twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 15 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Static First
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0fa62c6aa1f83bad?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 12:21 pm
From: Leon Fisk

Maybe, Steve Ackman <steve@SNIP-THIS.twoloonscoffee.com>
Wrote in <slrnhkl3fm.lvj.steve@sorceror.wizard.dyndns.org>

<snip>
>Was this a static discharge from you to the power
>strip, or some unknown ZAP from powering it up?

Some sort of power-up problem. I've had the printer hooked
up numerous times, but can't recall having the printer
plugged in (to a different outlet via a three-prong adapter)
and data cable hooked up before powering up the computers
strip. The three prong cheater really shouldn't matter,
unless there is something not-quite-right somewhere :) I'll
have to check into that aspect, thought before trying that
combo again.

The computer has had some strange quirks powering up right
along, I kinda got use to them though seeing they didn't
seem to change any. Haven't gotten around to seeing if the
printer still works or not. It does power-up, but haven't
hooked it to a known good parallel port yet. Doesn't really
matter, in all my years working on electronic stuff I've yet
to figure out a way to undo a zap or put the magic smoke
back.

It was just an old Compaq Presario, AMD-K6 500mhz running
WinNT4 and 98 (for USB). A friend gave it to me several
years ago for doing a few favors. But it WAS working pretty
well for the stuff I putz around with. Fastest computer I've
ever used.

<snip>
> From an Aug web page of mine:
> This VIA micro-ATX motherboard w/ integrated 1.5 Ghz
> C7-D CPU was $10.50 through eBay...
<snip>

I'll probably try resurrecting it somehow after I pout for
awhile. Got way too much stuff on the hard drive I don't
want to part with and I know that part is still working
okay. Your fix/build is cool if you have enough info and
parts to scrounge from. I'm just a one man show anymore with
very little budget. I already have enough white-elephants
around that sounded like they should work but didn't quite.

We have a big electronics recycler in town that has a Thrift
store. I'm going to try stopping by and see what kind of
stuff they may have when I get a chance. Good a place as any
to start I guess.

>Ubuntu or more specifically Kubuntu is generally
>considered the easiest transition for Windows users.
>I hate KDE though, so put Xubuntu on my wife's computer.
> PCLinuxOS is also very user friendly. I don't like
>it as well (comes with KDE), but it's the distribution
>that "just worked" on the wireless card in our Acer
>laptop.

I'm pretty comfortable working from a prompt. Just have to
find/learn a bunch of new utilities, tools, proggies to get
back to what I am accustomed to being able to do.

Umbunto seems to have a pretty good following right now and
seems like as good a place as any to start. Almost seems to
be too many ~Linux choices nowadays, but I enjoy tinkering
for the most part (shrug).

> I first heard about it around '93, but it wasn't
>until '97 that I had a computer that could run it.
>After all, you needed FOUR MEGABYTES of RAM...
>(Anyway, I was pretty happy with PCGEOS at the time.)

I heard about Linux around the same time but didn't really
have any reason to try it. This machine (486DX40 16mb RAM)
would have worked well back then. You really wouldn't want
to know how many $$$$ I have invested in this old clunker
through the years. Probably why I still have it :) Even the
clock is keeping up again now that it gets powered up most
every day. Awful slow though and the OS is far from being
stable.

Just though you might take heart in knowing that someone
else was having a bad week with their computer too.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI | Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wes, 6913 lathe
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/ee6f9f685251a34d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 12:40 pm
From: Brian Lawson

Hey Wes,

I sent you an email at the e-ddress I see below. It bounced back with
the message:

For <clutch@lycos.com>, Site (lycos.com/209.202.254.41) said: 550
5.2.1 RACT 209.216.133.240: Mailbox is inactive: <clutch@lycos.com>

It's just a video documentary on Canadian Ice Fishing I thought you
might like, maybe 2 minutes long Do you have a limitation on file
size?

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:16:54 -0500, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:

>clutch@lycos.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 2:17 pm
From: Wes

Brian Lawson <lawsonb@ciaccess.com> wrote:

>Hey Wes,
>
>I sent you an email at the e-ddress I see below. It bounced back with
>the message:
>
>For <clutch@lycos.com>, Site (lycos.com/209.202.254.41) said: 550
>5.2.1 RACT 209.216.133.240: Mailbox is inactive: <clutch@lycos.com>
>
>It's just a video documentary on Canadian Ice Fishing I thought you
>might like, maybe 2 minutes long Do you have a limitation on file
>size?
>
>Brian Lawson,
>Bothwell, Ontario.
>
>XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
>
>
>On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:16:54 -0500, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>>clutch@lycos.com

It is a dead account now. Lycos abandoned free email afaikt.

Is your email address above good? If so I'll email you from one I normally use.

wess (AT) wess dot mdns dot org also works.

Wes

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 5/16 Tool Bits
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/371ca87c9b111661?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 12:31 pm
From: Mark Rand

On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:54:03 -0700, "Bob La Londe" <none@none.com> wrote:

>I have been noticing that except for a couple places there isn't as much
>available in 5/16 as 1/4. I was wondering about that since so many cheap
>mini lathes come setup for 5/16 now.

They're not set up for 5/16", they're set up for 8mm :-)

Mark Rand
RTFM

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 12:45 pm
From: "Snag"

Bob La Londe wrote:
> I have been noticing that except for a couple places there isn't as
> much available in 5/16 as 1/4. I was wondering about that since so
> many cheap mini lathes come setup for 5/16 now. Then I realized,
> they all want you to spring for a quick change tool post kit right
> away. A quick change tool post is definitely in the immediate future
> for me (or some custom tool holders made on the mill), but when the
> lathe arrived I just wanted to cut something. I wonder if that is
> marketing or if there is some other reason.
> (Yes I know. Grind your own and don't worry about it, but I wanted
> some good standards to cut to match from since I don't have one of
> those fancy grinding/sharpening machines.)

Hey Bob , if it'll help , I've got a sheet that shows common profiles and
the associated angles . If you want a copy send me your snail mail addy (my
reply-to is good) and I'll send you one .

--
Snag
"90 FLHTCU "Strider"
'39 WLDD "PopCycle"
BS 132/SENS/DOF

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 1:09 pm
From: "Wild_Bill"

I believe there were at least a couple of dealers selling the 8-piece 5/16"
pre-ground sets, not long ago.. if that's what you're referring to.

I guess too many mini-lathe users are trying to struggle along with brazed
carbide or inserts, and the pre-ground 5/16 HSS weren't popular enough to
keep in stock.
The pre-ground HSS sets have a couple of cutting tools that wouldn't be
easily made. They were offset/dogleg in shape, as ground from a larger piece
of HSS.. not an extremely difficult task, but time consuming.

The 8-piece 1/4" HSS sets, such as those sold by Walden Specialties would be
suitable for use wih a mini-lathe, but they end up being too low to the
cenerline.
Instead of fuzing around with a bunch of shims, a friend showed me how to
make a few "adapters" that allow the cutting tools to be height adjustable.

By taking an appropriately sized section of square stock, and milling a
ramped slot in it, this allows for some height adjustment of the cutting
tool.
When I got my 9x20 lathe, I made a set of three of the gizmos, each with a
different taper in the bottom of the trough.
I had 2 sets for 5/16" and 3/8" for my other lathe.

I've emailed Walden and LMS to see if they have any of the 5/16" sets.

For hand grinding blanks, you might want to consider a small project for
holding the blanks while you grind. I've found them to be very worthwhile.
http://www.kwagmire.com/tools/broach_tool.html

One very handy accessory that can be made for a lathe, is a boring bar
holder. They're versatile for holding boring bars made from worn out taps or
reamers.

--
WB
.........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

"Bob La Londe" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:ftK2n.16648$DY5.12815@newsfe08.iad...
>I have been noticing that except for a couple places there isn't as much
>available in 5/16 as 1/4. I was wondering about that since so many cheap
>mini lathes come setup for 5/16 now. Then I realized, they all want you to
>spring for a quick change tool post kit right away. A quick change tool
>post is definitely in the immediate future for me (or some custom tool
>holders made on the mill), but when the lathe arrived I just wanted to cut
>something. I wonder if that is marketing or if there is some other reason.
>
> (Yes I know. Grind your own and don't worry about it, but I wanted some
> good standards to cut to match from since I don't have one of those fancy
> grinding/sharpening machines.)

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 1:26 pm
From: F. George McDuffee

On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:03:59 -0800 (PST), "dcaster@krl.org"
<dcaster@krl.org> wrote:

>On Jan 11, 6:54 pm, "Bob La Londe" <n...@none.com> wrote:
>>
>> (Yes I know. Grind your own and don't worry about it, but I wanted some
>> good standards to cut to match from since I don't have one of those fancy
>> grinding/sharpening machines.)
>
>You do not need a fancy grinding/sharpening machine. Just need a
>bench grinder with aluminum oxide wheels.
>
> Dan
Or even a bench type belt sander with a correct belt. If you
have the belt/disk combo sander you can get fine grit disks at
most auto supply stores that sell body working supplies that will
put a mirror finish and razor edge on the tool after roughing on
the belt. FWIW even tools directly from the belt sander are
perfectly acceptable.

For a hand honed edge without the hassle, get a blue nylon
abrasive bristle brush for your drill press. Hardware store ones
will have a 1/4 shank. A quick pass is all that is required.

Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 1:44 pm
From: stans4@prolynx.com

On Jan 11, 2:26 pm, F. George McDuffee <gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us> wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:03:59 -0800 (PST), "dcas...@krl.org"
>
> <dcas...@krl.org> wrote:
> >On Jan 11, 6:54 pm, "Bob La Londe" <n...@none.com> wrote:
>
> >> (Yes I know. Grind your own and don't worry about it, but I wanted some
> >> good standards to cut to match from since I don't have one of those fancy
> >> grinding/sharpening machines.)
>
> >You do not need a fancy grinding/sharpening machine. Just need a
> >bench grinder with aluminum oxide wheels.
>
> > Dan
>
> Or even a bench type belt sander with a correct belt. If you
> have the belt/disk combo sander you can get fine grit disks at
> most auto supply stores that sell body working supplies that will
> put a mirror finish and razor edge on the tool after roughing on
> the belt. FWIW even tools directly from the belt sander are
> perfectly acceptable.
>
> For a hand honed edge without the hassle, get a blue nylon
> abrasive bristle brush for your drill press. Hardware store ones
> will have a 1/4 shank. A quick pass is all that is required.
>
> Unka George (George McDuffee)

I use the belt grinder, 1x42, then hone the final edge with a small
diamond plate. Use a pretty coarse belt, like 40-60 grit. You want
to move the material, not polish it. I prefer that to a regular bench
grinder, lots easier to get angles done right.

As far as tool blanks, both Enco and MSC carry a variety, cobalt in
various percentages and M2. I've had some good cobalt and some bad
cobalt from Enco, the bad stuff broke easily and dubbed off, the good
stuff would keep an edge far beyond regular HSS. You take your
chances there.

Stan

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 1:45 pm
From: Bob Gentry

On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 11:54:03 -0700, "Bob La Londe" <none@none.com>
wrote:

>I have been noticing that except for a couple places there isn't as much
>available in 5/16 as 1/4. I was wondering about that since so many cheap
>mini lathes come setup for 5/16 now. Then I realized, they all want you to
>spring for a quick change tool post kit right away. A quick change tool
>post is definitely in the immediate future for me (or some custom tool
>holders made on the mill), but when the lathe arrived I just wanted to cut
>something. I wonder if that is marketing or if there is some other reason.
>
>(Yes I know. Grind your own and don't worry about it, but I wanted some
>good standards to cut to match from since I don't have one of those fancy
>grinding/sharpening machines.)
----------------------------------------------------------------
Bob
A 'fancy grinding/sharpening machine' may be nice to have/use but is
_not_ required <g>. For the basics of 'How To' take a look at the
following Sherline URL.

http://www.sherline.com/grinding.htm

I started with a Sherline (still got/use it) and found the Sherline
site to be a wellspring of information. When I moved up to an 11"
Logan the majority of what I learned from them was aplicable(sp),
including grinding my own HSS tools.

HTH
rgentry at oz dot net

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A Dream Ticket for Oil Companies
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/093bb3b302122452?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 12:57 pm
From: "DockScience"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:iskjk55kvp1njmfl6chq1jt71j9j0op3u2@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 9 Jan 2010 00:44:35 -0500, "vinny" <vinny@vp3d.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Sueki Tartridge" <hoofhearted07@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:2880721c-58ae-4ffd-90cd-6c03769084fb@a15g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
>>On Jan 9, 8:27 am, John Q Public <my2ce...@me.com> wrote:
>>> On 2010-01-09 09:10:54 -0500, Sueki Tartridge <hoofhearte...@yahoo.com>
>>> said:
>>>
>>> > On Jan 9, 6:13 am, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>http://www.pr-inside.com/us-election-watch-john-mccain-and-r1658818.ht
>>> > m
>>> >> " .... Sarah Palin - A Dream Ticket for Oil Companies - new report
>>> > ..."
>>>
>>> > Your header should read: If Palin was President we'd already be
>>> > working to make ourselves independent of foreign oil instead of using
>>> > every ounce of political credibility to shove a montrous healthcare
>>> > "reform" bill down the throats of the American taxpayers which the
>>> > vast majority don't want.
>>>
>>> Yep, he can't have any of those new high paying sustainable jobs and the
>>> boost
>>> to economy cheaper oil would give us.
>>> He only likes those tax sucking non sustainable govt. jobs which will
>>> cost us more and more
>>> as the graft goes round!
>>
>>And T-Bone Picken's sits on a $BILLION worth of wind powered "bird
>>cuisinarts" that nobody wants in their backyard.
>>
>>**********
>>Oil is extremely efficient and cheap.
>
> As it costs about US$ 18 to conserve a barrel of oil what
> do they want to sell you?
>
>>For what you get out of a gallon as
>>far as energy goes, it's very low on the pollution scale.
>
> Hence all the regulations & costs ...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPdTH-jqv6Y
>
>>We use oil to
>>control nations from south America to the Middle east, and even canada.
>> So I say we stay on gasoline, they just found out there's as much oil as
>>oceans.
>> Besides, we will not get off our "oil addiction" by simply creating wind
>>turbines. Energy is just one part of what we do with oil. Everything we
>>use
>>is plastic..or oil. The roads are paved in oil. The resins, and the
>>building
>>materials made out of oil will still be used.
>>
>> It's just another bunch of crap used to scare people.
>
> Unlike winger lies ....
> --
> Cliff

How's that wind powered car working for you Cliff.
I mean someone of your sensitivity wouldn't be driving a fossil fueled one
would you?

Didn't think so.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Teenut". . . . . Gone, but not Forgotton
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/d94817875f9e44ba?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 12:57 pm
From: Brian Lawson

Anybody,

Some parts of my memory fade. Fast. I don't really know why, but I
always remember the January 11 part, but now I can not remember the
year. I know it was before I moved here in 2003, because I remember
writing to Ellen afterwards, and at that moment (of recall) I was in
my rec-room in Windsor. Anybody know??? 2001, or maybe earlier??

Hmmmm.....and has anyone heard from/about Ellen lately, Nice lady.
Hope all the problems got sorted OK.

Or about t-nuts daughter that lived in Burlington, Ontario, at one
time?

No reason. Just thinking about him again.

Thanks.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 2:22 pm
From: "Karl Townsend"

My all time favorite Teenut post:

Karl

Subject: Re: drill sharpening FAQ?
From: Robert Bastow <tee...@home.com>
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 07:59:04 GMT

Intro snipped.....

The drill was ground, freehand, on
the FACE of the wheel (not the flat side)...care being taken to keep the
POINT
angle as equal as possible on both sides..I'll tell you how to do THAT in a
moment..

Lets do that now in fact..

Jim, You are dead right about not being able to grind a drill without
mechanical
help! Well here's how you create your own "6 Million Dollar Bionic Darex"
;^)

Let's assume we are going to sharpen a 3/8" diameter, 2MT shank drill..it is
about 8" long (these figures are arbitrary..I just want every one to have
the
same mental picture of what I am describing. We approach the wheel, which
has
been dressed on its face, dead straight across with no grooves..(Ve SHOOT
anyone
ve catch putting grooves in ze drill wheel!!..No Pity..No Prisoners..Ya!
Verdampt!)

(Sorry)...

The drill shank is held firmly in the RIGHT hand...ALL the movement and
control
is imparted by the RIGHT hand. For the purposes of drill grinding, the left
hand
could be...with benefit..a LUMP OF CLAY!!

It is from this "lump of clay" that we fashion the Bionic Darex".

Place your left hand thumb and finger tips LIGHTLY together..Relax the other
three fingers aand let them naturally curl against the palm of your hand.
Let
the drill flute drop into the vee between thumb and fore finger and let the
tip
of the finger "Find" the curve of the flute where it fits comfortably. The
tip
of the thumb rests on the sharp junction ot the land and the flute, about an
inch back from the drill tip.

Now...SQUEEZE HARD!!! YOUCH!...I said it would be easier if it were clay!
8^)
Lift the drill from your fingers...see the GROOVE?...Drop the drill back
in..it
locates within a thou or two! Magic?..Bionic at least! Squeeze again to set
the
groove. You have created a customised drill guide that fits better that
that on
any machine ever built! You can relax your grip now..feel how smoothly the
drill will ride back and forth, guided by the groove you have created for
it.

Place the knuckles of your left hand, LIGHTLY on the ginding wheel tool
rest,
and swing the drill shank, from left to right (using ONLY your right hand)
and
push the drill lengthways though that groove in your fingers back or forth
using
the groove to make the drill twist or "rifle" in your fingers. Do NOT move
your
left hand in any way..it is made of clay remember!

UNTIL....

A) The drill axis is "eyeballed" to be at half the required point angle to
the
wheel face...You can scribe or chalk reference lines on your grinder
benchtop to
help you line this up..at least untill it become almost second nature.

B) The drill axis is dropped JUUUst below horizontal. This will ensure that
your soon to be ground drill lip will start with a "smidgin" of cutting
clearance.

(Ideally, and certainly for a beginner, the grinder rest should be set dead
radially to the wheel center and about half the drill diameter below the
true
center of the wheel)

C) The two cutting edges of the drill..the straight, sharp bits, formed by
the
junction of the flute and the back face (the only bit you grind), should be
horizontally disposed..with the edge uppermost on the side closest to your
left
hand..the othe sharp bit of course, pointing downwards (Jeeze this would be
a
lot easier with a sketch pad)

This I will call the SET or START position!

NOW, move your left hand for the first, last, and ONLY time during th is
whole
exercise. GENTLY ease the cutting edge towards the spinning wheel,
carefully
maintaining all the angles and orientations of the SET position..until the
cutting edge is JUST shy of touching the wheel. If you listen carefully you
will hear the tone of the entrained air, whistling through the narrowing
gap.
You will hear a subtle but distinct change of tone JUST, I mean Just...a
couple
tenths of a thou BEFORE the edge touches the wheel. STOP!!! FREEZE!! DO
NOT
MOVE!!

Now, press the knuckles of your lump of clay..sorry, your left hand FIRMLY
down
onto, into and around the grinding rest..establish a "Groove" on the back of
your hand as well as between your fingers.

We are now ready to grind, Your left hand locked to the drill and grinding
rest
is otherwise quite relaxed..letting the drill slide, twist and tilt wherever
your right hand and the groove in your fingers tell it to go.

The actual grinding is a bit of an anticlimax.

You have previously studied a new drill point, you have read about
clearance,
and cutting angles, and rakes and......

With the RIGHT hand in control, gently, kinda, lean forward... bending or
squeezing your arms hands and body..rather than actually moving them..untill
you
take up that last couple of tenths and the wheel begins to cut. Let it
cut..don't force it, and dont' rush it..it really won't hurt anything if you
take a full minute Per pass per face. YOU and your "Bionic Darex" are
totally
in control of that drill and the wheel..Forget the times when, close to
panic,
you swung the drill wildly past the wheel, hoping to get "the dirty deed"
over
with as quickly as possible.

Take your time, enjoy the moment, THINK about the shape you are trying to
generate. Just the one face is left to "Interpretation"...every other
aspect,angle, facet, what have you...Has ALREADY BEEN TAKEN CARE OF!! and is
locked in place under your control!

The right hand should perfome a "Lower Quadrant sweep" for want of a better
term..An observer behind you would see your hand move from about 17 minutes
past
the hour on a clock face, to roughly 25 minutes past. But it isn't a smooth
arc
of a circle, more a sector of an elipse..You see, as your hand starts to
drop
slowly, you are also rotating the drill in "the groove"..the first third of
the
turn needs to maintain that very slight clearance angle on the cutting edge,
and
not increase it too rapidly.

You need the clearance to cut..But too much at that point will WEAKEN the
edge,
and cause the drill to snatch and chip...So the first part of the rotation
is
ALMOST but not quite, just as though you were grinding a straight cone point
on
the end of your drill. Only as you approach the second third, does your
right
hand start to noticably drop..kinda "Catching Up" on the rotary
motion...increasing the clearance as it does.

In the last third of the rotaion the right hand drops quite rapidly..Thogh
not
enough to catch the OTHER drill lip on the wheel..that lip is coming around
quite rapidly by now.

Above all, take your time, if it helps, move the drill one degree at a time,
and
think ahead what shape or angle the next degree of cutting face
needs...Remember, you have control, and IT ain't going nowhere 'til you
decide.

After a pass on one face, flip the drill in your "Bionic Darex" DO NOT MOVE
THAT LEFT HAND!!, return to SET position and repeat, the pass on the other
face.

Having done a couple of passes on each face..it is now time to check the
results
on our homemade "Optical Comparator"

(Sorry Jim I couldn't resist!!) ;^)

Rest the center hole in back end of the drill shank, on the center point of
the
"Comparator" and use, first one and then the other drill lip to scribe a
light
line on your whitewashed (OK Blue or red dyed) surface.

You will readily see if the lines coincide..if the lips are even..or not, as
the
case may be.

Lets assume they are..Now look directly DOWN on the end of the drill to
check
the clearances. HUH? How can you check radial clearance by looking it
staight
in the face? Surely you need to look at it sideways?

Well no you don't...for once all thos interacting and confusing angle and
faces
and clearances are going to work together in YOUR favor and make what could
be a
tricky bit of metrology..quite simple. While we are looking at the end of
the
drill, we will also check that the POINT ANGLE is correct too!!!

(Ok guys, leave quietly..teenut has finally lost it!!)

No really, trust me. IF you look straight down on the point of a well
sharpened, standard drill, you will see
the two cutting edges, joined by the CHISEL edge which crosses over the web
of
the drill The angle fromed by the chisel edge to each cutting edge, should
be
ABOUT 50 deg...anywhere between 40 and sixty is ok for a first attempt. (I
can
hear the purists and theorists screaming and lighting up their flame
throwers)
But believe me, get it in that ball park and your drill will CUT. If the
angle
is too steep..you don't have enough clearance...negative clearance will give
you
an angle event greater than 90 deg. Too MUCH clerance and the angle will
appear
too shallow!

While looking at the end, check the point angle, How? Look down the axis
of
the drill at the cutting edges. Are they straight? If so, your point is
pretty
close to the right angle (As designed for that drill, by its manufacturer
when
he set the helix angle and the cross section of the flute) If the edges
appear
CONCAVE the point is too flat and if they appear CONVEX, the point is too
"Pointy"

If your drill passes all these tests, which take but a second or two to
perform,
THEN IT WILL CUT..pretty close to size, without chattering, chipping,
overheating, wandering or seizing. I guarantee it!

Hey, thats a pretty good start for the first drill you ever ground! All it
takes now is a bit of practice for it to become second nature and almost as
easy
with a little 'un or a big 'un!

Hey guys!

My apologies for "goin'on" but If it helps just one person to pluck up the
couragre and go hand sharpen his (or Her) first drill, by hand...

Then I hope you will bear with me.

It is late, I am tired and I am not even going to proof or spell check this,

'night all

teenut

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 2:25 pm
From: Winston

Brian Lawson wrote:
> Anybody,
>
> Some parts of my memory fade. Fast. I don't really know why, but I
> always remember the January 11 part, but now I can not remember the
> year. I know it was before I moved here in 2003, because I remember
> writing to Ellen afterwards, and at that moment (of recall) I was in
> my rec-room in Windsor. Anybody know??? 2001, or maybe earlier??

January 11, 2001 around 9:15 pm.

> Hmmmm.....and has anyone heard from/about Ellen lately, Nice lady.
> Hope all the problems got sorted OK.
>
> Or about t-nuts daughter that lived in Burlington, Ontario, at one
> time?
>
> No reason. Just thinking about him again.

http://yarchive.net/metal/teenut.html

--Winston

You taught me tolerance, kindness, generosity and optimism.

By example.

Thanks Teenut.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Survey Transit Optical Plummet
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fa5097e24ceef8e7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 1:03 pm
From: Brian Lawson

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 18:05:50 -0800 (PST), oldjag
<msmith5242@comcast.net> wrote:

>I found a Schneider TT700 transit on Craig's List I couldn't resist
>buying. It was probably made in the late '80s and seems in good
>shape and nicely made. I borrowed a much older K&E to do some layout
>work for my new garage a while back...so this seemed to be useful tool
>for the price. I guess transits go for next to nothing now, most
>surveyors I've seen use the electronic theodolites and stations,
>probably a lot faster and more accurate. Anyway, the TT700 transit has
>an optical plummet, which not being a surveyor, I've never used.
>It's a scope mounted in the side of the housing with two mirrors
>allowing a view out the center bottom of the mount. The mounting
>thread for the transit is 5/8-11. I need a tripod for it, and after
>looking at a few in on Ebay, most seem to have a hollow 5/8"-11 center
>bolt. Is it a reasonable assumption that most any tripod with a
>hollow 5/8-11 bolt is designed to allow the optical plummet scope to
>"see" a target under the tripod? Also would be nice if I could find
>a copy of the manual somewhere...guess I'll call around Monday and see
>if anyone has ever heard of this unit and has an old manual lying
>around.

Hey Jag,

Would this 5/8 bolt with a hole thru have been to hang a plumb-bob
on/from? And would the "plummet" you mention take the place of the
bob?? Good idea, as trying to keep the bob line placed over the mark
in the weather is tough.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: what is it?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7a5488228db38b71?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 1:05 pm
From: Brian Lawson

On Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:09:00 GMT, Jordan <jwprincic@otpusnet.com.au>
wrote:

>3 pics of a piece of tooling that came with an old english lathe - looks
>to be a cast iron body - would appreciate suggestions please what it
>might be for ?
>
>Jordan
>
>http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/whatisit_6914a.jpg
>http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/whatisit_6920a.jpg
>http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/whatisit_6932a.jpg

Hey Jordan,

Is the hole tapered, like to hold a tapered tool, maybe like a drill
bit?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Hoots, the Hoots ....
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/ccf6203e2e3f97bd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 1:26 pm
From: Cliff

On 11 Jan 2010 13:52:01 -0600, "Fred B. Brown" <fredbbrown@nowhere.com> wrote:

>
>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>news:rvujk5h12ma16m3d9g09b0mlftk43so2pq@4ax.com...
>> On 10 Jan 2010 09:59:01 -0600, "Fred B. Brown" <fredbbrown@nowhere.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>>news:h2njk5129bun09gchhchjrd961170ttesm@4ax.com...
>>>> Yes, folks they keep on coming !!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2010/01/palin-couldnt-remember-bidens-name.html
>>>> "Sarah Palin couldn't remember Joe Biden's name -- and other debate
>>>> prep
>>>> tidbits from Steve Schmidt"
>>>> [
>>>> Remember that vice presidential debate in 2008, when then-Alaska Gov.
>>>> Sarah
>>>> Palin said to then-Sen. Joe Biden, "Hey, can I call you Joe?"
>>>>
>>>> Well, it turns out that the Republican candidate for vice president
>>>> couldn't
>>>> remember Biden's name. Palin kept crossing his name with presidential
>>>> candidate
>>>> Barack Obama's, calling him O'Biden.
>>>> ]
>>>> ....
>>>> [
>>>> In an interview to air Sunday on CBS' "60 Minutes," Schmidt said a
>>>> member
>>>> of the
>>>> team that was helping Palin prepare for the debate called to alert him
>>>> that
>>>> Palin was not focused or engaged and that the debate could prove "a
>>>> debacle of
>>>> historic and epic proportions."
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>> After weeks of $$ rehearsals for the "debate" ... she did not even know
>>>> Biden's last name. Not even at "debate" time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601086&sid=aq0oYidTOnr0
>>>> "Sarah Palin's Daughter, Bristol, Sets Up Public Relations Firm"
>>>>
>>>> She's almost 18 & well educated on such matters, right?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://bighollywood.breitbart.com/bhallowell/2009/12/21/entertainment-media-continue-to-blast-palin/
>>>> [
>>>> Each state has educational standards that list expected skills in order
>>>> to
>>>> graduate from specific grade levels.
>>>>
>>>> Here is California's, for 8th grade social studies:
>>>>
>>>> 5. Analyze the significance of the States' Rights Doctrine, the Missouri
>>>> Compromise
>>>> (1820), the Wilmot Proviso (1846), the Compromise of 1850, Henry Clay's
>>>> role in
>>>> the
>>>> Missouri Compromise and the Compromise of 1850, the Kansas-Nebraska Act
>>>> (1854),
>>>> the Dred Scott v. Sandford decision (1857), and the Lincoln-Douglas
>>>> debates
>>>> (1858).
>>>>
>>>> So, factually, Sarah Palin is not smart enough to graduate from the 8th
>>>> grade,
>>>> she could not name Dred Scott, when asked to name any SCOTUS case. Any.
>>>> Over the
>>>> last 200 years. Just one. Couldn't do it.
>>>>
>>>> Please, we want you to support her in 2012.
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>> LOL
>>>> --
>>>> Cliff
>>>
>>>So Palin forgets a name, big deal.
>>
>> We could forget hers but she's so funny !!!
>> After all that expensive training she could not remember ....
>>
>>>Your Liar In Chief has forgotten
>>>all his campaign promises that got him elected. Where's all that
>>>"transparency", "open government" and Healthcare debate to be
>>>televised on CNN? Huh, where is it??????????
>>
>> Who ever said "televised on CNN?'
>
>Answer the question, dumbass, you trust a man who lies to to the
>nation?

Who ever said "televised on CNN?'

You? Faux? Rush?

Though they did indeed carry much of it.
Showed lots of pretty stupid rethugs.

>> THAT would be up to CNN, would it not?
>
>Thanks for the correction.

You are welcome.

Wingers lie.

>
>>
>> Did you miss CSPAN?
>>
>>>Your post shows what kind of ethical values you have when you
>>>support a liar.
>>
>> I hardly support Palin.
>> No matter how funny.
>>
>>>LOL yourself, dumbass.
>>
>> Find those "WMDs" yet?
>
>Yeah, found two on November 4 2009, one in Virginia and the
>other in New Jersey when the democrats got kicked out. Expect
>another big bang in Massachusetts on the 19th when a republican
>takes Kennedy's seat.

IOW No. But you still want to lie,

Find those "WMDs" yet?
--
Cliff

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 1:29 pm
From: Cliff

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 09:32:21 -0700, <raykeller@rnsmte.com> wrote:

>
>"Fred B. Brown" <fredbbrown@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>news:4b49f8ed$0$325$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
>>
>> "Clitt" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>> news:h2njk5129bun09gchhchjrd961170ttesm@4ax.com...
>>> Yes, folks they keep on coming !!
>snip
>
>>>
>>> Please, we want you to support her in 2012.
>>> ]
>>>
>>> LOL
>>> --
>>> Cliff
>>
>> So Palin forgets a name, big deal. Your Liar In Chief has forgotten
>> all his campaign promises that got him elected. Where's all that
>> "transparency", "open government" and Healthcare debate to be
>> televised on CNN? Huh, where is it??????????
>> Your post shows what kind of ethical values you have when you
>> support a liar.
>> LOL yourself, dumbass.
>Clitt is a braindead progressiv/comunist drone that gets his talking points
>from the huffington post.
>He will be dead in less than 3 years.

Wingers lie so clearly I'll live forever, right?
Holding their crispy (but ignorant & lying) toes to the flames ...

Find those "WMDs" yet?
--
Cliff

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 1:31 pm
From: Cliff

On 11 Jan 2010 13:54:02 -0600, "Fred B. Brown" <fredbbrown@nowhere.com> wrote:

>
><raykeller@rnsmte.com> wrote in message
>news:4b4a010f$0$3547$9a6e19ea@news.newshosting.com...
>>
>> "Fred B. Brown" <fredbbrown@nowhere.com> wrote in message
>> news:4b49f8ed$0$325$bb4e3ad8@newscene.com...
>>>
>>> "Clitt" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>> news:h2njk5129bun09gchhchjrd961170ttesm@4ax.com...
>>>> Yes, folks they keep on coming !!
>> snip
>>
>>>>
>>>> Please, we want you to support her in 2012.
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>> LOL
>>>> --
>>>> Cliff
>>>
>>> So Palin forgets a name, big deal. Your Liar In Chief has forgotten
>>> all his campaign promises that got him elected. Where's all that
>>> "transparency", "open government" and Healthcare debate to be
>>> televised on CNN? Huh, where is it??????????
>>> Your post shows what kind of ethical values you have when you
>>> support a liar.
>>> LOL yourself, dumbass.
>> Clitt is a braindead progressiv/comunist drone that gets his talking
>> points from the huffington post.
>
>I know, I just like argueing with idiots. The Palin bashers are so pathetic.

Does Palin even have an IQ high enough to qualify as an
official rethug idiot or mascot?
Not that that woud take much.

>> He will be dead in less than 3 years.

Find those "WMDs" yet?
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: God's chosen
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5d47e5aecd4d2c6c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 1:32 pm
From: Cliff

http://tinyurl.com/Gods-chosen-candidate
"WASHINGTON � Sarah Palin believed that Sen. John McCain chose her to be his
running mate in 2008 because of "God's plan," according to a top political
strategist in the Arizona Republican's campaign."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Glenn Beck on Who da Commies Is
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/90e27bac800d700a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 1:55 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 20:14:50 -0800, the infamous pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> scrawled the following:

>Let the Record show that "Buerste" <buerste@wowway.com> on or about
>Sun, 10 Jan 2010 06:56:05 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
>rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>
>>>> I agree that higher education is not shuffling through poor students.
>>>> But the K through 12 systems need work. I think you'll agree that
>>>> throwing unspecified money at the issue won't work. I use employment
>>>> applications that have simple math and word problems and have some
>>>> printed lines for the applicant to measure with a ruler. I bet you can
>>>> imagine what kind of answers I get on these simple tests.
>>>
>>> I've heard many horror stories about the low quality of people applying
>>> for jobs nowadays. It does seem like the average high school educated
>>> person doesn't know anything. It didn't used to be like that. I think when
>>> they took the discipline out of the schools it was the end of quality high
>>> school education.
>>>
>>>
>>>> What were you studying last?
>>>
>>> Political science, of course. Or are you asking for specifics like what
>>> kind of classes, program, etc.?
>>>
>>> Hawke
>>
>>What do you do with Political Science?
>
> Engineer the overthrow of the manager at the McDonalds where you
>work.

The Science of Politics, as pristine as the Science of Global Warming!
(as practiced by AGWK alarmists and the gov'ts they subvert.)

--============================================--
Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional.
---
http://diversify.com/handypouches.html ToolyRoo(tm)
and Possum(tm) Handy Pouches NOW AVAILABLE!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tech Support for Wingers
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/723ba3b846a4da69?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 1:56 pm
From: Cliff

On Sun, 10 Jan 2010 16:26:06 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net> wrote:

>Patriot Games <Patriot@America.Com> wrote:
>> Cliff wrote:
>
>>>Henry Kissinger promised reparations to Vietnam when the Vietnam peace
>>>accord was signed.
>>
>>Oops! Caught LYING, again.
>>
>>"I certainly told them innumerable times that we were not paying
>>ransom, we were not paying reparations..." - Kissinger 09/22/92.
>>http://www.aiipowmia.com/ssc/ssc71.html
>>
>>YOU said "Kissinger promised reparations to Vietnam."
>>
>>YOU LIED.
>
>Promised and kept the promise are not the same thing.
>
>http://xroads.virginia.edu/~MA01/lundy/v/political1.html
>Nixon gave Prime Minister Pham Van Dong a letter in 1973, which
>established financial post-war reconstruction...in the range of $3.25
>billion of grant aid over five years (Stern 11).
>...
>But when the numbers of prisoners released seemed woefully small, the
>Nixon administration did not provide the financial reparations pledged
>by the United States.
>
>http://www.stormingmedia.us/69/6937/A693734.html
>The Kissinger-Le Duc Tho package of "peace" agreements signed in Paris
>in 1973 contained commitments for U.S. financial aid to restore the
>war-torn Vietnamese economy. While the United States maintained that
>Hanoi's repeated violations of other parts of the accords rendered the
>offer of assistance null and void, ...
>
>http://25thaviation.org/id795.htm
>On January 27, 1973, all four parties to the Vietnam conflict-the
>United States, South Vietnam, the PRG, and North Vietnam-signed the
>Treaty of Paris. The final terms provided for the release of all
>American prisoners of war from North Vietnam; the withdrawal of all
>U.S. forces from South Vietnam; the end of all foreign military
>operations in Laos and Cambodia; a cease-fire between North and South
>Vietnam; the formation of a National Council of Reconciliation to help
>South Vietnam form a new government; and continued U.S. military and
>economic aid to South Vietnam. In a secret addition to the treaty
>Nixon also promised $3.25 billion in reparations for the
>reconstruction of ravaged North Vietnam, an agreement that Congress
>ultimately refused to uphold.

Yep. Wingers like dumb idiot Patriot Games
lie all the time.
Is it congenital idiocy or studied ignorance?
Pathetic in any case.

How can they imagine that will not get caught yet again?
VERY slow learners.
Like Palin.
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ROV in a bucket
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c983c2e79af4644e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 2:23 pm
From: axolotl

On 1/10/2010 9:40 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:

> Rutgers has some neat underwater devices. I especially like this one, which
> is especially clever:
>
> http://rucool.marine.rutgers.edu/index.php/COOL-Data/About-Slocum-Autonomous-Underwater-Gliders.html
>
> It completed a trans-Atlantic crossing last month, operating autonomously.
> That's some fuel efficiency:

As concerns the the AUV, Rutgers bought it from Webb Research (you can
have one too). No development there.

Here is an article with a little bit of technical information:

http://m.discovermagazine.com/1996/apr/athousanddivingr734

Kevin Gallimore

==============================================================================
TOPIC: White Power USA
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2af2be3d2501ed52?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 2:27 pm
From: Cliff

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/peopleandpower/2010/01/201015124739316797.html
[
Almost a year ago the inauguration of President Barack Obama was hailed as a
turning point in US race relations. The country was said to be entering a new
era of post-racial politics, on the path to a future of greater diversity and
tolerance.

But while crowds flocked to Washington to witness the swearing in, others were
refusing to join the party. Racially motivated threats against Obama rose to new
heights in the first months of his presidency, with the US seeing nine
high-profile race killings in 2009.

Meanwhile white supremacist and neo-Nazi groups claim their membership is
growing and that visits to their websites are increasing.

Is the racial undercurrent that has long structured US politics reasserting
itself?

Filmmakers Rick Rowley and Jacquie Soohen went inside the white nationalist
movement to investigate.

Some of the images seen and opinions heard in the film are disturbing.

This episode of People & Power airs from Wednesday, January 6, at the following
times GMT: Wednesday: 1230; Thursday: 0130, 1400, 1930; Friday: 0630, 1630;
Saturday: 0330, 2030; Sunday: 0030, 0530; Monday: 0830.
]

Watch the video.

Teabaggers.
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 'Extraordinary' Price Increases
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/366298616f4f221f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 2:34 pm
From: Cliff

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100111-713220.html?mod=WSJ_latestheadlines
"GAO: Some Drugs Had 'Extraordinary' Price Increases"
[
Prices for more than 400 brand-name drugs jumped extraordinarily, sometimes as
much as tenfold, in the last eight years and a lack of competition may be to
blame, the Government Accountability Office said on Monday.

Drugs with large price increases include Otsuka Pharmaceutical Co. and
Bristol-Myers Squibb Co.'s (BMY) antipsychotic drug Abilify, Sanofi-Aventis SA's
(SNY) sleep-aid Ambien and GlaxoSmithKline PLC's (GSK) anti-depression medicine
Paxil.

The report doesn't describe the price increases for each drug but mentions some
medicines with large price increases by name.

The GAO said a variety of reasons might factor into a drug-price increase, such
as a lack of competition and raw material disruption. The majority of price
increases came from drug repackagers, not the manufacturer of the medicine
itself, the GAO said. Abilify, Ambien and Paxil are repackaged medicines, the
GAO said.

The prices of brand-name drugs have been a sensitive topic as Congress grapples
with controlling health-care costs. Just a few weeks ago, the Senate voted down
a measure to allow the importation of cheaper prescription drugs from Canada
amid concerns rising costs for medicines are adding to the nation's deficit.
...
]

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Plot to Wreck America
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3bfa7ff9ba2c07ac?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Jan 11 2010 2:43 pm
From: Cliff

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/10/opinion/10rich.html
"The Other Plot to Wreck America "
[
THERE may not be a person in America without a strong opinion about what coulda,
shoulda been done to prevent the underwear bomber from boarding that Christmas
flight to Detroit. In the years since 9/11, we've all become counterterrorists.
But in the 16 months since that other calamity in downtown New York — the crash
precipitated by the 9/15 failure of Lehman Brothers — most of us are still
ignorant about what Warren Buffett called the "financial weapons of mass
destruction" that wrecked our economy. Fluent as we are in Al Qaeda and body
scanners, when it comes to synthetic C.D.O.'s and credit-default swaps, not so
much.

What we don't know will hurt us, and quite possibly on a more devastating scale
than any Qaeda attack. Americans must be told the full story of how Wall Street
gamed and inflated the housing bubble, made out like bandits, and then left
millions of households in ruin. Without that reckoning, there will be no public
clamor for serious reform of a financial system that was as cunningly breached
as airline security at the Amsterdam airport. And without reform, another
massive attack on our economic security is guaranteed. Now that it can count on
government bailouts, Wall Street has more incentive than ever to pump up its
risks — secure that it can keep the bonanzas while we get stuck with the losses.
.....
]

Naturally the rethugs will lie .... and demand even more deregulation &
tax cuts for their bestest $$ buddies ....
--
Cliff

==============================================================================

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Monday, January 11, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

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