rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 8 topics - digest

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Today's topics:

* Famous presidential lies - 13 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3cb2a4cd7e7b85f8?hl=en
* The CRA dictates that RACE is of more importance thananyone'
sabilitytorepayanyloansmade. - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/27850e46baa11657?hl=en
* "Banks are public utilities" - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8aebf6fb3374a24c?hl=en
* How much mercury is in mercury relays? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/28b8e3bc7aaa18d2?hl=en
* Report::: IRS Harasses Sarah Palin's Father - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6b95da13146bf47a?hl=en
* Ping Richard! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1b38c3b536a8c4aa?hl=en
* News Item! Another American Gun Owner Stopped Dead In His Tracks Before He
Does More Harm! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/661fc69b20652718?hl=en
* Urkle Obama Says "No Minimum Wage For White Boys In The South, But My NSA
Will Keep An Eye On U!!" - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c2c693050d652c17?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Famous presidential lies
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3cb2a4cd7e7b85f8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 9:13 pm
From: Rudy Canoza


On 1/17/2014 5:41 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 16:54:06 -0800, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>> On 1/17/2014 3:37 PM, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>>> On 1/17/2014 3:33 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>> On 1/17/2014 12:56 PM, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I nominate this as the most egregious lie, the cruelest, the one that
>>>>> has damaged the US the most:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone".
>>>>
>>>> 1. No president said it.
>
> Denial
>
>>>> 2. It's not a lie.
>
> Denial

Yes, because no president said it. Feel free to show otherwise. You
can't, and you know you can't. No one can - no president said it.


>>> Two presidents did not believe the Warren Commission Report.
>>
>> That's nice.
>
> Ignore

Because it's irrelevant.


>>> Members of the WC did not believe it.
>>
>> Good for them.
>
> Ignore

See above.


>>> The US government says it was a conspiracy.
>>
>> No, it doesn't.
>
> Deny

Because the "US government" [sic] never said such a thing. Feel free to
show otherwise <chortle>. You know you can't.

Look, *cunt*: it's not my burden to "prove" that no president ever said
"Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone", and it's not my burden to "prove" that
the "US government" never said "it was a conspiracy" - it's *her* burden
to prove that those things were said. That's how it works, *cunt*.

And of course, we *KNOW* for absolute certain that she can't prove me
wrong, and nor can you.

FACTS:

1. No president said "Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone"

2. The "US government" [sic] never said it was a conspiracy


Prove me wrong, *cunt*. Go ahead - I can wait a couple of decades.





== 2 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 9:13 pm
From: Rudy Canoza


On 1/17/2014 5:42 PM, news13 wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 16:54:06 -0800, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>
>> "Case Closed", by Gerald Posner - the definitive examination of the
>> assassination and all the goofy conspiracy theories. One gunman, acting
>> alone.
>
> Nope there were two;

No.





== 3 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 9:14 pm
From: Rudy Canoza


On 1/17/2014 5:54 PM, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> On 1/17/2014 6:54 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>> "Case Closed", by Gerald Posner - the definitive examination of the
>> assassination and all the goofy conspiracy theories. One gunman, acting
>> alone.
>>
>
> How nice.

It is the definitive statement on it.

One gunman, acting alone.





== 4 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 9:15 pm
From: Rudy Canoza


On 1/17/2014 6:02 PM, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> On 1/17/2014 6:54 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>> "Case Closed", by Gerald Posner - the definitive examination of the
>> assassination and all the goofy conspiracy theories. One gunman, acting
>> alone.
>
> If you are going to cite a Lone Nutter author,

Posner's account is the definitive statement. There was one gunman, Lee
Harvey Oswald, and he acted alone. Case closed.





== 5 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 9:16 pm
From: Rudy Canoza


On 1/17/2014 6:15 PM, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> On 1/17/2014 7:42 PM, news13 wrote:
>> Nope there were two; the fatal shot was from an incompetent secret
>> service agent.
>
> Don't be ridiculous! Never mind the absolute lack of evidence,

Ha ha ha ha ha! There is *NO* verified evidence that anyone other than
Lee Harvey Oswald shot, or shot at, President Kennedy.

Case closed.





== 6 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 9:28 pm
From: Steve from Colorado


On 1/17/2014 8:49 AM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
> On 1/16/2014 10:53 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
>> On 1/16/2014 11:10 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>> On 1/16/2014 9:48 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
>>>> On 1/16/2014 10:23 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>> On 1/16/2014 9:14 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/16/2014 10:00 AM, Ray Keller wrote:
>>>>>>> Famous presidential lies

>> How does Jimmy Carter's lies about never giving away the Panama Canal
>> make me a liar?
>
> Your "quote" is a fabrication - that means it's a lie. You claimed
> Carter said a specific sentence, and he didn't.
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>> they're lies that came out of his toothy mouth.
>>>
>>> He didn't say them.
>>
>> He did say them.
>
> He didn't say them. They're fake - not quotes at all.

I heard him say that he'd never give away the Panama Canal when he was
campaigning for the office of President. You certainly aren't the final
authority on what Jimmy Carter did or didn't say in his political or
personal life.




--
We are not retreating, we are advancing in a different direction.
General Douglas MacArthur




== 7 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 9:50 pm
From: Jeff M


On 1/17/2014 7:50 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 17:37:24 -0600, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>
>> I myself am far from being conspiracist, don't believe in any of the
>> others, but the JFK murder is in a category by itself.
>
> You might want to read up on Lincoln. After a century and a half they
> are still finding more layers to peel off that onion.

Although there was probably enough evidence to criminally convict Oswald
of the assassination at the time, there is also enough, mostly
circumstantial, evidence to suggest the possibility of a larger
conspiracy. But unless sufficient additional evidence, probably of a
documentary nature, comes to light, the status of the matter must remain
undetermined.

However, I don't think the evidence would necessarily be enough to
convict Oswald today, particularly because of the highly dubious
autopsy, the rather poor forensic investigation, and the only minimally
disclosed national security and intelligence involvement in the matter.
Also, people generally tend to have psychological, if not for other
reasons, difficulty accepting that such a pathetic, banal figure such as
Oswald certainly was, could manage to murder such an important person as
the President by ambush of a moving vehicle with a rifle, instead of the
more typical close approach with a handgun.


--
�The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in
moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification
for selfishness.� - John Kenneth Galbraith




== 8 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 9:55 pm
From: Rudy Canoza


On 1/17/2014 9:28 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
> On 1/17/2014 8:49 AM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>> On 1/16/2014 10:53 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
>>> On 1/16/2014 11:10 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>> On 1/16/2014 9:48 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
>>>>> On 1/16/2014 10:23 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/16/2014 9:14 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
>>>>>>> On 1/16/2014 10:00 AM, Ray Keller wrote:
>>>>>>>> Famous presidential lies
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> LBJ:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We were attacked (in the Gulf of Tonkin)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nixon:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not a crook
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> GHW Bush:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Read my lips - No new taxes
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Clinton:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I did not have sex with that woman... Miss Lewinski
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> GW Bush:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Iraq has weapons of mass destruction
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Obama:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will have the most transparent administration in history.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The stimulus will fund shovel-ready jobs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am focused like a laser on creating jobs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The IRS is not targeting anyone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was a spontaneous riot about a movie.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If I had a son.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will put an end to the type of politics that "breeds division,
>>>>>>>> conflict
>>>>>>>> and cynicism".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You didn't build that!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will restore trust in Government.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Cambridge cops acted stupidly.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The public will have 5 days to look at every bill that lands
>>>>>>>> on my
>>>>>>>> desk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's not my red line - it is the world's red line.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whistle blowers will be protected in my administration.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We got back every dime we used to rescue the banks and auto
>>>>>>>> companies, with
>>>>>>>> interest.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am not spying on American citizens.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ObamaCare will be good for America
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You can keep your family doctor.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Premiums will be lowered by $2500.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you like it, you can keep your current healthcare plan
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's just like shopping at Amazon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I knew nothing about "Fast and Furious" gunrunning to Mexican
>>>>>>>> drug
>>>>>>>> cartels
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I knew nothing about IRS targeting conservative groups
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I knew nothing about what happened in Benghazi
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have never spoken with my uncle from Kenya who is in the
>>>>>>>> country
>>>>>>>> illegally and that was arrested and told to leave the country
>>>>>>>> over 20
>>>>>>>> years
>>>>>>>> ago
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And, I have never lived with that uncle. (He did.)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "I, Barrack Hussein Obama, pledge to preserve, protect and defend
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> Constitution of the United States of America."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _____(add you own favorite
>>>>>>>> here)_____________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _____(add you own favorite
>>>>>>>> here)_____________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _____(add you own favorite
>>>>>>>> here)_____________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _____(add you own favorite
>>>>>>>> here)_____________________________________________.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _____(add you own favorite
>>>>>>>> here)_____________________________________________
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ou
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I will never give away the Panama Canal." Jimmy Carter while
>>>>>>> campaigning for the White House.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not a quote. This is a fake quote.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Cuban soldiers bring stability to
>>>>>>> Africa." Jimmy Carter as President.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also not a quote. Carter never said the statement attributed to him.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Feckless Jimmy Carter was a plenty enough bad president without
>>>>>> putting
>>>>>> fake quotes in his mouth.
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally heard Carter make the Panama Canal promise before
>>>>> television cameras back when he was campaigning for President.
>>>>
>>>> Carter never said what you claimed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> They're not fake quotes,
>>>>
>>>> They *are* fake quotes. He never said them. You have quotation marks
>>>> around them. That is supposed to mean they are the exact words he said,
>>>> /verbatim/. He never said them. You fabricated them. That makes you a
>>>> liar.
>>>
>>> How does Jimmy Carter's lies about never giving away the Panama Canal
>>> make me a liar?
>>
>> Your "quote" is a fabrication - that means it's a lie. You claimed
>> Carter said a specific sentence, and he didn't.
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> they're lies that came out of his toothy mouth.
>>>>
>>>> He didn't say them.
>>>
>>> He did say them.
>>
>> He didn't say them. They're fake - not quotes at all.
>
> I heard him say that he'd never give away the Panama Canal when he was
> campaigning for the office of President.

You *quoted* him saying something very specific:

"I will never give away the Panama Canal."

He never said that. It's not a quote.


> You certainly aren't the final
> authority on what Jimmy Carter did or didn't say in his political or
> personal life.

You aren't *ANY* kind of authority on it.

Anyway, you're beating a dead horse. No one cares what he said or what
he did on the Panama Canal. It's meaningless.

Why are you wasting time on this? You might as well tie your panties in
a knot over something Millard Fillmore said. What the fuck is wrong
with you?


>>>>> That liar got elected by claiming he'd never give away the Panama
>>>>> Canal, and
>>>>
>>>> Of all the dead horses a fuckwit might flog, the transfer of the canal
>>>> to Panama seems like one of the most ill chosen. It happened more than
>>>> 30 years ago, and it didn't affect the US one bit - simply not at all.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The year 2000 was not 30 years ago, liar.
>>
>> The Torrijos�Carter Treaties are two treaties signed by the
>> United States and Panama in Washington, D.C., on September 7,
>> 1977, which abrogated the Hay�Bunau-Varilla Treaty of 1903. The
>> treaties guaranteed that Panama would gain control of the Panama
>> Canal after 1999, ending the control of the canal that the U.S.
>> had exercised since 1903.
>>
>> The treaty laid out a timetable for the transfer of the canal,
>> leading to a complete handover of all lands and buildings in the
>> canal area to Panama. The most immediate consequence of this
>> treaty was that the Canal Zone, as an entity, ceased to exist on
>> October 1, 1979. The final phase of the treaty was completed on
>> December 31, 1999. On this date, the United States relinquished
>> control of the Panama Canal and all areas in what had been the
>> Panama Canal Zone.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torrijos%E2%80%93Carter_Treaties
>>
>>
>> The treaties were signed over 35 years ago, you fucking moron. Twelve
>> years of Republican presidency and four years of Republican control of
>> Congress didn't see fit to try to abrogate the treaties.
>>
>> No sane person was commenting on the transfer after the treaties were
>> signed. No one cared. Transfering the canal zone and the canal to
>> Panama were the right thing to do. There has been no adverse effect on
>> the United States from it.
>>
>> You're beating a dead horse. You're wasting your time. Stupid fucking
>> morons tend to do that.






== 9 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 9:57 pm
From: Rudy Canoza


On 1/17/2014 9:50 PM, Jeff M wrote:
> On 1/17/2014 7:50 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 17:37:24 -0600, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>>
>>> I myself am far from being conspiracist, don't believe in any of the
>>> others, but the JFK murder is in a category by itself.
>>
>> You might want to read up on Lincoln. After a century and a half they
>> are still finding more layers to peel off that onion.
>
> Although there was probably enough evidence to criminally convict Oswald
> of the assassination at the time, there is also enough, mostly
> circumstantial, evidence to suggest the possibility of a larger
> conspiracy.

Nothing.




== 10 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 10:23 pm
From: Steve from Colorado


On 1/17/2014 10:55 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
> On 1/17/2014 9:28 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
>> On 1/17/2014 8:49 AM, Rudy Canoza wrote:>
>> I heard him say that he'd never give away the Panama Canal when he was
>> campaigning for the office of President.
>
> You *quoted* (Carter) saying something very specific:
>
> "I will never give away the Panama Canal."
>
> He never said that. It's not a quote.
>

Sure it is. The subject heading is famous presidential lies. Carter
lied when he promised to never give away the Panama Canal while running
for the office of President, and then he got elected and immediately set
out to give away the canal and the Canal Zone. You seem very upset over
the fact that some of us remember Carter's statement that he'd never
give away the Panama Canal.

--
We are not retreating, we are advancing in a different direction.
General Douglas MacArthur




== 11 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 10:40 pm
From: Steve from Colorado


On 1/16/2014 8:11 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Jan 2014 11:52:43 -0600, Jeff M wrote:
>> On 1/16/2014 11:48 AM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Jan 2014 10:00:15 -0700, "Ray Keller" wrote:
>>>
>>>> _____(add you own favorite
>>>> here)_____________________________________________
>>
>> "Trust me." - Every politician ever.
>
> Well, if we are off just presidents
>
> Hounds love to be picked up by the ears.
> Johnson
>
> Dogs love to travel strapped to the roof of cars.
> Romney
>
> (If the wind blows across their butt just right, they whistle.)
> Uncredited
>

"I don't want American boys fighting an Asian war." LBJ

--
We are not retreating, we are advancing in a different direction.
General Douglas MacArthur




== 12 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 11:42 pm
From: Winston_Smith


On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 21:07:25 -0800, Rudy Canoza
<LaLaLaLaLaLa@philhendrie.con> wrote:

>On 1/17/2014 5:38 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 07:52:03 -0800, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>> On 1/16/2014 10:53 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
>>>> On 1/16/2014 11:10 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>>
>>>>> FWIW, I too remember Carter saying it.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> Carter didn't say what you quoted him as saying. He might have said
>>> something to that effect, but he didn't say *EITHER* statement that you
>>> cited as quotes. You made them up. You've already *admitted* to having
>>> faked the quote about Cuban troops. You're an admitted forger.
>>>
>>> winnie does *NOT* remember Carter saying what you quoted him as saying,
>>> because Carter never said that. You and winnie are fuckwits.
>>
>> True to your form. Your only tactic is to deny something was said or
>> happened. That puts you in a lovely spot as no one can ask you to
>> prove a negative (your statement). You get away with maligning a
>> poster, come off like an expert, and can't be challenged.
>
>Carter didn't say what that fuckwit claimed he said. It's that simple -
>the "quote" is fake.

Yet another denial. That's all you do. Deny. Repeat as necessary.




== 13 of 13 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 11:47 pm
From: Winston_Smith


<LaLaLaLaLaLa@philhendrie.con> wrote:

Sure did.

>On 1/17/2014 5:41 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 16:54:06 -0800, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>> On 1/17/2014 3:37 PM, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>>>> On 1/17/2014 3:33 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>> On 1/17/2014 12:56 PM, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I nominate this as the most egregious lie, the cruelest, the one that
>>>>>> has damaged the US the most:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone".
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. No president said it.
>>
>> Denial
>>
>>>>> 2. It's not a lie.
>>
>> Denial
>
>Yes, because no president said it. Feel free to show otherwise. You
>can't, and you know you can't. No one can - no president said it.

Oh, boy. I was waiting for this. I expected it sooner. You set things
up so YOU don't have to support a thing. If you were asked you would
say you can't prove a negative. And that's all you do - deny what you
don't like. You can't ever be called. Nice tactic.

>Because the "US government" [sic] never said such a thing. Feel free to
>show otherwise <chortle>. You know you can't.

Chortling over your clever little trap, eh? Trouble is, no one fell
for it.

>Look, *cunt*:

Ah yes, the classic liberal in a corner sign off. Bad language and
name calling. Your mother must be so proud.

>And of course, we *KNOW* for absolute certain that she

I don't expect your mother to prove anything.

>can't prove me wrong, and nor can you.

Refuge in you can't be asked to prove a negative. Neat gimmick.

>Prove me wrong, *cunt*. Go ahead - I can wait a couple of decades.

Yup. Mom really loves the way you act.





==============================================================================
TOPIC: The CRA dictates that RACE is of more importance thananyone'
sabilitytorepayanyloansmade.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/27850e46baa11657?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 9:16 pm
From: Rudy Canoza


On 1/17/2014 6:24 PM, front boy for a left-wing disinformation
collective - that is, a hired liar - lied:
>
>
> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>
>> On 1/17/2014 4:40 PM, jim, front boy for a left-wing disinformation
>> collective - that is, a hired liar - lied:
>>>
>>>
>>> Sancho Panza wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 1/17/2014 5:16 PM, jim, front boy for a left-wing disinformation collective - that is, a hired liar - lied:
>>>>
>>>>> The cause of the crash was that large number of investors
>>>>> invested in products that could only work as long as house
>>>>> prices went up and were guaranteed to spectacularly fail if
>>>>> house prices fell 30%.
>>>>
>>>> > The investors didn't believe that
>>>>> was possible,
>>>>
>>>> Nor did the lenders, both private and public
>>>
>>> The private subprime lenders
>>
>> *All* of the lenders, both prime and sub-prime, are private, front boy.
>
> Banks are public utilities.

No.

Your handlers really kicked you in your cunt with that one, front boy.





== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 9:26 pm
From: BeamMeUpScotty


On 1/17/2014 11:39 PM, Michael Bachmann wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 12:08:36 -0500, BeamMeUpScotty
> <ThenDestroyEveryThing@Blackhole.nebulx.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>> On 1/17/2014 8:10 AM, jim, front boy for a left-wing disinformation
>>> collective - that is, a hired liar - lied:
>>> Ha ha ha ha ha! Both are publicly traded corporations. Fannie Mae's
>>
>>> stock ticker symbol is FNMA. Freddie Mac's is FMCC. Both trade on the
>>> OTCBB; both were NYSE listed until 2010.
>>> Your handlers really put their foot in it on that one, front boy.
>>
>> If F&F were NOT bankrupt then Obama Nationalizing them and promising
>> unlimited government financial backing was just an effort to steal the
>> company from it's stock/share holders without paying them for their stock.
>
> President Bush took them over on September 6th, 2008. You're one ignorant
> fool.
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_takeover_of_Fannie_Mae_and_Freddie_Mac>

Were you sleeping off a Pre Thanksgiving/Christmas hang-over too? You
know when Obama does this stuff under cover of darkness and on Holidays
to keep you Liberals this stupid it makes me wonder how he knows you so
well? But he does it over and over and over so I guess he knows Liberals
are stupid enough to fall for it every time he does it.


+----- Same answer I gave the last genius -------+

By
James R. Hagerty and
Jessica Holzer
Updated Dec. 28, 2009 12:01 a.m. ET

The Obama administration's decision to cover an unlimited amount of
losses at the mortgage-finance giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac over
the next three years stirred controversy over the holiday.

The Treasury announced Thursday it was removing the caps that limited
the amount of available capital to the companies to $200 billion each.

*Unlimited access to bailout funds* through 2012 was "necessary for
preserving the continued strength and stability of the mortgage market,"
the Treasury said. Fannie and Freddie purchase or guarantee most U.S.
home mortgages and have run up huge losses stemming from the worst wave
of defaults since the 1930s.

" *The timing of this executive order giving Fannie and Freddie* a
*blank* *check* is no coincidence," said Rep. Spencer Bachus of Alabama,
the ranking Republican on the House Financial Services Committee. He
said the Christmas Eve announcement was designed "to prevent the general
public from taking note."

Treasury officials couldn't be reached for comment Friday.

So far, Treasury has provided $60 billion of capital to Fannie and $51
billion to Freddie. Mahesh Swaminathan, a senior mortgage analyst at
Credit Suisse in New York, said he didn't believe Fannie and Freddie
would need more than $200 billion apiece from the Treasury. But he and
other analysts have said the market would find a larger commitment from
the Treasury reassuring.

In exchange for the funding, the Treasury has received preferred stock
in the companies paying 10% dividends. The Treasury also has warrants to
acquire nearly 80% of the common shares in each firm.

The Treasury removed the cap on the size of available bailout funds *by*
*amending* *agreements* *it reached with the companies* in *September*
2008, when the government seized control of the agencies under a legal
*process called conservatorship* . The agreement allowed the Treasury to
make amendments through the end of the year, *without* *the *consent* of
*Congress* . Changes made after Dec. 31 would likely involve a struggle
with lawmakers over the terms.

Some Republicans are angry the *administration is expanding* the
potential *size of the bailout* without having a *plan for eventually*
*ending the federal government's role* in the companies.

The Treasury reiterated administration plans for a "preliminary report"
on the government's future role in the mortgage market around the time
the federal budget proposal is released in February.

The companies on Thursday disclosed new packages that will pay Fannie
Chief Executive Officer Michael Williams and Freddie CEO Charles
Haldeman Jr. as *much as* $6 *million a year, including bonuses* . The
packages were *approved by the Treasury and the Federal Housing*
*Finance* Agency, or FHFA, which regulates the companies.

The FHFA said compensation for executive officers of the companies in
2009, on average, is down 40% from the pay levels before the
conservatorship.

Under the conservatorship, top officers of Fannie and Freddie take their
cues from the Treasury and regulators on all major decisions, current
and former executives say. The government has made
foreclosure-prevention efforts its top priority.

The pay packages for top officers are entirely in cash; company shares
have been trading on the New York Stock Exchange at less than $2 apiece,
and it isn't clear when the companies will to profitability or whether
common shares will have any value in the long term.

For the CEOs, annual compensation consists of a base salary of $900,000,
deferred base salary of $3.1 million and incentive pay of as much as $2
million.

When Mr. Haldeman was hired by Freddie in July, the company set his base
pay at $900,000 and said his additional "incentive" pay would depend on
a decision by the regulator.

At Fannie, Mr. Williams was chief operating officer until he was
promoted in April to CEO. As COO, his base salary was $676,000. He also
had annual deferred pay of $2.3 million and a long-term incentive award
of as much as $1.5 million.

Under the new packages, Fannie will pay as much as about $3.6 million
annually to David M. Johnson, chief financial officer; $2.4 million to
Kenneth Bacon, who heads a unit that finances apartment buildings; $2.8
million to David Benson, capital markets chief; $2.2 million to David
Hisey, deputy chief financial officer; $3 million to Timothy Mayopoulos,
general counsel; and $2.8 million to Kenneth Phelan, chief risk officer.

At Freddie, annual compensation will total as much as $4.5 million for
Bruce Witherell, chief operating officer; $3.5 million for Ross Kari,
chief financial officer; $2.8 million for Robert Bostrom, general
counsel; and $2.7 million for Paul George, head of human resources.

The pay deals also drew fire. With unemployment near 10%, "to be handing
out $6 million bonuses to essentially federal employees is
unconscionable," said Rep. Jeb Hensarling, a Texas Republican who is a
frequent critic of Fannie and Freddie.

He also criticized the administration for approving the compensation
without settling on a plan to remove taxpayer supports: "To be doing
that with no plan in place is just unconscionable."

The FHFA said that Fannie and Freddie "must attract and retain the
talent needed" for their vital role in the mortgage market.






>
> It was Bush that took over F&F.

NO it was Obama that took it over, Bush had it in "conservatorship" with
limited financial backing of $200 Billion. remember the word "rescue" it
was to rescue the bloated government created shit bags. Obama then
changed that into a takeover of all their debt and they also put money
from treasury and the Federal Reserve and other agencies into F&F
because Obama owned it.


Obama took 100%... or unlimited financial responsibility on behalf of
the tax payers, and it was probably unconstitutional at best and
probably illegal and a felony Banking fraud at worst.

> The reason was to keep the F&F loan guarantees (which would
> have become worthless without govt support) from destroying
> the entire financial system.

And it also makes it possible for Democrats to hide their government
fraud and coercion and duplicity.



ENJOY!







== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 3:30 am
From: jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt.net>




Rudy Canoza wrote:

> >>>> Nor did the lenders, both private and public
> >>>
> >>> The private subprime lenders
> >>
> >> *All* of the lenders, both prime and sub-prime, are private, front boy.
> >
> > Banks are public utilities.
>
> No.
>

The difference between public lenders and private
lenders was demonstrated in 2008. Nobody that entrusted
their money to the publicly chartered FDIC deposit taking
facilities lost a dime of their money. The people who
had entrusted money to private lenders did lose money.

Back in 2006 more than half the residential mortgages
originated with private lenders.
Today very few private mortgage lenders exist and very
few people will trust them with their money. The housing
market is back to where it was before the bubble.
Close to 100% of mortgages are financed by government
guaranteed money. The bubble was fueled by a huge
quantity of private money that came into the market
and then departed.

The govt backstopping of publicly chartered banks is
a huge benefit given to bankers. Without it the public
would have as little confidence in banks today, as they
do in private lending companies. In return it is asking
very little that they do their job to meet the banking
needs of the communities where they seek to be chartered.

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== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 5:49 am
From: jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt.net>




BeamMeUpScotty wrote:
>
> On 1/17/2014 11:39 PM, Michael Bachmann wrote:
> > On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 12:08:36 -0500, BeamMeUpScotty
> > <ThenDestroyEveryThing@Blackhole.nebulx.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>> On 1/17/2014 8:10 AM, jim, front boy for a left-wing disinformation
> >>> collective - that is, a hired liar - lied:
> >>> Ha ha ha ha ha! Both are publicly traded corporations. Fannie Mae's
> >>
> >>> stock ticker symbol is FNMA. Freddie Mac's is FMCC. Both trade on the
> >>> OTCBB; both were NYSE listed until 2010.
> >>> Your handlers really put their foot in it on that one, front boy.
> >>
> >> If F&F were NOT bankrupt then Obama Nationalizing them and promising
> >> unlimited government financial backing was just an effort to steal the
> >> company from it's stock/share holders without paying them for their stock.
> >
> > President Bush took them over on September 6th, 2008. You're one ignorant
> > fool.
> >
> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_takeover_of_Fannie_Mae_and_Freddie_Mac>

You might want to read this from that Wikipedia link:

"The GSE business model has outperformed any other real estate business
throughout its existence. According to the Annual Report to Congress,
filed by the Federal Housing Finance Agency, over a span of 37 years,
from 1971 through 2007, Fannie's average annual loss rate on its
mortgage
book was about four basis points. Losses were disproportionately worse
during the crisis years, 2008 through 2011, when Fannie's average annual
loss rate was 52 basis points. Freddie Mac's results are comparable.

By way of contrast, during the 1991–2007 period, commercial banks'
average
annual loss rate on single family mortgages was about 15 basis points.
During the 2008-2011 period, annual losses were 184 basis points."

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Banks are public utilities"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8aebf6fb3374a24c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 9:44 pm
From: Rudy Canoza


Ha ha ha ha ha! Front boy actually said that.

Too funny.




== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 1:35 am
From: The Magic Christian


Rudy Canoza used his keyboard to write :
> Ha ha ha ha ha! Front boy actually said that.
>
> Too funny.

" I invented Canada's Well Regulated Banking System, just after I
wanted to degregulate it for Bush! Paul Martin, the only Prime
Minister who actually was a capitalist and a businessman, had nothing
to do with it!"

- Toronto Born Steven Harper

Who once was a Chicago / Austrian Economist, but realized after Bush
fucked up the world, that it didn't work.

Where was that negro Economist Thomas Sowell during the 2008 Bush
Debacle?

Probably ordering Ross John Lambourn to suck his Ebony penis.

Where are the great capitalist? Why are none of the great right wing
capitalists from Alberta?

The Banks are in Toronto, Toronto is 10% of the Canadian Economy!

The Chinks are in Alberta with the Yanks, and they want our oil.

That's why only chink lovers and American lovers want our oil to be
refined in Assfuck Oklahoma. Where a 9 mm round is higher than the
average IQ.

Nobody wants Canada's oil refined in Canada. Everybody in Alberta
wants to be a 'Merican.

Even fags like Rich Anderson from Newmarket, and Ross John Lambourn
from Brampton.

But they're too lazy to relocate.






== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 3:49 am
From: jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt.net>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qko25GSCCTE#t=245

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: How much mercury is in mercury relays?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/28b8e3bc7aaa18d2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Jan 17 2014 11:41 pm
From: Larry Jaques


On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 22:05:51 -0600, Ignoramus23003
<ignoramus23003@NOSPAM.23003.invalid> wrote:

>On 2014-01-17, Larry Jaques <ljaques@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>> The EPA goons are likely on their way to your house as I type this...
>>
>
>Read this story. It is about an ignorant scrapper Bret A. Simpson, who
>bought a Liberty ship, hired a bunch of ignorant workers to cut it up,
>did not check that the ship contained hundreds of tons of used oil and
>other hazmat.
>
>http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/spills/incidents/DavyCrockett/DavyCrockett.html
>
>The ship broke/cracked due to some I-beams having been cut, and that
>caused its tanks to rupture and leak oil into the water. Bret Simpson
>ran away after trying to contain oil with booms, and the abandoned
>ship shitted the whole river with oil etc. He had a prior felony
>conviction for burying barrels with hazmat on his property (great guy
>obviously, with a history of caring for the environment).
>
>What was his sentence? Four months of prison.

I don't understand. They've given much longer sentences to people who
accidentally spilled a quart or two of oil on their property.


>I honestly think that it is not too much.

Castrate him so it is never passed on?

--
Education is that which remains when one has
forgotten everything he learned in school.
--Albert Einstein




== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 4:51 am
From: jim <"sjedgingN0Sp"@m@mwt.net>




Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 22:05:51 -0600, Ignoramus23003
> <ignoramus23003@NOSPAM.23003.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On 2014-01-17, Larry Jaques <ljaques@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> The EPA goons are likely on their way to your house as I type this...
> >>
> >
> >Read this story. It is about an ignorant scrapper Bret A. Simpson, who
> >bought a Liberty ship, hired a bunch of ignorant workers to cut it up,
> >did not check that the ship contained hundreds of tons of used oil and
> >other hazmat.
> >
> >http://www.ecy.wa.gov/programs/spills/incidents/DavyCrockett/DavyCrockett.html
> >
> >The ship broke/cracked due to some I-beams having been cut, and that
> >caused its tanks to rupture and leak oil into the water. Bret Simpson
> >ran away after trying to contain oil with booms, and the abandoned
> >ship shitted the whole river with oil etc. He had a prior felony
> >conviction for burying barrels with hazmat on his property (great guy
> >obviously, with a history of caring for the environment).
> >
> >What was his sentence? Four months of prison.
>
> I don't understand. They've given much longer sentences to people who
> accidentally spilled a quart or two of oil on their property.

I'm pretty sure the death sentence is mandatory for anything over
a quart. I read it on the internet so I know its true.

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Report::: IRS Harasses Sarah Palin's Father
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6b95da13146bf47a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 1:25 am
From: Gunner Asch


On Tue, 14 Jan 2014 18:25:09 -0700, Steve from Colorado
<Steve_de_Colorado@cocks.net> wrote:

>On 1/14/2014 5:30 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Report: IRS Harasses Sarah Palin�s Father
>>
>> Bryan Preston
>> January 13, 2014 - 10:35 am
>>
>> Sarah Palin�s brother, Chuck Heath Jr., posted this note on Facebook
>> on January 11:
>>
>> Coincidence? You decide.
>>
>> My father, who worked multiple jobs and faithfully and honestly
>> paid his taxes for fifty years, had never heard a word from the IRS.
>> In 2008, his daughter was tapped to run for vice president of the
>> United States. Since that time, he has been, in his words �horribly
>> harassed� six times by the agency. They�ve tried to dig up something
>> on him but he�s always operated above board.
>>
>> Government and politics are ugly. Kudos to the few that are trying
>> to clean it up.
>>
>> To date, Heath�s comments have not generated any mainstream media
>> attention at all. The same media that generated story after story from
>> the now discredited claim by waitress Dayna Morales, which was also
>> posted on Facebook, that a family mistreated her because she is gay,
>> are completely ignoring Heath�s claim that the father of a former
>> Republican vice presidential nominee is being harassed by the federal
>> government because of the family�s politics. The same media that can�t
>> get enough of stories about �scandal-plagued� Chris Christie, are
>> ignoring this.
>> __
>> "Anyone who thinks Obama is doing a good job
>> is either stupid or a perpetual societal leech"
>>
>
>Did the IRS harass Obama's illegal alien uncle and aunt too?

Nope

Odd that eh wot?

In fact..they got papers allowing them to stay.


__
"Anyone who thinks Obama is doing a good job
is either stupid or a perpetual societal leech"

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ping Richard!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1b38c3b536a8c4aa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 4:35 am
From: Gunner Asch



http://sarasota.craigslist.org/boa/4289609144.html

Catalina Capri 22 Sailboat - $3600 (Sarasota Sailing Squadron)
� craigslist - Map data � OpenStreetMap
1717 Ken Thompson Pkwy
Catalina Capri 22
Dry Sailed from the Sarasota Sailing Squadron
8 Sails including:
1 Cruising Main Sail
1 Racing Main Sail
2 #1 Jibs (See Through and Dacron)
1 #2 Jib (Cut down J24)
1 #3 Jib
2 Spinnakers
Bridle for hoisting in to water
No water in wood in fiberglass
Standard (not tall) Rigging
Spinnaker Pole
Whisker Pole
Replace winches with 2 speed winches
Replaced traveler with special one
No leaks
Reinforced chainplates
Trailer
4 HP engine
SE Regatta Champion 3 times (only been beat 1 time)

1717 Ken Thompson Pkwy (google map) (yahoo map)

Location: Sarasota Sailing Squadron
do NOT contact me with unsolicited services or offers
__
"Anyone who thinks Obama is doing a good job
is either stupid or a perpetual societal leech"

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==============================================================================
TOPIC: News Item! Another American Gun Owner Stopped Dead In His Tracks Before
He Does More Harm!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/661fc69b20652718?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 5:33 am
From: Bomber Harris


It looks like in the war on Guns, shooting gun owners never comes too
late. If only they could have shot this gun owner before he went
postal!



A mass shooter forgot the important functional rule for
successful mass murderers: only attack in disarmed victim
zones, sometimes called "gun free zones". From KGW.com:

The shooter hit three people, prompting a person in
the bar to return fire, hitting and critically injuring
the suspect.

"The shooter came in and just started shooting
without any kind of warning," victim Gonzalo Zamora-
Hernandeza told KGW Monday.

Brian Rizzo, a 26-year-old security guard from the
club, was hit by the shooter at the front door and was
still in critical condition with life-threatening
injuries Monday.

Fortunately, Oregon is does not prohibit citizens from
legally being armed in places that serve alcohol. . . .

Continues at:

http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2014/01/ormass-shooting-stoped-by-armed-citizen.html







==============================================================================
TOPIC: Urkle Obama Says "No Minimum Wage For White Boys In The South, But My
NSA Will Keep An Eye On U!!"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c2c693050d652c17?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 5:49 am
From: Carl


He's had a camera in Rick Perry's bedroom for years, and so far all he
sees are these fat old white Texan men come and go.

Most of the Teaparty Loyal say that it just aint right when a white
southern man can't make love to his own, and a black man is watching.

Meanwhile in Virginia, Ken Cuccinelli says "I want all the tapes so I
can lay charges in case there are blow jobs!"

He spends all night drinking Blatz beer and watching those damn videos.
His lover Jethro is angry, and don't you get me started about his
wife.

Anyway, we should all fear him because he's the Attorney General of a
gun infested backwoods shit hole, and a Dago pervert to boot.

I just want to know why the Chinks allowed those WOPS to steal the
spaghetti? Only Marco Polo knows.






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