twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 10 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT-SSDI going broke
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/bd949eb2c9d85129?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 3:45 pm
From: Rich Grise

Steve B wrote:
>
> When you make getting free money from the government easier than going out
> and getting a job, it brings out the worst in people.
>
But yet, there are still people who believe that socialism can
possibly "work."

Thanks,
Rich

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:08 pm
From: John

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> On Mar 27, 12:41 pm, "PrecisionmachinisT"
> <precisionmachin...@notmail.com> wrote:
>> "Steve B"<pittmanpir...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:VcJjp.243$UC4.222@news.usenetserver.com...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> "azotic"<H.B...@network.com> wrote in message
>>> news:imn71p$5rr$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>> SSDI, created to assist people who have stopped working because of
>>>> physical or mental-health problems, has become one of the largest federal
>>>> entitlement plans, paying $124 billion of benefits in 2010. The number of
>>>> beneficiaries jumped to 10.2 million in 2010 from 6.6 million in 2000.
>>
>>>> The program's spending has grown so rapidly that it is projected to run
>>>> out of money in four to seven years unless Congress intervenes.
>>
>>>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870451740457622270192611...
>>
>>>> One might think some people are willing to commit
>>
>>>> fraud when thier unemployment insurance runs out.
>>
>>>> Best Regards
>>
>>>> Tom.
>>
>>> When you make getting free money from the government easier than going out
>>> and getting a job, it brings out the worst in people.
>>
>> Yeah, people just love being disabled...
>>
>> They are quitting their jobs, losing their houses& cars, and having their
>> families fractured so that they can enjoy the privilege of shopping with
>> food stamps and having to beg for gas money only to have their driver
>> license revolved for driving to the the welfare office without valid auto
>> insurance.......having to sleep in their mothers garage, to idly spend their
>> free time shivering at the freeway on-amp begging for a hand-out in freezing
>> weather...
>>
>> Yup--it's great fun enduring constant pain from rotten teeth and having to
>> collect aluminum cans and walk 4 miles to the metal recyclers in order to
>> buy a used tire for a 30 year old beat up oil burning gas guzzler so that
>> you can get to the the home depot and beg for under-the-table work as a
>> casual laborer ...or to not be able to read because your eyeglasses broke
>> and you can't afford a new pair of glasses.
>>
>> Damn straight--It's the new American Dream....and people are lining up for
>> it, taking numbers..- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> It's the Republican Wet Dream for America.
>
> Notice the Republicans haven't done a damn thing to encourage job
> creation...but they have plenty of time to waste on Religious Right
> BS.
>
> TMT

In the last six months i have had about eight phone calls of people
"looking " for a job. In reality they just wanted a name for their
unemployment office so they could continue getting benefits. What
pisses me off most is that one guy said that he paid in to UC and he
deserved the money back. I as an employer pay in except for maybe a
.0006 percent contribution by the employee, which amounts to about 25
bucks a year. Did you ever watch who parks in the handicapped parking
places. Most of them are a bunch of fakers just like a lot of the
people on the government dole, and the ones that really need the help
don't get it.

John

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:44 pm
From: "Snag"

John wrote:
> In the last six months i have had about eight phone calls of people
> "looking " for a job. In reality they just wanted a name for their
> unemployment office so they could continue getting benefits. What
> pisses me off most is that one guy said that he paid in to UC and he
> deserved the money back. I as an employer pay in except for maybe a
> .0006 percent contribution by the employee, which amounts to about 25
> bucks a year. Did you ever watch who parks in the handicapped
> parking places. Most of them are a bunch of fakers just like a lot
> of the people on the government dole, and the ones that really need
> the help don't get it.
>
> John

Since it looked like as much or more work to get an extension at the end
of my 6 months of U/C checks , I started a handyman business . Not doing so
well , as everyone else is as broke as I am , but I'm tryin' . And my wife
absolutely LOVES comin' home from work to the aroma of dinner on the stove
(or grill ...) .
Now that the weather has warmed up some , I'm getting more calls , but
it's still pretty slim pickin's . Looks like I'll have plenty of time for he
garden again this year...
--
Snag
Lettuce is
up already !

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 5:12 pm
From: John

Snag wrote:
> John wrote:
>> In the last six months i have had about eight phone calls of people
>> "looking " for a job. In reality they just wanted a name for their
>> unemployment office so they could continue getting benefits. What
>> pisses me off most is that one guy said that he paid in to UC and he
>> deserved the money back. I as an employer pay in except for maybe a
>> .0006 percent contribution by the employee, which amounts to about 25
>> bucks a year. Did you ever watch who parks in the handicapped
>> parking places. Most of them are a bunch of fakers just like a lot
>> of the people on the government dole, and the ones that really need
>> the help don't get it.
>>
>> John
>
> Since it looked like as much or more work to get an extension at the end
> of my 6 months of U/C checks , I started a handyman business . Not doing so
> well , as everyone else is as broke as I am , but I'm tryin' . And my wife
> absolutely LOVES comin' home from work to the aroma of dinner on the stove
> (or grill ...) .
> Now that the weather has warmed up some , I'm getting more calls , but
> it's still pretty slim pickin's . Looks like I'll have plenty of time for he
> garden again this year...

Almost everyone I have ever hired has been a walk in or by reference
from someone I know. I have a bunch of projects sitting, waiting to get
done but I don't have the time to micro supervise someone that can't
think on his own two feet. I hired one person about two months ago
who was out of work. Very good person with good work ethics. He is that
good that I gave him a big raise beginning next month. I don't want to
loose a good worker.

If I were looking for handyman work I would try the smaller commercial
businesses.

John

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A cool sight today
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2574896e0f96a419?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 3:48 pm
From: John

Steve B wrote:
> "Edward A. Falk"<falk@rahul.net> wrote in message
> news:immk27$oqq$2@blue.rahul.net...
>> In article<vf6so6lthk1r6vh56hut6kjo3g73fndu3u@4ax.com>,
>> Ned Simmons<news@nedsim.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> C-130 with JATO takeoff:
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLFB7q8tyd8
>>
>> Most impressive, but why wait until the aircraft is ready to rotate anyway
>> before lighting them off? Why not light them at the start of the runway,
>> if the goal is to get airborne as quickly as possible.
>>
>> --
>> -Ed Falk, falk@despams.r.us.com
>> http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com
>
> I would guess they were more efficient at 60 or 70 mph than from a dead
> stop. They seem to ignite when the wheels leave the ground, so there is no
> rolling resistance. And maybe they would blow holes in the asphalt.
>
> Steve
>
> Heart surgery pending?
> www.cabgbypasssurgery.com
>
>

ff you light them off at the beginning of the takeoff roll they won't
last long enough for when you really need them.

John

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Continental solenoid starter stopped working
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c6437740c4fa3382?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 3:58 pm
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 27, 6:15 pm, Ignoramus446 <ignoramus...@NOSPAM.446.invalid>
wrote:
> ...
> I took off the solenoid yesterday. It seemed fine. It does get "stuck"
> sometimes and does nothing when powered on. A light whack with a
> urethane hammer "unsticks" it.
>
> However, even then, it barely cranks the engine. I did check
> batteries.
> i-

The voltmeter on the battery catches everything, try it on your truck
to see normal operation. It should drop a couple of volts when the
starter loads it down. If it doesn't the current is too low for some
bad reason.

How easily does the engine turn with a wrench?

jsw

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:27 pm
From: John

Jim Wilkins wrote:
> On Mar 27, 6:15 pm, Ignoramus446<ignoramus...@NOSPAM.446.invalid>
> wrote:
>> ...
>> I took off the solenoid yesterday. It seemed fine. It does get "stuck"
>> sometimes and does nothing when powered on. A light whack with a
>> urethane hammer "unsticks" it.
>>
>> However, even then, it barely cranks the engine. I did check
>> batteries.
>> i-
>
> The voltmeter on the battery catches everything, try it on your truck
> to see normal operation. It should drop a couple of volts when the
> starter loads it down. If it doesn't the current is too low for some
> bad reason.
>
> How easily does the engine turn with a wrench?
>
> jsw

A cheap and simple way to check if you have a starter problem or a
battery problem is to turn on the headlights when you crank the engine
and see how much the headlights dim. Then feel the cables going to the
starter and see if they are warm... If they are your starter is drawing
a full load and either it is bad or the engine is stuck. A wrench on
the engine to turn the crank will determine what is bad.

John

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:32 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 17:15:43 -0500, Ignoramus446
<ignoramus446@NOSPAM.446.invalid> wrote:

>I took off the solenoid yesterday. It seemed fine. It does get "stuck"
>sometimes and does nothing when powered on. A light whack with a
>urethane hammer "unsticks" it.

>However, even then, it barely cranks the engine. I did check
>batteries.
>
>I have a feeling that this solenoid itself is bad and does not work
>right. It costs $19 to replace and I ordered a replacement. If it does
>not help, I am out $19.

Make sure you lube the shaft/bearings/pivots while you have it down.

--
If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
life is "thank you," that would suffice.
-- Meister Eckhart

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:56 pm
From: "Paul K. Dickman"

"Ignoramus446" <ignoramus446@NOSPAM.446.invalid> wrote in message
news:ONydnbk0Sa6SKhLQnZ2dnUVZ_vqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> On 2011-03-27, clare@snyder.on.ca <clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 19:30:36 -0600, "Pintlar"
>><footboarder@bresnan.net> wrote:
>>
>>>In the olden days the POS from the battery went directly to the input
>>>side
>>>of the fender solenoid (one of two heavy lugs). The other heavy lug went
>>>to
>>>the starter only. It was switched by the small center lug that was
>>>supplied
>>>power from a second small wire from the 'battery side of the solenoid.
>>>When
>>>the 'start button or key' is on and the motor will not run evenly (or
>>>start
>>>when cranked) it appears that the batter/solenoid lug is loose or
>>>corroded.
>>>Or the battery terminals. With good connections all around and the key
>>>on,
>>>it should start when cranked.
>>>***********************************
>>>"Ignoramus8104" <ignoramus8104@NOSPAM.8104.invalid> wrote in message
>>>news:YuudnesqFeKm9hPQnZ2dnUVZ_uudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>I was cranking this Continental engine, trying to get it to start. It
>>>> would sputter occasionally but would never really keep going.
>>>>
>>>> After a while, the starter stopped starting. I took off the solenoid
>>>> part from it, after taking pictures. It does not even seem that the
>>>> current goes through the solenoid coil.
>>>>
>>>> Before I start taking it apart, I wanted to hear some words of wisdom
>>>> on this. Could it at all be that the solenoid coil inside burned out?
>>>>
>>>> i
>>>
>> My understanding is this Conti has a "delco style" pre-engage starter,
>> with the solenoid not only being the switch, but engaging the drive.
>>
>> These solenoids have TWO windings - a "pull-in" and a "hold in"
>> winding.On a 3 terminal solenoid both windings connect to the small
>> "S" terminal, and one coil connects to ground, while the other
>> connects to the "M" connection (the large connector that bolts to the
>> motor winding connector).
>>
>> Check both with an ohm-meter or a continuity tester. If either one is
>> open, buy a new solenoid and install it.
>>
>> SOME of these solenoids have 4 terminals - with the fourth being a
>> second small terminal that recieves power from the battery when the
>> solenoid is pulled in to bypass the ignition ballast resistor.
>>
>> Delco solenoids are cheap.
>
> Yes. This is what it does.
>
> I took off the solenoid yesterday. It seemed fine. It does get "stuck"
> sometimes and does nothing when powered on. A light whack with a
> urethane hammer "unsticks" it.
>
> However, even then, it barely cranks the engine. I did check
> batteries.
>
> I have a feeling that this solenoid itself is bad and does not work
> right. It costs $19 to replace and I ordered a replacement. If it does
> not help, I am out $19.
>
> i

Also, check the brushes and commutator on the starter.
If they get loaded up with crud, they won't get the starter up to speed.

This ain't a 6volt is it?

Paul K. Dickman

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 5:07 pm
From: Rich Grise

John wrote:
> Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> On Mar 27, 6:15 pm, Ignoramus446<ignoramus...@NOSPAM.446.invalid>
>> wrote:
>>> ...
>>> I took off the solenoid yesterday. It seemed fine. It does get "stuck"
>>> sometimes and does nothing when powered on. A light whack with a
>>> urethane hammer "unsticks" it.
>>>
>>> However, even then, it barely cranks the engine. I did check
>>> batteries.
>>
>> The voltmeter on the battery catches everything, try it on your truck
>> to see normal operation. It should drop a couple of volts when the
>> starter loads it down. If it doesn't the current is too low for some
>> bad reason.
>>
>> How easily does the engine turn with a wrench?
>
> A cheap and simple way to check if you have a starter problem or a
> battery problem is to turn on the headlights when you crank the engine
> and see how much the headlights dim. Then feel the cables going to the
> starter and see if they are warm... If they are your starter is drawing
> a full load and either it is bad or the engine is stuck. A wrench on
> the engine to turn the crank will determine what is bad.
>
I wonder when was the last time the battery posts/terminals have been
cleaned? I once had an Econoline 100 with the old battery posts - it
would occasionally not crank, but just click a little bit. I had
one of those battery post tools, actually, had bought it specifically
for this car (ok, a van, but I called it my "tall car.") ;-)

Anyhoo, it had an inward-facing wire brush, for the lead posts, on one
end, and on the other, under a metal cap, was an outward-pointing wire
brush, for the inside of those nasty old lead terminals that always
get^H^H^ot fucked up.

I'd get out, give them a once-over, and the tall car would pop right
off.

These days, they're all copper screw things on sealed batteries, but
copper corrodes too, just from being out in the engine compartment
air. Take them off, and hit both the terminal and the battery contact
with a wire brush, aggressively.

Whether it helps or not, it couldn't hoit! ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT Are taxes killing us financially?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/901c92fab5188c72?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 3:58 pm
From: Rich Grise

F. George McDuffee wrote:

> "I'm tired of people calling for shared sacrifice and it's
> all coming from the workers and nothing's coming from the
> top," says protester Dave Sonenberg. "I'm sick of companies
> like Bank of America not paying their taxes.

But, do the people who work there, and the CEOs and stuff, pay
individual taxes? Aren't _they_ the ones you're pissed off at?

A corporation, despite the legalese defining them, is an inanimate
object.

Every time you tax a corporation, the one that ends up paying
that tax is _YOU_.

Why can't people get that through their thick skulls?

I _do_ have the solution, however:

The OUTGO tax:
http://mysite.verizon.net/richgrise/TaxTheRich!.html

Cheers!
Rich

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:15 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Rich Grise" <richg@example.net.invalid> wrote in message
news:imoffh$n12$1@dont-email.me...
> F. George McDuffee wrote:
>
>> "I'm tired of people calling for shared sacrifice and it's
>> all coming from the workers and nothing's coming from the
>> top," says protester Dave Sonenberg. "I'm sick of companies
>> like Bank of America not paying their taxes.
>
> But, do the people who work there, and the CEOs and stuff, pay
> individual taxes? Aren't _they_ the ones you're pissed off at?
>
> A corporation, despite the legalese defining them, is an inanimate
> object.

But they cost us a lot of money just to support them, from transportation
infrastructure, to communications, to a judiciary, to regulation of money,
to military defense, to fire protection, etc., etc., etc.

Institutions, especially commercial ones, create social costs of their own.
The individuals who collect the dividends ALSO create social costs of their
own.

>
> Every time you tax a corporation, the one that ends up paying
> that tax is _YOU_.

No, because the standard set for return on capital includes the cost of
taxes. Decrease taxes across the board, and capital just demands a higher
return -- across the board.

The stability that results from our enormous expenditures for corporations'
benefit reduces interest rates at both ends -- in terms of their cost of
money, and in terms of the accepted return on capital. In fact, they're two
sides of the same coin.

>
> Why can't people get that through their thick skulls?

Because it's more right-wing crapola, perpetuated by people who don't think
much or study history at all.

>
> I _do_ have the solution, however:
>
> The OUTGO tax:
> http://mysite.verizon.net/richgrise/TaxTheRich!.html

Great. You could hardly come up with a better plan to destroy the US
economy -- which is 70% consumption.

If you want to go for a VAT or a sales tax like the "National Purchase Tax,"
one big enough to replace all other taxes, you'd better first figure out
how to make up a big chunk of it with exports. And here's a clue: If we
tried it, our export markets would dry up faster than they could slam the
doors.

It's an interesting fantasy, but the consequence would be nothing more than
a shell game.

--
Ed Huntress

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:50 pm
From: Hawke

On 3/26/2011 9:27 PM, Rich Grise wrote:
> Hawke wrote:
>>
>> It makes you wonder how people can look at facts like this and not get
>> infuriated at business or the republicans for allowing this. We're all
>> paying more so wealthy and profitable businesses can pay less. That sure
>> pisses me off. I can't understand why that doesn't bother conservatives
>> and how they always make excuses for why it's a good thing. Yeah, it's
>> better for IBM to have a few thousand dollars more and I have a few
>> thousand less. I'd like to know why.
>>
> That's why the conservatives are fighting tooth and nail against Obammy
> the Commy's Socialized medicine scheme. Under it, you, that's YOU, will
> be paying even more than you are now, and getting less for it. Well,
> that's _UNLESS_ you're on the GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! GIMME! list of
> Obammy the Commy's cronies that are getting the waivers.
>
> Are you looking forward to seeing the ER run like the DMV?
>
> Thanks,
> Rich
>

What you seem to think of as socialized medicine happens to be a
completely private system. It's all done by private companies for a
profit. So it's not the government giving you health care it's private
companies. Those same companies have been providing health care
insurance coverage for as long as we have had health insurance. The cost
of that system has increased every single year. It was on a path to cost
20 cents or more of every dollar spent in the country. We can't afford
that, which is why everyone knows that we can't keep on the private
insurance coverage bandwagon. Every other country knows this is true and
is why they all have one form of "socialized health care" or another.

We're the last modern country still using the old way of doing health
care that everyone (except conservatives) knows doesn't work. If you can
explain why no other country uses a private system, why they all cover
all their people, and why they all do it for about half what we pay, I'd
love to hear it. Oh, and the statistics show the other countries'
populations are more healthy than ours too. So explain why we're
shouldn't do things the way the other countries do when they do it
better than us? Oh, and because we've always done it this way doesn't
count as a reason.

Hawke

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 5:01 pm
From: Hawke

On 3/27/2011 3:58 PM, Rich Grise wrote:
> F. George McDuffee wrote:
>
>> �I�m tired of people calling for shared sacrifice and it�s
>> all coming from the workers and nothing�s coming from the
>> top,� says protester Dave Sonenberg. �I�m sick of companies
>> like Bank of America not paying their taxes.
>
> But, do the people who work there, and the CEOs and stuff, pay
> individual taxes? Aren't _they_ the ones you're pissed off at?
>
> A corporation, despite the legalese defining them, is an inanimate
> object.
>
> Every time you tax a corporation, the one that ends up paying
> that tax is _YOU_.
>
> Why can't people get that through their thick skulls?

Maybe because what you think is wrong. You ever think of that? Here's
what some of us would like to know why you can't get something through
your thick skull. If corporations don't pay taxes, because according to
some, they just pass any taxes on to the consumer, then why would
corporations care if they are taxed? Why would a corporation try to
avoid taxes? Since they don't really pay any, why would they bother
trying to avoid them? It isn't rational to try to avoid something that
has no effect on you. So if no corporation pays any taxes but just
passes them on why would corporations do so much to avoid having to pay
any taxes. It defies logic. If taxes are all passed on it wouldn't make
any difference to a business how high taxes are.

Since that's the case, that corporations go to extreme measures to avoid
taxes that only means one thing. They do pay taxes. One way or another
they do pay taxes. If they didn't they wouldn't bother trying to avoid
them. So if corporations are willing to go to extremes to avoid taxes
maybe you should understand why they would do that. Think about it and
get back to us.

Hawke

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 5:13 pm
From: Hawke

On 3/26/2011 9:58 PM, PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
> "Rich Grise"<richg@example.net.invalid> wrote in message
> news:imlig1$943$4@dont-email.me...
>> PrecisionmachinisT wrote:
>>> "jim"<"sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt.net> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> The Fed's low interest rates are punishing savers
>>>> but it still aint working
>>>
>>> Its working fine for the already rich thank you so very much
>>>
>>
>> Wanna tax "the Rich?"
>> Replace the Income Tax with an Outgo Tax.
>>
>> Instead of a platoon of bureaucrats tracking down what people _earn_ (or
>> steal), and the rich fat cats evade anyway - hell, their "elected"
>> minions
>> wrote the loopholes, simply tax what they _SPEND_. Don't call it a sales
>> tax, though, because of the negative connotations. Call it a Purchase Tax.
>> Grocery store food, medical supplies, and pre-owned items would be TOTALLY
>> EXEMPT! If you cook your own food and aren't too proud to buy clothes at
>> the Thrift Shop, you'd pay ZERO tax!!!!
>>
>> Talk about nailing "the Rich!!!" They'd pay 10% (or 15, or 20, or whatever
>> the Congress decides and the President signs) of ALL of their purchases,
>> including greens fees, hotel bills, limos, plane tickets, Carnival
>> Cruises,
>> multi-million dollar yachts, mansions, million-dollar diamond necklaces
>> and
>> Lamborghinis for the princess's birthday, ...
>>
>> Tax restaurant food, but not tips - that'd be an income tax on the server.
>> The server will pay her taxes when she goes and buys a new designer
>> purse. ;-)
>>
>> But DO tax all Wall St. transactions.
>>
>> let me repeat that:
>>
>> Tax all Wall St. transactions at the same retail rate.
>>
>> A bonus might be that it would slow down the rampant speculation as well.
>> A
>> stock certificate wouldn't count as "used goods."
>>
>> The way I see it, it's perfect!
>>
>> Buy a $500,000,000.00 corporation, pay $50,000,000.00 Purchase Tax.
>> Buy a $50,000,000.00 mansion, pay $5,000,000.00 Purchase Tax.
>> Buy a $10,000,000.00 yacht, pay $1,000,000.00 Purchase Tax.
>> Buy a $6,000.00 designer suit, pay $600.00 Purchase tax.
>> Buy a $600.00 "regular" suit, pay $60.00 Purchase Tax.
>> Get a passable suit at the thrift shop for sixty bucks, pay no tax -
>> this would help "the poor."
>>
>> The rate might have to start a little higher at first, until we get
>> Obammy the Commy's astronomical deficit paid down, but if we could
>> also get rid of the armies of unelected bureaucrats, that would help
>> a lot.
>>
>> The politicians, bureaucrats, union bosses, prostitutes, drug dealers,
>> gamblers, and other criminals would pay tax when they SPEND their ill-
>> gotten gains.
>>
>> And nobody would be able to evade it, because it would simply be collected
>> at the Point of Sale.
>>
>> AND ALL THE INFRASTRUCTURE IS ALREADY IN PLACE!!!!
>>
>> We might have to have some discussion on used houses and used cars, but
>> isn't "discussion" what government is supposed to be about?
>>
>
> The problem is, the rich don't "spend"....instead, they tend to hold onto
> pretty much every single penny, except when using it to leverage even more
> money out of the poor.
>
> http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov/16/business/la-fi-wedbush-20101116
>

It's the same problem with all these proportional tax schemes.
Ultimately, the richest people in society wind up paying a lower overall
rate of taxes than the people making a lot less than they do. It's like
the opposite of the concept of the burden being carried by those who can
handle it the easiest. Proportional taxes are actually regressive. The
rich just don't buy enough so that they wind up paying that much in
taxes. They also go and buy things overseas to avoid taxes.

Just imagine, for someone who makes a billion a year, and yes there are
people who do, how much would they have to spend for them to pay 34% of
that billion dollars. It would be hundreds of millions. Billionaires
just don't spend hundreds of millions of dollars every year. In the end
they wing up paying only a pittance of their wealth in taxes and people
making 30K a year wind up paying half what they make. The only fair tax
system with the gross kind of income disparity we have is a progressive
one. Not only that people making a billion a year or more should be
taxed at 90%. The rich paid that rate when Eisenhower was in office and
they didn't go broke then and they won't now. Proportional tax systems
are not fair, pure and simple.

Hawke

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free Technical Books
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/d53fdd429eb3310c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:08 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 14:47:51 -0500, Ned Simmons <news@nedsim.com>
wrote:

>8 pounds PLC text, motor control voc text, 1987 NEC

I'd like these, Ned.

>You pay for USPS media mail actual cost and the books are free, as
>long as we don't get into cherry picking or extensive Q&A about
>details. Looks like worst case, Maine to California, for 45# is about
>$20.
>
>My email address is good.

Sent.

--
If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
life is "thank you," that would suffice.
-- Meister Eckhart

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:36 pm
From: Ned Simmons

On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 16:08:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
<ljaques@invalid.diversify.com> wrote:

>On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 14:47:51 -0500, Ned Simmons <news@nedsim.com>
>wrote:
>
>>8 pounds PLC text, motor control voc text, 1987 NEC
>
>I'd like these, Ned.
>
>
>>You pay for USPS media mail actual cost and the books are free, as
>>long as we don't get into cherry picking or extensive Q&A about
>>details. Looks like worst case, Maine to California, for 45# is about
>>$20.
>>
>>My email address is good.
>
>Sent.

That lot goes to Larry.

--
Ned Simmons

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Inverter schematics
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7d8574d5b799efb5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:10 pm
From: "Arao H. Filho"

On 27 mar, 19:05, Bob Engelhardt <bobengelha...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Arao H. Filho wrote:
> > Hi guys, I'm working on a project of a single phase motor VFD
> > inverter, and want some schematics to see how some problems were
> > solved. ...
>
> I know this isn't an answer to your question, but it might save you a
> lot of grief: if you're planning on running a single phase motor, i.e.,
> an induction motor, with a variable frequency, it won't work. Single
> phase induction motors are designed for a specific frequency and giving
> them a frequency much different than a limited range will stall them.
>
> On the other hand, if your project is to generate variable 3 phase from
> single phase input, it's been done and is available so cheaply that it
> is really not worth your time & material cost.
>
> Bob

Bob, there will be no problem making use of the two windings of the
motor, the inverter will replace the start capacitor and provide the
neccesary phase and magnitude levels as required for the proper
operation.

Using only the two wires of the motor with the internal capacitor,
that's rated for the nominal frequency can't result on the maximum
torque, and on this case the motor will stall on the lower
frequencies.

--
Arao H. F.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheapest Can Trimmer
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7ec83eb051eca5a5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:29 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 15:12:21 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
<kb1dal@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mar 27, 2:17 pm, Larry Jaques <ljaq...@invalid.diversify.com>
>wrote:
>> ...>
>> Which gives a large red-background box saying "Sorry, Charlie. No can
>> do."
>
>Maybe they hired Santa Claus during his off season and he KNOWS that
>you've been bad.
>
>Anyway, Whedon's current project has potential:
>http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0848228/

Nah, the revised stuff is never as good as the original.
The MI movies were the exceptions.

--
If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
life is "thank you," that would suffice.
-- Meister Eckhart

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:39 pm
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 27, 7:29 pm, Larry Jaques <ljaq...@invalid.diversify.com>
wrote:
> ...>
> If the only prayer you ever say in your whole
> life is "thank you," that would suffice.
> -- Meister Eckhart

I've said that after many flights in Army aircraft.

jsw

==============================================================================
TOPIC: FS: misc involute gear cutters
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fd6d1e76ecd01591?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:37 pm
From: Ned Simmons

On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 15:36:08 -0500, Ned Simmons <news@nedsim.com>
wrote:

>3 English pitch:
>
>Pitch PA Teeth Bore OD
>
>4 14-1/2 21-25 1.250 4-1/4
>
>4 14-1/2 135-rack 1.250 4-1/4
>
>5 14-1/2 55-134 1.250 3-3/4
>
>and a metric module cutter:
>
>Module .7, 17-20 teeth, 1.250 bore, 4-1/2 OD
>
>They're sharp and look practically new. $30 including shipping in the
>US via USPS medium flat rate box.

The gear cutters are spoken for.

--
Ned Simmons

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 115 pc drill sets a waste?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1e562a1dbbbb3a9a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 4:54 pm
From: Winston

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> Carla Fong<carla_xspamx@97381.com> fired this volley in
> news:maudncgVyqjlnxPQnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> That reminded me of the
>> drill bit calculator we wrote a while ago - measure what you need with
>> your caliper, enter the dimension in the utility and it pops up nearest
>> drill size.
>>
>
> The idea of using a computer to figure out which bit to use just leaves
> me cold...
>
> What's wrong with a simple wall chart?

Carla's utility is growing to encompass the information
that machinists need in one place. It'll answer the most
critical questions we have about RPM and depth clearance
as well as the proper drill for a given tap size.

Think of it as a Grand Unified Wall Chart. :)

--Winston

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 5:14 pm
From: Gerald Miller

On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 17:38:59 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:

>Carla Fong <carla_xspamx@97381.com> fired this volley in
>news:maudncgVyqjlnxPQnZ2dnUVZ_vmdnZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> That reminded me of the
>> drill bit calculator we wrote a while ago - measure what you need with
>> your caliper, enter the dimension in the utility and it pops up nearest
>> drill size.
>>
>
>The idea of using a computer to figure out which bit to use just leaves
>me cold...
>
>What's wrong with a simple wall chart?
>
>*(and no... I am not a luddite... about to buy a new CNC lathe)*
>
>LLoyd
Who has wall space for charts?
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lessons from Japan
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/90536376583fb9a9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 5:12 pm
From: Curly Surmudgeon

On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 18:33:03 -0400, Mouse <mice42@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 3/26/2011 6:22 PM, Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 10:21:22 -0700, wsnell01@hotmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hey, while you're at it, put the whole nuke plant underwater!
>>
>> Not an engineer, are you?
>>
>>
> Heh, France is doing that:
>
> http://blogs.forbes.com/williampentland/2011/01/21/france-building-
underwater-nuclear-plants/

"French Engineer" is an oxymoron. Don't believe me? Drive a Renault...

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to
unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not
involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation." --Barack
Obama, 12/20/07
------------------------------------------------------------------------

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 27 2011 5:14 pm
From: Curly Surmudgeon

On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 12:25:03 -0700, CanopyCo <Junk74020@aol.com> wrote:

> On Mar 26, 11:53 am, Curly Surmudgeon <CurlySurmudg...@live.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 06:25:31 -0700, CanopyCo <Junk74...@aol.com> wrote:
>> > ...plenty get hurt packing 80 pound bags of ready mix...
>>
>> In Argentina cement comes in 50kg bags, that's 110lbs. Even I have a
>> difficult time jerking it to my shoulder.
>>
>>
> That is cement.
>
> I'm talking about ready mix.
> It already has the sand and rock in it.

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

==============================================================================

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Sunday, March 27, 2011

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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