twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 12 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
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Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Hey Ed, that snow coming up your way?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5da3fd42a63375e4?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 7:34 pm
From: "DoN. Nichols"

On 2010-02-06, Ed Huntress <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> "Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:hkic3l$tn1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>I was a bit touched you worried about me when the storm was on up my way a
>>month or two
>> back. Now I'm concerned about you and yours. What does it look like at
>> your end? Sounds
>> like you are going to get dumped on in a place that really doesn't
>> understand how to deal
>> with snow.
>>
>> Hope your pantry is stocked up.
>>
>> Wes
>
> It hasn't started yet -- any minute now. But the latest report shows it
> passing mostly to the south of us. Atlantic City may wind up with two feet.
> We probably won't get more than 6 inches.

Hmm ... we've already got 8" based on the pile on the deck
railing, maybe deeper if I went out to actually measure it.

> My son, however, just got clobbered. (He's in Lexington, VA, in the
> Shenandoah Valley.) They really aren't used to that much snow. They have a
> foot and they're getting up to another foot.

Vienna VA, and we're predicted to get a total between 20 to 30"

[ ... ]

> Let it snow. <g> I'm baking a pumpkin pie and I'll make some cornbread in a
> few minutes. And thanks for asking, Wes. We actually have good, and quick
> snow removal here. And my neighbor has a truck with a big plow on it. I've
> got it made.

Our rent-a-daughter has to go to work early tomorrow. She's
"essential personell", so she may have to take our Mazda Navajo for the
4WD and high ground clearance -- assuming that our street even gets
plowed by then.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:25 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"DoN. Nichols" <dnichols@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:slrnhmpoq8.emb.dnichols@Katana.d-and-d.com...
> On 2010-02-06, Ed Huntress <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>> "Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
>> news:hkic3l$tn1$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>I was a bit touched you worried about me when the storm was on up my way
>>>a
>>>month or two
>>> back. Now I'm concerned about you and yours. What does it look like at
>>> your end? Sounds
>>> like you are going to get dumped on in a place that really doesn't
>>> understand how to deal
>>> with snow.
>>>
>>> Hope your pantry is stocked up.
>>>
>>> Wes
>>
>> It hasn't started yet -- any minute now. But the latest report shows it
>> passing mostly to the south of us. Atlantic City may wind up with two
>> feet.
>> We probably won't get more than 6 inches.
>
> Hmm ... we've already got 8" based on the pile on the deck
> railing, maybe deeper if I went out to actually measure it.
>
>> My son, however, just got clobbered. (He's in Lexington, VA, in the
>> Shenandoah Valley.) They really aren't used to that much snow. They have
>> a
>> foot and they're getting up to another foot.
>
> Vienna VA, and we're predicted to get a total between 20 to 30"
>
> [ ... ]

Yike. You're right in the middle of it. 'Hope you can just hole-up this
weekend.

>
>> Let it snow. <g> I'm baking a pumpkin pie and I'll make some cornbread in
>> a
>> few minutes. And thanks for asking, Wes. We actually have good, and quick
>> snow removal here. And my neighbor has a truck with a big plow on it.
>> I've
>> got it made.
>
> Our rent-a-daughter has to go to work early tomorrow. She's
> "essential personell", so she may have to take our Mazda Navajo for the
> 4WD and high ground clearance -- assuming that our street even gets
> plowed by then.

Good luck to her. Even 4WD can be problematic with that much snow.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cholesterol synthesis can be turned off
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7b6813402a79a9af?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 7:37 pm
From: Kelson Birdsell

Cholesterol synthesis can be turned off
[url=http://buycrestor.net]Buy Crestor[/url]
IKKB can be 'turned on' and thus stimulate (result in) NF-kB
activation in response to stimuli as diverse as fluid sheer stress in
arteries, heat, cold, mechanical trauma, hypoxia, antibodies, exposure
to radiation, ...
Similarly, as statins block cholesterol synthesis... cholesterol is a
necessary molecule for life and highly evolutionarily conserved.
Cholesterol and its derivatives are vital for our mitochondrial and
its optimal function. (a sharp-witted MD, my buddy, .... (NONE)
I'm going to rip off the robust and fine Dr. Lane again (w/
permission). He theorizes what the master metabolic controller
regarding salmon, worms and humans. I think, perhaps, the coyotes
provide a clue too. ...
999 Enterprise Group, hand in hand with Nan Jin University of Chinese
Medicine, successfully turned out this soft capsule of Ganoderma
Lucidum spore oil by means of advanced processing and abstracting
facilities, .... Triterpene compounds of this kind can prevent the
stomach and the intestinal canal from taking in cholesterol; it can
also suppress the rate-limiting enzyme (knows as HMG-CoA) in the
process of cholesterol synthesis, and thus control the synthesis
of ...
You are being redirected to the standard view of the article because
you have JavaScript turned off. To see the abstract in enhanced view,
please switch on JavaScript and click here. ...... Inducible
prostaglandin E2 synthesis interacts in a temporally supplementary
sequence with constitutive prostaglandin-synthesizing enzymes in
creating the hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis response to immune
challenge. Elander, L., Engstrom, L., Ruud, J., Mackerlova, L.,
Jakobsson, ...
In addition, Alnylam scientists presented new pre-clinical data in a
poster titled "Carbohydrate Conjugation to siRNA for Tissue and Cell
Specific Delivery" on the design and synthesis of conjugated siRNAs
using the carbohydrate ligand, N- acetylgalactosamine (GalNAc), ...
RNAi (RNA interference) is a revolution in biology, representing a
breakthrough in understanding how genes are turned on and off in
cells, and a completely new approach to drug discovery and
development. ...
"Dap1 controls the activity of a clinically important class of enzymes
required for cholesterol synthesis and drug metabolism," says Peter
Espenshade, Ph.D., assistant professor of cell biology at Johns
Hopkins. ... Reasoning that whatever controls the P450s likely would
be turned on and off at roughly the same time as the P450 enzymes
themselves, the researchers found that Dap1 does just that in the
yeast cell. To figure out what Dap1 does, Espenshade and
colleagues ...
You are being redirected to the standard view of the article because
you have JavaScript turned off. To see the abstract in enhanced view,
please switch on JavaScript and click here. ...... Anlaysis of
complementary expression profiles following WT1 induction versus
repression reveals the cholesterol/fatty acid synthetic pathways as a
possible major target of WT1. Rae, F.K., Martinez, G., Gillinder,
K.R., Smith, A., Shooter, G., Forrest, A.R., Grimmond, S.M., and
Little, ...
For example, an enzyme maker can now use computational approaches plus
gene synthesis to design more effective compounds. So instead of
arduously searching through thousands of enzymes to perform a task,
the company can zero in on the best ones faster. ..... In 2006,
Codexis (Redwood City, CA, USA) used directed evolution of three
biocatalysts to improve the production of atorvastatin, the active
ingredient in Pfizer's cholesterol-lowering drug Lipitor. ...
You are being redirected to the standard view of the article because
you have JavaScript turned off. To see the abstract in enhanced view,
please switch on JavaScript and click here. ..... Mevalonate
decarboxylase (CG8239), which supports cholesterol biosynthesis and
is currently being tested therapeutically to reduce cholesterol
levels, showed similar muscle specificity as did the sterol-regulating
enzyme ARV1 (CG32442). Mutants of ARV1 have previously been shown
to ...
You are being redirected to the standard view of the article because
you have JavaScript turned off. To see the abstract in enhanced view,
please switch on JavaScript and click here. ...
My daughter turned veggie aged 7. She'll be 17 next month and is a
fit and healthy teenager. She loves the Quorn range – tonight she had
a Quorn kiev. Tomorrow she's having sweet & sour Quorn pieces
with rice, yesterday she had a veggie mince and onion pie with ....
Too much can be bad, but as with saturated fats there are more healthy
ways of disposing of it, like regular exercise. Anyway, it isn't
so much how much cholesterol you eat, but how well yur body handles
it. ...
[10] Some insects have terpenoid biosynthesis pathways which do not
proceed via this intermediate, whose formation is the rate limiting
step of cholesterol synthesis. ANSWER: mevalonic acid [or
mevalonate] .... Towards the end of this work, a letter by
Armand's reveals that one character who had run away with Lady
Griffith has turned mad, and that character is (*) Vincent, the
brother of the depressed Olivier. Olivier envies Bernard in this work
after Bernard becomes a ...
He believed that eggs were the best for both building muscle and
losing fat, but that saturated fat and cholesterol could prove
hazardous. According to bodybuilder Brian Horton, some of the athletes
were now eating chicken and fish instead of beef and eggs. .....
Steroid use does not typically turn a mild mannered individual into a
madman as the media would have us believe but anabolic steroids can
increase aggression to some degree. If you are already an S.O.B., ...
Turn autoplay off. Turn autoplay on. Please activate cookies in order
to turn autoplay off. Jump to content [s]; Jump to comments [c]; Jump
to site navigation [0]; Jump to search [4]; Terms and conditions
[8] .... Statins inhibit an enzyme called HMGCoAReductase, which is
involved in cholesterol synthesis. Taking statins interferes with the
body's negative feedback processes which automatically inhibit
cholesterol production when it reaches a certain level [ people
with ...
In fact, they believe that people of all ages can be safely given an
unlimited number of drugs all at the same time: Antidepressants,
cholesterol drugs, blood pressure drugs, diabetes drugs, anti-anxiety
drugs, sleeping drugs and more -- simultaneously! ..... How many of
these complaints can be turned back on you, Mike? How many alt-med
enthusiasts and religionists claim to have a lock on secret, ancient
knowledge superior to anything produced by scientific
investigation? ...
How many of them know that magnesium inhibits cholesterol synthesis
just like statins do? Daryl asked 'How many billions of dollars is
the statin industry worth?' Quite. How many nutritionists know
about the work of Leslie Klevay, ..... We CAN eat grains whole and
raw like a mouse can, if they're sprouted. It wouldn't have
taken an enormous brain to understand that grains turn into little
plants if you add water. Sprouted seeds are just about the most
nutritious things ...
It was in the 70s that research pioneered by Akiro Endo, P. Roy
Vagelos and others suggested the initial steps in cholesterol
synthesis as prime targets for possible drugs. The logic was rather
simple; targeting later ... One of the strategies to improve
bioavailibility turned out to be to use the ring opened compound
instead of the lactone which had been a mainstay of some other
statins. The synthesized molecules were shuttled into animal testing
which was no cakewalk . ...
In 1953, Ancel Keys kicked off the anti-cholesterol campaign, under
the spell of which American health discourse has persisted ever since.
Keys charted a graph of six countries' death rates from coronary
heart disease (CHD) against their respective available amounts ...
Yet the idea of a central, all-encompassing, "public"
institution, representing some sort of mythical synthesis of all
humanity, gives an authoritative stamp upon the scientific opinions of
a State agency. ...
But, remarkably, the authors lamented that these targeted screening
strategies could miss 40-70% of kids who could be identified for
cholesterol treatment. Then, in the next passage, they turned around
and admitted that an "unanswered question is ..... Growth and
maturation of (pre)-pubertal children could be negatively affected by
modifying cholesterol synthesis. Moreover, results of recent trials
suggest that, when treatment is postponed until adulthood, progression
of ...
The main regulatory mechanism is the sensing of intracellular
cholesterol in the endoplasmic reticulum by the protein SREBP (Sterol
Regulatory Element Binding Protein). Cholesterol synthesis can be
turned off when cholesterol levels are ...
I've been joking about premature Alzheimer's. Turns out
it's no joke. These things can mimic that. Worst of all, my
writing has turned to utter shit. I didn't think to Google this
until now. Because I didn't know about it. I hadn't been told
of this possible ..... Thelen KM, Rentsch KM, Gutteck U, Heverin M,
Olin M, Andersson U, von Eckardstein A, Bjorkhem I, Lutjohann D. Brain
cholesterol synthesis in mice is affected by high dose of simvastatin
but not of pravastatin. ...
I had read the biochemistry texts, and I knew that insulin stimulated
HMG Co-A reductase, the rate limiting enzyme in the cholesterol
synthesis pathway; and I also knew that glucagon (insulin's
counter regulatory hormone) inhibited that same enzyme. ... I would
never have even noticed it had he not been sitting there with his
shirt off. Talk turned to my own weight loss, and he asked me if I
could put him on a diet to help him lose his little pot belly. ...
The real danger and the urgency, why I'm writing this now, is that
if you keep trying to tell people they can't handle the
information, it's just going to make them trust you less and give
an opening for quacks and fraudsters to take .... Surely whatever
harm did arise would pale in comparison to the harm that frauds and
quacks are doing this very moment to patients turned off by this
medical paternalism? I also find it a little hard to believe that real
harm would come ...
That would mean that the molecular machinery for vitamin D synthesis
using UV radiation in the skin is turned off by inputs that turn up
inflammation. Thus, I shudder at the potential for rickets when I see
the stack of food rations for AIDS orphans in South Africa. .....
People ignore the fact that certain skin cells can perform the whole
synthesis of Vitamin D3 from cholesterol through to the active hormone
without intervention from liver/kidneys. ...
To refresh your memory statin drugs are designed to inhibit
cholesterol synthesis [in the liver] by their effect on the mevalonate
pathway. It seems that a consequence of the inhibitory effect of
statin drugs on the mevalonate pathway is .... Further, I have such
great difficulty in swallowing that I can only eat pureed food and I
have lost a lot of weight. I am tired a lot, feeling weak and my
breathing has declined somewhat. I have been off statins for 2 1/2
years and ...
We already know that a diet high in carbohydrates stimulates excess
insulin and that insulin causes cholesterol synthesis within the cell
and that means high carbohydrate diets are out as a practical means of
trying to control cholesterol .... Eating in a way that avoids the
production of excess insulin is, without question, the single most
important thing you can do to lose weight easily, keep it off
permanently and improve your health literally in every way
measurable. ...
One attractive approach might be to target the genetic switches that
promote cholesterol and lipid synthesis, but it would require a
detailed understanding of the regulatory mechanisms before drug
targets can be identified. ... Between meals, the production of
cholesterol and lipids should be turned off, however, excess intake of
foods, coupled with lack of exercise, appear to disturb the normal
checks and balances that control SREBPs, resulting in overproduction
of ...
The highly complex fungal products, called statins, blocked
cholesterol synthesis at a key step. Roth's challenge was to make
a molecule that acted the same as statins but was straightforward to
assemble. .... Read the rest of the interview if you want to hear how
we'd all be better off if everything turned into biotech start-
ups. But you say that you thought those were companies, too, and
weren't funded by NIH money, but rather by investors who are often
hoping for a ...
Let's look at both in turn. Epidemiological studies look at the
relationship between factors (such as smoking and lung cancer,
exercise and dementia, saturated fat and heart disease) in
populations. These studies can only really ..... So it could be
argued that a high-carb diet is just as detrimental as a high-fat
diet, in the context of cholesterol synthesis. January 18, 2010 @
10:29 pm. Tanya says: Oh - look whose name appears in this article on
the Unilever website! ...
You are being redirected to the standard view of the article because
you have JavaScript turned off. To see the abstract in enhanced view,
please switch on JavaScript and click here. ..... We found previously
that a defect in a retinoid binding protein expressed in the RPCs
prevents de novo synthesis of rhodopsin [13]. Here, we demonstrate
that RPCs also function in an enzymatic visual cycle necessary for
chromophore regeneration. Thus, the RPCs share both functions
with ...
Without looking up the details of cholesterol synthesis, cholesterol
would seem to be far too important for the "rate limiting step" to be
5 steps before the final synthesis without multiple control points in
between. Cholesterol is far too ...... This is turn can cause
hypoglycemia, which can lead to increased desire for carbohydrates.
Some call this carbohydrate addiction, and it can lead to something
called syndrome x, which in turn can lead to type 2 diabetes. ...
The paternal genes are turned off. The Subconscious and nonconscious
or Mid Brain and Stem/Cerebellum brain is the main thinking center
which affects the superconscious and conscious or right and left brain
of this person. ... Bile acid synthesis defect, congenital; Pyruvate
dehydrogenase phosphatase deficiency; High density lipoprotein
cholesterol level QTL 2; Thyrotropin-releasing hormone resistance,
generalized; Trichorhinophalangeal syndrome, type I; ...
Cholesterol is made in our body and is a necessary component in the
synthesis of Hormones, Vitamin D and other necessary components.
Statins lower cholesterol by blocking inhibit a liver enzyme which in
turn limits the production of mevalonate, .... I can symphathize with
Anne. I took Lipitor for two years with no apparent problem. Then
gradually I started to experience the same symptoms she described. I
was taken off Lipitor for about 6 weeks and then prescribed
Zocor . ...
However, several animal studies indicate serious health risks
associated with GM food consumption including infertility, immune
dysregulation, accelerated aging, dysregulation of genes associated
with cholesterol synthesis, insulin regulation, .... In the end, the
GM plant's DNA can be a staggering 2‐4% different from its
natural parent.12 Native genes can be mutated, deleted, or permanently
turned on or off. In addition, the insertion process causes holistic
and ...
Statin drugs exert their lipid-lowering effect by blocking an enzyme
in the liver that is involved in the early stages of cholesterol
synthesis. Statins inhibit the synthesis of mevalonate, a precursor
not only to cholesterol, ..... They can all go rancid, just as any
fat can become rancid. Think in terms of butter that smells
"off" - you wouldn't want to eat that either. Even whole
wheat flour can go rancid, because of the naturally occuring wheat
germ oil in it. ...
By doing this they turned off lipid synthesis in the liver in response
to fructose. No hepatic insulin resistance despite fructose intake:
Wow!!!!!!!!!! Take this drug and you too can drink Pepsi Max without
turning your liver in to ...
The peak concentration of total cholesterol, LDL-CHO and HDL-CHO
occurred at CT8 in apoE-/-mice on RC, which delayed four hours in
apoE-/-mice on HF diet and reached at CT12, and didn't show in
C57BL/6J during a cycle (Fig. .... Without the light stimulus,
intrinsic circadian clock will be turned off. As shown in our data,
the change of diet components had no effect on expression of master
circadian genes. In the peripheral organs, peripheral circadian clock
was mainly ...
In contrast, bears — whose cholesterol levels can be three times as
high as man's and whose heart rates slow way down during
hibernation, remarkably never show any atherosclerosis. ..... A
deficiency in ascorbate caused increased cholesterol synthesis
(production). Feeding animals increased amounts of cholesterol reduced
their vitamin C levels, and, conversely, vitamin C supplementation
decreased cholesterol levels. Dr. Willis also showed that vitamin C
could reverse ...
Risk factors include obesity, sedentary lifestyle, unhealthy eating
habits, high blood pressure and cholesterol, a history of gestational
diabetes and increased age, many of which can be reduced through
exercise. ... "This may turn people off, particularly older adults.
However, we have found that activities like tai chi can be just as
beneficial in improving health," the expert added. Tai chi is an
ancient Chinese martial art that combines deep breathing and
relaxation ...
Cholesterol synthesis can be turned off when cholesterol levels are
high, as well. HMG CoA reductase contains both a cytosolic domain
(responsible for its catalytic function) and a membrane domain. The
membrane domain functions to sense ...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT-Social Security $28 billion in the hole
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5e543d07a3e16308?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 7:36 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

>
> Good luck with your mom.
>
> It sounds like she has a good son.
>

The opposite is true.
I've got a good Mom.
A little nuts, but otherwise OK.

--
John R. Carroll

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:17 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

Ed Huntress wrote:
> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
> news:AL-dnfxDdfZHIfHWnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>> "Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
>>> news:hkicg7$15h$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>> I'm sure that most of them don't know how it all works. And they're
>>> counting on most of the country not knowing how it works. That's how
>>> they get people worked up and angry -- by selling them a bunch of
>>> baloney, playing on their suspicions and their lack of
>>> understanding. That's what creates paranoia.
>>
>> My Mom and I are watching Beck every evening. It's becoming a sort
>> of past time.
>> She actually records his and Smith's daily broadcasts so we can
>> watch it together.
>> LOL
>
> Now, THAT's entertainment. <g>

She's funny.
I haven't cross connected her new DVR to the new big screen yet so she's
limited in how much material she can store.
I swear Ed, watching her select an episode of Beck's show to erase in order
to make space is painful <G>

>
> For example, if you talk to someone who thinks that our national debt
> is insurmountable, at 83% of GDP, and explain to them that it was
> 120% of GDP after WWII and was followed by two decades of high
> average growth, they look immediately for a reason this couldn't be
> true, rather than trying to figure out why it IS true.

You ought to use a more current example Ed.
I've had people respond that "things are different now" which is the
equivelant of "doesn't count".
LOL
When Belgium entered the EU they were a 240 percent of GDP, IIRC.
Today, they enjoy a higher standard of living than American's do.
That does count.

--
John R. Carroll

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:25 pm
From: Beryl

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> On Feb 5, 3:33 pm, Ignoramus17710 <ignoramus17...@NOSPAM.
> 17710.invalid> wrote:
>> On 2010-02-05, azotic <azo...@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>> A report from the Congressional Budget Office shows that for the first time
>>> in 25 years, Social Security is taking in less in taxes than it is spending
>>> on benefits.Instead of helping to finance the rest of the government, as it
>>> has done for decades, our nation's biggest social program needs help from
>>> the Treasury to keep benefit checks from bouncing -- in other words, a
>>> taxpayer bailout.
>>> Social Security will be $28 billion in the hole this fiscal year, which ends
>>> Sept. 30.
>>> http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/02/news/economy/social_security_bailout....
>>> Exporting jobs finally shows results...............
>> Tom, Republicans were always in support of "free trade", which is
>> associated with exporting jobs.
>>
>> I also support "free trade", by the way, even though I voted for
>> Obama.
>>
>> The reality is that, given our free trade treaty obligations and the
>> capitalist system, there is very little that we can do to prevent jobs
>> going to the lowest suitable builder.
>>
>> So some impoverished villagers in India bid $3/day to make cheap vises
>> and poison their own environment, and guess what, that's where the job
>> goes and we cannot do much about it.
>>
>> Those villagers cannot bid $3/day to build airplanes, so these jobs
>> still stay in the US.
>>
>> It is not free trade that causes our problems, it is excessive
>> borrowing.
>>
>> i
>
> Not yet that is.
>
> China is working very hard to become a viable airplane exporter.
>
> In the future you will be driving a Chinese car.
>
> And flying in a Chinese airplane.
>
> TMT

Cessna 162 SkyCatcher
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_162

A $110,000 airplane
"By manufacturing the aircraft in China, Cessna reported that it saved
US$71,000 in production costs per aircraft produced."

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:35 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:_tadnW5xOvhecPHWnZ2dnUVZ_uOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Ed Huntress wrote:
>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>> news:AL-dnfxDdfZHIfHWnZ2dnUVZ_sidnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>> "Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:hkicg7$15h$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> I'm sure that most of them don't know how it all works. And they're
>>>> counting on most of the country not knowing how it works. That's how
>>>> they get people worked up and angry -- by selling them a bunch of
>>>> baloney, playing on their suspicions and their lack of
>>>> understanding. That's what creates paranoia.
>>>
>>> My Mom and I are watching Beck every evening. It's becoming a sort
>>> of past time.
>>> She actually records his and Smith's daily broadcasts so we can
>>> watch it together.
>>> LOL
>>
>> Now, THAT's entertainment. <g>
>
> She's funny.
> I haven't cross connected her new DVR to the new big screen yet so she's
> limited in how much material she can store.
> I swear Ed, watching her select an episode of Beck's show to erase in
> order
> to make space is painful <G>
>
>>
>> For example, if you talk to someone who thinks that our national debt
>> is insurmountable, at 83% of GDP, and explain to them that it was
>> 120% of GDP after WWII and was followed by two decades of high
>> average growth, they look immediately for a reason this couldn't be
>> true, rather than trying to figure out why it IS true.
>
> You ought to use a more current example Ed.
> I've had people respond that "things are different now" which is the
> equivelant of "doesn't count".
> LOL
> When Belgium entered the EU they were a 240 percent of GDP, IIRC.
> Today, they enjoy a higher standard of living than American's do.
> That does count.
>
> --
> John R. Carroll

Yeah, but I avoid using European countries as examples when I'm talking to
self-styled "fiscal conservatives."

The whole issue is whether you can grow your way out of the debt. We have in
the past, and there are plenty of examples from around the world to show
what the economic pattern is that makes it happen.

And the final point is this: If we can get a good rate of growth going,
we'll wonder before long what we were worried about. If we can't get it
going, we're screwed anyway. The best shot at getting it moving, now that
monetary controls have crapped out and we're at near-zero interest, if
deficit spending. National debt won't matter much if we stall out, like
Japan did for over a decade, and like it's doing again.

If that happens, we'll all be on tenterhooks -- the US, Europe, and Japan --
hoping that we don't have a sharp downturn in the middle of it. The only way
out of that, should you have a big downturn while the debt is piled up, is
to inflate your way out (problematic, if the economy is slumping to begin
with) or to default. Neither one is a happy option.

So we should be doing everything possible to stimulate growth. It's looking
fairly good, except now we're entering the 1937 moment: Conservatives are
saying to stop the deficit spending now that GDP has flattened out. That's
just what they said in '37, which we did, and which whip-sawed us into the
second phase of the Depression.

--
Ed Huntress

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:58 pm
From: cavelamb

Beryl wrote:
>>> i
>>
>> Not yet that is.
>>
>> China is working very hard to become a viable airplane exporter.
>>
>> In the future you will be driving a Chinese car.
>>
>> And flying in a Chinese airplane.
>>
>> TMT
>
> Cessna 162 SkyCatcher
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cessna_162
>
> A $110,000 airplane
> "By manufacturing the aircraft in China, Cessna reported that it saved
> US$71,000 in production costs per aircraft produced."

It looks like they have addressed the nasty flat spin issue by a small
change to CG/CL relationship and redesign of the vertical surfaces.

And the matched hole tooling should reduce labor costs.

Cessna has never tried that before.
But Richard VanGrunsven has developed it to a fine art for the
amateur built market.

Considering that Cessna is currently selling the 1960's design 172 for a
quarter million, this is not a bad price for a brand new Light Sport
production aircraft.

On the other hand ---
I'd never willingly ride in an Airbus!

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power
to tell just when the hands will stop, at late or early hour...
Now is the only time you own. Live, love, toil with a will.
Place no faith in time. For the clock may soon be still."

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:03 pm
From: F. George McDuffee

On Fri, 5 Feb 2010 20:17:40 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
<nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
<snip>
>> For example, if you talk to someone who thinks that our national debt
>> is insurmountable, at 83% of GDP, and explain to them that it was
>> 120% of GDP after WWII and was followed by two decades of high
>> average growth, they look immediately for a reason this couldn't be
>> true, rather than trying to figure out why it IS true.
<snip>
=======

It is indeed likely that if we could return to the culture and
economy existing in the U.S. after WWII we could indeed "grow"
our way out of debt, however that was then and this is now.

Operationally that country no longer exists, and for sure the
circumstances/conditions/environment/society/culture/policies are
now completely different.

The demographics are swamped by the retirees/boomers, and low
skill legal and illegal immigrants make up increasing fractions
of the population.

Glass-Steagall has been repealed and the bulk of corporate profit
now comes from "financial services," thus the tail is again
wagging the dog.

A major problem is that there are no longer any "American"
corporations, only transnational corporations with their
headquarters located in the U.S., more-or-less as an accident of
history.

Welcome to the 21st century....

Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anybody need an air bearing spindle ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/12681aabd7f23243?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 7:40 pm
From: oldjag

On Feb 4, 12:38 am, Jon Elson <el...@pico-systems.com> wrote:
> I just picked up a Professional Instruments
> BlockHead 4R air bearing
> spindle assembly. It has an integral motor,
> resolver, brake and shaft
> encoder. It was used in a disk drive development
> lab, and currently has a
> pneumatically activated clamp for a disk platter
> mounted on it.
> But, looking at the company web site (still in
> business, the 4R is still
> a current model) they use these for precision
> grinding and other tool
> applications, too. It is rated for 10,000 RPM,
> and has a radial stiffness of
> 0.67 Lbs/microinch. I don't know the details of
> the motor, whether it is
> 3-phase induction or PM brushless. It appears to
> be unused, as it still
> has the factory shipping lock on the spindle.
>
> This is a big unit, seems to weigh about 40 Lbs.
> Does anyone have
> any use for such an item (before I list it on eBay)?
>
> Jon

I might have a use for it. What is the overall length?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Nagano Mini-excavator
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e36380de2b619bfa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 7:43 pm
From: jnormile@suddenlink.net (John Normile)

A friend of mine has a problem with his mini-excavator. It is a
"Nagano" NS-15. The problem is in the unit that rotates the cab and
bucket arm. After disassembly we found the pinion that mates with a
large ring gear is broken.

My friend was told that the pinion was not available, and he would
need to buy the whole new rotator unit for something north of 5 grand.

At this point we are looking for a source for a used part. After a
web search I was not able to locate a used part of even a used rotator
unit.

Any help in finding this part would be appreciated.

John Normile
camperkn_at_yahoo_dot_com

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 7:50 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

John Normile wrote:
> A friend of mine has a problem with his mini-excavator. It is a
> "Nagano" NS-15. The problem is in the unit that rotates the cab and
> bucket arm. After disassembly we found the pinion that mates with a
> large ring gear is broken.
>
> My friend was told that the pinion was not available, and he would
> need to buy the whole new rotator unit for something north of 5 grand.
>
>
> At this point we are looking for a source for a used part. After a
> web search I was not able to locate a used part of even a used rotator
> unit.
>
> Any help in finding this part would be appreciated.

Could you just make one?

--
John R. Carroll

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:04 pm
From: "Artemus"

"John Normile" <jnormile@suddenlink.net> wrote in message
news:4b6ce484.42193881@news.eternal-september.org...
> A friend of mine has a problem with his mini-excavator. It is a
> "Nagano" NS-15. The problem is in the unit that rotates the cab and
> bucket arm. After disassembly we found the pinion that mates with a
> large ring gear is broken.
>
> My friend was told that the pinion was not available, and he would
> need to buy the whole new rotator unit for something north of 5 grand.
>
>
> At this point we are looking for a source for a used part. After a
> web search I was not able to locate a used part of even a used rotator
> unit.
>
> Any help in finding this part would be appreciated.
>
> John Normile
> camperkn_at_yahoo_dot_com
>
>
How about taking the pieces of the pinion to a machine shop and see if
they can repair it for you? If not, maybe they can make you a new one?
Art

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:11 pm
From: Jim Wilkins

On Feb 5, 10:43 pm, jnorm...@suddenlink.net (John Normile) wrote:
> ...
> My friend was told that the pinion was not available, and he would
> need to buy the whole new rotator unit for something north of 5 grand.
> ...
> John Normile
> camperkn_at_yahoo_dot_com

Making an unavailable gear::
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/HomeMadeMachines#5285710370886636434

The cutter was shaped to fit an undamaged tooth space in the broken
original.

That one is aluminum. How about Stressproof or 4140 Prehardened?

jsw

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:19 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

Jim Wilkins wrote:
> On Feb 5, 10:43 pm, jnorm...@suddenlink.net (John Normile) wrote:
>> ...
>> My friend was told that the pinion was not available, and he would
>> need to buy the whole new rotator unit for something north of 5
>> grand. ...
>> John Normile
>> camperkn_at_yahoo_dot_com
>
> Making an unavailable gear::
> http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/HomeMadeMachines#5285710370886636434
>
> The cutter was shaped to fit an undamaged tooth space in the broken
> original.
>
> That one is aluminum. How about Stressproof or 4140 Prehardened?

Better to break the pinion than the ring for one thing.
Make two and have an available spare.

--
John R. Carroll

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:42 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:0L-dnWO62ai2c_HWnZ2dnUVZ_vednZ2d@giganews.com...
> Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> On Feb 5, 10:43 pm, jnorm...@suddenlink.net (John Normile) wrote:
>>> ...
>>> My friend was told that the pinion was not available, and he would
>>> need to buy the whole new rotator unit for something north of 5
>>> grand. ...
>>> John Normile
>>> camperkn_at_yahoo_dot_com
>>
>> Making an unavailable gear::
>> http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/HomeMadeMachines#5285710370886636434
>>
>> The cutter was shaped to fit an undamaged tooth space in the broken
>> original.
>>
>> That one is aluminum. How about Stressproof or 4140 Prehardened?
>
> Better to break the pinion than the ring for one thing.
> Make two and have an available spare.
>
> --
> John R. Carroll

But neither Stressproof nor a machineable hardness of 4140 is going to make
much of a pinion. Those things typically are loaded like crazy. If they're
through-hardened (the weakest heat treatment for a highly loaded gear, but
the most common), they're generally too hard to machine with ordinary tools
and machines.

Is this a straight-tooth pinion, or a spiral or hypoid? If it's one of the
latter, there aren't many shops that could make it, without a Gleason or
Liebherr gear generator, which means a custom gear maker. Not cheap. Even if
it's straight, it's not a heck of a lot easier. The teeth and the gullets
are tapered from one end to the other.

I'm wondering if the size of the set is close enough to that of a truck ring
and pinion that you could make that fit, or machine either one a bit to fit.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A new "constitutional right"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8e77e80070fe5b42?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 7:45 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

"John R. Carroll" wrote:
>
> Frito Pendejo wrote:
> > Cliff wrote:
> >> Unlimited funding for office from unions.
> >> Buy your rethugs now !!!
> >
> > Unions have been purchasing Democrats for decades, so I don't see why
> > they would suddenly change brands and purchase Republicans instead.
>
> Price.

Yes. The unions like cheap crap that was made by poorly trained union
workers.

--
Greed is the root of all eBay.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Clausing magnetic switch won't latch
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/774334033ed7222c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:16 pm
From: GeoLane at PTD dot NET

I bought a 5914 Clausing lathe last weekend. I"m running it off of a
rotary phase converter, that at this point does not have balancing
capacitors.

The drum switch on the lathe has a set of momentary contacts inside
that activate the magnetic switch when you move the handle a little
past the forward or reverse position. When the momentary contacts are
closed, the switch pulls up and the motor runs, but the mag switch
drops out as soon as the momentary contacts are released.

I have tried exchanging the different leads from the RPC to the lathe
so that the wild leg wouldn't be part of the mag switch circuit and
that didn't solve the problem.

The wiring inside the drum switch was not standard, and connecting the
power lines to the places it had been when previously, it didn't run.
Same symptom - switch would pull up ,but not latch and motor ran with
a pulsation / vibration. I got the wiring diagram from Clausing and
rewired it to factory standard. Still won't latch. Using the drum
switch and bypassing the mag switch works fine. The motor itself
seems to be OK.

What I can see from the wiring diagram supplied by Clausing and from
the diagram inside the mag switch box, it appears that all is wired
correctly. I am having difficulty following the flow of power in the
switch. The diagram has me confused.

Any thoughts on trouble shooting?

RWL

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Failin' Palin fails to pay taxes on two houses she owns..........LOL!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/af53d8ce4d7352ca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:40 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9f0c74f0-026a-4bb2-8248-57216a106ef0@u26g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 5, 6:12 pm, "Buerste" <buer...@wowway.com> wrote:
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9d741a0b-bcde-448a-94d0-47c84623b1ea@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 5, 1:58 am, "Buerste" <buer...@wowway.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:89960a3a-b9f4-4abd-8359-6f1f033ca35b@g1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
> > On Feb 4, 11:44 pm, "edi...@netpath.net" <edi...@netpath.net> wrote:
>
> > > It's not the property owner's fault if the assessor screws up - and
> > > that's all that happened in the Palin case.
>
> > >http://www.Internet-Gun-Show.com-yoursource for hard-to-find stuff!
>
> > LOL...poor deluded idiot.
>
> > Why was the "error" in her favor?
>
> > And now that the taxcheater is out of the bag...will Palin be willing
> > to pay ALL the back taxes?
>
> > Stay tuned.
>
> > TMT
> > ***************************************************
>
> > Geithner-$25,970.00, Daschle-$100,000.00, Rangel-$75,000.00? and all the
> > other libtards are REAL tax cheats, Palin owes $1.49 for hunting cabin
> > structures made from sticks and mud.
> > Tax cheats are OVERWHELMINGLY Demoturds! I'm surprised you'd bring this
> > up
> > as it is such an obvious Demoturd activity.
>
> LOL...another conservative that needs a visit from the IRS auditor.
>
> Did you know that anyone who turns you in gets a cut of the money
> recovered?
>
> And of course you have told us how great business is so we are talking
> real money here.
>
> Laugh..laugh..laugh..
>
> TMT
> *******************************************************
>
> Any time you like, I will send you my accounting firm's name and number
> along with out IRS contact. However, if no discrepancy is found, you will
> forfeit the $10,000 that you will put in an escrow account before you
> start
> this folly and you will pay any fees needed by my accounting firm. Agreed?
>
> See, that's the difference between people like me that don't ever cheat
> and
> libtards that ALWAYS cheat. Google "morals" some day and read up on the
> subject.
>
> No, I STILL won't hire you, you could never be trusted, you have no skills
> and my people would refuse to work with a non-productive employee. Even
> the
> union wouldn't allow you a job here.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I will save you the cost of the stamp.

Post the information here so we can all make share in the spoils.

So go ahead...put up or shut up winger.

We're ALL waiting....

TMT
**********************************************

Show proof of the n$10,000 in escrow and a binding letter from you attorney
that you will be responsible for any costs incurred in addition to the
$10,000 Now, PUT-UP OR SHUT-UP.

Since you don't have a job and are constantly begging me for one, I assume
you don't have the $10,000 or the money for accounting fees, why don't you
get the money from your libtard douchebagger friends here? Oh, that's
right...you HAVE no friends, not even libtard douchebaggers.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:43 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Curly Surmudgeon" <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote in message
news:hkinh8$br4$8@news.eternal-<snip>

> Before Bozo Filtering Buerste I, too, challenged him to put some serious
> cash where his mouth is.
>
> He refused.
>

You libtarded douchebagger liar. Why don't YOU put up the funds for TMT's
folly?
(how did you get out of the "Asshole Box"? ...back in you go!)

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:46 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4B6CE31C.1FE043E6@earthlink.net...
>
> Buerste wrote:
>>
>> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:9d741a0b-bcde-448a-94d0-47c84623b1ea@d37g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 5, 1:58 am, "Buerste" <buer...@wowway.com> wrote:
>> > "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >
>> > news:89960a3a-b9f4-4abd-8359-6f1f033ca35b@g1g2000yqi.googlegroups.com...
>> > On Feb 4, 11:44 pm, "edi...@netpath.net" <edi...@netpath.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > > It's not the property owner's fault if the assessor screws up - and
>> > > that's all that happened in the Palin case.
>> >
>> > >http://www.Internet-Gun-Show.com-your source for hard-to-find stuff!
>> >
>> > LOL...poor deluded idiot.
>> >
>> > Why was the "error" in her favor?
>> >
>> > And now that the taxcheater is out of the bag...will Palin be willing
>> > to pay ALL the back taxes?
>> >
>> > Stay tuned.
>> >
>> > TMT
>> > ***************************************************
>> >
>> > Geithner-$25,970.00, Daschle-$100,000.00, Rangel-$75,000.00? and all
>> > the
>> > other libtards are REAL tax cheats, Palin owes $1.49 for hunting cabin
>> > structures made from sticks and mud.
>> > Tax cheats are OVERWHELMINGLY Demoturds! I'm surprised you'd bring this
>> > up
>> > as it is such an obvious Demoturd activity.
>>
>> LOL...another conservative that needs a visit from the IRS auditor.
>>
>> Did you know that anyone who turns you in gets a cut of the money
>> recovered?
>>
>> And of course you have told us how great business is so we are talking
>> real money here.
>>
>> Laugh..laugh..laugh..
>>
>> TMT
>> *******************************************************
>>
>> Any time you like, I will send you my accounting firm's name and number
>> along with out IRS contact. However, if no discrepancy is found, you
>> will
>> forfeit the $10,000 that you will put in an escrow account before you
>> start
>> this folly and you will pay any fees needed by my accounting firm.
>> Agreed?
>
>
> Where would he get $10,000?
>
>
>> See, that's the difference between people like me that don't ever cheat
>> and
>> libtards that ALWAYS cheat. Google "morals" some day and read up on the
>> subject.
>>
>> No, I STILL won't hire you, you could never be trusted, you have no
>> skills
>> and my people would refuse to work with a non-productive employee. Even
>> the
>> union wouldn't allow you a job here.
>
>
> --
> Greed is the root of all eBay.

He's all flash and no picture. He's never SEEN 10k, his cheese-checks
aren't that much in a year.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:47 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Buerste" <buerste@wowway.com> wrote in message
news:Lr6bn.17600$3n2.17242@newsfe01.iad...
>
> "Curly Surmudgeon" <CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote in message
> news:hkinh8$br4$8@news.eternal-<snip>
>
>> Before Bozo Filtering Buerste I, too, challenged him to put some serious
>> cash where his mouth is.
>>
>> He refused.
>>
>
> You libtarded douchebagger liar. Why don't YOU put up the funds for TMT's
> folly?
> (how did you get out of the "Asshole Box"? ...back in you go!)

It's good to see you're still making friends wherever you go, Tawwwwm. It's
important to be polite and respectful, you know.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Range report
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e22413ef5a972546?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 8:44 pm
From: Don Foreman

On Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:56:59 -0500, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:

>RBnDFW <burkheimer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Every range I've been too have a "no rapid fire" rule.
>>Most take it with a grain of reasonableness.
>
>
>Is that a commercial range?
>
>Wes

Yes.

There's nothing about rapid fire in the rules published on their
website, but the final authority is always the range officer in
charge. They've never said anything to me about it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: weight & quality Emcoturn
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fdce7df5ba954992?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:02 pm
From: Don Foreman

On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 09:38:25 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
<karltownsend.NOT@embarqmail.com> wrote:

>Sometime in the not terribly distant future I'll be living in a two bedroom
>condo. I need to make plans now or I'll go nuts with no projects.
>
>Anyway, I seen this near where I live:
>http://cgi.ebay.com/Emco-Maier-EMCOTURN-120P-CNC-LATHE-Emcotronic-TM02_W0QQitemZ230430357236QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Lathes?hash=item35a6b836f4
>
>Is this thing light enough to go up a set of stairs and live in a spare
>bedroom? (er small shop) Is it a high quality lathe for its size?

It's about 500 lb, so about like a 5 foot upright piano.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Most states remain blue ...and sane.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/d00573543954f95d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:16 pm
From: "editor@netpath.net"

Wake The Fuck Up. Democrats can't even win statewide elections in
ultraliberal MASSACHUSETTS anymore - as the in-the-streets Tea Parties
proved to be the tip of a huge iceberg of public anger against Obama,
Obamacare, and Obamaism.

http://www.Internet-Gun-Show.com - your source for hard-to-find stuff!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Forte down again, trying Eternal-September
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5a7cf73661cbc3eb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Feb 5 2010 9:04 pm
From: Steve Ackman

In <hki64c$uin$1@news.eternal-september.org>, on Fri, 05 Feb 2010 17:34:32
-0500, Wes, clutch@lycos.com wrote:
> Yes, this is a test. Thanks Steve.

Hey!!! They have test groups for that, you know! ;-)

--
☯☯

==============================================================================

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Friday, February 5, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 12 topics - digest

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