twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 19 new messages in 12 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - The Supremes To Decide On A Gun Issue
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c1a16b6a42bc4b0b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 8:58 pm
From: Eregon

Too_Many_Tools <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:a1a8af15-b113-4433-9cfe-5f91b0744acf@15g2000yqa.googlegroups.com:

> On Mar 2, 7:04�pm, Eregon <Era...@Saphira.org> wrote:
>> Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in
>> news:cfb07195-9ed8-4d5
> 6-
>> 96dc-e75801455...@q21g2000yqm.googlegroups.com:
>>
>> > What world do you live in?
>>
>> Unlike you (who lives in a fantasy world) I live in the REAL world.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Firearms were in use during the period.
>>
>> In 4000+ BCE?
>>
>> The Chinese didn't invent gunpowder until much, MUCH later, you
>> stupid fruit!
>
> I thought that according to all you Religious Right types that God
> knows EVERYTHING.

You should leave thought to those capable of such an ardurous feat - one
which you continually prove yourself to be totally incapable of even the
most basic forms.

>
> Wouldn't She have planned ahead and included an 11th Commandment "Thou
> Shalt Have Guns"?
>
> TMT
>

Why bother?

When it was time for them people were inspired to invent them as a way of
keeping the numbers of idiots under control.

After all, the same thing applies to fly swatters and automobiles. <Evil
Grin>

BTW, you fatuous fruit, there are over 600 Commandments spelled out in
the Book of Exodus rather that just 10. Failure to obey each and every
one of them could cause you to return as a Lemming. <Very Evil Grin>

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 9:36 pm
From: Shabtai

Point taken. My anger over "useful idiots" eagerly willing to give up
freedoms in this country was mis-directed at what appears to be the
initial poster, instead of some of the stupid replies.
Next time I should read more closely, instead of pulling the trigger
so quickly. Sorry. Thank you for correcting me in such a civil manner.
Shabtai

Joe wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 12:17:07 -0800, Shabtai <shabtai.evan@att.net>
> wrote:
>
>> You flaming socialist/liberals are amazing!!!!
>
> Whoa, before you decide to malign me, stop and think (if you are
> able). What about my comment made you think I am a
> "socialist/liberal"? Methinks your knee started jerking uncontrollably
> as soon as you read the subject line. That left you without the
> ability to read (and comprehend) what I actually wrote. I normally try
> to keep my comments civil, but when you start calling me a liberal,
> well, them's fightin' words, boy!
>
>> Don't give up your freedoms so quickly!! You don't get them back.
>> I wish my grandparents had guns when the SS put a gun to my
>> grandfather's head.
>>
>> Government don't care about your rights. Government care about their
>> control over YOU.
>>
>> Stalin, Lenin, Mussolini, Pol pot, Marx, Engels, Chavez, etc.
>
> Don't forget that Reagan also started talking up gun control shortly
> after he got out of office. Right-wing despots also favor gun control.
> (And were Marx & Engels really in favor of gun control? I hadn't heard
> that, though it's possible.)
>
> Joe
>
>> Wake UP!
>>
>> Shabtai
>
>
>> Joe wrote:
>>> Today, the Court is supposed to take up the issue of whether or not
>>> local governments have the right to restrict gun ownership.
>>>
>>> It will be an interesting test of the mettle of old-time
>>> Conservatives, who are fond of arguing in favor of "States' Rights"
>>> over the power of the Federal government. I predict that they will
>>> conveniently forget the states' rights issue for the duration of this
>>> decision.
>>>
>>> While I agree with them on the core issue of the inalienability of
>>> citizens' rights to posses firearms, I can't help but think that
>>> states' rights has always been a smoke screen for discriminatory
>>> and/or repressive behavior.
>>>
>>> Since the Court is tilted in favor of Conservatives, I suppose that
>>> the decision will favor gun rights, but I remain suspicious about the
>>> real agenda of any politicians; despite all their populist talk, they
>>> don't want too much power vested in the hands of the citizenry. Here's
>>> hoping that the decision will be made in favor of freedom.
>>>
>>> Joe

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 10:43 pm
From: Ignoramus5280

Guys, I was busy with my lathe, can someone tell me when we will find
out what is the supreme court's decision. Thanks

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 11:47 pm
From: "azotic"

"Ignoramus5280" <ignoramus5280@NOSPAM.5280.invalid> wrote in message
news:fa6dndirEruFmBPWnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Guys, I was busy with my lathe, can someone tell me when we will find
> out what is the supreme court's decision. Thanks

Sometime in June.

Best Regards
Tom.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Alternatives to LPS-2
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c986024af47a68d0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 9:02 pm
From: clare@snyder.on.ca

On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 20:54:15 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Aerokroil is supposed to be good. Not sure it's
>any cheaper, though.
>
>I'm told that LPS-1 "non oily" is good lube for
>locks.
ATF

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 9:42 pm
From: Don Foreman

On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 17:54:08 -0500, Bob Engelhardt
<bobengelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:

>William Wixon wrote:
>> i keep having cans of any brand (LPS, CRC, etc.) of the waxy anti-rust stuff
>> leak out all the propellant. it sucks (because it's expensive). half full
>> cans of LPS 3 (and others) with no propellant left. ...
>
>You can re-pressurize aerosol cans with propane. I made an adapter for
>recharging paint rattle cans:
>http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/RattleCanAdapter2.jpg
>
>It screws into the valve of a propane torch. I.e., in place of the
>tube. Aerosol cans have different style valves & each style requires
>its own adapter.
>
>Bob

I did that too. Mine looks amazingly similar to yours, Bob, except
that mine isn't nearly as shiney.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: building jeep frame
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/32fc57a529507b1b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 9:05 pm
From: clare@snyder.on.ca

On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 09:02:48 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
<huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:

>
>"John D." <johndslocomb@invalid.com> wrote in message
>news:1rtpo5t6pt8kqubp3m6aaau3v0l2lj2cme@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 2 Mar 2010 02:28:52 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
>> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"John D." <johndslocomb@invalid.com> wrote in message
>>>news:04cpo55k998uu2a94ebd7k1s1a5f3e2po3@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 17:52:39 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
>>>> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:qZ6dnaBKsPYVoxHWnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "RAM³" <s31924.nospam@netscape.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:Xns9D2EA3292F188s31924netscapenet@74.209.131.10...
>>>>>>> "Bill McKee" <bmckeespamnot@ix.netcom.com> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:ca6dnfBx8ZKbmxHWnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@earthlink.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why not aluminum? I have an aluminum boat trailer. Works very
>>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>> 3400# boat. The Covette has an aluminum frame as well as the
>>>>>>>> Cadillac
>>>>>>>> bodied Vette. Look at a Corvette and see what they use. Airplanes
>>>>>>>> have aluminum frames. And as long as you design well, the flex
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> not be a problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Boat trailers are rarely twisted the way that off-road vehicles
>>>>>>> routinely
>>>>>>> are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The same thing applies to Corvettes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After all, when was the last time that you went rock-crawling with
>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>> 'Vette? <Grin>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How about mud-bogging or bouncing around on deeply-rutted roads?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jeeps are expected to do all of these and more without any ill
>>>>>>> effects.
>>>>>>> (Getting dirty/muddy is, for a Jeep, a good thing!)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hell, I raced a vette, steel chassis, and it got to rock clrawing a
>>>>>> couple
>>>>>> times. :>) And boat trailers are regularly towed over uneven ground.
>>>>>
>>>>>With three points taking out the loads -- hitch and suspension supports,
>>>>>which generally are paired but close -- there is no significant
>>>>>torsional
>>>>>load on a boat trailer. It's all simple bending. You can deal with that,
>>>>>but
>>>>>if you towed your boat 100% of the time, I think you'd develop fatigue
>>>>>problems in aluminum.
>>>>>
>>>>>The aluminum Corvette chassis are semi-space-frame with some shear
>>>>>panels.
>>>>>The subframes resolve their loads in three dimensions. There isn't much
>>>>>flexing there.
>>>>>
>>>>>The same applies to aircraft, which often are near-monocoque. If they
>>>>>flex,
>>>>>you die.
>>>>
>>>> Error.. ever see the wings on a B-52? When they taxi out for take-off
>>>> both outrigger wheels are on the ground; when they come back one
>>>> outrigger will be ten feet in the air. But not only the wings, a B-52
>>>> on the ground has large wrinkles on each side of the fuselage, forward
>>>> of the wings; flying the fuselage is smooth.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> John D.
>>>> (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)
>>>
>>>I don't know what the structure of a B-52 looks like, John, but it must be
>>>far removed from a true monocoque. If a monocoque's skin wrinkled in
>>>compression, all integrity would be gone, and it would completely
>>>collapse.
>>>
>>>The wings contain spars -- the skin is stressed in tension but takes no
>>>compressive loads. That's stressed-skin but not monocoque. Most metal
>>>aircraft wings are made like that.
>>>
>>>I was referring to the fuselage, of which there are many different
>>>designs.
>>>As far back as the British Mosquito bomber of WWII, some aircraft have had
>>>near-monocoque designs, which depend on the skin (which sometimes is cored
>>>sandwiches, as on the Mosquito, and not a single sheet) to handle tensile,
>>>compression, and shear loads. As you approach a true monocoque, any
>>>stringers and ribs are there to help keep the skin's shape, rather than to
>>>directly take out the major loads.
>>
>> The only true monocoque airplane structure that I have seen is various
>> light aircraft and even then it is from the rear of the cockpit back
>> to the tail skid. The B-52 forward section is not a pure monocoque as
>> there is substantial structure to built the "two deck" upper and lower
>> areas so there are various formers and bearers but I suspect that the
>> skin does support a substantial amount of the load.
>>
>> Are you sure that the Mosquito had a "cored" structure? I thought it
>> was cold molded - just layers of veneer glued together.
>
>IIRC, it's wood veneer skins over an end-grain balsa core. It did have
>bulkheads to maintain the fuselage's shape.

The "Balsa Bomber"

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 9:07 pm
From: "RAM³"

mark <markhabbi@hotmail.com> wrote in news:759f5911-9b32-480f-aedf-
388d82ee05ea@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:

> As for the torsional
> flexing, I don't think that exists,

If you only want to use this thing on flat roads then torsional flexing
won't be an issue for you.

If, however, you (or your offspring) elect to take this thing off-road then
it'll be a BIG issue.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Heavy Metal Work
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/a0f539ace664e46f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 9:09 pm
From: Ned Simmons

On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 22:39:19 -0600, cavelamb <cavelamb@earthlink.net>
wrote:

>Bill McKee wrote:
>> "cavelamb" <cavelamb@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:vISdnc2jsdWlKRDWnZ2dnUVZ_uGqnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>> Pouring a 6000 pound lead keel for a sailboat.
>>>
>>> http://www.riparia.org/ketch/keelpouring.html
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Richard Lamb
>>> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/
>>>
>>
>> I love those brass anchor bolts. When I was in high school, my boss was
>> building a sailboat. Hurricane. And I got the job of drilling the 4000#
>> lead keel with through holes for mounting bolts. Drilling lead is a rather
>> nasty job. Kept melding and sticking to the drill bit, if you tried to rush
>> the drilling.
>>
>>
>
>Dunno if this is right or not, but for some reason I seem to recall that the
>drilling lube for lead is, excuse me, milk???

Kerosene works when cutting lead with a chainsaw or shaping it with a
power plane. I've never drilled lead for keel bolts; the normal
practice is to cast them in place.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Engine bore measurements
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/36b58dee016a3a28?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 9:11 pm
From: clare@snyder.on.ca

On Mon, 1 Mar 2010 20:16:07 -0600, "Greg O" <goo1959@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>
>"Christopher Tidy" <cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> wrote in message
>news:4B8C58DE.3020107@cantabgold.net...
>> Greg O wrote:
>>
>> Thanks to everyone for the suggestions!
>>
>>> Just looking at the picture I would say it is an oil burner. All that
>>> black crud on the top of the block confirms it. Also .003"wear seems a
>>> bit excessive, does the manufacturer give a maximum cylinder wear spec?
>>> All said, it will probably run fine as is, but consume some oil. If money
>>> was no object a total rebuild would be in order if you can still get
>>> parts.
>>
>> The manual suggests decarbonising the engine every 400 hours, so the
>> build-up of soot may be normal.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
>Carbon is one thing, oily soot is another.
>I ran a small engine shop for a few years. I can not tell you how many of
>these small engines I have rebuilt over the years!
>Do what you want, but with .003" wear in the cylinder even with new piston
>rings, it will continue to burn oil!
>Someone mentioned Kohler engines, pretty sure maximum wear for a Kohler was
>.003", right where you are at. I could run out to the shop and look it up,
>but I am too lazy!
>If you want a great running engine, it needs a rebuild. It will run good
>like it is, but I guaranty it will burn oil!
>Greg
And a J.A.P. engine didn't from new??? They ALL burned some. Just
depends on what you consider to be excessive.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT Re: Al Gore takes aim
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/4e2ba8fcc22c79a4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 9:12 pm
From: Eregon

"William Wixon" <wwixon@frontiernet.net> wrote in
news:RTljn.3574$3D3.86@newsfe19.iad:

> well, hopefully when they push through that global government thing
> they'll also make it so all workers enjoy the same protections all
> around the world, so corporations won't be able to off shore their
> pollution and unsafe working conditions, low wages, etc..

Yup!

They'll all get the same wages, protections, benefits, etc., as Stalin
provided his workers in the Gulags!

Corporations won't have to worry about such nonsense as safety or
environmental regulations either.

At the current going rate, you'll get your global government in about 10
years.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 9:27 pm
From: "Steve B"

"Doug Miller" <spambait@milmac.com> wrote in message
news:hmjvma$63s$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> In article <hmb067-5bb1.ln1@news.infowest.com>, "Steve B"
> <deserttraver@fishymail.net> wrote:
>>Well, everyone knows that in nature, when things swing one way, they
>>swing the other. Nature's balance. Global warming/global cooling. It's
>>an
>>easy reach for a lib.
>
> The thing that I find interesting is that, to the AGW True Believers, all
> of
> these are evidence of global warming:
> - warmer than usual summers
> - cooler than usual summers
> - more hurricanes in the Atlantic
> - fewer hurricanes in the Atlantic
> - warmer than usual winters
> - cooler than usual winters
> - more snowfall than usual
> - less snowfall than usual
>
> And an unusually hot summer is Proof That The Climate Is Getting Warmer,
> but
> an unusually cold winter is "just weather".

And buy your carbon credits from AlGore before they're all gone.

Steve

==============================================================================
TOPIC: When is an M45x3 not a 1.75x8 thread?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e73d8772cd3f7200?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 9:22 pm
From: Bob AZ

> Anyone have a seller of M45x3 nuts so I can check the spindle nose?
> There are NO points for Grainger or McMaster.

Louis

The 1.75" X 8 tpi are off too much for M45X3 to be a consideration.
Have you measured the Grizzly spindle thread to determine it actual
dimensions?

Bob AZ

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 10:00 pm
From: Don Foreman

On Tue, 02 Mar 2010 19:12:04 -0600, Louis Ohland <ohland@charter.net>
wrote:

> I've got a suspicion that the Grizzly G9972Z spindle thread may not
>be 1.75x8
>
> I bought a Kalamazoo Chuck Micro Set chuck and a 1.75x8 mounting
>plate. The plate screws on about 4 threads, then stops. It does this
>from either direction. My suspicions are that I'm dealing with a metric
>thread.
>
>Anyone have a seller of M45x3 nuts so I can check the spindle nose?
>There are NO points for Grainger or McMaster.

You could measure it.

Put a sharp V threading bit in the toolholder and stick a DI on the
bed with a magnet or whatever. Visually align the point of the bit
with the crest (or the edge of a crest) of a spindle thread using a
10X loupe. Zero the DI that's tracking the carriage. Advance one
thread, optically aligning the point of the bit with the next crest.
Read the DI. You should now know the pitch to within a couple of
thou. You can measure the OD with a mike and the pitch dia with three
wires and a mike.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: January
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/500a9e8efc722005?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 9:51 pm
From: JohnM

On Mar 3, 12:51 am, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
wrote:
> On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 10:59:30 +0100, Peter Muehlbauer
>
> <spamtrap...@AT.frankenexpress.de> wrote:
> >Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>
> >> http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/160556
> >> "WEATHER:
>
> >That's it.
>
> Nope
> Entire planet is warming.
> That is not weather.

His head is too deep in the sand to hear you, Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Liberals Smarter Than Conservatives
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/30a39cd522bcf038?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 9:57 pm
From: grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)

Hawke <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in
news:hmk04o$fb3$1@speranza.aioe.org:

>
>>>>>>> Idiocy know no political boundaries.
>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed; but it seems to flourishthe best on the left
>>>>
>>>>> That's YOUR opinion.
>>>>
>>>> Yep - and that is what America is all about. Left wingers want to
>>>> remove that.
>>>
>>> Want to remove what? Opposing opinions? I guess I never got that memo
>>> from headquarters. On the other hand, you can look right here in this
>>> group and see who killfiles whom. It is virtually all right wingers
>>> who can't stand to read the posts of those on the left.
>>>
>>
>> More correctly the rightwingers get tired of the name calling and
>> irational ravings. One is not required under any circumstances to endure
>> the rantings of a fool. He may rant at length if that is his choice but
>> there is no requirement that I stand and listen to him. On balance there
>> are other activities that are a much better use of my time.
>>
>
> Hey, good answer. You managed to take what was a clearly true statement
> about it being the right wingers who killfile people they disagree with
> and dodged it. Instead of admitting the truth to this statement you made
> the excuse that the wingers do this because the "liberals" name calling
> and rantings are too much to bear. That was a nice try but anyone who
> has read this news group finds out real fast the no one calls more names
> or engages in irrational rants than the right wingers do. But that is
> not the point is it? The point is the right wingers can't deal with
> hearing opposing views. So they killfile people with liberal views. That
> is what a pussy would do. But what would you expect from the
> conservatives, who pretend to be tough guys when they are really wimps?
> This is just a case of if you can't take the heat don't go in the
> kitchen. Right wingers can't take the heat so they have to use the
> killfile. Which is just what I expect from them.
>
> Hawke
>

Silly boy. You made my point for me. I will keep certain of the opposition
unkillfiled, I enjoy the debate. However the lunatic, tourettes afflicted
children? No thanks. If I want tko argue with children I'll get my 6 year old.
I suspect she is a good bit smarter than many of the profane, immature baboons
who post here.

And again no requirement that I subject myself to the abuse of fools. You may
announce your stupidity loudly and as often as you like. I do not have to
listen.

--
God, guns and guts made America great.

And Janet Napolitano nervous.

Which should tell you all you need to know about Democrats. How can one
restore America to greatness if greatness makes you uncomfortable?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: EARN MONEY ONLINE WITHOUT INVESTMENT
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1f1a61490d8aa587?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 10:17 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: kinderzulage bei eigenheimzulage , hypothek laufzeit , baufinanzierung ,
günstigste hypotheken , kredit zum hauskauf , bauspardarlehen schwäbisch hall
, kredit eigenheim ,
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/669b14107291b7f2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 11:24 pm
From: gertrud sommer

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günstige immobilien kredite eigenheimzulage rückforderung
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günstige immobilien finanzierung günstigster immobilienkredit
günstige hausfinanzierung zinssatz immobilienfinanzierung

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Glenn Beck Has Gone from Crazy Talk to Dangerous Incitement
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/03ecfef2321238cb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 2 2010 11:34 pm
From: sittingduck

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:

> Yeah, the debt, both mounting National Debt and annual deficits are
> growing. In one case due to eliminating the deceitful accounting
> practices of Bush/Cheney and in the other to mitigate the economic
> disaster of Bush/Cheney.

Tea Baggers: Where Were You When Bush Demolished U.S. Economy?

By Bill Hare
02/27/2010

If you want a stern dose of reality I recommend visiting an important
website, one to keep you in touch with the real world in a society where
media and political spin abound.

The site is USDebtClock.Org and all you need to do is look at the steadily
changing, ever flickering numbers that literally jump out at you to get in
touch with the real economic world. As I write this the grand total stands
at over $12.4 trillion.

That encompasses $40,239 owed per citizen. While this figure has been
quoted frequently when this verboten topic has been discussed the real
figure of overriding importance that has tended to be overlooked is the
amount per taxpayer.

While $40,239 is a far from insignificant figure, it is nowhere near as
calamitous as the salient number determined by taxpayer in that the
aforementioned figure includes a large population of children as well as
numerous other citizens not paying current taxes.

The amount owed per taxpayer stands currently at $113,496. This leads us
into another important category as the situation gets worse, not better.

Let us be sober realists and move into the staggering realm of U.S. total
debt. That current figure is $54.76 trillion and climbing so fast that I
dare only put the decimal and carry over to .76 when moving from trillions
to billions. In that staggering context the total debt per citizen is
currently $177,380 and $678,882 per family.

U.S. trade numbers are looking anything but good. U.S. debt held by
foreign countries is a staggering $3.82 trillion. The U.S. trade deficit
is $80.28 billion.

For those Tea Baggers eager to take slams at China, the economic reality is
that the current U.S. deficit with that nation is $36.33 billion. In terms
of the mounting debt in the foreign oil realm that stands currently at
$52.6 billion.

Bearing in mind the foregoing numbers, did all this begin when Obama took
office? One would think so since that is when the Tea Bag movement began.

While some in that movement realize that they must say something negative
about Bush, where were these same individuals when he exploded the deficit
with his irresponsible tax cuts for the rich carried out in his name?

There was no Tea Bag movement during Bush's eight years in office. Most of
these same individuals, following media role models such as Rush Limbaugh,
Bill O'Reilly, and Sean Hannity, were preoccupied rehashing Bill Clinton's
administration and perpetually asking why and how he could win two
presidential elections.

On the subject of the exploding deficits of Bush you will find that the
same crowd now fulminating and castigating non-stop and ardently
demonstrating at Tea Bag rallies were those defending him and denouncing as
unpatriotic those who dared utter a disparaging word at someone they then
extolled as the hero of 9/11.

We know from history that this is a staple Republican right stratagem.
Realizing that they cannot stand up to free debate because the facts lie
elsewhere, they condemn as unpatriotic those who dare to point out who and
what they really are.

--
We have broken from reality--a psychotic Nation. Ignorance with a pretense
of knowledge replacing wisdom. -- Ron Paul

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Wednesday, March 3, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 19 new messages in 12 topics - digest

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