twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 14 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sellstrom vs. Harbor Freight auto helmets
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/79a3ac4d57235276?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:05 am
From: Ignoramus10756

I have come across a Sellstrom automatic welding helmet. This is a
fixed shade 10 model, narrow view port.

Comparing it with a Harbor Freight helmet, I think that my HF helmet
(I actually have two, one for me and one for my son) is not really any
worse in any respect. The HF helmet has adjustable shade. Also the
Sellstrom has a funny button that needs to be pressed to activate the
automatic feature, and the HF one "just works".

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:29 am
From: cncmillgil

On Dec 30, 10:05 am, Ignoramus10756 <ignoramus10...@NOSPAM.
10756.invalid> wrote:
> I have come across a Sellstrom automatic welding helmet. This is a
> fixed shade 10 model, narrow view port.
>
> Comparing it with a Harbor Freight helmet, I think that my HF helmet
> (I actually have two, one for me and one for my son) is not really any
> worse in any respect. The HF helmet has adjustable shade. Also the
> Sellstrom has a funny button that needs to be pressed to activate the
> automatic feature, and the HF one "just works".
>
> i

What shade of lens should be used for mig welding?
I bought my son a HF chicago elec. mig & helmet for christmas. I
noticed on American Chopper, the guys just using yellow sunglasses?

Thx.

~g~

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:33 am
From: "Bob La Londe"

"Ignoramus10756" <ignoramus10756@NOSPAM.10756.invalid> wrote in message
news:LbOdnQFjV6bY56bWnZ2dnUVZ_r6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> I have come across a Sellstrom automatic welding helmet. This is a
> fixed shade 10 model, narrow view port.
>
> Comparing it with a Harbor Freight helmet, I think that my HF helmet
> (I actually have two, one for me and one for my son) is not really any
> worse in any respect. The HF helmet has adjustable shade. Also the
> Sellstrom has a funny button that needs to be pressed to activate the
> automatic feature, and the HF one "just works".

I have two HF Automatic Helmets. Both "just work" as you put it. The
cheaper one was a gift from a friend for doing multiple repairs on his boat
trailer. He breaks it, and I fix it. The one thing I do not care for with
the more expensive one is it takes a substantial time to go light again
(almost a full second) after the arc shuts off. If I am doing stacked tac
welds on light sheet metal this can be a big pain in the wazoo.

Anyway, both of my HF autos work so well I can not imagine using anything
else. The plastic lens shield does seem to cludge up with smoke and spatter
more easily than my old helmet, but I can live with that. My old one is so
old the shield is glass I think.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cool Metal Working Video: Building The Worlds Largest Truck
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/062d40b0ac60eb39?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:09 am
From: Ignoramus10756

On 2009-12-30, David R.Birch <dbirch@wi.rr.com> wrote:
> dav1936531@nowhere.invalid wrote:
>> This video is about 43 minutes long, but is well worth watching. It
>> shows the construction process involved in building those huge
>> Catapiller dump trucks used at open pit mines around the world. In
>> this case, the end user is the Canadian tar sands mining project.
>>
>> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=273_1261968255

Thanks Dave. I have watched all of it.

Kind of amazing.

Welding of one of those truck frames, takes 275 lbs of MIG wire.

>
> Those trucks are kinda puny compared to the P&H shovels we make parts for:
>
><http://www.phmining.com/PHMining/Mining-Equipment/Electric-Shovels/4100XPC.htm>
>
> No cool videos, though.

There is actually a lot of videos of this shovel on Youtube.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How many guns are out there...really?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0a32d0ccda83a766?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:18 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hhfqp6$ijq$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> With the present admin disregard for the Constitution, I'm
> concerned that something is going on. I just got a JPFO
> email, drawing a parallel to the collapse of Argentina. I
> can see that happening, here.

Which Argentina crash are they talking about? <g> I assume 1989. That was
the big one. They surely aren't talking about today, because Argentina is in
better economic health than most of the world, with a projected growth rate
of 7% for 2010.

I think JPFO is nuts. And I don't mean just on this issue. I worked with
them in 1991 - 1993, fighting gun-control legislation, and they were just
weird.

On this issue: Inflation in Argentina in 1989 was 3,000%. In the United
States now, it's 1.6% (C-CPI-U). What JPFO is talking about, I can't
imagine.

--
Ed Huntress

>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4b3a5460$0$4971$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>
>
> I see no evidence of nefariousness. All of the "world
> government" paranoia
> I've heard for at least 30 years has fallen flat. It seems
> absurd to me to
> assume that Obama, or federal agencies, are trying to turn
> over the US
> government to the UN, or Interpol, or anyone else. That IS
> conspiracy
> thinking, and it's an attitude, not a reality.
>
>
>
>

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:02 am
From: rangerssuck

On Dec 29, 11:08 am, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>
> news:DMm_m.422301$Xw3.99697@en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com...
>
>
>
> > "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >>It's hard to imagine farms in Lodi. I used to work in Saddle Brook, right
> >>up
> >>the street. No farms now, pard'.
>
> > Oh, by the time we were visiting, the farm was long gone. As I said, they
> > didn't read and
> > the notice that their property was going up on tax sale was not
> > understood. Grandma in a
> > small house on a remaining bit of the property. The date they had the
> > farm was most likey
> > in the 1920's.
>
> > Wes
>
> Yeah, the '20s sound reasonable. Lodi is in that packed area of population
> that makes NJ the most densely populated state in the nation. I'm on the
> extreme southern edge of that sprawl. A mile from my house is a county park
> with a small lake that's completely surrounded by development. But when my
> uncle moved here, in 1948, he used to hunt rabbits with his beagle and
> his12-guage, down in that swamp that is now a lake.
>
> It's sad to hear about you're family's little farm. Bad things happen like
> that.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress

My brother lives on 2 acres in Monmouth County. When he moved there 20
or so years ago, he was surrounded by woods. Now he's surrounded by
townhouses.

I just had a talk with a guy who owns one of the last remaining farms
in New Paltz, NY. He said the neighbors give him poisonous looks,
wishing he would sell so they could build more McMansions.

Every time I drive through Sussex County, NJ, I'm saddened by the
declining number of farms and the increasing number of huge houses.

And they call that "progress."

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:27 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"rangerssuck" <rangerssuck@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7d6cd23f-58d5-4640-8b6c-e8399742d680@z7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 29, 11:08 am, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>
> news:DMm_m.422301$Xw3.99697@en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com...
>
>
>
> > "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> >>It's hard to imagine farms in Lodi. I used to work in Saddle Brook,
> >>right
> >>up
> >>the street. No farms now, pard'.
>
> > Oh, by the time we were visiting, the farm was long gone. As I said,
> > they
> > didn't read and
> > the notice that their property was going up on tax sale was not
> > understood. Grandma in a
> > small house on a remaining bit of the property. The date they had the
> > farm was most likey
> > in the 1920's.
>
> > Wes
>
> Yeah, the '20s sound reasonable. Lodi is in that packed area of population
> that makes NJ the most densely populated state in the nation. I'm on the
> extreme southern edge of that sprawl. A mile from my house is a county
> park
> with a small lake that's completely surrounded by development. But when my
> uncle moved here, in 1948, he used to hunt rabbits with his beagle and
> his12-guage, down in that swamp that is now a lake.
>
> It's sad to hear about you're family's little farm. Bad things happen like
> that.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress

>My brother lives on 2 acres in Monmouth County. When he moved there 20
>or so years ago, he was surrounded by woods. Now he's surrounded by
>townhouses.
>
>I just had a talk with a guy who owns one of the last remaining farms
>in New Paltz, NY. He said the neighbors give him poisonous looks,
>wishing he would sell so they could build more McMansions.
>
>Every time I drive through Sussex County, NJ, I'm saddened by the
>declining number of farms and the increasing number of huge houses.
>
>And they call that "progress."

I call it "sprawl."

My parents' last house in Princeton (actually in Rocky Hill) was surrounded
by woods and farms, as late at the late '70s. I could walk to Rock Brook,
which was a trout stream in the spring. Now it's all developments. If you
live long enough, I guess you see it everywhere.

There are no chickens anymore, in the neighborhood where I was born in
Vineland, either. There are still lots of low-roofed houses, though, if you
know what I mean. d8-) (Chicken coops converted into houses)

--
Ed Huntress

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:45 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Dec 30, 12:02 pm, rangerssuck <rangerss...@gmail.com> wrote:
> ...
> I just had a talk with a guy who owns one of the last remaining farms
> in New Paltz, NY. He said the neighbors give him poisonous looks,
> wishing he would sell so they could build more McMansions.

Might be interesting to survey those neighbors opinions on the loss of
the rain forests.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:56 am
From: verysorry@nocando.com (Pinstripe Sniper)

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Plastic gun to take on the plane, maybe?

<pssst> Stormin Mormon - it's a vodka bottle. I know you aren't
allowed. :-)

PsS

--------------------------------------------------------------------
A fictional account of how to drastically reform the financial world...
More at http://PinstripeSniper.blogspot.com and if that gets banned, check
www.PinstripeSniper.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 45 ACP ammo
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3bb9af572b42249c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:22 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

Stormin Mormon wrote:
> I just hate it when I take my boots off, and find a half
> dozen wheel weights.
>
> So, where is all the lead before it's mined, and smelted,
> and molded into wheel weights? Not in the environment, I
> hope?

Right next to all of the Uranium that isn't in the environment either.
LOL

--
John R. Carroll

==============================================================================
TOPIC: First Thing I Ever Turned
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/a3d17b6c3b4092d8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:36 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Hummingbird feeder, of course? (There is a story behind that
comment....)

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Jesse" <jrb65@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3411ca4b-f0db-460b-a8c1-a82b7aa81aac@m25g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...

The first thing I tried turning on a lathe got confiscated
by my high
school shop teacher. He didn't buy my explaination that I
was just
trying to see what all a lathe could do. All I had left was
a little
bit more turning and the addition of a screen. ;-) I sure
am glad I
survived the 70's.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:40 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

My first lathe project was in high school, making a screw
driver handle. Which actually was some what useful. The
screw driver ended up fitting the radiator petcocks at home.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Bob La Londe" <nospam@nospam.no> wrote in message
news:hhbv9s$913$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Ok, I am ridiculously satisfied with myself at the moment.
I took a
perfectly good stainless steel bolt and turned it into a
worthless example
of Vise Grip activity.

Santa brought a mini lathe to the La Londe household.
Unfortunately the fat
bastidge didn't bring any tooling. Wanting desperately to
play with the new
toy I cleaned all the grease off today and then began to
think about
different things I might use as a cutter. I can tell you
definitively and
with authority that a stainless steel bolt is harder than a
cheap cold
chisel. LOL.

HOWEVER, a broken 3/8 HSS end mill can be turned into a
crude mill bit by
liberal free hand application of a bench grinder and
quenching periodically
in oil as it takes shape. I then proceeded to turn a
perfectly good 2
dollar bolt into 10¢ worth of scrap stainless. I managed to
turn the head
into a nice cylinder, and even face the end square to the
sides before my
home made cutter got too dull because I pushed it too fast.
OOooh! AAaaah!

So what was the first thing you ever turned on a metal
lathe?

I have used a wood lathe to duplicate spindles and made
dowels in my drill
press in a pinch, but that was a whole different experience.
I am entirely
too satisfied with myself.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 8:41 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Probably a couple decades later, resulted in the arrest of
the new owner by ATF.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:WOOdnZZt_M1jO6fWnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@earthlink.com...

Since I started using a lathe when about 8 years old and am
66 now, can not
remember the first thing I turned, but I do remember turning
a bunch of
cannons. Using 1.5" Round stock, making them look like a
cannon, boring out
to 5/16" so the 5/16 Ball bearings we had would work, and
making a breech
lock out of a large bolt. The bolt would take a
firecracker, or gunpowder
and a JetX fuse for propellent. Worked very well. Wonder
what happened to
them.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: My New Year Resolutions
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/554a4e1f079a9fa3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:03 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

I think you've got a good list. I avoid new year
resolutions. For me, they only last a couple days at best.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Steve B" <deserttraver@fishmail.net> wrote in message
news:undn07-ida2.ln1@news.infowest.com...
1. Do more fishing.
2. Spend more time with my wife.
3. Spend more time in my shop doing actual metalworking.
4. Quit biting on OT trolls in this group.
5. Staying on topic.
6. Clean up my language in this group. My vocabulary is
much more
extensive than I demonstrate, and I can convey the same
message with
different words.
7. Avoid political comments here. It's not important that
people know what
I think or agree with me. Reality will prevail.
8. Volunteer more.
9. Help people who need help.
10. Live the life I have left in me so as not to waste any
time.

Hope everyone has a good coming year.

Steve

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Aviation Week - Annual Photo Issue
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fe05ef21930ee957?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:16 am
From: Jim Chandler

boeing is going to be doing the flight testing of the 787 right in my
backyard. They will be testing at Southern California Logistics
Airport, the old George AFB (I retired from there in 1988). I know,
it's a stupid name for an airport, but what do you expect from a bunch
of politicians (City of Victorville)? It will be great to see it
flying around.

Jim

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:25:52 -0800, Jim Stewart <jstewart@jkmicro.com>
wrote:

>Ed Huntress wrote:
>> "Pinstripe Sniper" <verysorry@nocando.com> wrote in message
>> news:4b3a520f.47926328@news.flex.com...
>>> Many aeroplane parts are still made from metal. :-)
>>>
>>> I had a flip through the annual airplane picture issue yesterday.
>>> Here's an online version.
>>> http://aviationweek.com/aw/photos/gallerylist.jsp
>>>
>>> My shallow thought was "what a great job it must be to be a pro
>>> aviation photographer - while it must take a while to build the
>>> credibility and connections, I imagine they get to ride in military
>>> aircraft often and FOR FREE! I wonder if that gets boring?"
>
>I passed the "swimsuit" issue around the office.
>Also a great article on the first fight of the
>787.
>
>> I used to work for _Aviation Week_, then called _Aviation Week and Space
>> Technology_, as a circulation manager (I personally handled the subscription
>> for the Shah of Iran. Little did I know...). The editors loved working
>> there, both the ones in Washington and those in New York; they were almost
>> giddy about their jobs.
>
>Wasn't it informally known as "Aviation Leak and Space
>Technology" back then?
>
>> Later, one of my buddies moved from _American Machinist_, where we were both
>> editors, to _AW_, three floors above my office. We had a friendly
>> competition going for a couple of years, trying to out-scoop each other on
>> new engine developments at Pratt & Whitney and GE.
>>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: JPFO alert
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/927eef680ab35013?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:28 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

ALERT FROM JEWS FOR THE PRESERVATION OF FIREARMS OWNERSHIP
America's Aggressive Civil Rights Organization

December 29th 2009

JPFO ALERT: AMERICAS, JUAN AND EVITA?

Are all the elements in place for a dictatorship in America?

Come to the JPFO site today and view our presentation ,
"Don't Cry
For Me, America" -
http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/argentina.htm

After looking at the presentation, re-read our previous open
letter
to the United States Congress -
http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/congress-open-letter.htm
- and
please give very serious thought to America's future.

Don't forget to share your comments with us so we can share
them
with our supporters.

Your continued support is much appreciated.

This alert, on JPFO -
http://www.jpfo.org/alerts03/alert20091229.htm

If you like what we do for you, then please support us. It
is less
than 7c a day, only $25 a year -
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/member.htm

The Liberty Crew
Protecting you by creating solutions to destroy "gun
control"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(If your email program does not recognize a URL as a link,
copy the
entire URL and paste it into your Web browser.)

FREE DVD copy of "2A Today for The USA" with a one year
membership
and FREE copies one each of "2A" and "No Guns for Negroes"
with a
two year membership, join or renewal -
http://shop.jpfo.org/cart.php?m=product_list&c=4 - plus
now
also within this offer, get your JPFO "Conversation Starter"
mug
included as well for the discount price of just $12.95
extra.

Learn about "The Ten Commandments of Self Defense" -
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/10c.htm

Don't forget JPFO's current "Multitasker" offer - order one
and
receive a FREE DVD. ORDER TODAY... Limited quantities -
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/multitasker.htm

You can give the gift of freedom, and it's free. Email this
link -
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/2a-today-download.htm -
widely and
make copies of "2A Today for the USA" to give away - go
there
right now. The message and information in this definitive
film is
possibly the only significant way you can do something
active to
protect your free right of gun ownership. Now also, include
this
same approach for "No Guns for Negroes" -
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ngn-download-view.htm

Use our latest handbills -
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/freebies.htm - this includes
our
latest additions.

Remember to check out all JPFO's movies -
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/movies.htm

Please support JPFO with donations, memberships and purchase
of
our materials ( http://shop.jpfo.org/ ) - so we can continue
to
provide you with these alerts and defend your rights.
JPFO Membership form -
http://www.jpfo.org/pdf02/memb-form.pdf
JPFO On line secure membership sign up -
http://shop.jpfo.org/cart.php?m=product_list&c=4
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PS - Visit our alert archive / sign up to receive email
alerts -
http://www.jpfo.org/alerts.htm
(Please - if you receive these and do not want
them,
use the unsubscribe option in the email footer,
we do not wish to spam anyone.)

====================================================
If your email program does not recognize a URL as a link,
copy the entire URL and paste it into your Web browser.

Remember, JPFO annual membership only costs 7c a day - go
to -
http://www.jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/member.htm

New! - need help with links,downloads, file saves etc?
Check out our help page -
http://www.jpfo.org/articles-assd/jpfo-help.htm

~~~ JPFO mirror site: http://www.jpfo.net ~~~

=====================================================

Box 270143,Hartford ,WI 53027, USA

==============================================================================
TOPIC: But I thought tree give off carbon dioxide
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/59356f59de5b6bed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:46 am
From: Dan

dcaster@krl.org wrote:
> On Dec 30, 3:03 am, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>> <dcas...@krl.org> wrote:
>
>> That's why they are referred to as "carbon sinks"
>
> So a temporary capture of CO2 is a sink. What does one call a
> permanent capture of CO2?
>
> Dan

In nature, nothing is permanent.

Before humans, a significant sink was gas, oil, and coal...

Dan

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 10:08 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 21:16:30 -0600, the infamous "Alfred Pennyworth"
<Alfred@waynemansion.bs> scrawled the following:

>
>
>"Lib Loo" <heezback@crazymother.kom> wrote in message
>news:hheeb7$9o3$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>>
>> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <paul@hovnanian.com> wrote in message
>> news:yPOdnfKXuLegMqfWnZ2dnUVZ_gKdnZ2d@posted.isomediainc...
>>> Lib Loo wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/dec/29/forests-vs-food-study-worries-agriculture-chief/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Plan to turn farms into forest worries Obama official
>>>>
>>>> By Edward Felker
>>>>
>>> [snip]
>>>>
>>>> "That's one of the realities of cap-and-trade legislation. The biggest
>>>> bang for your buck for carbon credits is planting trees," she said.
>>>
>>> That's an issue with the structure of the credits and regulations, not
>>> the
>>> science.
>>>
>>> The problem with trees is that they only soak up carbon until the forrest
>>> reaches maturity. Then they are carbon neutral. If you can go in and cut
>>> the trees down before they get old, the carbon removed from the
>>> environment is equal to the carbon hauled out of the forrest on logging
>>> trucks.
>>>
>>> But people become emotionally attached to trees and try to keep them
>>> around
>>> long after they've stopped soaking up CO2.

Hehehe. Sounds like my neighbor's prized cherry tree died. It died 30
years ago but she won't cut it down. All branches but one have rotted
off. It's 9' tall with a 5" max diameter.

>> What kind of tree do you think Obama is?
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_X2Xd1iOmM
>
>Tree? He's less than a shrub, some sort of low growing weed.

Himalayan Blackberry, a type which (theory) promises nice treats but
(reality) ends up growing far beyond its means and ripping you to
shreads every time you deal with it closely.

Typical Demonrat.

--
It's a shallow life that doesn't give a person a few scars.
-- Garrison Keillor

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A One-Trick Pony?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7f184734440e6ec5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:49 am
From: Dan

Lib Loo wrote:

Dan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Suburbanite shoots two home invasion suspects
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/4a2d826a10ae8bcd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:41 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 08:51:50 -0600, RBnDFW <burkheimer@gmail.com> wrote:

>Gunner Asch wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:48:11 -0600, RoyJ <spamless@microsoft.net> wrote:
>>
>>>> Might have helped to make sure they were at the right house before
>>>> forcing their way inside, eh? A small mistake, exacerbated by a large
>>>> dose of aggression, nearly got them killed.
>>> Our local cops did that in the middle of the night to some non English
>>> speaking folks. Wrong address, bashed in the door, ransacked the house,
>>> homeowner was barricaded in the bedroom with his kids, started blasting
>>> away with a shotgun. Cops took a bit of splintered wood from the bird
>>> shot but no one was seriously hurt, no one was charged. Police chief
>>> gave the cops medals for their valor under fire. Mayor took the medals
>>> back after folks pointed out that the homeowner was within his right to
>>> blast away and that the cops did not verify the address.
>>
>>
>> Indeed.
>>
>> Thats the leading cause of death among homeowners who are approched by
>> Swat and other "special cops"
>>
>> The innocent home owner is awakened at 11pm by busting wood and
>> shouting..grabs a gun and fires on the first armed figure coming through
>> the bedroom door at a charge.
>>
>> Sometimes the stupid cops kill both in the bed.
>>
>> http://www.cato.org/raidmap/
>>
>> One of my favorite and obvious clusterfucks..and attempted rip off of an
>> honest citizen is that of Donald Scott
>>
>>
>> http://www.fear.org/scott15.html
>>
>> http://www.fear.org/victimindex.html
>
>Interesting information....and distressing.
>
>thanks for posting

The 1990s were the worst period of time for such buffoonery. In
fact..most small police departments had their own SWAT teams..all bent
on "control" and income generation. The vast majority of those
departments no longer have their SWAT teams..long gone and they depend
on one from a County agency..and they are much better trained.

The costs of such bullshit made them far far too expensive for small
departments to fund both in crediblity, operability, and in lawsuits
generated.

And the increased numbers of privately owned firearms has had a
significant effect on such actions. Along with the reduction of the
crime rate in the US since the 90s.

So as a homeowner..one is far safer today from both rogue departments
fuckups and criminals in general.

More guns, Less Crime....has proven to be exceptionally accurate.

Gunner

"I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the
means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not
making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of
it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different
countries, that the more public provisions were made for the
poor the less they provided for themselves, and of course became
poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the
more they did for themselves, and became richer." -- Benjamin
Franklin, /The Encouragement of Idleness/, 1766

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:42 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 09:01:03 -0600, Ignoramus10756
<ignoramus10756@NOSPAM.10756.invalid> wrote:

>On 2009-12-30, RBnDFW <burkheimer@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> One of my favorite and obvious clusterfucks..and attempted rip off of an
>>> honest citizen is that of Donald Scott
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.fear.org/scott15.html
>>>
>>> http://www.fear.org/victimindex.html
>>
>> Interesting information....and distressing.
>>
>> thanks for posting
>
>Most everything I have read about Donald Scott is that the raid was
>set up intentionally so that he would be likely to be killed, as
>the local government wanted his land.
>
>i

Correct. Which speaks volumes about the agencies themselves.

Gunner

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Palin Wins Inagural Award!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0ea290197ad1982a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:45 am
From: Deucalion

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 07:48:07 -0700, wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:

>On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 00:43:00 -0500, Deucalion <someone@nowhere.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 14:31:34 -0700, wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 12:38:55 -0500, Deucalion <someone@nowhere.net>
>>>wrote:
>
>>can you think of another descriptor and point me to
>>another newsgroup where I can associate with those like myself? I
>>have seriously considered the homesteading newsgroup although my very
>>small place doesn't really fit in with what they do either.
>
>You don't need a title, I've never used one. Somebody once accused me
>of being a pioneer <chuckle> so I had to correct him.

I've never really considered myself a "survivalist." Where I was
raised, what I do these days was just a part of everyday living. Most
everyone that we knew did it. My childhood memories include evenings
sitting on the front porch with extended family in the evenings
shelling butter beans or snapping.stringing peas until it got too dark
to see anymore. Cool mornings blanching for freezing or canning the
produce from three fairly large gardens. Plowing with a mule on cool
Saturday mornings. Fishing next to the small damn that had been used
to power the small cotton mill nearby in years past. Hunting during
the fall and winter on neighbors property or one of the largest game
lands in the state.

That was just a part of growing up in a very rural area in what was
back then considered a very poor state back then. We were happy and I
have very fond memories from that time frame. Having been raised
poor, we simply didn't do things that didn't profit us in some way.
Such luxuries simply could not be afforded. In retrospect, it seems
that everything that we did had some kind of a cost benefit.

>
>I thought there'd be lots of overlap with off-gridding in the
>survivalist groups, but there rarely is. It's no better in the
>homepower groups, between the spam and the talkers and the nitwits the
>groups are barely worth scanning.

I have been looking at some passive solar for heat, but I haven't
gotten around to doing anything about it just yet. The wife has just
recovered from her bout with brain cancer enough that she can work a
part time job. Budget constraints eliminated all of my overtime for a
while, so times have been tight around here for a while. However, she
is working a day or two a week these days and I'm getting a little
overtime these days. Things are looking up.

It's too late in the season for passive solar to do much for us right
now. Perhaps next year I can work up a few small units to mount under
the east and west facing windows. We have both lived completely
without electricity in our past. So, it's not a survival issue should
we have to do it again. I have to admit that I wouldn't want to do it
again though. Especially not at my age.
>
>
>>>PS Pic of a portion of my emergency rations :-)
>>>http://www.citlink.net/~wmbjk/images/emergencyrations.jpg
>>
>>That's a nice small herd. Is it really yours? My hope is to get
>>enough stored food to approximate what's recommended in that radical
>>publication called the "Ball Blue Book." That should be enough to
>>meet any needs that may come our way.
>
>We lease the grazing rights on our property to a rancher whose
>operation covers <wild guess> >500k acres. The cattle in the pic are
>part of probably 50-100 head that were driven into the high end of the
>canyon about a mile away. It's all open range here, and we water
>whatever wanders or is put onto our place. We have about a dozen right
>now, it could be none or 50 next time I look out. When there's more
>than half a dozen we maintain a larger trough about a half mile from
>the house. When there's too many we cut off the water for a couple
>days and most will go back to the water they were originally pointed
>to.

To me that is one of the key aspects of survivalism. Relationships
with family, neighbors, and community represent more about it than
stores of survival food tucked in the food pantry. While a lot of the
survivalists here view those who live around them with suspicion
thinking that they will be enemies when the "big one" comes, I think
of them as friends and assets with whom I will work together with to
recover from whatever comes our way.
>
>>I am fortunate to have a wife who is accustomed to cooking most
>>everything from pretty much scratch. She hates store bought canned
>>food and detests ready mixes/frozen dinners. She was absolutely
>>delighted when I got the chickens so that she doesn't have to worry
>>about all the hormones that she says gives the meat/eggs a funny taste
>>to her.
>>
>>She is my helpmeet, my companion, and my inspiration. I sincerely
>>hope that she outlives me because I'm not sure that life would be
>>worth living without her. Having come from a South American country,
>>she is much more of a survivalist than a lot of the people posting
>>here who claim to be one, but she just doesn't know it.
>
>We're mostly on the same page. We don't grow anything and do eat
>chicken when it's cheap though. We don't eat much meat and get most of
>what we do (including elk, yum) from the rancher. Our grocery bills
>are peanuts compared to most everyone we know personally. But we don't
>really do anything on account of possible emergency. Our normal
>routine is shopping once a week, and buying in bulk when that's
>sensible. Which means that we can easily hole up for two weeks and
>even longer with some suffering should it ever be necessary. Our only
>real risks are washed/snowed out roads and range fire. Heavy rain
>causes a major wash on the county road to run about 3 times per year.
>It seldom delays our normal routine more than a few days.

We have been fortunate for the past few years and have had no bad
weather worth mentioning. We did get about a foot of snow the week
before Christmas that pretty much locked everything down for a couple
of days. It may not be much by most people's standards, but a little
snow in the South goes a long ways towards disrupting travel and
shutting everything down. The local governments are not set up to
deal with it and it may be days before roads see any snow removal.

They are calling for freezing rain tonight, so I'm going to buy some
K-1 in a few minutes just in case the lights go out. Then I'm going
to clean out the chicken coop, put it on the garden, and cover the
ground around the beds with black plastic to try and eliminate weeding
next year. Doing any outside work is probably shot tomorrow due to
weather and I have to call in to see if they need me to work on my day
off.

Life is good. I admit that I looked at your other pics and it looks
pretty impressive. Best wishes for the new year.

>
>Wayne

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:59 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Deucalion" <someone@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:fumlj5h7m03bmjrps54kvld0mf3lo5l7c1@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:35:26 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Deucalion" <someone@nowhere.net> wrote in message
>>news:2vekj55ptj1vqp49mjvvq05fgokh7e5i6k@4ax.com...
>>> On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 11:49:09 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
>>> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Strabo" <strabo@flashlight.net> wrote in message
>>>>news:lgj_m.5683$5i2.5293@newsfe14.iad...
>>>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>>>> "Hawke" <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:hhc7jv$9cc$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>>>>>>> We have roughly a gun for every man, woman, and child in the US.
>>>>>>>>>>> How
>>>>>>>>>>> many gold-hoarding survivalists do you think there are?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> Ed Huntress
>>>>>>>>>> He wouldn't have to shoot all of them. Since you would be their
>>>>>>>>>> leader giving the orders, he would simply need to take you out
>>>>>>>>>> first.
>>>>>>>>>> The rest would then go take your stuff out of your house, and
>>>>>>>>>> claim
>>>>>>>>>> your women.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Huntress has nothing to fear from me. I only shoot home invaders.
>>>>>>>> Nobody would bother me. I have no gold, no canned water, and I'd
>>>>>>>> eat
>>>>>>>> the food here in less than a week. It's people like YOU they'd be
>>>>>>>> after. You'd be like the manager of an appliance store in the
>>>>>>>> middle
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> a city riot. d8-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I can't help but laugh when I hear "survivalists" blabbing about how
>>>>>>> all
>>>>>>> their plans to "make it" when the shit hits the fan are going to
>>>>>>> work.
>>>>>>> The line, famous last words comes to mind. Or no battle plan
>>>>>>> survives
>>>>>>> after contact with the enemy.
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not a battle plan. There is no strategy. It's simply
>>>>> preparation
>>>>> for hard times.
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > But what's even worse is what if there is no shit
>>>>>>> hits the fan? All the time, effort, and expense preparing for
>>>>>>> surviving
>>>>>>> winds up to be nothing but hoarding a lot of stuff they will never
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> any use for and all becomes just trash.
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>> Then one can eat his investment. Nothing is wasted, nothing is lost.
>>>>>
>>>>> The issue is why you are contentious, obnoxious and critical. If
>>>>> you don't see impending problems then leave those who do to their
>>>>> task.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>> > The U.S. has had a lot of stuff
>>>>>>> happen in the last 230 some years but it's still here and still as
>>>>>>> good
>>>>>>> a place to live as any. Betting it's all going to crumble is a
>>>>>>> sucker
>>>>>>> bet. It reminds me of an episode of the Twilight Zone where some
>>>>>>> thieves
>>>>>>> steal a whole lot of gold, go underground and put themselves in a
>>>>>>> kind
>>>>>>> of hibernation for a hundred years. Then when they wake up they find
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> gold has no value at all in the future. It makes me think of Gummer
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> Strabo. They put all kinds of eggs in a basket and when they need
>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>> they're rotten. The joke's on them, and always will be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Humor is a good thing when not making fun of others.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >
>>>>>>> Hawke
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, Strabo, Loo, and I are just funnin'. The hard core looks like
>>>>>> they're pursuing a kind of neurotic, but harmless, hobby. I think the
>>>>>> reality, though, is close to what I've said to Strabo: If there ever
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> a really serious crisis, and they were the ones with stuff, while no
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> else had any, they'd be the first to wind up being dog food. d8-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm all for the old Boy Scout motto of "Be Prepared," but I don't
>>>>>> think
>>>>>> this is what they had in mind.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hmmm, as an ex-Boy Scout, I'd say "Be Prepared" precisely defines
>>>>> survivalism.
>>>>
>>>>I think it's a matter of degree, and for some, a question of obsession.
>>>>When
>>>>it becomes obsessive and tied to apocolyptic visions, it also starts to
>>>>look
>>>>just like an anxiety disorder.
>>>>
>>>>But it also appears to be hobby-like for some of the misc.survivalism
>>>>folks,
>>>>a frame of mind and action that gives them some satisfaction, and
>>>>there's
>>>>nothing wrong with that.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As a practical matter, the circumstance of a meltdown will certainly
>>>>> point the 'have-nots' toward the 'haves' but this does not remove the
>>>>> moral obligation to prepare.
>>>>
>>>>It's really impossible to prepare -- except for the past.
>>>
>>> My preps are based on events that I have experienced such as
>>> hurricanes, ice storms, and loss of income for an extended period of
>>> time. When it comes to surviving meteor impacts, civil wars, societal
>>> collapse, etc., I know that survival in such situations is mostly a
>>> matter of luck and being in the right place.
>>>
>>> While I don't prepare for those kinds of events, my preps for known
>>> probable events does put me a ahead of a lot of the rest should the
>>> improbable occur.
>>>
>>> Some may call it obsessive or paranoia. I call it a lifestyle choice.
>>> A choice that has provided me a lot of pleasure over the years.
>>
>>That doesn't sound obsessive. Choosing rifle calibers and bullet weights
>>based on one's expectations of social collapse and anticipated enemy
>>maneuvers, ranges, and rates of fire is obsessive -- and a bit neurotic.
>><g>
>
> This is true. I've spent a few years here, actually about 10, trying
> to point this out to people. It just never seems to sink in though. A
> lot of the people who think like I think have grown disgusted over the
> years and moved on to other groups because they don't want to be
> associated with the riff-raff.
>
>>
>>What I was referring to with the quip above is the latter. It's one thing
>>to
>>recognize a pattern of events that encourages some preparation for things
>>that can reasonably be expected to occur. It's another to imagine the
>>details of a coming apocolypse and to gear one's life to fight a battle
>>unknown.
>
> Tell the truth though, don't you find a bunch of old men thinking that
> they can fend off mobs of hungry people alone funny? I know that I
> do.

Yes, it's funny. It's like cowboys and Indians for old farts. d8-)

>
>>
>>What you're describing sounds like the kind of
>>home-gardening-plus-chickens
>>(or sometimes rabbits) that was common where I was born, in the
>>agricultural
>>part of south Jersey. I wrung my first chicken neck at age 7, but we were
>>the only ones in the neighborhood without chickens -- my dad had enough of
>>hassling with them when he was growing up. I wouldn't have thought of your
>>description as "survivalism." I guess the term is pretty broad and
>>flexible.
>
> I don't think that I fit into any newsgroup description. Survivalism
> was a best fit for me. If I had a bigger place, I'd call myself a
> homesteader. We had a lot of posts about threat assessment quite a
> few years ago. Some of the people left here these days are incapable
> of doing a realistic one. They have told so many lies about
> themselves that I think they actually believe the utter bullshit they
> post. A good threat assessment requires an adequate perception of
> reality. They simply don't have it in them and their posts
> demonstrate it every day.
>
> Before those that I'm not talking about start thinking that I'm
> talking about them, if you are not in my kill file (or about to be
> there in a couple of days) it's not you that I'm talking about. There
> is one person that I filtered although he does provide sound advice on
> occasion, but he just became too cranky and a little fuzzy in his
> thinking lately.
>
> When I did my own threat assessment, I realized that loss of income,
> health crisis, tornado, hurricane, fire, and earthquake were the major
> threats that had the most likely hood of happening to me and I have
> planned accordingly either by buying insurance or doing my own
> preparations.
>
> In almost every case, the things that I have done not only break even
> in a few years, but actually provide a fair return on investment if I
> don't count my time as an expense. I don't count my time as an
> expense because I have found that I enjoy the things that I do and
> consider them hobbies.
>
>>
>>>
>>> You know, I may start me a spreadsheet this spring to see just how
>>> much my six (soon to be ten) 4x8 raised beds save me in money this
>>> year. I figure my three grape vines give me at least 50 dollars in
>>> grapes every years. Not bad for a $12 investment. I've got two
>>> cherry trees that were volunteers from the neighbor's tree. Cost
>>> nothing, but they haven't started producing yet. This is their third
>>> year, so perhaps this year I will get a few.
>>>
>>> I'm simply not seeing this financial loss the other poster projected.
>>
>>You're gardening for current use. If you were cold-smoking or jerking
>>strips
>>of house cat in your back yard, I'd call that survivalism. d8-)
>
> I'm not sure, but I think that the recipe is the same ;-)
>
> Yes, survivalists are painted with a very broad paint brush and you
> are right about there being elements of survivalism that I don't like
> being associated with. The egotists, the compulsive liars, and the
> deadbeats being among them. However, I have also found a few friends
> here who have helped me in my endeavors. To leave one is to leave the
> others.
>
> So, I rely on extensive filtering (about 70 percent of all posts) so I
> can ignore those who are here for nothing but lies, ego, and arguing
> so that I can still see the rest. It's the only solution that I've
> come up with so far.
>
> So, when one paints survivalists with the broad brush where we are all
> considered the riff-raff, I do like to remind them that there are
> those of us still here who merely advocate being prepared for things
> that we think are likely to happen to us based on what we feel is a
> well thought out threat assessment. Yes, the others are here, but we
> ain't them. However, in the newsgroups, we become fewer and fewer as
> attrition takes it toll.

I agree. Usenet is on its last legs, probably, and it's become the nesting
ground for an incredible number of cranks. Now I have little choice but to
start tuning out; this is my last week before plunging deep into a new, very
consuming project. Even working at home, I won't be able to indulge myself
here very much.

There are still some places to engage one's hobbies and interests, however.
On the advice of a friend who used to spend a lot of time here, but who is
long gone, I've been watching, but not participating in, a moderated Web
group on machining (American Machinist's old forum). It's really refreshing.
I also rejoined another Web group on an unrelated subject, on which I was a
moderator before there was a Web.

Anyway, get your seeds and your plans ready, spring will be here before you
know it. Call it survivalism or call it gardening, it's a lot healthier than
scheming about bullet selections for the imagined apocalypse. <g>

--
Ed Huntress

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 10:08 am
From: Deucalion

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 12:59:35 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
<huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:

>
>"Deucalion" <someone@nowhere.net> wrote in message
>news:fumlj5h7m03bmjrps54kvld0mf3lo5l7c1@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:35:26 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
>> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:

<snip>

>> So, when one paints survivalists with the broad brush where we are all
>> considered the riff-raff, I do like to remind them that there are
>> those of us still here who merely advocate being prepared for things
>> that we think are likely to happen to us based on what we feel is a
>> well thought out threat assessment. Yes, the others are here, but we
>> ain't them. However, in the newsgroups, we become fewer and fewer as
>> attrition takes it toll.
>
>I agree. Usenet is on its last legs, probably, and it's become the nesting
>ground for an incredible number of cranks. Now I have little choice but to
>start tuning out; this is my last week before plunging deep into a new, very
>consuming project. Even working at home, I won't be able to indulge myself
>here very much.
>
>There are still some places to engage one's hobbies and interests, however.
>On the advice of a friend who used to spend a lot of time here, but who is
>long gone, I've been watching, but not participating in, a moderated Web
>group on machining (American Machinist's old forum). It's really refreshing.
>I also rejoined another Web group on an unrelated subject, on which I was a
>moderator before there was a Web.
>
>Anyway, get your seeds and your plans ready, spring will be here before you
>know it. Call it survivalism or call it gardening, it's a lot healthier than
>scheming about bullet selections for the imagined apocalypse. <g>

Best wishes on your upcoming project and may you have a happy and
prosperous new year.. While we don't exactly share the same interests
and have met due to cross posting, I have enjoyed reading your posts.
They have given me much cause for reflection and insight.

I will miss reading your posts.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A holiday visit project
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/bc25feb7983514df?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 9:46 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Wed, 30 Dec 2009 06:08:05 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins <kb1dal@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Dec 30, 8:50�am, "Denis G." <guill...@gis.net> wrote:
>> On Dec 29, 11:51�pm, Don Foreman <dfore...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > A bit of metal content: �http://members.goldengate.net/dforeman/chandelier/
>>
>> Nice work! Not many metalworkers use nail polish. <g>
>
>Very nice, now does she understand how much you NEED that next tool?
>
>I don't intentionally put it on my fingers, but nail polish in black,
>white, red and clear is useful in the shop. The clear also stabilizes
>sewing repairs. I paint a white patch on bar stock for the label.
>
>jsw

And nail polish is a very good thread locker that will hold a bolt or
screw in an assembly such as a firearm, but is easy to remove.

Scope mounts on rifles for a single noteworthy example.

Gunner

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Fast, Fun Unclogging
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6aa33d0c47776611?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Dec 30 2009 10:03 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Tue, 29 Dec 2009 15:22:17 -0800, the infamous Winston
<Winston@bigbrother.net> scrawled the following:

>Larry Jaques was heard to opine:
>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 20:57:14 -0800, the infamous Winston
>> <Winston@bigbrother.net> scrawled the following:
>>
>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 13:51:41 -0800, the infamous Bruce L. Bergman
>>>> <bruceNOSPAMbergman@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 28 Dec 2009 11:20:46 -0800, Winston <Winston@bigbrother.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>
>(...)
>
>>> Aw, come on Larry. :)
>>> Was no more than ~120 F for about 10 seconds.
>>
>> OK, so it wasn't boiling water, just 180F. Still, pouring it in one
>> location (I'm sure you didn't just sprinkle it on top of the entire
>> pool)
>
>Quoting me from yesterday:
> "I poured down the middle of the existing water so's
> temperature moderated before hitting the bowl walls."

I didn't see that but it seems that the hot water getting down as fast
and as far as it could would be the smart usage. YMOV.

>I see no issue with doing this at my historical rate of once
>every 3 years. Call me crazy!

_Reckless_, more like. <bseg>

>> And since the wax ring area isn't underwater, it likely
>> wouldn't have received much of the heat, either. Flushing after it
>> cleared the clog cooled things down in a hurry, too. Have you checked
>> your ambient terlit water temps, Winnie? I'll bet they're cooler than
>> you think.
>
>Tank water would have equilibrated close to the surrounding air temperature
>over night. Call it say, 60 F.

So the honest answer to the question "Did you MEASURE?' is a
resounding "No."

House ambient: 69F
Terlit ambient: 55F (warmer than I expected)
Water ambient: 48F

>--Winston <-- Wants to think about something else

No shit? (Pardon my pun.)

--
It's a shallow life that doesn't give a person a few scars.
-- Garrison Keillor

==============================================================================

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Wednesday, December 30, 2009

rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 14 topics - digest

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