twitter: comp.lang.c - 25 new messages in 5 topics

comp.lang.c
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c?hl=en

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Today's topics:

* Warning to newbies - 18 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/9597fd702985dff4?hl=en
* Macro to manipulate chars inside string - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/9d5125687dd742c0?hl=en
* Wholesale Sports Shoes Clear Air Force One AAA++quality(www.cnnshoe.com) - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/cc797fef1103856b?hl=en
* web sites for sale $200 only each one - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/c6335b7ffc2a4826?hl=en
* ❤～❤～❤ Cheap wholesale BBC Coat, ED Hardy Coat, Bape Coat ect at www.rijing-
trade.com <Paypal Payment> - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/955b4a30c58592cb?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Warning to newbies
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/9597fd702985dff4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 8:20 am
From: spinoza1111

On Feb 3, 7:27 pm, Tim Streater <timstrea...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> On 03/02/2010 02:33,spinoza1111wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 3, 12:16 am, Tim Streater<timstrea...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> >> On 02/02/2010 11:15,spinoza1111wrote:
> >> [snip]
>
> >>> A sensible "C standard" would have in fact defined a new C free of
> >>> these problems:
>
> >> ...
>
> >>> reaching the end of a non-void function without finding a return
> >>> statement, when the return value is used
> >>> But "reaching the end of a non-void function" and falling off the end
> >>> of the world is flat-earth thinking, the unnecessary preservation of
> >>> the mistakes of the past and the limitations of old machines. You
> >>> should have FORCED vendors to hire compiler developers to FIX this
> >>> problem by simply adding a machine language return statement behind
> >>> ALL such functions as a guard, or behind functions where the return is
> >>> missing. This isn't rocket science.
>
> >> You've missed the point here, Baldrick. It's not that the function won't
> >> return, but that because execution reaches the end of the function
> >> without encountering a "return x" statement, the value that the function
> >> returns is undefined. This is obviously a problem if the caller expects
> >> to use the returned value.
>
> >> And "undefined" simply means that the value seen by the caller will be
> >> implementation-defined and therefore could be anything. I add this as
> >> you don't appear to understand this simple point.
>
> > To say it's "implementation defined" and to claim this is a standard
> > is bullshit. If it's "implementation defined" then it's not a
> > standard.
>
> Well done for sidestepping the major flaw that I pointed out, and
> focussing on the second point.
>
> > "International standard for dildoes"! "Anything you like including
> > exploding ones!"
>
> > That is: standardization is for the safety and convenience of the
> > consumer/user, not for compiler vendors. Underwriter's Laboratories
> > certifies electrical products as safe, it does NOT say that "the
> > result is undefined", ...
>
> Safe when used as directed. UL will doubtless specify the voltage range,
> temperature range, humidity, and so on. To go outside these limits is
> potentially *unsafe* and what actually happens is undefined. Get the
> point now?

No. Again, you need to read "Fly by Wire: The Geese, the Glide and the
Miracle on the Hudson" by William Langewiesche. The A320 Airbus does
not in normal operation allow the pilot to place the airplane outside
of parameters for which the airplane is known to fly safely.

Flying a jet with paying passengers (and even a Federal Express cargo
flight, according to a Federal pilot I've spoken to) is today like
programming in a safe form of Cobol (Cobol wasn't safe in modern
terms, although it was safer than Fortran and PL/I). This is in my
view as it should be.

Sure, you can take a laptop in the bathtub and kill your ass. And
Langewiesche describes a test/demo pilot who survived an A320 crash in
an airshow that killed children and persists in blaming the A320 who
did manage to overcome fly-by-wire (in a manner not permitted in
regular flight). Also, there is the mystery of an Air France A330
which crashed in June of last year to be resolved: Langewiesche, a
believer in fly by wire, has the honesty to concede that this MAY have
been a failure of fly by wire.

[Langewiesche has a lot of integrity and tells the truth at all costs:
he was almost beat up by NYC firemen when he reported that some of
them looted shops on 9-11.]

BUT: whilst underwriter's labs cannot prevent someone from sticking a
knife into a toaster that's plugged in an on, they can assure six-
sigma safety.

The programmer break room argument is that because safety is six sigma
(or in the case of Java or C Sharp, just much higher than C), and
because six sigma is close to but not equal to 100% safety there's no
reason to change.

This is macho bullshit, the purpose being avoiding a deskilling and
deprofessionalism which is inevitable. You see, IF fly by wire was the
cause of the Air France crash of 2009, or if drive by wire caused the
accelerator pedal jam on the Toyota, this could well mean that the
avionics or car software was written in C, and one of C's numerous
issues caused the problems.
>
> --
> Tim
>
> "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines
> imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"
>
> Bill of Rights 1689

== 2 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 8:27 am
From: spinoza1111

On Feb 3, 8:17 pm, "Chris M. Thomasson" <n...@spam.invalid> wrote:
> "spinoza1111" <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:20199eab-fa3a-435f-ab06-c3789b12d59b@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 2, 6:44 pm, "James" <n...@spam.invalid> wrote:
> [...]
>
>
>
>
>
> > > BTW, I personally think that you were able to "convert" one other
> > > "clever"
> > > person that writes to this "humble" little list from time to time. That
> > > would be 'Chris M. Thomason' based on the following thread:
>
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/browse_frm/thread/6b84114d...
>
> > > Please Nilges, teach me how you managed to get an "apparent" asshole
> > > like
> > > Chris T to treat you with respect!? I read that thread, and he seemed
> > > fairly
> > > disrespectful to you at __first__? Then, he, well, changed?????
> > I remember that exchange. I wasn't as good a poet back then, but we
> > did successfully work together. This is what this newsgroup is for.
> > Unfortunately, such outcomes are rare. And that discussion was spammed
> > by the regs, who were enraged that Chris and I were actually working
> > together and solving a problem.
> > The problem was one of computer science, but Kiki, filled with
> > resentment if not hate, kept whining that it was off topic because C
> > Sharp could handle the problem with ease.
>
> Yes, C# can indeed handle the problem. However, it's not exactly all that
> "efficient" because it needs to do a full blown copy-on-write and use
> garbage collection to ensure that everything works as expected. In other
> words, I cannot operate on data-structures directly like I can using
> assembly language. FWIW, this is exactly how Sun implemented
> `AtomicStampedReference'.
>
> C# and Java basically have to do something like the following pseudo-code:
> ___________________________________________________________________
> bool CASX(value current,
> value comparand,
> value exchange)
> {
> value new_exchange = new value(exchange); // copy
>
> for (;;)
> {
> value ref_current = current;
>
> if (! COMPARE(ref_current, comparand)) return false;
>
> if (CAS(current, ref_current, new_exchange)) return true;
> }}
>
> ___________________________________________________________________
>
> This logic will most definitely work, but unfortunately a high amount of
> "pressure" will be bearing down on the memory allocator and garbage
> collector if I frequently execute it. This is why I was so disappointed to
> find out that Sun implemented `AtomicStampedReference' this way.
>
> I cannot think of any other technique to implement DWCAS in 100% pure C#
> without resorting to COW. I thought of a possible optimization which
> involved reusing allocated data-structures, but sadly this won't work due to
> a fairly nasty race-condition called the ABA problem:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABA_problem
>
> Well, I can solve all of this by resorting to using unsafe code in C#. But
> that would make the C# code highly non-portable because I would have to
> create an assembly language implementation of DWCAS for every architecture I
> want to port to. I expect this for a language like C, but NOT for C#!!!
>
> ;^(...
>
> [...]

Can't you just let Moore's Law handle "efficiency"?

Sure, not everything can be interpreted since this would multiply all
times by a constant or even a variable number of times because when
things are interpreted, something happens for each instruction. But as
I have shown, C sharp is compiled at the last minute and not
interpreted.

In my view, garbage collection is such a great thing that we shouldn't
be sad that it happens.

However, I have NEVER programmed OSen or embedded systems for real
money, although I've written a number of compilers. I understand that
absolute performance goals may apply. I do object to treating
performance speed as an unalloyed good when the customer doesn't ask
for it.

== 3 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 8:28 am
From: spinoza1111

On Feb 3, 9:26 pm, santosh <santosh....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Nick Keighley wrote:
> > On 3 Feb, 04:53, Seebs <usenet-nos...@seebs.net> wrote:
>
> > > This stuff makes me wonder sometimes if he's a Poe.
>
> > ok you got me.
>
> > Perl Object Environment, Power Over Ethernet or Problem of Evil?
>
> > It can't be Post Once Exactly, Product of Experts or Purity of
> > Essence.
>
> > And I like Propagation of Error and Greek Cycling Federation (it makes
> > more sense in greek presumably) as outliers.
>
> I'm guessing that it's to do with Edgar Allen Poe.

...and note that the break room kiddies start babbling senselessly
when a real discussion with real conclusions (James', and Chris')
starts, because they're bored. And yet I'm the troll? What ev er.

== 4 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 8:27 am
From: Tim Streater

On 03/02/2010 16:20, spinoza1111 wrote:
> On Feb 3, 7:27 pm, Tim Streater<timstrea...@waitrose.com> wrote:
>> On 03/02/2010 02:33,spinoza1111wrote:

>> Safe when used as directed. UL will doubtless specify the voltage range,
>> temperature range, humidity, and so on. To go outside these limits is
>> potentially *unsafe* and what actually happens is undefined. Get the
>> point now?
>
> No. Again, you need to read "Fly by Wire: The Geese, the Glide and the
> Miracle on the Hudson" by William Langewiesche.

No, I don't need to read that, oh clueless one.

[snip most, no all, of Baldrick's irrelevant burblings]

--
Tim

"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines
imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"

Bill of Rights 1689

== 5 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 8:34 am
From: spinoza1111

On Feb 3, 10:50 am, Richard Heathfield <r...@see.sig.invalid> wrote:
> In <e6146716-045f-43ea-978e-bc78d53c7...@b9g2000pri.googlegroups.com>,
>
> spinoza1111wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > To say it's "implementation defined" and to claim this is a standard
> > is bullshit.
>
> No, it's reality. The C Standard leaves quite a number of decisions up
> to the implementation. For exasmple, the values of the members of the
> execution character set are implementation-defined. This fact, which
> turns out not to matter to well-written code, reflects the reality
> that there isn't a single universally-agreed best choice. The ISO C
> Committee needs to ensure, and does ensure, that they don't
> over-legislate and, in so doing, render C unimplementable on some

Great. Like we need a language that's "write once, bomb everywhere"?

You see, my dear boy, to NOT legislate IS to legislate in too many
cases.

> platforms. Your inability to understand this point does not
> constitute an argument against it.
>
> <snip>
>
> --
> Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
> Email: -http://www. +rjh@
> "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
> Sig line vacant - apply within

== 6 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 8:38 am
From: "Chris M. Thomasson"

"spinoza1111" <spinoza1111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d43e5d11-b684-4dd7-ad88-b90243c41f63@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com...

[...]

> The problem being that the software in these planes (and in
> automobiles such as the Toyota) can't be written in a language like C
> which does allow the programmer to code outside of sensible boundaries
> for shits, giggles and "efficiency". Programmers need to be LESS
> skilled and consider themselves clerks, and they need, in my view, to
> be forced, especially in mission-critical systems, to be glorified
> clerks, by requiring that they code in Java or C#, not C.

What about C++ Edward?

http://www2.research.att.com/~bs/JSF-AV-rules.pdf

IMO, this is definitely an area that simply cannot tolerate any type of bug
whatsoever. I can see it know:

Pilot: For some reason the bomb bay doors just opened and the plane quickly
became much lighter...

HOLY SHI%!!!!

:^o

== 7 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 8:53 am
From: spinoza1111

On Feb 3, 10:38 am, spinoza1111 <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 12:39 am, Colonel Harlan Sanders <Har...@kfc.com> wrote:
> > Feel free to rebut me in verse, that surely helps your credibility.

OK. Let's start with some original Limericks, written this evening by
me for you, dear heart.

There is a "Colonel" named Sanders
Who said, das ist eine Anders
He's so unlike a normal jerk
That to bring him down shall be my work
So Sprache that phony Colonel named Sanders.

There is a rube named Harlan
Who said to his ex-wife, Darlin',
The child support check is gonna be late
I lost my job haulin' freight,
That clueless rube named Harlan.

There is a guy, whose rank is Colonel
On his head he wears a funnel:
He is prone to delusions
Fits, starts, brown studies and confusions,
That pathetic fool whose rank is Colonel.

Perhaps you'd like a Clerihew?

Harlan Sanders
Don't like grandstanders,
Trolls and people who are
Smarter than he, by far.

Hows about some heroic couplets?

And Lo, a missive from the Colonel of some Regiment
Full of what he supposes is fine and normal Sentiment,
Cautionubf all who listen to take condign Heed
Not to listen to Spinoza, he says there is no Need.
This is a man who prizes Silence, and thinks the silent to be strong
Words irritate him and any Text that is to him overlong.
He won't be taxed, by Cracky, by gosh, Tarnation and by Gum
He'll muster up a Jacquerie and from the woodshed, he'll get his gun
A Blunder Buss or Brownish Bess from the French and Indian wars
Which he spent drilling on the Commons to the taunts and hoots of
Whores.
He'll march his Troop of addled Lads to the Castle of ill Fame
He'll have it out for once and all, to Spinoza he'll bring shame!
But when he mocks and when he rants 'tis to him that Fortune is most
cruel:
For his repeated postings are clearly the Phillipics of the Phool!

== 8 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:00 am
From: spinoza1111

On Feb 3, 10:19 pm, Richard Heathfield <r...@see.sig.invalid> wrote:
> spinoza1111wrote:
> > On Feb 3, 10:53 am, rich...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) wrote:
> >> In article <35550a06-2346-4236-a197-fbd1eebc6...@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >>spinoza1111<spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> that you're the one who needs to look at his problems, including the
> >>> deviant behavior in which you're engaging: it appears to me that you
> >>> are not even technically qualified to post here, and instead you
> >>> cruise networks (dressed in a bra, panties and Nazi hat?)
> >> If anyone was in any doubt about you, this should clear it up.
> >> I quote you here so that you cannot remove your disgusting
> >> statements from the public record.
>
> > What's disgusting is what happens to people who take the risk of
> > posting interesting and creative material about C and related matters,
> > only to find themselves the target of abuse.
>
> If you are under the impression that you are posting interesting and
> creative material about C, you are mistaken. If you don't enjoy abusing
> people, you can simply stop doing it.

You're the abuser, Richard. You talk about people as if they were
objects, speaking insultingly of them to third parties and
consistently enabling people like "Colonel Harlan Sanders" who,
without any interest in the topic of the newsgroup, take your cue to
start in on people, even as Adolf Hitler (yeah baby) used Rohm and the
Sturmbateilung Arbeiter to kick the shit out of people in the back of
the beer hall while he talked of Kultur out front.

You also seek to censor interesting discussions when you cannot
dominate them with what little you've learned working as a short-term
contract programmer by means of Topic Fascism, uttering absurdities
such as "comp.programming is not about programmers". You seek to
exercise thought-control on others by deliberately their professional
credibility in a public medium where potential employers may make
judgements on people based on your lies.

WE FIGHT BACK.

And you can't stand it.
>
> <snip>
>
> --
> Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
> Email: -http://www. +rjh@
> "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
> Sig line vacant - apply within

== 9 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:02 am
From: spinoza1111

On Feb 3, 11:31 pm, "Chris M. Thomasson" <n...@spam.invalid> wrote:
> "Chris M. Thomasson" <n...@spam.invalid> wrote in messagenews:VVdan.14174$4p5.7299@newsfe22.iad...> "spinoza1111" <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:20199eab-fa3a-435f-ab06-c3789b12d59b@x10g2000prk.googlegroups.com...
>
> [...]
>
> > This logic will most definitely work, but unfortunately a high amount of
> > "pressure" will be bearing down on the memory allocator and garbage
> > collector if I frequently execute it. This is why I was so disappointed to
> > find out that Sun implemented `AtomicStampedReference' this way.
>
> > I cannot think of any other technique to implement DWCAS in 100% pure C#
> > without resorting to COW. I thought of a possible optimization which
> > involved reusing allocated data-structures, but sadly this won't work due
> > to a fairly nasty race-condition called the ABA problem:
>
> WOW! I must be a STUPID ASS RETARD or something!!
>
> A fairly nice portable solution was staring me right in the damn face
> Spinoza. I can simply implement one of my new inventions, a wait-free
> word-based proxy garbage collector algorithm, in C#:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.programming.threads/browse_frm/th...
>
> This would completely solve ABA, and take a shi%load of pressure off the C#
> garbage collector. This would even be useful in Java and it would
> definitely, beyond a reasonable doubt, beat the living crap out of a
> solution based on Sun's implementation of the `AtomicStampedReference'. The
> solution would be in 100% pure C#, and therefore retain all of the benefits
> of managed code. The funny/odd thing is that I am using a "garbage
> collector" to help out a garbage collector; very interesting...
>
> Now, I still will not be able to "instantly" reuse objects, however, the
> fact that I can take a lot of pressure off the GC is very attractive.

Great! But again, your work is in part over my head. I am glad to have
assisted you even if I have done so inadvertently as it were it a fit
of absent mindedness.
>
> ;^)
>
> [...]

== 10 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:04 am
From: spinoza1111

On Feb 4, 12:27 am, Tim Streater <timstrea...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> On 03/02/2010 16:20,spinoza1111wrote:
>
> > On Feb 3, 7:27 pm, Tim Streater<timstrea...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> >> On 03/02/2010 02:33,spinoza1111wrote:
> >> Safe when used as directed. UL will doubtless specify the voltage range,
> >> temperature range, humidity, and so on. To go outside these limits is
> >> potentially *unsafe* and what actually happens is undefined. Get the
> >> point now?
>
> > No. Again, you need to read "Fly by Wire: The Geese, the Glide and the
> > Miracle on the Hudson" by William Langewiesche.
>
> No, I don't need to read that, oh clueless one.
>
> [snip most, no all, of Baldrick's irrelevant burblings]

The Break Room Kiddies strike again even as the light of truth breaks
slowly in here with great posts by Thomasson and James. The
Troglodytes babble in the darkness. Their Dark Lord, Heathfield,
screeches curses.

No, I guess you don't need to read jack fucking shit, pal, you have
all the clues you need, such as a detailed knowledge of TV.
>
> --
> Tim
>
> "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines
> imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"
>
> Bill of Rights 1689

== 11 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:06 am
From: Richard Heathfield

spinoza1111 wrote:

> What's the point of preserving a "feature" such as "a missing return
> statement will cause an undefined situation in the caller"?

Ah, some sense. For once, I can agree with you. It's silly. I see no
point in enforcing a return statement in a function with void return
type, but in functions that are declared as returning a value, surely it
isn't asking too much of the programmer to require a value to be
returned (that is, for the lack of a return statement to be a constraint
violation).

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line vacant - apply within

== 12 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:11 am
From: spinoza1111

On Feb 4, 12:38 am, "Chris M. Thomasson" <n...@spam.invalid> wrote:
> "spinoza1111" <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d43e5d11-b684-4dd7-ad88-b90243c41f63@z10g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> [...]
>
> > The problem being that the software in these planes (and in
> > automobiles such as the Toyota) can't be written in a language like C
> > which does allow the programmer to code outside of sensible boundaries
> > for shits, giggles and "efficiency". Programmers need to be LESS
> > skilled and consider themselves clerks, and they need, in my view, to
> > be forced, especially in mission-critical systems, to be glorified
> > clerks, by requiring that they code in Java or C#, not C.
>
> What about C++ Edward?
>
> http://www2.research.att.com/~bs/JSF-AV-rules.pdf
>
> IMO, this is definitely an area that simply cannot tolerate any type of bug
> whatsoever. I can see it know:

I'd say military avionics is more bug-tolerant than civilian, wouldn't
you? Don't get me started on jet fighters...and how in the absence of
the conflict for which they were designed (an all-out conventional war
between the USSR and USA) they are used on populations of the Third
World that consist mostly of children owing to simple demographics.
For example, Israel used fighters EXCLUSIVELY for attacks on civilians
during last year's three week war on Gaza.

My civilian understanding is that the pilot of a jet fighter can in
most extreme situations bail out explosively and float gently to earth
in a parachute. His ass might hurt for a couple of days.

But they don't give parachutes to passengers of civilian jets.

I conclude that the safety requirements for civilian aviation are
higher. Unfortunately, Langewiesche doesn't specify what programming
language was used for the A320's fly by wire software. I really,
really hope it's something like Ada or Eiffel and not C++.
>
> Pilot: For some reason the bomb bay doors just opened and the plane quickly
> became much lighter...
>
> HOLY SHI%!!!!
>
> :^o

== 13 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:12 am
From: spinoza1111

On Feb 4, 12:53 am, spinoza1111 <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 3, 10:38 am,spinoza1111<spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 3, 12:39 am, Colonel Harlan Sanders <Har...@kfc.com> wrote:
> > > Feel free to rebut me in verse, that surely helps your credibility.
>
> OK. Let's start with some original Limericks, written this evening by
> me for you, dear heart.
>
> There is a "Colonel" named Sanders
> Who said, das ist eine Anders
> He's so unlike a normal jerk
> That to bring him down shall be my work
> So Sprache that phony Colonel named Sanders.
>
> There is a rube named Harlan
> Who said to his ex-wife, Darlin',
> The child support check is gonna be late
> I lost my job haulin' freight,
> That clueless rube named Harlan.
>
> There is a guy, whose rank is Colonel
> On his head he wears a funnel:
> He is prone to delusions
> Fits, starts, brown studies and confusions,
> That pathetic fool whose rank is Colonel.
>
> Perhaps you'd like a Clerihew?
>
> Harlan Sanders
> Don't like grandstanders,
> Trolls and people who are
> Smarter than he, by far.
>
> Hows about some heroic couplets?
>
> And Lo, a missive from the Colonel of some Regiment
> Full of what he supposes is fine and normal Sentiment,
> Cautionubf all who listen to take condign Heed
> Not to listen to Spinoza, he says there is no Need.
> This is a man who prizes Silence, and thinks the silent to be strong
> Words irritate him and any Text that is to him overlong.
> He won't be taxed, by Cracky, by gosh, Tarnation and by Gum
> He'll muster up a Jacquerie and from the woodshed, he'll get his gun
> A Blunder Buss or Brownish Bess from the French and Indian wars
> Which he spent drilling on the Commons to the taunts and hoots of
> Whores.
> He'll march his Troop of addled Lads to the Castle of ill Fame
> He'll have it out for once and all, to Spinoza he'll bring shame!
> But when he mocks and when he rants 'tis to him that Fortune is most
> cruel:
> For his repeated postings are clearly the Phillipics of the Phool!

That should be:

And Lo, a missive from the Colonel of some Regiment
Full of what he supposes is fine and normal Sentiment,
Cautioning all who listen to take condign Heed
[Corrected]
Not to listen to Spinoza, he says there is no Need.
This is a man who prizes Silence, and thinks the silent to be strong
Words irritate him and any Text that is to him overlong.
He won't be taxed, by Cracky, by gosh, Tarnation and by Gum
He'll muster up a Jacquerie and from the woodshed, he'll get his gun
A Blunder Buss or Brownish Bess from the French and Indian wars
Which he spent drilling on the Commons to the taunts and hoots of
Whores.
He'll march his Troop of addled Lads to the Castle of ill Fame
He'll have it out for once and all, to Spinoza he'll bring shame!
But when he mocks and when he rants 'tis to him that Fortune is most
cruel:
For his repeated postings are clearly the Phillipics of the Phool!

== 14 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:19 am
From: Colonel Harlan Sanders

On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:16:33 -0800 (PST), spinoza1111
<spinoza1111@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Feb 3, 10:53 am, rich...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) wrote:
>> In article <35550a06-2346-4236-a197-fbd1eebc6...@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> spinoza1111 <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> >that you're the one who needs to look at his problems, including the
>> >deviant behavior in which you're engaging: it appears to me that you
>> >are not even technically qualified to post here, and instead you
>> >cruise networks (dressed in a bra, panties and Nazi hat?)
>>
>> If anyone was in any doubt about you, this should clear it up.
>> I quote you here so that you cannot remove your disgusting
>> statements from the public record.
>
>What's disgusting is what happens to people who take the risk of
>posting interesting and creative material about C and related matters,
>only to find themselves the target of abuse.

True, you certainly have targetted Seebs and Heathfield for abuse.

>This character Harlan, in particular, has contributed nothing to this
>discussion except abuse in which he takes his cue from the mob.

Mob? I thought I was a transvestite loner in a basement -- when did I
become part of a mob?

>He seeks to expose others and to ascribe to them the weakness,
>impotence and fear he feels in a ridiculous zero-sum exchange in
>which that gives him masturbatory relief.

Was that more of your versification? I see a William S Burroughs
influence. Random phrases tacked together that make no sense, yet
manage to give an impression of malice.

Anyway, have you reported to Schildt on the progress of your campaign
to improve his image in c.l.c? He must be happy with your achievements
here. Fire up that ouija board you use to talk to him and give him an
update.

== 15 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:27 am
From: spinoza1111

On Feb 4, 1:06 am, Richard Heathfield <r...@see.sig.invalid> wrote:
> spinoza1111wrote:
>
> <nonsense snipped>
>
> > What's the point of preserving a "feature" such as "a missing return
> > statement will cause an undefined situation in the caller"?
>
> Ah, some sense. For once, I can agree with you. It's silly. I see no
> point in enforcing a return statement in a function with void return
> type, but in functions that are declared as returning a value, surely it
> isn't asking too much of the programmer to require a value to be
> returned (that is, for the lack of a return statement to be a constraint
> violation).

So, you admit that the compiler can detect it. Good. Now the compiler
can fix it by generating an extra machine instruction to return a
zero.

However, having started at Bell-Northern Research in Dec 1981 by being
asked to modify their internal compiler, I am aware that this is a
risk. Ottawa in a cost-saving and Wall Street pleasing fit had
disbanded the compiler group in Canada, and it took several months for
budget to be approved to make a simple change.

If the C standards group had legislated that "henceforth, missing
return shall be the return of zero", vendors would have had a fit,
because in many cases they'd have disbanded the original C compiler
group. The bean counters controlled the standards writers and the
result is a useless POS of a standard. IMO.

It's not a question of being "good enough" to remember to return
something, any more than airline passengers don't want to have to
worry that their pilot has the ability of Chesley Sullenberger, who
landed the Airbus in the Hudson. The fact is, in aviation, China
Airlines is advertising for pilot TRAINEES without requiring either
college or flight school in the South China Morning Post because its
new Airbuses don't require ace pilots anymore, and for the same
reason, many programmers in the USA don't program any more: they
attend meetings.

If the vendors actively prevented the C standards people from creating
a safer C, then the vendors will be at fault if C is used in a mission-
critical environment, since the executives of the company writing the
mission-critical software may very well have been reassured that the C
used was "standard", and they will believe that this means it's "safe
to use".

But as you yourself have shown us, a C program can be "standard" and
full of bugs. The Standards don't mandate error reports in many
undefined situations: they simply say "gee, that's undefined, pal,
isn't that a shame", in essence.

This is normalized deviance.
>
> <nonsense snipped>
>
> --
> Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
> Email: -http://www. +rjh@
> "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
> Sig line vacant - apply within

== 16 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:28 am
From: Richard Heathfield

spinoza1111 wrote:
> On Feb 3, 10:19 pm, Richard Heathfield <r...@see.sig.invalid> wrote:
>> spinoza1111wrote:
<snip>

>>> What's disgusting is what happens to people who take the risk of
>>> posting interesting and creative material about C and related matters,
>>> only to find themselves the target of abuse.
>> If you are under the impression that you are posting interesting and
>> creative material about C, you are mistaken. If you don't enjoy abusing
>> people, you can simply stop doing it.
>
> You're the abuser, Richard.

Clearly you and I are not ever going to agree about this. I invite
people to read a selection of, say, 10-20 articles you've posted to this
group, chosen entirely at random; to read the same number of articles
I've posted to this group, also chosen at random; and then to make their
own minds up. I have no doubts whatsoever about the outcome. I can even
take a fair guess at which four or five subscribers to this group would
manage to get the answer wrong.

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line vacant - apply within

== 17 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:31 am
From: Richard Heathfield

spinoza1111 wrote:
> On Feb 4, 1:06 am, Richard Heathfield <r...@see.sig.invalid> wrote:
>> spinoza1111wrote:
>>
>> <nonsense snipped>
>>
>>> What's the point of preserving a "feature" such as "a missing return
>>> statement will cause an undefined situation in the caller"?
>> Ah, some sense. For once, I can agree with you. It's silly. I see no
>> point in enforcing a return statement in a function with void return
>> type, but in functions that are declared as returning a value, surely it
>> isn't asking too much of the programmer to require a value to be
>> returned (that is, for the lack of a return statement to be a constraint
>> violation).
>
> So, you admit that the compiler can detect it.

That's hardly in dispute, is it? Some compilers *do* detect it.

> Good. Now the compiler
> can fix it by generating an extra machine instruction to return a
> zero.

Better - let the programmer fix it by changing the return type to void,
or by adding a return statement.

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line vacant - apply within

== 18 of 18 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:35 am
From: spinoza1111

On Feb 4, 1:19 am, Colonel Harlan Sanders <Har...@kfc.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 06:16:33 -0800 (PST),spinoza1111
>
>
>
>
>
> <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >On Feb 3, 10:53 am, rich...@cogsci.ed.ac.uk (Richard Tobin) wrote:
> >> In article <35550a06-2346-4236-a197-fbd1eebc6...@e19g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >>spinoza1111 <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >that you're the one who needs to look at his problems, including the
> >> >deviant behavior in which you're engaging: it appears to me that you
> >> >are not even technically qualified to post here, and instead you
> >> >cruise networks (dressed in a bra, panties and Nazi hat?)
>
> >> If anyone was in any doubt about you, this should clear it up.
> >> I quote you here so that you cannot remove your disgusting
> >> statements from the public record.
>
> >What's disgusting is what happens to people who take the risk of
> >posting interesting and creative material about C and related matters,
> >only to find themselves the target of abuse.
>
> True, you certainly have targetted Seebs and Heathfield for abuse.
>
> >This character Harlan, in particular, has contributed nothing to this
> >discussion except abuse in which he takes his cue from the mob.
>
> Mob? I thought I was a transvestite loner in a basement -- when did I
> become part of a mob?

Yes, a cross-dressed loner in a basement,
In bra, panties, and a Hitler Hat,
Joining an ONLINE mob. Get it, slob?
>
> >He seeks to expose others and to ascribe to them the weakness,
> >impotence and fear he feels in a ridiculous zero-sum exchange in
> >which that gives him masturbatory relief.
>
> Was that more of your versification? I see a William S Burroughs
> influence. Random phrases tacked together that make no sense, yet
> manage to give an impression of malice.

It makes no sense, Hortense, if you cannot read
You should learn Ignorance, to plead
And if your horizons extend no further back
Than Burroughs, wack,
Then metrical verse in the style of Dryden or Pope?
Forget it, to ken it, it is beyond that for which thou may hope.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Macro to manipulate chars inside string
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/9d5125687dd742c0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 8:32 am
From: Andre

Hi all,

I need a macro to transform an value like 274A into {(char)0x27, (char)
0x4A}. Does anyone know how to do it, or where can I find more
information about this kind of macro?

Thanks,

Andre

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:16 am
From: Richard Heathfield

Andre wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I need a macro to transform an value like 274A into {(char)0x27, (char)
> 0x4A}. Does anyone know how to do it, or where can I find more
> information about this kind of macro?

It's not absolutely to me clear what you want to do, but I /think/ you
want to load 0x274A into the first two members of an array of char. This
is somewhat muddied by C's allowing chars to be wider than 8 bits, but
if we just assume you want the high 8 bits in the first char, and the
low 8 bits in the second, you can do this:

#define U16_TO_CHAR2(arr, x) \
do { (arr)[0] = ((x) & 0xFF00) >> 8; \
(arr)[1] = (x) & 0xFF; } \
while(0)

I wouldn't trust my weight to that macro, however. In fact, in the light
of recent "discussions" about what constitutes a recommendation, I would
add that I definitely don't recommend it. Too many things can go wrong.

Note that this macro does not null-terminate the array, so it isn't a
string-builder. (Easily fixed if that's what you want.) Note, too, that
it assumes x is an integer type, and it will take only the bottom 16
bits of that value. If you want more, write a bigger macro - or, far
better, write a decent function to do the job instead.

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line vacant - apply within

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:29 am
From: Ben Pfaff

Richard Heathfield <rjh@see.sig.invalid> writes:

> Andre wrote:
>> I need a macro to transform an value like 274A into {(char)0x27, (char)
>> 0x4A}. Does anyone know how to do it, or where can I find more
>> information about this kind of macro?
>
> It's not absolutely to me clear what you want to do, but I /think/ you
> want to load 0x274A into the first two members of an array of
> char. This is somewhat muddied by C's allowing chars to be wider than
> 8 bits, but if we just assume you want the high 8 bits in the first
> char, and the low 8 bits in the second, you can do this:
>
> #define U16_TO_CHAR2(arr, x) \
> do { (arr)[0] = ((x) & 0xFF00) >> 8; \
> (arr)[1] = (x) & 0xFF; } \
> while(0)

To do this, I'd write a function, e.g. following your model:

#include <stdint.h>

void u16_to_char2(unsigned char arr[2], unsigned int x)
{
arr[0] = (x & 0xff00) >> 8;
arr[1] = x & 0xff;
}
--
char a[]="\n .CJacehknorstu";int putchar(int);int main(void){unsigned long b[]
={0x67dffdff,0x9aa9aa6a,0xa77ffda9,0x7da6aa6a,0xa67f6aaa,0xaa9aa9f6,0x11f6},*p
=b,i=24;for(;p+=!*p;*p/=4)switch(0[p]&3)case 0:{return 0;for(p--;i--;i--)case+
2:{i++;if(i)break;else default:continue;if(0)case 1:putchar(a[i&15]);break;}}}

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:32 am
From: Richard Heathfield

Ben Pfaff wrote:
> Richard Heathfield <rjh@see.sig.invalid> writes:
>
>> Andre wrote:
>>> I need a macro to transform an value like 274A into {(char)0x27, (char)
>>> 0x4A}. Does anyone know how to do it, or where can I find more
>>> information about this kind of macro?
>> It's not absolutely to me clear what you want to do, but I /think/ you
>> want to load 0x274A into the first two members of an array of
>> char. This is somewhat muddied by C's allowing chars to be wider than
>> 8 bits, but if we just assume you want the high 8 bits in the first
>> char, and the low 8 bits in the second, you can do this:
>>
>> #define U16_TO_CHAR2(arr, x) \
>> do { (arr)[0] = ((x) & 0xFF00) >> 8; \
>> (arr)[1] = (x) & 0xFF; } \
>> while(0)
>
> To do this, I'd write a function

So would I. :-)

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line vacant - apply within

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