twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 13 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Polishing nonwoven wheel for buffers
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/77836da16e55925f?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 7:09 pm
From: Bob Engelhardt

Ned Simmons wrote:
...
> McMaster p/n 46575A73 ...

There must be some mistake - that item is $67.73. Surely, an 8" x 1"
polishing wheel CAN'T be that much?

And what's with the 3" arbor hole that it has? How do you mount a wheel
with a 3" hole? OK, OK, I know ... you make an adapter. But why should
you have to, why doesn't it come with some reasonably sized hole?

Bob

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 7:28 pm
From: Ignoramus18751

On 2010-03-19, Bob Engelhardt <bobengelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:
> Ned Simmons wrote:
> ...
>> McMaster p/n 46575A73 ...
>
> There must be some mistake - that item is $67.73. Surely, an 8" x 1"
> polishing wheel CAN'T be that much?
>
> And what's with the 3" arbor hole that it has? How do you mount a wheel
> with a 3" hole? OK, OK, I know ... you make an adapter. But why should
> you have to, why doesn't it come with some reasonably sized hole?

Bob, you need to try a wheel like this. Then you will realize that
$67.73 is a bargain price for what you get. It does an incredible job
at polishing.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 8:16 pm
From: Ned Simmons

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:09:34 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
<bobengelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:

>Ned Simmons wrote:
>...
>> McMaster p/n 46575A73 ...
>
>There must be some mistake - that item is $67.73. Surely, an 8" x 1"
>polishing wheel CAN'T be that much?

That's what they cost. But if you're careful about how you present
sharp edges to the wheel they last a very long time. When I was in the
marine hardware fab business I ran 12" x 3" wide wheels on a large
polishing stand. Even with heavy use I don't think we used more than a
couple or three wheels a year.

>
>And what's with the 3" arbor hole that it has? How do you mount a wheel
>with a 3" hole? OK, OK, I know ... you make an adapter. But why should
>you have to, why doesn't it come with some reasonably sized hole?

3M makes die cast adapters, they're below the wheels on the McMaster
page, and it wouldn't be difficult to make them yourself. That last 3"
of diameter isn't very useful on an 8" buffer, and as you note, the
wheels are expensive.

--
Ned Simmons

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TOPIC: What steel for pry bars?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/bcce4853edaf59b5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 7:16 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Bob Engelhardt" <bobengelhardt@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:hnulod0318h@news7.newsguy.com...
> OK, from what Ed & Tim said, I do want something harder than mild steel,
> so that it won't "yield" as soon as mild steel would.
>
> As to heat treating facilities, well, minimal - maximum heat capability is
> propane forge. Obviously no automatic temp control.
>
> As to what I'm making: it's for taking down tin ceilings. The ceilings
> will be salvaged, so the specifics of the tool are needed to minimize
> damage. The bar needs to be about 16" long, to reach over the back of a
> 24" tile. It needs to have a long taper, coming to a thin edge, to work
> under the nails without distorting the tin. One edge needs to be 3/4"
> wide to fit into a nailing space. One end will be straight & the other
> have a 90 degree leg. It will be pulling out 1" long 16 ga nails, so it
> won't have to be very strong - I'm thinking 1/16" thick (from trials with
> a 1/16" thick putty knife).
>
> If it wasn't for the length, I would re-shape the putty knife. Which
> suggests brazing or silver soldering the knife on a longer handle - is
> that doable? How about a 90 bend in it - I assume that would require
> heating to bend, quenching, and tempering?
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
>

I'm going to bow out of discussing making this one from scratch because
there are a lot of unknowns, and I'd only be guessing. I will offer a couple
of thoughts on another approach, though.

First, what you're describing sounds quite a bit like a Red Devil pry bar
that I have -- my thinnest one, which is tapered very thin, about 1-1/2"
wide, and really strong. But it's only about 12" long and would have to be
bent near the end, which probably would leave it a lot *less* strong after
softening with a torch and a half-fast re-heat-treatment. That can be
tricky, depending on the alloy.

But if you could find one of those things you probably could drill a couple
of holes in it and screw on a longer handle. We can discuss spot-annealing
with a drill press if necessary.

I'd start with something already made if at all possible. It's not that you
need great strength, it's just that you're otherwise dealing with more
variables than it's worth.

Good luck.

--
Ed Huntress

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 7:30 pm
From: Ignoramus18751

On 2010-03-19, Bob Engelhardt <bobengelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:
> OK, from what Ed & Tim said, I do want something harder than mild steel,
> so that it won't "yield" as soon as mild steel would.
>
> As to heat treating facilities, well, minimal - maximum heat capability
> is propane forge. Obviously no automatic temp control.

Do you have a firepit?

> As to what I'm making: it's for taking down tin ceilings. The ceilings
> will be salvaged, so the specifics of the tool are needed to minimize
> damage. The bar needs to be about 16" long, to reach over the back of a
> 24" tile. It needs to have a long taper, coming to a thin edge, to work
> under the nails without distorting the tin. One edge needs to be 3/4"
> wide to fit into a nailing space. One end will be straight & the other
> have a 90 degree leg. It will be pulling out 1" long 16 ga nails, so it
> won't have to be very strong - I'm thinking 1/16" thick (from trials
> with a 1/16" thick putty knife).
>
> If it wasn't for the length, I would re-shape the putty knife. Which
> suggests brazing or silver soldering the knife on a longer handle - is
> that doable? How about a 90 bend in it - I assume that would require
> heating to bend, quenching, and tempering?
>
> Thanks,
> Bob
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT-Open Carry in Santa Fe
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/b96fae038b0065f2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 7:21 pm
From: cavelamb

Don Foreman wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 02:00:51 -0700, "azotic" <azotic@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BwQQSo9YX4&feature=player_embedded
>>
>> Best Regards
>> Tom.
>>
> This twerp has an extreme case of "look at me, I'm special", baiting
> and aggrivating a cop by approaching a routine stop with a video
> camera while openly carrying a handgun. Within his legal rights?
> Probably. That doesn't make it excusable behavior. He needs a
> spanking.

Shoulda been don a LONG time ago!

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/

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TOPIC: More Bux
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/be69ea85dc2e9000?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 7:41 pm
From: Cliff

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:50:57 -0500, "Pong Lrick" <ping@pong.net> wrote:

>
>
>"Patriot Games" <Patriot@america.com> wrote in message
>news:719vp5pmh291fjlcg8se4gsc5okoief5kc@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:11:41 -0400, Cliff
>> <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>>On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:00:41 -0500, Patriot Games <Patriot@america.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>>On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:13:24 -0500, Cliff
>>>><Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>>>>http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/83897-palin-to-keynote-nra-meeting
>>>>> "Palin to keynote NRA meeting"
>>>>>[
>>>>>Sarah Palin will deliver the keynote speech at the National Rifle
>>>>>Association's
>>>>>(NRA) annual meeting this spring, the group announced.
>>>>>Palin, who has often spoken of hunting in Alaska, will speak to the
>>>>>convention's
>>>>>May gathering in Charlotte, N.C. The speech gives her the opportunity to
>>>>>burnish
>>>>>her credentials to a key segment of the Republican Party.
>>>>>Gun owners - and the NRA in particular - are very active in Republican
>>>>>primary
>>>>>politics.
>>>>>....
>>>>>]
>>>>> Perhaps she can get paid US$ 250,000 ... plus free guns & ammo.
>>>>Another jealous deadbeat.....
>>>>Poor homo Cliffy....
>>>>hahahahahahha
>>> The more $$ she gets the less you have to spend on even more expensive
>>> guns
>>>& ammo.
>>
>> Poor homo Cliffy....
>>
>> So many beatings and buttfuckings have left homo Cliffy completely
>> stupid...
>>
>
>Funny, he said the beatings made him smart!

Pay Palin & the NRA, suckers <BSEG>.
--
Cliff

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 7:50 pm
From: "Chief Egalitarian"

> On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 18:50:57 -0500, "Pong Lrick" <ping@pong.net> wrote:
>>"Patriot Games" <Patriot@america.com> wrote in message
>>news:719vp5pmh291fjlcg8se4gsc5okoief5kc@4ax.com...
>
>>> Poor homo Cliffy....
>>>
>>> So many beatings and buttfuckings have left homo Cliffy completely
>>> stupid...
>>>
>>
>>Funny, he said the beatings made him smart!

Not working, needs more beatings perhaps.

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TOPIC: The Palin Theocracy
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/304e3ab30773de5c?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 7:45 pm
From: Cliff

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:14:08 -0700, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:06:51 -0400, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>"Mort Davis" <gdindependent@go.com> got double secret probation for
>writing:
>
>>Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>news:lg42q55sti8o4857aei68msq8iv1s6ee6q@4ax.com...
>>
>>Palin must really be something the way left fringer morons rip their own
>>nuts off over her.
>>
>Just look how stupid the wingnuts are when they confuse laughing AT
>them with fear or some other bizarre trait.

Bizarre, which only makes them funnier (though more pathetic).
Downtown Wingerville is an odd place indeed.
It seems to be where every village's lost idiot ends up.
They probably follow the smell.
--
Cliff

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 8:25 pm
From: Aratzio

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 22:45:38 -0400, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> got double secret
probation for writing:

>On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 16:14:08 -0700, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 23:06:51 -0400, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>>"Mort Davis" <gdindependent@go.com> got double secret probation for
>>writing:
>>
>>>Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>>news:lg42q55sti8o4857aei68msq8iv1s6ee6q@4ax.com...
>>>
>>>Palin must really be something the way left fringer morons rip their own
>>>nuts off over her.
>>>
>>Just look how stupid the wingnuts are when they confuse laughing AT
>>them with fear or some other bizarre trait.
>
> Bizarre, which only makes them funnier (though more pathetic).
> Downtown Wingerville is an odd place indeed.
> It seems to be where every village's lost idiot ends up.
> They probably follow the smell.

Type "Wild Alaskan Dingbat" in google. Alan Graysons comments from
Palins's appearance in his district over the weekend.

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TOPIC: WAY OT [OT] Speak Landscaper
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/489b2cc23aed5ac6?hl=en
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== 1 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 8:14 pm
From: Winston

On 3/18/2010 3:58 AM, Joe wrote:
(...)

>> Grrrr. :)
>>
>>
>> --Winston
>
> I say:
> Unless you have a signed contract stating differently, you will get
> your payment after you have finished the job to my satisfaction.

Good idea!

--Winston

== 2 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 8:24 pm
From: Winston

On 3/18/2010 5:46 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

> Buy the idiot a LEVEL, Winnie.

He's got a very nice 4' level.
It worked real well on support posts but somehow
has a problem with grades. :)

It took me only 3 hours to shovel the overburden
off the original grade. It's gonna work much
better, now.

> Did he match it to the actual openable width, at least?

I recovered from that. Walked outside with the sketch.
Looked at the forms. Looked at the sketch.
Looked at landscaper with quizzical grin.

He says "Oh, you want it like *that*?
I smile and nod.

(Remind me: Why did I give him a print to begin with?)

Forms come apart and get reset into nearly proper
position. I now have a place for all my feet and
the landings look very nice.

>> Grrrr. :)
>
> But he's licensed and insured, right? Take him up on it and/or don't
> finish paying him.

Well, it's all recovered now and very near to plan.
I'm about as happy as I can be. :)

> And now a word about going with the lowest bidder...
> (insert implied wisdom of not doing so HERE)

This guy cost me 30% more than the lowest bidder would've.

> P.S: You could always take him back to HD and get a refund.

Naah that would have been the *lowest* bidder.

--Winston

== 3 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 8:29 pm
From: Winston

On 3/18/2010 8:27 AM, Denis G. wrote:

(...)

> Reputation counts too. My wife uses Angie's list and I like to hear
> the "word of mouth" recommendations. I also try to judge people on
> how they answer open-ended questions before saying what I'd like
> done. What would you do here? Have you come across a job like this
> one before? Etc. http://www.boingboing.net/200709201036.jpg

All the while watching for the schmoozer that repeats
stuff back to you so you think he's understanding.

Grrr. :)

That Russell guy was brilliant!
http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Bertrand_Russell/

--Winston

== 4 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 8:30 pm
From: Winston

On 3/18/2010 10:14 AM, Steve Ackman wrote:
> In<l574q5pfl5b6emq1k90vds6113np6f5k8t@4ax.com>, on Thu, 18 Mar 2010
> 05:46:39 -0700, Larry Jaques, ljaques@diversify.invalid wrote:
>
>> But he's licensed and insured, right? Take him up on it and/or don't
>> finish paying him.
>
> Standard disclaimers about teevee, but...
> "Holmes on Homes" (HGTV) would seem to indicate a
> fairly standard contractor response would be to slap
> a lien on your house.

Yup. It happens and you might not find out about it
at a convenient time.

--Winston

== 5 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 8:44 pm
From: Winston

On 3/18/2010 11:27 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
> "Winston"<Winston@bigbrother.net> wrote in message
> news:hnrt7h017qg@news7.newsguy.com...
>> It is all my fault because I am a lousy communicator.
>
> <snip>
>
> Winston, you're probably one of the two people here (the other being Larry)
> who is going to recognize an obscure literary reference to Vladimir
> Nabokov's memoir.<g>

You think too much of me Ed. :)

"Imagination, the supreme delight of the immortal and the immature,
should be limited. In order to enjoy life, we should not enjoy it too much."
-Vladimir Nabokov

--Winston

== 6 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 8:48 pm
From: Winston

On 3/18/2010 6:42 PM, technomaNge wrote:
> Winston wrote:
>
> snip funny incident...
>> Grrrr. :)
>>
>>
>> --Winston
>
> Coulda been worse, how would you like it if your
> house builder did this?
>
> http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=german+house+upside+down&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=

Those are hysterical!

I would've been, too.

--Winston

== 7 of 7 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 9:58 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Winston" <Winston@bigbrother.net> wrote in message
news:hnurub0aq6@news6.newsguy.com...
> On 3/18/2010 11:27 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>> "Winston"<Winston@bigbrother.net> wrote in message
>> news:hnrt7h017qg@news7.newsguy.com...
>>> It is all my fault because I am a lousy communicator.
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> Winston, you're probably one of the two people here (the other being
>> Larry)
>> who is going to recognize an obscure literary reference to Vladimir
>> Nabokov's memoir.<g>
>
> You think too much of me Ed. :)

I don't think so. Speak, Memory. d8-)

>
> "Imagination, the supreme delight of the immortal and the immature,
> should be limited. In order to enjoy life, we should not enjoy it too
> much."
> -Vladimir Nabokov
>
>
>
> --Winston

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Eklind hexagon keys
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6fc88807e0e8f5b4?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 8:27 pm
From: Ned Simmons

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:29:41 +0000, Christopher Tidy
<cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> wrote:

>Ned Simmons wrote:
>> On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 00:49:22 +0000, Christopher Tidy
>> <cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That's not quite ideal, as I'd prefer a metal box, so if anyone knows of
>>>a better brand available in Europe, I'd be interested to hear.
>>
>>
>> Bondhus, bar none.
>> http://www.cromwell.co.uk/BON6026121L
>
>Do Bondhus make keys without the ball end? I don't like ball end keys
>myself.

Yes, they do.

--
Ned Simmons

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TOPIC: Wingers keep lying !!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3e88a3bd89afa214?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 8:51 pm
From: grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)

Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
news:cpc5q5tld66tokt33vml60ts8gb9tirm04@4ax.com:

> BTW, The churches used to have no problem with birth control.
> This is a new 20th century invention & thing for fundies to rant about.
>

Do you ever suffer any embarassment for posting such moronic, ill informed
dreck? The depths of your ignorance rival the Marianas Trench in depth and
darkness.

--
God, guns and guts made America great.

And Janet Napolitano nervous.

Which should tell you all you need to know about Democrats. How can one
restore America to greatness if greatness makes you uncomfortable?

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TOPIC: TurboNut progress
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/136469235bd79231?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 8:52 pm
From: Winston

On 3/17/2010 10:53 AM, steamer wrote:
> --Posted a few photos of my injection molded parts. Will make better
> parts if I can get access to a wire EDM machine to cut a better die than the
> one I can machine on the mill.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/steamboat_ed/4440582361/in/set-72157613636548203/

Very cool, Steamer!

--Winston

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DIY Two-Stroke Engine Construction Methods
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7e49cf5c0ea97580?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 9:18 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:47:40 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Grider Pirate
<james.d.wynhoff@saic.com> scrawled the following:

>Please get a copy (or download) of Gordon Jennings "Two Stroke Tuner's
>Handbook" before starting. It was my 'Bible' when I did two stroke
>performance development for a living.

10 used from $127.66 in the Amazone. <thud>

Somehow, downloading sounds like a better idea.

--
No matter how cynical you are, it is impossible to keep up.
--Lily Tomlin

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TOPIC: What is it? Set 328
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e57e89c6bd2db660?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 9:19 pm
From: "DoN. Nichols"

On 2010-03-18, Rob H. <rhvp65@gmail.com> wrote:
> I need some assistance identifying two of them this week:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/

Posting from rec.crafts.metalworking as always.

1879) Looks like a tent peg designed to sustain a sideways
load on the ring.

1880) Looks to be more decorative than a tool. Perhaps detail
photos of the points and the wide part might show something
else.

1881) Looks like a propane bottle fired heavy-duty soldering iron.
I don't see a flow control knob, so it is either run very
hot all the time, or the knob is on the hidden side.

1882) A pull release for some kind of hitch?

1883) A wine bottle chiller?

1884) either a staple gun or a cable tie tightener.

Now to see what others have suggested.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Republic vs. Democracy {was Re: OT More examples of generosity from
President Obama
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f55b69c41bd9032f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 9:34 pm
From: Hawke

On 3/17/2010 3:02 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
> "Steve Ackman"<steve@SNIP-THIS.twoloonscoffee.com> wrote in message
> news:slrnhq2h3v.m69.steve@sorceror.wizard.dyndns.org...
>> In<Zd7on.102692$Ye4.52775@newsfe11.iad>, on Wed, 17 Mar 2010 12:14:43
>> -0500, William Wixon, wwixon@frontiernet.net wrote:
>>
>>> (all the right wingers are constantly irritatingly reminding everyone
>>> whenever they say we live in a democracy "WE LIVE IN A REPUBLIC!!" as a
>>> way
>>> of reinforcing their right wing point of view. they don't like it when
>>> the
>>> other party is in charge.)
>>
>> I'm not a right winger, and I don't care which side of the
>> Democratic-Republican coin happens to be up at the moment (they're both as
>> evil as the other in their own ways), but...
>>
>> Nowhere in the Constitution does the word "democracy" or "democratic"
>> appear. Guess which word actually *does* appear IN the CONSTITUTION. (*)
>>
>>
>> ? James Madison: "Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and
>> contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or
>> the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives
>> as they have been violent in their deaths" (1787).
>>
>> ? John Adams: "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes,
>> exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not
>> commit suicide" (1814).
>>
>> ? Benjamin Franklin told Philadelphia's Mrs. Powell as he was walking out
>> of the constitutional convention after they had pulled together the
>> Constitution in 1787. She said, "What sort of nation has been conceived?"
>> Ben Franklin replied, "It's a Republic, madam, if you can keep it".
>> [He didn't say "Democracy" did he.]
>>
>> ? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to
>> the republic for which it stands...
>>
>>
>> So, while this abomination of a government to which we find ourselves
>> subject today resembles a democracy more than it ever did in times past,
>> it is still, Constitutionally, a Republic.
>>
>> (*) The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a
>> Republican Form of Government
>>
>
> My hands are shaking as I type this, but what do you mean by a "republic"?
> <g>
>

Now, don't go gettin' 'em started, Ed. It's a pandora's box. It reminds
me of a movie or TV show I saw where two people were arguing over the
words imply and infer. I can't remember what it was but it was like
Abbott and Costello with one yelling inferred and the other shouting
implied back and forth. They did this every time someone used one of the
words. Inferred!, no implied!, no inferred!, implied!. Kind of funny but
nobody's mind was ever changed. So now its republic!, democracy!, no
republic, no democracy!. Some things just aren't worth arguing about.

Hawke

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT More examples of generosity from President Obama
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e33e3d4c5b5a6f9e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 9:46 pm
From: Hawke

On 3/16/2010 3:27 PM, Wes wrote:
> Hawke<davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>
>> You're a pretty naive guy and not well informed about how the government
>> works either. You demonstrate this by your thinking you are seeing
>> something new and different in how the health care bill is taking shape.
>> I have news for you. This is how legislation works in this country. Why
>> do you think they refer to it as "sausage making"? You really think the
>> things going on are so much different from the things that the
>> republicans did when they were in the majority?
>
> I am not naive about how deals get cut. I remember not too long ago the nuclear option
> and the gang of 14 on supreme court nominations. I did not support the nuclear option
> since we all know you may be on top in politics but soon you will be on bottom.
>
> Remember the line item veto where Congress tried to give the President a freer hand at
> trimming the budget? President Clinton would have been the first President to get to use
> it and he wasn't a Republican.
>
> The Republicans got critisided for holding the Medicare vote open for 3 hours.
>
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/13/AR2009021302342.html
> Five hours for Sherrod Brown
>
>
>> They used
>> reconcilliation on numerous occasions to get things passed against the
>> will of the Democrats. They did the same kind of deals and payoffs and
>> arm twisting to get their legislation passed. LBJ is legendary for the
>> lengths he went through to make congressmen vote for his legislation.
>> This process is no worse than it has been in the past. In fact, it's the
>> same as it was in the past. The difference is that you didn't know how
>> it really works and because the republicans are saying it's oh so
>> terrible now you think it really is. Well, it's not. This is just what
>> it takes to get a bill passed when the opposition against it is digging
>> in their heels. You need to stop believing everything you hear coming
>> out of the mouths of republicans. It's all either a gross exaggeration
>> or else an outright lie. They happen to be working for the insurance
>> industry. Try to keep that in mind when you hear republicans whining
>> about how awful the Democrats are. They would do exactly the same thing
>> in their place.
>
> I'm going to disagree with you. The dems are taking congress to places it hasn't been
> before ensuring the race down hill will continue.
>
> Wes
>

The only reason you are saying that is because that is what the
republican opposition is saying. What's going on is both sides are
fighting with everything they have at their disposal. There is no middle
ground on this issue. One side wins and the other loses. It's an all out
battle. Unfortunately, it's one the republicans can't win. The Democrats
have the advantage of being in the majority, which gives them the power
to use all kinds of parliamentary tricks to get what they want. It's the
same no matter who is in power. The republicans have filibustered over
110 times this congress. That's a doubling of the most ever used in
congress and it's being used on things never filibustered before. So
this works both ways. The fact is the Democrats have the majorities in
both houses and the white house. That is supposed to mean something,
specifically that the people gave the Democrats the right and power to
implement their programs and it's the minority republicans who are
thwarting the will of the people. It's the republicans who are trying to
run things despite being the party in the minority. In my book they are
just sore losers. They had the power for eight years and did what they
wanted. Now the shoe is on the other foot and they won't play fair. So
if they get burned by the Democrats, so be it. They have the right to
pass the legislation they were elected to pass.

Hawke

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 18 2010 10:14 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

"Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:EZzon.92534$Up1.5806@en-nntp-09.dc1.easynews.com...
> "John R. Carroll" <jcarroll@ubu,machiningsolution.com> wrote:
>
> Getting back to current events, I still think sweeping change was the
> wrong way to go. Bit
> by bit change, incrementalism, would have been a better plan over the long
> run.
>

"And one more thing: employment-based health insurance, which is already
regulated in a way that mostly prevents this kind of abuse, is unraveling.
Less than half of workers at small businesses were covered last year, down
from 58 percent a decade ago. This means that in the absence of reform, an
ever-growing number of Americans will be at the mercy of the likes of
Assurant Health."
"So what's the answer? Americans overwhelmingly favor guaranteeing coverage
to those with pre-existing conditions - but you can't do that without
pursuing broad-based reform. To make insurance affordable, you have to keep
currently healthy people in the risk pool, which means requiring that
everyone or almost everyone buy coverage. You can't do that without
financial aid to lower-income Americans so that they can pay the premiums.
So you end up with a tripartite policy: elimination of medical
discrimination, mandated coverage, and premium subsidies."

"Or to put it another way, you end up with something like the health care
plan Mitt Romney introduced in Massachusetts in 2006, and the very similar
plan the House either will or won't pass in the next few days. Comprehensive
reform is the only way forward."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/19/opinion/19krugman.html

I don't know what makes you think the bill that's about to become law isn't
just the beginning Wes. We'll certainly see a lot more over the next few
years and you shouldn't be surprised to see a public option and then single
payer at some point in the future.

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Thursday, March 18, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

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