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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Energy revolution is coming?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/9d9c318fdd0dd4be?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 3:29 pm
From: F. George McDuffee

On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:58:34 -0600, Ignoramus4212
<ignoramus4212@NOSPAM.4212.invalid> wrote:

>
>Apparently, a reactor is being developed, that can burn depleted
>uranium, with fuel elements able to last 60 years before
>refueling. They burn up fissionable elements much more comlpetely than
>a typical existing reactor, this dramatically reducing the amount of
>materials to be disposed.
>
>Practical use of these reactors seems to be a long shot, but if they
>succeed, it will be a revolution.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_wave_reactor
===============
As in so many advances, widespread adoption of this would result
in a very steep depreciation of many existing assets and a
considerable monetary and political influence loss to some very
powerful people and organizations. You can see some of the
arguments being ginned up against at
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=rethinking-nuclear-fuel-recycling

Such advances as fast neutron reactors have been proposed and in
some cases pilot tested years ago. Among many other sites for
information see
http://www.sciamdigital.com/index.cfm?fa=Products.ViewIssuePreview&ARTICLEID_CHAR=5D1D3DF7-2B35-221B-65ECD6262B4898E7
http://www.nationalcenter.org/NuclearFastReactorsSA1205.pdf
http://www.nationalcenter.org/NuclearFastReactorsST120805.pdf
http://news.thomasnet.com/IMT/archives/2009/06/nuclear-power-prospects-and-problems-power-infrastructure-energy-alternative.html

In any event, successful implementation of on site nuclear fuel
recycling and/or high efficiency energy conversion is likely to
result in the proliferation of new nuclear plants that would
eliminate much of the rationale for "carbon credit
cap-and-trade," which is to be the next big tax and finance scam,
now that "derivatives" are becoming widely suspect.

Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 3:37 pm
From: RLM

On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 13:58:34 -0600, Ignoramus4212 wrote:

>
> Apparently, a reactor is being developed, that can burn depleted
> uranium, with fuel elements able to last 60 years before
> refueling. They burn up fissionable elements much more comlpetely than
> a typical existing reactor, this dramatically reducing the amount of
> materials to be disposed.
>
> Practical use of these reactors seems to be a long shot, but if they
> succeed, it will be a revolution.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_wave_reactor

Google: Japan fuel cell

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 3:43 pm
From: "newshound"

"Ignoramus4212" <ignoramus4212@NOSPAM.4212.invalid> wrote in message
news:Zt-dnaI9o-_3cwbWnZ2dnUVZ_sWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> Apparently, a reactor is being developed, that can burn depleted
> uranium, with fuel elements able to last 60 years before
> refueling. They burn up fissionable elements much more comlpetely than
> a typical existing reactor, this dramatically reducing the amount of
> materials to be disposed.
>
> Practical use of these reactors seems to be a long shot, but if they
> succeed, it will be a revolution.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_wave_reactor

Havn't really thought hard about this, but essentially it's the same
argument that was made for the fast breeder back in the 70's. Unfortunately,
as designs of these were refined, it turned out that their breeding ratios
were not so good. There *are* attractions in sodium cooled reactors
(compact, stable, unpressurised), but also serious engineering down-sides
(for example fatigue in the structures caused by surface waves on the sodium
pools). And the chemistry/engineering of the secondary side is difficult.

If you are worried about the costs of enrichment, you can go back to
building natural uranium reactors (but they are big and expensive).

But enrichment isn't that expensive these days, and new uranium is currently
readily available. The "Westinghouse" and "European" advanced PWRs are built
on a *lot* of operational experience, and the designs have converged to a
fair extent on "intrinsically safe" characteristics.

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 4:01 pm
From: Wes

Ignoramus4212 <ignoramus4212@NOSPAM.4212.invalid> wrote:

>>>Practical use of these reactors seems to be a long shot, but if they
>>>succeed, it will be a revolution.
>>>
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_wave_reactor
>>
>> And the Warthog may need a new type of bullet.
>>
>
>The optimistic view here, is that if we find a source of very cheap
>energy, and convert to mostly electric cars, then we will need a much
>smaller amounts of oil, for chemical industry, nylon stockings, and
>such.

If a EV could do 200 miles on a charge, I'd be interested, 400 miles, I'm an acolyte. We
would need to set up battery exchanges and standardized packs for longer distance driving.
Hybrids have some a lot of short commings. You carry two different power plants to get
places. That isn't energy efficient. It is just a crutch for low capacity batteries.

>
>Without the need for nearly as much oil, we will not need the Middle
>East much, would not care about its "issues" and may need a lot less
>depleted uranium bullets.
>

Anyone that thinks GW1 and GW2 was not about oil is not thinking. The only reason we give
a chit about the ME other than Israel is oil.

>Also if the demand for 2/3 of currently produced oil and natural gas
>is removed, then the prices may follow the demand.

Well we can hope. I'm fairly sure the producers keep an eye on demand and throttle
supply.

Wes

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 5:42 pm
From: cavelamb

Ignoramus4212 wrote:
> On 2010-03-13, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:
>> Ignoramus4212 <ignoramus4212@NOSPAM.4212.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> Apparently, a reactor is being developed, that can burn depleted
>>> uranium, with fuel elements able to last 60 years before
>>> refueling. They burn up fissionable elements much more comlpetely than
>>> a typical existing reactor, this dramatically reducing the amount of
>>> materials to be disposed.
>>>
>>> Practical use of these reactors seems to be a long shot, but if they
>>> succeed, it will be a revolution.
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traveling_wave_reactor
>> And the Warthog may need a new type of bullet.
>>
>
> The optimistic view here, is that if we find a source of very cheap
> energy, and convert to mostly electric cars, then we will need a much
> smaller amounts of oil, for chemical industry, nylon stockings, and
> such.
>
> Without the need for nearly as much oil, we will not need the Middle
> East much, would not care about its "issues" and may need a lot less
> depleted uranium bullets.
>
> Also if the demand for 2/3 of currently produced oil and natural gas
> is removed, then the prices may follow the demand.
>
> I
>

Lowering the demand that much would drive the price through the roof.

--

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gold
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/dd0c885b2701ee87?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 3:32 pm
From: "Paul K. Dickman"

"Steve B" <deserttraver@fishymail.net> wrote in message
news:q77t67-3sv.ln1@news.infowest.com...
>
> "Harold & Susan Vordos" <vordos@tds.net> wrote in message
> news:KzImn.151$Sp1.65@newsreading01.news.tds.net...
>>
>> "Steve B" <deserttraver@fishymail.net> wrote in message
>> news:03ir67-qnj1.ln1@news.infowest.com...
>>>
>>> "chaniarts" <charlie.spitzer@nospam.stratus.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hne0bu$k4i$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> RBnDFW wrote:
>>>>> Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gold should never be melted in any kind of metallic vessel. Molten
>>>>>> metals are strong solvents of other metals, so the gold will be
>>>>>> contaminated, often rendering it useless as it loses its ductility,
>>>>>> depending on the alloying element.
>>>>>
>>>>> so, if I wanted to melt a few old rings down into a cube or ingot,
>>>>> what vessel or mold material can one use?
>>>>
>>>> ceramics
>>>
>>> Here in the old west, I have found assayer's shacks, or what's left of
>>> them with the remains of thousands of broken crucibles laying scattered
>>> all about.
>>>
>>> Steve
>> Those crucibles were used for assaying, and were discarded after one
>> assay.
>> They are also very fragile, almost always cracked in use, although they
>> held
>> together. They are a poor choice for use at the bench.
>>
>> Harold
>
> Those were used 100+ years ago, not today. Then they were probably state
> of the art. And forty miles from the middle of nowhere.
>
> Steve
They still are state of the art. They are only intended to be used once.

Back in the gold scrapping flurry of the eighties, Helped a friend from
Cripple Creek round up equipment for crushing those used bone ash cupels.

It turned out that after they pop off the button for the assay, there can
still be a trace of gold on the cupel.

He crushed a bunch up and sent it off for assay. He had a better yield per
ton then some hard rock mining operations.

Paul K. Dickman

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 5:08 pm
From: "Steve B"

"Paul K. Dickman" <pkdickman@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:hnh7bd0314k@news2.newsguy.com...
>
> "Steve B" <deserttraver@fishymail.net> wrote in message
> news:q77t67-3sv.ln1@news.infowest.com...
>>
>> "Harold & Susan Vordos" <vordos@tds.net> wrote in message
>> news:KzImn.151$Sp1.65@newsreading01.news.tds.net...
>>>
>>> "Steve B" <deserttraver@fishymail.net> wrote in message
>>> news:03ir67-qnj1.ln1@news.infowest.com...
>>>>
>>>> "chaniarts" <charlie.spitzer@nospam.stratus.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:hne0bu$k4i$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> RBnDFW wrote:
>>>>>> Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gold should never be melted in any kind of metallic vessel. Molten
>>>>>>> metals are strong solvents of other metals, so the gold will be
>>>>>>> contaminated, often rendering it useless as it loses its ductility,
>>>>>>> depending on the alloying element.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so, if I wanted to melt a few old rings down into a cube or ingot,
>>>>>> what vessel or mold material can one use?
>>>>>
>>>>> ceramics
>>>>
>>>> Here in the old west, I have found assayer's shacks, or what's left of
>>>> them with the remains of thousands of broken crucibles laying scattered
>>>> all about.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>> Those crucibles were used for assaying, and were discarded after one
>>> assay.
>>> They are also very fragile, almost always cracked in use, although they
>>> held
>>> together. They are a poor choice for use at the bench.
>>>
>>> Harold
>>
>> Those were used 100+ years ago, not today. Then they were probably state
>> of the art. And forty miles from the middle of nowhere.
>>
>> Steve
> They still are state of the art. They are only intended to be used once.
>
> Back in the gold scrapping flurry of the eighties, Helped a friend from
> Cripple Creek round up equipment for crushing those used bone ash cupels.
>
> It turned out that after they pop off the button for the assay, there can
> still be a trace of gold on the cupel.
>
> He crushed a bunch up and sent it off for assay. He had a better yield per
> ton then some hard rock mining operations.
>
> Paul K. Dickman

When I was a kid, we used to go down to the Techatticup Mine in Nelson,
Nevada. A huge operation, with cyanide vats, and the talings still there.
In one area, there were countless broken crucibles. We looked and looked
for whole ones, but never found one.

The mine was used in the Kurt Russell movie Road to Memphis, or something
like that. After that, a guy bought it, found an entrance that was sealed,
and opened it to find everything like the day they stopped mining, including
matches for the candles. He cleaned it up, and now has tours.

They also cleaned up every scrap of every crucible there. I suspect that
they did get some reasonable amount of gold out of there. Piles that were
six feet thick were gone, and you could not find a piece of a crucible as
big as your pinky fingernail.

Steve

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What sort of surface plate is this?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c2e43cb2e443c86d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 3:38 pm
From: "stu"

"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4b9bf249$0$31281$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message news:...
>>
>> <pentagrid@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:chpnp5tmli6f21tp685hts7mguookv6r64@4ax.com...
>>> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:55:03 +1100, "stu" <no where just yet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>><pentagrid@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:cu3np5la85p48d0vchp58tos9do4fun5me@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:55:17 +1100, "stu" <no where just yet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I've just posted a picture in http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox
>>>>>>called
>>>>>>"stusplate"(is it the done thing to put a direct link here?)
>>>>>>As you can see from the reflection of newpaper, the surface has a very
>>>>>>fine
>>>>>>finish like no surface plate I have ever seen. It comes in a felt
>>>>>>lined
>>>>>>lockable box. Does anyone have any idea what this sort of plate is?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Could be an optical flat. Your jpg doesn't show the size.
>>>>> Inspection grade optical flats are typically 5 or 6" dia and
>>>>> polished flat to within a fraction of the wavelength of green
>>>>> light.
>>>>>
>>>>> Jim
>>>>So that would be pretty flat then lol
>>>>I have two, one is 170mm(7inches) x 35mm(1.5inches) thick. The other is
>>>>220mm(9inches) x 35mm(1.5inches)they are labeled "precison plate"
>>>>I thought about optical flats but I thought they were made from
>>>>glass?(although I'm not even sure I've ever seen an optical flat)
>>>>
>>> Most optical flats are glass or quartz. I have a 6"dia x 1/2"
>>> glass flat. Although your flats are opaque, bearing in mind the
>>> polish, the thickness and the careful packaging, I still think
>>> they are likely to be flat to optical precision standard
>>>
>>> Jim.
>>
>> Stu has a couple of toolmaker's flats. They're made with a surface that
>> allows a gage block to be wrung to the surface, so that clamps aren't
>> needed. It's frequently used in gage labs for qualifying and certifying
>> instruments. Standard sizes are 2" and 4", so Stu's are something pretty
>> special. I've seen them that big, though, in Mitutoyo's qualification
>> lab.
>>
>> If you keep that surface scratch-free, there's no better way to set up a
>> stack of gage blocks to extreme, certifiable, transferable accuracy.
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>
> BTW, I should mention that their original purpose, which is now about 30
> or 40 years out of date, was to qualify custom gages that were used in
> production manufacturing -- go/no-go snap gages and so on.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress
>
Thanks Ed (and others)
There are some light scratches in the small one, just behind the person it
the photo. I didn't do a very good job cleaning the block as I wasn't sure
what to use. I'm yet to clean the large one, I'll try to get onto it this
evening, but what to use? I'm guessing "kero and a rag" aren't the done
thing.

I believe you are right about the "production manufacturing ", they have a
name plate from a wire company where I am guessing they were used, but they
have no other name on them.

I'm try and get some more info on here tonight.
thanks again

Stu

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 3:54 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"stu" <no where just yet> wrote in message
news:4b9c2225$0$1783$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4b9bf249$0$31281$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>
>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message news:...
>>>
>>> <pentagrid@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>> news:chpnp5tmli6f21tp685hts7mguookv6r64@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:55:03 +1100, "stu" <no where just yet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><pentagrid@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>news:cu3np5la85p48d0vchp58tos9do4fun5me@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:55:17 +1100, "stu" <no where just yet>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I've just posted a picture in http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox
>>>>>>>called
>>>>>>>"stusplate"(is it the done thing to put a direct link here?)
>>>>>>>As you can see from the reflection of newpaper, the surface has a
>>>>>>>very
>>>>>>>fine
>>>>>>>finish like no surface plate I have ever seen. It comes in a felt
>>>>>>>lined
>>>>>>>lockable box. Does anyone have any idea what this sort of plate is?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could be an optical flat. Your jpg doesn't show the size.
>>>>>> Inspection grade optical flats are typically 5 or 6" dia and
>>>>>> polished flat to within a fraction of the wavelength of green
>>>>>> light.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>So that would be pretty flat then lol
>>>>>I have two, one is 170mm(7inches) x 35mm(1.5inches) thick. The other is
>>>>>220mm(9inches) x 35mm(1.5inches)they are labeled "precison plate"
>>>>>I thought about optical flats but I thought they were made from
>>>>>glass?(although I'm not even sure I've ever seen an optical flat)
>>>>>
>>>> Most optical flats are glass or quartz. I have a 6"dia x 1/2"
>>>> glass flat. Although your flats are opaque, bearing in mind the
>>>> polish, the thickness and the careful packaging, I still think
>>>> they are likely to be flat to optical precision standard
>>>>
>>>> Jim.
>>>
>>> Stu has a couple of toolmaker's flats. They're made with a surface that
>>> allows a gage block to be wrung to the surface, so that clamps aren't
>>> needed. It's frequently used in gage labs for qualifying and certifying
>>> instruments. Standard sizes are 2" and 4", so Stu's are something pretty
>>> special. I've seen them that big, though, in Mitutoyo's qualification
>>> lab.
>>>
>>> If you keep that surface scratch-free, there's no better way to set up a
>>> stack of gage blocks to extreme, certifiable, transferable accuracy.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ed Huntress
>>
>> BTW, I should mention that their original purpose, which is now about 30
>> or 40 years out of date, was to qualify custom gages that were used in
>> production manufacturing -- go/no-go snap gages and so on.
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>>
> Thanks Ed (and others)
> There are some light scratches in the small one, just behind the person it
> the photo. I didn't do a very good job cleaning the block as I wasn't sure
> what to use. I'm yet to clean the large one, I'll try to get onto it this
> evening, but what to use? I'm guessing "kero and a rag" aren't the done
> thing.

Kero and a rag isn't bad at all. Don't use anything the least bit abrasive
or corrosive to steel. No Windex. Then lightly oil it with a rag and put it
away. Wipe the oil off before using. If you're going to try wringing gage
blocks against them, clean with a solvent on the working surface, really
well, first. Paint thinner should do it.

>
> I believe you are right about the "production manufacturing ", they have a
> name plate from a wire company where I am guessing they were used, but
> they have no other name on them.
>
> I'm try and get some more info on here tonight.
> thanks again
>
> Stu

You're welcome, Stu. They're interesting tools and they don't take up much
room. With scratches, you probably won't get much for them, so you'd might
as well keep them.

Do you have a set of gage blocks?

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Train wreck . . .
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/dae93e33bd54a025?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 3:39 pm
From: Jon Elson

Robert Swinney wrote:
> www.tornado1.wmv
>
> Amazing video! Only a RR person would appreciate this; but the final scene was of the broken-off
> rear part of the train which continued down the track to collide with the front half. Normally,
> when a train breaks in two like that one, automatic air brakes are applied to both portions.
> Theoretically, both halves should come to full "emergency stop" to prevent a reconnect disaster like
> that one.
Air brakes don't work that well when the wheels
are off the track! If you look down below the
tank car, the sparks seem to indicate at least
several cars of the rear portion have derailed.

Jon

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 3:46 pm
From: Jon Elson

Robert Swinney wrote:
> A form of regen braking is available on some "diesel" locos. It consists of a huge bank of
> resistors absorbing generated current from the DC traction motors. The resistors are housed in a
> pod somewhere on the loco, usu. behind the cab near the top.
Actually it is most of the roof of main line
locos. The Diesel radiators are the front 1/3 or
so, the back 2/3ds are the braking resistor array.
When you hear a loco pass and there is a loud
humming whir, that is mostly the fans on the
braking resistor grid. Our house is a mile from
the track, and those fans are the first thing I
hear coming, and I can hear them for quite some
time as the train passes.

Jon

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 3:48 pm
From: Jon Elson

Ignoramus4212 wrote:
> On 2010-03-13, Robert Swinney <judybob@tx.rr.com> wrote:
>> A form of regen braking is available on some "diesel" locos. It consists of a huge bank of
>> resistors absorbing generated current from the DC traction motors. The resistors are housed in a
>> pod somewhere on the loco, usu. behind the cab near the top.
>
> What you are describing is not regenerative braking.
Depends on how you define "regenerative". If it
means returning kinetic energy to form that is
then used by other vehicles, then no. If it means
turning kinetic energy into electrical energy,
then it is. Some locos now have flywheels or
ultracapacitor banks, but I suspect that is more
on passenger rail systems than freight.

Jon

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Palin's family sought health care in Canada
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/4b916090ba0a6227?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 3:42 pm
From: "Ala"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:vbgmp5973t9vigor97st2m2rlautfj4pnl@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 07:31:15 -0600, First Post
> <last_post@LyingLeftistsare.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 04:53:46 -0800 (PST), "Kickin' Ass and Takin'
>>Names" <old_redneck@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mar 10, 7:24 am, "Fred B. Brown" <fredbbr...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> "Cliff" <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:e11fp550aa9igavotbbb0br8rj238g1he7@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/sarah-pali...
>>>> > "Sarah Palin's family sought health care in Canada"
>>>> > [
>>>> > Sarah Palin has raised questions over her staunch criticism of state
>>>> > health care
>>>> > after the former Alaska governor admitted her own family used to
>>>> > "zoom"
>>>> > over the
>>>> > border to get treated in Canada's hospitals.
>>>>
>>>> In the 1960's when Palin was about five ( 5 ) years old and there were
>>>> no doctors in the area where she lived, dumbass.
>>>> You Palin haters are so pathetic.
>>>
>>>
>>>So, Fred, how do you explain the fact that Sarah has enrolled her
>>>grandson in the socialized medicine, taxpayer-paid-for Indian Health
>>>Service??? This was not 40 years ago -- this is TODAY when there are
>>>lots of doctors and hospitals and clinics and when Sarah has millions
>>>of $$$$$ from her book deal, yet, she sends her grandson to the "free"
>>>clinic that was intended for Native Alaskans.
>>>
>>>Must suck to be as fucking stupid as you are.
>>>
>>>http://rawstory.com/2010/02/child-support-subpoena-reveals-palins-grandson-on-socialized-medicine/
>>
>>In regards to her grandsons situation, what has she done that is
>>illegal?
>>And comparing the Indian health service with that load of garbage you
>>and Obama want for everyone is ludicrous. And get a clue loser. Todd
>>Palin IS a Native Alaskan. You do know what an Inuit is don't you
>>smartass?
>
> So the whole family has been on the dole & socialized medical
> care since day one.

nice, bright guys who are always beyond congenial .

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Has anyone worked with bridgeport Interact CNC mills?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f35cac1b64a235ed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 3:49 pm
From: "Karl Townsend"

...
>>Then I go to the individual drive manual and see nothing about brush servo
>>connection. Brushlees servos have three hot wires, do you just use two of
>>the three on a brush type? There must be more, brushless is totally
>>different electical output.
>
> I haven't used a brush motor in a very long time, and don't remember
> setting up a brushless amp to run a brush motor. I've just noticed the
> brush/brushless feature showing up in the specs. I couldn't find the
> setup in the manual, either, but I did find this on AMC's FAQ page...
> http://www.a-m-c.com/content/support/FAQ.html#setup07
>
> Based on that, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that older AMC and
> Copley brushless amps will also drive brush motors. Perhaps, because
> of declining deamand, it's simply no longer economical for them to
> produce amps specifically for brush motors.
>
> --
> Ned Simmons

Thanks for the excellent advice. Now I can buy up brushless drives and be
able to use them both ways. Just an FYI, I keep enough spare parts on hand
to make about three machines like Iggy's into a Galil/Camsoft machine. Right
now, I'm looking for drives to do my Matsuura bedmill. its a twin spindle
machine that weighs about 16,000 lbs. - just the thing for light home hobby
use.

Karl

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rush to flee US
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/589453ba81b739ca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 3:53 pm
From: rangerssuck

On Mar 13, 10:58 am, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
> Why shouldn't he, what they are trying to do with the health care bill is
> unconstitutional. Can't get enough votes, skip votes and abuse budget
> reconciliation for the health care bill, still can't get enough votes so
> skip voting altogether with the Slaughter solution. Could it be any more
> obvious, the government funded abortion health care bill is being forced
> upon us with the Slaughter house solution! These people don't have a clue
> when it's right in front of their face. As one said, the only thing
> bi-partisan about Obama's health care plan is the opposition to it. Looks
> like Rush is right again!
>
> RogerN

Roger -

Please enlighten us as to where in the bill abortion is funded. Please
be specific. The right hollers about this continuously, but I have yet
to hear anyone actually point out the words in the bill that fund
abortions.

As for the use of reconcilliation to pass legislation, check your
history. It's perfectly legal and constitutional. THe Republicans have
used it dozens of times.

Get a grip.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 4:14 pm
From: Fred Hall

On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:43:34 -0800, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:29:11 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>"Pong Lrick" <ping@pong.net> got double secret probation for writing:
>
>>
>>
>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>news:ibdmp59b8t3qd96jbq0b3hnqmjdkldp1qa@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/09/limbaugh-ill-leave-us-if_n_491536.html
>>> "Limbaugh: I'll Leave US If Health Care Reform Passes (VIDEO)"
>>> [
>>> If Democrats didn't have all the incentive they needed to pass health care
>>> reform already, then conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh may have
>>> provided the
>>> final push they needed by vowing to flee the country if the reform bill is
>>> passed.
>>>
>>> Responding to a caller who asked him where he would go for health care if
>>> Congress enacts reform, Limbaugh replied,
>>>
>>> [
>>> I don't know. I'll just tell you this, if this passes and it's five years
>>> from
>>> now and all that stuff gets implemented -- I am leaving the country. I'll
>>> go to
>>> Costa Rica.
>>> ]
>>>
>>> ***UPDATE*** In addition to private care, Costa Rica has universal health
>>> care.
>>> This may upset Limbaugh's plan.
>>> ]
>>>
>>> He had all that Viagra last time, right?
>>> And they have lax prostitution & drug laws ....
>>> Why is he still here ??
>>> --
>>> Cliff
>>
>>trim
>
>trim what?

You didn't used to have a beard

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 4:48 pm
From: Aratzio

On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:14:11 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Fred Hall <fkhall@gmail.com> got double secret probation for writing:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:43:34 -0800, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:29:11 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>>"Pong Lrick" <ping@pong.net> got double secret probation for writing:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>>news:ibdmp59b8t3qd96jbq0b3hnqmjdkldp1qa@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/09/limbaugh-ill-leave-us-if_n_491536.html
>>>> "Limbaugh: I'll Leave US If Health Care Reform Passes (VIDEO)"
>>>> [
>>>> If Democrats didn't have all the incentive they needed to pass health care
>>>> reform already, then conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh may have
>>>> provided the
>>>> final push they needed by vowing to flee the country if the reform bill is
>>>> passed.
>>>>
>>>> Responding to a caller who asked him where he would go for health care if
>>>> Congress enacts reform, Limbaugh replied,
>>>>
>>>> [
>>>> I don't know. I'll just tell you this, if this passes and it's five years
>>>> from
>>>> now and all that stuff gets implemented -- I am leaving the country. I'll
>>>> go to
>>>> Costa Rica.
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>> ***UPDATE*** In addition to private care, Costa Rica has universal health
>>>> care.
>>>> This may upset Limbaugh's plan.
>>>> ]
>>>>
>>>> He had all that Viagra last time, right?
>>>> And they have lax prostitution & drug laws ....
>>>> Why is he still here ??
>>>> --
>>>> Cliff
>>>
>>>trim
>>
>>trim what?
>
>You didn't used to have a beard

No. I did shave off my mustache a few months ago.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 5:09 pm
From: Fred Hall

On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:48:46 -0800, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:14:11 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>Fred Hall <fkhall@gmail.com> got double secret probation for writing:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:43:34 -0800, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 10:29:11 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>"Pong Lrick" <ping@pong.net> got double secret probation for writing:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>>>news:ibdmp59b8t3qd96jbq0b3hnqmjdkldp1qa@4ax.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/09/limbaugh-ill-leave-us-if_n_491536.html
>>>>> "Limbaugh: I'll Leave US If Health Care Reform Passes (VIDEO)"
>>>>> [
>>>>> If Democrats didn't have all the incentive they needed to pass health care
>>>>> reform already, then conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh may have
>>>>> provided the
>>>>> final push they needed by vowing to flee the country if the reform bill is
>>>>> passed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Responding to a caller who asked him where he would go for health care if
>>>>> Congress enacts reform, Limbaugh replied,
>>>>>
>>>>> [
>>>>> I don't know. I'll just tell you this, if this passes and it's five years
>>>>> from
>>>>> now and all that stuff gets implemented -- I am leaving the country. I'll
>>>>> go to
>>>>> Costa Rica.
>>>>> ]
>>>>>
>>>>> ***UPDATE*** In addition to private care, Costa Rica has universal health
>>>>> care.
>>>>> This may upset Limbaugh's plan.
>>>>> ]
>>>>>
>>>>> He had all that Viagra last time, right?
>>>>> And they have lax prostitution & drug laws ....
>>>>> Why is he still here ??
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cliff
>>>>
>>>>trim
>>>
>>>trim what?
>>
>>You didn't used to have a beard
>
>No. I did shave off my mustache a few months ago.

Maybe that's the trim Cliff was referring to

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Just suppose .........
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/906226787bd903e5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 3:59 pm
From: Jon Elson

Steve B wrote:
> I wanted to start buying gold jewelry for cash. How would I melt it down?
> What would be my most cost efficient way of selling these pieces? Leave
> them whole with the karat markings on them and sort the pieces? To who?
> Melt them down and sell the block, and if melting, what would a guy use in a
> rough shop atmosphere with just an OA torch? Or would a kiln be cost
> effective.
I've used Oxy-MAPP (really propylene, MAPP is
trademarked) to melt gold, and it works quite
well. I've been salvaging electronic scrap.
There is quite a business in this, but I have a
bunch of old electronic gear I've accumulated over
the years, some of it with a fairly thick gold
plating. The chemicals needed are pretty
dangerous though, for separating the gold from all
the base metals. However, the scrap is
essentially free, and the plating is 24 kt, if you
can get it off without dissolving much of the base
metal.

Jon

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 4:12 pm
From: Jon Elson

Robert Swinney wrote:
> Good questions, Steve. Let's hope Harold Vardos chimes in here. Harold used to be in the precious
> metals reclaimation business.
Harold and some other great guys have a web site
for this at
http://www.finishing.com

At least I'm pretty sure this is the right one,
they have redone it a couple times since they
started it. I got a lot of help when I was first
trying some of this stuff out. I reclaimed a good
ounce of pretty pure gold off some circuit board
edge fingers.

A couple of the guys there figured out an
incredibly simple process for stripping gold
plating off component pins. They use reverse
electroplating in sulfuric drain cleaner. I
haven't tried this process yet, but it looks like
a winner.

Jon

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 4:28 pm
From: Jon Elson

Jon Elson wrote:
> Robert Swinney wrote:
>> Good questions, Steve. Let's hope Harold Vardos chimes in here.
>> Harold used to be in the precious metals reclaimation business.
> Harold and some other great guys have a web site for this at
> http://www.finishing.com
>
OOps, wrong site, this is the one :
http://goldrefiningforum.com/phpBB3/index.php

You have to join to see the forum, but it is
really WORTH it!!!

Jon

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Liberals Smarter Than Conservatives
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/30a39cd522bcf038?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 4:22 pm
From: "RogerN"

"Aratzio" <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:ho2op5t2prn5hklsqhs7l5kuod7o7pbpf7@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 14:38:43 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
> "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> got double secret probation for writing:
>
>>
>>"Aratzio" <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>>news:jaknp558b5buml9grbqnfl9s0p4m6vidbb@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 05:15:14 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> got double secret probation for writing:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Aratzio" <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:havlp5proo8to89qa8r0tfetj1b366k1dt@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:35:08 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>> "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> got double secret probation for writing:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>"Aratzio" <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:1lmlp551odvfack5bk1rith2kaehljlidu@4ax.com...
>>>>>>> On Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:12:00 -0600, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>>>> "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> got double secret probation for
>>>>>>> writing:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Aratzio" <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:e30jp51jng09jpnave7riohnkrnnl4oq05@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 21:57:59 -0600, in the land of
>>>>>>>>> alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>>>>>> "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> got double secret probation for
>>>>>>>>> writing:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"Aratzio" <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:5gngp5diaab9jcop63q0lavo4bic3a3rc3@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:19:24 -0600, in the land of
>>>>>>>>>>> alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>>>>>>>> "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> got double secret probation for
>>>>>>>>>>> writing:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>"Aratzio" <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>>news:r3cgp519asa781k6ja7u0eu1mie0p3v51s@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 10 Mar 2010 11:20:26 +0000, in the land of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hang Dog <righteous@wobble.nospam.net> got double secret
>>>>>>>>>>>>> probation
>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>>> writing:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Aratzio wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 22:28:54 -0600, in the land of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> got double secret probation for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> writing:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where do you draw the line? Specifically, what gives you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> right
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> draw any line with regard to medical procedures?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Wow, Roger, you sure don't have many answers to the real
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>With Roger you normally has to wait a few days before he
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>responds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>detailed questions. It has something to do with having to go
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>back
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>his
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>pastor before he can reply. It can be very frustrating talking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Roger
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>as he's simply a conduit for the bigotry of others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>A few years ago he was praying that his online opponents got
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>testicular
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>cancer.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Accordingly, he has officially been spanked by what he called
>>>>>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> *fencepost*.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does not say much for his or his pastor's mental acuity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>According to your "spanking", you agree that when the woman
>>>>>>>>>>>>consented
>>>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>>>have sex, she consented to be a parent. So if you are
>>>>>>>>>>>>"pro-choice"
>>>>>>>>>>>>then
>>>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>>>contradicted yourself, a fencepost isn't that stupid.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Where have I stated that I am pro choice. Feel free to examine
>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>> statements and point out my declaration. Just because you are
>>>>>>>>>>> too
>>>>>>>>>>> stupid to follow a logical conversation and see the massive
>>>>>>>>>>> gaping
>>>>>>>>>>> holes in your parochial and prejudiced world view is far from
>>>>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>>>>> my
>>>>>>>>>>> fault. Trying to ascribe statements to me that are a creation of
>>>>>>>>>>> your
>>>>>>>>>>> own imagination is the bearing of false witness. Given your
>>>>>>>>>>> obvious
>>>>>>>>>>> lack of grounding in the Christian ethos I doubt very much that
>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>> can even understand your hypocrisy and the ramifications that
>>>>>>>>>>> will
>>>>>>>>>>> have for you.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I wrote "IF" you are pro-choice. Hello.. anybody home..?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If it has never been stated then that was an ad hominem. So you
>>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>>> either illiterate or admitting that you lost the argument by
>>>>>>>>> creating
>>>>>>>>> an ad hominem in your own defense.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Anyway you appeared to agree that women should have the right to
>>>>>>>>>>abortion
>>>>>>>>>>and then wrote that the consent to have sex was the consent to
>>>>>>>>>>become
>>>>>>>>>>a
>>>>>>>>>>parent.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Again, feel free to state where I have made any argument that
>>>>>>>>> defines
>>>>>>>>> my beliefs with regard to anything other than the law.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The law is pro-death (they prefer to call it pro-choice), so are you
>>>>>>>>admitting that is your position?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I am stating I follow the law. You have a problem with abiding
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> the law?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Men's choice ends at the choice to have sex, libtards want women's
>>>>>>>>>>rights to continue far beyond that, and some even want taxpayers
>>>>>>>>>>to
>>>>>>>>>>pay
>>>>>>>>>>for
>>>>>>>>>>their careless sex.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Poor little soc.man. You can't have your way so it is all a
>>>>>>>>> conspiracy
>>>>>>>>> against the oppressed males.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>What do you have against men and women having equal rightsA?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They have exactly the same rights. If a man gets pregnant he has the
>>>>>>> right as defined by current law to determine the biological process
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> hs own body.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Men don't get pregnant, sorry to not make that clear, I'm not used to
>>>>>>communicating with those stupider than a fence post!
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you saying they would not have that right? That the right is in
>>>>> law and exclusivity of women?
>>>
>>> And he hides from another question who's answer would refute his
>>> prejudice.
>>
>>Men don't get pregnant so it doesn't apply. My argument is that after
>>they
>>have both consented to have sex, and you claim that is a consent to be a
>>parent, that the woman should have the choice to choose to be a mother but
>>the man has no choice to choose to be the father.
>
> No, your claim is the right is exclusive to women. So is the right to
> control the biological process of the body exclusive to women or not?

The choice to be free from the responsibility is the mothers. The father
can't just pay an abortion fee and be free if he doesn't want to be a
father. You said they consented to be a parent when they had sex, why
should abortion be allowed then?

> Or are you trying to limit the *right* to simply one function of the
> female body? If so, your ignorance of the law is even greater than I
> thought.

It appears that everything is greater than you thought, even the
intelligence of a fence post. At least a fence post doesn't get everything
mixed up like you do.

>>>>>>> Unless you think the law says something different?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So, to be fair, what is wrong with a man choosing to
>>>>>>>>>>not be responsible for the child that the mother decided to have?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Because he is abrogating his responsibily. The responsibility he
>>>>>>>>> assumed when he chose to have sex.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>RogerN
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Except for rape, didn't she have the same responsibility? Or are you
>>>>>>>>claiming that the "weaker" sex also has a weaker brain?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Are you illiterate too? You are the one that makes baseless claims
>>>>>>> wholly unsupported by any facts.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, illiterate it is then.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Either way, why
>>>>>>>>does the woman need greater rights than a man? She has to pay for
>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>9
>>>>>>>>months, he has to pay for it 18 years and most likely more, even if
>>>>>>>>it
>>>>>>>>can
>>>>>>>>be absolutely proven that it isn't his child.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> AH, so you believe thet the woman has no financial or moral
>>>>>>> responsibility after the child is born and ONLY the man carries the
>>>>>>> burden for the rest of the time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Have you checked the law? The woman is not required to spend one cent
>>>>>>of
>>>>>>child support to support the children. The woman can spend every
>>>>>>penny
>>>>>>she
>>>>>>gets on drugs, the government doesn't hold her accountable in any way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Really, I thought you had raised the stupid-o-meter to its highest
>>>>> scale and pegged it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then you broke the damn meter with that statement.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know the law. You on the otherhand are just another
>>>>> "me first" limited thinker that imagines the only thing required for
>>>>> raising a child is money.
>>>>
>>>>Evidently you don't, got to alt.child-support and ask, I'm sure they
>>>>will
>>>>inform you. Or feel free to show any law that says anything about a
>>>>woman
>>>>having to use CS money to support the children.
>>>
>>> So your claim is ONLY money raises a child and the efforts of a single
>>> parent should be ignored as unworthy?
>>
>>That's not my claim, stupid. Normally I don't engage in calling names
>>like
>>stupid but you do and I'm sure you wouldn't call names if you didn't want
>>to
>>be called names.
>
> "She has to pay for it 9 months, he has to pay for it 18 years and
> most likely more"
>
> That was your ignorant statement. Your claim is that women do not pay
> for child care after birth and that the only form of child support is
> money.

Nope, a fence post wouldn't change what I said. The woman can choose to put
the child up for adoption if she doesn't want to raise it. In that case she
only has to pay for it for 9 months. I know the womans or custodial parent
also has to both pay and raise the child.

> That is some serious ignorance there. Unsurprising that a judge would
> not give you custody.

There sure is, I'm suprised you never heard of adoption. Since a fence post
doesn't have ears it's never heard of adoption either, so in that you're
just as informed as the fence post.

>>
>>> Simple yes or no would suffice but I am sure you will lower the bar
>>> for stupid some more.
>>
>>I have to try to lower it to your level so maybe you can understand.
>
> "I know you are but what am I?"
> Way to go PeeWee.
>
>>
>>> Brittany Spears pays child support. There goes your whole argument.
>>
>>Hey Stupid, I didn't claim that only men pay child support!
>
> Yes, you did:
> "She has to pay for it 9 months, he has to pay for it 18 years and
> most likely more"

She could have given it up for adoption and not have to pay child support.
She CAN pay child support but doesn't HAVE to if she gives it up for
adoption.

> Unless you can parse that differently, your claim is the woman's
> financial responsibility ends at birth.

If she is the custodial parent she should also be supporting the children
but there is no law that takes a portion of her income and dictates that it
goes to the children. The woman can choose for her financial responsibility
to end at birth through adoption.

>>So, that's not my argument, I have never seen such stupidity, simply
>>amazing. But since
>>you are so up on this, out of all the child support received, what percent
>>are women? What percent of men are the custodial parent?
>
> Here is what you wrote with regard to child support:
> "Child support is determined by a percent of the mans income and
> whatever they can take the man for."

Here in Illinois child support is to be at least a percent of the income,
depending on how many kids they charge him for. How many women pay child
support for children where the man lied to them and told them it was really
theirs?

> I note nothing about parents, just some misogynistic whine about how
> men are so pitiful and oppressed.

I know in my own case I paid child support and was taken to court almost
every year for years by the Illinois Department of Public Aid because they
couldn't calculate child support correctly. Their attorney had their
mistake figured out every time and I didn't even have to see the judge. But
it was a pain having to keep going to court over the same thing, the support
was deducted from my pay check so I couldn't get behind.

>>> Unless you would like to claim she did not lose custody or maybe she
>>> is not the mother or the parent?
>>>
>>> I do enjoy watching you pathetic cowards bitch about how you do not
>>> want to accept the responsibility for fathering children. You want to
>>> be classed as sperm donors.
>>
>>Wrong again, I love my kids and want them supported. The complaint I have
>>is that I pay their support but their mom spends the money on herself, the
>>kids have to work and do without. My daughters should be driving their
>>moms
>>car because the money was taken from them.
>
> So your lawyer sucks and you are too stupid to figure that out for
> yourself. So you whine and bitch like the typical sperm donor about
> money and how it is so unfair to the poor oppressed men. You
> generalize that your single anecdotal situation is proof that the
> whole system is wrong.

Wow, how do you manage to get it wrong every time? Lawyers have nothing to
do with what the woman does with her support money. If a lawyer tried to
tell her how the money was supposed to be used she could probably sue the
lawyer.

>>> I'll bet you think that you are a "family values" supporter.
>>
>>If I think anything I've done more than you seem capable of.
>
> Truly sad how you supposed christians when pushed into the light of
> day turn out to be just mewling unchristian frauds whose whole world
> view is centered about themselves. Maybe is you were to read the New
> Testament instead of the Old Testament you could be a better
> Christian.

I know, I worked hard and my income and CS has more than tripled since she
left me. How terrible of me that I work to provide for my kids and don't
want them to have to go to school all day and work till midnight. If you
keep this up the liberals will pay you to quit claiming you're liberal, you
smear mud on their name.

>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Seriously, stupid like yours should be painful.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How is the cost of raising the child determined? All you see is a
>>>>>>> financial burden, you simple minded boob. You are obviously not a
>>>>>>> parent or you would know the time and effort that is required to
>>>>>>> raise
>>>>>>> a child.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Child support is determined by a percent of the mans income and
>>>>>>whatever
>>>>>>they can take the man for. The law doesn't require the woman to spend
>>>>>>one
>>>>>>cent of it on the children.
>>>>>
>>>>> So it is all about money for you. Fuck the children, who cares about
>>>>> them. It is the money that is the only determinant factor in your
>>>>> world. Raisong the child, teaching the child, caring for the child are
>>>>> all insignificant in comparison to what you see as a fianancial
>>>>> burden.
>>>>>
>>>>> How very unchristian of you.
>>>>
>>>>Hey stupid, don't make your stupid claims and then act like I made them
>>>>or
>>>>I'll have to buy you a fence post to tutor you. My complaint is about
>>>>CS
>>>>money NOT being used on the kids, try to reduce your stupidity by not
>>>>attributing your thoughts to me. My kids had to work after school so
>>>>their
>>>>mom could drive a sport car paid for with CS money. I didn't like it
>>>>because I was paying plenty that the kids should not have had to work.
>>>
>>> You are the cowardly little man whining that the money is the
>>> important factor and that a woman's responsibility ends at birth. You
>>> said so. That you are incapable of supporting your ignorant and
>>> hilarious belief system, again, is not my fault. The fact that there
>>> is no law that states a *man* is responsible for child support will
>>> not stop you from your misogynistic quest to prove you are a poor
>>> defenseless victim of the matriarchal overlords.
>>
>
> <Where the defendant admits his whole whine is only about himself>
>>At least a fence post is smart enough to show zero intelligence instead of
>>negative intelligence. My complaint in my own experience is that my kids
>>had to get after school jobs because their mom wasted the CS money.
>
> So what? I had to get before school and after school jobs when I was a
> kid. I had to pay for my own car, my own insurance, my own gasoline. I
> had to buy anything beyond the basic needs of food, some clothes and a
> roof. You have a problem with that or are you of the mind that
> children deserve to be given whatever they want and no have to earn
> anything?

I don't think they should have to work after high school because their mom
buys herself a sport car. She's paying for her luxury with either the CS
money or money she should be using to help support the kids herself. How
would you like to have 32% of your take home pay removed for child support,
then you bust your but to make more income, you more than triple your income
and the support you pay her, she buys herself a sport car and asks you for
money everytime the kids need something?

> So are your children going without any of the basic needs like food &
> shelter? If they are then your lawyer REALLY sucks to the point you
> have a case against your lawyer and you are a failure as a father.

They get food and shelter plus medical insurance I provide.

>>>>> Do you actually consider yourself a Christian? I am serious. What kind
>>>>> of Christian would want to make his own children suffer for his own
>>>>> greed.
>>>>
>>>>A fence post doesn't make up stuff and think it came from someone else,
>>>>you
>>>>really are trying to prove you're not smarter than a fence post. I
>>>>would
>>>>love for my CS money to go straight to the kids, or at least be required
>>>>to
>>>>be spent on the kids. I hate that my kids had to go to school and then
>>>>work
>>>>after school till late at night, but that's the way the liberals made
>>>>the
>>>>laws.
>>>
>>> So what kind of Christian would complain about supporting his
>>> children? Do you or do you not have the responsibility for your
>>> children?
>>
>>And you try to claim I can't read? I complain that my kids had to work
>>after school to support themselves when their mom was getting plenty of
>>money for them. I told my oldest daughter how much I pay in child
>>support,
>>she had no idea that I paid that much by what her mom told her. She said
>>both her and her friends figured out years ago that their mom wasn't using
>>the support money for them.
>
> It has been interesting to watch as you have morphed your pathetic
> mewling from ranting about abortion, to ranting about the *rights* of
> women, to ranting about the family judicial system to ranting that "it
> is all about me and my money".
>
> Your wife got both balls in the divorce, didn't she. Admit it, you
> don't really care about any of that except what you see as "your
> money".

I even keep out of her business when she buys herself nice things until she
starts wanting more money because she spent the support on herself.

>>> I'll give you another hint, it is real obvious given your writings why
>>> you are divorced and do not have physical custody.
>>
>>Duh! Fence Post 1000, you 1
>
> So you admit you are an unfit parent and your wife is better.

I didn't have the money to fight for to get them, was told the woman usually
wins unless there is a good reason she shouldn't.

>>> As for liberals views in the world, you will have to speak to the most
>>> prominent liberal in history, Christ, to discover why he espoused such
>>> and created a society that you so despise.
>>
>>Liberal views weren't always anti-Christ, today they are. This is an
>>ex-Christian country ruined by liberals. Jesus predicted things would get
>>worse before his return but you try to spin it and claim he created it.
>>Learn from the fencepost, it's better to do nothing than to demonstrate
>>such
>>stupidity.
>
> So you do not understand the definition of liberal do you. He was an
> advoacte for change. He was an advocate for charity. He was an
> advocate for the betterment of your fellow man. He was an advocate for
> the poor and the disenfranchised. He was a community organizer. He
> fought against the conservative establishment. He fought for the
> rights of people. He fought for the acceptance of all people
> regardless of whether you agreed with them or not. He fought for
> peace.
>
> Yep, that looks like a mighty liberal agenda.
>
> Now, which of you rightwing faux-religious meat puppets believe in ALL
> of that?

Yes, but Jesus wanted change for the better, not change for the worse.

>>> Maybe if you accepted the teachings of Christ you could learn to be a
>>> better husband and father.
>>
>>I followed the teachings of Christ by forgiving her after she had an
>>affair.
>>Later after having kids she divorced me.
>
> So you are here ranting about her and you have forgiven her. You do
> realize mouthing the words is not the same as the act of forgiveness.

I forgave her for the adultry and didn't divorce her.

>>>>> Or are you stating the woman should have an abortion if you demand it
>>>>> so you do not have to bear a financial burden?
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh, btw, women have to pay child support if the father has custody.
>>>>>
>>>>> You really have no idea about what your are blithering.
>>>>
>>>>The way it ends up is that the ex buys herself a sport car and my kids
>>>>have
>>>>to get jobs to work after school. Seems all your idiot assumptions are
>>>>wrong. At least a fence post doesn't assume things and attribute the
>>>>crazy
>>>>ideas as someone else's actions.
>>>
>>> Yes, your one anecdotal experience is proof that all are exactly
>>> alike. That only your single anecdotal whines prove that every case
>>> the *man* is the poor unsuspecting victim of the evil wimmins.
>>>
>>> So, how does the fact that women also pay child support affect your
>>> claim that the law states that *man* has to pay the child support? Is
>>> it proof of your claim?
>>
>>In the majority of the cases it is the man that pays child support to the
>>woman. I know that child support is paid by the NCP to the CP, but in the
>>majority of cases the woman is the CP.
>
> So you were wrong when you wrote:
> "Child support is determined by a percent of the mans income and
> whatever they can take the man for. "

I was referring to the cases where the men are the non-custodial parent,
that is most cases.

> Women alos pay child support.
>
> Now explain why it is that in the majority of cases the father pays.

Because the woman us usualy the custodial parent.

>>
>>>>Every time you post, you make a fence post look smarter and smarter.
>>>>Even
>>>>on the electrical, I claimed a static charge voltage was unknown, you
>>>>claimed I was wrong and later said the voltage was unknown. Study the
>>>>fence
>>>>post, it doesn't do stupid things like that.
>>>
>>> No, you claimed it went "to who knows where". I said that was wrong. I
>>> even gave you one of the simple methods in which an electrostatic
>>> potential can dissipate. That you failed to understand the physics is
>>> of no fault of mine.
>>
>>The "where" I was referring to was a voltage, as in where on the voltage
>>scale, not a physical location.
>
> So your complaint with respect to electrical potentials is that an
> undefined variable is not defined?

I had no complaint about it, I merely mentioned it and Cliff replied "NOPE".

>>People with common sense would not need it
>>explained but evidently that excludes you. I said "voltage" floating off,
>>not electrons or charge floating off.
>
> BWAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAHAAAA*OH SHIT*HAAAAAAAHAAAA*SNORT*HAAAAA
> Really, that was common sense? Seriously?

Sense that voltage is referring to voltage? Is that difficult to
understand.

> So, what does your common sense tell you is going on? What do you
> think the *voltage* is doing while you are not defining it?
>
> Feel free to describe the "floating off" effect and how that works
> within the framework of the objective universe as opposed to the
> quantum universe.
>
>>I just can't seem to push the
>>stupidity bar low enough for you to understand.
>
> Wow, your creative juices were flowing there. Highly original
> thinking. Do explain how stealing lines from someone you consider less
> than a fence post is descriptive of your intelligence:
>
>>
>>> You really should learn to read before getting angry, flustered and
>>> making a fool of yourself. You should take a deep breath and try some
>>> nice Buddhist meditiation. That Buddah guy knows his shit.
>>
>>Maybe you are Buddah's shit?
>>It's not a reading problem, it is that you take everything I write and try
>>to spin it into something else. Are you doing this on purpose or are you
>>really stupider than a fence post?
>>
>>> So go ahead, go back and read what I wrote and point out where I ever
>>> said an electrostatic charge is known.
>>
>>I said it was "who know where", you claimed I was wrong, but you say it's
>>unknown. The subject was voltage, not charge, so what is the voltage of a
>>helicopter coming in for landing after flying for 37 minutes on a 40%
>>relative humidity day? My answer is "who knows" your answer is "unknown"
>>unless you change it, Cliff's answer is 0V.
>>
>>RogerN
>>
>

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 4:51 pm
From: Hang Dog

RogerN wrote:
> "Hang Dog" <righteous@wobble.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:7vuhvqFt7oU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>> Last time I was looking for something it happened to be a church. Drove
>> around and around trying to find the place. Problem was they'd plonked it
>> down a single track road with trees all around it masking it from view.
>> Why do they do that? Eventually I found someone that knew where it was
>> hidden.
>>
>> Then there are all the times you turn up at one and its locked, and all
>> they keyholders are AWOL, or there is no contact data. You'd have thought
>> they might have had signs and portents telling them to stay in as some one
>> was coming.
>
> Why was you going to a church when it was closed and locked up?
>

Well one doesn't know in advance whether they'll be closed and locked
up. Some are open, some are locked, some have nearby keyholders, others
do not. Sometimes the keyholder is in, other times they are out.

There was one 5 weeks ago that had a big sign saying open every day, but
it wasn't. The one a few miles away was also locked, it should have been
open as they had a grant on the basis that they open every weekend.
Another one was all locked up due to repairs. Only managed two out of 5.
Then on the way back driving past the first one I noticed a bunch of
people hanging about all dressed up. Very frustrating as I'll have to
make another trip out that way.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 5:02 pm
From: Fred Hall

On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:22:17 -0600, "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net>
wrote:

>I know, I worked hard and my income and CS has more than tripled since she
>left me. How terrible of me that I work to provide for my kids and don't
>want them to have to go to school all day and work till midnight. If you
>keep this up the liberals will pay you to quit claiming you're liberal, you
>smear mud on their name.

Fencepost 100 Roger 0

The whole point of your tirade is that you failed to accept
responsibility for helping to create another human being.
Conservatives (and I consider myself one) preach personal
responsiblity, yet you are refusing to accept responsibility for your
child, instead whining about the courts ordering you to support your
child. Back in Ye Olden Days it was common for folks to work from can
until can't to support a family. This has nothing to do with liberal
or conservative, it has more to do with decency, doing the right thing
if you will.

Moral of story for Roger: Keep your pants zipped and you won't have
to pay child support.

HTH

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Source for 4340 bar stock?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/670786a6a14e58b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 13 2010 4:36 pm
From: Mark Rand

On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 12:05:24 -0600, Louis Ohland <ohland@charter.net> wrote:

> Looking for 4340, annealed, in 1" x 2" size. Length is 4" minimum.
>
>Speedy, Metal Express, and others do rounds, and I'm not ready to carve
>a rectangle from a round.

I just go to my local steel stockholder (no help to you, in the UK)

http://www.niagaralasalle.co.uk/distribution/

AISI4340/EN24 is a standard product and should be available at least, in
hot-rolled rectangle form. Only issue is that a steelyard will want you to buy
a complete length. This is how you build up stock for future projects :-)

Mark Rand
RTFM

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Saturday, March 13, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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