Re: [jQuery] Re: How to avoid page refresh with jquery in typo3 ?

Hi Michel,

I appreciate your reply.
While I was writing my answer (and do some work) I saw the emails flying by but was not catching up with them.

After reading some them I was tempted to reply:

"Chris, mind your manners..."

Have fun,

Gerrit

On 11/06/2009 02:49 PM, Michel Belleville wrote:

Hey Gerrit,

I get what you're saying, and I basically agree with you that you don't need to be an engineer to do a bit of hacking (I merely pointed to documentation that would have taken him two hours top investigating, I hardly call that becoming an engineer even in a field as small as jQuery), and that asking the question right is important. I also agree that someone asking you a question should respect you, if not out of regards to your knowledge and skills, at the very least because you've spend time to actually read and write down an answer to his question, even though you feel patronized by the answer (and who wouldn't feel patronized when he gets and answer that basically says : here's what you should do).

That's not what my answer is about.

I get patronized my fait share in my job, and sometimes I feel bad about it, especially when the patronizer is right, and that's because it almost invariably happens when I didn't do the job in the first place. So in that case, the first thing I do is ask myself "what if I did what the guy tells me ?". Typically I then do that, and usually it just works, and I feel better afterwards. What I try to never do when I feel patronized is insult the person that just made me feel that way, for two reasons. First because sometimes the patronizer is right, and I'll act like a fool or a hypocrite trying to argue the point beyond being proven wrong. Second because whining won't help me anyway.

So Chris, when you ask the question wrong to the wrong people, at least don't get surprised to be patronized, especially since if your real desire is to have all the "nitty gritty" put out of the way by someone else. If you want to be allowed to whine when things don't work, either whine to yourself or pay someone to be whined on (that usually works well in the software industry provided you've got money to spare).

Then again Gerrit, I didn't feel insulted by you, you've been quite decent and tactful and I respect you for that, plus I concur that using a plugin that does just what you need is fine, provided said plugin exists.

I also guess that this has gotten into something nasty, and neither was that my intention (though I'm not afraid to get into nasty territory once in a while when I cross answers displaying the attitude Chris gratified us with earlier ; when asses needs to be kicked don't mind me if I get my boots on), but you're not to blame in any way here.

Michel Belleville

2009/11/6 Gerrit Kuilder <gerrit.undefined@gmail.com>

Hi Michel,

In another email I already said that asking the right question will make it easier to get the right question.

So if Chris had asked for the right screwdriver to replace a window the answer might have been different, it would have shown that Chris knew enough about engineering that he needed a screwdriver. He just wanted to be pointed to the right one by the engineers, because sometimes all you need is to replace a window and you don't need to know how to build a whole house. He (and I) just need another window to fit with the interior where he wants (or needs) to spend his precious time on.

I have been using jquery plugins because I need to get a job done, I need to spend my time on that job.

I have been doing a fair bit of programming in various languages and have been using 'plugins' (Pm's, classes, jquery plugins)  to avoid spending/wasting time on some nitty gritty details. I need to spend/waste time on other nitty gritty details and the sooner I get to the required end result the better.

That means I have been using/abusing other people's knowledge and skills, so I have time to acquire knowledge and skills that can be used/abused by other people.

Please don't see this as disrespect for you or your knowledge and skills. 
I actually respect the K and S, using a plugin makes sure that I get the best and right tools and don't use something full of my own errors.
I came to this mailinglist because of a problem I have with a plugin (or 2), and the developer(s) ask on their websites to post questions here.

I also think this gets into something nasty, this was not my intention at all. If I offended you it was unintentionally and in that case I apologize.

Regards,

Gerrit

On 11/06/2009 12:21 PM, Michel Belleville wrote:

2009/11/6 Gerrit Kuilder <gerrit.undefined@gmail.com>

Hi Chris,

I understand your frustration, it is like asking how to replace a window and being told to become an engineer first.

You don't need to become an engineer before you're changing a window, but if you don't know how to use a screwdriver and where to get a spare window I guess you should start there anyway, it won't take as much time as to get an engineer's degree I assure you. It may very well be frustrating to start with the little wheels on a little country road before you're trying to bike your way through a car crowded city on rush hour, but still my advice is to start with the little wheels and the little country road.
 

I also am a mere consumer of jquery and have been frustrated by finding the right stuff, trying to get it to work and finding out later that the results are not what I was looking for.
Especially the lack of a very basic sample that shows the code working can be a nightmare, you can waste hours.

Consider this : how better is it to "waste" (I'd rather write "spend") a few hours learning the basics then work your way up to the solutions more easily and confidently because you at least know what it's about, rather than "spend" (and here I really mean "waste") the same amount of hours googling over-specific wild goose chases or banging your head on your keyboard repeatedly because what you've found and tried does not in fact do anything close to what you wanted in the first place ?

I know I'd rather "waste" my time doing the tutorials, but it's up to you. And there's no lack of very basic sample, you're just not looking for a very basic sample here, you're looking for a readymade solution. When you're not finding a readymade solution, you can either develop your own (which requires knowing the tools if not the trade) or buy someone's time to work it up for you, or let it go and do something else entirely until someone has had the same problem and developped a solution for you, but it may be some time before that happens.

Off my soapbox onto your issue:
Taconite http://jquery.malsup.com/taconite/ might do what you want to do: reloading/replacing parts of a page without the need to load the whole page, this comes with good examples and documentation.  

One thing you have to be aware off is that the data passed back to the page has to be XML/XHTML, opening the link in a new window in firefox is a good way to check if this is the case, and you should use utf8 , so no &nbsp; but the utf version of it (I hope you don't mind one more Google for that ;-) )

This might be an interesting solution to some problems, though it'll require learning taconite's syntax as well as basic jQuery to get the hooks on the app. So getting started with jQuery will still be a good idea.

 

Michel Belleville