comp.lang.c - 26 new messages in 10 topics - digest

comp.lang.c
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Today's topics:

* parsing practice - 4 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/69eefd7d02a113a3?hl=en
* Has thought been given given to a cleaned up C? Possibly called C+. - 10
messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/5954dc70a43f9f8e?hl=en
* ★☆★☆Free shipping Discount Nike Air Max 90, Nike Air Max LTD,Nike Air Max TN,
Nike Dunk Sneakers Paypal payment (www.vipchinatrade.com) - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/957ca682706e5bff?hl=en
* how to get out of double for loops? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/535cb24e8f02aec3?hl=en
* ◆⊙◆⊙◆ Cheap price wholesale A&F Jacket, Bape Jacket, ED Hardy Jacket ect at
website: http://www.rijing-trade.com <Paypal Payment> - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/9506d35d70f48f20?hl=en
* Letter sent to Apress with concerns about Peter Seebach's online behavior -
1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/482b38643777da3c?hl=en
* Best way/library to draw individual pixels on screen? (for - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/bf4e0288d8537985?hl=en
* ANNOUNCE: WinGDB - debugging with GDB under Visual Studio - 4 messages, 3
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/caa9b97bbee41cd4?hl=en
* An interview question - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/c93105672f793e63?hl=en
* Beginner's guide to MinGW? - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/e2cff1c3cf36ab5f?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: parsing practice
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/69eefd7d02a113a3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 12:15 am
From: Nick <3-nospam@temporary-address.org.uk>

"Bill Cunningham" <nospam@nspam.invalid> writes:

> This simple little program takes from stdin and writes to stdout.

No it doesn't. It never touches stdin.

It uses the parameters passed in argv, but that's nothing at all to do
with "taking from stdin".
--
Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu
Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 12:36 am
From: "Robbie Hatley"

"Bill Cunningham" wrote:

> #include <stdio.h>
> #include <string.h>
>
> int main(int argc, char *argv[])
> {
> if (argc == 0) {
> fprintf(stderr, "parsing usage error\n");
> return 1;
> }
> if (*argv[1] == '+') {
> puts("good + found\n");
> return 0;
> } else {
> if (*argv[1] != '+') {
> fputs("error + not found\n", stderr);
> return 1;
> }
> return 0;
>
> }
> return 0;
> }

According to section 5.1.2.2.1 of the C standard:
- argc must be non-negative
- argv[argc] must be a null pointer
- if argc is greater than zero, then argv[0] is NOT an argument,
it's the name of the program, or an empty string if the program
name is not available.
- if argc is greater than one, argv[1] through argv[argc-1]
will be your program parameters.

In other words, argc is "count of items in argv", NOT "count of
arguments". And since the zeroeth element of argc is always
reserved for the program name (whether it's available or not),
if argc is non-zero, argc = "number of arguments + 1".

(The standard doesn't mention under what conditions argc
is 0. I've never seen argc==0 in my life. I suppose
a compiler that doesn't support arguments could set it
to 0 to indicate that arguments aren't supported.)

In practice, if there are no arguments, argc will usually be 1.

If argc is 1, your first "if" will fail, and your second
"if" will cause an ILLEGAL MEMORY ACCESS at runtime.

Hence the first "if" should read:

if (argc < 2) {
fprintf(stderr, "parsing usage error\n");
return 1;
}

Insisting that argc be at least 2 is the only way to insure
that referencing "argv[1]" is legal.

--
Cheers,
Robbie Hatley
lonewolf at well dot com
www dot well dot com slant tilde lonewolf slant

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 1:49 am
From: James Harris

On 10 Mar, 23:38, James Harris <james.harri...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> On 10 Mar, 23:30, "Bill Cunningham" <nos...@nspam.invalid> wrote:
>
> > "Ike Naar" <i...@localhost.claranet.nl> wrote in message
>
> >news:hn9895$6f2$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > > For the next line to work, argc should be at least 2;
> > > nonzero is not good enough.
>
> >     I'm not quite understanding here. "Nonzero is not good enough." If there
> > are no argc's I want the program to terminate with the "usage error" error.
> > As long as it is nonzero I am happy. I'm stuck on this one.
>
> Try an experiment to find how your program is started:
>
> int main(int argc, char *argv[]) {
>   printf("argc = %d\n", argc);
>
> }
>
> Try running this with a varying number of arguments to see how argc is
> calculated. Then you can add a loop to print the argv values. This
> should help you see how the arg values are used - which should resolve
> your original problem.

An additional point: if you write the above code to print the args
keep it handy as you will be able to use it to find out

- how arguments are delimited
- how argv[0] appears when the command is
- in the path and found implicitly
- explicitly specified
- what happens if you put an argument in quotes
- what happens when you use backslashes before spaces
- what happens when you put backslashes elswehere
- what happens when you use wild cards in arguments
- etc

When run in the appropriate environment it will also show any
differences between the way Unix and Windows handle command line
arguments.

Seeing what's going on is an aid to understanding.

James

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 2:29 am
From: Nick Keighley

On 10 Mar, 22:50, "Bill Cunningham" <nos...@nspam.invalid> wrote:

>     This simple little program takes from stdin and writes to stdout. No
> other streams are involved. Why am I segmentation faulting? I am guessing [...]

<snip>

why? Why are you guessing? Why don't you debug the program? Use a
debugger or put in printf()s or use assert()s

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Has thought been given given to a cleaned up C? Possibly called C+.
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/5954dc70a43f9f8e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 12:39 am
From: Phil Carmody

(Sorry, have to drop .moderated, as for some unknown reason GNUS refuses
to post there.)

Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> writes:
> Thomas Richter <thor@math.tu-berlin.de> writes:
>> Flash Gordon wrote:
> [...]
>>> My experience is that operator overloading leads to confusion for
>>> experienced users.
>
> It certainly can.
>
>> In most cases, it should be avoided. The C++ overloading of >> and <<
>> for IO operations is definitely a pretty bad idea. There are rare
>> cases where it does make sense because the operator has a very natural
>> meaning (vector addition, matrix multiplication). It is a feature that
>> should be used with care. But >> and << for I/O is not one of them.
>
> I don't agree. It's an arbitrary choice of symbol that does have
> some mnemonic value; the arrow indicates the direction in which
> the data flows.

'Flows', eh?

So in
s >> a >> b >> c;
c flowed out first as it's the furthest from the source?

> It's really no more arbitrary than the original
> choice of >> and << to denote shift operators when they were first
> introduced.
>
> To a C++ programmer, the >> and << operators have a well known
> meaning as I/O operations, perhaps better known than their older
> meaning as shift operations.
>
> If operator overloading were to be added to C, I wouldn't object
> to doing something similar. Though I'd want a cleaner way to
> specify formatting (hexadecimal, field width, etc.) for a single
> item without changing the state of the stream.

Agreed. That was one of many things that turned me from an actively
proselytising C++ programmer in the turn of the 90s, so someone who
now finds laughing and puking the only two options when faced with
C++ code.

While still under the impression that I liked C++, I did write an
alternative to the stream-state-changing warts which was simpler,
and clearer. Definitely nothing they'd ever want in the standard
language at all, then.

Oh, god, gotta rush to the bathroom, I just remembered operator++(int);

Phil
--
I find the easiest thing to do is to k/f myself and just troll away
-- David Melville on r.a.s.f1

== 2 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 12:46 am
From: Phil Carmody

pacman@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) writes:
> In article <4b97b986.17080734@news.xs4all.nl>,
> Richard Bos <rlbos@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> |"bartc" <bartc@freeuk.com> wrote:
> |
> |> jacob navia wrote:
> |> >
> |> > a+b <--> b+a
> |> > a*b <--> b*a
> |>
> |> What do you have against a-b and a/b?
> |
> |And against vector multiplication?
>
> scalar*vector follows the rule just fine. And vector*vector as long as you
> mean dot product. Cross product is exactly where you have gone too far if you
> overload the "*" operator for it.
>
> Matrix multiplication is just crazy. I don't see why the mathematicians
> insist on calling it "multiplication" at all.

Because it is, in that ring. An objection based on non-commutativity
is to me as toothless as an objection based on a ring not being an
integral domain (having zero divisors). Which is toothless.

Phil
--
I find the easiest thing to do is to k/f myself and just troll away
-- David Melville on r.a.s.f1

== 3 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 1:06 am
From: Nick Keighley

On 10 Mar, 18:13, Nick <3-nos...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:

<snip>

> [...] the problem I see with operator overloading is
> that you are stuck with an arbitrary set of operators to work with. If
> you really are just implementing, say, complex numbers or very large
> integers, then it's useful - but you don't do that very often.  This is
> Jacob's position AIUI.  But if you want to do something else you end up
> forcing it into this mould.  This is what tends to happen.

my experience with C++ is the you hardly ever overload the obvious
things like + and * but you do end up defining your own << >> (as
these are used for i/o) and == < = as these are actually useful.

> Really you need to be able to define new operators, even if this is just
> syntactic sugar for functions.  Give them all the same precedence and
> off you go.

Algol-68, of course, allowed you to define precedence as well...

or you go the lisp route and have no operators at all, everythign is a
function

== 4 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 1:22 am
From: "io_x"

"jacob navia" <jacob@spamsink.net> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:hn87db$cbf$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> In general we should have

[Logic OT]

> a+b <--> b+a
> a*b <--> b*a

if that <--> is <=> that above should be ok

> a>b && b>c <--> a>c

this here seems wrong example

4>3 Not(=>) 4>90 && 90>3

this last above could be written as

a>c <=> exist b: a>b && b>c

where a,b,c are reals.

if a,b,c are only integers we have
4>3 but not exist b: 4>b>3
and so
a>b && b>c <--> a>c
and
a>c <=> exist b: a>b && b>c
are not ok for a,b,c integer

it is wrong something?

== 5 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 1:29 am
From: "io_x"

"Keith Thompson" ha scritto nel messaggio
news:clcm-20100310-0028@plethora.net...
>
> If operator overloading were to be added to C, I wouldn't object
> to doing something similar. Though I'd want a cleaner way to
> specify formatting (hexadecimal, field width, etc.) for a single
> item without changing the state of the stream.

why not somethig of this kind
f64 v;
cout << fmt("%4:4f64") << v;

where f64 is one float of 64 bits
that print something about "1234.1234"

I don't like for operator that one can not easily check
if there is some error. So one should write something about

cout << fmt("%4:4f64") << v;
if(cout.error) {printf("\n\n\n Error\n"); abort();}

every output instruction or check each n output lines.
There could be something like this

int function(int)
{on(cout.error) return 38;
int i,j,k;

cout << "first\n";
cout << "second\n";
...
cout << "nth\n";
return 0;
}

where afther each instruction "<instruction>;" that use "cout"
compiler insert the line
if(cout.error) return 38;

but i prefer use goto for that
somethig about
if((cout << fmt("%4:4f64") << v) && cout.error) goto error38;
don't know if it is sufficient
if( (cout << fmt("%4:4f64") << v) == 0) goto error38;

== 6 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 1:27 am
From: Jasen Betts

On 2010-03-10, jacob navia <jacob@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
> Richard Bos a écrit :
>> jacob navia <jacob@spamsink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> My opinion is that C should be developed further, exactly BECAUSE is
>>> a simple language. Adding a container library to C doesn't make the
>>> language any bigger or more complicated but makes programs COMPATIBLE
>>> because it is possible to interchange data with standard API/containers.
>>
>> I'm sorry, but... did you _really_ just write something to the tune of:
>> "C is a simple language. Adding a large, complicated gathering of data
>> structures to it won't make it any bigger and more complicated"?
>>
>> Because if you did, I'd like to know what the French government thinks
>> of the stuff you imported from some "coffee shop" in Amsterdam; and if
>> you didn't, I'd like to know how you can possibly think that any
>> flexible container library that could be good enough to use by the
>> majority of C users could ever _not_ be too large, complicated, and
>> highly over-specced to use.
>>
>> Richard
>
> The container library is around 80K (32 bit machines)
>
> In that space I have
> o lists (double/sinlgle linked)
> o bitstrings
> o AVL trees
> o Red/Black trees
> o Dictionary (Hash tables)
> o Flexible arrays.

can you plug-in another container system
(eg: indexed on-disk storage like libdb )
by writing a wrapper?

--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: news@netfront.net ---
--
comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: clcm@plethora.net -- you must
have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. Sorry.

== 7 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 1:28 am
From: "io_x"

"Keith Thompson" ha scritto nel messaggio
news:clcm-20100310-0028@plethora.net...
> [...]
> To a C++ programmer, the >> and << operators have a well known
> meaning as I/O operations, perhaps better known than their older
> meaning as shift operations.
>
> If operator overloading were to be added to C, I wouldn't object
> to doing something similar. Though I'd want a cleaner way to
> specify formatting (hexadecimal, field width, etc.) for a single
> item without changing the state of the stream.

yes i agree on this above
but i not want to show all you how i resolve above problem
--
comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: clcm@plethora.net -- you must
have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. Sorry.

== 8 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 1:27 am
From: Richard

Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> writes:

> On 10 Mar, 18:13, Nick <3-nos...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> [...] the problem I see with operator overloading is
>> that you are stuck with an arbitrary set of operators to work with. If
>> you really are just implementing, say, complex numbers or very large
>> integers, then it's useful - but you don't do that very often.  This is
>> Jacob's position AIUI.  But if you want to do something else you end up
>> forcing it into this mould.  This is what tends to happen.
>
> my experience with C++ is the you hardly ever overload the obvious

They are overwritten all time and it makes debugging and following
foreign C++ code a nightmare until you are very very very familiar with
the code. And even then in base functions you can have zero idea about
which will be invoked. C++ has lost popularity for a reason : its a
maintenance nightmare.

> things like + and * but you do end up defining your own << >> (as
> these are used for i/o) and == < = as these are actually useful.
>
>> Really you need to be able to define new operators, even if this is just
>> syntactic sugar for functions.  Give them all the same precedence and
>> off you go.
>
> Algol-68, of course, allowed you to define precedence as well...

Oh for goodness sake. Stop mentioning Algol. It's gone.
>
> or you go the lisp route and have no operators at all, everythign is a
> function

--
"Avoid hyperbole at all costs, its the most destructive argument on
the planet" - Mark McIntyre in comp.lang.c

== 9 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 1:43 am
From: "io_x"

"io_x" <a@b.c.invalid> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:4b98b604$0$1122$4fafbaef@reader3.news.tin.it...
>
> "Keith Thompson" ha scritto nel messaggio
> news:clcm-20100310-0028@plethora.net...
>>
>> If operator overloading were to be added to C, I wouldn't object
>> to doing something similar. Though I'd want a cleaner way to
>> specify formatting (hexadecimal, field width, etc.) for a single
>> item without changing the state of the stream.
>
> why not somethig of this kind
> f64 v;
> cout << fmt("%4:4f64") << v;
>
> where f64 is one float of 64 bits
> that print something about "1234.1234"
>
> I don't like for operator that one can not easily check
> if there is some error. So one should write something about
>
> cout << fmt("%4:4f64") << v;
> if(cout.error) {printf("\n\n\n Error\n"); abort();}
>
> every output instruction or check each n output lines.
> There could be something like this
>
> int function(int)
> {on(cout.error) return 38;
> int i,j,k;
>
> cout << "first\n";
> cout << "second\n";
> ...
> cout << "nth\n";
> return 0;
> }
>
> where afther each instruction "<instruction>;" that use "cout"
> compiler insert the line
> if(cout.error) return 38;
>
> but i prefer use goto for that
> somethig about
> if((cout << fmt("%4:4f64") << v) && cout.error) goto error38;
> don't know if it is sufficient
> if( (cout << fmt("%4:4f64") << v) == 0) goto error38;

wrong better this
if((cout << fmt("%4:4f64") << v).error) goto error38;

== 10 of 10 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 2:35 am
From: "bartc"

"Richard" <rgrdev_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rlpm67-269.ln1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> On 10 Mar, 18:13, Nick <3-nos...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> [...] the problem I see with operator overloading is
>>> that you are stuck with an arbitrary set of operators to work with. If
>>> you really are just implementing, say, complex numbers or very large
>>> integers, then it's useful - but you don't do that very often. This is
>>> Jacob's position AIUI. But if you want to do something else you end up
>>> forcing it into this mould. This is what tends to happen.
>>
>> my experience with C++ is the you hardly ever overload the obvious
>
> They are overwritten all time and it makes debugging and following
> foreign C++ code a nightmare until you are very very very familiar with
> the code. And even then in base functions you can have zero idea about
> which will be invoked. C++ has lost popularity for a reason : its a
> maintenance nightmare.

My feeling is that operator overloading should not be made available to mere
programmers.

If there are interesting new datatypes for which these operators would be
useful, then build them into the language somehow (or at least mention them
in an addendum to the standard), rather than provide mechanisms to allow
anybody to apply them to anything.

>> things like + and * but you do end up defining your own << >> (as
>> these are used for i/o) and == < = as these are actually useful.
>>
>>> Really you need to be able to define new operators, even if this is just
>>> syntactic sugar for functions. Give them all the same precedence and
>>> off you go.
>>
>> Algol-68, of course, allowed you to define precedence as well...
>
> Oh for goodness sake. Stop mentioning Algol. It's gone.

Algol-68 never really arrived (at least I've never found a working version),
so it can't have gone anywhere.

In that case it is an interesting abstract language to compare ideas with,
or as a model of how to implement, or not implement, a particular feature.

--
Bartc

==============================================================================
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http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/957ca682706e5bff?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 12:49 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: how to get out of double for loops?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/535cb24e8f02aec3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 12:56 am
From: Phil Carmody

Eric Sosman <esosman@ieee-dot-org.invalid> writes:
> On 3/10/2010 9:14 AM, Richard Bos wrote:
>> David Bolt<blacklist-me@davjam.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday 08 Mar 2010 23:34, while playing with a tin of spray paint,
>>> Richard Heathfield painted this mural:
>>>
>>>> Flash Gordon wrote:
>>>>> Eric Sosman wrote:
>>>>>> On 3/8/2010 11:22 AM, lawrence.jones@siemens.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Ben Bacarisse<ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eric's did register on my humour meter but Lawrence is talking a load
>>>>>>>> of mallocs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hey, let's not cast aspersions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ... nor make it an automatic response to dish out this
>>>>>> type of static.
>>>>>
>>>>> if we could break out of this loop it would be good, but we can't while
>>>>> the coding standards forbid it.
>>>>
>>>> Oi! Can't you take an 'int?
>>>
>>> I think a pointer might help us understand the long and short of it.
>>
>> IMO, this entire argument is null and void.
>
> ... serving only to block progress, to limit the scope
> of endeavor, to foul the nest. Participants are dys-functional
> and deserve to be switched.

In that case we should shift onto another topic.

As if...

Phil
--
I find the easiest thing to do is to k/f myself and just troll away
-- David Melville on r.a.s.f1

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ◆⊙◆⊙◆ Cheap price wholesale A&F Jacket, Bape Jacket, ED Hardy Jacket
ect at website: http://www.rijing-trade.com <Paypal Payment>
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/9506d35d70f48f20?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 12:57 am
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Letter sent to Apress with concerns about Peter Seebach's online
behavior
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/482b38643777da3c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 1:12 am
From: Mark Bluemel

John Bode wrote:
> On Mar 10, 8:39 am, spinoza1111 <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> A letter complaining about Peter Seebach's online behavior in this
>> forum and in comp.lang.c.moderated has been sent to Apress management.
>
> Serious question: what are you expecting to happen as a result of this
> letter?

A sound spanking to be administered? Seebs to be sent to the naughty
step? $diety only knows how Spinoza thinks the world works.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best way/library to draw individual pixels on screen? (for
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/bf4e0288d8537985?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 1:48 am
From: Dr Malcolm McLean

On 11 Mar, 07:29, "Robbie Hatley"
<see.my.signat...@for.my.contact.info> wrote:
> This is especially evidenced by the fact that he slams C++ for
> presenting so many alternate ways of doing things, especially
> for having both C features (such as arrays) and C++ features
> (such as std::vector).  But I think that's one of the BEST points
> of C++, not the worst; it gives the programmer the option of
> either doing things "close to the machine" (such as by using
> arrays, or malloc/free), or doing things at a higher level of
> abstraction (such as with std::vector, or new/delete).
>
The problem is that basic structure, like arrays / vectors, act as a
protocol by which components of programs communicate with each other.
If some use plain C-style arrays and some use vectors for essentially
the same job, you've got a similar situation to having three or four
different plugs and sockets. Of course you can mess about with
adapters and usually get things to work, but it's messy and
inefficient.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ANNOUNCE: WinGDB - debugging with GDB under Visual Studio
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/caa9b97bbee41cd4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 2:02 am
From: Nick Keighley

On 9 Mar, 11:22, Branimir Maksimovic <bm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 02:41:48 -0800 (PST)
> Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nos...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > X is never going to look as pretty as Windows.
>
> ;)
>
> > <duck>
>
> Greets!

oddly, no one disageed!

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 2:07 am
From: Nick Keighley

On 10 Mar, 18:20, REH <spamj...@stny.rr.com> wrote:
> On Mar 9, 9:31 pm, Phred Phungus <Ph...@example.invalid> wrote:
> > REH wrote:

> > > There are a lot of GDB frontends Linux: Insight, KDBG, DDD, Eclipse. I
> > > don't think any are as good as VS. My issue is I do a lot of GCC on
> > > Windows, but GUIs for it are few an far between. And again, they are a
> > > far cry from VS.
>
> > Thx, that's good to know.  My debuggers have been print statements since
> > I went gnu.

I used raw (from the command line) gdb recently it wasn't an
unpleasant experience.

> > Question for you: if you had to coach a person with abilities and means
> > like your own through a useful mingw install, how long would that take?
>
> Installing MinGW is not hard. They have an auto-install executable on
> SourgeForge. I don't use it though, I just download the pieces I want
> and extract them to the same directory. There is a trick you need to
> do with G++ 4.X. It is not a full install. You need to have an older
> 3.X installed first, then put 4.x on top of it (unless they have since
> fixed it).
>
> So, just download MinGW, its support libraries, and the tools you want
> (gcc, make, etc.), and extract them all in the same directory.
>
> After that, just update your PATH to point to MinGW's bin directory,
> and you can execute gcc as you would normally. MSYS is also nice if
> you want a BASH shell, but I just use CMD.

you used to have to be careful where you installed it. It doesn't (or
didn't) like spaces in pathnames, hence "C:\Program Files\MinGW" is
out for a start.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 2:03 am
From: Ian Collins

On 03/11/10 11:02 PM, Nick Keighley wrote:
> On 9 Mar, 11:22, Branimir Maksimovic<bm...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 9 Mar 2010 02:41:48 -0800 (PST)
>> Nick Keighley<nick_keighley_nos...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>> X is never going to look as pretty as Windows.
>>
>> ;)
>>
>>> <duck>
>>
>> Greets!
>
> oddly, no one disageed!

That's because we Unix developers appreciate substance over style :)

--
Ian Collins

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 2:59 am
From: gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)

In article <30454ba2-5c31-472a-8003-c92be454dea5@q23g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:
...
>you used to have to be careful where you installed it. It doesn't (or
>didn't) like spaces in pathnames, hence "C:\Program Files\MinGW" is
>out for a start.

But I assume that C:\progra~1\MinGW would work just fine.
That's how I would do it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: An interview question
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/c93105672f793e63?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 2:09 am
From: Nick Keighley

On 5 Mar, 20:08, Debanjan <debanjan4...@gmail.com> wrote:

interview question 1:
> Does there exist any other alternative data structure instead of
> struct tm (having same memory allocated as this structure) ? So that I
> could use strftime without declaring <time.h>

interview question 2:
how would you change a car tyre using only your teeth?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Beginner's guide to MinGW?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/e2cff1c3cf36ab5f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 2:34 am
From: Nick Keighley

On 9 Mar, 22:20, jacob navia <ja...@jacob.remcomp.fr> wrote:
> MikeC a crit :

> > I know this isn't a C-language related question, but before I get into
> > C,  I have to have a compiler.
> > In fact, I have been using DJGPP for many years, but I have recently
> > upgraded to a 64-bit CPU machine, and the old DOS programs I wrote with
> > it, and DJGPP itself, won't run on it.  For this reason, I'd like to
> > upgrade to MinGW, and I'm sure there are people on this user group that
> > could point the way.
>
> > What I'm looking for is a really simple manual that will hold my hand
> > till I get going, and have compiled and run my first C program.  After
> > that, I should be OK.
> > I tried the user forum on the MinGW site, but found them none too
> > helpful. It's populated by people who don't willingly tolerate newbies.
>
> > I have found a fair amount on the web about it, but it's all about other
> > languages, and I want something that specifically tells me how to
> > compile and run a C program.  I've been trying for a long time, but I'm
> > clearly not understanding something.
>
> Well,use lcc-win. It is a free compiler that is MUCH easier to use for a
> beginner than mingw.
>
> http://www.q-software-solutions.de
>
> Download the tutorial too, that explains the C language and learns you
> how to get up and running in C.
>
> Disclaimer:
> This message is written by the author of lcc-win. So, it is a biased
> advice. Use with care :-)- Hide quoted text -

Microsoft's "Visual C++ Express" is another free compiler. And despite
the weird name it compiles bog-standard C. Reasonable IDE. Some say it
is a very large download. I can't say I noticed.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 11 2010 2:58 am
From: gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)

In article <8570349a-efc2-432a-b7e4-61e88c29974f@q16g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
Nick Keighley <nick_keighley_nospam@hotmail.com> wrote:
...
>Microsoft's "Visual C++ Express" is another free compiler. And despite
>the weird name it compiles bog-standard C. Reasonable IDE. Some say it
>is a very large download. I can't say I noticed.

Note that compilers from MS only compile some old version of standard C.
MS has not kept up-to-date with the current standard.

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