comp.lang.c - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

comp.lang.c
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c?hl=en

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Today's topics:

* Unions vs endian ness - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/ca5aa83a1be6ec84?hl=en
* HOT!!! 2009 Cheap wholesale True Relig Jeans at www.fjrjtrade.com <paypal
payment> - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/e20738707f735b9a?hl=en
* K&R hash table question. - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/e586297674784a96?hl=en
* Very difficult floating point question - 16 messages, 12 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/adc34d9ece8352c8?hl=en
* Authentic Designer Handbags EVOGUER.COM 15% OFF DISCOUNT!!!! - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/759ff1d69fad0a8d?hl=en
* What does it mean ; You are a Muslim?? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/3001c7dccd5989c1?hl=en
* Linked List - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/9487f40e5e1f0a1e?hl=en
* ISO C standard - which features need to be removed? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/441253f1401e8f94?hl=en
* A question about i++ in a for loop. - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/d7fb4c2106d775ed?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Unions vs endian ness
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/ca5aa83a1be6ec84?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Nov 27 2009 11:07 pm
From: Seebs

On 2009-11-27, root <root@localhost.localdomain> wrote:
> I am bit twiddling on a 32 bit integer quantity. Often I need to look at
> only the low 16 bits.
>
> For this I currently AND with a mask.
>
> It seems to me that it might simplify the code instead to have an union,
> union u {
> int32_t dw;
> int16_t w;
> };
>
> But my question is: will this run in to port ability problems if I move
> the code to a plat form with different endian ness?

Probably. Even ignoring the more general undefined behavior thing, there
is nothing about this to tell you whether you get the low-order or high-order
16 bits. Typically, that'd be low-order (little-endian) or high-order
(big-endian), but there have been weirder cases out there, etcetera.

Suggestion: Use a macro for the mask, use bit masking in it, and don't
sweat it -- I'd guess most modern compilers generate plenty-efficient code.

Another thing to consider is using an unsigned type, and then just doing
((uint16_t) x) to get the low-order bits.

-s
--
Copyright 2009, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HOT!!! 2009 Cheap wholesale True Relig Jeans at www.fjrjtrade.com <
paypal payment>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/e20738707f735b9a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 12:58 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: K&R hash table question.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/e586297674784a96?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 1:18 am
From: b4283

On 11月28日, 上午8時55分, Chad <cdal...@gmail.com> wrote:
> np->next = hashtab[hashval];
> hashtab[hashval] = np;
>
> If so, I believe the reason this is done because they are inserting a
> node at the head of a linked list.

thanks for the interpretation !
now I understand, it's about when collision happens that two strings
have the same hash value.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 1:22 am
From: b4283

On 11月28日, 上午1時50分, "osmium" <r124c4u...@comcast.net> wrote:
> How about page 144?  Note the modulo operator in the returned value.  That
> reduces the value to the range of the array.
>
> Segmentation faults result from running code, post the code.

My code was nothing, i used a rand() to assign random numbers for
array indexes to store an struct pointer.
After careful reading it again, I found that I missed the last line of
the hash() function, which

return hash % HASHVAL;

controls the hash to be a non-negative integer within the array range.

that's all for my question, thanks all for reply !

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Very difficult floating point question
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/adc34d9ece8352c8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 1:40 am
From: amit

This is a homework question so please don't give full answer, but I
really need a hint, I have no idea where to start...

Recall that in C, int and float are both 4 byte types. Consider the
following code.

main()
{
float f, g;
union { float f; int i; } u;
srand48(time(0));
f = drand48();
u.f = f;
u.i++;
g = u.f;
// ===== POINT A ===== //
}

At point A, will g be greater than f? Will it always be the next
representable floating point value after f? Can you explain your answers?

I tried printf'ing f and g at point A, but they both show up as equal...
I'm really confused. I don't really understand what the union does.

Thanks for any help!

== 2 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 2:08 am
From: amit

amit writes:
> This is a homework question so please don't give full answer, but I
> really need a hint, I have no idea where to start...
>
> Recall that in C, int and float are both 4 byte types. Consider the
> following code.
>
> main()
> {
> float f, g;
> union { float f; int i; } u;
> srand48(time(0));
> f = drand48();
> u.f = f;
> u.i++;
> g = u.f;
> // ===== POINT A ===== //
> }
>
> At point A, will g be greater than f? Will it always be the next
> representable floating point value after f? Can you explain your
> answers?
>
> I tried printf'ing f and g at point A, but they both show up as equal...
> I'm really confused. I don't really understand what the union does.
>
> Thanks for any help!

Anyone??

== 3 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 2:25 am
From: Ian Collins

amit wrote:
> This is a homework question so please don't give full answer, but I
> really need a hint, I have no idea where to start...
>
> Recall that in C, int and float are both 4 byte types.

They might be (and often are), but they may not be the same size.

> Consider the
> following code.
>
> main()
int main(void) please!

> {
> float f, g;
> union { float f; int i; } u;
> srand48(time(0));
> f = drand48();
> u.f = f;
> u.i++;
> g = u.f;
> // ===== POINT A ===== //
> }
>
> At point A, will g be greater than f? Will it always be the next
> representable floating point value after f? Can you explain your answers?

It's very difficult to answer without giving a full answer!

Study unions, see how they are laid out and then investigate the
representation of floats on your system.

--
Ian Collins

== 4 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 2:33 am
From: Rich Webb

On Sat, 28 Nov 2009 09:40:03 +0000 (UTC), amit <nospam@nospam.com>
wrote:

>This is a homework question so please don't give full answer, but I
>really need a hint, I have no idea where to start...
>
>Recall that in C, int and float are both 4 byte types. Consider the
>following code.
>
>main()
>{
> float f, g;
> union { float f; int i; } u;
> srand48(time(0));
> f = drand48();
> u.f = f;
> u.i++;
> g = u.f;
> // ===== POINT A ===== //
>}
>
>At point A, will g be greater than f? Will it always be the next
>representable floating point value after f? Can you explain your answers?
>
>I tried printf'ing f and g at point A, but they both show up as equal...
>I'm really confused. I don't really understand what the union does.

Warning: dumb analogy follows. A union is like a box into which one can
put a rabbit or a fox or a cabbage. One can put a cabbage into the box
but one can't then expect to take out a rabbit. Sometimes it's useful to
be able to pass around a "box" that can contain one of several objects
instead of having separate containers for each.

The construct your homework is examining -- put one thing into a union
but then take something else out -- isn't that uncommon (I first recall
seeing it back in the day in comp.sources.unix and thought "Hey, this is
neat!" but I was young and foolish in those days), however the result of
doing so is not specified.

That is, the result of taking the value of a union member other than the
value last stored into the union is unspecified by the standard. The
good news is that it's not undefined behavior, though, and a compiler
may, but is not required to, specify what happens if you do so.

I *think* what the question is getting at is to force you to look at
your compiler's representation of float and whether there may be one or
more bit patterns that are not legal representations of float. That part
is a good question but how it gets there is both shaky and compiler
dependent.

--
Rich Webb Norfolk, VA

== 5 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 2:40 am
From: "bartc"

"amit" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:heqr5j$832$1@aioe.org...
> This is a homework question so please don't give full answer, but I
> really need a hint, I have no idea where to start...
>
> Recall that in C, int and float are both 4 byte types. Consider the
> following code.
>
> main()
> {
> float f, g;
> union { float f; int i; } u;
> srand48(time(0));
> f = drand48();
> u.f = f;
> u.i++;
> g = u.f;
> // ===== POINT A ===== //
> }
>
> At point A, will g be greater than f? Will it always be the next
> representable floating point value after f? Can you explain your answers?
>
> I tried printf'ing f and g at point A, but they both show up as equal...

To how many decimals? Try as many as possible.

Or try printing the difference.

--
Bartc

== 6 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 2:58 am
From: ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)

amit <nospam@nospam.com> writes:
>Recall that in C, int and float are both 4 byte types.

I do not think so.

>u.i++;
>g = u.f;

»When a value is stored in a member of an object of
union type, the bytes of the object representation that
do not correspond to that member but do correspond to
other members take unspecified values«

ISO/IEC 9899:1999 (E), 6.2.6.1#7

Unless one can show that a float value does not have more
bytes than an int value in C, this means that some bytes of
the float value might have unspecified values after the
assignment. Therefore, the value of f might be unspecified
now. Possibly, it might even be an illegal representation.

== 7 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 3:16 am
From: Flash Gordon

amit wrote:
> This is a homework question so please don't give full answer, but I
> really need a hint, I have no idea where to start...

I don't think it is a very good one, but that doesn't help you. I will
point out the issues with it as well as suggesting some things...

> Recall that in C, int and float are both 4 byte types.

That may be true on the implementation you use, but it isn't always.
I've used C implementations where int was 2 (8 bit) bytes, and others
where int was 1 (16 bit) byte. All were valid. The size of float can
vary too.

> Consider the
> following code.
>
> main()

This form of definition of main is no longer valid according to the C
standard released in 1999, and even before them many would consider it
bad style. It is no longer valid because "implicit int" is no longer
part of the language. You should really use

int main(void)

> {
> float f, g;
> union { float f; int i; } u;
> srand48(time(0));
> f = drand48();

Those are not standard C functions, although I believe Posix defines
them. However, according to my information they are deprecated and you
should use the standard C functions srand and rand.

> u.f = f;
> u.i++;
> g = u.f;

This is a very dodgy way to do a very dodgy thing.

> // ===== POINT A ===== //
> }
>
> At point A, will g be greater than f? Will it always be the next
> representable floating point value after f? Can you explain your answers?
>
> I tried printf'ing f and g at point A, but they both show up as equal...
> I'm really confused. I don't really understand what the union does.

The union is allowing you to treat the bit pattern which represents the
float you stored as if it was an int. After modifying that bit pattern
as if it was an int it then allows you to treat it as if it is a float
again. I believe C does not actually guarantee that this will do what
your instructor thinks it does.

> Thanks for any help!

I'll assume you know how integers are represented in binary. Do you know
how floating point numbers are represented? If not, have a think about
it. A float (on your implementation) can handle some numbers a lot
bigger than an int (on your implementation), how does it do this? It can
also handle some numbers which are not whole numbers, how does it do
this? Obviously it cannot be using a simple representation like int does.

So you need to read up a bit on how your implementation stores float,
and I would suggest looking in the documentation for things like NaN and
INF (infinities).
--
Flash Gordon

== 8 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 4:43 am
From: Nick Keighley

On 28 Nov, 09:40, amit <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:

> This is a homework question so please don't give full answer, but I
> really need a hint, I have no idea where to start...
>
> Recall that in C, int and float are both 4 byte types. Consider the
> following code.
>
> main()
> {
>   float f, g;
>   union { float f; int i; } u;
>   srand48(time(0));
>   f = drand48();
>   u.f = f;
>   u.i++;
>   g = u.f;
>   // ===== POINT A ===== //
>
> }
>
> At point A, will g be greater than f? Will it always be the next
> representable floating point value after f? Can you explain your answers?
>
> I tried printf'ing f and g at point A, but they both show up as equal...
> I'm really confused. I don't really understand what the union does.

when you get the answer back could you post it here? I'm just curious
what the person who set this *thought* the answer was. It's either a
cunning trick question or the setter of the question is very
confused.

== 9 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 4:56 am
From: richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin)

In article <heqr5j$832$1@aioe.org>, amit <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

>At point A, will g be greater than f? Will it always be the next
>representable floating point value after f? Can you explain your answers?

This is not really a C question at all, since you're clearly supposed
to make enough assumptions about your C implementation that it comes
down to a question about floating point representations: if you treat
the bits of a floating point number as an integer, what happens when
you increment it? For IEEE floats, in most cases, you'll just be
incrementing the mantissa. Will that always increase the number?
What happens when it overflows into the exponent?

-- Richard
--
Please remember to mention me / in tapes you leave behind.

== 10 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 4:59 am
From: richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin)

In article <f042c2fe-a67a-4cc2-bfc5-0f05de798901@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>,
Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:

>It's either a cunning trick question or the setter of the question is
>very confused.

I don't think it's either. Most likely the setter is just using the C
program to make concrete a question about floating point formats, and
doesn't care about the fact that C is not guaranteed to behave as he
expects.

-- Richard

--
Please remember to mention me / in tapes you leave behind.

== 11 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 4:59 am
From: Ben Bacarisse

amit <nospam@nospam.com> writes:

> This is a homework question so please don't give full answer, but I
> really need a hint, I have no idea where to start...
>
> Recall that in C, int and float are both 4 byte types. Consider the
> following code.
>
> main()
> {
> float f, g;
> union { float f; int i; } u;
> srand48(time(0));
> f = drand48();
> u.f = f;
> u.i++;
> g = u.f;
> // ===== POINT A ===== //
> }
>
> At point A, will g be greater than f? Will it always be the next
> representable floating point value after f? Can you explain your answers?
>
> I tried printf'ing f and g at point A, but they both show up as equal...

I won't repeat all the comments about the problem with this
exercise -- it does not help you get it done. What might help is to
use the %A (or %a) format specifier in printf. If you have a version
of the C library that supports it (for example gcc with -std=c99) then
you can get printf to show you a representation of floating point
numbers that makes it much easier to see what is going on.

<snip>
--
Ben.

== 12 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 5:39 am
From: Eric Sosman

amit wrote:
> This is a homework question so please don't give full answer, but I
> really need a hint, I have no idea where to start...
>
> Recall that in C, int and float are both 4 byte types.

Maybe. Every `float' I happen to have seen had four bytes,
but I've encountered both two- and four-byte `int'. Other sizes
are possible, and not even the four-byte `float' is guaranteed.

> Consider the
> following code.

Missing some #include directives here, I think.

> main()
> {
> float f, g;
> union { float f; int i; } u;
> srand48(time(0));
> f = drand48();

No declarations for time(), srand48(), or drand48(). The
first is a Standard library function (for which you should have
#include'd <time.h>). The other two are not.

You get undefined behavior here for calling the time()
function via an expression of the wrong type, and with an
argument of the wrong type. You may also be in trouble with
srand48() and drand48(), depending on what they are and how
they expect to be called.

> u.f = f;
> u.i++;

Undefined behavior. In a union, only the element most
recently stored has a predictable value. You've stored the
`f' element, so the `i' is indeterminate. There's no telling
what you may get when you try to fetch, increment, and re-store
that indeterminate value.

> g = u.f;
> // ===== POINT A ===== //
> }
>
> At point A, will g be greater than f? Will it always be the next
> representable floating point value after f? Can you explain your answers?

The program is not even guaranteed to *get* to point A.
That said, it probably will get there, despite having invoked
undefined behavior three times. But there's no telling what
kind of curdled value you'll find in `g'.

> I tried printf'ing f and g at point A, but they both show up as equal...
> I'm really confused. I don't really understand what the union does.

It does what you told it, which is "Do something undefined."
Or, in other words, "Anything at all that you do is fine with me."

--
Eric Sosman
esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid

== 13 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 5:54 am
From: mohangupta13

On Nov 28, 2:40 pm, amit <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> This is a homework question so please don't give full answer, but I
> really need a hint, I have no idea where to start...
>
> Recall that in C, int and float are both 4 byte types. Consider the
> following code.
>
> main()
> {
>   float f, g;
>   union { float f; int i; } u;
>   srand48(time(0));
>   f = drand48();
>   u.f = f;
>   u.i++;
>   g = u.f;
>   // ===== POINT A ===== //
>
> }
>
> At point A, will g be greater than f? Will it always be the next
> representable floating point value after f? Can you explain your answers?
>
> I tried printf'ing f and g at point A, but they both show up as equal...
> I'm really confused. I don't really understand what the union does.
>
> Thanks for any help!

as i saw your question i did some googling and fell upon this page .

http://www.cygnus-software.com/papers/comparingfloats/comparingfloats.htm

this must answer your question . I just read this it looks great but
reading the other comments in this thread makes me skeptical about its
validity in C .

With reference to the same link can anyone please tell me what
actually aliasing optimization means .
thanks Mohan

== 14 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 6:01 am
From: mohangupta13

On Nov 28, 2:40 pm, amit <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> This is a homework question so please don't give full answer, but I
> really need a hint, I have no idea where to start...
>
> Recall that in C, int and float are both 4 byte types. Consider the
> following code.
>
> main()
> {
>   float f, g;
>   union { float f; int i; } u;
>   srand48(time(0));
>   f = drand48();
>   u.f = f;
>   u.i++;
>   g = u.f;
>   // ===== POINT A ===== //
>
> }
>
> At point A, will g be greater than f? Will it always be the next
> representable floating point value after f? Can you explain your answers?
>
> I tried printf'ing f and g at point A, but they both show up as equal...
> I'm really confused. I don't really understand what the union does.
>
> Thanks for any help!

as i saw your question i did some googling and fell upon this page .

http://www.cygnus-software.com/papers/comparingfloats/comparingfloats.htm

this must answer your question . I just read this it looks great but
reading the other comments in this thread makes me skeptical about its
validity in C .

With reference to the same link can anyone please tell me what
actually aliasing optimization means .
thanks Mohan

== 15 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 6:15 am
From: gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)

In article <her96s$h8a$1@news.eternal-september.org>,
Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> did the usual CLC dance,
thusly:
>amit wrote:
>> This is a homework question so please don't give full answer, but I
>> really need a hint, I have no idea where to start...
>>
>> Recall that in C, int and float are both 4 byte types.
>
> Maybe. Every `float' I happen to have seen had four bytes,
>but I've encountered both two- and four-byte `int'. Other sizes
>are possible, and not even the four-byte `float' is guaranteed.

etc, etc

I just love this. The OP asks a simple, meaningful question, and all he
ever gets back is "int main(void)", "missing include files", and "that
won't work on the DS9K".

Show of hands now. Who here honestly thinks that this (or any other) OP
is going to read Eric's shit response and say "Wow. I am so enlightened." ?

Notes/comments:
1) The basic idea is: They aren't supposed to like it. We are doing
it for their own good.

Needless to say, I find this childish in the extreme.

2) All the OP is ever going to take away from a post like this (like
Eric's) is: Gee, he must have read (and responded to) some other
article. His post has nothing to do with any issues raised by
me. Maybe there is a problem with his newsreader.

== 16 of 16 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 6:21 am
From: "bartc"

"Eric Sosman" <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> wrote in message
news:her96s$h8a$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> amit wrote:

>> Recall that in C, int and float are both 4 byte types.
> Maybe. Every `float' I happen to have seen had four bytes,
> Missing some #include directives here, I think.

> No declarations for time(), srand48(), or drand48(). The
>
> You get undefined behavior here for calling the time()

>> u.f = f;
>> u.i++;
>
> Undefined behavior. In a union, only the element most

> The program is not even guaranteed to *get* to point A.

>> I tried printf'ing f and g at point A, but they both show up as equal...
>> I'm really confused. I don't really understand what the union does.
>
> It does what you told it, which is "Do something undefined."
> Or, in other words, "Anything at all that you do is fine with me."

It sounds like the class is investigating how floating point works on their
machines, which presumably they already know have 32-bit floats and ints.

And they're using C as one way of doing that.

They're probably not (at the minute anyway), looking at writing C code that
will work portably on every conceivable class of hardware in the world. And
this task is necessarily specific to their machine anyway.

(I've tried a similar program on my machine, which also has 32-bit floats
and ints, and I've found a couple of interesting things. I wouldn't have
found out those things by religiously following everything in C standard.
Sometimes you either have to learn to read between the lines, or throw the
thing out the window.)

--
Bartc

==============================================================================
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== 1 of 1 ==
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: What does it mean ; You are a Muslim??
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/3001c7dccd5989c1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 4:32 am
From: Mary

What does it mean ; You are a Muslim??
By Suleiman Saoud Al Saqer

All braise and thanks to "Allah" , the Lord of the whole being .

As you know, the matter of coming to this world is arbitrary . Nobody
has come to this worldly life by his choice and nobody departs by his
choice as well…

Now, from where did the person come and where does he go when he
departs ?? and what happens to him ?? is he remains alive but in
another form of life (only spiritual?) or he perishes completely ??.

Other questions about the environment he lives in.. for example the
unity of the life system and conditions, without which man will never
remain alive even for a few minutes, such as oxygen, moderate gravity,
food , and other convenience means , which are really uncountable ?? .

Everyone must search for answers to these questions, but he also must
be very careful that many answers are given from the old times to our
present day …

Uncountable answers, uncountable beliefs, uncountable religions ….
Some are funny, some are dangerous….

Nearly everything humble, everything solid, everything useless have
been worshipped by this clever man !! Things like cows, stones,
planets, mousse, man himself… and even anthills have been worshipped
by this clever man …. !!

But such people follow just self desires and guesses but desires and
guesses which doesn't have any relation to truth …!! These are just
names named by this people or their fathers !!. Some men worship
figures which they have made. Some others worship animals which they
must feed…!!.

Nobody argue that our generation with all of it's advanced scientific
achievements has never done anything with exploring ****physical facts
…
That it's impossible …..
Only in the Quraan and Hadieth we can reach such facts…
For the crucial matters I have above said, man must seriously search
for the truth. For that crucial importance of the questions above
mentioned he must find the truth….

This truth must be the truth indeed .. , not just by guessing . There
must be a definite proof and absolute evidence that it is the truth ,
otherwise it will increase it's holders nothing but more and more
losing .

That's the matter is extremely significant for you, it is your eternal
self- determination, it is your eternal life ; before and after death.
I can't find the words to express how significant to find the truth in
this con****. It has the same value for you as yourself.

Please be aware, and confident that the definite proof and the
absolute evidence on the truth is the book which was revealed from
Allah Subahnahu Wa Taa'la to his messenger Muhammed Sala Allahu Allyhi
Wasallam . It's the holly Quraan..

This Quraan includes answers to everything ; where man has come from ,
where is he going to, why is he sent to this earthy life, what is he
instructed to do, and everything… .

The Quraan is the eternal witness and absolute proof that Muhammad
Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam is really the messenger sent by the Lord
Allah , Who is the only Lord, and Creator of this whole being ,
physical and ****physical . …

The aspects of miracle of the Quraan are numerous. It is the miracle,
that nobody could match , and no one could alter since more than
fourteen centuries, that in spite of the too many enemies from inside
and outside. Although they had and have every kind of power and every
form of wealth, but they couldn't alter the Quraan or match it.
Moreover many invaders had turned into Islam and became defenders of
the Quraan after they had come to eliminate it completely .

Another form of miraculous nature of the Quraan is the rhetorical ….

The generation in which prophet Muhammed Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam
was sent was the most knowledgeable in the arts of Arabic. The
original Arabic language (classical) was their same everyday spoken
language. They were experts in Arabic art's of poetry, prose, speech
or else, and they were very fund of these arts. Poets and other
literature men had a very special position in that society.

The linguistic patterns of grammar of Arabic until our present day are
put after the expressions of people prevailed at that time. The
prophet Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam was not known of working in any
literal art at all. With this fact certify enemies before followers.
They all also certify that he Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam was
illiterate, didn't read and didn't write. In addition, he was
certified by all, even by those who fought him, that he was truthful,
sincere trust and very honest, so he was called "The truthful
trustworthy".

That's excluded any possibility that he made the Quraan by himself and
he never could do that. if he could why they couldn't ?? . A lot of
skillful proficient of linguists in addition of all kinds of power and
wealth known at that time and each time were thrown as very cheap in
the con**** of matching the Quraan or altering it !!.
Although it was (is) made of words of their language !!.

Some people said (says) that the prophet Muhammed Sala Allahu Allyhi
Wasallam had taken it from the Jews and Nassara , but he was
illiterate , so how to read their books ? and there was no connection
with them ?? except a very small stop..

Moreover, they initiated aggression against him with all of their
power, specially Jews, therefore he Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam fought
and defeated them and confiscated every thing from them. Of course at
the orders of the Lord, Subahnahu Wa Taa'la, Because the prophet Sala
Allahu Allyhi Wasallam never had done any such thing unless with
orders of the Lord. (I say) in short , if he had acquired the Quraan
from them why they couldn't match it. That if they (and others). Had
done that, his powers will vanish, and the men around him should had
separated ….

He Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam kept calling on them to bring like only
ten Surahs of it, than the amount of the challenge decreased to one
Surah of the Quraan, he Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam kept challenging
them to do that but they couldn't.

If they had matched even one of those Surahs which don't exceed one
line in length, they would had done the task. Allah Subahnahu Wa
Taa'la , says in his verses of the Quraan, what the translation of
it's meaning perhaps would be as :

(Or do they say: He has 'made' it, say: "bring then a Surah like it,
and call upon whomsoever you can call, from under Allah, if you are
truthful) Surat Younis-Verse 38.

The ultimatum proof that they couldn't match the Quraan even at the
length of one line, that they were in the case of dire need and
extreme necessity to bring like the Quraan. As they started hostility,
and killing Muslims and confiscating their property, the prophet Sala
Allahu Allyhi Wasallam at the orders of his Lord "Allah" Subahnahu Wa
Taa'la fought them and always had been supported with the Lord and was
granted a smashing victory over the enemies, where the enemy's men
were killed or captured, their women and sons were taken and their
wealth was confiscated. In addition to that their ways of thinking,
religions with beliefs and the styles of life in general were to
despised and condemned and made null. Moreover, their simplemindedness
and foolishness was disclosed …
There would be no necessity extremer than this and no need more urgent
than that. They would had been relieved of all of this destruction, if
they had present just one line of their language like the Quraan!! but
they failed ...

Any endeavor of that kind, was judged by themselves as false and
became the subject of mockery and a joke ..!!.

Moreover, the Quraan was revealed in ten readings , that means there
was nearly a reading of the Quraan in the prevailing Arabic of every
direction of Arabia, but they all failed to bring that amount in their
everyday language…

So all generations along fourteen centuries had never been able to
that and the Non Arabic speakers are more and more disabled to do that
………..

The reason is that the Quraan is the words of Allah Subahnahu Wa
Taa'la who is the Lord of the whole being, who exists eternally.
Don't say the miraculous nature of Quraan is a magic..
It never be magic because;

• The disbelievers are much more competent for employing all kinds of
magicians. As for they wealth and influence. What is the magic they
couldn't and can't now match…??.

• Magic doesn't last for long, it soon vanish, in addition to it
doesn't have an actual existence , and the miraculous feature of Koran
has remained as it is since more than fourteen centuries.

• In addition to that, and this even more important point that the
makers of magic are the Satins who are a sub class of jinn, and the
challenge to bring like the Quraan is directed to Human and jinn. The
Lord "Allah" Subahnahu Wa Taa'la says in a verse of the Quraan, what
the translation of it's meaning would be as :
(Say: If the mankind and the jinn were to convene for the purpose of
making the alike of this Quraa'n, they will never do the alike
thereof, even if they were supported by each other .(Surat Al Isra.
Verse 88.

So the jinn along with their evilest class (Satans) are included in
the challenge . Those Satans of jinn are the makers of magic with
collaboration and whispering to their agents of the human Satans, who
are the magicians. The aim of those two parties, is to deviate people
from their Lord's path.

So if they could stand the challenge, they surely will hasten with
announcing that for their said aim.

Other form of miracle of the Quraan, is that it tells of everything
happened since the heavens and earth were created up to the day of
judgment. How man was created and why ?? What other alive creates are
there ?? mankind, angels and jinn !!. What happened to the previous
messengers and their peoples … So if you want the truth of physical
and ****physical, and all events , you can read Allah's book ; "the
Quraan" and its authorized explanation of the prophet's Hadieth, and
Companions' sayings which is carried by the honest scholars along
generations . As far as I know, there translations in the main
languages of these explanations. If you have determination and honest
resolution to come advanced to your Lord , you can learn Arabic . and
then drink from the original fountain … Read the Quraan , it's
explanations and Sunnah fresh in it's original form ……
If you want the necessary amount of Arabic for worshipping you Lord,
with determination, it doesn't take one week to learn the necessary
amount of prayers and other extolment of Allah .

Another form of miracle of the Quraan is the non weariness from
repeating it for a lot of times. Although the subjects and events
mentioned in the Quraan are in most cases repeated, may be for more
than 30 times in some cases, but for it's lovers never invoke
weariness as in the same cases. There have been mentioned that some
scholars and worshippers may be recite the Quraan twice a day
particularly in the fasting month of Ramadan without being bored !!.
This never happen for anything else . Too many people recite it , say
once each two months along their lives . Is not that upnormal ?? .
This particularity is mentioned in the Quraan , the translation of the
verse's meaning speaking about this matter would be like this :
(Allah has revealed the most beautiful speech , a Book, its parts
alike, repeated . The skins of those who fear their Lord tremble from
it (when they recite or hear it). Then their skins and hearts soften
to the remembrance of Allah. …..) Surat AL Zumar Verse 23.

Perhaps someone would say, those Quraan lovers don't read it in the
same session at many cases (by guessing ), if so, that means they
would had (have) cut their reciting because of boredom. !!. (I say ) ;
That's a healthy sign, that they feel like any person feels of
boredom, but they soon long for it, and restart reciting again. That's
never happen with anything else……..

There is another aspect of miracle, what is now called "The scientific
miraculous nature of Quraan" which I can define in short as : Facts
mentioned in the Quraan and have been now proved materially by the
technological facilities of this modern age". Like the roundness of
the earth, for example. There are certain books now have been composed
for researches about this matter…..

There is another aspect of miracle in the precious Quraan, that is the
achievement of promises, but in certainty, like the verse of Surat Al
Rum, which it's meaning translation would be like ;
(Alief Lam Miem =(The Arabic sounds A L M) * The Rum are defeated*in
the nearest of land, and after the defeat of theirs, they will defeat
(their enemy) in some years) Surat Al Rum Verses 1-4.

Another promise which is for Islam to prevail, and for the Muslims to
defeat all enemies (as long as they apply their religion, so that what
happened at the life of the prophet Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam who
had never been defeated. So was the matter at the stage of the well-
guided caliphs…

With aid of Allah, the Muslim nation, which it's essence element was
the Arabs, turned just within only about thirty years from a scattered
conflicted tribes into the greatest and strongest nation in the world
for long centuries, and it's language and culture never vanish until
the day of judgment because they are preserved by the preservation of
the Quraan.

These are only examples for many cases in the Quraan. ( I resolved
this article to be a short one, but for any illustration about any
point , please write to me ).

Don't say it's like fortune telling …. It's completely on the
contrary. For the Quraan is the right which it's promises had come
true identical, there never even one promise which didn't come
identical, but fortune tellers many times say things which doesn't
come true, if in few cases come true, it will be mixed with too many
lies ….
That in addition to the characteristics of magic mentioned above,
because fortune telling is a sub branch of magic.

I consider the matter is enough for such a short article like this,
that for any evenhanded searching person for the truth is convinced
that; the Quraan, which is words from the Arabic language could not be
matched even by the amount of one line of it, along more than fourteen
centuries, in spite of the too many, very strong , very wealthy
enemies ..

Therefore, be faithful that the Quraan is revealed from the Lord of
the whole being, Allah Subahnahu Wa Taa'la, and Islam is the only
right religion, which if you embrace and adhere to , you will obtain
the happiness in the hereafter life, and gain supporting from the Lord
in this wordily life what your position is .

What is the genuine representative faction of Islam

Perhaps you will ask about the faction of those now pretend Islam, is
the genuine representative of Islam ??
(I say) with dogmatic final proof from the Quraan and Sunnah that this
faction is the prophet Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam, his companions,
and to the followers of them up to the end of this life.

Our Lord Allah, Subahnahu Wa Taa'la, says in several verses, that we
must follow the prophet Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam. One of these
verse, it's meaning translation would be like :

(Say if you do love Allah, so follow me Allah will love you and
forgive you your sins, for Allah is most forgiving most merciful* Say,
Obey Allah and the messenger, but if they turn back (as refusing),
Allah love not the infidels). Surt Al Imran- Verses : 31-32

Further, the Lord has ordered us, in several verses of his book, to
follow the path of the companions in understanding the righteous path
of what is meant by the verses of the Quraan and the prophet's
Hadieth. They are the best generation of this nation , they were
faithful, sincere and lived with the prophet Sala Allahu Allyhi
Wasallam and knew every meaning from him directly…..

Islam differs from other religions in this aspect, that there are now
really too many factions pretending Islam (They will reach, or have
reached seventy three factions at the end as the prophet Sala Allahu
Allyhi Wasallam informed) but there is the real genuine one which is
corresponding to the prophet's miracle ; The Quraan , which includes
verses impels on us to follow the prophet Sala Allahu Allyhi
Wasallam , and the companions' understanding as well.

The other religions; in particular the Jews and Nassara , have also
too many factions, but non of them has a proof that it represents the
original which was nothing but Islam in it's wider meaning as stated
in the verses of the Quraan. Thus we can be surely confident that the
contemporary forms of Judaism and Nassara are null and void (Since
prophet Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam was sent) by two primary proofs ;
• They contradict with the miracle of the Quraan, which contains
verses that, except Islam, the religion which Muhammed Sala Allahu
Allyhi Wasallam was sent with, all other religions and believes are
false and null, and their followers will be in hellfire. Allah
Subahnahu Wa Taa'la, says in his verses, what the translation of the
meaning thereof, would be as :
(And anybody desires a religion other than Islam, it will never be
accepted from him, and in the hereafter he will be among those who
have lost ) Surat Al-Imran –Verse 85.
• Non of their factions is supported of real proof , that's in short.

Time changing

Perhaps, some people say, life has changed, so our life is different
from that fourteen years ago ??.

The answer is that Islam leaves the door opened for material changes,
all life requirements' facilities are initially permissible. By the
evidence from the Quraan and Sunnah (Hadieth), everything related to
material is left for mankind to utilize. Allah says what it's meaning
would be;

(And (Allah) has subjected to you all that is in the heavens and all
that is in the earth; it is all as a favour from Him. Verily, in it
are signs for people who contemplate) Surat Al Jathiah verse .(13)

Each thing related to the usual life facilities is permissible in
Islam unless specified as prohibited (indicated as Haram) by a
specified proof.

The stable unchangeable are the worshipping acts like prayers,
fasting, Zakat and pilgrimage….

The ever prohibited (Haram ) are actions like
stealing, lying, being drunk …….etc. All these actions are not
influenced by time changes .

Remember that everything permitted or prohibited in genuine Islam, is
the ruling of your Lord , your Creator, to whom you are going back
inevitably . That's Allah , The Omniscient, The Most Merciful. …
They aren't managed by humans ……

Allah is the only characterized with absolute perfection

Allah Subahnahu Wa Taa'la, urged us to contemplate in the things
around us, to look to the sun , moon , stars, planets and their
movement of going around each other in an accurate orbits ….

He Subahnahu Wa Taa'la, urged us To contemplate in ourselves , of our
bodily elaborateness, in our social relations with each other, and how
we are distinguished from other creatures…
To the blowing of winds, carrying the grace of Allah , in the form of
water on which plants grow, from which we eat…
And to complete in the creation of animals which we use for food and
for translation ………

Look how perfect is that things around us ??
The Creator "Allah" is much and much perfect …, We can never imagine
how the lord is, but by contemplation in his creatures, every
evenhanded concludes that He is absolutely perfect…
Some people , the arrogance devastates them , to such a degree they
feel proud on the orders of their Creator !!

Those, their ideal pattern is the Satan himself, whom the arrogance
and envy in himself made him reject the orders of his Creator , his
Lord "Allah ".

Why man is created ?

From the miracle of the Quraan we find answers to all we think about.
Thus we must believe that the reason beyond our creation is to worship
Allah Subahnahu Wa Taa'la to thank him. Who, at same time, doesn't
need our worshipping at all. Moreover he is completely able to discard
us away as nothing, and bring instead anew creatures for the purpose
he has liked….

Reward and Punishment

Allah, Subahnahu Wa Taa'la nearly in each page of his book, "the
Quraan", reminds us with verses that, people will be inevitably put
into two directions : rewarded or punished . Each person according to
his acts in this wordily life, and his response to the message He has
sent .

If, the person obeys the Lord, be faithful ; believing in what the
prophet Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam (which as I said , by absolute
proof and ultimatum evidence , deserves nothing but believing and
acting the good, as the Lord has ordered in his verses or by the
Hadieth of his messenger), he will be than settled in the Paradise (Al
Jannah), where from underneath them, rivers are streaming. Seating on
settees facing each other. For men there will be maidens whose beauty
is very great. In a verse which the translation of it's meaning would
be as:

(In them will be (maidens) chaste, restraining their glances (on their
masters) whom no man or Jinn before them has touched.) Surat Al
Rahman- Verse 56.

They will meet with those maidens in pearl tents .. in addition to
their palaces ….

The virtuous Muslim women whose actions are good will be as master
ladies. Believers ; men and women will enjoy a happiness that no human
has ever thought of .

And all are in ranks according to their acts in this wordily life …..

They will be there eternally, for ever. There will be no death, and
they will never be removed from there.

The verses and Hadieths telling us about comfort and happiness of
living in Al-Janneh (Paradise) are many.

Although, the happy life of the believers is something can't be
imagined but the most elite of it is the looking at the Lord Subahnahu
Wa Taa'la . That the believers will look at "Allah" Tabarak Wa Taa'ala
the Lord and Creator of this whole being.
The lord says about that promise, what it's meaning's translation
would be "
(Faces at that day are flourishing, at their Lord looking) Surat Al
Qiyamah- Verse 16.
The prophet Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam informed us in a long true
Hadieth that we shall look at our Lord, with Allah willing, as we look
at the moon as full where no clouds are below it.

At the contrary of that, those who disbelieve will be punished, with
hellfire.. They will not be let to go out of the hell , and will be
living their eternally because no death is there ..They desire death
(by the meaning of perishing, but will never be let dying ).

Those whom their arrogance, selfishness or wordily desires motivate
them to disbelieve and rejects Allah's will ,will be punished with
that permanent torture …

The massage which Allah has sent Muhammed Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam
with, the same as the previous prophets –peace be upon them- were sent
with , is clear and stable and understood that it's the Word of Allah,
the Lord and Creator of this universe Tabarak Wa Taa'ala, and those
disbelievers, are disbelieving for nothing but for arrogance ,
selfishness or wordily desires only ….
Thus they deserve the hellfire eternally, not dying. The Lord informed
us about their torture in many verses.

He says in a verse of this con****, which the meaning translation
thereof would be as :

(Those who disbelieve in our (my) verses, We(I) shall strike them with
fire, each time their skins are well done, We(I) shall replace those
skins with new ones that they may taste the penalty for Allah is
exalted in power and wise) Surat Al Nisa – Verse : 56.

Nobody excluded

Everybody is charged with Islam , and is responsible for following the
right represented by Islam..
Whatever is his (her) homeland, race , color, rank , or language … he
will be questioned about his attitude toward his Lord's instruction….
Whatever is his cultural position, rich or poor, he (she) will be
questioned about Allah's instructions and therefore will be sent to
Paradise or Hellfire….

Nobody excluded, save two conditions are provided : He (she)is adult
and having normal mind….

Allah Tabarak Wa Taa'ala says in a verse of this con**** , which the
meaning translation thereof would be as :

(We have not sent you but to all people, giving them glad tidings and
warning them (against Hellfire) but most people know not ) Surat Saba'
–Verse : 28.

Also the prophet Sala Allahu Allyhi Wasallam, said : (I have been sent
to the red and black). A true Hadieth.

The verses and Hadieths prescribe that the prophet: Muhammed Sala
Allahu Allyhi Wasallam is sent to all kinds of people and Jinn are
several. No doubt about that..

So don't waste your time , save yourself before time is over. That if
the person dies , which is very near from any of use, his chance will
be over and therefore he will be among losers.

So hurry up and enter in Islam, be a Moslem… It is none but the desire
of your Lord, your Creator "Allah" Tabarak Wa Taa'ala . Nobody is
waiting from you any benefit at all, you will do good for yourself. I
myself write this call to benefit myself , because Allah Tabarak Wa
Taa'ala loves that who guides others to the truth , to the path he
ruled for them from above the heavens.
Say (La ilaha illa Allah; Muhammadur-rasul Allah.) which mean : 'There
is no god but Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.' And pray the
5 prayers of the day and night (in the 24 hours) .. This is a quick
action for converting the righteous path : Islam.

So what does it mean ; You are a Muslim??
Being a Muslim, with a real honest intention means; you are on the
righteous way assigned by your Creator, by your Lord; Allah Tabarak Wa
Taa'ala, and you will be awarded settling in the Paradise, in
happiness that never a heart would have thought of.

For any enquiries or help, please don't hesitate to contact me:

Written by

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Linked List
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/9487f40e5e1f0a1e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 4:33 am
From: Phil Carmody

root <root@localhost.localdomain> writes:
> Richard
>
> I would guess that Ben was compiling your code with a C++ compiler and so
> got an error - lots of people do this (especially using g++ instead of
> gcc).
>
> That's why it is very bad practise to in clude C++ syntax errors in your
> C code.

Bollocks. Every use of a C++ syntax error in posted C code is
a high pass filter that can be used to filter out dull readers.

Phil
--
Any true emperor never needs to wear clothes. -- Devany on r.a.s.f1

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ISO C standard - which features need to be removed?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/441253f1401e8f94?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 5:18 am
From: Marco

On a previous thread many folks lamented about the C99 standard not
being fully implemented and still referencing the C95 version. Maybe
the ISO needs to reconsider some of the C99 features that are not
being universally implemented in C compilers and make them an optional
feature or deprecate them. The C99 standard has a lot of good changes
like defining portable fixed width integers <stdint.h> but these tend
to be overshadowed by the un-implemented features.

Any suggestions?

[ example snippet from other thread

>
> > »This second edition cancels and replaces the first
> > edition, ISO/IEC 9899:1990, as amended and corrected by
> > ISO/IEC 9899/COR1:1994, ISO/IEC 9899/AMD1:1995, and
> > ISO/IEC 9899/COR2:1996.«
>
> > ISO/IEC 9899:1999 (E)
>
> > This means that C is the language specified by ISO/IEC
> > 9899:1999 (E). »ISO/IEC 9899:1990« is canceled.
>
> In theory, yes. In practice, conforming C90 compilers are still
> much more common than conforming C99 compilers. Many compilers
> implement large parts of C99, but others, still in common use,
> implement almost none of it (more precisely, almost none of the
> differences between C90 and C99).
>
> --
> Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks...@mib.org
end snippet]

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A question about i++ in a for loop.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/d7fb4c2106d775ed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Nov 28 2009 7:01 am
From: Andrew Smallshaw

On 2009-11-28, Kaz Kylheku <kkylheku@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 2009-11-28, Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The question is about the following C code...
>>
>> for (i = 0; i < 5; i++) {
>> if (i == 3)
>> break;
>> printf("The value of i inside the loop is is: %d\n", i);
>> }
>
> The for statement does not evaluate its constituents in the order in which they
> are written. Given this template:
>
> for (E1; E2; E3)
> S

> See? The written order is E1 E2 E3 S, but the evaluation order is E1 E2 S E3
>
> So your i++ increment is performed after the print.

I think the while loop equivalence often makes things clearer.

for (initialisation; condition; increment)
body;

can usually be re-expressed as:

initialisation;
while (condition) {
body;
increment;
}

The only exception is if the body executes a continue statement.
In that case the for loop abandons execution of the body whereas
the while loop version abandons execution of both the body and the
increment for that iteration of the loop.

--
Andrew Smallshaw
andrews@sdf.lonestar.org

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