twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 15 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Suspend those pesky physics laws!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/29ce64ba74b5784a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 1:19 pm
From: Tim Wescott

Buerste wrote:
> "pyotr filipivich" <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote in message
> news:r1d2p5tp823albkprc726mdcgeo6uid6dl@4ax.com...
>> Let the Record show that "Buerste" <buerste@buerste.com> on or about
>> Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:31:33 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
>> rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>> Is works perfectly and fast! By varying the pressure in the cylinder that
>>> presses the gears together, the wire is gripped very well at 60 lbs air
>>> pressure and will slip through the gears easily at no pressure.
>>>
>>> The only problem I have is that the gears over-run and feed too much wire.
>>> I've considered lightening the gears by drilling a bunch of holes. Also,
>>> a
>>> drag brake on one or both gears with screws pressing brass pucks against
>>> it.
>>> Another idea is an air limit switch that is struck at the end of the
>>> stroke
>>> by the crank. This switch would unload the pressure on the clamping
>>> cylinder and let the wire slip between the gears when they over-run.
>> Sounds like a "delay" between when you say "stop" and it does
>> actually stop. Reminds me of a story about teaching a bunch of
>> farmers to use small boats. They were used to tractors, which only
>> turn when the steering wheel turned. Turn the wheel hard over, make a
>> 90 degree turn, then straighten the wheel, "plow on". Small boats,
>> otoh, keep turning. One needs to stop 'turning' before completing the
>> turn, so that the boat is going "straight" when it gets to the new
>> heading.
>>
>> So "re-calibrate". That is, if X amount of time produces Y amount
>> of wire, shorten X. Seems to me the air limit switch is an idea for
>> doing just that. Cut off the air so that the "overrun" produces the
>> last amount of travel needed to get the right amount of wire. That
>> "over travel" is not a bug, it is a feature.
>
> Yep! But I hate these "Kentucky Windage" things!

They have a nasty tendency to change with time and temperature. You
want the machine to serve you, not the other way around.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 2:33 pm
From: "Buerste"

"chaniarts" <charlie.spitzer@nospam.stratus.com> wrote in message
news:hmrmd5$b08$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Buerste wrote:
>> "Larry Jaques" <ljaques@diversify.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:5642p5d1eult3s9d7sdd6pvhh42hd8tokt@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:31:33 -0500, the infamous "Buerste"
>>> <buerste@buerste.com> scrawled the following:
>>>
>>>> Damn inertia!
>>>>
>>>> I have an air cylinder, 1.5" x 4" stroke, that pushes a crank on a
>>>> shaft to
>>>> rotate the shaft about 90 deg. On the shaft is a gear with a
>>>> one-way clutch. The 4" x 1/2" gear turns about 3" at the perimeter
>>>> per stroke of the cylinder. By moving the link to the air cylinder
>>>> up or down on the crank the gear will rotate more or less per
>>>> stroke. A second gear is meshed
>>>> into the first gear with pressure from another air cylinder. Wire
>>>> is fed between the gears in a grove cut in the face of each gear. The
>>>> idea is to feed wire 3" per stroke.
>>>
>>> What kind? Mangrove? Orange grove?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Is works perfectly and fast! By varying the pressure in the
>>>> cylinder that presses the gears together, the wire is gripped very
>>>> well at 60 lbs air pressure and will slip through the gears easily
>>>> at no pressure. The only problem I have is that the gears over-run and
>>>> feed too
>>>> much wire.
>>>
>>> That doesn't sound quite like "perfectly" to me. <g>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've considered lightening the gears by drilling a bunch of holes.
>>>> Also, a
>>>> drag brake on one or both gears with screws pressing brass pucks
>>>> against it.
>>>> Another idea is an air limit switch that is struck at the end of the
>>>> stroke
>>>> by the crank. This switch would unload the pressure on the clamping
>>>> cylinder and let the wire slip between the gears when they over-run.
>>>>
>>>> Would the air limit switch work fast enough to unclamp the wire in
>>>> time? Would I be better off with an electric switch and valve? I
>>>> might have to lighten the gears, brake them and switch off the air
>>>> clamp The feed has to
>>>> take place in <300ms.
>>>
>>> Why not feed 'em with stepper motors turning the gears, Tawm? That
>>> would be much more precise than having to maintain exact feed tension
>>> and maintain split-second air timing unless you're actually
>>> ratcheting the gears. That design would make for a high-maintenance
>>> situ, tho. --
>>> An author spends months writing a book, and maybe puts his
>>> heart's blood into it, and then it lies about unread till
>>> the reader has nothing else in the world to do.
>>> -- W. Somerset Maugham, The Razor's Edge, 1943
>>
>>
>> You're always so MEAN to me!
>>
>> Steppers don't have the speed or oomph and I'm a "MECHANICAL"
>> engineer! Get it...mechanical??? Anybody can just stick in
>> electronics but it takes a mechanical guy to do a "Rube Goldberg".
>
> could you stop it with electromagnets?
>

Sure, a magnetic particle brake is being considered as well as an air
caliper brake.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 2:36 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote in message
news:rKGdnSF76K4Z6AzWnZ2dnUVZ_oYAAAAA@web-ster.com...
> Buerste wrote:
>> "Larry Jaques" <ljaques@diversify.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:5642p5d1eult3s9d7sdd6pvhh42hd8tokt@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:31:33 -0500, the infamous "Buerste"
>>> <buerste@buerste.com> scrawled the following:
>>>
>>>> Damn inertia!
>>>>
>>>> I have an air cylinder, 1.5" x 4" stroke, that pushes a crank on a
>>>> shaft to
>>>> rotate the shaft about 90 deg. On the shaft is a gear with a one-way
>>>> clutch. The 4" x 1/2" gear turns about 3" at the perimeter per stroke
>>>> of
>>>> the cylinder. By moving the link to the air cylinder up or down on the
>>>> crank the gear will rotate more or less per stroke. A second gear is
>>>> meshed
>>>> into the first gear with pressure from another air cylinder. Wire is
>>>> fed
>>>> between the gears in a grove cut in the face of each gear. The idea is
>>>> to
>>>> feed wire 3" per stroke.
>>> What kind? Mangrove? Orange grove?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Is works perfectly and fast! By varying the pressure in the cylinder
>>>> that
>>>> presses the gears together, the wire is gripped very well at 60 lbs air
>>>> pressure and will slip through the gears easily at no pressure.
>>>>
>>>> The only problem I have is that the gears over-run and feed too much
>>>> wire.
>>> That doesn't sound quite like "perfectly" to me. <g>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I've considered lightening the gears by drilling a bunch of holes.
>>>> Also, a
>>>> drag brake on one or both gears with screws pressing brass pucks
>>>> against it.
>>>> Another idea is an air limit switch that is struck at the end of the
>>>> stroke
>>>> by the crank. This switch would unload the pressure on the clamping
>>>> cylinder and let the wire slip between the gears when they over-run.
>>>>
>>>> Would the air limit switch work fast enough to unclamp the wire in
>>>> time?
>>>> Would I be better off with an electric switch and valve? I might have
>>>> to
>>>> lighten the gears, brake them and switch off the air clamp The feed
>>>> has to
>>>> take place in <300ms.
>>> Why not feed 'em with stepper motors turning the gears, Tawm? That
>>> would be much more precise than having to maintain exact feed tension
>>> and maintain split-second air timing unless you're actually ratcheting
>>> the gears. That design would make for a high-maintenance situ, tho.
>>>
>>> --
>>> An author spends months writing a book, and maybe puts his
>>> heart's blood into it, and then it lies about unread till
>>> the reader has nothing else in the world to do.
>>> -- W. Somerset Maugham, The Razor's Edge, 1943
>>
>>
>> You're always so MEAN to me!
>>
>> Steppers don't have the speed or oomph and I'm a "MECHANICAL" engineer!
>> Get it...mechanical??? Anybody can just stick in electronics but it
>> takes a mechanical guy to do a "Rube Goldberg".
>
> You wouldn't say that if you read the source code for a few products with
> embedded processors. Embedded software is the ultimate Rube Goldberg
> artifact, it's just well hidden.
>
> You shred mechanical drawings so your competitors can't copy your product.
>
> You shred electrical drawings so your competitors can't get an idea of how
> you think.
>
> You shred source code so your competitors won't laugh at you.
>
> --
> Tim Wescott
> Control system and signal processing consulting
> www.wescottdesign.com

My good friends at Carlson Tool, they make brush machines, does machine
shows in China. They change the labels on the servo gear boxes so that the
gear ratios are WAY off.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 2:37 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote in message
news:rKGdnSB76K4j6AzWnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@web-ster.com...
> Buerste wrote:
>> "pyotr filipivich" <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>> news:r1d2p5tp823albkprc726mdcgeo6uid6dl@4ax.com...
>>> Let the Record show that "Buerste" <buerste@buerste.com> on or about
>>> Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:31:33 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
>>> rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>> Is works perfectly and fast! By varying the pressure in the cylinder
>>>> that
>>>> presses the gears together, the wire is gripped very well at 60 lbs air
>>>> pressure and will slip through the gears easily at no pressure.
>>>>
>>>> The only problem I have is that the gears over-run and feed too much
>>>> wire.
>>>> I've considered lightening the gears by drilling a bunch of holes.
>>>> Also, a
>>>> drag brake on one or both gears with screws pressing brass pucks
>>>> against it.
>>>> Another idea is an air limit switch that is struck at the end of the
>>>> stroke
>>>> by the crank. This switch would unload the pressure on the clamping
>>>> cylinder and let the wire slip between the gears when they over-run.
>>> Sounds like a "delay" between when you say "stop" and it does
>>> actually stop. Reminds me of a story about teaching a bunch of
>>> farmers to use small boats. They were used to tractors, which only
>>> turn when the steering wheel turned. Turn the wheel hard over, make a
>>> 90 degree turn, then straighten the wheel, "plow on". Small boats,
>>> otoh, keep turning. One needs to stop 'turning' before completing the
>>> turn, so that the boat is going "straight" when it gets to the new
>>> heading.
>>>
>>> So "re-calibrate". That is, if X amount of time produces Y amount
>>> of wire, shorten X. Seems to me the air limit switch is an idea for
>>> doing just that. Cut off the air so that the "overrun" produces the
>>> last amount of travel needed to get the right amount of wire. That
>>> "over travel" is not a bug, it is a feature.
>>
>> Yep! But I hate these "Kentucky Windage" things!
>
> They have a nasty tendency to change with time and temperature. You want
> the machine to serve you, not the other way around.
>
> --
> Tim Wescott
> Control system and signal processing consulting
> www.wescottdesign.com

It has to do with the planet Mercury...

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 2:45 pm
From: "chaniarts"

Buerste wrote:
> "Tim Wescott" <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote in message
> news:rKGdnSB76K4j6AzWnZ2dnUVZ_oadnZ2d@web-ster.com...
>> Buerste wrote:
>>> "pyotr filipivich" <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>> news:r1d2p5tp823albkprc726mdcgeo6uid6dl@4ax.com...
>>>> Let the Record show that "Buerste" <buerste@buerste.com> on or
>>>> about Thu, 4 Mar 2010 14:31:33 -0500 did write/type or cause to
>>>> appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>>> Is works perfectly and fast! By varying the pressure in the
>>>>> cylinder that
>>>>> presses the gears together, the wire is gripped very well at 60
>>>>> lbs air pressure and will slip through the gears easily at no
>>>>> pressure. The only problem I have is that the gears over-run and feed
>>>>> too
>>>>> much wire.
>>>>> I've considered lightening the gears by drilling a bunch of holes.
>>>>> Also, a
>>>>> drag brake on one or both gears with screws pressing brass pucks
>>>>> against it.
>>>>> Another idea is an air limit switch that is struck at the end of
>>>>> the stroke
>>>>> by the crank. This switch would unload the pressure on the
>>>>> clamping cylinder and let the wire slip between the gears when
>>>>> they over-run.
>>>> Sounds like a "delay" between when you say "stop" and it does
>>>> actually stop. Reminds me of a story about teaching a bunch of
>>>> farmers to use small boats. They were used to tractors, which only
>>>> turn when the steering wheel turned. Turn the wheel hard over,
>>>> make a 90 degree turn, then straighten the wheel, "plow on". Small
>>>> boats, otoh, keep turning. One needs to stop 'turning' before
>>>> completing the turn, so that the boat is going "straight" when it
>>>> gets to the new heading.
>>>>
>>>> So "re-calibrate". That is, if X amount of time produces Y amount
>>>> of wire, shorten X. Seems to me the air limit switch is an idea
>>>> for doing just that. Cut off the air so that the "overrun"
>>>> produces the last amount of travel needed to get the right amount
>>>> of wire. That "over travel" is not a bug, it is a feature.
>>>
>>> Yep! But I hate these "Kentucky Windage" things!
>>
>> They have a nasty tendency to change with time and temperature. You
>> want the machine to serve you, not the other way around.
>>
>> --
>> Tim Wescott
>> Control system and signal processing consulting
>> www.wescottdesign.com
>
> It has to do with the planet Mercury...

it's the phase of the moon

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 2:57 pm
From: axolotl

On 3/5/2010 12:17 PM, Tim Wescott wrote:
you could well have designed in a brushless motor

Tom doesn't do brushless.

Kevin Gallimore

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Alternatives to LPS-2
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c986024af47a68d0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 1:22 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 01:02:34 -0600, the infamous Don Foreman
<dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> scrawled the following:

>On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:26:15 -0800, Larry Jaques
><ljaques@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 4 Mar 2010 04:44:57 -0800 (PST), the infamous Jim Wilkins
>><kb1dal@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
>>
>>>On Mar 4, 7:17 am, Larry Jaques <ljaq...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>>>> ...
>>>> I missed the first part of this thread. What are these things for? It
>>>> looks like a propane-to-rattle-can adapter, maybe used to repressurize
>>>> flat spray cans.
>>>
>>>Makes them round again.
>>>
>>>If propane doesn't quickly dissolve into the contents it can
>>>overpressure the can, that's why I used butane.
>>>http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/propane-vapor-pressure-d_1020.html
>>>
>>>Spray cans do not fail gracefully. I'd rather not post the details as
>>>others might try and not be so lucky.
>>
>>Ouch! Scratch that off my list of possible cool tools to have/make.
>
>And you gave me shit about shying from a 40-joule ICD mulekick when
>TIG welding, you macho devil-may-care dawg!

Har! That's a simple mulekick. I'm worried about paint or adhesive
embedded into all 400 boardfeet of Jarrah lumber in my shop. Cleanup
would exceed 2 full work-weeks, I'm sure.

I _would_ like to refill the little propane bottles from the 5gal
tank, though.

>Not knocking prudence, caution and dainty demurral, but note: it
>takes about 150 PSIG to pop a plastic (PET) beverage bottle. Metal
>cans are smaller and stronger than plastic bottles.
>
>I don't know if dissolution into content lowers vapor pressure or not,
>and if so what the time constant might be, I'll defer to Wilkins on
>chemistry. That said, I can report that I have recharged and saved
>many rattlecans with propane over a period of at least two decades
>with no mishaps.

I'd say that's a pretty good history.

>If a spraycan did fail ungracefully it'd make a pop and a mess but
>it'd just rupture, no shrapnel. Wearing protective eyeware should be
>SOP in the shop anyway and this is a shop activity, not one to be
>practiced in milady's parlor.

I've seen one go. They DEFINITELY are not pretty.

>Pick yer pony, take yer ride ... or walk behind far enough that you
>feel safe. <G>

Thass right! I bought one of the little refillable aerosol cans and
could puncture the spray can and drain it into that if needed. It
definitely does NOT work with latex paint, my original purpose. I
forgot to ask first. :(

--
An author spends months writing a book, and maybe puts his
heart's blood into it, and then it lies about unread till
the reader has nothing else in the world to do.
-- W. Somerset Maugham, The Razor's Edge, 1943

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Blocking newsgroups?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7e634c4213fed3e9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 1:23 pm
From: Pete Snell

Thanks for jumping in Steve.

Steve Ackman wrote:

>
> 2.x has that as well, but it often(?) doesn't come
> that way. You have to enable it.
>
> In Icedove 2.0.0.22 I now have 12 headers to filter
> on, plus the Customize option you see in 3.x.
> (Icedove ≅ Thunderbird)
>
> I had to enable that by
> Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Config Editor
> set mailnews.customHeaders to true
> (Win T'bird users have to get there via Tools, AIUI)

So Tools-> Options-> Config Editor? (Tbird version 2.0.0.23)

What I get here is a list of functions and settings, but my
mailnews.customHeaders is at default status, and is a string function
and the 'value' is blank.

Is that right? Or do I have to modify/create something? Seems like it
should be boolean, not string.

Pete

--
Pete Snell
Department of Physics
Royal Military College
Kingston, Ontario,
Canada
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Imagination is more important than knowledge.

Albert Einstein (1879-1955)

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 3:19 pm
From: Steve Ackman

In <4b917634$1@win9.rmc.ca>, on Fri, 05 Mar 2010 16:23:02 -0500, Pete
Snell, snell-p@rmc.ca wrote:
> Thanks for jumping in Steve.
>
> Steve Ackman wrote:
>
>>
>> 2.x has that as well, but it often(?) doesn't come
>> that way. You have to enable it.
>>
>> In Icedove 2.0.0.22 I now have 12 headers to filter
>> on, plus the Customize option you see in 3.x.
>> (Icedove ≅ Thunderbird)
>>
>> I had to enable that by
>> Edit -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Config Editor
>> set mailnews.customHeaders to true
>> (Win T'bird users have to get there via Tools, AIUI)
>
> So Tools-> Options-> Config Editor? (Tbird version 2.0.0.23)
>
> What I get here is a list of functions and settings, but my
> mailnews.customHeaders is at default status, and is a string function
> and the 'value' is blank.
>
> Is that right? Or do I have to modify/create something?

<Removing foot from mouth>
Come to find out, I wasn't watching all the places
I needed to be. The above appears to operate on local
folders. Sorry for the false hope.

--
☯☯

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Gun nuts need psych tests, at least "obsessed" 0bama lovers do.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/11438d55184e2ddd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 1:42 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 02:53:04 -0800, the infamous Gunner Asch
<gunnerasch@gmail.com> scrawled the following:

>of Divine Providence,
>we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred
>honor.

Today's pols read that as "We mutually pledge to each other your
lives, to give each other your fortunes, and our complete lack of
honor.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Democrats mired in swamp they vowed to drain
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f3188db17f8f731b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 1:43 pm
From: "Burled Frau"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100305/ap_on_go_co/us_culture_of_corruption

Democrats mired in swamp they vowed to drain

By LAURIE KELLMAN and LARRY MARGASAK, Associated Press Writers Laurie
Kellman And Larry Margasak, Associated Press Writers - Thu Mar 4, 7:35 pm ET

WASHINGTON - A rash of ethics lapses has given Democrats an election-year
headache: how to convince skeptical voters that they're any cleaner than
Republicans they accused of fostering a "culture of corruption" in 2006.

From the conduct of governors in Illinois and New York to back-room deals
over President Barack Obama's health care overhaul, Democrats are drawing
their own criticism when it comes to the ethics of public officials.

The party that pledged to "drain the swamp" if given control of Congress
finds itself sinking in the muck nine months from Election Day, when every
member of the House and 36 Senate seats will be chosen.

The sword of sanctimony cuts both ways, warns a Republican felled by his own
scandal in the weeks before the 2006 elections, as then-Rep. Nancy Pelosi
led the campaign cry to end "the culture of corruption that has thrived
under this Republican Congress."

"If you claim that you are going to hold a group accountable, as she
professed, then it requires you to really be serious about that and not make
excuses when members of their own party don't meet those same standards,"
former Rep. Mark Foley, who resigned weeks before the 2006 election because
of allegations he pursued former House pages, told The Associated Press.

"Otherwise," he added, "the public becomes cynical and suspicious."

Even embattled Rep. Charlie Rangel, the 20-term veteran who stepped down
from the chairmanship of the Ways and Means Committee this week,
acknowledged that hanging on only would have prolonged distractions and
political pain for Pelosi and other Democrats.

"It's not fair to her and it's not fair to the many freshmen and those who
have close districts, that instead of getting their message out, (reporters
and constituents) are asking about me," Rangel said.

Between now and November can be several lifetimes in political terms. But
there are plenty of scandalous developments that could pop in the interim.
The closer to the balloting, the tougher it is to stem the damage.

Democrats say they should get credit - or at least not be punished at the
polls - for trying to clean up Capitol Hill with an independent ethics
office that didn't exist under Republican rule.

"I think we've come a long way since I became speaker with the outside
ethics groups and now we have a functioning ethics committee, bipartisan and
independent of the speaker," Pelosi told reporters Thursday.

But because Democrats gained control of the White House and Congress in part
by vowing to cleanse the institutions of government, breaches by party
members high and low raise questions of hypocrisy.

The list is long.

Former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich is awash in corruption charges related
to his efforts to fill President Barack Obama's former Senate seat.

New York Gov. David Paterson is hemorrhaging staff as he faces two
misconduct investigations and increasing calls for him to quit. Paterson's
disgraced predecessor, Elliot Spitzer, pops up more and more in interviews
these days.

New York is home to other political headaches for Democrats.

Rangel gave up his committee chairmanship this week after the ethics
committee admonished him for breaking House rules by accepting
corporate-financed travel. Rangel still faces an inquiry over the way he
used his position to solicit corporate donations to an educational
institution that bears his name, as well as the belated disclosure of
hundreds of thousands of dollars in previously unlisted wealth.

Then there's the perception of payoffs to states represented by senators who
hesitated on supporting the Senate's health care bill, part of the overhaul
that Obama had named his top legislative priority.

Dubbed the "Cornhusker kickback" and the "Louisiana purchase," the deals
with Democratic Sens. Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Mary Landrieu of Louisiana
drew derision for the perception of sneakiness they created.

Dark-of-night dealmaking and misbehaving members are traditions as old as
government itself, the price of putting ambitious human beings in positions
of power and showering them with privileges unknown to most people they
govern. "There must be some sort of greed virus that attacks those in
power," U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III said in November when sentencing
former Democratic Rep. William Jefferson of Louisiana to 13 years in prison
for taking bribes. The judge called public corruption "a cancer on the body
politic."

And winning seats, not cleansing candidates or the legislature, is the top
priority of party leaders.

To be sure, poor behavior thrived under Republican congressional control.
Former Majority Leader Tom DeLay of Texas absorbed several adverse ethics
rulings before his indictment in 2005 in Texas on campaign finance
conspiracy charges. He grinned widely for his mug shot and pleaded innocent,
but the scandal forced him from Congress.

As the 2006 election year began, Republicans stung by the influence-peddling
scandal propelled by lobbyist Jack Abramoff tried to seize the initiative
for ethics reform by proposing a package of changes: a virtual ban on gifts,
for example.

But the gesture didn't insulate the GOP. Former Rep. Randy "Duke Cunningham
was sentenced in 2006 to more than eight years in prison in a major
corruption case after he collected more than $2 million in homes, yachts and
other bribes.

Then there was Foley, a Florida Republican. His scandal exploded across the
political landscape six weeks before the election. It singed House GOP
leaders who, it turned out, had been aware for months of Foley's e-mails to
former pages. The details all came long after Republicans losses seemed
inevitable, but too close to Election Day for the party to fight back
effectively.

More ethics news is in store for Democrats. Rangel, for example, still faces
decisions over his conduct.

Democratic discomfort over that matter was clear in the immediate aftermath
of his decision to step aside as chairman. Pelosi and other leaders stayed
silent on the automatic promotion of the Democrat next in line: Rep. Pete
Stark, the volatile Californian, whose conduct also was the subject of an
ethics probe in which he was eventually cleared of wrongdoing. Early
Thursday, he stepped aside to allow the congenial Rep. Sander Levin of
Michigan to take the gavel.

Pelosi, at her news conference Thursday, announced the new acting chairman.

"The issues that transpired in the last few days, they are behind us," she
said, hopefully but perhaps not realistically. "They are behind us."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Al Gore still waiting for his ship to come in
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/ab5a9c54d2724210?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 2:01 pm
From: "Burled Frau"

no polar bears were hurt in reporting this story :)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_re_eu/eu_baltic_ferries_stuck_5

1,000 trapped on ferry stuck in Baltic Sea ice

By KARL RITTER, Associated Press Writer Karl Ritter, Associated Press
Writer - Thu Mar 4, 6:45 pm ET
STOCKHOLM - Dozens of ships including a passenger ferry with nearly 1,000
people on board were trapped Friday in heavy pack ice in the Baltic Sea off
Sweden's east coast, officials said.

Ice breakers were trying to free the ferry Amorella and two cargo ships
stuck at the edge of an archipelago northeast of Stockholm, while rescue
helicopters and military hovercraft were on standby to evacuate passengers
if needed. Gale-force winds were hampering the effort, the Swedish Maritime
Administration said.

"As soon as they break the ice, it freezes over again," sea rescue spokesman
Peter Lindquist said. He said no one was hurt and there were no immediate
plans to evacuate the ships.

The Maritime Administration said the Amorella had 753 passengers and 190
crew on board. The 10-deck ship belongs to Viking Line, which operates
Baltic Sea cruises between Sweden and Finland.

The other ships stuck in the area were the roll-on-roll-off ferry Sea Wind
with 32 people and the Regal Star, a cargo ship with 56 people on board.
Three other ferries that got stuck in the ice were able to break free
earlier Thursday.

One of those ships, the Finnfellow, collided lightly with the Amorella when
the ice pressed the two ships together, but there was no major damage to
either ship, Lindquist said. "Just some paint that was scratched off," he
said.

A total of about 50 ships were stuck in ice along Sweden's eastern seaboard,
said Johny Lindvall, who manages the maritime administration's ice breaker
service. Heavy ice cover is not uncommon further north, but the ice rarely
gets thick enough in the Stockholm archipelago to trap powerful passenger
ferries like the Amorella.

"There's no danger for the passengers as long as there's food and drink on
board," Lindvall told The Associated Press.

Mats Nystrom, a passenger on the Amorella, told Swedish broadcaster SVT that
there was no panic on the ship.

"The atmosphere is calm so there is no danger in that sense," said Nystrom,
who is a sports presenter for the network. He said the most dramatic event
had been when the two ships touched.

"Suddenly in the loudspeakers there's a voice saying that all passengers
must immediately move to the front. Of course at that moment the passengers
got worried and wondered what was happening," Nystrom said.

The maritime administration said the ships had ignored warnings about the
icy conditions.

"Normally we can handle this type of obstacle," Viking Line CEO Jan Karstrom
told SVT. "But in this case the wind is unfortunate. It's blowing toward
land and it means that (the ice) is packed more and more against land."

Three Swedish icebreakers were trying to free the ship. Finland also
dispatched an ice breaker to help out, said Benny Paulsson from a maritime
rescue center on Finland's southwest coast.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Liberals Smarter Than Conservatives
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/30a39cd522bcf038?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 2:23 pm
From: Zombywoof

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 11:18:16 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
<rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:

<snip>
>> There's a job for you then.
>
>Don't need one. I am having too much fun being retired and spending money
>to keep the economy moving. ;)
>
I'm glad somebody is keeping the economy moving :)
>
>> How about you take a survey of the newsgroup
>> and tally up how many derogatory remarks and childish personal attacks
>> you find and let us know who is the most guilty of doing it? I've been
>> reading the posts here for quite a while and I find the worst and most
>> personal attacks come from the right wing people. You could see who are
>> the worst offenders and report back. Are you up to the job?
>
>People will find what they wish to see when they do that. It was like
>the health summit.....Republicans saw it much differently than the
>Democrats but both of them were at the same conference.
>
Normally, but in this particular forum, talk.politics.guns it really
does appear to me that the so-called Progressives are more often then
not the first to fling the personal attacks and are usually the most
close-minded of the participants and most subjects. They also appear
the most likely to be the one's to tell people how they think they
should run their lives.

Take the primary issue of this forum, guns. It really is as simple as
each person making up their mind as to whether or not they want to own
& operate firearms. It isn't as if those who are Pro RKBA are
advocating that everyone be forced to run out and buy one.
--

"Gustatus Similis Pullus"

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 3:42 pm
From: "RD (The Sandman)"

Zombywoof <fishwings@live.com> wrote in
news:km03p5dntlcibgcp305oatvde8cq0tel79@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 11:18:16 -0600, "RD (The Sandman)"
> <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>>> There's a job for you then.
>>
>>Don't need one. I am having too much fun being retired and spending
>>money to keep the economy moving. ;)
>>
> I'm glad somebody is keeping the economy moving :)

Doing what I can. Of course, I am not working on a global scale since I
am but one person.....

>>> How about you take a survey of the newsgroup
>>> and tally up how many derogatory remarks and childish personal
>>> attacks you find and let us know who is the most guilty of doing it?
>>> I've been reading the posts here for quite a while and I find the
>>> worst and most personal attacks come from the right wing people. You
>>> could see who are the worst offenders and report back. Are you up to
>>> the job?
>>
>>People will find what they wish to see when they do that. It was like
>>the health summit.....Republicans saw it much differently than the
>>Democrats but both of them were at the same conference.
>>
> Normally, but in this particular forum, talk.politics.guns it really
> does appear to me that the so-called Progressives are more often then
> not the first to fling the personal attacks and are usually the most
> close-minded of the participants and most subjects. They also appear
> the most likely to be the one's to tell people how they think they
> should run their lives.

I see the same thing in here.....sometimes it is amazing.....others it is
amusing.

> Take the primary issue of this forum, guns. It really is as simple as
> each person making up their mind as to whether or not they want to own
> & operate firearms. It isn't as if those who are Pro RKBA are
> advocating that everyone be forced to run out and buy one.

It is the folks from the party of choice get upset if someone actually
makes a choice that differs from theirs. Hell, see the Tebow
controversy.

--
Sleep well tonight,

RD (The Sandman)

"Expecting a carjacker, rapist or drug pusher to care that his
possession or use of a gun is unlawful is like expecting a terrorist
to care that his car bomb is taking up two parking spaces."

--Joseph T. Chew

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 2010 fundraising
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/9812ea4eb04cc94d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 2:22 pm
From: Cliff

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 11:54:48 -0600, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> As in Palin & bushco ....
>> Wingers & rethugs really are idiots.
>> They fall for this stuff all the time.
>>
>> Anyone found those "WMDs" yet?
>>
>> Wingers lied.
>> People died.
>
>A first class Cluster Fuck.
>Palin belongs on the top of the ticket!

A quick search finds no Palin-related newsgroup
other than alt.satanism.

That's a bit odd.
Alt.stupid?
--
Cliff

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 4:09 pm
From: Lookout

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 17:22:58 -0500, Cliff
<Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:

>On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 11:54:48 -0600, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> As in Palin & bushco ....
>>> Wingers & rethugs really are idiots.
>>> They fall for this stuff all the time.
>>>
>>> Anyone found those "WMDs" yet?
>>>
>>> Wingers lied.
>>> People died.
>>
>>A first class Cluster Fuck.
>>Palin belongs on the top of the ticket!
>
> A quick search finds no Palin-related newsgroup
>other than alt.satanism.
>
> That's a bit odd.
> Alt.stupid?

Alt.youbetcha?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Stupid Life
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2f7c9c1433c557e0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 2:23 pm
From: Cliff

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 06:18:37 -0500, Kickin' Ass and Takin' Names
<PopUlist349@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 06:15:15 -0500, Cliff
><Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>
>> Palin wants home-based "reality" show for herself ....
>
>
>She'll likely get it.
>
>And a few 100,000 equally loony people will watch it regularly.
>
>Just wait -- there'll be a usenet newsgroup
>alt.fan.sarah.palin.reality

A quick search finds no Palin-related newsgroup
other than alt.satanism.

That's a bit odd.
Alt.stupid?
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT Its getting bloody awful!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/47ca63d50cb132f0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 2:38 pm
From: Wes

Andrew VK3BFA <VK3BFA@wia.org.au> wrote:

>> Sounds like you had a "Good Day in the Shop (TM)". ;)
>>
>It was more than a day, still a relative novice at metalworking, make
>too many mistakes and have to figure out how to do things. But,
>enjoying myself in the process - so much to learn, so little time.
>Wish I had started years ago.

As you said earlier about upgrading my ticket, metalworking is a hobby after all. Enjoy
using your mind as you use your hands and machines. It will keep your brain young.

Even when your approach works, you often figure out, during or after, the way you could
have really have done the job efficiently. The fact you figured it out a bit late means
you learned something from the experience. Nothing wrong with that.

>
>> I'm still looking for the box of Gatling parts and tooling.
>>
>> Wes
>>
>
>Take Care Wes, good luck with the search.

Found the box today. In plain sight with a top layer of other stuff in the box making me
think the box was full of computer parts.

Wes

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I was almost impounded, laptop saved me
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/22b99ed7799b84db?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 2:57 pm
From: Ignoramus28336

details later

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 3:17 pm
From: Wes

Ignoramus28336 <ignoramus28336@NOSPAM.28336.invalid> wrote:

>details later

Well since you managed to post this it sounds like you are walking free. Curiousity
piqued.

Wes

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Blacksmith tooling pix, hand and machine
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/949644754dce0829?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 3:08 pm
From: Brian Lawson

On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 13:51:13 -0600, spaco <spaco@baldwin-telecom.net>
wrote:

>> Back in 1999, we took an ABANA European tour to Germany, Austria and the Czech Republic. We saw lots of neat stuff. We took lots of pictures using an ancient art called "film photography". So it took a long time for me to decide to scan these babies in and process them for best results.
>> Here, in this new webpage, I have some pix of blacksmith tooling, both hand and machine, that, I hope, you will find of some interest:
>>
>>
>> http://www.spaco.org/Blacksmithing/Pictures/Eurotools/EuroToolGallery1.htm
>>
>> Pete Stanaitis
>> ---------------------
Hey Pete,

NEAT!!! What was the "drive principle" of the water-powered
trip-hammer (last pix)??

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 4:07 pm
From: spaco

There's a big wooden drive axle (about a foot in diameter) that is
rotated by the water wheel.
For some reason I think many of that kind of water wheel run at about 9
rpm. Don't ask me why. I think this drive axle was geared so it
operated the hammer at about at about 20 blows per minute.
There were, I think, 4 short wooden pins sticking out of the axle.
As that shaft rotates, each pin pushes DOWN on the tail end of the
helve, pushing the hammer end up. When the tail of the helve comes off
the end of the pin, the helve and hammer drop to the anvil with the
speed of gravity.
Many of us had the chance to try it ourselves. The interesting thing
was that the hammer head clamps the workpiece between blows, so it takes
a lot of heat out of the work just sitting there. It's a wierd feeling
when you are used to a "modern" (1890's) Little Giant power hammer
where the hammer is only on the workpiece for small fraction of the
cycle, at 325 to 375 blows per minute.

Glad you asked,
Pete Stanaitis
-------------------

Brian Lawson wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 13:51:13 -0600, spaco <spaco@baldwin-telecom.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>>Back in 1999, we took an ABANA European tour to Germany, Austria and the Czech Republic. We saw lots of neat stuff. We took lots of pictures using an ancient art called "film photography". So it took a long time for me to decide to scan these babies in and process them for best results.
>>>Here, in this new webpage, I have some pix of blacksmith tooling, both hand and machine, that, I hope, you will find of some interest:
>>>
>>>
>>>http://www.spaco.org/Blacksmithing/Pictures/Eurotools/EuroToolGallery1.htm
>>>
>>>Pete Stanaitis
>>>---------------------
>
> Hey Pete,
>
> NEAT!!! What was the "drive principle" of the water-powered
> trip-hammer (last pix)??
>
> Brian Lawson,
> Bothwell, Ontario

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Obama as a 'nasty and condescending' hypocrite
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c7fd681260679f2c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 3:10 pm
From: "Burled Frau"

"Though we didn't discuss it in our West Wing encounter, Obama also went on
in his book to describe me and other conservatives as 'eerily reminiscent of
some of the New Left's leaders during the sixties,' who 'viewed politics as
a contest not just between competing policy visions, but between good and
evil,'" Rove wrote.

"Now, that's rich, isn't it?" he marveled. "The last time I checked, I hadn't
bombed any government buildings (like, say, Obama's great friend William
Ayers); or asked that God 'damn' America (like, say, Obama's former pastor
and close friend Jeremiah Wright); or declared that I was proud of my
country for the first time in my life only when I was in my forties (like,
say, Obama's wife, Michelle)."

http://shavedlongcock.blogspot.com/2010/03/republican-strategist-karl-roves-new.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Second try.. Left handed Cobalt or Carbide Drill supplier?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3badc9c91bba5e44?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 3:24 pm
From: Wes

Bruce L. Bergman <bruceNOSPAMbergman@gmail.com> wrote:

> First day as new hire kid, Central Office Equipment Installer: "Hey,
>Newbie! Go down to the basement and bring us up another bucket of
>Dial Tone. We're getting low."

Most guys figured out bucket of prop wash or x number of feet of flight line and even
tamperdots was bs. Sending someone out for the keys to the aircraft sucked them in quite
well.

Wes

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Another Dimocrat jumps overboard
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/71afea9d3a59f7fe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 5 2010 3:39 pm
From: "Burled Frau"

"Burled Frau" <achtung@jawol.jah> wrote in message
news:4b916f9f@news.x-privat.org...
> Rep. Eric Massa (D-N.Y.) Resigning Seat in Congress

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/house/eric-massa-to-resign-from-cong.html?wprss=thefix

New York Rep. Eric Massa will resign his House seat on Monday at 5 p.m., he
said in a statement Friday, a move that comes just days after he announced
his plans to retire at the end of the year.

"A member of my staff believed I had made statements that made him feel
'uncomfortable,' " Massa said in the statement, posted on his House web
site. He added, "There is no doubt in my mind I did use language ... that
... might make a Chief Petty Officer feel uncomfortable."

"It's not that I can fight or beat these allegations, I'm guilty." Massa
said in a separate statement, to to his Washington and campaign staff, which
was reported by his hometown newspaper, the Corning (N.Y.) Leader.

He said in the message to his staff, "It's my fault and I can't blame anyone
but myself," adding, "I can't subject my family and staff to a full
investigation. It would tear us apart."

In announcing his retirement on Wednesday, Massa denied a Politico report
that the House Ethics committee was investigating him over alleged sexual
harassment of a male staffer but it was later revealed the committee was in
fact pursuing an inquiry into the New York Democrat's conduct.

"In that investigators would be free to ask anything about me, going back to
my birth, I simply cannot rise to that level of perfection," Massa said on
his House site. "God knows that I am a deeply flawed and imperfect person."

==============================================================================

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Friday, March 5, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

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