twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 9 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Casting a vote for common sense
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e945432ac4b473ee?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 8:21 am
From: Lewis Hartswick

Alfred Pennyworth wrote:
>
>
> No shit, look who got elected as President!

You beat me to it. :-)
...lew...

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 9:27 am
From: spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)

In article <4b48ab91$1@news.x-privat.org>, "Alfred Pennyworth" <Alfred@waynemansion.bs> wrote:
>
>
>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>news:smsgk5l84teq8fj0kcl6uo5mqguir46lvo@4ax.com...
>>
>>
> http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=327591ed-bdac-4f6
>c-8d4d-86effe5742cd
>> "Casting a vote for common sense"
>> [
>> Democracy is a messy business, unless you have the option of proroguing
>> it. But
>> barring that, whenever people get together to vote on something, bad
>> decisions
>> are made.
>> ]
>
>No shit, look who got elected as President!
>
Which election of the last six are you talking about ?!

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:15 am
From: Orval Fairbairn

In article <4b48ab91$1@news.x-privat.org>,
"Alfred Pennyworth" <Alfred@waynemansion.bs> wrote:

> "Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
> news:smsgk5l84teq8fj0kcl6uo5mqguir46lvo@4ax.com...
> >
> > http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/story.html?id=327591ed-bdac-4
> > f6c-8d4d-86effe5742cd
> > "Casting a vote for common sense"
> > [
> > Democracy is a messy business, unless you have the option of proroguing
> > it. But
> > barring that, whenever people get together to vote on something, bad
> > decisions
> > are made.
> > ]
>
> No shit, look who got elected as President!

Just remember:

Sleep tight tonight -- Obama and Napolitano are awake!

--
Remove _'s from email address to talk to me.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: USDA Climate Zone Changes 1990 to 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2c644d95a02f628e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 8:34 am
From: columbiaaccidentinvestigation

On Jan 9, 8:12 am, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com> wrote:" Coming from the *SNAKE OIL SALESMAN HIMSELF*"

dick cheney?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 9:57 am
From: Beam Me Up Scotty

On 1/9/2010 11:34 AM, columbiaaccidentinvestigation wrote:
> On Jan 9, 8:12 am, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
> dog.com> wrote:

" Coming from the *SNAKE OIL SALESMAN HIMSELF*"
>
>
> dick...

...head, otherwise known as Obama, is really mucking things up.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:10 am
From: columbiaaccidentinvestigation

On Jan 9, 9:57 am, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com> wrote:
> On 1/9/2010 11:34 AM, columbiaaccidentinvestigation wrote:
>
> > On Jan 9, 8:12 am, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
> > dog.com> wrote:
>
> " Coming from the *SNAKE OIL SALESMAN HIMSELF*"
>
>
>
> > dick...
>
> ...head, otherwise known as Obama, is really mucking things up.

na, the last administration left a pretty big mess (starting with
giving china a spy plane etc.), so it may take a while to clean things
up (partly because the current administration is receiving no real
help from the other party).

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:23 am
From: "HH&C"

On Jan 9, 11:12 am, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com> wrote:
> On 1/9/2010 8:01 AM, Cliff wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:42:23 -0500, Beam Me Up Scotty
> > <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-dog.com> wrote:
>
> >> On 1/8/2010 9:58 AM, Cliff wrote:
> >>> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 08:52:34 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
> >>> <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >>>> HH&C wrote:
>
> >>>>> On Jan 3, 5:53 am, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:44:57 -0500, Beam Me Up Scotty
>
> >>>>>>> In the last 30 years the orange/Citrus crop has moved more south-east in
> >>>>>>> Florida to get out of the freeze that kills the fruit trees. There was
> >>>>>>> huge groves in Orlando and now they are gone.
>
> >>>> Lake and Marion counties have a lot of decaying, empty packing houses
> >>>> as well.
>
> >>> Need some water to wash away the salt?
>
> >>>>>>> Look up the 1986-1989 freezes that killed entire groves.
>
> >>>>>>> Your idea of warming is not panning out.
>
> >>>>>> Facts are facts.
>
> >> Let me know when you have some.
>
> > You just have stale old long-debunked winger lies.
> > Give it up.
>
> >>>>>> Even if people sometimes do try to grow the wrong trees in
> >>>>>> the wrong places in the first place.
>
> >>>> Even though they were grown there for decades with little or no
> >>>> problem from freezing?
>
> >>> Naturally.
> >>> Did you think the trees were NATIVE to the area?
>
> >>>>>> And wingers lie anyway.
>
> >>>> Yes, and you should stop. All your ignorant lies are so obvious.
>
> >>> You can often get away with growing a crop for many years outside it's
> >>> native habitat.
> >>> Then sometimes you find out why it was not native there.
>
> >> You mean that is gets colder, instead of warmer? Odd that, that would
> >> happen amidst the Global Warming?
>
> >> The planet is Warmer everywhere except Orlando? How does that work,
> >> can you explain it to me?
>
> >> Call me a skeptic but, you'll need to prove that the Globe is actually
> >> warmer and then you need to show that I have caused it, before you can
> >> pass a law against it.
>
> > I note your flaming ignorance with some glee.
>
> Coming from the *SNAKE OIL SALESMAN HIMSELF* I take that as a great thing.
>
> I'll be using more CO2 fuels and warming the tar and plucking some
> feathers for the day we take care of You and Al Gore and send you out of
> town.

That's a good thing for Algore because it will mean more money in his
pocket
via the carbon tax, and that is the only thing this is about.

TAX

They view it like tithing in their religion.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Serious press fit
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/d1a444f85cb0de51?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 8:42 am
From: Joseph Gwinn

In article <4b47f8ef$0$31278$607ed4bc@cv.net>,
"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:

> "JR North" <junkjasonrnorth@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:8vsfk5dlafq8o8uc0qmvi59gkv96petpp9@4ax.com...
> > The stupidity of this design is mind-boggling. Import engines,
> > especially Toyota, all have slip-on dampeners, with a couple 10's
> > clearance. There is absolutely no need to have a press fit, except to
> > demonstrate their inability to machine the crank and dampener to such
> > close tolerance.
> > JR
> > Dweller in the cellar
>
> How do Toyota and others fix those dampeners to their shafts?
>
> One advantage of a press fit, especially for such heavily loaded joints as
> those between a flywheel and the shaft of a piston engine, is that there is
> no keyway to weaken the shaft and to produce a stress raiser in both mating
> parts. It's frustrating for those of us who like to repair things, but the
> big issue today, as we've all noticed, is not ease of repair. I wanted to
> strangle the nearest Korean last week when I had to replace a headlamp in my
> Hyundai, in a place that looked like it was intentionally designed to tear
> up your knuckles and to give you cramps in your fingers. <g>

Your hands are too big, I bet.

War story: In the early 1970s, a penurious friend asked me to repair
the lightmeter on her old Nikon (F1?). The repair was easy - just
solder the wire back onto the meter, and lace the wire down with waxed
dental floss so it wouldn't flop and break.

Then I tried to put the camera back together. No dice - fingers too
large. This brought to mind those advertising shots of the assembly
area, with ranks of benches each with a five-foot-nothing woman at work.
Their thumbs might be the size of my pinky. Laughed, took camera back
apart, lengthened the wires, and then was able to reassemble the camera.

Joe Gwinn

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 9:20 am
From: Joe Pfeiffer

JR North <junkjasonrnorth@bigfoot.com> writes:

> The stupidity of this design is mind-boggling. Import engines,
> especially Toyota, all have slip-on dampeners, with a couple 10's
> clearance. There is absolutely no need to have a press fit, except to
> demonstrate their inability to machine the crank and dampener to such
> close tolerance.
> JR
> Dweller in the cellar
>
>
> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 18:52:52 -0700, Joe Pfeiffer
> <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
>>"Karl Townsend" <karltownsend.NOT@embarqmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> The boat tranny took a dump. Its a ZF-301C behind a Cummins 450 horse
>>> diesel. Took a trip to the ZF repair shop yesterday. The front of this
>>> tranny has the flywheel transfer plate just press fit on - no key way. To
>>> remove the plate, they hooked it up to 50,000 psi oil pressure on a fitting
>>> in the plate just for this purpose. The interesting part, to press it back
>>> on they put it in a 60 ton press and used the same 50,000 psi fitting to
>>> increase the ID of the transfer plate. Interesting piece of German
>>> engineering. The mechanics there didn't know, but I assume each piece has a
>>> slight taper.
>>>
>>> Boat should run again tomorrow.
>>
>>Moving from boats to cars, one of the very few things I don't like about
>>modern Chrysler engines is the use of a press-fit for the crankshaft
>>pulley. Keyed pulleys are just incredibly easier to work with....

The weird thing there is that while Toyota gets the pulley right, in
general the 3.0 Toyota engine and the 1990 pickup it's installed in is
the miserable vehicle to work on that I've ever owned. My 2000 Intrepid
and 2007 Dakota are immeasurably better.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 9:49 am
From: spaco

Could you tell me a little more about WHERE the pressure was applied?
I could see simply pumping oil in between the shaft and the plate to get
it off, but that wouldn't work to get it back on.

Pete Stanaitis
----------------------
Karl Townsend wrote:
> The boat tranny took a dump. Its a ZF-301C behind a Cummins 450 horse
> diesel. Took a trip to the ZF repair shop yesterday. The front of this
> tranny has the flywheel transfer plate just press fit on - no key way. To
> remove the plate, they hooked it up to 50,000 psi oil pressure on a fitting
> in the plate just for this purpose. The interesting part, to press it back
> on they put it in a 60 ton press and used the same 50,000 psi fitting to
> increase the ID of the transfer plate. Interesting piece of German
> engineering. The mechanics there didn't know, but I assume each piece has a
> slight taper.
>
> Boat should run again tomorrow.
>
> Karl
>
>

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:08 am
From: Jon Anderson

Ed Huntress wrote:

> So it's a tradeoff. Which would you prefer? A car that you had to work on
> every two weeks, but which was easy to work on, or one that's a b**ch but
> almost never has to be touched until it gets old? If I can keep affording
> new cars every once in a while, maybe I'll stick with the latter. Otherwise,
> I'm going to find something old and cheap to fix, and call it my "hobby."

For the daily driver, reliability hands down. Got enough other 'stuff'
that needs doing. For a fun vehicle, being it a hot rod or 4x4, working
on it is just part of the game. Yeah, calling that a hobby works for me.

Jon

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:12 am
From: Jon Anderson

Wes wrote:

> Did you replace the timing belt every 20K miles?

After helping with the 'tuneup' and taking it for a spin, I never
touched it again... Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice...

Jon

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:13 am
From: Jon Anderson

Jon Anderson wrote:

> Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice...

LOL, got that backwards... But in retrospect and being aware of the Fix
It Again Tony acronym, it does sorta fit... <G>

Jon

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:43 am
From: Joe Pfeiffer

Jon Anderson <janders1957@comcast.net> writes:

> Ed Huntress wrote:
>
>> So it's a tradeoff. Which would you prefer? A car that you had to
>> work on every two weeks, but which was easy to work on, or one
>> that's a b**ch but almost never has to be touched until it gets old?
>> If I can keep affording new cars every once in a while, maybe I'll
>> stick with the latter. Otherwise, I'm going to find something old
>> and cheap to fix, and call it my "hobby."
>
> For the daily driver, reliability hands down. Got enough other 'stuff'
> that needs doing. For a fun vehicle, being it a hot rod or 4x4,
> working on it is just part of the game. Yeah, calling that a hobby
> works for me.

In the case of our Intrepid and Dakota, we get the best of both worlds.
They're easy to work on (aside from a few gaffes like that damned
press-fit pulley), and almost never need anything beyond routine
maintenance.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:49 am
From: "Pete C."

spaco wrote:
>
> Could you tell me a little more about WHERE the pressure was applied?
> I could see simply pumping oil in between the shaft and the plate to get
> it off, but that wouldn't work to get it back on.
>
> Pete Stanaitis

If you were to maintain the high pressure oil in the cavity (with a
relief valve) while pressing the part in with even higher pressure,
wouldn't the oil pressure tend to expand the opening as well as
lubricating it as the higher pressure press forced some oil back through
the relief valve? A bit like blowing pressure into a rubber hose to keep
it open while pressing a shaft into it. We tend not to think of big
hunks of metal being flexible, but if the pressure is high enough...

> ----------------------
> Karl Townsend wrote:
> > The boat tranny took a dump. Its a ZF-301C behind a Cummins 450 horse
> > diesel. Took a trip to the ZF repair shop yesterday. The front of this
> > tranny has the flywheel transfer plate just press fit on - no key way. To
> > remove the plate, they hooked it up to 50,000 psi oil pressure on a fitting
> > in the plate just for this purpose. The interesting part, to press it back
> > on they put it in a 60 ton press and used the same 50,000 psi fitting to
> > increase the ID of the transfer plate. Interesting piece of German
> > engineering. The mechanics there didn't know, but I assume each piece has a
> > slight taper.
> >
> > Boat should run again tomorrow.
> >
> > Karl
> >
> >

==============================================================================
TOPIC: to create a living mind
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/d25059791a6cc3a0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 9:04 am
From: technomaNge

Alfred Pennyworth wrote:
>
>
> "Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message

>> Professor Markram's 'Blue Brain' project, must rank as one of the most
>> extraordinary endeavours in scientific history.
>> ....
>>
> Maybe they could implant one into your head.

They can't put one into Cliffy's head until
they can make a bullshit-powered battery.

technomaNge
--
Due to anticipated high turnout in 2010's election,
the Electorial College has scheduled:

Nov. 1, 2010 All Independents vote.
Nov. 2, 2010 All Republicans vote.
Nov. 3, 2010 All Democrats vote.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Time to get tougher
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/857dcab3153330a8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 9:09 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Retief" <nospam@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:h2ahk5l8kum80k9r8ovijs7elcbpprdb4o@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 15:57:42 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>Maybe he's down with Strabo pawing through the National Archives, trying
>>to
>>figure out where they could have gone wrong.
>
> Apparently Ed and Parrot (aka Hawke) are sharing the same stupid
> pills. Or maybe they both sitting out back sniffing the dykem blue.
>
> The nature of the arguments from Huntress, Parrot and others makes it
> quite apparent that they really aren't interested in discussing the
> topic.

You made a foolish statement; then, when you realized it was a load of crap,
you started your Dance of the Winger, dodging and ducking all over your
dictionary.

But you haven't been able to answer the simple question about what you meant
by your original statement. That's because you can't. Like Strabo, you have
an imagined idea about what the Founders meant by a "republic" and
"democracy."

Chances are you never read the history you claim to know. That's typical of
"originalists," who think we've departed from the ideas of the Founders --
but they have little idea about what those ideas were.

Don't feel bad. I've seen this question come up online, and in personal
discussions, for over 20 years. None of the four-flushers who make
statements like yours can ever answer that question. That's because, once
the Founders' actual words are shown to them, along with a comment or two
from real historians, they realize that someone fed them a line and they
believed it, without taking the time to look for themselves.

Just so you have it firmly in your mind now, I'll refresh your memory about
the words of Madison and Jefferson on the subject:

"...A REPUBLIC, by which I mean a government in which the scheme of
representation takes place... -- Madison, Federalist 10

"It is, that in a DEMOCRACY, the people meet and exercise the government in
person; in a REPUBLIC, they assemble and administer it by their
representatives and agents." -- Madison, Federalist 14

"On this view of the import of the term REPUBLIC, instead of saying, as has
been said, -- that it may mean anything or nothing --, we may say with truth
and meaning, that governments are more or less REPUBLICAN, as they have more
or less of the element of popular election and control in their
composition..." -- Jefferson, letter to John Taylor, 1816

"Action by the citizens in person, in affairs within their reach and
competence, and in all others by representatives, chosen immediately, and
removable by themselves, constitutes the essence of a REPUBLIC." --
Jefferson, letter to Dupont de Nemours, 1816

Keep those handy. They may help you look like less of a butthead at some
time in the future.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: National teabagger convention
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/b0e43a1a6923b01c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 9:44 am
From: "HH&C"

On Jan 6, 11:02 pm, "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
> HH&C wrote:
> > On Jan 6, 9:44 pm, "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
> >> HH&C wrote:
> >>> On Jan 6, 7:12 pm, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:29:32 -0800 (PST), "HH&C"
>
> >>> Palin
>
> >> Sarah Palin is the definition of irrational, a volatile and scattered
> >> country-music queen without the music. Her Republican fans defend
> >> her lack of application and intellect, something they generally
> >> share with her.
>
> > John, it's too bad you feel that way.
>
> It's just the truth. My feelings, one way or the other, aren't involved.
>
> --
> John R. Carroll

We should call you, "Spock."

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 9:44 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

Anything else you want to know, dipshit?

--
John R. Carroll

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 9:47 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

HH&C wrote:
> On Jan 6, 11:02 pm, "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>> HH&C wrote:
>>> On Jan 6, 9:44 pm, "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>>>> HH&C wrote:
>>>>> On Jan 6, 7:12 pm, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 6 Jan 2010 15:29:32 -0800 (PST), "HH&C"
>>
>>>>> Palin
>>
>>>> Sarah Palin is the definition of irrational, a volatile and
>>>> scattered country-music queen without the music. Her Republican
>>>> fans defend her lack of application and intellect, something they
>>>> generally share with her.
>>
>>> John, it's too bad you feel that way.
>>
>> It's just the truth. My feelings, one way or the other, aren't
>> involved.
>>
>> --
>> John R. Carroll
>
> We should call you, "Spock."

I'd be surprised if you could afford to call me at all.
Well, you could probably afford cost of the call.

--
John R. Carroll

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 9:54 am
From: "HH&C"

On Jan 8, 8:49 pm, pyotr filipivich <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> I missed the Staff Meeting but the Minutes record that "Buerste"
> <buer...@wowway.com> reported Elvis on Fri, 8 Jan 2010 05:50:06 -0500
> in misc.survivalism:
>
>
>
> >"sittingduck" <d...@spamherelots.com> wrote in message
> >news:Xns9CF9C8ED411DBduckrulestheuniverse@nomail.afraid.org...
> >> HH&C wrote:
>
> >>> Republicans don't get "livid." They get pissed.
>
> >> I think it's safe to assume.
> >> Since they've pretty much pissed all over themselves lately.
>
> >If you think so but I think you are not facing all the facts due to your
> >bias. Shame on you for not opening your mind to a wider spectrum of
> >information and relying on heavily edited information and biased opinions.
>
> If the Dems, like "sitting duck" (how appropriate) want to ignore
> anything not reported by MSDNC, let them.
> -
> pyotr filipivich.
> Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
> you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.

Like I said, it just doesn't take very much sand to bury a pin-head.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Glenn Beck on Who da Commies Is
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/90e27bac800d700a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 9:59 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

Ed Huntress wrote:
> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
> news:0-KdnXTzK9IMD9rWnZ2dnUVZ_u6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>> "Ignoramus8952" <ignoramus8952@NOSPAM.8952.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:3PSdnd8dP9aLGdrWnZ2dnUVZ_oCdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> On 2010-01-08, Ed Huntress <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>
>>
>> February 19, 2006
>>
>> After Neoconservatism
>>
>> By FRANCIS FUKUYAMA
>
> <wphew!> I was a third of the way through that before I realized I'd
> read it before. <g>

I thought you'd recognize it immediately based on the date and author.

>
> Fukuyama knows his neocons, alright. He used to be one of the
> bull-goose neocons himself.

That's right and his writing in February, 2006 offers a broader perspective
that Lilla's more narrowly sourced and focused works, which was why I posted
it.

James Carville's analysis' are also worth reading.

--
John R. Carroll

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:42 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 22:28:24 -0500, the infamous
dav1936531@nowhere.invalid scrawled the following:

>On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 21:27:52 -0600, "William Wixon"
><wwixon@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>
>><dav1936531@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
>>news:4i5dk5lm4tgtosm3a65uoep1epmlupcjcb@4ax.com...
>>> A glorious socialist paradise where the elites are allowed to murder,
>>> rape, and pillage their subhuman underlings without restraint. The
>>> ultimate dream world of the psychopath.
>>> Dave
>
>>this is bait, right?
>>
>>as opposed to the glorious capitalist paradise where the elites are allowed
>>to murder, rape, and pillage their subhuman underlings without restraint.
>>The ultimate dream world of the psychopath.
>>
>>i haven't seen "avatar" yet but i gather it's kinda an allegory for the u.s.
>>and the wars in iraq/afghanistan.
>
>No, it's not bait. And not opposed to the "glorious capitalist
>paradise" either. BOTH are the same thing. BOTH have an elite class
>that runs the world of slaves, because the capitalists in charge of
>forming this system are MONOPOLY capitalists. These very same
>"capitalists" funded the Bolshevik revolution in Russia and Chairman
>Mao's revolution in China.....and also funded the Nazis. Fund both
>side of wars and make double the profits, and then profit from the
>rebuilding of all the destruction the wars caused. And do it all by
>controlling the printing presses that create money out of thin air.
>
>You have to wake up to the scam.
>Dave

Back to "Avatar", it was allegorical to the way the early Americans
treated the Indians, and the way the large multinational corporations
have treated people and ecologies in 3rd world countries, the whole
Good v Bad thing. It was extremely reminiscent of the anti-war + save
the Earth doctrinaire prevalent in the '70s, when I was a teen. Once
you get past that political part, it is a great movie where the good
guys win and the graphics/score are stunning.

Two thumbs up. I'll go see it again, or watch it via Netflix (on my
computer) when it's released.

--============================================--
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.
---
http://diversify.com/handypouches.html ToolyRoo(tm)
and Possum(tm) Handy Pouches NOW AVAILABLE!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Right-Wing Media Machine
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/864294cfa36ec01f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:14 am
From: pyjamarama

On Jan 9, 4:25 am, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
wrote:
> http://www.enewspf.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1...
> "How About Some New Year's Resolutions for the Right-Wing Media Machine?"
> [
> ....
> Yes, many Americans have made their New Year's resolutions. Perhaps the
> conservative media establishment should do the same.
>
> Fox News' tear-shedding golden boy Glenn Beck should give up the infamous
> chalkboard he's used to illustrate wild conspiracy theories and invest the money
> saved -- he must spend a bundle on chalk -- on a team of full-time
> fact-checkers. After all, he's become notorious over the past year for letting
> facts fall by the wayside in his non-stop campaign to tear down the Obama
> presidency. Such a resolution might even bring back at least some of the 80
> advertisers Beck's program lost in 2009 after he called the president a
> "racist."

And yet Beck almost single-handedly brought down Obama's crypto-
marxist, America-hating Green Czar Van Jones, his Mao-praising hack
communications director Anita Dunn and played a large role in exposing
ACORN as a criminal enterprise -- getting those scumbags defunded.

He's obviously doing something right -- for Americans and America.

Methinks he'll be even a greater resource for the American people in
this, an election year.

It's good to know he's so far under the skin of leftists.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: By their works shall thee know them
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fb05bf8b37469e1e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 9 2010 10:15 am
From: "HH&C"

On Jan 9, 7:22 am, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
wrote:
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lawrence-mishel/jobs-aughts-for-naught_...
> [
> When it comes to jobs, it turns out the aughts were for naught. Too bad we can't
> just party like it's 1999.
>
> This morning the Labor Department issued its final monthly jobs report for the
> decade just ended. In December 2009, the economy shed 85,000 jobs and the
> unemployment rate held at 10.0 percent, but only because 661,000 people left the
> labor force.
>
> So this report makes it official: The last decade was indeed a lost decade for
> job creation. We're beginning 2010 with just about 131 million jobs, only
> 129,000 more than at the beginning of the decade. This is despite the fact that
> the U.S. population has grown by roughly 25 million people since 2000.
>
> As the Washington Post recently reported, the aughts' net zero job growth puts
> the decade in its own inauspicious category. In each of the six preceding
> decades, from the 1940's forward, job growth was 20 percent or higher.

> It's important to note how we got here. Right-wing economic policies -- and
> remember that the right wing was in charge for eight of the past 10 years --
> emphasized that government was the problem and the market always knew best.

And remember who was in charge when the massive hemmoraging began. Is
there any end in sight?

> Regulators sat on the sidelines while Wall Street gambled with Main Street's
> money, inflated an enormous housing bubble and marketed dangerous mortgages. The
> bubble popped with catastrophic consequences for millions of workers who had, in
> fact, played by the rules.
>
> The Bush administration passed recklessly irresponsible tax cuts that further
> enriched the wealthy and handicapped our ability to make investments for a
> stronger economy -- investments in infrastructure, innovation, and education,
> which would have yielded dividends for all Americans for generations to come.
> The results were not only poor job growth but also the only business cycle where
> the typical working family had less income at the end than at the beginning --
> as if recovery never happened.
>
> Rather than attempt to reinvigorate American manufacturing, the right wing
> pushed for unfair trade deals that lacked protections for workers, forcing
> Americans to compete for their jobs with workers in countries that lack even
> basic labor standards.

We'll see how quickly Obama and the UAW Officials run GM into the
ground.

> Conservatives talk about the dignity of work; when they call for gutting the
> social safety net and workplace safety rules, they do it in the name of
> empowering more people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and achieve
> economic independence. Yet right-wing economic policies gave us the worst decade
> for jobs since the 1930's.

There is a whole bulletin board at work covered with notices and
posters explaining the social safety net and the work place safety
rules.

I haven't noticed any of them coming down.

Is my employer remiss in keeping that bulletin board up to date?

Should I contact some Federal Agency and rat them out?

> The point here is not only to affix well-deserved blame. The more important
> point is to make sure we don't repeat the mistakes of the past.

Exactly. Vote out anyone who voted for the stimulus bill. Better
yet... be safe and vote out everyone.

> Yet the right
> wing, having overseen a disastrous decade for America's middle class, simply
> wants to double down on the failed policies that got us here.

One of the more prosperous periods in American history was a direct
result of Reagan's tax cuts.

> Insanity, as Einstein put it, is doing the same thing over and over again and
> expecting different results. Viewed that way, the "job creation" proposals
> floated by House Republicans are truly insane. More deregulation. More unfair
> trade agreements. More tax cuts for rich people. That's why their respectful
> rhetoric about the value of work is plainly just talk.
> ....
> ]

So do you think that Americans are willing to do the jobs that just
one year ago Americans didn't want to do?

See what one year of Obama is worth? People ready to give up their
dignity.

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Saturday, January 9, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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