rec.crafts.metalworking - 24 new messages in 11 topics - digest

rec.crafts.metalworking
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Today's topics:

* Lie of the Year - 9 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/631768a4d3953f6e?hl=en
* "Cash for Cloture" under scrutiny! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/a9478ad3805a80b2?hl=en
* masonry drill warning - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/a3b12118d1ca9054?hl=en
* Blind Car Drivers? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0f3307bd07f9b90b?hl=en
* No proof - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5880b60d21c72504?hl=en
* 2010 - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/229a6074efc578a7?hl=en
* 45 ACP ammo - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3bb9af572b42249c?hl=en
* Machining a square section O ring groove - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3c3b9cde60aa6bce?hl=en
* Republican Deficit Hypocrisy - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/bc89282d844d795e?hl=en
* chainsaw chain - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5c59802efa9cc01d?hl=en
* Top 10 stories of 2009 - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/adc55113ed40fb4f?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lie of the Year
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/631768a4d3953f6e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 8:50 am
From: tankfixer

In article <okkej515fg60bmm5bvklkkt34feett6iih@4ax.com>,
Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>
> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 10:06:25 -0500, "Joe Irvin" <ji3486@sccoast.net> wrote:
>
> >>>Countries
> >>>that have govt run universal care insure everyones healthcare
> >>
> >> For perhaps 1/3 the cost of what it is in the US.
> >
> >They may be able to run things at 1/3 the cost, but they don't deliver good
> >timely health care.
>
>
> >Giving everyone health care insurance is easy ... its
> >providing good timely healthcare that becomes the problem. "While
> >recognizing that many Canadians believe that we have one of the best health
> >care systems in the world, the founders of Timely Medical Alternatives Inc.
> >also recognize that there are some 875,000 Canadians currently on the
> >waiting list for referrals to specialists or for medical procedures."
> >http://www.timelymedical.ca/
>
> "Oops! This link appears to be broken."
>
Opps, your a lyin whore..

It works just fine

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 9:41 am
From: "RD (The Sandman)"

Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
news:j5mej5dmkb1fs4ivp2bv48dcvunaedkko4@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:05:24 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
> <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>>news:g4acj59duv909foitbhnm01p9cmib9si3h@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 12:02:36 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
>>> <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>>>>news:q728j554k36mo16hacmn05vkcbrttngkbj@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:56:44 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
>>>>> <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> And the Republican alternatives are........?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>IOW, you have no problem with fraud and payoffs as long as it is
>>>>>>Democrats doing it?
>>>>>
>>>>> IOW none.
>>>>
>>>>In your case there was no doubt about that answer.....but I was
>>>>willing to give Holman a chance to answer on his own.
>>>
>>> You have shown no related fraud or payoffs.
>>
>>I have not claimed that there was.
>
> So when you claimed "you have no problem with fraud and payoffs
> as long as it is Democrats doing it?" you were lying?

Nope, you simply failed to read for comprehension. You were in such a
big a hurry to knee jerk your response.

>>You would understand that if you had
>>left that portion of the thread intact. You snipped part of it.
>
> And called you on what I quoted.

Out of context.....

>>The following was part of the thread and was directly in front of "And
>>the Republican alternatives are.......?
>
> You say fraud?

Learn to read in context and with comprehension and I may converse with
you.

>>>>>> The bills currently under consideration are so fraught with fraud
>>> and payoffs as to be useless..
>>
>>It was posted by tankfixer if you had gone back and followed the
>>attributes before opening your mouth and inserting foot. Holman then
>>responded with "And the Republican alternatives are........?"
>
> Yet here you are.
>
>>
>>Then I responded........ See, learn to read, mon ami, before
>>embarrasing yourself.
>>
>
> Wingers ....

Thanks for proving my point.

--
Sleep well tonight,

RD (The Sandman)

Let's see if I have this healthcare thingy right. Congress is to pass
a plan written by a committee whose head has said he doesn't understand
it, passed by a Congress that hasn't read it, signed by a president who
hasn't read it, with funding administered by a Treasury chief who didn't
pay his taxes because he didn't understand TurboTax, overseen by an obese
Surgeon General and financed by a country that's nearly broke.
What could possibly go wrong?

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:10 am
From: Winston_Smith

Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:50:49 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net> wrote:
>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>>On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:02:50 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net> wrote:
>>>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977953779
>>>>> "Sarah Palin Tells 'Lie of the Year'; Glenn Beck Takes Second"
>>>>>
>>>>>Pulitzer Prize-winning political fact-checking project PolitiFact has announced
>>>>>their first-ever Lie of the Year: Death panels
>>>>
>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/23/health/23ucla.html
>>>>"If you come into this hospital, we're not going to let you die," said
>>>>Dr. David T. Feinberg, the hospital system's chief executive.
>>>>
>>>>Yet that ethos has made the medical center a prime target for critics
>>>>in the Obama administration
>>>
>>> I have no idea
>>
>>THAT I can accept as the truth.
>
> How did saving the old guy's life at fairly low cost rather
>than putting him on a wating list for a *possible* heart transplant
>become something to blame Obama for?

Simply whether or not 0bama's death panels (under another name of
course since they don't exist) get to say what procedures are allowed
and which are denied with a heart felt "Tough luck, Charlie. Here's a
pamphlet on dying".

> Logical minds want to know.

No one has ever accused you of having a logical mind.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:15 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Winston_Smith" <not_real@bogus.net> wrote in message
news:cj8fj5535l3gp23jit0g6nlh77m73gab7j@4ax.com...
> Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:50:49 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net>
>>wrote:
>>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>>>On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:02:50 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977953779
>>>>>> "Sarah Palin Tells 'Lie of the Year'; Glenn Beck Takes Second"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Pulitzer Prize-winning political fact-checking project PolitiFact has
>>>>>>announced
>>>>>>their first-ever Lie of the Year: Death panels
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/23/health/23ucla.html
>>>>>"If you come into this hospital, we're not going to let you die," said
>>>>>Dr. David T. Feinberg, the hospital system's chief executive.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yet that ethos has made the medical center a prime target for critics
>>>>>in the Obama administration
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea
>>>
>>>THAT I can accept as the truth.
>>
>> How did saving the old guy's life at fairly low cost rather
>>than putting him on a wating list for a *possible* heart transplant
>>become something to blame Obama for?
>
> Simply whether or not 0bama's death panels (under another name of
> course since they don't exist) get to say what procedures are allowed
> and which are denied with a heart felt "Tough luck, Charlie. Here's a
> pamphlet on dying".

This is a myth. Show us where you get the wacky idea that the bill creates
panels that "allow" or "disallow" specific procedures.

>
>> Logical minds want to know.

There's no logic to it. It's just a lot of crap.

>
> No one has ever accused you of having a logical mind.

Let's see the premise on which you base this "logic."

--
Ed Huntress

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:21 am
From: "Joe Irvin"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:okkej515fg60bmm5bvklkkt34feett6iih@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 10:06:25 -0500, "Joe Irvin" <ji3486@sccoast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>>>Countries
>>>>that have govt run universal care insure everyones healthcare
>>>
>>> For perhaps 1/3 the cost of what it is in the US.
>>
>>They may be able to run things at 1/3 the cost, but they don't deliver
>>good
>>timely health care.
>
>
>>Giving everyone health care insurance is easy ... its
>>providing good timely healthcare that becomes the problem. "While
>>recognizing that many Canadians believe that we have one of the best
>>health
>>care systems in the world, the founders of Timely Medical Alternatives
>>Inc.
>>also recognize that there are some 875,000 Canadians currently on the
>>waiting list for referrals to specialists or for medical procedures."
>>http://www.timelymedical.ca/
>
> "Oops! This link appears to be broken."
>
>>Read this web site
>
> http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-575-x/2003001/4151078-eng.htm
> [
> The median waiting times for specialized services was 4.0 weeks for
> specialist
> visits, 4.3 weeks for non-emergency surgery, and 3.0 weeks for diagnostic
> tests.

Did you read the date, 2003, but forget that. Why do you think they have
waiting lines in Canada for health care. Its easy to insure everyone ... it
the actual delivery of health care that is the hard part ... "Overall, most
individuals reported waiting 3 months or less for specialized services:
close to 90% for specialist visit and diagnostic tests and slightly over 80%
for non-emergency surgery." This from your own cite.

> ]
>
> Generally I have to wait at least a month if just changing my annual
> checkup
> visit. In the US.

Where do you live? I've never had to wait over a week for anything and
usually it was at my convience for scheduling an appointment.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
> "The CIA World Factbook ranked the United States 41st in the world for
> lowest
> infant mortality rate[102] and 46th for highest total life
> expectancy.[103] A
> recent study found that between 1997 and 2003, preventable deaths declined
> more
> slowly in the United States than in 18 other industrialized nations"

As for life expectancy: "When you hear this, ask if the people in those
countries didn't live longer before they nationalized their health care
systems. Ask how many people in those countries died on their highways, were
killed in combat, shot by criminals, addicted to drugs, were severely
overweight or in poor health when they arrived as illegal immigrants."
http://www.afcm.org/fallacies.html

As for infant mortality not all nations measure infant mortality the same.
The US tries to save every infant that is born alive. "But infant mortality
tells us a lot less about a health care system than one might think. The
main problem is inconsistent measurement across nations. The United Nations
Statistics Division, which collects data on infant mortality, stipulates
that an infant, once it is removed from its mother and then "breathes or
shows any other evidence of life such as beating of the heart, pulsation of
the umbilical cord, or definite movement of voluntary muscles... is
considered live-born regardless of gestational age."16 While the U.S.
follows that definition, many other nations do not. Demographer Nicholas
Eberstadt notes that in Switzerland "an infant must be at least 30
centimeters long at birth to be counted as living."17 This excludes many
of the most vulnerable infants from Switzerland's infant mortality measure."
http://www.nationalcenter.org/NPA547ComparativeHealth.html

As you can see there are inconsistencies in how infant mortality is
measured.

> ....
> "A study of international health care spending levels published in the
> health
> policy journal Health Affairs in the year 2000 found that the U.S. spends
> substantially more on health care than any other country in the
> Organization for
> Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), and that the use of health
> care
> services in the U.S. is below the OECD median by most measures."

This may be true but health care is expensive. Lets see what the US gets
for it more expensive health care. "Americans have better survival rates
than Europeans for common cancers.[1] Breast cancer mortality is 52 percent
higher in Germany than in the United States, and 88 percent higher in the
United Kingdom. Prostate cancer mortality is 604 percent higher in the U.K.
and 457 percent higher in Norway. The mortality rate for colorectal cancer
among British men and women is about 40 percent higher. Americans have
lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.[2] Breast cancer mortality is
9 percent higher, prostate cancer is 184 percent higher and colon cancer
mortality among men is about 10 percent higher than in the United States
Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than
Canadians.[4] Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups
who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate and colon
cancer:
a.. Nine of 10 middle-aged American women (89 percent) have had a
mammogram, compared to less than three-fourths of Canadians (72 percent).
b.. Nearly all American women (96 percent) have had a pap smear, compared
to less than 90 percent of Canadians.
c.. More than half of American men (54 percent) have had a PSA test,
compared to less than 1 in 6 Canadians (16 percent).
d.. Nearly one-third of Americans (30 percent) have had a colonoscopy,
compared with less than 1 in 20 Canadians (5 percent).
Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the
U.K. Canadian and British patients wait about twice as long - sometimes
more than a year - to see a specialist, to have elective surgery like hip
replacements or to get radiation treatment for cancer.[6] All told, 827,429
people are waiting for some type of procedure in Canada.[7] In England,
nearly 1.8 million people are waiting for a hospital admission or outpatient
treatment.[8] Americans have much better access to important new
technologies like medical imaging than patients in Canada or the U.K.
Maligned as a waste by economists and policymakers naïve to actual medical
practice, an overwhelming majority of leading American physicians identified
computerized tomography (CT) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) as the
most important medical innovations for improving patient care during the
previous decade.[11] [See the table.] The United States has 34 CT scanners
per million Americans, compared to 12 in Canada and eight in Britain. The
United States has nearly 27 MRI machines per million compared to about 6 per
million in Canada and Britain.[12] Americans are responsible for the vast
majority of all health care innovations.[13] The top five U.S. hospitals
conduct more clinical trials than all the hospitals in any other single
developed country.[14] Since the mid-1970s, the Nobel Prize in medicine or
physiology has gone to American residents more often than recipients from
all other countries combined.[15] In only five of the past 34 years did a
scientist living in America not win or share in the prize. Most important
recent medical innovations were developed in the United States.[16]"
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649

> I've known lots of people in the US that have to wait too.

This may be true, but if you really want to wait pass universal healthcare.
See Canada and the UK for waiting.
> --
> Cliff

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:31 am
From: Winston_Smith

"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>"Winston_Smith" <not_real@bogus.net> wrote in message
>news:cj8fj5535l3gp23jit0g6nlh77m73gab7j@4ax.com...
>> Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>>On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:50:49 -0700, Winston_Smithwrote:
>>>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>>>>On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:02:50 -0700, Winston_Smith wrote:
>>>>>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977953779
>>>>>>> "Sarah Palin Tells 'Lie of the Year'; Glenn Beck Takes Second"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Pulitzer Prize-winning political fact-checking project PolitiFact has
>>>>>>>announced
>>>>>>>their first-ever Lie of the Year: Death panels
>>>>>>
>>>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/23/health/23ucla.html
>>>>>>"If you come into this hospital, we're not going to let you die," said
>>>>>>Dr. David T. Feinberg, the hospital system's chief executive.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yet that ethos has made the medical center a prime target for critics
>>>>>>in the Obama administration
>>>>>
>>>>> I have no idea
>>>>
>>>>THAT I can accept as the truth.
>>>
>>> How did saving the old guy's life at fairly low cost rather
>>>than putting him on a wating list for a *possible* heart transplant
>>>become something to blame Obama for?
>>
>> Simply whether or not 0bama's death panels (under another name of
>> course since they don't exist) get to say what procedures are allowed
>> and which are denied with a heart felt "Tough luck, Charlie. Here's a
>> pamphlet on dying".
>
>This is a myth. Show us where you get the wacky idea that the bill creates
>panels that "allow" or "disallow" specific procedures.

Where do you think the decision for Medicare to "allow" one procedure
and deny another comes from? I hope it's not made by politicians or
throwing darts.

No, the bill doesn't "create" them. They are have been in place for
decades.

I find it interesting that, just as this ball got rolling, a lot of
non-existent panels decided to reverse themselves on a lot of
procedures.

Government used to be - supposedly - the guardian of what insurance
companies can do to us. Now they have taken on the very same
interests that for-profit companies have of maximizing income and
minimizing expenses.

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:32 am
From: "Joe Irvin"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:lhlej5tv892k4cstfmm7lpsvv629maf6pa@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 10:06:25 -0500, "Joe Irvin" <ji3486@sccoast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>>>but fall down
>>>>when it comes to actual delivering health care.
>>>
>>> Which explains why so many in the US have none and so many
>>> in other nations live longer & are happier.
>>
>>They may live longer and be happier, but it isn't because of their
>>universal
>>healthcare system, its in spite of it.
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States#Delays_in_seeking_care_and_increased_use_of_emergency_care
> [
> Delays in seeking care and increased use of emergency care
> Uninsured Americans are less likely to have regular health care and use
> preventive services. They are more likely to delay seeking care, resulting
> in
> more medical crises, which are more expensive than ongoing treatment for
> such
> conditions as diabetes and high blood pressure. A 2007 study published in
> JAMA
> concluded that uninsured people were less likely than the insured to
> receive any
> medical care after an accidental injury or the onset of a new chronic
> condition.
> The uninsured with an injury were also twice as likely as those with
> insurance
> to have received none of the recommended follow-up care, and a similar
> pattern
> held for those with a new chronic condition.[119] Uninsured patients are
> twice
> as likely to visit hospital emergency rooms as those with insurance;
> burdening a
> system meant for true emergencies with less-urgent care needs.[120]
>
> Another recent study by researchers with the American Cancer Society found
> that
> individuals who lacked private insurance were more likely to be diagnosed
> with
> late-stage cancer than those who had such insurance. This was true of both
> the
> uninsured as well as those covered by Medicaid. "Individuals without
> private
> insurance are not receiving optimum care in terms of cancer screening or
> timely
> diagnosis and follow-up with health care providers," study authors
> concluded.[121][122][123]

How do you account for this then: "Lower income Americans are in better
health than comparable Canadians. Twice as many American seniors with
below-median incomes self-report "excellent" health compared to Canadian
seniors (11.7 percent versus 5.8 percent). Conversely, white Canadian young
adults with below-median incomes are 20 percent more likely than lower
income Americans to describe their health as "fair or poor."[5]"
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba649

I'm not saying the US healthcare system is perfect ... it does need some
work, but universal healthcare isn't the route as we've seen what happens in
countries like the UK and Canada who have universal healthcare.

> ]
> ....
> [
> Variations in provider practices
> The treatment given to a patient can vary significantly depending on which
> health care providers they use. Research suggests that some cost-effective
> treatments are not used as often as they should be, while other health
> care
> services are over-used.[126][127] Unnecessary treatments increase costs
> and can
> cause patients unnecessary anxiety.[128] The use of prescription drugs
> varies
> significantly by geographic region.[129]

Even if the above is true that doesn't mean the US should distroy the best
health care system in the world ... why not just work on the problem areas.
>
> One study has found significant geographic variations in Medicare spending
> for
> patients in the last two years of life. These spending levels are
> associated
> with the amount of hospital capacity available in each area. Higher
> spending did
> not result in patients living longer.[45][130][131][132]

What is so unusal about that ... probably most of healthcare spending comes
in the later years of life. Should it be automatically cut off?
> ]

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:33 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 11:10:36 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net>
wrote:

>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 15:50:49 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net> wrote:
>>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>>>On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:02:50 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net> wrote:
>>>>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977953779
>>>>>> "Sarah Palin Tells 'Lie of the Year'; Glenn Beck Takes Second"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Pulitzer Prize-winning political fact-checking project PolitiFact has announced
>>>>>>their first-ever Lie of the Year: Death panels
>>>>>
>>>>>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/23/health/23ucla.html
>>>>>"If you come into this hospital, we�re not going to let you die," said
>>>>>Dr. David T. Feinberg, the hospital system�s chief executive.
>>>>>
>>>>>Yet that ethos has made the medical center a prime target for critics
>>>>>in the Obama administration
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea
>>>
>>>THAT I can accept as the truth.
>>
>> How did saving the old guy's life at fairly low cost rather
>>than putting him on a wating list for a *possible* heart transplant
>>become something to blame Obama for?
>
>Simply whether or not 0bama's death panels (under another name of
>course since they don't exist) get to say what procedures are allowed
>and which are denied with a heart felt "Tough luck, Charlie. Here's a
>pamphlet on dying".
>
>> Logical minds want to know.
>
>No one has ever accused you of having a logical mind.

Or even a mind.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:37 am
From: "Joe Irvin"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:unlej5lobjm2aibvuvk7kkb3vevcjv7gch@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 10:06:25 -0500, "Joe Irvin" <ji3486@sccoast.net>
> wrote:
>
>>>>Annual Medicare fraud is
>>>>estimated at $60 billion. Annual profits for the top ten insurance
>>>>companies are $8 billion.
>>>
>>> "From the Weekly Standard"? LOL ....
>>> Is that after the bonuses?
>>
>>Address the issue, fraud and mismanagement. Its easy to demonize the
>>insurance companies.
>
> They take or consume at least 30% of every healtcare dollar spent.
> The dostors & hospitals & etc. pobably spend similar in trying
> to deal with them.
>
> Why not just have a national plan everyone pays into in some way
> & everybody gets a medical use credit card (with statments)?
> And someone checks the costs for each billed item.
> PLUS list the prices & let us shop for value !!
> And we could buy driugs with the card from vending machines
> (after the doctors write a perscription to our accounts).

I'll tell you the reason ... your above way has been tried in Canada and the
UK ... there are shortages and rationed care. You complain about how long
you had to wait ... adding millions more who do not have to pay to the rolls
will cause further delays and shortages. Who do you think use the
healthcare system today ... its people who have healthcare insurance ...
they do not deal directly with the doctors, a third party pays the bills so
they use the healthcare more than they would if they had to pay ... the same
will be true if people who do not pay are added to the healthcare rolls ...
shortages and rationing of care.
> --
> Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Cash for Cloture" under scrutiny!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/a9478ad3805a80b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 8:52 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:wPIZm.275916$mn3.195054@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>>
>>> The question is how much damage is the democrats willing to do to
>>> America.
>>> The Republicans didn't have anything to buy votes with so I'm inclined
>>> to
>>> think they stood
>>> on principle.
>>
>>The principle is that they can count on Big Pharma and the insurance lobby
>>to support them, even running TV commercials in many markets.
>
> It requires votes for those Senators to be re-elected. I'm in inclined to
> believe the
> Republicans might actually be listening to there electors.

But the electors have heads full of phony "facts" perpetuated by Pharma et
al. The Republicans are indeed listening to those people, and their primary
goal is to regain some of Congress in 2010. With health care, they think
they have a wedge issue.

If you're going to tell me that most people understand what's really going
on here, I'm going to say you're naive. <g>

>
>>
>>The chance that every Republican Senator doesn't get it is about zero.
>>They
>>get it, alright. And what they get is the chance to pound the Democrats.
>>This is the most disgusting display of partisanship we've seen in a while,
>>and the no's are playing it for all it's worth.
>
> Hey, we gave you R2D2, that was bipartisan ;)

I wish I knew what you're referring to so I didn't have to ask, but I have
to ask. Huh?

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: masonry drill warning
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/a3b12118d1ca9054?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 8:53 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Dec 27, 11:48 am, "Lib Loo" <heezb...@crazymother.kom> wrote:
> "Hul Tytus" <h...@panix.com> wrote in message
> > Anyone know why a 1/4 masonry drill has a warning "don't use on a drill
> > press"
> > ? This came from a local hardware store.
>
> > Hul
>
> What type of masonry is your drill press made of?

Post-tensioned concrete.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:04 am
From: "Rick"

"Hul Tytus" <ht@panix.com> wrote in message
news:hh7n9a$shu$1@reader1.panix.com...
> rec.crafts.metalworking
> masonry drill warning
>
> Anyone know why a 1/4 masonry drill has a warning "don't use on a drill
> press"
> ? This came from a local hardware store.
>
> Hul

If it's your typical Vermont American double flute, I've found the shanks on
some are soft enough to be bent over by hand while chucked .

Couple of guesses..in a hand drill they are free to drift a little when
hitting the edge of aggregate. Could also be an issue with the powder
jamming the bit in the hole.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:26 am
From: "The Henchman"

"Hul Tytus" <ht@panix.com> wrote in message
news:hh7n9a$shu$1@reader1.panix.com...
> rec.crafts.metalworking
> masonry drill warning
>
> Anyone know why a 1/4 masonry drill has a warning "don't use on a drill
> press"
> ? This came from a local hardware store.
>
> Hul

Masonry drills are designed for slower speeds and hammering action. Using
these bits in a drill is not the best idea because you'll need a good jig to
hold your workpiece down. Most people can't design a jig. Also masonry
bits tend to crush during cutting which makes them a poor choice to use on a
drill press because they'll walk or skate unless you apply lots of pressure.
It's easier to apply pressure by using a hand drill/hammer drill than many
small home shop drill presses. They seem a bit dangerous to use on a press.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Blind Car Drivers?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0f3307bd07f9b90b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 8:56 am
From: Ned Simmons

On 26 Dec 2009 02:43:40 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" <dnichols@d-and-d.com>
wrote:

>On 2009-12-23, DT <dthompson4389@SPAMwowway.com> wrote:
>> In article <QAoYm.414184$sz1.148296@en-nntp-10.dc1.easynews.com>,
>> kortjester@gmail.com says...
>
> [ ... ]
>
>>>I grew up in Cleveland, OH. up there, stop signs with white borders are
>>>optional.
>>
>> Actually they are not optional (at least any more), they are the
>> standard. The American Association of State Highway Officials specifies a
>> 30" wide. red stop sign with 3/4" white border. Most states, including
>> Ohio, have adopted these standards.
>
>FWIW -- I have some color slides (Kodachrome) taken about 1962/1963 in
> Cambridge Mass, which show stop signs of traditional shape and
> pattern (e.g. octagonal, with the edge stripe), but the main
> field is yellow, not red, and the letters and border stripe are
> red.
>
> I don't know whether this was true for all of Cambridge at this
> time, or only the MIT campus and surrounds, which is where the
> shots were taken.
>

I have a vague recollection of the stop signs changing when I was kid
in eastern MA. I was 10 in 1962, so I wouldn't be surprised if there
were still some stragglers at that time. Or, you've just implanted me
with a false memory <g>.

Here we go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_sign#History

--
Ned Simmons

==============================================================================
TOPIC: No proof
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5880b60d21c72504?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 9:02 am
From: tankfixer

In article <a2jej5pdtr75sq57bebj9gh1e567ri6s2g@4ax.com>,
Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>
> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 18:05:50 -0800, tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <nspbj551tltqjqtb4uc5ucubls9hvqphqm@4ax.com>,
> >Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
> >>
> >> http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=114674&sectionid=351020103
> >> "Russia: No proof of military N-plans in Iran"
> >> [
> >> As Western powers batten down the hatches and prepare sanctions against Tehran,
> >> a senior Russian official says there still is no proof of an Iranian nuclear
> >> weapons program.
> >>
> >> In remarks published on Friday, deputy Russian foreign minister Alexander
> >> Saltanov reiterated that Moscow is not convinced that Iran plans to weoponize
> >> its nuclear program, and moreover he has not been shown any collaborative
> >> evidence confirming that it is seeking to do so.
> >
> >I find comfort in the fact that Iran now has missles that can reach
> >Moscow...
>
> So what?
> Stuff is expensive & can easily fail. What a way to waste money.

No one ever claimed that islamic fanatics were smart..

> Who tricked them into it?

Why the evil Great Satan did of course...

>
> They NEED power & refineries.

Odd then that they build enrichment plants and centrifuges ...
Why not spend a tenth of what waste on the nukes and build their own
refineries ?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2010
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/229a6074efc578a7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 9:04 am
From: Not Sure

On Dec 26, 9:15 pm, Aratzio <a6ahly...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 23:01:01 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
> "Morton Davis" <antike...@go.com> got double secret probation for
> writing:
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Aratzio" <a6ahly...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1hmcj5tlkh4badhr89qlbnhehauenq2a67@4ax.com...
> >> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 06:11:35 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
> >> "Morton Davis" <antike...@go.com> got double secret probation for
> >> writing:
>
> >>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
> >>>news:q0qbj59iabn0dsqm6g0v2jk3ssesgnanvn@4ax.com...
> >>>>  I declare 2010 International Educate a Winger Day.
> >>>> --
> >>>> Cliff
>
> >>>2010 isn't a day, fucktard. It's a year. Go educate yourself.
>
> >> WHOOOOOOSH
>
> >That the sound of the wind through your empty head?
>
> Really, the best you could come back with was:
> "I know you are but what am I?"

Yeah, that "Whoooosh" was brilliant, huh?

>
> Not only do you not even have the vestiges of a sense of humor, you
> consider emulations of PeeWee Herman the epitome of insults.
>
> What next? Maybe a plagiarized quip from "1001 Insults, Second
> Edition, 1947"?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:07 am
From: Aratzio

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 09:04:24 -0800 (PST), in the land of
alt.usenet.kooks, Not Sure <fred1321123@gmail.com> got double secret
probation for writing:

>On Dec 26, 9:15�pm, Aratzio <a6ahly...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 23:01:01 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>> "Morton Davis" <antike...@go.com> got double secret probation for
>> writing:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >"Aratzio" <a6ahly...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>> >news:1hmcj5tlkh4badhr89qlbnhehauenq2a67@4ax.com...
>> >> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 06:11:35 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>> >> "Morton Davis" <antike...@go.com> got double secret probation for
>> >> writing:
>>
>> >>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>> >>>news:q0qbj59iabn0dsqm6g0v2jk3ssesgnanvn@4ax.com...
>> >>>> �I declare 2010 International Educate a Winger Day.
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Cliff
>>
>> >>>2010 isn't a day, fucktard. It's a year. Go educate yourself.
>>
>> >> WHOOOOOOSH
>>
>> >That the sound of the wind through your empty head?
>>
>> Really, the best you could come back with was:
>> "I know you are but what am I?"
>
>Yeah, that "Whoooosh" was brilliant, huh?

Not especially, but then it didn't require much to spot that the
incredibly obvious irony based humor went right on past.

I know, having the ability to spot the obvious is uncommon on Planet
Wingnuttia but here on reality based Earth it is a fairly common
skill.

So, don't get all sad, it is just part and parcel of what you can
expect for the rest of your life.

>
>>
>> Not only do you not even have the vestiges of a sense of humor, you
>> consider emulations of PeeWee Herman the epitome of insults.
>>
>> What next? Maybe a plagiarized quip from "1001 Insults, Second
>> Edition, 1947"?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 45 ACP ammo
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3bb9af572b42249c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 9:58 am
From: "Steve B"

"Snag" <snag_one@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:MZLZm.4231$DR6.785@newsfe19.iad...
> Stormin Mormon wrote:
>> What happens when the govt mandates a turn-in, and all your
>> supplies are suddenly worth zero?
>>
>> --
>> Christopher A. Young
>> Learn more about Jesus
>> www.lds.org
>> .
>>
>>
>> "Snag" <snag_one@comcast.net>
>> wrote in message news:mEzZm.15946$eH1.4163@newsfe16.iad...
>>
>>
>>
>> I've alwqys been kind of a stockpiler . Any time I find a
>> good buy on ammo
>> or components I'll buy as much as I can afford . I won't be
>> hurtin' unless
>> it comes to all out war in the streets .
>> And then it'll just be a matter of reloadin' fast enough .
>> --
>> Snag
>> I really like
>> Hornady 230 gr XTP's
>> in .45 ACP
>
> Guns ? What guns ? I don't have any guns . Sold 'em all years ago when
> Obama promised to protect me .
>
> Say , you ain't descended from that asshole Brigham Young are you ?
> Story goes that he stuck his staff into the ground by a pond and said
> "This would be a good place to have a community." . And thus was born
> Deweyville . They say the old willow tree next to Blackham's pond is that
> staff ... more likely one of it's descendents . Speaking of descendents ,
> if my daughter-in-law is correct , there was a guy really early in the
> church called "Mormon" Coombs . One of 'Ol Joe Smith's henchmen , if the
> story I heard is true .
> --
> Snag
> Supposedly one of
> my ancestors ...

You'll have to excuse Chris. He just top posts short ootsie cutesie posts
so he can have his sig line show up. He's building up points for a temple
recommend.

Steve

www.exmormon.org

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:25 am
From: "Greg O"

"Buerste" <buerste@wowway.com> wrote in message
news:G%CZm.11210$yM1.6511@newsfe11.iad...
>
> "Greg O" <goo1959@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fNCZm.451752$Jp1.271562@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
>>
>> "Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
>> news:lcxZm.409807$Xw3.332620@en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com...
>>> >
>>> I drove all over today, I can find .40 S&W everywhere but .45 ACP,
>>> forget about it.
>>>
>>>
>> I bought some .45 Blazers the other day for under $20 for 50 rounds. The
>> better, name brand stuff is going for closer to $30. I can buy it most
>> anywhere, but not alot of boxes on the shelf.
>>
>> --
>> Greg O
>> PoorUB
>> BS#287
>> 2010 Ultra - Wow!
>> 2005 Ultra, long gone and forgotten
>
> Reload for $3/box of 50 if you cast free lead.

Sure, after the investment of reloading equipment!
Pretty sure for my 50-100 rounds per year buying ammo is a better deal!
Greg O

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Machining a square section O ring groove
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3c3b9cde60aa6bce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 9:29 am
From: Chris Wilson

I need to machine a round billet of stainless steel on its flat face with a
square section groove to take an O ring. The OD needs to be about 60 mm,
the ID 50 mm and the depth of the groove 4 mm. I have a smallish (11 inch
swing Harrison) lathe and a Bridgeport universal mill, but very limited
tooling as I am a novice. What is the easiest way to attack this, the
billet is cicular on its OD, can be gripped in the chuch of the lathe, and
the groove will be concentric with the OD. I also have hand wheel roatable
table for the Bridgeport, although I haven't used it and am not even sure
of its proper name....rotary table? :)

I would probably have to buy or make a cutting tool for the lathe as I see
nothing obviously suitable amongst the stuff I have.

Thanks, the thing I need to groove was expensive and I don't want to wreck
it going in blind.

Thanks.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:13 am
From: "Bill Noble"

you should be able to cut this on your lathe using a "trepanning" tool - you
can grind your own

"Chris Wilson" <nospam@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:j55mxpbvincn.borxb9wwjynp$.dlg@40tude.net...
> I need to machine a round billet of stainless steel on its flat face with
> a
> square section groove to take an O ring. The OD needs to be about 60 mm,
> the ID 50 mm and the depth of the groove 4 mm. I have a smallish (11 inch
> swing Harrison) lathe and a Bridgeport universal mill, but very limited
> tooling as I am a novice. What is the easiest way to attack this, the
> billet is cicular on its OD, can be gripped in the chuch of the lathe, and
> the groove will be concentric with the OD. I also have hand wheel roatable
> table for the Bridgeport, although I haven't used it and am not even sure
> of its proper name....rotary table? :)
>
> I would probably have to buy or make a cutting tool for the lathe as I see
> nothing obviously suitable amongst the stuff I have.
>
>
> Thanks, the thing I need to groove was expensive and I don't want to wreck
> it going in blind.
>
> Thanks.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Republican Deficit Hypocrisy
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/bc89282d844d795e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:02 am
From: Winston_Smith

Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 21:15:43 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net> wrote:
>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>
>>>Democrats are troubled by the inconsistency of Republican lawmakers who approved
>>>a major Medicare expansion six years ago that has added tens of billions of
>>>dollars to federal deficits, but oppose current health overhaul plans.
>>
>>So what you are saying is if it costs enough then the Rs should sign
>>on. No matter what we get, the test is only does it cost at least X
>>dollars.
>>
>>How typically winger of you.
>
> "Republican Deficit Hypocrisy"

If you mean Republicans are hypocrites preaching about cutting the
deficit and then they keep on piling more and more on - agreed. I
like what they say; I hate what they do.

But in that case - right back at you.

Obama is now, as is traditional in the opening phase of new government
programs, running off at the mouth about how he's going to pay for his
boondoggle with savings.

Oh. Yeah. Right. Good. When has that ever happened. He long
ago has abandoned the "reform" he promised in his campaign. He has
put in special favors for every "pay me" group in sight to get their
enforcement. He has built in and guaranteed the fat, greed, and
waste.

There are zero changes in health care until 2013, conveniently after
the next election, and we don't get the full deal going until 2020.
That's over a decade of dying and suffering. Not the sort of stuff
you hear about in Democrat campaign speeches.

What he has done is front load the taxes; they start almost
immediately. The government now has a brand new revenue source that
will be flowing in for ten years with zero outlay on their part.

It's hard to conceive that the windfall will not be spent on a lot of
favored pork for favored sons. Not one time projects like fix all the
bridges so they will last another 40 years. It will be spend to start
up new programs that will have to be funded forever.

When it - finally - becomes time to deliver 0bamaCare, there will be
no money. Fortunately 0bama will have had his eight years and, with
any luck, the disaster of trying to make it work can be laid at the
feet of Republicans.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: chainsaw chain
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5c59802efa9cc01d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:16 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 09:44:33 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:

>With one free round of .45 acp at no extra charge!
>
>I've heard of people using used crankcase oil instead of bar
>oil. Poor lubricant, and the used oil wears the bar and
>chain rapidly. False economy for sure.

Did they filter it before running it through the saw?

Gunner

>
>--
>Christopher A. Young
>Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
>.
>
>
>"Larry Jaques"
><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
>
>>> Steve, it frequently goes on sale for ~$4 at BiMart here
>>> in the PNW.
>>
>>Still, ten is better than sixteen.
>
>Or $24 at Ace. Egad! "Now with PURE GOLD flakes inside!"?

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Top 10 stories of 2009
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/adc55113ed40fb4f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Dec 27 2009 10:27 am
From: Dan

HH&C wrote:
> On Dec 27, 1:24 am, Dan <dnada...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> HH&C wrote:
>>> On Dec 26, 11:57 am, Dan <dnada...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Lib Loo wrote:
>>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4b3415fd$0$4990$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>>>>> "Curly Surmudgeon" <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:hh149u$d1s$5@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 19:42:55 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
>>>>>>> <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Curly Surmudgeon" <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:hh11dt$d1s$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:38:04 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
>>>>>>>>> <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> "Buerste" <buer...@wowway.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>> news:hgsmm8$mdv$1@aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Curly Surmudgeon" <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:hgrvse$gbu$10@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 12:34:36 -0500, "Buerste"
>>>>>>>>>>> <buer...@wowway.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> OH NO, Obammy MUST receive ALL awards, recognition, accolades
>>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> love from everyone! It's in his contract. Only President
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wee-Wee and libtards matter...until 2010 when they become
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> obsolete and will be replaced with sane people. Bu-buy
>>>>>>>>>>> libtards,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't let the door hit you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, after 30 days in the Bozo Bin and you get exiled the first
>>>>>>>>>>>>> day out!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Buh-bye Bozo!
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> Please keep me plonked, I hate to see your pitiful, stupid shit
>>>>>>>>>>>> posts. You
>>>>>>>>>>>> are just another brain-dead libtard that has no morals and are a
>>>>>>>>>>>> burden on society. Better yet, just leave your mummy's computer
>>>>>>>>>>>> alone and quit playing with yourself in front of your President
>>>>>>>>>>>> Wee-Wee poster. Wanker!
>>>>>>>>>>> Hey, Tom, why don't you sit on one of your steel brushes and rotate?
>>>>>>>>>> Is that how you clean up your wife between customers?
>>>>>>>>> Now I remember why you were in the Bozo Bin for a month.
>>>>>>>>> Buh-bye!
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Regards, Curly
>>>>>>>> Oh, jeez, Terrell is still around? I thought maybe he'd choked on his
>>>>>>>> own bile. He must not be getting a lot of replies.
>>>>>>> I won't know, he's been not just relegated to a 30-day suspension but
>>>>>>> permanently kill filled now. Attacking family members out of spite is
>>>>>>> intolerable.
>>>>>>> He can stew in the Bozo Bin with the other trolls who have a
>>>>>>> wife/mother/
>>>>>>> sister fetish...
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Regards, Curly
>>>>>> It will be a more joyous Christmas. <g> Have a merry one, Curly.
>>>>> Curly doesn't believe in Christmas. Happy garbage day Curly.
>>>> Knowing Curly even as little as I do, I'm confident he believes in
>>>> Christmas far more than you do.
>>>> Dan-
>>> Am I to understand that a person of faith has to be perfect to hold a
>>> belief in God?
>>> Curly hold no believe in anything other than himself .
>> Even for you, that was nonsensical. Come back tomorrow, when there is a
>> small chance you are sober.
>>
>> Dan-
>
> OK. Same thing.
>
> If you have a specific question you can ask it now.

First, what has faith got to do with believing in "Christmas?" Although
nominally associated with religion, "Christmas" has meaning far beyond
the religious story associated with the name. Thus my statement that
Curly, who professes no religious belief (and is pretty much in the
anti-religion camp), believes more in Christmas than LieBeeLou, who
demonstrates daily (as well as in the text to which I responded) that he
is in no way a christian, professional or professing. I really fail to
understand the reference in your question about "perfect," as that has
NO connection with any prior text, or your canard about belief in a
mythical superbeing.

Your nonsensical statement about Curly not believing in anything but
himself is a complete nonsequitur, ever were it even the slightest based
in conventional reality.

So, what did you intend to say that is somehow connected with the
tit-for-tat between Curly and Liar?

Dan

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