twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 14 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Weird screws, no idea how to remove
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f0875be6a428e7b8?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:05 pm
From: Wes

Ignoramus14738 <ignoramus14738@NOSPAM.14738.invalid> wrote:

>Yep Jim and Dan, they just needed to be pried out, I thought that they
>were "screws" and tried to screw them out, to no avail. The speed and
>feed table was reinstalled, I am very happy. The effect is awesome,
>like makeup on a 40 year old girl.
>
>i
How much did that chart cost you?

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:04 pm
From: Ignoramus26563

On 2010-02-03, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:
> Ignoramus14738 <ignoramus14738@NOSPAM.14738.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Yep Jim and Dan, they just needed to be pried out, I thought that they
>>were "screws" and tried to screw them out, to no avail. The speed and
>>feed table was reinstalled, I am very happy. The effect is awesome,
>>like makeup on a 40 year old girl.
>>
>>i
> How much did that chart cost you?
>

Twenty something dollars. Part 130-025. The new chart is more readable
than the old one, I think that they use better lettering.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:49 pm
From: Jon Elson

Ignoramus14738 wrote:
> This is a "speed and feed" table on my Clausing 6913. It is all beat
> up and a replacement was not too expensive ($21).
>
> The problem is that it is attached with fasteners that have smooth
> heads, mushroom shaped. No slot of any kind. I cannot seem to grab
> them with pliers either.
>
These are "drive pins", often used for this purpose. Mostly, you need
to work a chisel gently under the head, then pull with whatever can get
a grip. Diagonal cutters can be useful, or prying with a pair of
flipped-over chisels, using the bevels as a fulcrum. Of course, if you
break off the head, you are in big trouble. Generally, these things
don't get very tight in the hole, but a bit of rust could change that.

Jon

==============================================================================
TOPIC: wannabe apologizes to the Original JoeCool788
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/9f102a8600e4bccf?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 2:58 pm
From: Cliff

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:40:33 -0800 (PST), Joe788 <joemama788@aol.com> wrote:

>Hahaha! Looks like maybe Jonny is having a little trouble at home.

I think that was Tom.
--
Cliff

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:03 pm
From: Cliff

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 04:03:02 -0800 (PST), Joe788 <larryrozer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>and finally gets something right!
>
>Perhaps Obama will be known for something else other than "The
>President Of Hittin That Ass":
>
>http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/02/what-the-stimul/
>
>It's about fucking time this country did something about this long
>standing problem! 8 Billion ain't shit but it's a start. No matter how
>corrupt, no matter how over budget, no matter what...
>
>It's about time, motherfuckers.

The economy is showing signs of recovering due to his actions.
Remember what the rethugs left him with. Takes time to fix ...
huge damages.
Though Faux was whining yesterday that not enough people have
been tossed out of their homes by the banks (or fast enough) or enough
credit cut off.
--
Cliff

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:50 pm
From: Joe788

On Feb 3, 2:58 pm, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 08:40:33 -0800 (PST), Joe788 <joemama...@aol.com> wrote:
> >Hahaha! Looks like maybe Jonny is having a little trouble at home.
>
> I think that was Tom.
> --
> Cliff

Click the profile. It's Jon. Well...not really Jon, but somebody using
his computer or somebody who knows his password.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Trijicon
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8210cfe1feffd9c3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:03 pm
From: "RM v2.0"

>>
>> ALL of these gods now demand their own verses too !!!
>> http://www.godfinder.org/
>> Plus all the rest.
>>
>> What part of separation of churchs & state was unclear?
>

Where is that in the Constitution? Putting verses on a scope is not passing
a law.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:47 pm
From: "Sid9"

"RM v2.0" <Blah@spamsux.com> wrote in message
news:ohnan.219326$FK3.89983@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
>>>
>>> ALL of these gods now demand their own verses too !!!
>>> http://www.godfinder.org/
>>> Plus all the rest.
>>>
>>> What part of separation of churchs & state was unclear?
>>
>
> Where is that in the Constitution? Putting verses on a scope is not
> passing a law.
>
>
>
.
.
The government owns those rifles and issued them to our soldiers.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Does anyone still use lantern toolposts
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/eb00303924b64ae5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:10 pm
From: David Billington

Ignoramus14738 wrote:
> I was just wondering if anyone who has a lathe capable of using a
> quick change toolpost like Aloris, would still have any reason to ever
> need a lantern toolpost.
>
> My feeling on this matter, without knowing too much, is that lantern
> toolposts are obsolete and quick change is the way to go, and there is
> never a reason to use these old style tools.
>
> Would there be anyone who disagrees with this.
>
> i
>
I've been machining stuff, mostly as an amateur, since about 1977-1978
when I did metal shop in junior high when I was 12- 13 and have only
used lantern tool posts in the US. Been living in the UK since 1982 and
the lantern types always seemed a PITA and have never needed one for
anything I've done in the last 28 years. Apart from indexing 4 way
toolposts that needed shimming I've almost always used Dickson type
toolposts in the UK or IIRC the Swiss type fitted to some UK Hardinges
which have a similar height adjustment. Both my current lathes have
Dickson or Bison knock off toolposts.

The main odd ball toolpost attachment I've run across was a local
machinist that had a Bridgeport M head fitted to the cross-slide of his
lathe. He had the head and had a requirement for a helical passage on a
hydraulic heat exchanger. The heat exchanger comprised a heavy wall tube
with one fluid flowing down the centre and another in the helical outer
passage, it had a shaeth. He used a lathe about 20" - 24" IIRC and
mounted the Bridgeport M head on the carriage and then did thread
cutting as normal, with a very coarse pitch, but with a milling head
doing the cutting. Impressive and worked a treat.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:31 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"David Billington" <djb@djbillington.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4b6a027c$0$2476$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
> Ignoramus14738 wrote:
>> I was just wondering if anyone who has a lathe capable of using a
>> quick change toolpost like Aloris, would still have any reason to ever
>> need a lantern toolpost.
>> My feeling on this matter, without knowing too much, is that lantern
>> toolposts are obsolete and quick change is the way to go, and there is
>> never a reason to use these old style tools.
>>
>> Would there be anyone who disagrees with this.
>>
>> i
>>
> I've been machining stuff, mostly as an amateur, since about 1977-1978
> when I did metal shop in junior high when I was 12- 13 and have only used
> lantern tool posts in the US. Been living in the UK since 1982 and the
> lantern types always seemed a PITA and have never needed one for anything
> I've done in the last 28 years. Apart from indexing 4 way toolposts that
> needed shimming I've almost always used Dickson type toolposts in the UK
> or IIRC the Swiss type fitted to some UK Hardinges which have a similar
> height adjustment. Both my current lathes have Dickson or Bison knock off
> toolposts.
>
> The main odd ball toolpost attachment I've run across was a local
> machinist that had a Bridgeport M head fitted to the cross-slide of his
> lathe. He had the head and had a requirement for a helical passage on a
> hydraulic heat exchanger. The heat exchanger comprised a heavy wall tube
> with one fluid flowing down the centre and another in the helical outer
> passage, it had a shaeth. He used a lathe about 20" - 24" IIRC and mounted
> the Bridgeport M head on the carriage and then did thread cutting as
> normal, with a very coarse pitch, but with a milling head doing the
> cutting. Impressive and worked a treat.

When I was involved with a machine shop, back in '73 - '78, we mounted a
Bridgeport J head, vertically, onto the bed of our Sheldon 1710H NC lathe.
We rigged a table on the cross-slide and used it to mill batches of parts,
24 in a setup, IIRC, under control of the Bendix 5 NC. Programming was an
interesting trick. <g> But it worked very well, and I wrote an article about
it for _NC Shopowner_ magazine.

We couldn't afford a CNC mill yet. That came a couple of years later.

--
Ed Huntress

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:51 pm
From: David Billington

Ed Huntress wrote:
> "David Billington" <djb@djbillington.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4b6a027c$0$2476$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk...
>
>> Ignoramus14738 wrote:
>>
>>> I was just wondering if anyone who has a lathe capable of using a
>>> quick change toolpost like Aloris, would still have any reason to ever
>>> need a lantern toolpost.
>>> My feeling on this matter, without knowing too much, is that lantern
>>> toolposts are obsolete and quick change is the way to go, and there is
>>> never a reason to use these old style tools.
>>>
>>> Would there be anyone who disagrees with this.
>>>
>>> i
>>>
>>>
>> I've been machining stuff, mostly as an amateur, since about 1977-1978
>> when I did metal shop in junior high when I was 12- 13 and have only used
>> lantern tool posts in the US. Been living in the UK since 1982 and the
>> lantern types always seemed a PITA and have never needed one for anything
>> I've done in the last 28 years. Apart from indexing 4 way toolposts that
>> needed shimming I've almost always used Dickson type toolposts in the UK
>> or IIRC the Swiss type fitted to some UK Hardinges which have a similar
>> height adjustment. Both my current lathes have Dickson or Bison knock off
>> toolposts.
>>
>> The main odd ball toolpost attachment I've run across was a local
>> machinist that had a Bridgeport M head fitted to the cross-slide of his
>> lathe. He had the head and had a requirement for a helical passage on a
>> hydraulic heat exchanger. The heat exchanger comprised a heavy wall tube
>> with one fluid flowing down the centre and another in the helical outer
>> passage, it had a shaeth. He used a lathe about 20" - 24" IIRC and mounted
>> the Bridgeport M head on the carriage and then did thread cutting as
>> normal, with a very coarse pitch, but with a milling head doing the
>> cutting. Impressive and worked a treat.
>>
>
> When I was involved with a machine shop, back in '73 - '78, we mounted a
> Bridgeport J head, vertically, onto the bed of our Sheldon 1710H NC lathe.
> We rigged a table on the cross-slide and used it to mill batches of parts,
> 24 in a setup, IIRC, under control of the Bendix 5 NC. Programming was an
> interesting trick. <g> But it worked very well, and I wrote an article about
> it for _NC Shopowner_ magazine.
>
> We couldn't afford a CNC mill yet. That came a couple of years later.
>
>

Shame you don't, or haven't, posted pictures, that would be interesting
to see.

This chap, it was his shop, unfortunately had a bit of a distrust of
things electrickery and had no DROs on any tools, he had a couple of
mills that would have benefited from them. When he was attending one of
my neighbours party, old friends from Stottert & Pitt, he popped round
to check out the Sony DRO reading on my BP against the dials, spot on,
but he had a distrust, a real shame.He was claimed prematurely by
cancer. He specialised in spline cutting, keyways, gears. He ran a
number of Fellows gear shapers. His only foray into CNC that I'm aware
of was the acquisition of an old CNC Beaver mill with Fanuc control and
4th axis that was used to do an order for prime number master gears. I
think he knew his stuff but in that case he was hoping for help from
his computer literate son that helped but didn't want to take on the
business.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: insulate a pipe
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/ac01bac05c1a861d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:12 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Karl Townsend" <karltownsend.NOT@embarqmail.com> wrote in message
news:4b69fc72$0$65850$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
> I'm putting a thermostat on my landlord's solar hot water heater. It has
> about one foot of exposed copper pipe at the top of the unit. I'd like to
> put the sensor there. It sits out in the south Florida sun and salt air.
>
> What insulating material would hold up to this environment?
>
> Karl
>
>

How about "Great Stuff"?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Not all 12x30 lathes are created equal
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/965ad3b681db4113?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:12 pm
From: Wayne Cook

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:06:55 -0600, Ignoramus26563
<ignoramus26563@NOSPAM.26563.invalid> wrote:

>On 2010-02-03, Ignoramus26563 <ignoramus26563@NOSPAM.26563.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2010-02-03, Pete C. <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ignoramus26563 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> This Pratt and Whitney 12x30 lathe
>>>>
>>>> http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/tmp-6362.jpg
>>>>
>>>> probably weighs as much as three times more than this 12x36 lathe
>>>>
>>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=65044
>>>>
>>>> And probably two times more than my 14x48" Clausing.
>>>>
>>>> This is based on my guess that P&W weighs two tons.
>>>>
>>>> It is coming up for a local liquidation sale.
>>>>
>>>> i
>>>
>>> I'd love to have that lathe. I have a P&W 10" tilting rotary table and I
>>> have to use an engine hoist or forklift to get it onto the Bridgeport
>>> table.
>>
>> This is lot 214 on this page
>>
>> http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/staticgallery.php?gallery=9511&page=9
>>
>> PRATT & WHITNEY 12" MODEL C/M1694 ENGINE LATH Lot: 214 : PRATT &
>> WHITNEY 12" MODEL C/M1694 ENGINE LATHE: S/N 601: W/32" Bed; Variable
>> Threads & Feeds; 4-Jaw Chuck; 3-Jaw Chuck; Tail Stock; Controls
>>
>> The auction ends in 6 days or so. It is near Chicago.
>
>I also hasten to add that I saw it in person and had the impression
>that it is very used.
>
>When I asked about the tolerance that it would hold, the owner was
>relatively evasive.
>
>I would hate someone to bid on it and not see me disclose my opinion.
>
>It may be in a better condition that my uneducated opinion suggests,
>but I cannot avoid disclosing my opinion.
>

It doesn't look nearly as used as the one I have. I can mount a
indicator on my cross slide and it will 9-11 thousands movement on the
tailstock ways when I move it up and down. However if I adjust the
tailstock right it will turn withing .001" from one end to the other.

I have to say that even as clapped out as mine is it's still the
sweetest lathe I've ever run. I'd love the have that one but getting
it here would be impossible.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Turkeys Voting for Christmas -- was The Lancet's Vaccine
Retraction -- A medical journal's role in the autism scare
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f7da32a69e030efa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:22 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 3, 3:46 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in messagenews:WL2dnYWfbalBWPTWnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ed Huntress wrote:
> >> "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
> >>news:dJKdnYSMoO6gKvTWnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
> >>> F. George McDuffee wrote:
> >>>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:20:03 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
> >>>> <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
> >>>> <snip>
> >>>>> If the government is not exercising many of its
> >>>>>> functions, responsibilities and duties now, why would any sane
> >>>>>> person let them acquire additional power and responsibility?
>
> >>>>> Because it's been extremely succesful in - - - - Canada.
>
> >>>>> You must have noticed that their own banking and financial services
> >>>>> industry avoided ( by direction ) the noose the rest of the world
> >>>>> ran it's neck into.
> >>>> <snip>
> >>>> =========
> >>>> A good argument for outsourcing. How much do you think Canada
> >>>> would charge to run the US? Nothing else seems to have
> >>>> worked....
>
> >>> I doubt that you could wrap a big enough ball of cash around that
> >>> order to get them interested.
> >>> LOL
>
> >>> I wish I'd saved the link to a piece Christia Freeland wrote for the
> >>> Financial Times recently.
> >>> You might have seen it anyway.
>
> >> It's here:
>
> >>http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/db2b340a-0a1b-11df-8b23-00144feabdc0.html
>
> >> Worth reading, IMO.
>
> > Off the subject completely but LaHood made a statement today that Toyota
> > drivers ought to stop driving their cars until they can be fixed.
> > How's that for poking your biggest competitor right in the eye!
> > I wonder if these turkey's EVER think before they speak. I'd be mad as
> > hell
> > if I were a Toyota shareholder right about now.
> > My tax payments would have just enabled one of my competitors to mess with
> > sales figures and the valuation of my equity.
>
> He was a little over the top, but, as you mention in another post, he pulled
> back from that one.
>
> It's an interesting question: Should the government keep its mouth shut
> about a safety problem in order to preserve the profitability of
> stockholders at some particular company? It's too bad that LaHood overstated
> the case, because I'd like to see that question played out in the Murdoch
> Press versus the mainstream.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Considering that we have MILLIONS of cars out there RIGHT NOW on the
roads that can become a deadly missile AT ANY TIME I think the warning
was warranted.

If any of us have family members killed by this defect, their opinons
will change.

TMT

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:26 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 3, 3:46 pm, "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
> Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> > On Feb 3, 12:50 pm, "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
> >> Ed Huntress wrote:
> >>> "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
> >>>news:dJKdnYSMoO6gKvTWnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
> >>>> F. George McDuffee wrote:
> >>>>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:20:03 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
> >>>>> <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
> >>>>> <snip>
>
> >> Off the subject completely but LaHood made a statement today that
> >> Toyota drivers ought to stop driving their cars until they can be
> >> fixed.
> >> How's that for poking your biggest competitor right in the eye!
> >> I wonder if these turkey's EVER think before they speak. I'd be mad
> >> as hell if I were a Toyota shareholder right about now.
> >> My tax payments would have just enabled one of my competitors to
> >> mess with sales figures and the valuation of my equity.
>
> >> --
> >> John R. Carroll- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Well John...it is the truth.
>
> There are a lot of "truths" that the government doesn't speak in order not
> to distort the market.
> The difference here is that GM and Chrysler are Uncle Sam Inc.
> They provide fewer jobs combined in America that Toyota.
>
> This is really the definition of self dealing and a great example, from the
> other side of the looking glass, of moral hazard.
> LaHood should be replaced ASAP. He's obviously either to stupid or
> insufficiently self aware to serve in any capacity.
>
> --
> John R. Carroll- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

And Uncle Sam Inc. is the taxpayer..you.

There is no conflict of interest.

If you believe there is, I encourage you to buy stocks of GM and
Chrysler at their low current prices.

If your theory is correct, you will die a rich man.

TMT

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:31 pm
From: rangerssuck

On Feb 3, 12:55 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "rangerssuck" <rangerss...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b7d08519-4fcc-40ab-9d7d-59a5009e19ba@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 3, 10:18 am, "Existential Angst" <UNfit...@UNoptonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The bigger point is, the world population is but a cageful of guinea pigs
> > for Big Med and Big Pharm... need I cite countless example after example
> > after example? Or the invention of disease just to sell drugs. Restless
> > Leg Syndrome, inyone?
> >No thanks, I've already got it. And I can assure you, it is no joke.
> >Now, the interesting thing is that I got RLS as a side effect from
> >another "safe" drug.
>
> >If you want to talk about drugs in search of diseases, take a look at
> >statins. They were looking for a drug to lower blood pressure. They
> >found that statins lower cholesterol. They knew that people with high
> >cholesterol levels had lower life expectancy, so they marketed the
> >hell out of this stuff. As far as I know, there has not been a single
> >scientific study that shows that lowering cholesterol levels by taking
> >statin drugs increases life expectancy. But they sell this stuff by
> >the boat load.
>
> >I'm trusting that Ed will correct me if I'm wrong about the statin
> >studies :-)
>
> I've put that stuff out of my mind. I just take the suckers and hope I don't
> keel over. So far, so good. <g>
>
> It would be a ten-minute research job on PubMed, if you're bored today. All
> you need for those efficacy tests is the abstract.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress

OK, I stand somewhat corrected, though didn't this whole thread start
with not trusting Lancet articles? And, when you start looking at the
side effects... well, it's better to just maybe put it out of your
mind and hope that you don't keel over.
---
Title:Efficacy and safety of cholesterol-lowering treatment:
prospective meta-analysis of data from 90 056 participants in 14
randomised trials of statins.
The Lancet
366.9493 (Oct 8, 2005): p1267(12). (7298 words)

Abstract:

Background Results of previous randomised trials have shown that
interventions that lower LDL cholesterol concentrations can
significantly reduce the incidence of coronary heart disease (CHD) and
other major vascular events in a wide range of individuals. But each
separate trial has limited power to assess particular outcomes or
particular categories of participant.

Methods A prospective meta-analysis of data from 90 056 individuals in
14 randomised trials of statins was done. Weighted estimates were
obtained of effects on different clinical outcomes per 1.0 mmol/L
reduction in LDL cholesterol.

Findings During a mean of 5 years, there were 8186 deaths, 14 348
individuals had major vascular events, and 5103 developed cancer. Mean
LDL cholesterol differences at 1 year ranged from 0.35 mmol/L to 1.77
mmol/L (mean 1.09) in these trials. There was a 12% proportional
reduction in all-cause mortality per mmol/L reduction in LDL
cholesterol (rate ratio [RR] 0.88, 95% CI 0.84-0.91; p<0.0001). This
reflected a 19% reduction in coronary mortality (0.81, 0.76-0.85;
p<0.0001), and non-significant reductions in non-coronary vascular
mortality (0.93, 0.83-1.03; p=0.2) and non-vascular mortality (0.95,
0.90-1.01; p=0.1). There were corresponding reductions in myocardial
infarction or coronary death (0.77, 0.74-0.80; p<0.0001), in the need
for coronary revascularisation (0.76, 0.73-0.80; p<0.0001), in fatal
or non-fatal stroke (0.83, 0.78-0.88; p<0.0001), and, combining these,
of 21% in any such major vascular event (0.79, 0.77-0.81; p<0.0001).
The proportional reduction in major vascular events differed
significantly (p<0.0001) according to the absolute reduction in LDL
cholesterol achieved, but not otherwise. These benefits were
significant within the first year, but were greater in subsequent
years. Taking all years together, the overall reduction of about one
fifth per mmol/L LDL cholesterol reduction translated into 48 (95% CI
39-57) fewer participants having major vascular events per 1000 among
those with pre-existing CHD at baseline, compared with 25 09-31) per
1000 among participants with no such history. There was no evidence
that statins increased the incidence of cancer overall (1.00,
0.95-1.06; p=0.9) or at any particular site.

Interpretation Statin therapy can safely reduce the 5-year incidence
of major coronary events, coronary revascularisation, and stroke by
about one fifth per mmol/L reduction in LDL cholesterol, largely
irrespective of the initial lipid profile or other presenting
characteristics. The absolute benefit relates chiefly to an
individual's absolute risk of such events and to the absolute
reduction in LDL cholesterol achieved. These findings reinforce the
need to consider prolonged statin treatment with substantial LDL
cholesterol reductions in all patients at high risk of any type of
major vascular event.

Source Citation
"Efficacy and safety of cholesterol-lowering treatment: prospective
meta-analysis of data from 90 056 participants in 14 randomised trials
of statins." The Lancet 366.9493 (2005): 1267+. Health Reference
Center Academic. Web. 3 Feb. 2010. <http://find.galegroup.com/gtx/
start.do?prodId=HRCA&userGroupName=bergen_remote>.

Gale Document Number:A137547733

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:30 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

Ed Huntress wrote:
> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
> news:4_WdnZshpcF2a_TWnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>>> news:y7WdnaJvBoLLbfTWnZ2dnUVZ_i2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>>>>> news:WL2dnYWfbalBWPTWnZ2dnUVZ_qmdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>>>>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:dJKdnYSMoO6gKvTWnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>>>> F. George McDuffee wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:20:03 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
>>>>>>>>> <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>> The government ordinarily exercises great restraint in these
>>>> matters Ed. Something else disturbing in the weekend news was
>>>> Obama/Holder's statement that we were going to try, convict, and
>>>> then execute criminal defendants. He's contaminated the entire US
>>>> jury pool. WTF?
>>>
>>> Free speech. <g> I don't think that jury pools are contaminated by a
>>> statement by a prosecutor, no matter how high up he is. Prosecuters
>>> argue for execution right in their faces, while they're sitting in
>>> the jury box.
>>
>> Presidents of the Unted States don't actually have that right as a
>> practical
>> matter Ed.
>
> What did Obama say?

He was answering a reporters question in, I believe, an interview and he
said we were going to try, convict and execute the guy that was going to be
moved to New York for trial. I saw the video but can't remember where. I
think either "Face the Nation" or "This Week"
He said it just like that.
He can't do that.

>I thought it was Holder. I must have missed
> something.
>
>
>> Judges grant changes of venue every day because of exactly this sort
>> of thing.
>> You know all of this so I'll assume you are jerking my chain.
>
> Well, if Obama said something prejudicial, that's different.

He did, and now that I'm thinking about it, George Will was the one that
made the point about how prejudicial it was and would end up guaranteeing a
predisposed jury pool.

>But
> Holder is just the government's chief prosecutor.
>
>
>> Maybe Tom Gardner will jump in with an inane burst of polemic for us
>> all.
>
> Why not? He probably doesn't know anything about it, so it's his kind
> of topic. <g>

LOL
The glove DO fit <G>

--
John R. Carroll

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:40 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"rangerssuck" <rangerssuck@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:821b5861-0370-4450-87e6-4eb646178a31@g29g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 3, 12:55 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "rangerssuck" <rangerss...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b7d08519-4fcc-40ab-9d7d-59a5009e19ba@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 3, 10:18 am, "Existential Angst" <UNfit...@UNoptonline.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > The bigger point is, the world population is but a cageful of guinea
> > pigs
> > for Big Med and Big Pharm... need I cite countless example after example
> > after example? Or the invention of disease just to sell drugs. Restless
> > Leg Syndrome, inyone?
> >No thanks, I've already got it. And I can assure you, it is no joke.
> >Now, the interesting thing is that I got RLS as a side effect from
> >another "safe" drug.
>
> >If you want to talk about drugs in search of diseases, take a look at
> >statins. They were looking for a drug to lower blood pressure. They
> >found that statins lower cholesterol. They knew that people with high
> >cholesterol levels had lower life expectancy, so they marketed the
> >hell out of this stuff. As far as I know, there has not been a single
> >scientific study that shows that lowering cholesterol levels by taking
> >statin drugs increases life expectancy. But they sell this stuff by
> >the boat load.
>
> >I'm trusting that Ed will correct me if I'm wrong about the statin
> >studies :-)
>
> I've put that stuff out of my mind. I just take the suckers and hope I
> don't
> keel over. So far, so good. <g>
>
> It would be a ten-minute research job on PubMed, if you're bored today.
> All
> you need for those efficacy tests is the abstract.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress

>OK, I stand somewhat corrected, though didn't this whole thread start
>with not trusting Lancet articles?

'Don't know. I didn't read the whole thread. But FWIW, *I* don't trust
Lancet articles. <g>

They're too enamored of speculative research. If BMJ, JAMA, or NEJM doesn't
pick it up within a few months, I tend to be wary of Lancet.

>And, when you start looking at the
>side effects... well, it's better to just maybe put it out of your
>mind and hope that you don't keel over.

I take five pills and pump insulin into myself every day. I have other
things to think about when it comes to medical treatment. Statins don't
bother me. I laugh at statins. d8-)

>---
>Title:Efficacy and safety of cholesterol-lowering treatment:
>prospective meta-analysis of data from 90 056 participants in 14
>randomised trials of statins.
>The Lancet
>366.9493 (Oct 8, 2005): p1267(12). (7298 words)

Abstract:

Gale Document Number:A137547733

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:48 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> On Feb 3, 3:46 pm, "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>> Too_Many_Tools wrote:
>>> On Feb 3, 12:50 pm, "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>>> "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>>>>> news:dJKdnYSMoO6gKvTWnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>> F. George McDuffee wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:20:03 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
>>>>>>> <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>
>>>> Off the subject completely but LaHood made a statement today that
>>>> Toyota drivers ought to stop driving their cars until they can be
>>>> fixed.
>>>> How's that for poking your biggest competitor right in the eye!
>>>> I wonder if these turkey's EVER think before they speak. I'd be mad
>>>> as hell if I were a Toyota shareholder right about now.
>>>> My tax payments would have just enabled one of my competitors to
>>>> mess with sales figures and the valuation of my equity.
>>
>>>> --
>>>> John R. Carroll- Hide quoted text -
>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>>> Well John...it is the truth.
>>
>> There are a lot of "truths" that the government doesn't speak in
>> order not to distort the market.
>> The difference here is that GM and Chrysler are Uncle Sam Inc.
>> They provide fewer jobs combined in America that Toyota.
>>
>> This is really the definition of self dealing and a great example,
>> from the other side of the looking glass, of moral hazard.
>> LaHood should be replaced ASAP. He's obviously either to stupid or
>> insufficiently self aware to serve in any capacity.
>>
>> --
>> John R. Carroll- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> And Uncle Sam Inc. is the taxpayer..you.
>
> There is no conflict of interest.

You don't see the conflict when a government regulatory agency that owns two
competitors indicates that it's unsafe to use the product of a third party
thet it competes with?

HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA.
That is the very definition of conflict of interest. Legislators have been
removed from office for less.

--
John R. Carroll

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HFT "Porta-Band" knock off
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/ba1c09160ea1fe50?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:30 pm
From: Pilgrim

In article
<f263ba96-4e32-4182-bac6-b81ef0987515@t17g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
Jim Wilkins <kb1dal@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Feb 1, 10:24 am, "Bob La Londe" <nos...@nospam.no> wrote:
> > ...
> > Conduit? I use an abrasive blade in a $29.95 circular saw, and a reamer in
> > my cordless. I've had nothing, but abrasive blades in that saw for 15 years
> > now. It screams a bit, but it still works. Very fast. I use my sawzall if
> > the circular is not handy and I only have one piece to cut, but that
> > circular saw is my work horse for cutting EMT.
>
> I do that too but don't like to suggest it here because I don't know
> how easily the disks break. I also use one in a table saw, where
> following a line is easier. It's too messy to do indoors and too loud
> for some neighborhoods.
>
> jsw

If you use an abrasive blade in a table saw be prepared to replace the
bearings. Ask me how I know.

Chuck P.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Oh Look...They Have Parents..Who Would Have Guessed?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/91f7e2c68f4a7e79?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:49 pm
From: Peter Principle

On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:57:16 -0600, Some KKKowardly Nazi wannabe KKKlown
called Burled Frau" <achtung@jawol.jah> fart the following FUD:

>
>
>"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:47e3e3a2-609b-400c-8edf-3b5251efaaf7@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 2, 7:37 pm, "Burled Frau" <acht...@jawol.jah> wrote:
>>> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:9ff68fc2-b81a-44ee-b6d3-b3b9c7c3ce34@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>> > Looks like our Bible thumping Baptist child trafficers have a lot of
>>> > explaining to do.
>>>
>>> Maybe the Baptists should have stayed home and let the devil worshipping
>>> libs beg 0bama to kill them quickly, after not helping them.
>>
>> More likely they made a deal with the Devil taking the lead from Pat
>> Robertson.
>>
>
>I'm sure that when the truth comes out, we will find that the parents of
>those children probably begged the Baptists to take their kids away from
>that hellhole.

And what, precisely, does your KKKowardly KKKlown stupid ass think that
might have to do with anything at all? FYI, KKKlown, "Here's $50, give your
kids, we'll take good care of them, honest" is the very epitome of ILLEGAL
CHILD TRAFFICKING.

Not to mention, your ignorant KKKowardly KKKlown stupid goober ass is every
bit as correct as usual. Turns out the idiot Baptist hypocritical imbeciles
went door to door asking parents to give up their children.

The simple fact, simpleton, is the Baptist boobs LIED their ignorant,
superstitious asses off and are still lying today. Witness, witless...

------
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/01/31/eveningnews/main6160717.shtml

Baptist Group Accused of Child Trafficking

By Bill Whitaker

Thirty-three Haitian children, from two months to 12 years in age, are safe
tonight in a Port-au-Prince orphanage, recovering from what authorities here
call a child trafficking scheme.

"They were desperate; they were thirsty," said George Willeit of the group
SOS Children's Villages. "There were also babies who were dehydrated."

Across town, 10 American Baptists sit in jail accused of trying to spirit
the children out of the country. The group was arrested at the Dominican
border Friday night. They had no documents for the children when asked at
the border.

But Laura Silsby a leader of the church group, said they had been told by
several people, including Dominican authorities, that they could simply take
the children across.

The Americans, most from two churches in Idaho, say they were trying to save
children orphaned by the earthquake. Some of the children tell a different
story.

"An elder girl, she might be eight or nine years old, told us crying, 'I am
not an orphan. I do have parents. I thought I was going to boarding school
or to summer camp,'" Willeit recalled.
------

"...desperate...thirsty...dehydrated...?" Wow, nice rescue, Baptist boobs.
You sure know how to take care of kids. Not only are they still lying their
filthy hypocritical asses off, the Baptist morons abused the very kids they
claim they were trying to protect.

Here's yet MORE Baptist hypocrite lies...

------
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/HaitiEarthquake/haitian-judge-rule-child-trafficking-charges-americans/story?id=9724145

The Americans have defended their actions, saying the paperwork was
confusing and that they did not know the rules. But Anne-Christine d'Adesky,
a journalist who was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize for her reporting in
Haiti, said she told the missionaries they could be regarded as traffickers
if they tried to cross the border without the proper documentation.

"I really have to let you know that you are very likely to be stopped at the
border, and you may even be in trouble," d'Adesky said she told the
Americans.
...
D'Adesky said she warned the missionaries the night before they entered
Haiti. But, she said, Silsby and her colleagues chose to ignore that
warning.

"They really felt like it was the Lord's intention they would be
successful," d'Adesky said.

------

OOPS! One more asinine rightarded lie blown all to hell by REALITY. Now,
KKKowardly Nazi wannabe KKKlown, your lying racist shit licker stupid goober
ass was saying...

---
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep right.
------
Why are so many not smart enough to know they're not smart enough?

http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf
© 1999 by the American Psychological Association
December 1999 Vol. 77, No. 6, 1121-1134

Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments

Justin Kruger and David Dunning
Department of Psychology
Cornell University

ABSTRACT:
...the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile
on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test
performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the
12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Clone 4" Kurt-style Mill Vise Acquired - Update
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/b05f2dba27109525?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:46 pm
From: Jon Elson

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> The clone "Kurt" vise acquired in July 2009 has a few vices. This is
> the story of one such vice.
>
I got one of the 6" knock-off vises quite a few years ago, and was quite
impressed with the quality of the vise. The swivel base was a nasty
thing, and I had some trouble getting the vise off the swivel, the
center pin was almost a press-fit. I found the whole thing very flimsy
and prone to vibration when on the swivel, and it stiffened the setup
greatly when I pulled it apart. I've never put the swivel base back on
since. Now that I have a CNC mill, there's really no need ever for the
swivel, anyway.

Jon

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Home of the Free, the Brave and the Gay
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e498f6bd3200ff6e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:45 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 3, 4:41 pm, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com> wrote:
> On 2/3/2010 5:28 PM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 3, 4:17 pm, Larry Graham <Slyandthefam...@bass.gov> wrote:
> >> Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> >>> On Feb 3, 2:01 pm, Kasim Sulton <Uto...@bass.gov> wrote:
>
> >>>> Lookout wrote:
>
> >>>>> Homosexuality really scares you. Why?
>
> >>>> Because you faggots spread disease when your penises go from man-ass to
> >>>> man-mouth, and back again, when you attempt to lick yourselves clean.
>
> >>>> Why do you fear Heterosexuality?
> >>>> You know.. the NORMAL thing! :)
>
> >>>> It's not like you and yer butt buddy "TMT" are gonna have a girl when
> >>>> you plook him in the ass.
>
> >>>> Just because YOU came out the wrong hole when born, means nothing.
>
> >>> LOL...was that the right question to ask!
>
> >> Your butt buddy "Lookout" just said that being a homo is normal!
> >> No wonder you are scared stiff to show up and take my guns away!
>
> >> Now I have more legal reasons to end your silly lives, IF you try to
> >> enter my home illegaly.
>
> >> You faggots have cooties, AND you want to commit burglary!- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Both homo and hetrosexuality are normal...check the science.
>
> > So when the SWAT team enter your home to search and seize, do you
> > think you will get off a shot before you are riddled with holes?
>
> > TMT
>
> Which sexuality isn't normal?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Sex with a conservative...you always regret it and you may end having
a bastard or bitch.

Dick Cheney and Sarah Palin are examples of the unnatural act.

TMT

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Math site
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/dfbc9ccffca533fe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:48 pm
From: Frank Warner

In article <b9in37-c013.ln1@news.infowest.com>, Steve B
<deserttraver@fishmail.net> wrote:

> "Frank Warner" <warnerf@verizonDOTnet.net> wrote in message
> news:020220101316295513%warnerf@verizonDOTnet.net...
> > In article <v6sl37-mr32.ln1@news.infowest.com>, Steve B
> > <deserttraver@fishmail.net> wrote:
> >
> >> I'm pretty good with algebra and trig. Yet, sometimes, I get stumped, or
> >> would just like to take the easy way out.
> >>
> >> I had a site on my old computer that computed distance around an arc by
> >> entering the length of the siatta and the flat measurement between the
> >> ends
> >> of the arc.
> >>
> >> Anyone remember that sits?
> >>
> >> Steve
> >
> > The Circle Calculator:
> >
> > http://www.1728.com/circsect.htm
> >
> > -Frank
> >
> > --
> > Here's some of my work:
> > http://www.franksknives.com/
>
> Hold your phone calls, folks. We do have a winner. That was it.
>
> It really doesn't make a lot of difference, but when my boss double checks
> me, I always like to be able to quote the formula or source of the answer.
>
> Thanks, Frank.

You're welcome.

The Triangle Calculator is pretty neat, too:

http://www.1728.com/trig4.htm

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Strange feed arrangement on this South Bend lathe
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5a1ee8a5e92d751c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:52 pm
From: Jon Elson

Jim Stewart wrote:
> http://sacramento.craigslist.org/tls/1581681281.html
That's a variable speed gearmotor drive, for taking long finishing cuts
on things. I might guess this lathe was used for making pool cues or
something like that.

Hardinge lathes have a similar scheme from the factory.

Jon

==============================================================================
TOPIC: If you need some good reading
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/917e0671d2729497?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 3:54 pm
From: Wes

Ignoramus26563 <ignoramus26563@NOSPAM.26563.invalid> wrote:

>Really great website.
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/dannympwillems/home

Well that killed my free time this evening. Good read though.

Thanks,

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

==============================================================================

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Wednesday, February 3, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 14 topics - digest

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