twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 24 new messages in 10 topics

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Forte down again, trying Eternal-September
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5a7cf73661cbc3eb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:04 pm
From: Steve Ackman

In <hki64c$uin$1@news.eternal-september.org>, on Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:34:32
-0500, Wes, clutch@lycos.com wrote:
> Yes, this is a test. Thanks Steve.

Hey!!! They have test groups for that, you know! ;-)

--
☯☯

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT-Social Security $28 billion in the hole
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5e543d07a3e16308?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:19 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

Ed Huntress wrote:
> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
> news:_tadnW5xOvhecPHWnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>>> news:AL-dnfxDdfZHIfHWnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>>> "Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hkicg7$15h$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>> You ought to use a more current example Ed.
>> I've had people respond that "things are different now" which is the
>> equivelant of "doesn't count".
>> LOL
>> When Belgium entered the EU they were a 240 percent of GDP, IIRC.
>> Today, they enjoy a higher standard of living than American's do.
>> That does count.
>>
>
> Yeah, but I avoid using European countries as examples when I'm
> talking to self-styled "fiscal conservatives."
>
> The whole issue is whether you can grow your way out of the debt. We
> have in the past, and there are plenty of examples from around the
> world to show what the economic pattern is that makes it happen.
>
> And the final point is this: If we can get a good rate of growth
> going, we'll wonder before long what we were worried about. If we
> can't get it going, we're screwed anyway. The best shot at getting it
> moving, now that monetary controls have crapped out and we're at
> near-zero interest, if deficit spending. National debt won't matter
> much if we stall out, like Japan did for over a decade, and like it's
> doing again.
>
> If that happens, we'll all be on tenterhooks -- the US, Europe, and
> Japan -- hoping that we don't have a sharp downturn in the middle of
> it. The only way out of that, should you have a big downturn while
> the debt is piled up, is to inflate your way out (problematic, if
> the economy is slumping to begin with) or to default. Neither one is
> a happy option.
>
> So we should be doing everything possible to stimulate growth. It's
> looking fairly good, except now we're entering the 1937 moment:
> Conservatives are saying to stop the deficit spending now that GDP
> has flattened out. That's just what they said in '37, which we did,
> and which whip-sawed us into the second phase of the Depression.

It isn't just Republican's Ed.
I posted my analysis of the worlds debt position here a while back and it's
coming to fruition.
I said we ought to get in and root out all of the crappy derivative products
before they had our lunch and that the cost, whatever it was, would look
like peanuts to the alternative of not doing so. The world might well be in
deep poo 90 or 120 days or so from now.
My guess is that the world is about to shed 30 trillion dollars of equity
and debt combined. That will take about 9 months or so to accomplish and it
won't be as "orderly" as the 2008 beating either financially or socially.
The "Great Cull" that Gunner prays for won't happen but there is going to be
a great deal of the culling he's become a part of. It's a 50/50 thing in my
estimation but the odds against don't improve. Doing nothing or making no
descision is really a decision in itself and that seems to be the path we
are on.

I'd get another trillion dollars or more in the pipeline today if it were up
to me.

--
John R. Carroll

== 2 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:23 pm
From: "Bill McKee"

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:x4ydncBS4IIvLPHWnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Wes wrote:
>> "Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>> SS can not borrow money, but they can require the General Fund of
>>> the US government to start repaying the IOU's it gave SSA for all
>>> the extra money that SS had over the years. Unfortunately that
>>> money has already been blown by Congress, so we will get tax
>>> increases to pay back the money they borrowed from the taxpayers.
>>>
>>
>> I knew my 401K was at risk.
>>
>> "That's some catch, that Catch-22," Yossarian observed.
>> "It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed.
>
> Those IOU's are treasury bills Wes, the worlds best and most reliable
> paper.
> The risk to your 401K is as large or small as the assets it contains, not
> the assets contained in the SS Trust Fund.
> Believe me, the day you can't take a Savings Bond, which is basically what
> is in the SS Trust Fund, to the window and get money we'll all have bigger
> problems than Social Security.
>
> Think about it for a minute. When the SS Trust Fund buys a T-Bill, it's
> one
> less that has to be sold to the Chinese.
> In the absence of enough cash on hand at Treasury, the Federal Reserve
> will
> jus print money.
> That, my friend, is exactly how WWII was financed and if economic outcome
> looks like that, you and Tom will both be shitting in the tallest cotton
> on
> earth. We all will be.
> LOL
>
> --
> John R. Carroll
>
>

Unfortunately for you. Is that T-bill when it is cashed in requires money
being paid. And since the government does not have any extra money to buy
back the bill, they either have to print more, causing inflation or tax the
people for the money.

== 3 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:25 pm
From: "Bill McKee"

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:tPCdnR1RFKRjLPHWnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Bill McKee wrote:
>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>> news:HNGdnbi2SIvEDfHWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> azotic wrote:
>>>> A report from the Congressional Budget Office shows that for the
>>>> first time in 25 years, Social Security is taking in less in taxes
>>>> than it is spending on benefits.Instead of helping to finance the
>>>> rest of the government, as it has done for decades, our nation's
>>>> biggest social program needs help from the Treasury to keep benefit
>>>> checks from bouncing -- in other words, a taxpayer bailout.
>>>>
>>>> Social Security will be $28 billion in the hole this fiscal year,
>>>> which ends Sept. 30.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/02/news/economy/social_security_bailout.fortune/index.htm
>>>>
>>>> Exporting jobs finally shows results...............
>>>
>>> Hey Tom, this was known to be on the horizon.
>>> The Treasury doesn't need to help anyone because the huge surplus's
>>> will now
>>> be used, as intended, to cover benefit payments.
>>> The downturn in our economy has certainly reduced revenues, and that
>>> needs to be adressed but SS will NEVER, and isn't able to borrow
>>> money. Taxes can
>>> go up and benefit payments can be reduced but that's about it.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> SS can not borrow money, but they can require the General Fund of the
>> US government to start repaying the IOU's it gave SSA for all the
>> extra money that SS had over the years.
>
> No, they can't.
> They can't require anything.
> See my response to Wes.
>
>
> --
> John R. Carroll
>
>

Yes they can. They could most likely get a court to order the government to
pay the money. As Ed says, that is why we laugh when they say the ss trust
fund.

== 4 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:20 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:8Iqdncqn4_CMYfHWnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Ed Huntress wrote:
>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>> news:_tadnW5xOvhecPHWnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>>>> news:AL-dnfxDdfZHIfHWnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>>>> "Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:hkicg7$15h$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>> You ought to use a more current example Ed.
>>> I've had people respond that "things are different now" which is the
>>> equivelant of "doesn't count".
>>> LOL
>>> When Belgium entered the EU they were a 240 percent of GDP, IIRC.
>>> Today, they enjoy a higher standard of living than American's do.
>>> That does count.
>>>
>>
>> Yeah, but I avoid using European countries as examples when I'm
>> talking to self-styled "fiscal conservatives."
>>
>> The whole issue is whether you can grow your way out of the debt. We
>> have in the past, and there are plenty of examples from around the
>> world to show what the economic pattern is that makes it happen.
>>
>> And the final point is this: If we can get a good rate of growth
>> going, we'll wonder before long what we were worried about. If we
>> can't get it going, we're screwed anyway. The best shot at getting it
>> moving, now that monetary controls have crapped out and we're at
>> near-zero interest, if deficit spending. National debt won't matter
>> much if we stall out, like Japan did for over a decade, and like it's
>> doing again.
>>
>> If that happens, we'll all be on tenterhooks -- the US, Europe, and
>> Japan -- hoping that we don't have a sharp downturn in the middle of
>> it. The only way out of that, should you have a big downturn while
>> the debt is piled up, is to inflate your way out (problematic, if
>> the economy is slumping to begin with) or to default. Neither one is
>> a happy option.
>>
>> So we should be doing everything possible to stimulate growth. It's
>> looking fairly good, except now we're entering the 1937 moment:
>> Conservatives are saying to stop the deficit spending now that GDP
>> has flattened out. That's just what they said in '37, which we did,
>> and which whip-sawed us into the second phase of the Depression.
>
> It isn't just Republican's Ed.
> I posted my analysis of the worlds debt position here a while back and
> it's
> coming to fruition.
> I said we ought to get in and root out all of the crappy derivative
> products
> before they had our lunch and that the cost, whatever it was, would look
> like peanuts to the alternative of not doing so. The world might well be
> in
> deep poo 90 or 120 days or so from now.
> My guess is that the world is about to shed 30 trillion dollars of equity
> and debt combined. That will take about 9 months or so to accomplish and
> it
> won't be as "orderly" as the 2008 beating either financially or socially.
> The "Great Cull" that Gunner prays for won't happen but there is going to
> be
> a great deal of the culling he's become a part of. It's a 50/50 thing in
> my
> estimation but the odds against don't improve. Doing nothing or making no
> descision is really a decision in itself and that seems to be the path we
> are on.
>
> I'd get another trillion dollars or more in the pipeline today if it were
> up
> to me.
>
> --
> John R. Carroll

Jeez, there's a lot of apocalyptic thinking going around. <g> Maybe it's
time to dig out my copy of _How To Live In the Woods on Pennies a Day_.
Bradford Angier, wasn't it? He used to be an ad copywriter, too...

Anyway, maybe, and I'm really curious to see what would happen if we let all
of the derivatives and hot air out of the balloon. It's like standing on an
ice flow in the Bering Sea and wondering what would happen if it started to
break into little pieces.

--
Ed Huntress

== 5 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:52 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:vb6dnW1QSOGSmvDWnZ2dnUVZ_t-dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>
> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
> news:x4ydncBS4IIvLPHWnZ2dnUVZ_vydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Wes wrote:
>>> "Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> SS can not borrow money, but they can require the General Fund of
>>>> the US government to start repaying the IOU's it gave SSA for all
>>>> the extra money that SS had over the years. Unfortunately that
>>>> money has already been blown by Congress, so we will get tax
>>>> increases to pay back the money they borrowed from the taxpayers.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I knew my 401K was at risk.
>>>
>>> "That's some catch, that Catch-22," Yossarian observed.
>>> "It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed.
>>
>> Those IOU's are treasury bills Wes, the worlds best and most reliable
>> paper.
>> The risk to your 401K is as large or small as the assets it contains, not
>> the assets contained in the SS Trust Fund.
>> Believe me, the day you can't take a Savings Bond, which is basically
>> what
>> is in the SS Trust Fund, to the window and get money we'll all have
>> bigger
>> problems than Social Security.
>>
>> Think about it for a minute. When the SS Trust Fund buys a T-Bill, it's
>> one
>> less that has to be sold to the Chinese.
>> In the absence of enough cash on hand at Treasury, the Federal Reserve
>> will
>> jus print money.
>> That, my friend, is exactly how WWII was financed and if economic outcome
>> looks like that, you and Tom will both be shitting in the tallest cotton
>> on
>> earth. We all will be.
>> LOL
>>
>> --
>> John R. Carroll
>>
>>
>
> Unfortunately for you. Is that T-bill when it is cashed in requires money
> being paid. And since the government does not have any extra money to buy
> back the bill, they either have to print more, causing inflation or tax
> the people for the money.

Duh...yeah, that's where the government gets its money. It's either taxes or
the printing press. (Or we could steal it from other countries, but we don't
do that anymore.) It's been that way forever.

As for the old monetarist idea that printing more money causes inflation --
we've been printing it like crazy, adding about $140 Billion since the
middle of 2008:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?chart_type=line&s[1][id]=CURRENCY&s[1][range]=5yrs

But where's the inflation? Glenn Beck said it would be roaring away six
months ago:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?chart_type=line&s[1][id]=CPIAUCSL&s[1][range]=5yrs

Hmm...it looks like we had more inflation BEFORE we started printing all
that money. Strange, huh?

Maybe it's because of this:

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/graph/?chart_type=line&s[1][id]=MULT&s[1][range]=5yrs

If Glenn Beck and his fellow idiots understood money multipliers and
velocity, maybe they wouldn't be misleading so many people to believe we're
on the road to perdition.

But probably not. It wouldn't serve their purposes to have their audience
actually *understand* this stuff. They'd stop watching. It would mean the
end of the Tea Party, and where would people go to show their posters of
Obama painted as Hitler? It would kill off an important source of American
Primitive political art.

--
Ed Huntress

== 6 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:53 pm
From: F. George McDuffee

On Fri, 5 Feb 2010 21:19:00 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
<nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
<snip a bunch of good stuff>

>It isn't just Republican's Ed.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/232878
How many more of these are in our legislatures and congress?
{makin' laws for all mankind}

>I posted my analysis of the worlds debt position here a while back and it's
>coming to fruition.
>I said we ought to get in and root out all of the crappy derivative products
>before they had our lunch and that the cost, whatever it was, would look
>like peanuts to the alternative of not doing so.
This is much like treating a boil or carbuncle. Until it is
lanced and the core/pus removed it will never heal, albeit this
may be very painful and even debilitating for a few days.

>The world might well be in
>deep poo 90 or 120 days or so from now.
>My guess is that the world is about to shed 30 trillion dollars of equity
>and debt combined. That will take about 9 months or so to accomplish and it
>won't be as "orderly" as the 2008 beating either financially or socially.
>The "Great Cull" that Gunner prays for won't happen but there is going to be
>a great deal of the culling he's become a part of.
Gunner may have found his niche is the only area of growth in
U.S. economy, the liquidation and salvaging of manufacturing and
other industrial assets as part of the non-cash/informal sector
ala much of the third world.

>It's a 50/50 thing in my
>estimation but the odds against don't improve. Doing nothing or making no
>descision is really a decision in itself and that seems to be the path we
>are on.
Most unfortunately, you appear to be entirely correct in your
analysis.

*ALL* the objective/hard data points this direction as well as
the objective/soft data and financial analysis from people I
trust. My only demur is that it may well be that the ship hits
the rocks at the end of the current quarter [01 April] rather
than drifting for 90 days before sinking.

Some areas of particular concern are the bursting of the U.S.
municipal bond bubble, in spite of the "Build America" extension,
and/or the bursting of the commodities bubbles. Another area is
the total lack of honesty/transparency of governmental
accounting, which unfortunately is not limited to Greece, e.g.
the secret ledgers of the U.S. FRB.

It appears that the extent of major U.S. [and other] financial
institutional exposure [and thus taxpayer liability] to the Euro
zone sovereign debt problems and/or new bubble collapse through
direct investment, loans to speculators, and CDS/derivative
counter parties is totally unknown, but after a big loss most
gamblers "double down" or even go "all in" in an attempt to
recoup their losses.
>
>I'd get another trillion dollars or more in the pipeline today if it were up
>to me.
One the one hand this may be correct, on the other hand it may
well be sending good money after bad.

We have already spent trillions on top of the trillions of
capital/asset losses with no effect. Still no
Glass-Steagall-Volker. Still no "small enough to fail" size
caps. Still no derivative regulation. Still no lynchings.

Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

== 7 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 11:00 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"William Wixon" <wwixon@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:Ax2bn.79094$CM7.59263@newsfe04.iad...
>
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4b6cb1e4$0$22515$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>
>
>>>
>>> Agreed, my intrest is in finding data that gives a clear picture of how
>>> much revenue
>>> in the form fica and medicare taxes is being lost due to exporting jobs,
>>> i havent been
>>> able to find any data and am wondering if anyone is even tracking it.
>>>
>>> Best Regards
>>> Tom.
>>
>> You really won't find any data, Tom. What you'll find is endless
>> arguments.
>>
>> This happens to be exactly what I'm working on right now. Based on my
>> first attempt to track this down around five years ago, my guess is that
>> it will take me at least six or seven months of steady research before I
>> have anything worth saying about it -- and I know I won't have a clear
>> answer, even then.
>>
>> The issue is the net effect, in terms of jobs, types of jobs, and incomes
>> going both ways.
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>>
>
> you saying that ed makes me wonder if ANYBODY knows, if this is yet
> another massive uncontrolled experiment. they were just going on ideology
> when they started this instead of having any idea how it was going to turn
> out.

It's theory. It begins with the theory of comparative advantage (it's not
what most people think -- don't confuse it with *absolute* advantage, as the
terms are used in economics).

Then they can show pretty good correlations between growth of GDP and trade
liberalization -- at least, among equally developed countries. Then they can
show job growth in a free-trade regime.

If that's all there was to it, the matter would be settled. But that's not
all there is. The issue I'm trying to track is what kinds of jobs replace
the ones that are lost. That's much harder to do than you might think. And
there's much more to account for.

It's complicated.

--
Ed Huntress

== 8 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 11:46 pm
From: F. George McDuffee

On Sat, 6 Feb 2010 02:00:46 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
<huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:

>
>"William Wixon" <wwixon@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
>news:Ax2bn.79094$CM7.59263@newsfe04.iad...
>>
>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:4b6cb1e4$0$22515$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> Agreed, my intrest is in finding data that gives a clear picture of how
>>>> much revenue
>>>> in the form fica and medicare taxes is being lost due to exporting jobs,
>>>> i havent been
>>>> able to find any data and am wondering if anyone is even tracking it.
>>>>
>>>> Best Regards
>>>> Tom.
>>>
>>> You really won't find any data, Tom. What you'll find is endless
>>> arguments.
>>>
>>> This happens to be exactly what I'm working on right now. Based on my
>>> first attempt to track this down around five years ago, my guess is that
>>> it will take me at least six or seven months of steady research before I
>>> have anything worth saying about it -- and I know I won't have a clear
>>> answer, even then.
>>>
>>> The issue is the net effect, in terms of jobs, types of jobs, and incomes
>>> going both ways.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ed Huntress
>>>
>>
>> you saying that ed makes me wonder if ANYBODY knows, if this is yet
>> another massive uncontrolled experiment. they were just going on ideology
>> when they started this instead of having any idea how it was going to turn
>> out.
>
>It's theory. It begins with the theory of comparative advantage (it's not
>what most people think -- don't confuse it with *absolute* advantage, as the
>terms are used in economics).
This a particularly good place to start. "Comparative advantage"
assumes that the means of production are fixed within a country,
and the question is what should these means of production be used
to produce. As soon as the means of production,[manpower,
machinery, material, methods and money] especially capital are
free to move, "comparative advantage" disappears and only
absolute advantage remains. It should be noted that one of the
shibboleths of the "brave new world order" is the free flow of
capital, thus it is an oxymoron to invoke "comparative advantage"
in the current conditions.
see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage
<snip>
Ricardo explicitly bases his argument on an assumed immobility of
capital:

" ... if capital freely flowed towards those countries where
it could be most profitably employed, there could be no
difference in the rate of profit, and no other difference in the
real or labour price of commodities, than the additional quantity
of labour required to convey them to the various markets where
they were to be sold."[3]

He explains why from his point of view (anno 1817) this is a
reasonable assumption: "Experience, however, shows, that the
fancied or real insecurity of capital, when not under the
immediate control of its owner, together with the natural
disinclination which every man has to quit the country of his
birth and connexions, and entrust himself with all his habits
fixed, to a strange government and new laws, checks the
emigration of capital."
<snip>

Other problems with traditional analysis of "comparative
advantage" are the shift from counter trade to money, and the
existence of three trading partners, one of which "hogs" all the
benefits. FWIW -- in physics a three body problem is
indeterminate.

For my analysis of why "comparative advantage" does not apply in
the current milieu see pages 200-211
http://mcduffee-associates.us/dissertation/compdsrt.pdf

>
>Then they can show pretty good correlations between growth of GDP and trade
>liberalization -- at least, among equally developed countries. Then they can
>show job growth in a free-trade regime.

Who gives a flying flip about GDP/GNP? The increasing GINI
coefficient clearly shows the rich are getting richer and poor
are getting poorer.
>
>If that's all there was to it, the matter would be settled. But that's not
>all there is.
In a nutshell the high skill high pay manufacturing jobs are
replaced by low skill low pay service jobs to reduce direct
costs. Then legal and illegal immigrants are admitted in large
numbers to do the low skill/low pay service jobs to keep the
wages/costs down. The problem is that your high skill / high
wage employees are some one else's customers (and taxpayers), and
when everyone does this, they kill the goose that laid the golden
eggs.

>The issue I'm trying to track is what kinds of jobs replace
>the ones that are lost. That's much harder to do than you might think. And
>there's much more to account for.
Loss of benefits and shift to contract/temp work are also a
factor. Loss of job security and forced career change/relocation
are other major problems.
>
>It's complicated.
Indeed it is, but follow "Deep Throat's" advice, "follow the
money," and cut the crap.

== 9 of 9 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 11:50 pm
From: "azotic"

"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4b6d0a0f$0$31258$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>
> Anyway, maybe, and I'm really curious to see what would happen if we let
> all of the derivatives and hot air out of the balloon. It's like standing
> on an ice flow in the Bering Sea and wondering what would happen if it
> started to break into little pieces.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
>

Corporate war games:

Scenario, deratives cause a major meltdown. The government decides to let
wallstreet sort out thier own mess, approves total deregulation. Wallstreet
is on its own.
No infusion of taxpayer money to wallstreet. Government bails out people and
extends unemployment pay indefinitely at 90%
of the workers base pay until they find work. Federal usury law passed
limiting intrest to 5% a year, fees and penalties for late
payments are outlawed. Executive compensation is limited to no more than 1
million dollars a year total.

Speculate ????

Best Regards
Tom,.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Clausing magnetic switch won't latch
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/774334033ed7222c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:39 pm
From: "Existential Angst"

<GeoLane at PTD dot NET> wrote in message
news:5gqpm5pfjvbqqjn4k38vd6f5nkb29hrjc9@4ax.com...
>I bought a 5914 Clausing lathe last weekend. I"m running it off of a
> rotary phase converter, that at this point does not have balancing
> capacitors.
>
> The drum switch on the lathe has a set of momentary contacts inside
> that activate the magnetic switch when you move the handle a little
> past the forward or reverse position. When the momentary contacts are
> closed, the switch pulls up and the motor runs, but the mag switch
> drops out as soon as the momentary contacts are released.
>
> I have tried exchanging the different leads from the RPC to the lathe
> so that the wild leg wouldn't be part of the mag switch circuit and
> that didn't solve the problem.
>
> The wiring inside the drum switch was not standard, and connecting the
> power lines to the places it had been when previously, it didn't run.
> Same symptom - switch would pull up ,but not latch and motor ran with
> a pulsation / vibration. I got the wiring diagram from Clausing and
> rewired it to factory standard. Still won't latch. Using the drum
> switch and bypassing the mag switch works fine. The motor itself
> seems to be OK.
>
>
> What I can see from the wiring diagram supplied by Clausing and from
> the diagram inside the mag switch box, it appears that all is wired
> correctly. I am having difficulty following the flow of power in the
> switch. The diagram has me confused.
>
> Any thoughts on trouble shooting?

Contactors need an extra NO ancillary switch ("latch switch") which bridges
across the momentary start switch, keeping the relay coil energized.
A momentary stop switch is then in series this switch/coil.

If there were a 4th pole on the relay, this could be used, also.

This latch switch could be bad, or just not wired in. I've seen these
switches go bad.
Or, the mechanical connection of this switch to the relay is loose, so it is
not "making". Sometimes the switch itself is loose, as these switches can
be often be added on, taken off, etc.
--
EA

>
> RWL

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:25 pm
From: "Existential Angst"

Please do balance yer rpc! I burnt out a lot of shit with that goddamm wild
leg!!

It's actually perty simple to do, much simpler than many of diy sites (and
std web refs) recommended here make it out to be -- imho. Altho some of
those setups are indeed enviable...

I did a very complicated multi-motor (staged) and switchable multi-capacitor
system, whose magnitude of pita factor (and expense) I didn't really grok
until my buddy asked me to build one for him.... holy shit.....

So out of desperation, I did nearly as good a system for him, with *much*
greater simplicity.

First, these asshole rpc mfr's put starting caps that are way too large,
which further bumps up the voltage of the wild (generated) leg. You can
proly cut that down those caps by half to 1/3 -- which immediately improves
the V of the wild leg -- and which means if multiple caps were used, you
can use the extra caps to balance the rpc.

If line V is L1L2, and the starting caps were on L1L3, you add the balance
to L2L3. Except put a switch (S2) in the caps between L2L3.

How much capacitance to start the rpc? Whatever "sounds" reasonable. You
don't need the motor to instantly get up to speed (as these effing rpc mfr's
seem to think is so important), but you don't want it to take 10 secs,
either.
About 1 sec seems OK.

I've forgotten exact values, but I seem to remember about 100 uF to start,
60-80 to balance. Season to taste.
If you have a good ear, you'll notice that the right balance of caps
(tightest V) results in the lowest hum/buzz of the motor.

So now, to start the rpc, make sure S2 is off, and start the rpc as normal.
Then, just flip S2. Wahlah....
Iow, the reduced value starting caps also stay in as balancing caps, and are
always active.
The other balancing caps are switched in only after the motor is running.

Using this method, my buddy's rpc measured (the other day) 241, 242, 246 --
not bad, eh?
Mine is even tighter -- on the order of 241,243,245, on a good day -- but
with just too much effing electrical drama.

You'll get proly 100 other opinions, and altho ahm no 'spert, I grappled
with this for a long time, and bought $200 worth of caps from Graingers at
1/3-1/2 price, and did some amount of experimenting.
I don't think it gets much simpler or cheaper than my buddy's system, and
the voltage speaks for itself.

Just remember to flip in S2!!! Which, on my system, I sometimes forget to
do!!! goodgawd....

If you want to go "cap wild", you can have two banks of caps, ranging from
100 uF down to 10 or 20 caps, with a switch for each cap. One bank gets
switched across legs L1-L3, the other bank across L2-L3.

Thus, depending on what rpc idler you plan on firing up, you can choose your
starting caps, and then switch those in/out, and the other balancing caps
in, as needed. You can have 3 cheap digital VOMS attached, for on-the-spot
balancing.

This is easier described than done, and is really a wiring pita, altho it's
not rocket science either.
I used regular 49c wall switches, screwed to wood, with zip cord.
Altho my set up is not as nicely done/automated as some diy setups you'll
find, it is the most versatile and "tune-able" that I've seen anywhere on
the web.

Bear in mind that a bunch of small 3 ph motors pack as much oomph as one big
honking idler, a point much de-emphasized in rpc discussions.
This way, you just need starting caps for the 1st idler, which will start up
subsequent idlers, which can then be balanced with switchable caps, to
taste.

I breakered my wild leg(s) separately, fwiw. Too much effing drama, tho.
--
EA

>
> RWL

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:41 pm
From: "Existential Angst"

"Existential Angst" <UNfitcat@UNoptonline.net> wrote in message
news:4b6d0091$0$31261$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> <GeoLane at PTD dot NET> wrote in message
> news:5gqpm5pfjvbqqjn4k38vd6f5nkb29hrjc9@4ax.com...
>>I bought a 5914 Clausing lathe last weekend. I"m running it off of a
>> rotary phase converter, that at this point does not have balancing
>> capacitors.
>>
>> The drum switch on the lathe has a set of momentary contacts inside
>> that activate the magnetic switch when you move the handle a little
>> past the forward or reverse position. When the momentary contacts are
>> closed, the switch pulls up and the motor runs, but the mag switch
>> drops out as soon as the momentary contacts are released.
>>
>> I have tried exchanging the different leads from the RPC to the lathe
>> so that the wild leg wouldn't be part of the mag switch circuit and
>> that didn't solve the problem.
>>
>> The wiring inside the drum switch was not standard, and connecting the
>> power lines to the places it had been when previously, it didn't run.
>> Same symptom - switch would pull up ,but not latch and motor ran with
>> a pulsation / vibration. I got the wiring diagram from Clausing and
>> rewired it to factory standard. Still won't latch. Using the drum
>> switch and bypassing the mag switch works fine. The motor itself
>> seems to be OK.
>>
>>
>> What I can see from the wiring diagram supplied by Clausing and from
>> the diagram inside the mag switch box, it appears that all is wired
>> correctly. I am having difficulty following the flow of power in the
>> switch. The diagram has me confused.
>>
>> Any thoughts on trouble shooting?
>
> Contactors need an extra NO ancillary switch ("latch switch") which
> bridges across the momentary start switch, keeping the relay coil
> energized.
> A momentary stop switch is then in series this switch/coil.
>
> If there were a 4th pole on the relay, this could be used, also.
>
> This latch switch could be bad, or just not wired in. I've seen these
> switches go bad.
> Or, the mechanical connection of this switch to the relay is loose, so it
> is not "making". Sometimes the switch itself is loose, as these switches
> can be often be added on, taken off, etc.

A quick/dirty "fix" to this is to put a simple HD light switch in parallel
with the momentary on switch.
The problem is then, the Off momentary will not work; you'll have to switch
off the light switch to turn off the motor.
Which is not a big biggie, imo.

But you should be able to find the defective or mis-wired latch switch
sooner or later.
--
EA

> --
> EA
>
>>
>> RWL
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What press force is needed ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e18345ee506a1f67?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:54 pm
From: Andre Majorel

Thanks for the hint, Ned. How do you know what press force is
needed for a given job ? Specifically, punching holes about
1 cm² in 1 mm steel or 3 mm aluminium.

--
André Majorel <URL:http://www.teaser.fr/~amajorel/>
"Marque nouvelle. Dans le stock. Les navires de FL, les
Etats-Unis. Service de client exceptionnel garanti."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: hi temp zip tie
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6681ce4cb9ca953d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:06 pm
From: "Bob La Londe"

Black Zip ties seem to take the heat and sun better. Ideal has a nice heavy
one with a stainless steel internal catch that is really tough.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A test for young people
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e250300c60eaaa8e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:06 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Leon Fisk" <lfisk@no.spam.iserv.net> wrote in message
news:ocqom59goefvk2dqm3slm3b1dtsqqdjbk0@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 17:56:46 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> <big snip>
>>No, I don't. I've talked to two guys over the past two days who are about
>>my
>>age and who drove in the event. They both say it was actually in Empire,
>>but
>>one says it was called the Traverse City Hillclimb for a few years because
>>it was a Traverse City club that sponsored the event.
>
> WAG, maybe it was Pierce Stocking Scenic Drive? See:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierce_Stocking_Scenic_Drive
>
> --
> Leon Fisk
> Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
> Remove no.spam for email

I'm going to have to get back to some of the guys in the club in Traverse
City and probe a little deeper. Some of them are older than me. <g>

But I've driven on Pierce Stocking Drive, not many years ago, when we were
vacationing in Charlevoix. My son was about 5 years old and he wanted to
tumble down the dune. I wouldn't let him.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Home of the Free, the Brave and the Gay
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e498f6bd3200ff6e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:12 pm
From: grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)

WangoTango <Asgard24@mindspring.com> wrote in
news:MPG.25d673877cbb59fb98aefa@news.east.earthlink.net:

> In article <Xns9D16AA3D4E9E7Wereofftoseethewizrd@216.196.97.142>,
> grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com says...
>> WangoTango <Asgard24@mindspring.com> wrote in
>> news:MPG.25d62f682c81a0ef98aef1 @news.east.earthlink.net:
>>
>> > In article <Xns9D16641758969hopewell@216.196.97.130>, "RD (The
>> > Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> says...
>> >> tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> news:MPG.25d529c77a07b30bfb7 @news.bytemine.net:
>> >>
>> >> > In article <Xns9D1590CC9BE1Fhopewell@216.196.97.130>, "RD (The
>> >> > Sandman)" says...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com> wrote in
>> >> news:MPG.25d400b64cea72b7fb0
>> >> >> @news.bytemine.net:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > In article <b7a5d4f6-1ca1-4167-bfc1-
>> >> >> > 5c83d77af1dc@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> >> > too_many_tools@yahoo.com says...
>> >> >> >> Both homo and hetrosexuality are normal...check the science.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Last time I checked a hetrosexual couple can reporduce by having
>> >> >> > sex.. A homosexual couple cannot..
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Do you think it normal a species would evolve in such a manner
>> >> >> > as to not be able to reproduce itself ?
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Be careful there, Tank. Many species indulge in homosexual
>> >> >> behaviour. Not for procreation of course, but they do indulge.
>> >> >
>> >> > Pleasure wasn't the issue..
>> >> > Furthering the species is.
>> >> >
>> >> > I can care less what people do for fun but don't try to convince me
>> >> > it's "normal"
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Go back to what I said. I said many species indulge in homosexual
>> >> behaviour. Now, humans are just one of those species.
>> >>
>> >> Besides, what is considered "normal" depends on your viewpoint and
>> >> experiences. Since homosexuality is really a rather small sector of
>> >> the human species and is ingrained in most of those individuals, I
>> >> have no problem with it. I also have no interest in it other than
>> >> fairness.
>> >
>> > You see that's the problem with a phobia, it is an irrational fear.
>> > When you get down to it, humans mate at anytime. Even when the female
>> > is not in season, or when she is biologically unable to reproduce at
>> > all, so the idea that sex is only for reproduction is flawed from the
>> > get go. We use sex to bond with our mates a lot more than we use it
>> > to make little versions of ourselves, and we don't stop heterosexual
>> > couples, that are incapable of bearing offspring, from having sex with
>> > each other.
>> >
>>
>> It isn't a matter of stopping someone from copulating with a consenting
>> partner, it's a matter of getting the homos to shut the fuck up about
>> it.
>>
>> The love that dare not speak it's name now won't shut the fuck up.
>
> As soon as you can get the bible thumpers to shut the fuck up about
> their religious hang up about it, maybe they will.
>
>
>
>

Well I don't know anyone who thumps his bible but I have known many
Christians that subscrube to love the sinner, hate the sin. Of course that
doesn't fulfill the stereotype so it is usually ignored.

--
God, guns and guts made America great.

And Janet Napolitano nervous.

Which should tell you all you need to know about Democrats. How can one
restore America to greatness if greatness makes you uncomfortable?

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:47 pm
From: Lookout

On Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:51:19 -0800, tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com>
wrote:

>In article <0m7nm513shf5m1krh6012qdvfivp2plu54@4ax.com>,
>mrLookout@yahoo.com says...
>>
>> On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 19:00:59 -0800, tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <Xns9D1590CC9BE1Fhopewell@216.196.97.130>, "RD (The
>> >Sandman)" says...
>> >>
>> >> tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com> wrote in news:MPG.25d400b64cea72b7fb0
>> >> @news.bytemine.net:
>> >>
>> >> > In article <b7a5d4f6-1ca1-4167-bfc1-
>> >> > 5c83d77af1dc@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>, too_many_tools@yahoo.com
>> >> > says...
>> >> >> Both homo and hetrosexuality are normal...check the science.
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Last time I checked a hetrosexual couple can reporduce by having sex..
>> >> > A homosexual couple cannot..
>> >> >
>> >> > Do you think it normal a species would evolve in such a manner as to
>> >> not
>> >> > be able to reproduce itself ?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Be careful there, Tank. Many species indulge in homosexual behaviour.
>> >> Not for procreation of course, but they do indulge.
>> >
>> >Pleasure wasn't the issue..
>> >Furthering the species is.
>>
>> Nope. That's a useless inclusion in the debate. It means nothing.
>
>It only means you won't be having kids..

I have a 22 year old daughter and a granddaughter. Wrong again
dickhead.
>
>> >
>> >I can care less what people do for fun but don't try to convince me it's
>> >"normal"
>>
>> No one will convince you because you're too stupid to figure it out.
>
>I thought you were ignoring me..
>Another of your lies ?

I never said that. You're lying again.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:48 pm
From: Lookout

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 12:45:09 -0600, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
(Gray Ghost) wrote:

>WangoTango <Asgard24@mindspring.com> wrote in news:MPG.25d608ed2c37477b98aee7
>@news.east.earthlink.net:
>
>> In article <MPG.25d529c77a07b30bfb7@news.bytemine.net>,
>> paul.carrier@gmail.com says...
>>> >
>>> > Be careful there, Tank. Many species indulge in homosexual behaviour.
>>> > Not for procreation of course, but they do indulge.
>>>
>>> Pleasure wasn't the issue..
>>> Furthering the species is.
>>>
>>> I can care less what people do for fun but don't try to convince me it's
>>> "normal"
>>>
>>>
>> Oral sex and masturbation aren't "normal"?
>> They sure are prevalent, AND they don't make babies.
>> Homosexuality must have a purpose, or it would have been selected out
>> eons ago.
>>
>
>It isn't a completely self defeating mutation.

Wrong. It's not a mutation. I've already corrected you once and you
ignored it because you know you're wrong. Again

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:49 pm
From: Lookout

On Fri, 5 Feb 2010 18:48:57 -0800, tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com>
wrote:

>In article <Xns9D16783E5B805hopewell@216.196.97.130>, "RD (The
>Sandman)" says...
>>
>> Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everything@Talk-n-dog.com> wrote in
>> news:4b6c496f$0$6035$ec3e2dad@unlimited.usenetmonster.com:
>>
>> > On 2/5/2010 12:24 AM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
>> >> On Feb 3, 11:53 pm, tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> In article <b7a5d4f6-1ca1-4167-bfc1-
>> >>> 5c83d77af...@a5g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>, too_many_to...@yahoo.com
>> >>> says...
>> >>>
>> >>>> Both homo and hetrosexuality are normal...check the science.
>> >>>
>> >>> Last time I checked a hetrosexual couple can reporduce by having
>> >>> sex.. A homosexual couple cannot..
>> >>>
>> >>> Do you think it normal a species would evolve in such a manner as to
>> >>> not be able to reproduce itself ?
>> >>
>> >> When was the military's mission reproduction of the species?
>> >>
>> >> Please stay on topic.
>> >>
>> >> TMT
>> >
>> >
>> > *So the military has a mission* , and you say that mission is more
>> > important than social functions like reproduction?
>> >
>> > Doesn't that mean that anything including making Gays happy, and
>> > reproduction of heterosexuals are NOT the mission and therefore the
>> > Military is not obliged to make any special social allowances for
>> > reproduction sexual behavior or NON reproductive sexual behavior that
>> > would in any way disrupt or impede any part of the MISSION of keeping
>> > America safe.
>> >
>> > If the DNR and the EPA and other Government agencies are willing to
>> > take years to do a study an owl or a rat to secure their safety and
>> > then ban any improvement that would risk the goal of their
>> > reproduction and survival.... then we deserve at least the same
>> > consideration before you force the MILITARY to allow GAYS and GAY
>> > marriages, and Gay sex in the Barracks, and GAY parades, in the
>> > military.
>>
>> Gays have been in the military for decades. Hell I was in the military
>> in the 50s and early 60s, gays were there. We mostly didn't give a damn
>> as long as they could cover our six. If they could do that and shoot
>> straight, we didn't care if they were green, black, white, hetero or
>> homo. We did joke about the "Velvet Club" but as long as it stayed to
>> itself, no problem. Kind of an informal "Don't ask, don't tell",
>> although we always had a pretty good idea who was a member and who
>> wasn't.
>
>Pretty much how it works nowdays.
>
And how would you know?
Lying dipshit

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Failin' Palin fails to pay taxes on two houses she owns..........LOL!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/af53d8ce4d7352ca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 10:44 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Buerste wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > Where would he get $10,000?
>
> He's all flash and no picture. He's never SEEN 10k, his cheese-checks
> aren't that much in a year.

The last time I asked, they gave $150 a month in food stamps in
Florida. It would take 66 & 2/3 months (A litlle over 5.5 years) for him
to get $10,000 that way.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nagano Mini-excavator
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e36380de2b619bfa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 11:00 pm
From: jnormile@suddenlink.net (John Normile)

On Fri, 5 Feb 2010 19:50:05 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
<nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:

>John Normile wrote:
>> A friend of mine has a problem with his mini-excavator. It is a
>> "Nagano" NS-15. The problem is in the unit that rotates the cab and
>> bucket arm. After disassembly we found the pinion that mates with a
>> large ring gear is broken.
>>
>> My friend was told that the pinion was not available, and he would
>> need to buy the whole new rotator unit for something north of 5 grand.
>>
>>
>> At this point we are looking for a source for a used part. After a
>> web search I was not able to locate a used part of even a used rotator
>> unit.
>>
>> Any help in finding this part would be appreciated.
>
>Could you just make one?
>
>--
>John R. Carroll
>
That would be a little complicated.

The pinion has two ground bearing surfaces plus a spline on one end
and the gear on the other end. Being of Japanese manufacture, I
assume both the gear and spline are metric. I am looking at reparing
the existing pinion shaft, but want to explore finding a replacement
first.

A previous owner had problems with this part, and a half asses repair
he made to the gear teeth further complicates any repair. I am in
the process of measuring the (30? inch) ring gear to calculate the
size of the pinion.

John

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hey Ed, that snow coming up your way?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5da3fd42a63375e4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 11:46 pm
From: "Existential Angst"

"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4b6cc44d$0$4981$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>
> "Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:hkic3l$tn1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>I was a bit touched you worried about me when the storm was on up my way a
>>month or two
>> back. Now I'm concerned about you and yours. What does it look like at
>> your end? Sounds
>> like you are going to get dumped on in a place that really doesn't
>> understand how to deal
>> with snow.
>>
>> Hope your pantry is stocked up.
>>
>> Wes
>
> It hasn't started yet -- any minute now. But the latest report shows it
> passing mostly to the south of us. Atlantic City may wind up with two
> feet. We probably won't get more than 6 inches.
>
> My son, however, just got clobbered. (He's in Lexington, VA, in the
> Shenandoah Valley.) They really aren't used to that much snow. They have a
> foot and they're getting up to another foot.
>
> Anyway, I just cut up two chickens (and cooked some skinless breasts in
> cream and mushroom sauce); I have a three-pound piece of fresh salmon in
> the 'fridge; ten round steaks, a chuck roast, and four center-cut pork
> chops in the freezer; five pounds of potatoes and lots of other vegetables
> and other stuff.
>
> Let it snow. <g> I'm baking a pumpkin pie and I'll make some cornbread in
> a few minutes. And thanks for asking, Wes. We actually have good, and
> quick snow removal here. And my neighbor has a truck with a big plow on
> it. I've got it made.

Do you deliver??
--
EA
Yonkers, NY, 5 mi from the GWB.....

>
> --
> Ed Huntress
>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 6 2010 12:11 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Existential Angst" <UNfitcat@UNoptonline.net> wrote in message
news:4b6d1e5a$0$5019$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4b6cc44d$0$4981$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>
>> "Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
>> news:hkic3l$tn1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>I was a bit touched you worried about me when the storm was on up my way
>>>a month or two
>>> back. Now I'm concerned about you and yours. What does it look like at
>>> your end? Sounds
>>> like you are going to get dumped on in a place that really doesn't
>>> understand how to deal
>>> with snow.
>>>
>>> Hope your pantry is stocked up.
>>>
>>> Wes
>>
>> It hasn't started yet -- any minute now. But the latest report shows it
>> passing mostly to the south of us. Atlantic City may wind up with two
>> feet. We probably won't get more than 6 inches.
>>
>> My son, however, just got clobbered. (He's in Lexington, VA, in the
>> Shenandoah Valley.) They really aren't used to that much snow. They have
>> a foot and they're getting up to another foot.
>>
>> Anyway, I just cut up two chickens (and cooked some skinless breasts in
>> cream and mushroom sauce); I have a three-pound piece of fresh salmon in
>> the 'fridge; ten round steaks, a chuck roast, and four center-cut pork
>> chops in the freezer; five pounds of potatoes and lots of other
>> vegetables and other stuff.
>>
>> Let it snow. <g> I'm baking a pumpkin pie and I'll make some cornbread in
>> a few minutes. And thanks for asking, Wes. We actually have good, and
>> quick snow removal here. And my neighbor has a truck with a big plow on
>> it. I've got it made.
>
> Do you deliver??

You may laugh, but I've considered it. My wife's co-workers ask her at
lunch, "What did Ed cook last night?" <g>

My son is thinking of opening a sandwich shop. For that, I put him through
college with an econ major and math minor...at least he could handle the
cash register.

--
Ed Huntress

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Saturday, February 6, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 24 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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