twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 16 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SS shims
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/220498fd3dc0d8ab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 6:32 pm
From: Wayne

I need to make some donut shaped shims.
Thinnest is .012, largest .015.
One shim has a 10 mm I.D. and 17.5 mm O.D.
The other 15 mm I.D. and 33.5 mm O.D.
I only need a few of each.
Last ones I made where from brass. I sandwiched the
sheet between 2 boards and drilled the center hole.
Then I used snips for the O.D. They were not pretty,
but functional.

I'd like to make some out of SS this time, for more
durability and rust resistance. I haven't worked with SS.

McMaster has type 302 in an assortment pack.
I have no punches and would be too expensive for a couple shims.
Got a mill and lathe.
What's a good way to put the hole in and cut the OD in a
way that would look decent?

Wayne D.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:15 pm
From: "Bob La Londe"

"Wayne" <wayne1NOSPAM@operamail.com> wrote in message
news:cLP4n.24561$AO4.17985@newsfe02.iad...
> I need to make some donut shaped shims.
> Thinnest is .012, largest .015.
> One shim has a 10 mm I.D. and 17.5 mm O.D.
> The other 15 mm I.D. and 33.5 mm O.D.
> I only need a few of each.
> Last ones I made where from brass. I sandwiched the
> sheet between 2 boards and drilled the center hole.
> Then I used snips for the O.D. They were not pretty,
> but functional.
>
> I'd like to make some out of SS this time, for more
> durability and rust resistance. I haven't worked with SS.
>
> McMaster has type 302 in an assortment pack.
> I have no punches and would be too expensive for a couple shims.
> Got a mill and lathe.
> What's a good way to put the hole in and cut the OD in a
> way that would look decent?
>
> Wayne D.

Epoxy it to a sacrificial block, machine to size and shape, remove from
block with heat.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: USDA Climate Zone Changes 1990 to 2006
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2c644d95a02f628e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 6:40 pm
From: "HH&C"

On Jan 17, 9:23 pm, columbiaaccidentinvestigation
<columbiaaccidentinvestigat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Jan 17, 6:17 pm, "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 11, 1:21 am, columbiaaccidentinvestigation
>
> > <columbiaaccidentinvestigat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On Jan 10, 2:45 pm, "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > On Jan 9, 8:01 pm, columbiaaccidentinvestigation
>
> > > > <columbiaaccidentinvestigat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > On Jan 9, 3:33 pm, "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > On Jan 9, 1:50 pm, columbiaaccidentinvestigation
>
> > > > > > <columbiaaccidentinvestigat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > On Jan 9, 10:23 am, "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > On Jan 9, 11:12 am, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
>
> > > > > > > > dog.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > On 1/9/2010 8:01 AM, Cliff wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:42:23 -0500, Beam Me Up Scotty
> > > > > > > > > > <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-dog.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > >> On 1/8/2010 9:58 AM, Cliff wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 08:52:34 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
> > > > > > > > > >>> <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> HH&C wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> On Jan 3, 5:53 am, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:44:57 -0500, Beam Me Up Scotty
>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> In the last 30 years the orange/Citrus crop has moved more south-east in
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Florida to get out of the freeze that kills the fruit trees. There was
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> huge groves in Orlando and now they are gone.
>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> Lake and Marion counties have a lot of decaying, empty packing houses
> > > > > > > > > >>>> as well.
>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Need some water to wash away the salt?
>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Look up the 1986-1989 freezes that killed entire groves.
>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Your idea of warming is not panning out.
>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Facts are facts.
>
> > > > > > > > > >> Let me know when you have some.
>
> > > > > > > > > > You just have stale old long-debunked winger lies.
> > > > > > > > > > Give it up.
>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Even if people sometimes do try to grow the wrong trees in
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> the wrong places in the first place.
>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> Even though they were grown there for decades with little or no
> > > > > > > > > >>>> problem from freezing?
>
> > > > > > > > > >>> Naturally.
> > > > > > > > > >>> Did you think the trees were NATIVE to the area?
>
> > > > > > > > > >>>>>> And wingers lie anyway.
>
> > > > > > > > > >>>> Yes, and you should stop. All your ignorant lies are so obvious.
>
> > > > > > > > > >>> You can often get away with growing a crop for many years outside it's
> > > > > > > > > >>> native habitat.
> > > > > > > > > >>> Then sometimes you find out why it was not native there.
>
> > > > > > > > > >> You mean that is gets colder, instead of warmer? Odd that, that would
> > > > > > > > > >> happen amidst the Global Warming?
>
> > > > > > > > > >> The planet is Warmer everywhere except Orlando? How does that work,
> > > > > > > > > >> can you explain it to me?
>
> > > > > > > > > >> Call me a skeptic but, you'll need to prove that the Globe is actually
> > > > > > > > > >> warmer and then you need to show that I have caused it, before you can
> > > > > > > > > >> pass a law against it.
>
> > > > > > > > > > I note your flaming ignorance with some glee.
>
> > > > > > > > > Coming from the *SNAKE OIL SALESMAN HIMSELF* I take that as a great thing.
>
> > > > > > > > > I'll be using more CO2 fuels and warming the tar and plucking some
> > > > > > > > > feathers for the day we take care of You and Al Gore and send you out of
> > > > > > > > > town.
>
> > > > > > > > That's a good thing for Algore because it will mean more money in his
> > > > > > > > pocket
> > > > > > > > via the carbon tax, and that is the only thing this is about.
>
> > > > > > > > TAX
>
> > > > > > > > They view it like tithing in their religion.-
>
> > > > > > > oh man, the typical mantra of the right, but people like you won't
> > > > > > > admit that the private sector cannot provide an adequate safety net
> > > > > > > for the less fortunate in our society, and instead you need to hide
> > > > > > > behind bs posts like above.
>
> > > > > > Define "adequate safety net."
>
> > > > > > Poor people in other countries don't have cable TV, PS3, AC and cars.
>
> > > > > > I donate to people charities via payroll deduction, donate to food
> > > > > > pantries, and used to do a lot drives for charities via the BSA.
>
> > > > > > I donate my blood.
>
> > > > > > I'm beginning to think that I should stop all of my voluntary giving
> > > > > > and community service work because:
>
> > > > > > a. it is never enough, and b. the government is an unfair
> > > > > > competitor.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > Donate to make a difference in somebody's life who is less fortunate,
> > > > > not because you feel you are being out done by somebody else who has
> > > > > more, or by a larger entity. The point is that those who are less
> > > > > fortunate can benefit from private orgizations, but caring for the
> > > > > homeless and feeding the hungry is part of what i consider an adequate
> > > > > safety net. Building and maintaing such a net in hard economic times
> > > > > is not easy, but thats not a reason to give up and stop your voluntary
> > > > > donations, thats more like an excuse.
>
> > > > The excuse is that I directly fund such things and then I indirectly
> > > > fund the same sort of things through taxes.
>
> > > > And it never seems to be enough.
>
> > > > Is there a solution?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > You mean that you dont see a large enough effect from your donations.
> > > So maybe your efforts should also include local charities, for
> > > instance i was quite pleased to hear the stories of how the family
> > > members from our "adopted family" smiled upon delivery of christmas
> > > gifts. My suggestion to you is that maybe you should not think about
> > > attempting to solve poverty in the U.S. with your donations alone,
> > > just as much as you wouldnt expect your personal funds to create/
> > > sustain all the infrastructure for a thriving economy. But instead
> > > maybe you should concentrate on helping a family or families that are
> > > in need, and nearby to you such as the local adopt a head start family
> > > program did for my family this christmas. Now for efforts on a larger
> > > scale i would suggest you research your charities as to ensure your
> > > donations are being properly used, for their intended purposes. And
> > > on the same note, if you want to place tax dollars spent on our
> > > societies safety net on some sort of metric "of effectivness" based on
> > > how you feel, one would hope you are being objective and you would
> > > include tax dollars for DOD/DHS programs to that same test.
>
> > DOD/DHS are directly related to the good use of federal taxes as
> > authorized by the Constitution.
>
> > I donate to a local people charity and to an international people
> > charity. Hell, Curly is probably a recipient of the international
> > charity.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> That does not allow you to excuse one metric for one, and one for the
> other just because you dont like the program.

That's right. So my taxes presently pay for all kinds of things not
authorized by the Constitution.

> Your constitutional argument does not hold well for at all.

Not presently. We're working on it, though.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:20 pm
From: columbiaaccidentinvestigation

On Jan 17, 6:40 pm, "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 17, 9:23 pm, columbiaaccidentinvestigation
>
>
>
>
>
> <columbiaaccidentinvestigat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > On Jan 17, 6:17 pm, "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 11, 1:21 am, columbiaaccidentinvestigation
>
> > > <columbiaaccidentinvestigat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > On Jan 10, 2:45 pm, "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Jan 9, 8:01 pm, columbiaaccidentinvestigation
>
> > > > > <columbiaaccidentinvestigat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Jan 9, 3:33 pm, "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Jan 9, 1:50 pm, columbiaaccidentinvestigation
>
> > > > > > > <columbiaaccidentinvestigat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Jan 9, 10:23 am, "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > On Jan 9, 11:12 am, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
>
> > > > > > > > > dog.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > On 1/9/2010 8:01 AM, Cliff wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 10:42:23 -0500, Beam Me Up Scotty
> > > > > > > > > > > <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-dog.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > >> On 1/8/2010 9:58 AM, Cliff wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >>> On Fri, 08 Jan 2010 08:52:34 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
> > > > > > > > > > >>> <mike.terr...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > >>>> HH&C wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> On Jan 3, 5:53 am, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
> > > > > > > > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> On Sat, 02 Jan 2010 12:44:57 -0500, Beam Me Up Scotty
>
> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> In the last 30 years the orange/Citrus crop has moved more south-east in
> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Florida to get out of the freeze that kills the fruit trees. There was
> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> huge groves in Orlando and now they are gone.
>
> > > > > > > > > > >>>> Lake and Marion counties have a lot of decaying, empty packing houses
> > > > > > > > > > >>>> as well.
>
> > > > > > > > > > >>> Need some water to wash away the salt?
>
> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Look up the 1986-1989 freezes that killed entire groves.
>
> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>>> Your idea of warming is not panning out.
>
> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Facts are facts.
>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Let me know when you have some.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > You just have stale old long-debunked winger lies.
> > > > > > > > > > > Give it up.
>
> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> Even if people sometimes do try to grow the wrong trees in
> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> the wrong places in the first place.
>
> > > > > > > > > > >>>> Even though they were grown there for decades with little or no
> > > > > > > > > > >>>> problem from freezing?
>
> > > > > > > > > > >>> Naturally.
> > > > > > > > > > >>> Did you think the trees were NATIVE to the area?
>
> > > > > > > > > > >>>>>> And wingers lie anyway.
>
> > > > > > > > > > >>>> Yes, and you should stop. All your ignorant lies are so obvious.
>
> > > > > > > > > > >>> You can often get away with growing a crop for many years outside it's
> > > > > > > > > > >>> native habitat.
> > > > > > > > > > >>> Then sometimes you find out why it was not native there.
>
> > > > > > > > > > >> You mean that is gets colder, instead of warmer? Odd that, that would
> > > > > > > > > > >> happen amidst the Global Warming?
>
> > > > > > > > > > >> The planet is Warmer everywhere except Orlando? How does that work,
> > > > > > > > > > >> can you explain it to me?
>
> > > > > > > > > > >> Call me a skeptic but, you'll need to prove that the Globe is actually
> > > > > > > > > > >> warmer and then you need to show that I have caused it, before you can
> > > > > > > > > > >> pass a law against it.
>
> > > > > > > > > > > I note your flaming ignorance with some glee.
>
> > > > > > > > > > Coming from the *SNAKE OIL SALESMAN HIMSELF* I take that as a great thing.
>
> > > > > > > > > > I'll be using more CO2 fuels and warming the tar and plucking some
> > > > > > > > > > feathers for the day we take care of You and Al Gore and send you out of
> > > > > > > > > > town.
>
> > > > > > > > > That's a good thing for Algore because it will mean more money in his
> > > > > > > > > pocket
> > > > > > > > > via the carbon tax, and that is the only thing this is about.
>
> > > > > > > > > TAX
>
> > > > > > > > > They view it like tithing in their religion.-
>
> > > > > > > > oh man, the typical mantra of the right, but people like you won't
> > > > > > > > admit that the private sector cannot provide an adequate safety net
> > > > > > > > for the less fortunate in our society, and instead you need to hide
> > > > > > > > behind bs posts like above.
>
> > > > > > > Define "adequate safety net."
>
> > > > > > > Poor people in other countries don't have cable TV, PS3, AC and cars.
>
> > > > > > > I donate to people charities via payroll deduction, donate to food
> > > > > > > pantries, and used to do a lot drives for charities via the BSA.
>
> > > > > > > I donate my blood.
>
> > > > > > > I'm beginning to think that I should stop all of my voluntary giving
> > > > > > > and community service work because:
>
> > > > > > > a. it is never enough, and b. the government is an unfair
> > > > > > > competitor.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > > Donate to make a difference in somebody's life who is less fortunate,
> > > > > > not because you feel you are being out done by somebody else who has
> > > > > > more, or by a larger entity. The point is that those who are less
> > > > > > fortunate can benefit from private orgizations, but caring for the
> > > > > > homeless and feeding the hungry is part of what i consider an adequate
> > > > > > safety net. Building and maintaing such a net in hard economic times
> > > > > > is not easy, but thats not a reason to give up and stop your voluntary
> > > > > > donations, thats more like an excuse.
>
> > > > > The excuse is that I directly fund such things and then I indirectly
> > > > > fund the same sort of things through taxes.
>
> > > > > And it never seems to be enough.
>
> > > > > Is there a solution?- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > You mean that you dont see a large enough effect from your donations.
> > > > So maybe your efforts should also include local charities, for
> > > > instance i was quite pleased to hear the stories of how the family
> > > > members from our "adopted family" smiled upon delivery of christmas
> > > > gifts. My suggestion to you is that maybe you should not think about
> > > > attempting to solve poverty in the U.S. with your donations alone,
> > > > just as much as you wouldnt expect your personal funds to create/
> > > > sustain all the infrastructure for a thriving economy. But instead
> > > > maybe you should concentrate on helping a family or families that are
> > > > in need, and nearby to you such as the local adopt a head start family
> > > > program did for my family this christmas. Now for efforts on a larger
> > > > scale i would suggest you research your charities as to ensure your
> > > > donations are being properly used, for their intended purposes. And
> > > > on the same note, if you want to place tax dollars spent on our
> > > > societies safety net on some sort of metric "of effectivness" based on
> > > > how you feel, one would hope you are being objective and you would
> > > > include tax dollars for DOD/DHS programs to that same test.
>
> > > DOD/DHS are directly related to the good use of federal taxes as
> > > authorized by the Constitution.
>
> > > I donate to a local people charity and to an international people
> > > charity. Hell, Curly is probably a recipient of the international
> > > charity.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > That does not allow you to excuse one metric for one, and one for the
> > other just because you dont like the program.
>
> That's right. So my taxes presently pay for all kinds of things not
> authorized by the Constitution.
>
> > Your constitutional argument does not hold well for at all.
>
> Not presently. We're working on it, though.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

so once again, people like you dont want to admit that the private
sector cannot provide an adequate social safety net. So unless you
start to create exceptions to your argument, you are going down a
pretty pathetic path

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:34 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > Send them to Haiti.
>
> You know..thats not a bad idea. Afterall...what touchy-feely Leftwing
> Extremist wouldnt jump...jump at the chance to help his fellow man?
>
> Since the Leftwingers now control Amerika, both Presidentially and
> Congressionally...one would assume that they would pack up their goodies
> and their helping hands to help those in far far greater need then their
> own already Leftwing nation, no?
>
> Since the Haitians have lost about a half million of their own
> people...lets pack up Al Sharpton & Co as the advance men, and then
> start shipping over another half million Far Leftwing Extremists to fill
> in the void...hummm lets make that 3/4 million...pushy white people who
> have no defense against machete laden thugs might have a moderatly poor
> survival rate..but hey...one cant make an omlet without breaking a few
> eggs. Shucks..Ill even kick in $100 for their barge travel fees. And
> if they take a few illegal aliens with them as "labor"..it would be even
> a better thing.
>
> Can we pick the Leftwingers though? Since us Conservatives are known as
> having no heart and compassion, but are very logical, I'm sure we could
> do a marvelous job of putting all those social workers, community
> organizers and so forth, in the right slots, doncha think?

Start with the community organizers, followed by ACORN and pizza
delivery types. By then we can round up the welfare queens and brain
dead. Soon, they won't know they are in a different slum.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:35 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

HH&C wrote:
>
> I think Curly is from Argentina. They're probably due for another
> revolution any day now.

The third Tuesday of every month?

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Future of US Kids Making Stuff...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/253bc5f30a53bb1b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:07 pm
From: "anorton"

"cavelamb" <cavelamb@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4oKdndfWudJ4N87WnZ2dnUVZ_qVi4p2d@earthlink.com...
> anorton wrote:
>> "Pinstripe Sniper" <verysorry@nocando.com> wrote in message
>> news:4b5897b0.257350625@news.flex.com...
>>> I'm watching a dvd of "Front Runners" which is about the annual
>>> student body elections at the super nerdy Bedford Stuyvesant High
>>> School in New York City. It's a public high school so perhaps it
>>> represents the US population more so than a Phillips Academy.
>>> It's a charming glimpse into a world of smart, motivated young people.
>>>
>>> Where I am going with this is? Well most of us in RCM
>>> (rec.crafts.metalworking) like to make stuff and most of us probably
>>> started when we were young.
>>>
>>> I only know about the US and pose the question in the context of the
>>> US but I'd sure be interested in how other countries are fairing,
>>> especially those where manufacturing is healthy and expanding.
>>>
>>> I wonder if/where/how many of the young Americans nowadays get the
>>> inspiration to make stuff? (Kids of RCMers are probably in good
>>> shape)
>>>
>>> Aren't High School shop classes practically extinct?
>>> Plastic scale model building is like HAM radio and populated mostly by
>>> middle-aged dudes. (raises hand)
>>>
>>> I am told that Lego is doing pretty well.
>>>
>>> Is that robot wars combat tv show still going? BattleBots?
>>> Hey there's still Myth Busters.
>>>
>>> What sources of inspiration/motivation/education exist for our young
>>> people?
>>>
>>> PsS
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> A fictional account of how to drastically reform the financial world...
>>> More at http://PinstripeSniper.blogspot.com and if that gets banned,
>>> check
>>> www.PinstripeSniper.com
>>
>> The type of kid who used to be into ham radio or perhaps hot rods is now
>> building custom computers with overclocked quad processors, overclocked
>> DDR3 memory, dual graphics cards, diamond powder heat sink grease, water
>> cooling, LED case lights, etc. They have races with performance
>> benchmark programs.
>
>
> But all these guys would be doing is assembling pre-made parts.
>
> Who among them could wire-wrap a new circuit?
>
> --
>
> Richard Lamb
> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/
>
>
> "The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power
> to tell just when the hands will stop, at late or early hour...
> Now is the only time you own. Live, love, toil with a will.
> Place no faith in time. For the clock may soon be still."
>

What these folks do is a little more than plug and play. Actually I think it
is not that much different than hot rodding. You have to figure out what
components to buy that are compatible. Figure out how much cooling you
need, how big a power supply etc. Maybe you scrounge some things from older
systems. Then when you assemble it you have to debug it (wrong jumper or
bios settings etc.). Then you fiddle around with countless settings to
optimize it and add a few or more custom touches to the case. Its a
different set of skills, but it is a set of skills.

I bet there aren't even many electronic techs these days who wire wrap. I am
an optical engineer not electrical, but I have not seen a wire wrapped
circuit in a LONG time. I think it is a lot easier now to layout a circuit
in cad, print the transparency and get the board made. All the electrical
engineers I know do that even for prototypes now. They still end up
soldering a few jumper wires and cutting a few traces on the first article.
The younger guys who do this are the same ones who started out building
computers.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:35 pm
From: Jim Wilkins

On Jan 17, 10:07 pm, "anorton" <anor...@removethis.ix.netcom.com>
wrote:
> "cavelamb" <cavel...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>...
>
> I bet there aren't even many electronic techs these days who wire wrap. I am
> an optical engineer not electrical, but I have not seen a wire wrapped
> circuit in a LONG time....

[Raised hand]

I still do

With a pencil-like hand tool

In the snow

uphill

both ways

Strip the wire with my thumbnail, too.

jsw

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:50 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> On Jan 17, 10:07 pm, "anorton" <anor...@removethis.ix.netcom.com>
> wrote:
> > "cavelamb" <cavel...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >...
> >
> > I bet there aren't even many electronic techs these days who wire wrap. I am
> > an optical engineer not electrical, but I have not seen a wire wrapped
> > circuit in a LONG time....
>
> [Raised hand]
>
> I still do
>
> With a pencil-like hand tool
>
> In the snow
>
> uphill
>
> both ways
>
> Strip the wire with my thumbnail, too.

I have about 5,000 feet of 30 AWG wire on hand, and my hand wire wrap
tools. The only thing that stops me is Carpal Tunnel which makes it
almost impossible to hold those tools, or tiny screwdrivers. I tend to
drop them after about 30 seconds. :(

I do use some of it to repair broken copper traces, on my better
days. :)

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 8:22 pm
From: Joe Pfeiffer

With internet PCB fab houses out there with a 2-3 day turnaround...
haven't done any wire-wrapping in a long time. The tool is in my desk
drawer, though.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Horrible accident with an amazing end. Warning: OT
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3b65d88c38812725?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:09 pm
From: Jim Wilkins

On Jan 17, 8:31 pm, "David R.Birch" <dbi...@wi.rr.com> wrote:
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> > Jim Wilkins wrote:
> >> ...
> >> had a grapefruit-sized ball of compacted straw on his desk as a curio.
> >> Guess what it really was!
>
> > An unpolished turd.
>
> You beat me to it, I was going to say Cliff, too.
>
> David

It wasn't THAT offensive.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:37 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

"David R.Birch" wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> > Jim Wilkins wrote:
> >> IIRC it had been sold and the new exhibit wasn't ready, or something
> >> like that, so the original owner took it in. He even had elephants at
> >> his house for a while. An engineer I worked for who was his neighbor
> >> had a grapefruit-sized ball of compacted straw on his desk as a curio.
> >> Guess what it really was!
> >
> >
> > An unpolished turd.
>
> You beat me to it, I was going to say Cliff, too.

Cliffie & Hawkie are a subset of the 'unpolished turd' class.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Newer Bigger Better - Fix it First - Lathe Chuck - Rookie Mistakes
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/aa5aec2ebaced408?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:09 pm
From: "Bob La Londe"

As most folks probably do I wanted to get a little better quality out of my
cheap lathe. I bought a 4" 4 Jaw chuck from Little Machine Shop and an
adaptor plate. They claim all kinds of wonderfulness and accuracy.

It arrived Saturday, but I had a fishing tournament to go out and donate
some money to on Saturday, and I didn't get around to playing with it until
today. Actually this afternoon. I always sleep late the day after a
tournament. LOL.

Anyway, I check the plate to the plate on the lathe. Perfectly snug fit. I
mean if there was oil on it, and there wasn't a hole in the middle it would
pull a vacuum taking it off perfect. Cool I thought. Then I checked the
plate to the chuck. Same fit. I was excited. Man oh man this was going to
be awesome.

I bolted the plate to the chuck and retrieved the studs from the old chuck.
After lining up and assembling snugly I picked up the assembly to put it on
the lathe.

CLUNK!

No I didn't drop it. The bolt holes in the chuck where not tapped deep
enough to mount the plate solidly. The came up nearly a 1/16 short. Ok,
disassemble it again. Tap out the holes after I find the right tap, and
re-assemble.

Now to mount it on the lathe. I could feel that perfect fit slide together.
Oooh! Nice! Carefully I torque the holding nuts on the studs. Loose all
the way around, then snug all the way around, then tight all the way around.
I felt like a surgeon performing a delicate arterial graft.

Click, and watch expectantly for that butter smooth rotation to begin....
What, its wobbling like a drunken sailor. No kidding. It was bad. No
offense to any drunken sailors who might be reading this.

I took it apart, checked to make sure all my bolts cleared, and everything
was snugged and then torqued nicely. Everything was fine so I put it back
together just "knowing" that I most have been hallucinating the first time.
Nope. :^(

Wobble wobble wobble.

Then I thought maybe my lathe was just that crappy that it couldn't handle a
heavier chuck. While I watched it wallow its way around in a slow circles I
grabbed a scale and set up up next to the assembly to see if I could spot
the first place it was out of true. It was the adaptor plate. I had to
look three times and then I still didn't believe it. The adaptor plate that
was such a perfect fit to everything else was a full 1/32 out of true. I
could see the edge of the adaptor plate going back and forth on the front
and back side in relationship to everything else. The only other thing
visibly out of true was the chuck that was mounted on it.

I took everything back apart again and thought about it for a while. Then I
figured what the heck. I'll turn one side flat. As I was getting it
mounted back up with out the chuck so I could turn it I noticed a tiny dent
or flat spot on one edge of adaptor plate. I wonder if it could have been
dropped hard enough to bend it, and I wonder if it will try to find its old
shape over time? I guess only time will tell.

Turning it went ok except the hand ground left hand HSS cutter I ground
wouldn't touch it. I'm not kidding. It made a bunch of noise, but didn't
do anything. I reground the lathe bit three or four times and nothing.
Since it was the first HSS bit I have ground I was thinking it must be
something I was doing. Sharp point, rounded point, square point. Nothing.
Oh some metal came off, but is was mostly the bit. Ok. Break out a brand
new carbide cutter. Nothing. WHAT!? Oh, what an idiot. I was running the
lathe in reverse.

I resharpened the HSS bit again to a nice point and started removing
material. It made a whapping sound as the adaptor plate turned under it for
the first couple passes until it got close to true. By then I needed to
resharpen the bit again. A radius tip did a nice job of smoothing the
surface, and then resharpen to a point again to clean out the corners.

I dismounted the plate, and marked it with a file next to one of the studs.
I marked the matching stud hole with a file on the spindle mounted lathe
plate as well. That way it will go back on exactly the same way every time.

I carefully torqued the chuck onto the plate, and then I carefully torqued
the plate onto the lathe. Gently tighten all the way around, then snug
around, then tight around.

I flipped the switch expecting who knows what all kind of catastrophic
failure.

It looks good. I don't have a piece of precision rod to check it, but it
looks really good.

I suppose for an old hack machinist checking this sort of thing and
machining it true is routine, but for me it was quite an adventure.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Where to find springy metal strips?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/a9549d92a027cdab?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:11 pm
From: spaco

Dull band saw blades. Takes very little time to grind the teeth off.
Many of the guys here have the 4 X 6 bandsaws that take a 1/2" wide,
.025" thick blade that is 64 1/2" long.
The banding material discussed by others will stay bent if stressed
very far. These band saw blades are a lot closer to to a "spring", I'd say.

You could probably go to any fab shop and ask politely for a used, dull
band saw blade. The commercial ones are wider and thicker, but there is
often a small band saw someplace around.

Pete Stanaitis
---------------------------------------------------

james wrote:
> I have a project that requires a few strips of springy metal about half
> inch wide by 12 inch long.
>
> The same black metal used to make metal binder clips would be perfect:
> http://www.crestock.com/images/730000-739999/735610-xs.jpg
>
> Any idea where to buy such material?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: TV problem
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/d7b4a83f4e4e2773?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:35 pm
From: Joseph Gwinn

In article <1dWdnddyeOtr683WnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> >
> > In article <Sf6dnWdRF7TtR9LWnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> > "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > Courtesy license were issued to military radio & TV stations. They
> > > were issued for place keeping only, and to prevent a commercial station
> > > being licensed on the same area and frequencies. It had nothing to do
> > > with politics. The differences in the two licenses were: Power level:
> > > The license stated the initial power at the time it was issued, with the
> > > disclaimer, "OR AS DEEMED NECESSARY". The expiration date was: "UNTIL
> > > NO LONGER NEEDED". There are a lot of old records in the online FCC
> > > database, but no record of the stations I engineered at, at Ft. Greely
> > > in the early '70s.
> >
> > What a letdown. By your presentation, I suspected dark undercurrents.
>
> Most people have never even heard of a Courtesy license, let alone
> have any idea what they were. A lot of broadcast engineers have never
> heard of them, or seen one. :)

Well, as I said, I was not in the Broadcast Bureau.

> > > The FCC replaced the DOC as the ruling agency, and their first job
> > > was to clean up the mess of radio stations that interfered with each
> > > other. Once again this was an engineering problem, not political.
> > > Stations had been allowed on the air with little or no control.
> > >
> > > Early TV has similar problems, requiring the realignment of channel
> > > and power assignments. This was an engineering problem, not politics.
> >
> > Well, neither of us were at the FCC during this period, but having
> > worked there I have a lot of difficulty believing that they were ever
> > free of politics.
> >
> > Joe Gwinn
>
>
> Joe, the FCC was created because the DOC was purely political, and
> screwed up everything. They were to created to fix the technical
> problems. Once that was taken care of, the FCC turned into a typical,
> lawyer driven government agency. After all, someone had to fine the
> stations that didn't comply to their new rules. :)
>
> Do you know about the first TV channel realignment? When the '150
> mile rule' went into effect, a lot of TV stations had to move to a
> different channel.

I always guessed that after the FCC came into existence, there had to be
adjustments, as there were lots of problems with cochannel
intereference, and also with adjacent-channel interference (because TV
receivers didn't have to be that good, for economic reasons). There was
not going to be a no-impact solution. When I got there all this was
managed using a stack of big paper maps with the theoretical coverage
areas drawn on the maps for the co- and adajecent channels. I was
involved in replacing these maps with computers, at least for land
mobile radio services.

Joe Gwinn

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:47 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
>
> In article <1dWdnddyeOtr683WnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <Sf6dnWdRF7TtR9LWnZ2dnUVZ_hOdnZ2d@earthlink.com>,
> > > "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Courtesy license were issued to military radio & TV stations. They
> > > > were issued for place keeping only, and to prevent a commercial station
> > > > being licensed on the same area and frequencies. It had nothing to do
> > > > with politics. The differences in the two licenses were: Power level:
> > > > The license stated the initial power at the time it was issued, with the
> > > > disclaimer, "OR AS DEEMED NECESSARY". The expiration date was: "UNTIL
> > > > NO LONGER NEEDED". There are a lot of old records in the online FCC
> > > > database, but no record of the stations I engineered at, at Ft. Greely
> > > > in the early '70s.
> > >
> > > What a letdown. By your presentation, I suspected dark undercurrents.
> >
> > Most people have never even heard of a Courtesy license, let alone
> > have any idea what they were. A lot of broadcast engineers have never
> > heard of them, or seen one. :)
>
> Well, as I said, I was not in the Broadcast Bureau.
>
> > > > The FCC replaced the DOC as the ruling agency, and their first job
> > > > was to clean up the mess of radio stations that interfered with each
> > > > other. Once again this was an engineering problem, not political.
> > > > Stations had been allowed on the air with little or no control.
> > > >
> > > > Early TV has similar problems, requiring the realignment of channel
> > > > and power assignments. This was an engineering problem, not politics.
> > >
> > > Well, neither of us were at the FCC during this period, but having
> > > worked there I have a lot of difficulty believing that they were ever
> > > free of politics.
> > >
> > > Joe Gwinn
> >
> >
> > Joe, the FCC was created because the DOC was purely political, and
> > screwed up everything. They were to created to fix the technical
> > problems. Once that was taken care of, the FCC turned into a typical,
> > lawyer driven government agency. After all, someone had to fine the
> > stations that didn't comply to their new rules. :)
> >
> > Do you know about the first TV channel realignment? When the '150
> > mile rule' went into effect, a lot of TV stations had to move to a
> > different channel.
>
> I always guessed that after the FCC came into existence, there had to be
> adjustments, as there were lots of problems with cochannel
> intereference, and also with adjacent-channel interference (because TV
> receivers didn't have to be that good, for economic reasons). There was
> not going to be a no-impact solution. When I got there all this was
> managed using a stack of big paper maps with the theoretical coverage
> areas drawn on the maps for the co- and adajecent channels. I was
> involved in replacing these maps with computers, at least for land
> mobile radio services.

That sounds like no fun, considering a lot of them had errors. Also,
during that time some 'so called' frequency coordinators really screwed
up and did things like allowing a fleet of school buses on frequencies
reserved for ambulance service. Not only did they refuse to correct the
mistake, the bus drivers intentionally interfered with the dispatch of
ambulances.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: mostly OT, tire alien "please don't litter" sign/sculpture
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c9fcfe5468f93f7f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:40 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

William Wixon wrote:
>
> thanks again.
> (not to belabor this thread...)
> yeah, i agree, i'm sure it's going to be vandalized. almost would be good
> though if they steal it, a creative way to dispose of dumped tires. i was
> figuring it'll be rammed with a truck (that's what keeps happening to the
> plywood signs), at least this one is rubber, maybe it'll mostly bounce.
>
> http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/happyjoypleasedon'tlitter.jpg
>
> i change the seasonal message, try to make it cute hoping people would be
> less inclined to smash 'em.
> (these locations are traditional dumping areas (two different signs
> pictured), seems the dumping has "stopped", much to everyone's surprise.)
> (i pull the "patriotic" card with the (u.s.) flag(s), last time someone
> smashed the one sign they stole the flag.)
> (the sportsmen's club that leases the farm land put the posted sign.)
> (i made another one, plasma cut (about 8"~12" tall) letters out of 5 gal.
> vegetable oil cans from the chinese joint, "keep" "america" "beautiful".
> "beautiful" was over 6 feet long. "keep" and "america" are still there but
> shortly after i put them up someone vandalized "beautiful", twice, then it
> disappeared altogether. i found it in the woods a few months later, i
> repaired it but haven't mustered the motivation yet to reinstall it.)

Too bad you can't install it with some C4. One swing, or hit with a
truck and BOOOOOOMMMM!!! :)

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What regulator is this
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/04e65316200ce042?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:47 pm
From: Ignoramus15099

I have never seen a connector like this... Any idea?

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/tmp-6161.jpg

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Off to LA
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6ff2620d60bf3908?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:50 pm
From: "Steve B"

"Gunner Asch" <gunner@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:3hl6k5pu67j9puoviuk9c82pp02noqn3q4@4ax.com...
> See you lads in a few days..Im off to LA.
>
> "Ill be back. "
>
> Gunner

Was in San Pedro debarking from a cruise Saturday. If a big red Dodge truck
nearly ran into you while he was getting on the freeway, it wasn't me
...........

Steve

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Statistics for week ending 20100111
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1f3862b73624da05?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:53 pm
From: "Steve B"

hmmmmmmmmm.

I'm nowhere to be found.

Guess that silences my detractors.

Steve

==============================================================================
TOPIC: wholesale Official Celtics #9 RONDO green nba jersey, replica Official
NBA Jerseys
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/d88fe76b3a260262?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 7:56 pm
From: xiaoshu ouyang

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Duct Tape Story
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8c049f3c2febe757?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 8:01 pm
From: Cliff

http://www.rense.com/general89/duct.htm

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Price check Iggy, Gunner, et al.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fad640e058330c82?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 8:20 pm
From: GeoLane at PTD dot NET

>>Nope. The seller cancelled the visit when I told him I was thinking
>>in the $500 range and his starting price was $3000. His isn't the
>>only machine in the US.
>>
>>RWL

>Sounds like he is living in a very sheltered location..or his own
>private fantasy world. Or the thing is brand new. Shrug
>
>Which part of the US do you live in? Ill look around a bit.
>
>Gunner

Thanks, but probably not economically feasible. I'm in central PA. I
don't see them very often on the Craigslists near me, but they do show
up.
The guy that cancelled the visit lived outside Philadelphia. A dealer
in the Scranton area gave me a rough quote of $1500 for a tooled
K.O.Lee that he's waiting to arrive when the riggers get it out of the
factory.

RWL

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sources: Obama advisers believe Coakley will lose
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e3a8a857d084ef81?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 8:20 pm
From: "Burled Frau"

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/01/17/sources-obama-advisers-believe-coakley-will-lose/

January 17, 2010
Sources: Obama advisers believe Coakley will lose
Posted: January 17th, 2010 04:22 PM ET

From CNN Senior White House Correspondent Ed Henry

Washington (CNN) - Multiple advisers to President Obama have privately told
party officials that they believe Democrat Martha Coakley is going to lose
Tuesday's special election to fill the Massachusetts Senate seat held by the
late Ted Kennedy for more than 40 years, several Democratic sources told CNN
Sunday.

The sources added that the advisers are still hopeful that Obama's visit to
Massachusetts on Sunday - coupled with a late push by Democratic activists -
could help Coakley pull out a narrow victory in an increasingly tight race
against Republican state Sen. Scott Brown.

However, the presidential advisers have grown increasingly pessimistic in
the last three days about Coakley's chances after a series of missteps by
the candidate, sources said.

But White House spokesman Bill Burton told CNN: "The President is in
Massachusetts today because he believes Martha Coakley is the right person
for the job and indeed will be the next senator from Massachusetts."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Patriots cause Teleprompter to get ahead of Obama
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/497f2ab7f1a9345c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Jan 17 2010 8:25 pm
From: "Burled Frau"

video

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2010/01/17/obama_heckled_at_coakley_rally.html

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Sunday, January 17, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 16 topics - digest

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