huntress

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:54 am
From: rangerssuck

On Oct 11, 9:43 am, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "Gray Ghost" <grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9CA0DBBB02EEBWereofftoseethewizrd@216.196.97.142...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote in
> >news:4ad0fa95$0$22549$607ed4bc@cv.net:
>
> >> "tankfixer" <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>news:MPG.253a9523538b8c75689@news.bytemine.net...
> >>> In article <4ad0cbb3$0$22545$607ed...@cv.net>, huntre...@optonline.net
> >>> says...
>
> >>>> "tankfixer" <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>>news:MPG.253a6484cbdeec64683@news.bytemine.net...
> >>>> > In article <4acf503f$0$5003$607ed...@cv.net>, huntre...@optonline.net
> >>>> > says...
>
> >>>> >> "RBnDFW" <burkhei...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>> >>news:hanfjp$o0h$3@news.eternal-september.org...
> >>>> >> > Ed Huntress wrote:
> >>>> >> >> "Zombywoof" <fishwi...@live.com> wrote in message
> >>>> >> >>news:bd5tc5hch2vj1kfteed45h66k2f1coq4mj@4ax.com...
> >>>> >> >>> On Thu, 8 Oct 2009 12:53:24 -0500, "RM v2.0" <B...@spamsux.com>
> >>>> >> >>> wrote:
>
> >>>> >> >>>>> You do realize you're an ignorant stupid asshole farting
> >>>> >> >>>>> asinine nonsense about that which you know entirely not shit,
> >>>> >> >>>>> don't you, counselor doofus?
>
> >>>> >> >>>>> No? Well, then, ignorant maroon, let's try a little object
> >>>> >> >>>>> lesson...
>
> >>>> >> >>>>> Precisely what law is it you stupidly think was broken?
>
> >>>> >> >>>>> Please be specific, explain in detail why you believe such
> >>>> >> >>>>> utter horse shit and provide citations to the statute(s) you
> >>>> >> >>>>> foolishly believe back up your absurd assumption. Times are
> >>>> >> >>>>> tough and we need the laughs...
>
> >>>> >> >>>>> Jaybus Freaking Crisco, how fucking STUPID must one be before
> >>>> >> >>>>> one thinks licensed law enforcement officers can't
> >>>> >> >>>>> investigate and prosecute flagrant violations law? Seriously,
> >>>> >> >>>>> where the FUCK do you get THAT kind of rock hard, super
> >>>> >> >>>>> dense, singularity-type STUPIDITY!?
>
> >>>> >> >>>>> FYI, you stupid fuck, it's no more illegal than undercover
> >>>> >> >>>>> officers making a drug buy. Duh fucking duh, duh, duh,
> >>>> >> >>>>> ignorant luser...
>
> >>>> >> >>>>> ---
> >>>> >> >>>>> Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep
> >>>> >> >>>>> right. ------
> >>>> >> >>>>> Why are so many not smart enough to know they're not smart
> >>>> >> >>>>> enough?
>
> >>>> >> >>>> Wow. Serious issues here. BTW the officers were out of their
> >>>> >> >>>> jurisdiction and violated federal law, along with the dealers.
>
> >>>> >> >>> Mien Gott I've no idea how many times I'm going to have to make
> >>>> >> >>> this point, but they were not Sworn LEO's. They were "PRIVATE"
> >>>> >> >>> Investigators under the employ of Bloomburg using public monies
> >>>> >> >>> to break the laws of numerous states & Federal Firearms Laws.
>
> >>>> >> >> Oh, this is getting ridiculous. Tell us, what specific federal
> >>>> >> >> firearms laws were broken? If you can't answer that, just tell us
> >>>> >> >> about ONE state law that was broken.
>
> >>>> >> > I don't know about state laws, but it's a Federal violation to
> >>>> >> > sell to someone who is not a resident of the state. For those
> >>>> >> > investigators to buy a gun, they would have to misrepresent their
> >>>> >> > state of residence. So that would be giving false information to
> >>>> >> > buy a gun.
>
> >>>> >> Nope. They were private investigators licensed in the states they
> >>>> >> worked in.
>
> >>>> > They don't LIVE in those states though, do they ?
>
> >>>> It seems likely that they do. Do you have some reason to believe they
> >>>> don't?
>
> >>> They might, they might not.
> >>> Did they transport the weapons purchased to NYC ?
>
> >> Why would they? Do you have some reason to believe they did?
>
> >> Did you read the report? If not, what's you're basis for speculating?
>
> > So then they were legal sales to legal state residents and the guns
> > weren't
> > moved out of the state?
>
> > So NYS paid for the guns but let the straw buyers keep them?
>
> > Which is it, 'cause it looks more and more like the sellers did absolutely
> > nothing illegal.
>
> No, no, no. Answer the questions; another question is no answer.
>
> Did you read the report? Do you have some reason to believe they were
> transported to NYC? If not, why are you speculating that they did?
>
> Kroll has offices all over the country, and all over the world. Why would
> the guns be transported out of state? Do you even know what happened to the
> guns? If not, why do you think some law was broken?
>
> --
> Ed Huntress

Because it's more fun for him that way? Because that's the way he's
programmed?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: http://www.icfshop.com sell:UGG BOOT $50,nike jordan1-24$32,coach
chanel gucci LV handbags $32 /FREE SHIPPING FREE/
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/62fbc09e99f19ac3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:32 am
From: huangzhixian2013 huangzhixian2013

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== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:32 am
From: huangzhixian2013 huangzhixian2013

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http://www.icfshop.com/productlist.asp?id=s1 (ED HARDY)

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: conduit puller
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7dbd6b55a6f5802c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:50 am
From: "Karl Townsend"

I'm probably buying a used high tunnel or greenhouse this week...

The hoops are made of tubing and the ends have been drove in the ground.
Pulling these out without crushing will be a trick. I've got to do it 50
times. Worth making some sort of contraption. I know the O.D. is nominally
1.6" but not sure of exact number.

I could drill the O.D. between two steel blocks and then use 1/4" bolts to
clamp together. Then a loop of light chain to go around a long 2x4 for a pry
bar. This would work but it would be slow.

Better ideas?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Broken Jaw, Chuck ID ??? Need help please
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/dd4cca53672016bb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Oct 11 2009 6:53 am
From: "ant30dio@yahoo.com"

On Oct 11, 7:43 am, "Uffe Bærentsen" <leiti_NOSP...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
> > Wes
> I know that mine is bought brand new back in 1982 from this company:http://www.packardmachinery.com/
> If they are able to help or not I hvae no idea.
>
> --
> Uffe Bærentsen
> Denmark

Thanks, to all.................................
Uffe, I will look for that company.
Wes, Yes that is exzactly the way it works.
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc268/mrbreezeet1/Upload%20and%20forget/Jaw1.jpg

Have been talking to the Logan Yahoo group,here is what I found on my
chuck.
Made In U.S.A
Buck Tool Co.
Kalamazoo
444
http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/cc268/mrbreezeet1/Upload%20and%20forget/ChuckID004.jpg

Thanks, Tony

==============================================================================

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Sunday, October 11, 2009

rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 11 topics - digest

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