twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 13 topics

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lie of the Year
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/631768a4d3953f6e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 8:26 am
From: tankfixer

In article <k47hj5pj3vs7ft23i2f46uppm9s6upp03g@4ax.com>,
Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>
> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 08:50:52 -0800, tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <okkej515fg60bmm5bvklkkt34feett6iih@4ax.com>,
> >Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
> >>
> >> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 10:06:25 -0500, "Joe Irvin" <ji3486@sccoast.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> >>>Countries
> >> >>>that have govt run universal care insure everyones healthcare
> >> >>
> >> >> For perhaps 1/3 the cost of what it is in the US.
> >> >
> >> >They may be able to run things at 1/3 the cost, but they don't deliver good
> >> >timely health care.
> >>
> >>
> >> >Giving everyone health care insurance is easy ... its
> >> >providing good timely healthcare that becomes the problem. "While
> >> >recognizing that many Canadians believe that we have one of the best health
> >> >care systems in the world, the founders of Timely Medical Alternatives Inc.
> >> >also recognize that there are some 875,000 Canadians currently on the
> >> >waiting list for referrals to specialists or for medical procedures."
> >> >http://www.timelymedical.ca/
>
> "Canadians believe that we have one of the best health care systems in the
> world"
>
> >>
> >> "Oops! This link appears to be broken."
> >>
> >Opps, your a lyin whore..
> >
> >It works just fine
> >
>
> Now, not then.
> And it's an ad.

Offering care for a fee to all those canadeins who got stuck on
government waiting lists...

> They claim such things as bypass operations for $(Canadian)
> 16,000 in 48 hours.
> Perhaps gummer should move to Canada <VBG>.
> As an illegal alien.
>
>
> BTW, Stable angina generally will not kill you
> (but get the cause checked).

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 8:53 am
From: Neolibertarian

In article <id5hj5lb7jidqa222o0iak1brp7nk0spk9@4ax.com>,
Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:

> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 09:22:17 -0600, Neolibertarian <cognac756@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <6t9cj511158277n052o8rncp36vkdeog8h@4ax.com>,
> > Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:15:31 -0600, Neolibertarian <cognac756@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >I know this might be a little hard for you to understand, and I refuse
> >> >to speculate here about your level of literacy, but this article only
> >> >serves to prove my assertion.
> >> >
> >> >A health insurance company cannot capriciously refuse treatment.
> >>
> >> http://cbs2.com/local/nataline.sarkisyan.CIGNA.2.615167.html
> >
> >This evidence doesn't refute the assertion.
>
> Those that died because insurance refused treatment don't count, eh?

She was granted coverage for the treatment.
>
> >This may be the contention
> >of the family's lawyer,
>
> Was the girl resurected?
>
> >but then this is exactly the way John Edwards
> >built his estate:
> >
> >http://tiny.cc/BcdWh
>
> "Oops! This link appears to be broken."

No, it's not broken, silly. Maybe you're using WebTV?
>
> >Mostly by proving his clients were all Tiny Tim Cratchit, whose father
> >couldn't afford the operation. Beware the class warfare warriors...
>
> ??
>
> >There's no proof that CIGNA "approved her treatment at the last minute"
> >in order to kill her. That's just trial lawyer demagoguery.
>
> She died within a few minutes. They had NOT approved treatment.
> They had DENIED treatment.

According to the article you linked to, she was granted treatment.

That it proved too late may be coincidence. Certainly, it's not
reasonable to believe CIGNA knew she was only a few hours away from
dying--unless, perhaps, they had a claims adjuster hanging out in
intensive care and phoning company headquarters with updates on her
condition.

> You claimed that they could not.
> You were wrong.
>
> >
> >Torts cost all of us about $250 billion a year--
>
> Trying to change the subject?

Your article describes a tort case, dummy.
>
> >a major factor in your
> >rising health care costs.
>
> Nope.
> They cost about 1% or less of it all.

Please provide cites for your claim.

> Now you want to deny the family the ability to sue over the dead
> girl who was insured but denied treatment.

You may not understand what's being discussed when someone mentions
"tort reform."
>
> Probably want bad doctors, drugs & hospitals too.

That's sophomoric fallacy.
>
> >There are prolly $ billions more in the
> >invisible costs of "defensive medicine" practices.
>
> You guess.

I don't guess that doctors practice "defensive medicine" because they're
exposed to nearly unlimited liability in the American court system:

"A Medical Society study of Massachusetts physicians last year was the
first of its kind to quantify defensive practices across a number of
medical specialties and the first to link defensive medicine to Medicare
cost data. The study found that 83 percent of physicians reported
practicing defensive medicine, and that an average of 18 to 28 percent
of tests, procedures, referrals and consultations and 13 percent of
hospitalizations were ordered for defensive reasons.

"The Society conservatively estimated the cost of such practices to be a
minimum of $1.4 billion, but cautioned that the real price tag is likely
much higher, as the dollar estimates do not include tests and diagnostic
procedures ordered by physicians in other specialties, observation
admissions to hospitals, specialty referrals and consultations, or
unnecessary prescriptions. And the eight specialties represented in the
survey accounted for only 46 percent of the physicians in the state."

http://tiny.cc/a2zvo
>
> > If you want to reduce
> >costs, you need tort reform. But that was never on the table with the
> >"health care reform" hysterical Democrats up on Capitol Hill are ramming
> >through.
>
> Great idea. Remove the last bits of responsbility & the Rule of Law.

You may not understand what's being discussed when someone mentions
"tort reform."
> >
> >Why is that, do you suppose?
>
> They could see the morons coming.
>
> >You somehow believe, without evidence, that a NHS will solve little
> >problems like Nataline's liver transplant.
>
> You stated the insurance firms could not deny treatment.

I stated that they couldn't capriciously do so. And, as a matter of
fact, they can't.

There must be cause.

> They can & do. For their bottom line & CEO bonuses.

They must show cause for rescission. Contract law is the foundation of
your society.

> You were wrong.
> People die. And go bankrupt.

Certainly they do both.

My contention is: you can't pass a law to prevent either. Pass as many
laws as you like, and the universe will still be the universe. People
will still die, and people will still go bankrupt.
>
> >Walter Payton had excellent insurance, and an ability to pay for an
> >operation and treatment out of his own pocket, if needed. Yet he still
> >died waiting on a liver.
>
> Nope. He was not waiting on a liver. He was not even a transplant
> candidate.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Payton
> [
> In February 1999, Payton announced that he had a rare autoimmune liver
> disease
> known as primary sclerosing cholangitis. The disease probably led to his bile
> duct cancer.[29] Payton spent his final months as an advocate for organ
> transplants, appearing in many commercials to encourage others to donate
> organs,
> although by the time his first appeal was recorded, his illness was already
> too
> far advanced for transplantation to have been a viable option
> .....
> On November 1, 1999, Payton died from the complications that arose from his
> illness.
> ]

I stand corrected, though not because of what you read at Wikipedia. He
was eligible for a transplant only briefly. A transplant wouldn't have
cured the cancer. I horribly misstated his case.

However, 2,000 people in the United States die waiting for liver
transplants every year. They're waiting for them because they're on
Medicaid, CHIP, Medicare, they have the means to pay for the transplant
out of pocket, or they're covered by their private insurance.

And yet they still die.

The method used by European health care resource allocation boards is
the QALY. Ezekiel Emanuel is advising the President to use "The Complete
Lives System" for rationing health care resources:

"The complete lives system.

"Because none of the currently used systems satisfy all the ethical
requirements for just allocation, we propose an alternative: the
complete lives system. This system incorporates five principles:
youngest first, prognosis, save the most lives, lottery, and
instrumental value. As such, it prioritizes younger people who have not
yet lived a complete life and will be unlikely to do so without aid.
Many thinkers have accepted complete lives as the appropriate focus of
distributive justice."

http://tiny.cc/9fibb

Laws won't create a world where everyone gets a transplant. Sorry.
>
> >I hate to brake this to you, but under a NHS, people will still die.
>
> They die earlier in the US.
>
> [
> "People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the
> U.K.
> where the National Health Service would say the quality of life of this
> brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."
> ] - Aug. 3, 2009 in Investors Business Daily
>
> What is the max cap on YOUR insurance?
> Many have a 1 or 2 million lifetime cap, many probably a LOT
> lower.

You're not responsible for what's in your contract, of course. You can't
be held responsible for the managing your own affairs.

That's why you elect populist-bureacrats to office. It's THEIR job to
read the fine print.

Is that about right?

--
Neolibertarian

"Nobody inherits civilisation.
You inherit the /ruins/ of civilisation.
Beginning with yourself.
And you can't even afford its heating bill."
---Dennnis M. Hammes

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 9:19 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Joe Irvin" <ji3486@sccoast.net> wrote in message
news:_uqdnThkcqIoXaXWRVn_vwA@comporium.net...
>
> "Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
> news:k47hj5pj3vs7ft23i2f46uppm9s6upp03g@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 08:50:52 -0800, tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>In article <okkej515fg60bmm5bvklkkt34feett6iih@4ax.com>,
>>>Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 10:06:25 -0500, "Joe Irvin" <ji3486@sccoast.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>>Countries
>>>> >>>that have govt run universal care insure everyones healthcare
>>>> >>
>>>> >> For perhaps 1/3 the cost of what it is in the US.
>>>> >
>>>> >They may be able to run things at 1/3 the cost, but they don't deliver
>>>> >good
>>>> >timely health care.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >Giving everyone health care insurance is easy ... its
>>>> >providing good timely healthcare that becomes the problem. "While
>>>> >recognizing that many Canadians believe that we have one of the best
>>>> >health
>>>> >care systems in the world, the founders of Timely Medical Alternatives
>>>> >Inc.
>>>> >also recognize that there are some 875,000 Canadians currently on the
>>>> >waiting list for referrals to specialists or for medical procedures."
>>>> >http://www.timelymedical.ca/
>>
>> "Canadians believe that we have one of the best health care systems in
>> the
>> world"
>
> You left out the rest of the quotation ... I tried clicking on the cite
> address and it worked for me ... it must be your computer or firewall ...
> Why just leave part of the quote that seems to favor your argument and not
> the whole quote. Here it is again: "While recognizing that many
> Canadians believe that we have one of the best health care systems in the
> world, the founders of Timely Medical Alternatives Inc. also recognize
> that there are some 875,000 Canadians currently on the waiting list for
> referrals to specialists or for medical procedures."
> http://www.timelymedical.ca/
>
> Anyway the quote goes on to say that 875,000 Canadians are on waiting
> lists for referrals to specialists or for medical procedures.

Here's something from that old socialist's tool, _Business Week_:

"Despite spending lots more per capita on health care, the U.S. is often as
bad or worse than other industrialized nations in wait times"

http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jun2007/tc20070621_716260.htm

The old waiting-time chestnut has been over-roasted. Here's another:
"A Commonwealth Fund study of six highly industrialized countries, the U.S.,
and five nations with national health systems, Britain, Germany, Australia,
New Zealand, and Canada, found waiting times were worse in the U.S. than in
all the other countries except Canada."

FWIW, I waited four months, two years ago, to get an initial appointment
with an endocrinologist. Now I'm after a new one, and I've waited two
months, with another month to go.

It varies widely by specialty but, as the reports mentioned above show, the
US is about the same as most countries that have universal care. Canada is
kind of an outlier. The claims about the UK, particularly today, don't
really hold up.

Ed Huntress

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 9:38 am
From: Hang Dog

Joe Irvin wrote:
> "Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
> news:unlej5lobjm2aibvuvk7kkb3vevcjv7gch@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 26 Dec 2009 10:06:25 -0500, "Joe Irvin" <ji3486@sccoast.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Annual Medicare fraud is
>>>>> estimated at $60 billion. Annual profits for the top ten insurance
>>>>> companies are $8 billion.
>>>> "From the Weekly Standard"? LOL ....
>>>> Is that after the bonuses?
>>> Address the issue, fraud and mismanagement. Its easy to demonize the
>>> insurance companies.
>> They take or consume at least 30% of every healtcare dollar spent.
>> The dostors & hospitals & etc. pobably spend similar in trying
>> to deal with them.
>>
>> Why not just have a national plan everyone pays into in some way
>> & everybody gets a medical use credit card (with statments)?
>> And someone checks the costs for each billed item.
>> PLUS list the prices & let us shop for value !!
>> And we could buy driugs with the card from vending machines
>> (after the doctors write a perscription to our accounts).
>
> I'll tell you the reason ... your above way has been tried in Canada and the
> UK ... there are shortages and rationed care.

I think you are a fucking lying cunt that is talking out of his arsehole.

In the UK we like to bitch about the services that care about. The NHS
is a system that the newspapers like to bitch about in order to beat the
government.

Now 18 month ago when I was rolling about on the floor in extreme pain.
The paramedic was at the door within 15 minutes, did a number of tests
and diagnosed renal colic offered me drugs, or a trip to local hospital,
and if I decided to remain at home would return if I later decided to go
to the hospital. Now after seeing the doctor the following day I decided
to invoke the medical insurance to get a MRI scan a few days earlier to
check that the stone had passed.

A few weeks ago when some builder fell off a ladder in the village they
had the air ambulance out for him.

My father spent weeks in hospital after prostrate cancer. My wife has
had three operations for lymphoma cancer in the last 15 years, and one
for ovarian cancer. She'll go into hospital next week for an operation
on her foot.

For the vast majority of the population all their health needs are taken
care of free at the point of use.

It might not be a speedy as one would wish but then it never is.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Edgecam's U.S. Reseller Problem
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5ecddcc495e2737a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 8:27 am
From: Joe788

http://joncluelessbanquer.blogspot.com/2008/05/jon-banquer-discovers-mastercam.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Learn DP Technology Esprit
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e5e015d6abbe9411?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 8:27 am
From: Joe788

http://joncluelessbanquer.blogspot.com/2008/05/jon-banquer-discovers-mastercam.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How many guns are out there...really?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0a32d0ccda83a766?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 8:29 am
From: "HH&C"

On Dec 28, 11:30 am, Dan <dnada...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ed Huntress wrote:
> > "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:87af08ea-491e-4607-981e-aaecf19bb467@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
> > On Dec 27, 3:53 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> "Buerste" <buer...@wowway.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:%qPZm.16132$eH1.14837@newsfe16.iad...
>
> >>> "Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:bdjej5t45nikfgjhvf3cm6n20drvjhugdu@4ax.com...
> >>>>http://callejonextrano.blogspot.com/2009/03/how-many-guns-are-too-man...
> >>>> HOW MANY GUNS ARE TOO MANY?
> >>>> In order to properly discuss some aspects of the "gun control question"
> >>>> we need a simple answer to a complex question.
> >>>> How many guns and how many gun owners are there in America? That's a
> >>>> good question. I wish there were an easy answer.
> >>> <snip>
> >>> So, how many is MY allotment? ...just - one - more...
> >>> Now with Interpol being able to do the UN's bidding with impunity and no
> >>> accountability in the US thanks to President Wee-Wee, guns, ammo and
> >>> reloading components are high on the list for confiscation.
> >> Hey, I think I saw that movie, too, but I fell asleep before Goldfinger
> >> took
> >> over the world. Or was that Dr. No? Oh, well.
>
> >> There is no such thing as an "Interpol officer." They can't make arrests.
> >> When any country works with Interpol, its own officers are seconded to
> >> Interpol's international coordinators, for multi-country pursuit of child
> >> pornographers, drug dealers, money launders, and so on.
>
> >> What? No bankers?
>
> > <g> Maybe. I've never seen their list of international crimes.
>
> >> But US law officers working with Interpol follow their own country's laws.
> >> Nothing is changed in that regard by the new agreement. All the agreement
> >> does is to extend certain diplomatic privileges to Interpol agents.
>
> >> --
> >> Ed Huntress
>
> >> Yes, yes, Ed. Of course.
>
> > Yes, of course. The agreement is not a secret. Look it up.
>
> But, but, but, then they would have no reason to be paranoid (if they
> ever actually became educated).
>
> Then what fun would life be?
>
> Sad when a bunch of little boys think the adults are trying to take
> their toys away...
>
> Dan

Well, Dan, in Obama's first week in office his attny general laid out
the plan for AWB2, to include classifying most centerfire rifle
ammunition as "armor piercing." But by then Obama already had too
much on his plate and the AG retracted.

Burying your head in the sand is not how to become educated, but good
luck with that approach.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 8:35 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Dan" <dnadan56@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:TW4_m.11354$yM1.1816@newsfe11.iad...
> Ed Huntress wrote:
>> "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:87af08ea-491e-4607-981e-aaecf19bb467@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
>> On Dec 27, 3:53 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>> "Buerste" <buer...@wowway.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:%qPZm.16132$eH1.14837@newsfe16.iad...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> "Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:bdjej5t45nikfgjhvf3cm6n20drvjhugdu@4ax.com...
>>>>> http://callejonextrano.blogspot.com/2009/03/how-many-guns-are-too-man...
>>>>> HOW MANY GUNS ARE TOO MANY?
>>>>> In order to properly discuss some aspects of the "gun control
>>>>> question"
>>>>> we need a simple answer to a complex question.
>>>>> How many guns and how many gun owners are there in America? That's a
>>>>> good question. I wish there were an easy answer.
>>>> <snip>
>>>> So, how many is MY allotment? ...just - one - more...
>>>> Now with Interpol being able to do the UN's bidding with impunity and
>>>> no
>>>> accountability in the US thanks to President Wee-Wee, guns, ammo and
>>>> reloading components are high on the list for confiscation.
>>> Hey, I think I saw that movie, too, but I fell asleep before Goldfinger
>>> took
>>> over the world. Or was that Dr. No? Oh, well.
>>>
>>> There is no such thing as an "Interpol officer." They can't make
>>> arrests.
>>> When any country works with Interpol, its own officers are seconded to
>>> Interpol's international coordinators, for multi-country pursuit of
>>> child
>>> pornographers, drug dealers, money launders, and so on.
>>
>>> What? No bankers?
>>
>> <g> Maybe. I've never seen their list of international crimes.
>>
>>> But US law officers working with Interpol follow their own country's
>>> laws.
>>> Nothing is changed in that regard by the new agreement. All the
>>> agreement
>>> does is to extend certain diplomatic privileges to Interpol agents.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ed Huntress
>>
>>> Yes, yes, Ed. Of course.
>>
>> Yes, of course. The agreement is not a secret. Look it up.
>>
> But, but, but, then they would have no reason to be paranoid (if they ever
> actually became educated).
>
> Then what fun would life be?
>
> Sad when a bunch of little boys think the adults are trying to take their
> toys away...
>
> Dan

Don't disturb them. It keeps them occupied in their basements, oiling their
guns and making ammo, and out of real trouble.

--
Ed Huntress

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 8:43 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"HH&C" <hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:371c9724-d248-4624-9958-56b947b2593d@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 28, 11:30 am, Dan <dnada...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Ed Huntress wrote:
> > "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:87af08ea-491e-4607-981e-aaecf19bb467@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
> > On Dec 27, 3:53 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> "Buerste" <buer...@wowway.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:%qPZm.16132$eH1.14837@newsfe16.iad...
>
> >>> "Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:bdjej5t45nikfgjhvf3cm6n20drvjhugdu@4ax.com...
> >>>>http://callejonextrano.blogspot.com/2009/03/how-many-guns-are-too-man...
> >>>> HOW MANY GUNS ARE TOO MANY?
> >>>> In order to properly discuss some aspects of the "gun control
> >>>> question"
> >>>> we need a simple answer to a complex question.
> >>>> How many guns and how many gun owners are there in America? That's a
> >>>> good question. I wish there were an easy answer.
> >>> <snip>
> >>> So, how many is MY allotment? ...just - one - more...
> >>> Now with Interpol being able to do the UN's bidding with impunity and
> >>> no
> >>> accountability in the US thanks to President Wee-Wee, guns, ammo and
> >>> reloading components are high on the list for confiscation.
> >> Hey, I think I saw that movie, too, but I fell asleep before Goldfinger
> >> took
> >> over the world. Or was that Dr. No? Oh, well.
>
> >> There is no such thing as an "Interpol officer." They can't make
> >> arrests.
> >> When any country works with Interpol, its own officers are seconded to
> >> Interpol's international coordinators, for multi-country pursuit of
> >> child
> >> pornographers, drug dealers, money launders, and so on.
>
> >> What? No bankers?
>
> > <g> Maybe. I've never seen their list of international crimes.
>
> >> But US law officers working with Interpol follow their own country's
> >> laws.
> >> Nothing is changed in that regard by the new agreement. All the
> >> agreement
> >> does is to extend certain diplomatic privileges to Interpol agents.
>
> >> --
> >> Ed Huntress
>
> >> Yes, yes, Ed. Of course.
>
> > Yes, of course. The agreement is not a secret. Look it up.
>
> But, but, but, then they would have no reason to be paranoid (if they
> ever actually became educated).
>
> Then what fun would life be?
>
> Sad when a bunch of little boys think the adults are trying to take
> their toys away...
>
> Dan

>Well, Dan, in Obama's first week in office his attny general laid out
>the plan for AWB2, to include classifying most centerfire rifle
>ammunition as "armor piercing." But by then Obama already had too
>much on his plate and the AG retracted.
>

Pelosi and Reid let Holder know that he doesn't make the laws, and that they
oppose any such ban.

However, little has been said about the real effect and purpose of that
statement. Sales of guns and ammo went through the roof, stimulating the
economy with a shot of spending from an unlikely segment of society. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 8:59 am
From: "Steve B"

"Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:HS3_m.492849$ua.305333@en-nntp-05.dc1.easynews.com...
> Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
>
>>About 15 years ago they had a woman sign
>>up for the course with the sole purpose of committing suicide. She
>>managed
>>to get one shot into her head before an instructor could stop her. She
>>survived, but with extensive brain damage. It still gives me the willies
>>just thinking about it.
>
> Suicide is a selfish act.
>
> Wes

I think two of those have happened at gun ranges in Las Vegas. Just renting
the lane, not taking lessons.

Steve

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 9:00 am
From: "Steve B"

Dear Dan Dan:

It's NOT paranoia when they ARE really out to get you.

Steve

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 9:36 am
From: Jim Chandler

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 15:24:09 -0500, Frank
<frankperiodlogullo@comcast.net> wrote:

>On 12/27/2009 2:50 PM, Jeff M wrote:
>> More than enough, plus maintenance kits and plenty of ammunition.
>
>The stock answer is more than I need but less than I want ;)

If you know how many guns you have....you don't have enough.

Jim

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Palin Wins Inagural Award!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0ea290197ad1982a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 8:32 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Strabo" <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote in message
news:rd3_m.121309$Wf2.10957@newsfe23.iad...
> sittingduck wrote:
>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>
>>> "sittingduck" <duck@spamherelots.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9CEDE89081BDEduckrulestheuniverse@nomail.afraid.org...
>>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> But you're focusing on the wrong problem, Dan. The problem is a system
>>>>> that's focused on fixing things that are broken. A good system focuses
>>>>> on reducing breakage.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's the big thing we need.
>>>> Bingo! This is the root of many of our problems, not just healthcare
>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>> The current attempt at healthcare "reform" is a joke. The food industry
>>>> and
>>>> healthcare/drug industries are making far too much money of ignorant
>>>> fools hooked on junk food. All it's going to do is throw thousands and
>>>> thousands more people into a fucked up system.
>>>>
>>>> My republican side thinks the stupid fuckers should just get fat, get
>>>> diabetes, and die without any help. Why should I pay into a system that
>>>> these
>>>> leeches will overload and make horribly expensive?
>>> Because they're going to anyway. There's no way that you can stop them.
>>> So the choices are not whether to let people die, but how to keep them
>>> from overloading the system. The first thing is to keep them from
>>> overloading the ERs. That's really costing us.
>>
>> I just can't see any good way to fix it. Do you have any ideas? What can
>> be done to get people to wake up?
>> How do we keep them out of ERs? More preventative care, and education?
> >
>
> Poor, poor long-suffering, guilt-ridden do-gooders.
>
> Once the checks stop and the grocery shelves are empty, it'll
> fix itself.
>
> You do have guns, gold, food and water, don't you?

"Hey, guys, Strabo has guns, gold, food, and water! You guys flank, you
others circle to the rear, and the rest take cover and fire when I give the
word!" <g>

--
Ed Huntress

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 9:36 am
From: "Lib Loo"

"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4b38dd8c$0$22519$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>
> "Strabo" <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote in message
> news:rd3_m.121309$Wf2.10957@newsfe23.iad...
>> sittingduck wrote:
>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>
>>>> "sittingduck" <duck@spamherelots.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns9CEDE89081BDEduckrulestheuniverse@nomail.afraid.org...
>>>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> But you're focusing on the wrong problem, Dan. The problem is a
>>>>>> system
>>>>>> that's focused on fixing things that are broken. A good system
>>>>>> focuses
>>>>>> on reducing breakage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's the big thing we need.
>>>>> Bingo! This is the root of many of our problems, not just healthcare
>>>>> either.
>>>>>
>>>>> The current attempt at healthcare "reform" is a joke. The food
>>>>> industry
>>>>> and
>>>>> healthcare/drug industries are making far too much money of ignorant
>>>>> fools hooked on junk food. All it's going to do is throw thousands and
>>>>> thousands more people into a fucked up system.
>>>>>
>>>>> My republican side thinks the stupid fuckers should just get fat, get
>>>>> diabetes, and die without any help. Why should I pay into a system
>>>>> that
>>>>> these
>>>>> leeches will overload and make horribly expensive?
>>>> Because they're going to anyway. There's no way that you can stop them.
>>>> So the choices are not whether to let people die, but how to keep them
>>>> from overloading the system. The first thing is to keep them from
>>>> overloading the ERs. That's really costing us.
>>>
>>> I just can't see any good way to fix it. Do you have any ideas? What can
>>> be done to get people to wake up?
>>> How do we keep them out of ERs? More preventative care, and education?
>> >
>>
>> Poor, poor long-suffering, guilt-ridden do-gooders.
>>
>> Once the checks stop and the grocery shelves are empty, it'll
>> fix itself.
>>
>> You do have guns, gold, food and water, don't you?
>
> "Hey, guys, Strabo has guns, gold, food, and water! You guys flank, you
> others circle to the rear, and the rest take cover and fire when I give
> the word!" <g>
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
>

LOL, you'll look good with a third eye.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 9:40 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Lib Loo" <heezback@crazymother.kom> wrote in message
news:hhaqbv$bob$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
>
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4b38dd8c$0$22519$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>
>> "Strabo" <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote in message
>> news:rd3_m.121309$Wf2.10957@newsfe23.iad...
>>> sittingduck wrote:
>>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "sittingduck" <duck@spamherelots.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Xns9CEDE89081BDEduckrulestheuniverse@nomail.afraid.org...
>>>>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But you're focusing on the wrong problem, Dan. The problem is a
>>>>>>> system
>>>>>>> that's focused on fixing things that are broken. A good system
>>>>>>> focuses
>>>>>>> on reducing breakage.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's the big thing we need.
>>>>>> Bingo! This is the root of many of our problems, not just healthcare
>>>>>> either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The current attempt at healthcare "reform" is a joke. The food
>>>>>> industry
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> healthcare/drug industries are making far too much money of ignorant
>>>>>> fools hooked on junk food. All it's going to do is throw thousands
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> thousands more people into a fucked up system.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My republican side thinks the stupid fuckers should just get fat, get
>>>>>> diabetes, and die without any help. Why should I pay into a system
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> these
>>>>>> leeches will overload and make horribly expensive?
>>>>> Because they're going to anyway. There's no way that you can stop
>>>>> them.
>>>>> So the choices are not whether to let people die, but how to keep them
>>>>> from overloading the system. The first thing is to keep them from
>>>>> overloading the ERs. That's really costing us.
>>>>
>>>> I just can't see any good way to fix it. Do you have any ideas? What
>>>> can be done to get people to wake up?
>>>> How do we keep them out of ERs? More preventative care, and education?
>>> >
>>>
>>> Poor, poor long-suffering, guilt-ridden do-gooders.
>>>
>>> Once the checks stop and the grocery shelves are empty, it'll
>>> fix itself.
>>>
>>> You do have guns, gold, food and water, don't you?
>>
>> "Hey, guys, Strabo has guns, gold, food, and water! You guys flank, you
>> others circle to the rear, and the rest take cover and fire when I give
>> the word!" <g>
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>>
>
> LOL, you'll look good with a third eye.

Strabo would be dead before he could take the safety off. One man alone
against a starving and mostly armed population would have a short life
expectancy.

We have roughly a gun for every man, woman, and child in the US. How many
gold-hoarding survivalists do you think there are?

--
Ed Huntress
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Suburbanite shoots two home invasion suspects
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/4a2d826a10ae8bcd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 8:39 am
From: Ignoramus4115

On 2009-12-28, Gunner Asch <gunner@lightspeed.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 06:44:09 -0600, Ignoramus4115
><ignoramus4115@NOSPAM.4115.invalid> wrote:
>
>>The story sounds a little incongruous, but still interesting.
>>
>>http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/12/suburban-homeowner-shoots-2-home-invasion-suspects.html
>>
>>i
> It happens with great regularlity.
>
> http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/2009/12/
>
> http://www.thearmedcitizen.com/2009/11/
>
> etc etc...

What I found odd, in the story that I cited, is this:

``A press release from police said the shooting happened at about 5:47
p.m. Saturday, with the masked men forcing their way into a house in
the Country Ridge subdivision, then engaging in "repeated demands and
physical altercations." The pair refused to leave, according to police
and one of the homeowners shot them.''

It just does not sound like a garden variety home invasion.

> Be sure to hit More at the bottom of each page.
>
>
> Gunner
>
> "I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
> means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
> making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
> it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
> countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
> poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
> poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
> more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
> Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 9:04 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Dec 28, 11:39 am, Ignoramus4115 <ignoramus4...@NOSPAM.4115.invalid>
wrote:
> ...
> What I found odd, in the story that I cited, is this:
>
> ``A press release from police said the shooting happened at about 5:47
> p.m. Saturday, with the masked men forcing their way into a house in
> the Country Ridge subdivision, then engaging in "repeated demands and
> physical altercations." The pair refused to leave, according to police
> and one of the homeowners shot them.''
>
> It just does not sound like a garden variety home invasion.
>
> i

Maybe he had revealed his gun collection on the Internet.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Antikythera Mechanism - rebuilt 100 BCE analog computer
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/47da0653083bdd97?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 8:44 am
From: Lewis Hartswick

Gunner Asch wrote:
> Absolutely fascinating! I was only vaguely aware of Velikovsky..and
> after reading about his data and reports....Im stunned!
>
> Way cool!!
>
> Gunner
>

Gunner, I have "The Velikovsky Affair"
Edited by Alfred deGrazia .
I bought this back in the 70s (I think) when there
was the big flap over Worlds in Collision which
I had read as well as Earth in Upheaval and the
other one ? .(Ah! Ages in Chaos)
If you would like to read it I'll be glad to ship
it to you.
I followed the Pense' articles also.
I still think it's one of the biggest "black eyes"
the scientific community has ever had. It makes
Copernicus 's recantation by the Catholic church
look like a grade school brawl.
...Lew...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Extending lathe spindle
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/ab15d8baeac247dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 8:45 am
From: spaco

I see, but if the wear is DOWN not sideways, shouldn't these numbers
still apply? I'd think you could test this thinking by clamping an 8
or 10 inch long flat plate to the back of some machined bed surface and
then putting a dial indicator on your longest boring bar to test for
sideways movement of the saddle as you traverse the bad area. If the
saddle is moving sideways, then I see the problem.
Wait a minute. Mount a known cylindrical bar in the lathe. Make it
as long as you can. Run all the way along it with a dial indicator. If
the worn ways ARE the problem, then you should have NO taper at the
tailstock end. The tapering should only start when the left edge of the
saddle gets to the wear area. If this is true, I am wrong and will
never bother you again on this issue.

Pete Stanaitis
----------------

> Pete, the saddle rides on "inverted vee ways", and the inclining parts
> of the vees are worn. I can see and feel that wear.
>
> i

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Conservative websites offer bomb making instructions
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/43a8968cf30d4ac5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 8:47 am
From: Patriot Games

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 04:48:04 -0500, Cliff
<Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:

Liars are Exposed:

On Thu, 10 Dec 2009 10:07:06 -0500, Cliff
<Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/usa/President-Obama-Accepts-Nobel-Peace-Prize-78955552.html
> "President Obama Accepts Nobel Peace Prize"
> No winger ever won one.

Oops! Caught LYING (again):

"Dr. Henry Alfred Kissinger (born May 27, 1923), is a German-born
American political scientist, diplomat, and recipient of the Nobel
Peace Prize. He served as National Security Advisor and later
concurrently as Secretary of State in the Nixon Administration."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How does a Palin/Beck ticket sound?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3a79bd6938f10f4d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 8:52 am
From: Aratzio

On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 08:04:17 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
"ArmyOfDorkness" <DorkAsKnight@hotmail.com> got double secret
probation for writing:

>
>
>"Jim Alder" <jimalder@ssnet.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns9CEEE977A1A3Ajimaldersssnetcom@216.196.97.142...
>> Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in
>> news:q0lfj5lbqifqhnu1ea0gj56in88nc2jduc@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 15:03:35 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> Jim Alder <jimalder@ssnet.com> got double secret probation for
>>> writing:
>>>
>>>>Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in
>>>>news:rgdfj5ltea8418cc31r93nh5ivsqso41jm@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 13:27:17 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>> Jim Alder <jimalder@ssnet.com> got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Find those "WMDs" yet?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not looking, dumb shit? I know where they went. Why do you keep
>>>>>> asking?
>>>>>> Are you demented?
>>>>>
>>>>> Have you told anyone in the military or DoD that you have insider
>> knowledge
>>>>> pertaining to existing Iraqi weapons of mass destruction?
>>>>
>>>> They already know.
>>>
>>> So Bush failed there too, but made sure they informed you while they
>>> were failing so that there would be a *reliable* record of their
>>> failure.
>>>
>>> So what is your plan to make sure the world knows this information?
>>> Will you be going on the Sunday talk shows to discuss with Dick Cheney
>>> the failures in the Bush administration and what you would do to
>>> correct the failures of the Bush Administration?
>>
>> Nope. But then, I don't consider it a failure of the Bush administration
>> that Hussein managed to smuggle the WMDs out of the country before or
>> slightly
>> after the invasion.
>
>That's why everyone knows you as Alderloon.
>
>

His world has a certain stress related flavor that most of the lunatic
fringe lacks. He seems to know that he is writing complete nonsense
yet cannot stop himself because it is all he can muster against those
that he hates with such passion.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 9:42 am
From: "\"The Great One\""

"Aratzio" <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message news:eeohj5psjr0lble4kd4ntoal9s2rrglemr@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 08:04:17 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
> "ArmyOfDorkness" <DorkAsKnight@hotmail.com> got double secret
> probation for writing:
>
> >
> >
> >"Jim Alder" <jimalder@ssnet.com> wrote in message
> >news:Xns9CEEE977A1A3Ajimaldersssnetcom@216.196.97.142...
> >> Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in
> >> news:q0lfj5lbqifqhnu1ea0gj56in88nc2jduc@4ax.com:
> >>
> >>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 15:03:35 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
> >>> Jim Alder <jimalder@ssnet.com> got double secret probation for
> >>> writing:
> >>>
> >>>>Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in
> >>>>news:rgdfj5ltea8418cc31r93nh5ivsqso41jm@4ax.com:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 13:27:17 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
> >>>>> Jim Alder <jimalder@ssnet.com> got double secret probation for writing:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> Find those "WMDs" yet?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Not looking, dumb shit? I know where they went. Why do you keep
> >>>>>> asking?
> >>>>>> Are you demented?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Have you told anyone in the military or DoD that you have insider
> >> knowledge
> >>>>> pertaining to existing Iraqi weapons of mass destruction?
> >>>>
> >>>> They already know.
> >>>
> >>> So Bush failed there too, but made sure they informed you while they
> >>> were failing so that there would be a *reliable* record of their
> >>> failure.
> >>>
> >>> So what is your plan to make sure the world knows this information?
> >>> Will you be going on the Sunday talk shows to discuss with Dick Cheney
> >>> the failures in the Bush administration and what you would do to
> >>> correct the failures of the Bush Administration?
> >>
> >> Nope. But then, I don't consider it a failure of the Bush administration
> >> that Hussein managed to smuggle the WMDs out of the country before or
> >> slightly
> >> after the invasion.
> >
> >That's why everyone knows you as Alderloon.
> >
> >
>
> His world has a certain stress related flavor that most of the lunatic
> fringe lacks. He seems to know that he is writing complete nonsense
> yet cannot stop himself because it is all he can muster against those
> that he hates with such passion.
> --
> Roz

Roz's world has a certain stress related flavor that most of the lunitic
Gay caballers lack. He/she/it seems to know that "it" is writing
complete nonsense - yet cannot stop "itself" because it is all "it" can
muster against those "it" FEARS will include him/her in the Novins
Law Suit.

Roz, you have ALL my pity for being so fearfull !!
--
Your Pal,
HJ

p.s. Help (process server) is on the way....never fear !!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 45 ACP ammo
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3bb9af572b42249c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 9:02 am
From: "Steve B"

>>>>>> Gunner, who collected (3) 5gallon buckets full of wheel weights
>>>>>> today.
>>>>>> Offered and gave the guy $10 for about 300 lbs..maybe 400 lbs of good
>>>>>> clean used wheel weights. Because they will become Illegal in
>>>>>> California on Jan 1st.

What is the reasoning behind that?

Steve

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 9:20 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

Steve B wrote:
>>>>>>> Gunner, who collected (3) 5gallon buckets full of wheel weights
>>>>>>> today.
>>>>>>> Offered and gave the guy $10 for about 300 lbs..maybe 400 lbs
>>>>>>> of good clean used wheel weights. Because they will become
>>>>>>> Illegal in California on Jan 1st.
>
> What is the reasoning behind that?
>

They won't be illegal in California.

Under the settlement, Chrysler will end the use of factory-installed lead
wheel weights in vehicles sold in California by July 31, 2009. In addition,
wheel-weight producer Plombco Inc. of Canada will end shipments of lead
wheel weights to California by the end of this year. Producers Perfect
Equipment Inc. and Hennessey Industries, both based in LaVergne, Tenn., will
stop shipments to California by the end of 2009.

"We are pleased that the court has approved settlement of this matter so
that we can move forward with our aggressive plans to eliminate the use of
lead wheel weights in our products," a Chrysler spokesman said. "By the end
of this month, we expect that all of the vehicles we produce will be
equipped with wheel weights made from alternate materials -- 11 months ahead
of the schedule set in the settlement agreement in California."

Lead wheel weights have been under attack for several years by
environmentalists. They were banned by the European Union in 2005 and are
being phased out in Japan and Korea. The U.S. Environmental Protection
Agency is sponsoring a voluntary initiative to reduce the use of lead wheel
weights but has not banned them.

Goodyear and other big tire makers are already phasing them out, as are all
the major automakers.

"For environmental reasons, this is the direction the industry is going,"
said a spokesman for Goodyear, which has 83 company-owned tire stores in
California.

http://www.ceh.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=323&Itemid=243

--
John R. Carroll

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hobart Beta Mig
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/cd543c98a60480e4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 9:23 am
From: stans4@prolynx.com

On Dec 27, 6:10 pm, oldjag <msmith5...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Got a Hobart 250 amp Beta Mig from Craigs list for 100 bucks. Owner
> had two, and didn't know why this one stopped working. Got it home and
> it turns out it was just a broken wire on one of the control relays.
> Now it seems to work fine, but the tap selector switch is very stiff
> to turn, so I opened it up. The switch contacts look fine, but the
> inside is coated with some type of grease which has gotten very
> stiff. I guess the grease helped lube the switch to prevent corrosion
> and keep it free moving. I've cleaned out the old grease and am
> thinking of using Silicone spark plug contact grease or some thick Dow
> Silicone "O" ring lube that I have. I'm hoping the wiping action of
> the contacts will clear the contacts enough to allow good contact.
> The old grease dissolved in solvent very quickly, so it don't think
> the original grease was silicone based. The contacts are 1/8" thick by
> 3/4" wide bare copper strips in a housing about 6" diameter. Anyone
> try this on switch contacts for low voltage? The Silicone is a bitch
> to remove if this does not work..
>
> Thanks

That silicone dielectric grease is strictly for keeping HV from
tracking, it's not lube and not for contacts. O-ring lube is generally
meant for rubber to plastic or rubber to metal, not metal to metal.
Somewhere I've got a tube of GE contact grease meant for big switch
equipment that my dad rescued at one job site. So the right stuff is
out there, if you can find it. It's amber in color and reminds me of
the old-style wheel-bearing grease. Probably white lithium would work
as well, it's non-conductive. Easy to get off, too.

Stan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Cash for Cloture" under scrutiny!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/a9478ad3805a80b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Dec 28 2009 9:45 am
From: F. George McDuffee

On Sun, 27 Dec 2009 19:58:40 -0500, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:
<huge snip>
>No, I don't think there are more than a sub percentage of the population that understands
>it. That is scary enough.
>
>It would have been better to take small steps and work out the kinks but that would take
>too long and the grip on power may be to short for those pushing the current agenda.
<snip>
================

Indeed, and this is not limited to "health care." Historically
this has been a problem in that the "powers that be" become
excessively good at preventing small incremental changes to the
point to where enough pressure builds up and there is an
explosion. Two examples are the French and Russian revolutions.

Delay is not the same thing as prevention.

Unka George

(George McDuffee)

The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

==============================================================================

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Monday, December 28, 2009

rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 13 topics - digest

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