twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 15 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

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Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Do I want this tool grinder?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f12c863033d5b19b?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 6:36 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:94875e60-8151-4163-9733-01cf31f93edc@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 20, 1:40 am, "Buerste" <buer...@buerste.com> wrote:
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:3ee02b61-4aa4-4acc-9898-7e5097b394d7@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 18, 12:01 pm, "Buerste" <buer...@wowway.com> wrote:
>
> >http://www.mckeanmachinery.com/inventory/product-detail.php?item=BR5405
>
> > I have no experience with such and don't really know what it can do but
> > the
> > price is right and will fulfill my obligation to the "Machine Tool Of
> > The
> > Month Club". I can probably get it for 1/2 - 2/3 of asking price. What
> > tooling do I need for it?
>
> Found those company records yet Tommy?
>
> How about that job for Gunner?
>
> Your track record for delivering the goods is dismal.
>
> Let me guess... you expect to pay for this machine with an IOU?
>
> laugh...laugh...laugh...
>
> TMT
>
> Where's the escrow? Explain why my records are your concern. If you like,
> you can get a D&B , but you can't afford it,can you? Did you get your
> cheese-check late this month? Gunner has a job any time he wants it.
> Unlike you because you have no skills or work ethic. I see your heroes are
> dropping like flies! Laugh, laugh, laugh!

Always an excuse with wingers.
**********************************

Always a lie with you Libtard Douchebagger Neo-Socialist losers. Tell the
nice people you're sorry for being an asshole then go kill yourself as your
heroes get thrown from office and into jail. Most people resent the Oxygen,
food and water you consume. Especially since you're on the cheese-check
dole and have never contributed to society. You're just a worthless eater.
Now, turn your mommy's computer off, go kiss your daddy-uncle Fred
goodnight. And please start wearing pants, your mommy hates the skid-marks
that you leave on her good Naugahyde furniture.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 7:39 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 20, 8:36 pm, "Buerste" <buer...@buerste.com> wrote:
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:94875e60-8151-4163-9733-01cf31f93edc@j6g2000vbd.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 20, 1:40 am, "Buerste" <buer...@buerste.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:3ee02b61-4aa4-4acc-9898-7e5097b394d7@y33g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> > On Feb 18, 12:01 pm, "Buerste" <buer...@wowway.com> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.mckeanmachinery.com/inventory/product-detail.php?item=BR5405
>
> > > I have no experience with such and don't really know what it can do but
> > > the
> > > price is right and will fulfill my obligation to the "Machine Tool Of
> > > The
> > > Month Club". I can probably get it for 1/2 - 2/3 of asking price. What
> > > tooling do I need for it?
>
> > Found those company records yet Tommy?
>
> > How about that job for Gunner?
>
> > Your track record for delivering the goods is dismal.
>
> > Let me guess... you expect to pay for this machine with an IOU?
>
> > laugh...laugh...laugh...
>
> > TMT
>
> > Where's the escrow? Explain why my records are your concern. If you like,
> > you can get a D&B , but you can't afford it,can you? Did you get your
> > cheese-check late this month? Gunner has a job any time he wants it.
> > Unlike you because you have no skills or work ethic. I see your heroes are
> > dropping like flies! Laugh, laugh, laugh!
>
> Always an excuse with wingers.
> **********************************
>
> Always a lie with you Libtard Douchebagger Neo-Socialist losers. Tell the
> nice people you're sorry for being an asshole then go kill yourself as your
> heroes get thrown from office and into jail. Most people resent the Oxygen,
> food and water you consume. Especially since you're on the cheese-check
> dole and have never contributed to society. You're just a worthless eater.
> Now, turn your mommy's computer off, go kiss your daddy-uncle Fred
> goodnight. And please start wearing pants, your mommy hates the skid-marks
> that you leave on her good Naugahyde furniture.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

First you promise Gunner a job and then don't deliver.

Next you brag about your "big" business expansion.

Next you blow off about how "big" a businessman you are and can't
even deliver on your offer for records.

Now for a businessman who according to your own reports is making
money hand over fist you are spending your time on Usenet insulting
those who call you to task.

Poor little Tommy...is this how you talk to your employees at Ohio
Boob?

TMT

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 10:50 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:7a95f3d9-8915-4338-aa22-98bff3dc7eb7@c16g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
<snip>
Poor little Tommy...is this how you talk to your employees?

TMT

You'll never be an employee ANYWHERE! You're cheese-check existence is the
perfect model of the Libtard Douchebagger Neo-Socialist agenda...no job, no
morals, no "Hopey-Changey"! Just more of your skidmarks on your mommy's
furniture in her rented trailer because you refuse to wear pants. You
should at least wipe your ass, you leave shit everywhere you go. How many
men did your mommy tell you to call "Uncle" today? Did any of them want to
see your room...again? Did you like their ...attentions? I'll bet you did!

As the Libtards fade from existence and lose every election, the incoming
Conservatives will cut your cheese check and you will starve. Your Utopia
didn't even last one year, that has to be a new record. Sucks to be you.

Where's the escrow account? Posting lies again I see. Did you order that
D&B? Do you even know what that is? Can you use Google? Get one of your
"uncles" to show you how. I'm waiting for that D&B so hurry up.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cordless Tool Battery Charging Question
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7f7b6ccf0ca99a9f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 6:50 pm
From: "Wild_Bill"

Generally, as long as the battery pack doesn't get hot, the charger probably
isn't causing any damage to the cells.

When the charge is completed, if the battery pack was warm, it should cool
down to ambient after it's been on a trickle charge rate/cycle for a while.
If the battery remains much warmer than ambient while trickle charging (an
hour after a full charging cycle), the trickle current is probably a bit
excessive. Trouble is, ya can't do much about it, as far as modifying most
sophisticated chargers.

The trickle charge level only needs to be high enough to cancel/eliminate
the self-discharge rate of the cells (both NICAD and NIMH), although some
new NIMH cells claim to have zero or very low self-discharge rates.

See the Maintenance Charge section
http://www.ka7oei.com/nicds.html

There are many different grades of high quality cells, and some are designed
to withstand a constant, but reduced charging current, rapid charging and/or
rapid discharging. Trouble is, ya don't know for sure which grade of cells
are in a battery pack unless you selected and installed them yourself from a
quality manufacurer such as Panasonic or Sanyo.
Some high quality cells can cost over $24 per cell (1.2V per cell x 10 cells
for a 12V pack), so you can understand why so many folks experience
rechargeable battery problems.

Poorly designed chargers and low grade cells result in short battery pack
lifetimes, even if the batteries are neglected and/or abused.
Trouble is, when most cells get weak, there isn't any way to rejuvenate
them, so replacement is the only practical option to fully restore the
battery pack's capacity.
Since many new battery packs cost almost as much as a brand new tool with
new batteries, landfills continue to fill up with discarded tools, and
groundwater-contaminating/poisoning battery packs.
Some chemistries of battery packs, such as cell phone and laptop batteries
can be restored with the proper, really expensive equipment (Cadex).

Most consumers don't have any way to gauge the condition of their battery
packs. Most battery tester/checkers with a meter, or a few LEDs don't show
the condition of the internal cells. Batteries that test good on these types
of testers can go dead in a matter of seconds.

Some chargers made for the Remote Control hobby users are somewhat
sophisticated, in being able to show mAh capacity during a controlled
discharge. Some models allow the user to select charging rates, etc. I have
one model that does these functions, the MRC Super Brain 977.
There are more advanced analyzers that connect to a PC and plot charging and
discharging rates.

Rebuilding battery packs isn't complicated for handy-type users with
soldering skills, if they're willing to buy good cells with tabs, to avoid
soldering directly to the cell terminals. There are usually several nearby
places where bad cells can be dropped off, so they can be recycled or
disposed of properly (incinerated?).

Many universal chargers switch from the charge rate, to a trickle rate when
a delta/volt level is sensed, so many models can be used for NICAD or NIMH.

There is always the possibility that battery packs can be overcharged or
undercharged, and most users won't know.

--
WB
.........

"Doug White" <gwhite@alum.mit.edu> wrote in message
news:Xns9D255DB39C1A7gwhitealummitedu@69.16.186.7...
> My wife & I each have coldless drills, which we use intermitently for
> household repairs & projects. The only way to make sure we have a charged
> battery handy for emergencies is to leave one in the chargers. Even
> though
> these are reasonably high quality chargers (Ryobi & DeWalt), I'm sure we
> are shortening the life of the batteries.
>
> It occured to me that one option might be to put the chargers on a timer,
> so that they are on for half an hour a day. That should top them off,
> without cooking them. The catch is that I'm not sure what sort of load
> the
> charger presents when it is off. I could just end up discharging the
> battery through (at a minimum) diode leakage. As long as the leakage is
> low, that might actually be OK, or it could produce a nasty memory effect
> in the NiCd's.
>
> Any thoughts or comments?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Doug White

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 9:41 pm
From: cavelamb

Wild_Bill wrote:
>
> Rebuilding battery packs isn't complicated for handy-type users with
> soldering skills, if they're willing to buy good cells with tabs, to
> avoid soldering directly to the cell terminals. There are usually
> several nearby places where bad cells can be dropped off, so they can be
> recycled or disposed of properly (incinerated?).
>
> Many universal chargers switch from the charge rate, to a trickle rate
> when a delta/volt level is sensed, so many models can be used for NICAD
> or NIMH.
>
> There is always the possibility that battery packs can be overcharged or
> undercharged, and most users won't know.
>

I had my 9.6 volt packs rebuilt by Interstate batteries.
They did it while I watched and the price was quite reasonable.

But the charger is still the brute simple Ryobi thing.
HAVE to watch the times.

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/

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TOPIC: Lathe now works great...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e55c0f61ef0d3d29?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 7:12 pm
From: John

Ignoramus30516 wrote:
> On 2010-02-21, Wes<clutch@lycos.com> wrote:
>> Ignoramus30516<ignoramus30516@NOSPAM.30516.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>> Mine seems to be steel and shows some damage. Not too bad though.
>>>
>>> Mine is very trashed.
>>>
>>> http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Clausing-6913-Lathe/04-Machining-A-Chuck/04-Machining-A-Chuck-0012.jpg
>>
>> That is nasty.
>>
>> Use this drawing someone passed on to me a few years ago. Make appropriate measurements
>> and deviate when required.
>>
>> http://www.garage-machinist.com/manuals/Collets_and_tapers/L_Series/Draw_nuts_for_type_L_spindle_noses.jpg
>
> Wow, thanks. It is not as easy to make, with those internal reliefs
> etc. (see near point marked 45 degrees).
>
> What is "Unified Form Special" thread?
>
> Anyway, my original plan was to make a steel "band" around the
> existing nut. The band would have the right width and would simply
> clamp the nut by means of socket head cap screw that would be
> perpendicular to the radius. I can draw a picture. Seems a little
> uglier, but less troublesome to make.
>
> i

the special means that it not a commonly used thread size. The common
size for a 3 3/4 inch diameter shaft is a 4 tpi thread.

The problem you have is to have a gauge when you cut the thread. You
have to gauge it with the spindle shaft and you have you chuck mounted
to it cutting the thread. :(

If I were machine it I would just cut the minor diameter in the nut and
then with an indicator on the cross slide and then thread outward until
I got to the double depth of the desired thread, taking a couple of
spring passes at the finish. A thread pitch gauge should fit completely
across the threads with no light coming through the thread contact area.
Things to watch is that the threading tool is perfectly perpendicular
to the nut axis and that the threading tool has the right profile on it.
New brazed tools E type are not always ground right from the
factory. I ruined and expensive 22 inch dia. nut I was making because
the tool was not done right. I had to use a brazed tool because an
insert was not readily available for the pitch of the thread. After you
cut the thread take about 5 thousandths out of the bore so you don't
have problems with the nut jamming from a little dirt in the threads
when you use the nut.

John

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 7:32 pm
From: John

I would shrink the band on and not worry about the set screw. The usual
allowance is .001 thou. per diameter inch interference fit.

John

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Open ball bearing lubrication
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0040ea1c80c070ee?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 7:23 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 18:27:54 -0500, the infamous "Wild_Bill"
<wb_wildbill@XSPAMyahoo.com> scrawled the following:

>I recall seeing a lot of white lithium-like greases used inside car doors,
>on window regulators/mechanisms, rods and linkages for door latches and
>locking parts.
>
>I don't remember what the particular advantage/beneficial feature of white
>lithium grease is, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I think it had one
>particular feature.

It's fairly inert and is a decent lubricant for slow movement.

>It gets used a lot, almost anywhere on cars.. door hinges, battery
>connectors, sheathed cables etc.
>
>It doesn't seem to present any problems when it's used in enclosed spaces
>(light duty gear cases), but I've found lots of dried out white lithium
>inside vented equipment.. dried enough that it can't be wiped away for
>cleaning, it needs to be attacked with solvents or scraped away.
>It gets semi-solid like wax as it gets dried out.
>
>Like I said earlier, I used to use it (fairly frequently) but I prefer many
>other types of greases over white lithium anymore.

I like the white spray lithium because it goes into tight holes as a
liquid, foams up, then hardens where it it. It really penetrates and
you can put it anywhere.

>One grease that I started using for certain applications like machine rack &
>pinion, drill press quill sliding surfaces and other gear-type applications,
>is a thick, non-silicone, synthetic gel-looking grease for brake caliper
>pins.
>It's really sticky, and continues to pull itself back into the pressure
>areas really well,
>whereas some greases just squish out to the sides of where they're needed.

Whoa! You don't want _any_ excess grease anywhere near the brakes,
Bill. I rub some on my fingers and pull the pin or slider plate
through it so there is only a very thin coating on it. It doesn't take
much at all.

--
"Just think of the tragedy of teaching children not to doubt."
-- Clarence Darrow

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Help With Hobart Cybertig
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fa01fd4eddd75d72?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 7:51 pm
From: JAckal

Hello,
I have a Hobart Cybertig 300. A couple of years ago it started running
wide open on amperage. It runs the maximum on low, med, or high range.

The potentiometer does nothing to control it and I tried it with and
with out the pedal hooked up.

The Gater board was sent to Innovat for repair and they said it was
ok.

Any help would be appreciated.

JAckal

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TOPIC: OT donate to sen. bennett and sen. gillibrand
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e1f414380a1c6da6?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 9:07 pm
From: "William Wixon"

bold progressives www.boldprogressives.org is calling for supporters of the
public option to make donations to the campaign funds of senator michael
bennett and senator kirsten gillibrand for their recent actions. you can
make a donation through act blue's website.

http://www.actblue.com/

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TOPIC: FS -- 275 amp Pipeline Welder, Continental 163 engine
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/dc43134cee7f371e?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 8:53 pm
From: "Martin H. Eastburn"

I'd check.
As an example, when moving from Southern Ca. to Texas in the 50's,
half of our whole goods being shipped was stopped at the boarder.
It was packed in two 40' trailers and the law at the time in TX
allowed for no semi-trailers after another.

Now they run 80' and make it anywhere.

So call ahead as some state lines are a long way to destination.
Martin

Bruce L. Bergman wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Feb 2010 14:57:00 -0800, "Bob F" <bobnospam@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>> Ignoramus21666 wrote:
>
>>> I believe that this is the case, this is a trailer with a small piece
>>> of equipment (welder) bolted to it. Needs lights, yes, but no
>>> license.
>> Is that generally true? I have wondered about requirements for towing my log
>> splitter here in Washington state.
>
> The laws tend to be MORE OR LESS uniform between the states, but
> it's the little details that will drive you utterly mad.
>
> They generally offer reciprocity in cases of honest misunderstanding
> or when the laws are more strict in the state you are traveling to or
> through. But you might have to go plead your case to the judge.
>
> Check with the Washington state DMV (or whatever they call it) to
> see what you need. Or call your friendly local cops, they are the
> ones that are going to hassle you about it.
>
> In California, farm and construction implements that are not
> generally driven on the street do not have to have license plates for
> incidental travel on the roads.
>
> This counts for tractors, combines, center loaders, graders, rollers
> and compactors, mining dump trucks, unitized pavers, profile grinders,
> and other self-propelled construction equipment. And for certain
> trailer-mounted or trailer-converted equipment (bolt an axle and tires
> to one end of the cement mixer, and a tongue & coupler to the other.)
>
> Farmers often have to cross the road with tractors and other
> implements to farm their land on the other side, without loading it
> onto a road legal trailer each time for a 200-foot trip, or a quarter
> mile down the road if he's renting another tract. That's where the
> laws originate.
>
> Where you DO have to get license plates is stuff that is on the road
> all day for long distances - tow-behind forklifts that travel on their
> own tires, most cargo and utility trailers.
>
> Tow Dollies are a gray area, some states require plates on them - but
> they do not carry any cargo, just the front wheels of the car in tow.
> (This is where semantics are important and words really do have
> meanings - you have to parse out the exact statute word for word...)
>
> The car *on* the tow dolly has to have current tags on it if it's
> being towed on a public street - if you don't or can't get tags you
> have to use a full car trailer and get all four tires off the street.
>
> And you can get plates put on almost anything, handy if you are a
> rental yard that wants a Certificate Of Title to prove ownership. They
> have the Special Equipment plates that are motorcycle sized and
> cheaper than usual.
>
> --<< Bruce >>--

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Why have the Democrats suddenly hallted work on Solving the Health Care
Crisis?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/83aa5e51e0c6cfe5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 8:59 pm
From: Hawke

On 2/20/2010 10:36 AM, RD (The Sandman) wrote:
> Hawke<davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in
> news:hlkblt$tbp$1@speranza.aioe.org:
>
>> Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
>>
>>>>> Clearly the right wing is desperately against Obama no matter what.
>>>>> They are desperate for him to fail because if he succeeds they know
>>>>> they will be out of power for decades.
>>>> That's what I want to know - how are the Republicans thwarting
>>>> the
>>>> Democrat majority? I mean, the Democrats are in the Majority - in
>>>> the House, In the Senate, in the 4th Estate? Who can oppose them?
>>>> Who could stop them?
>>>
>>> Obstructionists using a false "filibuster." But you know that and
>>> are just trolling...
>>>
>>
>> It's a rule. Right wingers always lie. What they think and what they
>> stand for can't stand the light of day so the have to lie to get what
>> they want. They're like used car salesmen who tell you the lemon they
>> are selling you is a real gem. That's a right winger for you. They
>> have to lie. They're good at it. They do it all the time. They do it
>> so much a lot of people wind up believing them. They pay for that
>> mistake too. It's just like the WMD lie that got us into Iraq. The
>> people never would have gone for it if they told them the truth. If
>> they told the truth about health care reform the people would be for
>> it. So they lie. What's new.
>>
>> Hawke
>>
>
> The biggest problems are partisan attitudes like yours.
>

My attitude isn't partisan. I was just stating a fact. When you make
excuses for your side when it's in the wrong and you attack the
opposition on everything and give no credit even when it is doing the
right thing that's partisan. I don't do that. I give credit where it's
due and I criticize anyone I think is doing something wrong like Obama's
war strategy in Afghanistan. Two examples of right wing lies are the big
one, on WMD in Iraq, followed by a newer one where numerous examples of
republican congressmen say they are against the stimulus bill and that
it doesn't work, when they know it does and have said so publicly at
local events where they are giving out checks for projects. Republicans
also say the people are against health care reform but polls
consistently show the majority of Americans want reform and want a
public option as well. I could give many more examples but why should I
bother? They have been getting caught in so many outright lies over the
years I don't know why anyone would believe a word they say without
independent verification first. That's not a partisan attitude either
it's just the truth.

Hawke

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 9:13 pm
From: Hawke

>> They already "chip in" - heavily. A more rational system would reduce
>> what they currently pay for those without insurance.
>>
>
> Then why don't the Democrats (or anyone else) simply pass the parts
> reduce costs. Then we can add the other stuff later when we see that the
> cost reductions really work. Otherwise it is simple puffery that they
> will. Hell, one thing that gets over looked is that reduce costs of that
> elephant, they had to increase the taxes, etc.. now, but not provide the
> uplift in service until 2014.

Insurance works best when there are a lot of people paying in and not so
many needing to be on the receiving end. If you don't do a full overhaul
of the current system and put the entire population in one big insurance
pool you won't get the cost reductions that we need. As it is now it's
in the interest of insurance companies to eliminate people that cost it
money. Last year the insurance companies dropped over two million people
from their coverage. They are increasing premiums on the people still
paying. That's how it works for them. Get rid of expensive people and
keep the ones who pay but do everything possible to deny their claims.
They made a great deal of profits last year. That way of doing things
has taken us from spending a little over 5% of GDP on health care in
1970 to over 17% today and to 20% in just a few years. That kind of
trend will bankrupt the country. If we don't make the change to national
health care it will ruin us. So we either have to bite the bullet now or
do it later. Getting rid of medical lawsuits isn't going to help. We
know what has to be done but doing it is the problem. Too many rich
special interests make too much money by keeping things as they are and
they are blocking what has to be done. It's pretty simple really. It's a
power struggle and the people are the losers.

Hawke

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Palin?s Unfavorability Ratings At All-Time High
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/444787d3bca9ddfe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 9:22 pm
From: Hawke

On 2/20/2010 9:39 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
> "RD (The Sandman)"<rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D2564000C7D7hopewell@216.196.97.130...
>> Cliff<Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>> news:bb9vn5tk5kkl4cp3064hmhmbkllp5e2fm1@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:21:31 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
>>> <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cliff<Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>>>> news:1euqn59m9fmtktirclhr9aitk55ai5s4n4@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:21:19 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
>>>>> <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep.....I also realize that only sector that pays taxes is the
>>>>>> private one.
>>>>>
>>>>> False.
>>>>
>>>> Care to show any tax monies paid by the public sector that didn't come
>>> >from the public sector which is financed by tax money?
>>>
>>> Have you considered telling the police, fire& road folks
>>> (just for starters) that they don't pay any taxes?
>>
>> They get paid from tax monies. They are simply returning it. The public
>> sector generates no new taxes and no revenues. All money that runs this
>> country comes from the private sector, mon ami.
>>
>> --
>> Sleep well tonight,
>>
>> RD (The Sandman)
>
> This is insignificant to your point, which is basically accurate, but, for
> the sticklers, roughly 1% of federal revenues (around $25 Billion) come from
> various fees -- to the Fed, aviation, user fees for federal land, etc. It's
> a tiny amount but it's a bit more than our total take from excise taxes, for
> example.
>
> For the record, corporate income taxes have fallen from around 5% of total
> revenues in 1950 to just over 2% now. For 2009, it's probably less than 2%.
> So much for the "oppressive" rate of corporate taxes.
>
> Back when the US experienced its greatest rate of growth, almost all of our
> revenue came from tariffs, which averaged around 40%. So much for the
> benefits of "free trade."<g>
>

Here's another one of the big lies from the right. America's corporate
taxes are too high and businesses need tax cuts badly. You notice they
never let up on this one either. What's the truth? The U.S. corporate
rate on paper is high, around 35%. But no one really pays that and in a
world wide rating of actual taxes paid by businesses the U.S. is in the
top 5 countries with the LOWEST! taxes paid by businesses.

I also question your 5% figure of total tax revenues in 1950. I recall
that during the 1950s nearly 39% of all taxes were paid by corporations.
Where do your figures come from?

Hawke

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 9:49 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Hawke" <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
news:hlqfvd$uq3$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> On 2/20/2010 9:39 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>> "RD (The Sandman)"<rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9D2564000C7D7hopewell@216.196.97.130...
>>> Cliff<Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>>> news:bb9vn5tk5kkl4cp3064hmhmbkllp5e2fm1@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 12:21:31 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
>>>> <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Cliff<Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>>>>> news:1euqn59m9fmtktirclhr9aitk55ai5s4n4@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, 15 Feb 2010 15:21:19 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
>>>>>> <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep.....I also realize that only sector that pays taxes is the
>>>>>>> private one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> False.
>>>>>
>>>>> Care to show any tax monies paid by the public sector that didn't come
>>>> >from the public sector which is financed by tax money?
>>>>
>>>> Have you considered telling the police, fire& road folks
>>>> (just for starters) that they don't pay any taxes?
>>>
>>> They get paid from tax monies. They are simply returning it. The public
>>> sector generates no new taxes and no revenues. All money that runs this
>>> country comes from the private sector, mon ami.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sleep well tonight,
>>>
>>> RD (The Sandman)
>>
>> This is insignificant to your point, which is basically accurate, but,
>> for
>> the sticklers, roughly 1% of federal revenues (around $25 Billion) come
>> from
>> various fees -- to the Fed, aviation, user fees for federal land, etc.
>> It's
>> a tiny amount but it's a bit more than our total take from excise taxes,
>> for
>> example.
>>
>> For the record, corporate income taxes have fallen from around 5% of
>> total
>> revenues in 1950 to just over 2% now. For 2009, it's probably less than
>> 2%.
>> So much for the "oppressive" rate of corporate taxes.
>>
>> Back when the US experienced its greatest rate of growth, almost all of
>> our
>> revenue came from tariffs, which averaged around 40%. So much for the
>> benefits of "free trade."<g>
>>
>
>
> Here's another one of the big lies from the right. America's corporate
> taxes are too high and businesses need tax cuts badly. You notice they
> never let up on this one either. What's the truth? The U.S. corporate rate
> on paper is high, around 35%. But no one really pays that and in a world
> wide rating of actual taxes paid by businesses the U.S. is in the top 5
> countries with the LOWEST! taxes paid by businesses.
>
> I also question your 5% figure of total tax revenues in 1950.
> I recall that during the 1950s nearly 39% of all taxes were paid by
> corporations. Where do your figures come from?
>
> Hawke

Whoops, I mixed up some percentages of total revenues with percentages of
GDP. The proportions are right, but the percentages are wrong.

The sources were combination of the Tax Policy Center figures; IRS
statistics, and some historical data on tariffs I recently read. The Tax
Policy Center figures will clear up the error I made in GDP versus revenue:

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/revenue.cfm

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Climate Change for Wingers (IOW "made simple")
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/199a47f1526e5d7f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 9:29 pm
From: Hawke

On 2/19/2010 5:38 PM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
> On Feb 20, 12:20 am, Hawke<davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>
>
> . And as long as energy producers have a
>> financial reason to make global warming seem false I'll be skeptical
>> about their arguments.
>>
>> Hawke
>
> Just do not forget that there are financial reasons to be is support
> of global warming too. You do not get grant money to study why
> everything is good. And all the alternate energy folks have an
> incentive to have global warming be a big problem that their alternate
> energy production can solve if the government will just create some
> tax right offs.
>
> The energy producers do not have as big an incentive. Oil is going to
> be valuable as a feedstock for petrochemicals for a long long time.
>
> Do get a copy of Super Freakenomics from the library. It is fun
> reading.
>
> Dan
>

I know the book you are talking about. I saw the author on Book TV
talking about the book. It sounded interesting but I have not had the
time to read it. I'm working on the Ruin of the Roman Empire at the
moment so I don't know when I'll get the chance to take a look at it.

On other thing about the climate scientists. It's true that they may
have financial interests now in getting grants but for a long time those
scientists were just gathering data on the environment and no one had
even heard of global warming. They just collected random data and when
years went by and it got hotter every year only then did they start
talking about warming on a global scale. If it's a proven fact that man
is causing global warming by burning fossil fuels that will mean a
global switch away from those fuels. That will damage or destroy the
fossil fuel industry. Companies would do a lot to prevent that, right?

Hawke

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 9:36 pm
From: Hawke

>> I just watched a show called How the Earth Was Made. It was all about
>> climate change over the ages and specifically about ice ages. They had
>> geologists who were studying ice cores that were 2 million years old.
>> It was a good show. When you see how many years the earth was mainly
>> covered by ice it makes you wonder about global warming. Seeing all
>> that ice makes warming seem not so bad. My point is that we could have
>> all the global warming going on and then whatever it is that creates
>> ice ages could come into play and over ride the warming. If earth's
>> orbit were to shift just a little the planet could go back to being
>> covered in ice. If the sun put out less energy for a short time we
>> could have another ice age. Any number of things could trigger another
>> ice age. None of that is happening now and from the science collected
>> over the last 20 years the data shows we're getting hotter. I find it
>> hard to believe that man's burning of fossil fuels doesn't have any
>> effect. I have seen what burning gasoline does in L.A. so I can't
>> believe we couldn't do the same thing planet wide. It's hard to know
>> what to believe when the anti global warming side is putting out
>> propaganda to support the energy industry. All we have to rely on is
>> what scientists tell us. I saw the geologists explaining how the
>> landscape of the earth was created by glaciers. I don't know otherwise
>> so I take their word for it. They know more than I do. It's the same
>> with the global warming. The scientific experts have said the planet
>> is getting hotter for 20 years. I have to take their word for it. When
>> there is proof showing that's wrong I'll accept it. Until then I'll
>> believe what the vast majority of the experts say is true. And as long
>> as energy producers have a financial reason to make global warming
>> seem false I'll be skeptical about their arguments.
>>
>> Hawke
>
> Explain how burning gasoline in L.A. is making the planet Pluto hotter.

How exactly do you jump to that conclusion from what I wrote? I was
saying that the combustion of fossil fuels in a highly populated area
like L.A. was enough to have a major impact on the environment. It
basically ruined the air quality. I used to live there. I'm saying that
if man can negatively affect the quality of the air in a local area like
L.A. why is it a big jump to think man can do the same thing on a planet
wide scale? Or why can't man increase the temperature of the planet if
he burns enough fossil fuel? Not only do I think we can do that I think
we did do it. Lots of climate scientists say we did too. I'll believe
them over what a coal company says any day of the week. The question is
why would you believe a coal or an oil company when they tell you global
warming is not caused by using their products?

Hawke

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT Mini-SUV's, what's good?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/d9c9526f0cea703f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 10:26 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

RogerN wrote:
>
> "Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:7_Dfn.234560$er1.134013@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
> > "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> wrote:
> >
> >>Any recommendations on small size SUV type vehicles as far as long life
> >>and
> >>reliable? (4runner, Escape, Pathfinder, ...)
> >
> > Why a suv? Do you live in the rust belt? I'm talking where cars rot away
> > before the
> > powertrain dies.
> >
> > Wes
> > --
> > "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
> > government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
> > in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
>
> We live in the deer belt, I once hit 3 deer at one time, they darted in
> front of me, one got ran over, one knocked in the ditch and another just
> barely hit. I think they all got up and ran off but I think the one I ran
> over was injured, I couldn't see much in the mirror. A mini SUV offers
> enough height so the deer hits the grill and not the window I hope. I just
> figure my wife would have less tendency to try to dodge small animals and a
> better chance of not being injured if she hits a deer.

She needs a duece & a half. Just hose off the blood, and keep
driving it. :)

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PC Hardware Problem
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/52adc8b84c613bed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 10:58 pm
From: Tim Wescott

It's been ages since I kept current with PC technology, so I wanted to
run this by some of you, to see if it lights any bulbs.

One of my boxen runs for a while, then (in Linux at least) kernel panics
and resets (in Windows it resets, but I haven't stood over it to know if
Windows notices the problem). My kid and I were working on it today to
reinstall Ubuntu on the theory that the software was just royally
screwed, which is when I noticed the kernel panicking.

It acts like a thermal problem -- leave it off for a long time and it
takes a long time to have a problem, use it a lot and it happens much
more often. All the fans work, and at one point I was able to monitor
the various system temperatures which showed OK, so it's not something
simple like the processor overheating.

At this point I'm about ready to start swapping parts, but part-swapping
costs $$, so I thought I'd ask the group if these symptoms sound
familiar, and if you found out anything specific to go with them.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 11:37 pm
From: "Jon Slaughter"

Tim Wescott wrote:
> It's been ages since I kept current with PC technology, so I wanted to
> run this by some of you, to see if it lights any bulbs.
>
> One of my boxen runs for a while, then (in Linux at least) kernel
> panics and resets (in Windows it resets, but I haven't stood over it
> to know if Windows notices the problem). My kid and I were working
> on it today to reinstall Ubuntu on the theory that the software was
> just royally screwed, which is when I noticed the kernel panicking.
>
> It acts like a thermal problem -- leave it off for a long time and it
> takes a long time to have a problem, use it a lot and it happens much
> more often. All the fans work, and at one point I was able to monitor
> the various system temperatures which showed OK, so it's not something
> simple like the processor overheating.

I had the same problem. Starting a few weeks ago my computer started
freezing up mainly after I would leave it(say in over night). It turned out
that the heatsink compound was dried up... fixed that and it's been running
fine ever since(about 2 weeks).

Of course it could potentially have been something else but that seems to
have been the issue. What happened was the thermal compound was relatively
dry and I guess wasn't making good enough contact and would eventually cause
the thermal sensor to trip(most modern CPU's have a shutdown mode to prevent
damage).

I was monitoring the temp too but since it always happened when I was
off(except the last few times) I never knew what was going on and imagined
it couldn't be overheating when I wasn't on it(since it was basically in
idle) but after replacing the compound no issues at all.

Anyways, it's worth a look...

It could be the memory or PS... usually one of those is the issue(Which is
why I figured it was my memory since I have a monster PS).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Postcards from the edge
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/467357917c0397a4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 11:15 pm
From: Cliff

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:29:34 -0600, Neolibertarian <cognac756@gmail.com> wrote:

>In article <8o3vn5lifl3dg2ae5pd5b07ldjcqef3ltv@4ax.com>,
> Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>
>>
>> Ladies and gentlemen, your modern right-wing, media-driven conservative
>> movement.
>
>In 1832, Henry Clay was convinced Andrew Jackson was a simpleton, with
>wildly impractical ideas for governing this nation.
>
>Jackson had recently vetoed a bill that would have renewed the charter
>of the Second Bank of the United States (BUS). Jackson hated the idea of
>paper money, and thought it an evil which only benefited large banks and
>the wealthy. "Rag money," he called it, and he referred to the BUS as a
>"ragg tagg bank."
>
>His veto of the bill was strongly worded and he filled it with caustic
>hyperbole. In it, he stated that the bank was monopolistic, profitable
>mainly to foreigners, hostile to states rights, inefficient, and
>declared that it was unconstitutional. All of these charges seemed
>ridiculous to Clay and his followers--and even to some of Jackson's
>supporters, especially those in Pennsylvania (Philadelphia was the
>headquarters of the BUS). Clay thought Jackson was demeaning his own
>credibility by appealing to the great unwashed with such silly populist
>nonsense--nonsense that would never stand up to rational scrutiny.
>
>Clay printed up 30,000 copies of Jackson's veto and distributed them
>throughout the country during the campaign. He made it his prime
>campaign issue. He thought Jackson own silly words would damn him.
>
>This backfired, of course. It turns out that a great majority of
>Americans held views very similar to Jackson's in regards to banks and
>paper money.
>
>Jackson picked up 219 electoral votes that election, to Clay's meager 49.

IIRC Jackson ended up being one of our worst presidents.
And a drunkard & partier.

Now we ended up with a national bank anyway ... it was needed.

BTW, FOREIGN banks support the wingers & rethugs. Largest donors to
bushco IIRC.
And bin Laden too I gather. He probably just loves
rethugs & teabaggers.
--
Cliff

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 11:30 pm
From: Cliff

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 07:29:34 -0600, Neolibertarian <cognac756@gmail.com> wrote:

[
Five Muslims were arrested last December for suspicion of attempting to poison
the food supply at the Fort Jackson U.S. Army base in South Carolina.

In a news story broken by Fox News Channel's national security correspondent
Catherine Herridge on Thursday afternoon, ....
]
[
The Christian Broadcasting Network reported that five Muslim suspects were
"arrested," a claim repeated by Michelle Malkin, Jim Hoft, the New York Post,
Atlas Shrugs, Jihad Watch, Fox Nation, and the Drudge Report.
]
[
Shortly after 6 p.m. on February 18, Bret Baier, host of Fox News' Special
Report, stated that "[t]he Army is now investigating allegations that some
soldiers at Fort Jackson, South Carolina, have deliberately tried to poison the
food supply at that facility."
]

Faux was STILL repeating these winger lies on 20 Feb 2010.

[
The right wing has made these claims despite the fact that military officials
have said "there is currently no credible evidence to substantiate the
allegations."
]
[
Fort Jackson spokesman: "Two months of investigation, there has been no credible
evidence to support the allegations." A February 18 press release from the Fort
Jackson Public Affairs Office states:
[
In December 2009, five Soldiers were investigated for potential verbal threats
against fellow Soldiers. While the investigation continues there is currently no
credible evidence to substantiate the allegations. At no time was there any
danger to the Fort Jackson community.
]]
[
Army spokesman Garver: "[T]hey have not found any credible information to
substantiate the allegations."
]
[
The Associated Press reported on February 18 that .... "no credible information
to support the allegations has been found"
]
[
Criminal Investigation Division spokesman Chris Grey "says there is no credible
information to support the allegations,
]
[
Pentagon spokesman "said he is unaware of any arrests made."
]
[
The Atlantic's Marc Ambinder reported that "the Army says it's not true. No one
has been arrested. The National Security Council was not aware of any arrests, a
spokesperson said."
]
[
Centanni further stated, "The fact that the FBI is not actively investigating
is a fair indication it's not any kind of extremist plot."
]

Etc.

Lying winger media.
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: respect for fallen vets
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fe642af69876b479?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 11:21 pm
From: Don Foreman

We attended a funeral today. Good friend's dad, who was a vet. Not
a military funeral, but there was an American Legion honor guard at
the cemetary. John had been an active Legionaire. It was a bit
raggedy, but done by volunteers with the best of respectful intents on
a winter Saturday.

It reminded me of an experience I've never forgotten:
---
I once was assigned to run a military graveside ceremony while on
active duty. This was a week after my Dad's funeral. I asked the
Captain if one of the other officers could maybe take this one since I
was still grieving myself. I don't recall what his response was to
quote it, but the essence was: suck it up and get it done,
Loooootenit. The assignment had come down from Battalion and
probably started above that level, maybe considerably above since the
deceased was a decorated career soldier and NCO.

Had my mission assignment. I didn't have to like it but I did have
to do it. I could find no regulations or guides for such a ceremony
so I had to wing it. Kuh-lick, that's why the Captain dumped this
one on me: can't do it by the book if there is no book, and I was
better at improv than book anyway so it was Captain's revenge,
Loooooootenit. The Captain was a pure-D asshole.

I selected 4 or 5 of the sharpest troops in the company, we pooled
what little we knew about how such things are done, kinda devised a
ceremony and drill that seemed right and then we developed and
rehearsed it several times. In our version, there were no spoken
commands at all, just my subtle hand signals at a couple of start
points. My idea (in 1965) was a modest small-team version of one
hatched much later at Annapolis in 1990
http://www.usna.edu/DrillTeam/site/index.htm
but we put it together in an hour or two each of 3 days. But then,
we weren't exactly snot-nosed fuzzy-cheeked kaydets. We were sojers.
When the M-14 rifles fired their blanks in salute volleys, it was as
one crack each volley rather than the usual ragged rip. Those
motivated, impeccably turned-out soldiers were sharp. When they
came to rifle salute for the folding of the flag it was in flawless
unison with snap -- again with no spoken command, all that was heard
was the quiet sound of hard hands slapping stocks in perfect unison.
The theme we were striving to convey was dignity and respect. It
was really cool with crack drill team precision. Oh, and I'd found
a GI who could play taps on a bugle, or trumpet, or coronet, or
whatever he used and he played it superbly. It was haunting and
beautiful with the last note fading to silence ever so slowly and
sweetly.

When I presented the folded flag to the widow she thanked me and
tearfully said it was the most beautiful ceremony she had ever seen.
I'll bet she'd seen her share of them as wife of a career soldier.

That was all the feedback I cared about. I passed that along to the
men and they seemed pleased and proud to hear it. Never heard a
word about it from the Captain. No news was good news most days.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Palin caught lying again !!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/11438d55184e2ddd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 11:36 pm
From: Cliff

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:54:36 -0500, Patriot Games <Patriot@america.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Feb 2010 09:01:06 -0500, Cliff
><Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>On Tue, 16 Feb 2010 10:04:22 -0500, Patriot Games <Patriot@america.com> wrote:
>>>On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 08:53:21 -0500, Cliff
>>><Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>>>http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/opinion/perspectives/612138-263/palin-makes-a-few-errors-in-convention.html
>>>> "Palin makes a few errors in convention speech – and on Fox"
>>>>[
>>>>On Fox News Sunday, Palin repeated her false claim that Alaska produces
>>>>one-fifth of the nation's energy:
>>>>Palin (Feb. 7): [Alaska is the] largest, most diverse state in the union, 20
>>>>percent of the U.S. domestic supply of energy coming from our state.
>>>>This is far from true, just as it was in 2008 when she claimed the same thing.
>>>>Back then we noted that the U.S. Energy Information Administration showed that
>>>>Alaska accounted for 3.5 percent of all domestic energy production in 2005, the
>>>>most recent figures then available.
>>>>Now the figure is even lower. The EIA's current statistical breakdown shows
>>>>Alaska's energy production made up just under 2.9 percent of the U.S. total in
>>>>2007.
>>>>]
>>>> How stupid can one winger be?
>>>Why do DemocRATs always LIE?
>> Palin: "20 percent of the U.S. domestic supply of energy coming from our
>>state."
>>>Crude Oil Production - Current - Monthly-Thousand Barrels
>>>U.S.: 163,974
>>>Alaska (PADD5): 19,743
>>>Alaska (Offshore): 5,755 Total: 25,498
>>>http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_crd_crpdn_adc_mbbl_m.htm
>>>15.5%
>>>High Point 1987:
>>>U.S.: 257,844
>>>Alaska (PADD5): 63,325
>>>Alaska (Offshore): 4,469 Total: 67,794
>>>26.3%
>>>Average = 20.9%
>>>Palin said "one-fifth."
>>>20.9% IS one-fifth.
>>>http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPUS1&f=M
>>>http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCRFPAK1&f=M
>>>http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=M_EPC0_FPF_AKSF_1&f=M
>>>Offshore Gross Withdrawals of Natural Gas (Million Cubic Feet)
>>>U.S. Total 2007: 3,492,744
>>>Alaska Total: 374,204
>>>10.7%
>>>http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/ng/ng_prod_off_s1_a.htm
>> FREE CLUE: That's oil & gas production, not energy.
>
>BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH!!!!
>
>What do YOU think "energy" IS, RETARD?
>
>HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Energy is energy.
It is not just "oil & gas production".
And much of that goes into plastics & chemeicals anyway
so THAT's not "energy" either.

You never passed grade school science any more than Palin did.

I just gotta stop giving dumb lying idiot wingers free clues !!!
--
Cliff

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Feb 20 2010 11:40 pm
From: Cliff

On Sat, 20 Feb 2010 10:35:31 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net> wrote:

>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 14 Feb 2010 13:35:35 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>That's including 0bama's 57 states, I assume.
>>
>> Teresa Heinz ("57 Varieties") Kerry.
>> One can easily understand, considering the moment.
>> And, IIRC, quickly corrected.
>>
>> BTW How many States can Palin find?
>
>Varieties of tomato and number of states have very little to do with
>each other. Perhaps leftists see some connection but real people
>don't.

At the time Kerry was clearly on Obama's mind.
Teresa Heinz ("57 Varieties") Kerry is an heir to Heinz.

>I don't know how many states Palin can find, but 0bama told us there
>were 57.

And corrected the slip IIRC.
There is a term for such but I forget it at the moment.

>Perhaps he was anticipating annexing Iraq, Iran,
>Afghanistan, Pakistan, and Haiti. Leftists are sneaky and you have to
>watch them at all times.

"You Have To Keep Repeating Things To Catapult The Propaganda" - bush II.
--
Cliff

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Saturday, February 20, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

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