[Rails] Re: Web 2.0 Javascript Standardization Topic

Alpha Blue wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> I've been involved with some pretty heated debates on this topic with
> some friends and associates but I would like to hear from some of the
> rails community concerning some of the Web 2.0 standards in place.
>

Web 2.0 is not a standard. It's a nebulous term that has no real
meaning, and it should probably banished from your vocabulary.

> The big debate for my friends and me revolves around the development of
> javascript in websites.
>
> Here's a good example.
>
> Javascript is meant to enhance a website and when used properly, it
> makes a website function better. This adds to the user experience.
>
> If, for instance, I wanted to create a page administration system that
> uses in place editing, those administrators who did not have javascript
> enabled would be unable to edit the pages on the fly, as designed. The
> virtual creation of pages speeds up delivery time of producing content
> and makes life easier for creating virtual pages, but without javascript
> enabled, the admin would not be able to access those links. In order
> for him to do so, I would have to create a separate way of
> administrating that page.
>
> Designing around users that have javascript disabled is the same as
> designing two completely separate websites.

Wrong. Go look up progressive enhancement.

> I believe this to be a
> waste of time.

And in most cases, you are wrong. Part of the philosophy of the Web
from the beginning has been graceful degradation -- you should see
*something* useful no matter what browser you're using. Believe it or
not, in almost 2010, there are still browsers that don't handle
JavaScript well. They exist and should be accommodated.

And the way to do that is with progressive enhancement in most cases.
To be sure, in some cases it isn't possible, and you may need to create
a separate lo-fi site or give up altogether, but if you've designed your
site properly in the first place, those cases are quite rare indeed.

> Web 2.0 standards

No such thing.

> that have been bolstered by Yahoo and
> Google require javascript functionality to work. In the past, I have
> always designed around these issues but I'm leaning towards a more web
> 2.0 compliant site.

No such thing. Web 2.0 isn't a standard! There is nothing to comply
with!

Good standards-based Web design virtually requires considering users
without JavaScript.
>
> So, my question is this:
>
> Do you feel that web developers should design around users that have
> javascript disabled,

Yes!

> or do you feel they should place some type of logo
> on their site that depicts the site as being web 2.0 compliant.
>

No way! "Web 2.0" is a pretty bad term since it's nearly meaningless,
and there's no Web 2.0 standard to be compliant with, but one of the
things "Web 2.0" should not mean is "fuck off if you don't have
JavaScript". There's really no excuse for that attitude.

> I would just like to hear some thoughts on this topic.

You just heard mine. :)

Best,
--
Marnen Laibow-Koser
http://www.marnen.org
marnen@marnen.org
--
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Ruby on Rails: Talk" group.
To post to this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rubyonrails-talk+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk?hl=en.