twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 12 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
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Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Wobble in Clausing variable speed drive
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/4e30c5b2b294bb3d?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:24 pm
From: Wes

Ignoramus11495 <ignoramus11495@NOSPAM.11495.invalid> wrote:

>A little update on this. I believe that I have the "full picture".
>
>1. The motor shaft is completely straight (no surprise)
>The fit between the lower inner pulley hub and the motor shaft is not
>good and, therefore, the said hub does not want to sit straight.
>
>This accounts only for a smaller part of vibration.
>
>2. The hydraulic stuff sits on a long 3/8" shaft, which is held in the
>lower outer pulley half by a bushing and retaining ring. Retaining
>ring sits in a circle in the sald pulley half. A part of the cast iron
>rim on this half is gone and the retaining ring was broken. The
>bushing had a lot of wear near the retaining ring and the whole thing
>vibrated a lot. I believe that eventually vibration would destroy
>everything.
>
>I ordered the retaining ring. I asked Clausing how much it is to
>replace the shaft with bushing. If the shaft/bushing is affordable, I
>will just buy it, if not, I can make the replacement on the
>lathe/mill, it is not complicated.
>
>i

Did you ever post pictures?

Wes

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:56 pm
From: Ignoramus11495

On 2010-02-09, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:
> Ignoramus11495 <ignoramus11495@NOSPAM.11495.invalid> wrote:
>
>>A little update on this. I believe that I have the "full picture".
>>
>>1. The motor shaft is completely straight (no surprise)
>>The fit between the lower inner pulley hub and the motor shaft is not
>>good and, therefore, the said hub does not want to sit straight.
>>
>>This accounts only for a smaller part of vibration.
>>
>>2. The hydraulic stuff sits on a long 3/8" shaft, which is held in the
>>lower outer pulley half by a bushing and retaining ring. Retaining
>>ring sits in a circle in the sald pulley half. A part of the cast iron
>>rim on this half is gone and the retaining ring was broken. The
>>bushing had a lot of wear near the retaining ring and the whole thing
>>vibrated a lot. I believe that eventually vibration would destroy
>>everything.
>>
>>I ordered the retaining ring. I asked Clausing how much it is to
>>replace the shaft with bushing. If the shaft/bushing is affordable, I
>>will just buy it, if not, I can make the replacement on the
>>lathe/mill, it is not complicated.
>>
>>i
>
> Did you ever post pictures?
>
> Wes

I thin that I never did, but I have them, here

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Clausing-6913-Lathe/06-Variable-Speed-Drive-Wobble/

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 3:20 pm
From: Wes

Ignoramus11495 <ignoramus11495@NOSPAM.11495.invalid> wrote:

>On 2010-02-09, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:
>> Ignoramus11495 <ignoramus11495@NOSPAM.11495.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>A little update on this. I believe that I have the "full picture".
>>>
>>>1. The motor shaft is completely straight (no surprise)
>>>The fit between the lower inner pulley hub and the motor shaft is not
>>>good and, therefore, the said hub does not want to sit straight.
>>>
>>>This accounts only for a smaller part of vibration.
>>>
>>>2. The hydraulic stuff sits on a long 3/8" shaft, which is held in the
>>>lower outer pulley half by a bushing and retaining ring. Retaining
>>>ring sits in a circle in the sald pulley half. A part of the cast iron
>>>rim on this half is gone and the retaining ring was broken. The
>>>bushing had a lot of wear near the retaining ring and the whole thing
>>>vibrated a lot. I believe that eventually vibration would destroy
>>>everything.
>>>
>>>I ordered the retaining ring. I asked Clausing how much it is to
>>>replace the shaft with bushing. If the shaft/bushing is affordable, I
>>>will just buy it, if not, I can make the replacement on the
>>>lathe/mill, it is not complicated.
>>>
>>>i
>>
>> Did you ever post pictures?
>>
>> Wes
>
>I think that I never did, but I have them, here
>
>http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Clausing-6913-Lathe/06-Variable-Speed-Drive-Wobble/

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Clausing-6913-Lathe/06-Variable-Speed-Drive-Wobble/06-Variable-Speed-Drive-Wobble-6386.jpg.html

That looks like the snap ring groove is partialy busted out. That would cause grief. Some
idjit tried to move the sheaves when the drive system wasn't running.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Clausing-6913-Lathe/06-Variable-Speed-Drive-Wobble/06-Variable-Speed-Drive-Wobble-6387.jpg.html

That isn't pretty. It looks like the key cut into the left side of your motor side
pulley. Is that so?

What is the key way condition of?
http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Clausing-6913-Lathe/06-Variable-Speed-Drive-Wobble/06-Variable-Speed-Drive-Wobble-6379.jpg.html

Wes

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TOPIC: Low speeds - any disadvantages?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6bc7cd3f77e41b75?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:27 pm
From: Peter Fairbrother

Jon Elson wrote:

> If you are going to be doing a lot of metric threads, having to back up
> for every threading pass will drive you round the bend!

I usually do that as standard practice.

You have to withdraw the cutter anyway, and running for a second or so
in reverse is not significantly harder than winding the carriage handle
- and then you don't have to bother with the thread dial indicator at all :)

-- Peter Fairbrother

The transposing
> gears get you proper feeds, but with an imperial leadscrew, you cannot
> disengage the leadscrew between passes.
>
> Jon

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:55 pm
From: Bob Minchin

Dave H. wrote:
> "basilisk" wrote...
>>
>>>
>> The slow speed will be of a concern with small parts, but it may be
>> possible to increase
>> the motor sheave size or even drive the motor with a vfd.
>>
>> I'm not familiar with this particular lathe but one other concern might be
>> the minimum
>> feed speed, some of the older slow lathes wouldn't feed less than .010",
>> (even much more in big machines) , it may be tedious to do fine finish
>> work.
>> YMMV, and for the price it would still be a good deal.
>>
>
> On investigation of the plate on the machine, the sliding (carriage?) feeds
> run from 2 thou/rev upwards, the surfacing (cross-slide?) from 0.7 thou (but
> see below) - I assume this should be OK for most purposes, can't imagine
> having tools with much less of a tip radius!
>
> I like the VFD idea, although it's fitted with what looks to be a 2HP 240v
> motor - I guess that could be driven with a single-phase VFD if such a thing
> exists?
>
> I went to take a look this evening, the ways look to be in pretty good order
> and there weren't any really offensive noises - the head and QC gears all
> looked pretty good (no chipped/missing teeth, not particularly worn) - the
> spindle bearings *might* be a little sloppy, but it appears to have taper
> rollers there so it could be just a matter of getting the preload right?
> Certainly when the clutch was disengaged it took a fair few seconds to spin
> back down from 120 rpm or so (with a hefty 10" 3-jaw chuck on it), so not
> on the tight side :o) It looks like as a minimum the 127 tooth gear's there,
> along with 3-jaw, faceplate, tailstock chucks and centres, plus an
> assortment of tools/bits, holders and the thread-dial: There is a problem
> with the feed selection lever / clutch though, but it looks like all the
> bits are there to work with, and the steadies have disappeared in to the
> same black hole as the handbook and the 4-jaw chuck...
>
> It's a bit bigger than I was expecting - New Shed time, perhaps
>
> It's starting to look like I may have to buy a *big* bunch of roses (and a
> bigger bottle of bubbly) for Sunday, and promise SWMBO that her trike will
> be one of the first projects... Aaaaarghhh.
>
> Thanks for the input,
> Dave H.
Single phase motors cannot be run from a VFD only three phase motors are
suitable.

Bob

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 3:15 pm
From: Chillybilly

I too do bits for bikes ,i have a fully metric trick as you like
Harrison 11" top speed 800 with a pulley mod ,can get down as low as
about 1.5mm dia in most stuff but it can be frustrating at times ,so
go pick up one of thise micro lathes from Arc euro ,strip it sort it
and it will be nicely under the bench ready for that carb jet or silly
size pin that will inevitibly be required.
I have no connection with arc euro .

As to metric /imperial question i have an imperial mill and a metric
lathe so i just have to be careful somtimes ,reckon its quite good to
be able to do stuff in either size ,certainly the way they trained us
when i did my time ,enjoy your big iron !!

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TOPIC: O.T. Toyota accelerator pics and explanations
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/82fad38f9e6d93d6?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:28 pm
From: F. George McDuffee

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:00:24 -0600, F. George McDuffee
<gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
<snip>
>I am composing a letter on this to my Congress persons which I
>will post to the NGs in case anyone wants to use it.
<snip>
=========
If anyone is interested here is the letter.

To identify your representative/senators and use their web mail
goto http://house.gov/ and http://senate.gov/

Letter is too long to send as is to the White House, so you will
need to edit.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

----- start -----
The specific difficulty to which I am referring is the series of
Toyota vehicle management problems, known to include
acceleration, braking, and now [power] steering. All of these
seem to be related to the "drive by wire" computerized vehicle
control system. Unfortunately, there are very probably many more
such difficulties that have not yet been identified, or which
have been "stonewalled" by the regulators and/or the
manufacturers.

THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DESERVE FAR BETTER THAN THEY ARE GETTING FOR
THEIR TAX DOLLARS. In too many cases they are paying twice.
First in money for governmental services not received, and then
with their lives, blood and property when these services are not
provided.

Two old sayings appear to summarize this entire class of
problems.
(1) God helps those who help themselves; and
(2) When you need a helping hand, try the end of your arm.

THE IMPORTANT THING IS THIS PROJECT NOT GET BOGGED DOWN IN
ENDLESS DEBATE AND WRANGLING ABOUT THE DATA LAYOUT/CODING OR
EQUIPMENT PROCUREMENT. PEOPLE ARE DYING BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF
THIS INFORMATION AND ACTION.

Rather than belaboring the details of this particular (Toyota)
situation, I propose a more complete solution.

PROBLEM STATEMENT: The problem is that vehicle defects and
"anomalies" are generally not detected and acted on until there
is a crisis or disaster. By this time the cost to correct is
astronomical, and considerable loss of life, personal injury and
property damage has already occurred.

WHAT IS REQUIRED: An "early warning system" to allow immediate
voluntary corrective action to be taken, backed up by heavy fines
and criminal sanctions for inaction.

A news article from Reuters indicates that as early as 2007 the
State Farm Insurance Company had detected trends/cluster in their
claims data. As a courtesy, they informed NHTSA BUT NO
REGULATORY ACTION WAS TAKEN.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE61751H20100208

This will be a minimal cost outlay project, QUITE POSSIBLY
REQUIRING NO ADDITIONAL FUNDING, but rather the redeployment of
existing assets/personnel from less critical tasks. Even with
full allocation and burden, the total cost should not exceed
100,000$US nor require more than a few (6) months to fully
implement. While I am not a computer systems analyst or data
base administrator, it appears that one or at most a few highline
PCS with a few terabyte drives should be adequate as LAN servers
and high-normal PCs should be adequate as work stations.

While a Presidential "finding" or directive could well accomplish
the following items, it is suggested that Congress pass emergency
legislation, with criminal sanctions for failure to implement, to
mandate the following:

Note that NHTSA may already be receiving much of this data, but
is simply warehousing rather than processing it.

(1) Mandate by law that the major vehicle insurance companies
provide NHTSA with weekly copies of their claims databases in
machine-readable format. To start, the companies would also be
required to provide copies of their historical claims records in
machine-readable format for as far back as these are available.
The required infrastructure for this data transmission already
exists in the form of the Internet. Some slight one-time
programming expense may be incurred at NTSA to translate the
submitted files into a common NHTSA data format/coding.

(2) Mandate by law that the vehicle manufactures/importers
supply NHTSA with listings by VIN numbers showing the OEM
equipment and accessories [such as electronic power steering] and
critical components such as tires [e.g. Ford Explorers]. Again,
some slight one-time startup expense may be incurred to translate
into a common NHTSA format.

(3) Combine the data from items (1) and (2) into a master NHTSA
database, and use existing common statistical techniques for
cluster/trend analysis, "pattern matching" and "data mining."
The required software is widely available commercially, and other
governmental agencies such as NSA could be asked to provide their
expertise.

(4) Use the findings from (3) to advise the vehicle and
component/accessory manufacturers of actual and potential
problems (clusters, patterns and trends) as soon as these are
detected, with public announcement of the findings, possibly with
a 30 to 90 day delay, to allow agency/manufacturer investigation
and/or corrective action. Item (4) is where significant fines
and/or criminal sanctions may well be required to insure
continued and timely action.

Given the actual and potential loss of life, personal injury and
property damage involved, and the minimal expense, a reply would
be appreciated.
---- end----

Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:45 pm
From: Wes

Don Foreman <dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:08:12 -0500, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>>Don Foreman <dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>>
>>>What
>>>the hell, today is my 68th birthday, I'm a certified oldfart.
>>
>>But you are young in spirit. That is what counts.
>>
>>Happy Birthday!
>>
>Thanks! I was thinkin' about those Toyota technicians working under
>the dash on the accelerators all day. Man, I'm glad I don't have to
>do that. My body hurts just thinkin' about it.

I used to have to work on, as replace, components of the F4-J's radar that were located in
the cockpits. Roomy is the word if the comparison is to the typical modern compact or sub
compact automobile.

>I am thinking about trying some IDPA match shooting. My old friend
>and colleague Jack is too, so we may egg each other on. It looks like
>it might be a lot of fun, and after watching some Youtube videos I
>think I could try it without embarrassing myself too badly.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAT4QPrHy0c

I shot IDPA for a few years and I enjoyed it a lot. Conflicts with my work schedule
caused me to stop but someday, I'll be doing it again. I've shot High Power, PPC,
Bullesye, and IDPA, I have to say IDPA was the most fun. High Power coming in second. The
club has a 600 year range.

>
>Shoot, I could do that, it looks like a lot of fun and a level of
>physical activity that I could handle and enjoy. The guy in the video
>certainly does display outstanding muzzle control as in recoil
>management. As the HR direktorchik might say, I may have a growth
>opportunity in that regard. I don't know what I look like when
>shooting. I do tend to hit my targets but good recoil control helps to
>deliver fire on target more rapidly and time is a factor in IDPA.
>All I'd need to buy would be an inexpensive holster and a carry
>garment or vest. I'm not real good at deliberate slowfire bullseye
>shooting with handguns because when I focus on the front sight the
>target is a vague blur to these old eyes, but I'm not half bad at
>pointed rapid fire of respectable calibers at tactical-type targets at
>tactical ranges of 25 yards and less. I need to work on longer ranges.
>Jack is amazing at ranges out to 100 yards with handgun.

We had a member of the club that is a double amputee due to his service in Viet Nam. We
put conveyor belting placed strategically so he could shoot and work the scenario from his
wheel chair. He was pretty darn good.
>
>Don't judge the guy in the video for his clumsy performance in
>changing magazines until you've tried it. I made that part of my
>practice last summer. It's not difficult to get it quick and sure but
>it definitely does take some practice with each particular handgun.

I know the challenges. I had one day when I was on. I took my shots, knew I was on my
last, switched to one hand since the range was close, thumbed the mag release in recoil as
my weak hand reached for a mag. Like magic, my left met my pistol in rebound, the mag
slid in, and I released the slide to chamber and took my next shot. The range officer was
impressed.

I've never been that smooth again but I know it can be done.
>
>I'm pretty sure I'd be the oldest guy there and Jack would be the
>second oldest.

Age is not a serious handicap in this. A number of our serious high power shooters
changed to IDPA when their rifle shooting skills using iron sights at long ranges
declined. They held their own quite well.

Wes

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:58 pm
From: F. George McDuffee

On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:14:01 -0600, RBnDFW <burkheimer@gmail.com>
wrote:
<snip>
>> I am composing a letter on this to my Congress persons which I
>> will post to the NGs in case anyone wants to use it.
>
>George, that is the same agency that screwed up the Firestone/Ford
>Explorer tire debacle using just such a database. You cannot trust a
>government agency with facts, or even statistics.
<snip>
=============
Then at the bottom this is not an automotive problem but a
systemic regulatory problem. IMNSHO one of the quickest and most
certain ways to cure this type of systemic problem is a few high
profile firings or in the old days a few public hangings.

A few ranking NHTSA people pulling 3 to 5 at Allenwood or one of
our other fine Federal correctional facilities [with loss of
pension benefits] for involuntary manslaughter would have worked
wonders.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How many layers of oil paint
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/41f7ccd7ea60daf5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:29 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Richard J Kinch" <kinch@truetex.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D1AAC88F93Csomeconundrum@216.196.97.131...
> Steve Lusardi writes:
>
>> The main advantage to any 2 part paint is that they cure, not dry. In
>> that light, they are not stressed and resist chipping far better than
>> any conventional paint,
>
> This is not true; they all "cure" in that they form polymer films from
> monomers. Epoxy "curing" (polymerization) is triggered by the addition of
> a catalyst. Latex (emulsion) curing is triggered by the breaking of the
> emulsion caused by water or solvent evaporation. In oil paints curing is
> triggered by the oxygen in the air. But they all form cross-linked
> polymer
> films. They don't "dry" like mud turning into dirt. Linseed oil versus
> epoxy are different polymers with very different resistance to solvents,
> but they are both just polymers.
>
> Paint is a superstitious item to most people. They have no idea how paint
> works beyond the label on the can, or what is different about various
> types. They think paint "dries", and that "latex" paint has something to
> do
> with rubber. For all we spend on public schooling, this is a shame, that
> such a practical bit of chemistry is not taught. Of course paints are an
> ancient item and you don't have to understand chemistry to use them, just
> to optimize their use.

Oil paints and latex paints, as well as conventional drying lacquers, etc.,
have a considerable amount of solvent that evaporates, leaving the surface
of the coating in tension. They generally chip easier than two-part-curing
epoxies and polyurethanes.

However, not all epoxies and polyurethanes are "100% solids." (A misnomer,
but that's what they're sometimes called.) They often contain solvents, too.
As for resisting chipping, two-part polyurethanes, in general, are far more
chip-resistant than epoxies.

At least they were, the last time I had to research and write about them,
which was a couple of decades ago.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT Blue Cross
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/a073a2f724d12551?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:31 pm
From: Jim Stewart

steamer wrote:
> --Well now that the balance in congress has been tipped and
> everyone's been safely bought off, sure enough Blue Cross has raised my
> rates: 22% this time; total's now $23,000/yr. I need customers or a new line
> of work! I'd be curious to know if anyone's got group coverage thru AWS or
> any other industry group and what your experience has been with them..

I've had Kaiser for 30 years. I'm 58 years old
and I pay $458/month. The copay is high, but we
fund an HSA account for $1500 a year and that will
cover all the copays for us plus eyeglasses.

Works out to $7000 a year, less than 1/3 what
you're paying.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 3:13 pm
From: F. George McDuffee

On 09 Feb 2010 21:07:27 GMT, steamer <steamer@sonic.net> wrote:

> --Well now that the balance in congress has been tipped and
>everyone's been safely bought off, sure enough Blue Cross has raised my
>rates: 22% this time; total's now $23,000/yr. I need customers or a new line
>of work! I'd be curious to know if anyone's got group coverage thru AWS or
>any other industry group and what your experience has been with them..
==========
Like the carnival owner said "I mitted the shamus*, so Let'er
rip....." [obscure American slang for bribing local law
enforcement]

Only 22%!

Anthem Blue Cross has told some {est. 800k} customers it will
raise their health insurance premiums as much as 39 percent
beginning March 1.
http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/2516013.html

http://www.sacbee.com/296/story/2522895.html
<snip>
Sebelius said Anthem Blue Cross' parent company, WellPoint Inc.,
"has seen its profits soar, earning $2.7 billion in the last
quarter of 2009 alone."
<snip>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 3:30 pm
From: Wes

F. George McDuffee <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:

>Sebelius said Anthem Blue Cross' parent company, WellPoint Inc.,
>"has seen its profits soar, earning $2.7 billion in the last
>quarter of 2009 alone."

What is that number as a percentage of reciepts?

Wes

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Any reason
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0c717d3b9cd07881?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:38 pm
From: "dcaster@krl.org"

On Feb 9, 8:38 pm, "Bob La Londe" <nos...@nospam.no> wrote:
> Is there any reason why the gantry has to move on a CNC router?
> Just thinking out loud.

I bought a book at a garage sale or thrift store entitled "Three
Dimensional Trimming and Machining " Subtitle is " The Five Axis CNC
Router." You might be able to find a copy at ABE or Amazon. It might
stimulate more thoughts.

Dan

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:59 pm
From: Wes

"Bob La Londe" <nospam@nospam.no> wrote:

>Is there any reason why the gantry has to move on a CNC router? Seems to me
>you could get a lot more rigidity by moving the table along one horizontal
>axis instead. Then just move your Z axis assembly along the gantry for the
>other horizontal axis, but have the gantry solidly bolted to your table
>base. I realize it will take up more room when working this way, but that's
>no different than a mill.
>
>Just thinking out loud.
>
>
>

We had a Asi Accucell that worked that way. It was a waterjet cutting system (non
abrasive).

http://archive.dovebid.com/brochure/bro998.pdf

I'm shocked that dovebid has this auction pdf still up.

Page 3 shows a 2 axis motion system that drove an injection head between both presses. I
built that many years ago in house.

Page 5 shows a Accucell with two y,z,a,b heads. They should not have put them on the same
framework. I always wanted to cut it in half to keep motion from one side affecting the
other side. Accell/decell effects tended to show up randomly in each sides work.

The Fanuc robot based assembly and waterjeting systems I built are not shown. GM managed
to buy them for a price less than the cost of the light curtains on them before the
auction.

Wes

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cheater's Notes
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/575dd2a6a3913041?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:40 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 9, 9:06 am, Jeff M <nos...@nothanks.org> wrote:
> No-bammer wrote:
> > Cliff wrote:
> >> http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978036226
> >> "Sarah Palin Reads Cheat Notes Off Her Hand:"
> >> [
> >> This would be funny if it weren't also pretty sad:
> >>http://beltwayblips.dailyradar.com/video/sarah-palin-reads-cheat-note...
>
> >> She had to do this, despite only accepting pre-approved questions.
> >> And there
> >> are actually human beings walking around who think she should be
> >> President.
> >> Wow...E
> >> ]
>
> > What notes. Looked like subjects to talk about without any help from a
> > teleprompter. Liberal are truly ignorant fools. Buckwheat has a lot more
> > than subjects wrote down on his teleprompter. Buckwheat could have had
> > any number of subjects wrote down on hand, paper etc. and he still
> > wouldn't have known what to say without his teleprompter.
>
> It's funny how some Rightards will buy into this sort of spin. Ignorant
> people who are so gullible and eager to unquestioningly swallow and
> regurgitate lies and spin, such as the birther scam, which is why
> corporate manipulation of the electorate with sophisticated and heavily
> funded media campaigns is such a worry. Slickly packaged and endlessly
> repeated lies will drown out both truth and reason, being far more
> palatable and digestible to the intellectually hapless and easily misled
> voters they are targeted to, i.e., those who are simply unprepared and
> unequipped to sort out the facts from the coming tidal wave of lies.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well said.

And right on target.

TMT

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:41 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 9, 11:04 am, "Steve B" <deserttra...@fishmail.net> wrote:
> "Tater Gumfries" <ta...@kernsholler.net> wrote in message
>
> news:bf627b5c-82bd-4341-9e9d-02552e13021b@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 8, 4:03 pm, "Sid9" <s...@belsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > Sarah "Palm Pilot" read her entire speech word for word from paper on the
> > lectern.
>
> Typically, that's what Obama does too -- read his speech. Difference
> is, he can speak intelligently off the cuff too. Imagine Palin having
> a sit down with Democrats askin her hard questions.
>
> Tater
>
> I've heard him speak "off the cuff". I hear very little intelligence there.
> I hear very little original thought. Clichés and verbose combinations of
> words that are just Newspeak.
>
> Here's my take on sitting the two of them down for hard questions. Palin
> would answer as a normal person, maybe not the most eloquent of the two.
> Buckwheat would go on into the ozone on literary painting trips, splashing
> his literary pallet all over the place, except on the answer.
>
> Steve

Your lack of education is showing.

TMT

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:42 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 9, 10:19 am, grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)
wrote:
> Tater Gumfries <ta...@kernsholler.net> wrote in news:bf627b5c-82bd-4341-9e9d-
> 02552e130...@l26g2000yqd.googlegroups.com:
>
> > On Feb 8, 4:03 pm, "Sid9" <s...@belsouth.net> wrote:
>
> >> Sarah "Palm Pilot" read her entire speech word for word from paper on the
> >> lectern.
>
> > Typically, that's what Obama does too -- read his speech. Difference
> > is, he can speak intelligently off the cuff too. Imagine Palin having
> > a sit down with Democrats askin her hard questions.
>
> > Tater
>
> Ask him to pronounce "corpsman". IMO he sounded about as stupid and
> uneducated as an inner city dropout.
>
> --
> God, guns and guts made America great.
>
> And Janet Napolitano nervous.
>
> Which should tell you all you need to know about Democrats. How can one
> restore America to greatness if greatness makes you uncomfortable?

Ever hear Bush speak?

The world laughed at him...and us.

TMT

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 3:30 pm
From: Poetic Justice

On 2/9/2010 5:05 PM, Burled Frau wrote:
>
>
> "Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
> news:ngr2n5p32ufo8kafacnakkkdbn7tsjfvug@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 09 Feb 2010 08:54:19 -0500, "lab~rat >:-)" <chase@cheeze.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 21:19:00 -0600, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com>
>>> puked:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:04:35 -0700, Winston_Smith <not_real@bogus.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Sarah Palin Reads Cheat Notes Off Her Hand:"
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah, yes. Palin again. Just what is your fascination with her?
>>>>>
>>>>> Could it simply be that she is a good foil to take the heat of 0bama's
>>>>> meltdown?
>>>>
>>>> Nah..she's just fucking hilarious!
>>>
>>> Agree completely
>>>
>>> http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/sarahpalin/ig/Sarah-Palin-Pictures/Palin-Hi-Mom-Hand-Note.0zq0.htm
>>>
>>
>> How stupid.
>> --
>> Cliff
>
> What's so stupid about it, TMT has it written on both of his hands.

Obama's so stupid he had to have his name tattooed inside his eye lids...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rep John Murtha ( democrat ) Dies
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c7bed364474d0278?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:41 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Husky" <cynsguy@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2fdc553c-30a5-4868-a16d-2f325629ae44@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...

>When you stop hiding under your mommy's bed, Go play Russian Roulette
>with an automatic.

What's an "automatic"?

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 3:08 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Buerste" <buerste@wowway.com> wrote in message
news:6wlcn.92083$1m3.60681@newsfe11.iad...
>
> "Husky" <cynsguy@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2fdc553c-30a5-4868-a16d-2f325629ae44@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>When you stop hiding under your mommy's bed, Go play Russian Roulette
>>with an automatic.
>
> What's an "automatic"?

That's what they called a semiautomatic when you were in diapers. Sometimes
called an autoloader.

--
Ed Huntress

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 3:25 pm
From: Wes

"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:

>
>"Buerste" <buerste@wowway.com> wrote in message
>news:6wlcn.92083$1m3.60681@newsfe11.iad...
>>
>> "Husky" <cynsguy@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:2fdc553c-30a5-4868-a16d-2f325629ae44@c4g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>When you stop hiding under your mommy's bed, Go play Russian Roulette
>>>with an automatic.
>>
>> What's an "automatic"?
>
>That's what they called a semiautomatic when you were in diapers. Sometimes
>called an autoloader.

I wasn't very thrilled with Murtha in his later years. But for his earlier years, I'd
like to signify my respect for his service before he got into politics.

Wes

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rep. John Murtha, American Hero, voice for veterans, dies at 77
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/9448916e52058cac?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:43 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Larry Graham" <Slyandthefamily@bass.gov> wrote in message
news:4b71d9f6$0$31262$607ed4bc@cv.net...

Larry, don't waste your time with him, he's just a troll.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: fa: ionized air anyone?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7e864b4e0e6abcf3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:46 pm
From: Beryl

doc wrote:
> On Feb 7, 8:54 pm, Beryl <fo...@road.net> wrote:
>> Bill Noble wrote:
>>> Picked this unit up for a filter that was attached to it - perhaps some
>>> of you folks need super clean ionized air?
>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300394900716
>> I had an Ionic Breeze air purifier. It killed my parakeets.
>
> Ozone is known to be toxic. And I gather that birds do have more
> sensitive lungs. Some info here: http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww23ev.htm
> You can dig around for more.

I did find info about ozone and birds, after it was too late. The paper
included with the poison gas emitter only briefly mentioned ozone (about
one sentence) as causing the clean fresh smell after a thunderstorm.

> I use this style of air purifier to get rid of foul :-) smells
> mainly.
> Does a great job. Just wouldn't want to have any living critters
> in the room when the machine is pumping ozone.

Same room, only about 10 feet between their cage and the death machine.
Thanks so much, Sharper Image.

Whoever buys Bill's unit, DON'T breathe the output.

> DOC
> Something about robots...
> http://www.robot-one.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Compliments of Faux
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/bf5d1c586af24612?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 2:49 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:1hl2n5l6mgippkplsv8nc69nl0u9n7vjpm@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 11:05:52 -0500, the infamous "Buerste"
> <buerste@wowway.com> scrawled the following:
>
>>
>>"Gerald Abrahamson" <jerryab@visi.com> wrote in message
>>news:6oa0n5pf9hasjmk5l24j7ckfnqrt23qk8f@4ax.com...
>><snip>
>>
>>> CBS had problems with Pat Paulsen--and they did NOT build a
>>> studio for him to run for President of the United States.
>>> And Palin is not as well-qualified for the position.
>>
>>Infinitely better qualified than President Wee-Wee.
>
> Wee-Wee?
>
> --
> We don't receive wisdom; we must discover it for ourselves
> after a journey that no one can take for us or spare us.
> -- Marcel Proust

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/26328.html

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2009/08/weeweed_up_white_house_explain.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT- Product Of The YEAR! -Somebody Should Get A Nobel Prize For This-
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5f763679111ec221?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Feb 9 2010 3:00 pm
From: Rich Grise on Google groups

On Feb 7, 5:27 am, David Billington
<d...@djbillington.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> ...
> What does this do for you thenhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/content/image_galleries/wiltshire_live...
> , Swindons "Magic Roundabout". I've not driven it recently but I
> understand it can still give drivers used to roundabouts a problem.

I find it vaguely reminiscient of a neuron, with dendrites and
axons...

Cheers!
Rich

==============================================================================

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 12 topics - digest

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