twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 13 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Who will be the first?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f434d5963fd21822?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 7:16 am
From: "Steve B"

"Pinstripe Sniper" <verysorry@nocando.com> wrote in message
news:4bad2f9b.388498187@news.flex.com...
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>You always display a fertile imagination, Dan. Don described a "challenge
>>by
>>fire" as revolution or anarchy. I pointed out that, under US law, it is
>>treason. That's all. The rest is something that happened between your
>>ears.
>
> <cough> I lean toward big business being the corrupting influence on
> big government. So if anything, disrupting government will just make
> it easier for big business to push more stuff their way.
>
> The recent Supreme Court ruling that allows corporate entities to
> directly fund elections (did I get that right?) is the scariest thing
> I've heard of in a while.
>
>
> PsS

Guess you didn't hear about Bill and Hillary's methods of getting
"contributions".

Steve

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 8:16 am
From: wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 00:15:17 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Id estimate 10 million people will be killing Leftwingers.

Aren't you the nitwit who estimated that he'd driven 626 miles per
day, every day for 35 years? And aren't you the BS artist who insists
that he lives on "acreage" that's actually just a small lot? Does the
Flat Earth Society realize that you're a free agent?

Wayne

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What steel for pry bars?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/bcce4853edaf59b5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 7:21 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 10:59:05 -0400, the infamous Bob Engelhardt
<bobengelhardt@comcast.net> scrawled the following:

>Larry Jaques wrote:
>[re - grinding head off nails]
>
>> Were you using a small, sintered carbide ball?
>
>No, but that's a good idea. I was using a cylindrical carbide burr. I
>don't have a carbide ball, but I do have an HSS one that I can use for a
>trial.

And how much harder do you expect the HSS ball to be tahn the head of
a hardened nail, hmmm? There goes a good burr. And when a burr goes,
it sometimes loses pieces. They're dangerous little guys.

Stone burrs can work, too, if someone donates several dozen. They
grind themselves down really fast on metal and also shoot pieces when
they go.

(std disclaimer, googledit) http://www.duragrit.com/ The shape and
type I'm referring to is like these: numbers 10/13/14/18 would work.
Aim for the center of the nail head and the head pops off when you cut
through its thickness, sweet and smooth.

>> (and 3 layers of eye protection?)
>
>Indeed - those burrs send out millions of TINY, needle-like, slivers!

Yeah, nasty stuff which bounces off your cheak, into your glasses and
then right into your eye.

P.S: Don't forget muffs or plugs. It's noisy as hell.

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we
shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do.
-- Samuel Butler

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 7:23 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 07:08:51 -0400, the infamous Bob Engelhardt
<bobengelhardt@comcast.net> scrawled the following:

>Tim Wescott wrote:
>> Place the jaws of the pliers so that they are just over, but not
>> engaging the nail head. Push _up_, _hard_. See if that gives you
>> clearance to grab the head.
>
>No way. But, what DID work was to hold the pliers there and tap _up_
>with a hammer. A mallet, actually, with a head big enough to hit both
>handles at once.
>
>The majority of nails can be pried from behind, but the rusty ones can't
>and this should "work a treat" on them.

Yeah, find a piece of tubing or pipe which is just slightly larger in
diameter than the nail head and create your own puller space.

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we
shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do.
-- Samuel Butler

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Lubricant for plastic on metal
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/4191d621c8f4db86?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 7:24 am
From: RBnDFW

oparr@hotmail.com wrote:
> I have some cheap electrical pushbutton switches that are showing
> signs of wear on the plastic moving part. Also, plastic "dust" is
> fouling the contacts. Would heavy lithium grease, mainly because I
> have lots of it already, be a good candidate here after cleaning?
>
> Also read this while Googling;
>
> "I think this is an area of rapidly diminishing returns. The
> difference
> between a good lubricant, a better lubricant, and the best lubricant
> is
> trivial compared to the differences between lubricated and
> unlubricated"

Silicone spray is what i'd be using.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 8:07 am
From: "oparr@hotmail.com"

> The cheap styrene buttons rubbing on a poorly machined switch barrel are
> the problem. Lubrication does little good when there are burrs and other
> defects scraping the moving parts.

Actually, that's not the problem in this case. It's a push-to-make,
push-to-break switch. The moving contact is a thin metal washer,
literally, with a plastic rod through its center. The washer is
shaving the rod as it moves and the wear pattern is obvious. Granted,
I'm purposely subjecting it to over 100 operations per day, far in
excess of normal usage.

On Mar 25, 9:26 am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 8:10 am
From: "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

"oparr@hotmail.com" <oparr@hotmail.com> fired this volley in news:111dc70b-
62fd-45c5-8c63-fc28c0814012@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com:

> The washer is
> shaving the rod as it moves and the wear pattern is obvious.

And that would be because the hole in the washer was cleanly de-burred,
edges rounded, and sidewalls polished -- or not?

My underlying point was that cheap switches are cheaply made.

Buy some good escapement-operated push-push switches, and they'll last
hundreds of thousands of operations.

LLoyd

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 8:34 am
From: "oparr@hotmail.com"

> And that would be because the hole in the washer was cleanly de-burred,
> edges rounded, and sidewalls polished -- or not?

Not really, it's cleanly deburred, however, the washer being so thin
and the arrangement only centered axially by two springs, it wobbles,
allowing the washer to "whittle" the rod while operating.

> Buy some good escapement-operated push-push switches, and they'll last
> hundreds of thousands of operations.

That's at least 54 years at 5 operations per day. Overkill for the
purpose.

On Mar 25, 11:10 am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 8:35 am
From: "oparr@hotmail.com"

> Silicone spray is what i'd be using.

Thanks guys.

On Mar 25, 10:24 am, RBnDFW <burkhei...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Republican losing streak continues
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/acd15706db55f813?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 7:25 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:34:05 +0000, the infamous Mark Rand
<randm@internettie.co.uk> scrawled the following:

>On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 08:07:16 -0700, Larry Jaques <ljaques@diversify.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 16:46:17 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
>><gunnerasch@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
>>
>
>>>
>>>KY has a number of uses besides a sex aid...
>>
>>Such as? What does it do that Vaseline (at half the price) doesn't?
>>I've kept Vaseline in my toolbox ever since going through auto-trans
>>school.
>>
>
>I did once use it as lubricant for getting a very inflexible motorcycle tyre
>onto an alloy wheel. Hey, it worked! SWMBO did say I could keep the rest of
>the tube in the toolbox :-)

Har! Wimmenz are funny like that. <g>

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we
shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do.
-- Samuel Butler

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ARGH!!! brake controller 104
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0ebf84073fe99e77?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 7:25 am
From: RBnDFW

Karl Townsend wrote:
> I bought a brake controller that uses a sensor in the brake line. Today, I
> took the brake line apart at the master cylinder, installed the "T" and
> sensor. Had my better half pump the brakes while I bled. No big deal, I
> thought.
>
> Well, as soon as I started the truck, the brake warning light came on. So I
> had the better half pump the brakes while I bled a whole can through the
> front wheels. No joy.
>
> I called "the Kid". He said to get a vacuum device from bumper bumper for
> only $20. Well, it was $50. But I got it and bled a can through each front
> wheel. No sign of bubbles at all. Note: the sensor is on the front set on
> the tandem brakes
>
> Still no joy. I got a brake warning light. I just got pissed and called it a
> day. What do I do tomorrow?
>
> Karl

Karl, hazy recollection of this on earlier Fords.
Should be a block on the left fenderwell area with brake lines, 2 in (F
& R) and two out (ditto).
Little capped boss top center, with a wire sticking out. When the
differential gets upset, the sliding valve in the center of that block
moves to one end or the other, and turns on the light.
IIRC, you have to center that piston, leave a tool in there to hold
the piston centered. Bleed the lines, then then reinstall the sensor.
Light should be off then, good to go.

I have a 1996 F350, but it's not where I can look at it right now.
Besides, it has ABS. Not sure your 1993 does. But that may not make a
difference WRT to above procedure, as I think the ABS they used was a
downstream setup.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Advice on truck
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c17af6ad43a25c3b?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 7:30 am
From: Ned Simmons

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 09:05:43 -0500, RBnDFW <burkheimer@gmail.com>
wrote:

>stryped wrote:
>> On Mar 24, 9:16 am, Randy <rbraun...@enter.net> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:09:54 -0700 (PDT), stryped <stryp...@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have available a silver 2006 f-150 4 door short bed for 7,000. It is
>>>> a leased vehicle for a company that my dad works at and has 136,000

>
>If that were local to me, I'd be on it like a duck on a June bug!
>
>I bought my current Ford truck with 192K miles on it, for $4500.
>Now at 223K (?) and still runs like new.

If you don't mind an older truck, I'd hold out for something cheaper.
I paid $4200 for a 12 year old F250 with 79K, no problems and not a
speck of rust.

--
Ned Simmons

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 8:46 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 05:32:43 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins
<kb1dal@gmail.com> scrawled the following:

>On Mar 25, 8:24 am, stryped <stryp...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> ...
>>
>> With 138,000 miles, how long can I get out of this truck do you think?
>> I believe it has the small v8 engine. (4.6 L maybe???)
>
>How well will you take care of it, how much can you repair?

How many times will you guys continue to respond to this known troll?
Dayam!

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we
shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do.
-- Samuel Butler

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Need help with hydraulic cyl rebuild
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/d5286f77ff92de26?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 7:33 am
From: Loki9

Thanks Bubba, that was very helpful. Any tips on how to get the top
end seal out? I might be able to push it out with hydraulic pressure,
though that could get messy. Alternately, I might be able to pull it
out by grabbing the metal part of the seal with some type of puller.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Westec Cruising 2010
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/b1ee9ba1685df310?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 7:39 am
From: Cross-Slide <3t3d@centurytel.net>

On Mar 25, 9:03 am, "\"D\"" <reidmach...@msn.com> wrote:
> On Mar 24, 10:45 pm, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 05:06:50 -0700 (PDT), "bottl...@earthlink.net"
>
> > <bottl...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > >Went to Westec Tuesday. It was held in the South Hall just like the
> > >2009 Westec.
>
> > Any spoor of jb?
> > Greasy spot on the floor?
> > --
> > Cliff
>
> Eerily quiet in the hall, only people making noise were HAAS, there
> didnt seem to be as much excitement as in years past.
> I liked the vise, could see it in use on a 4th axis as a "sideways"
> vise, eg: clamping in "Y" direction, Iv'e had many an occaision to use
> one like that!!
> I did see some empty pizza boxes around the cad-cam area, wasnt sure
> if it was JB's doing, or someone just having fun with an old story.
> lol
>
> "D"

It's been over a month since he has gnawed through the restraints and
drooled on a keyboard.
Tell us about the vise! Is it a Haas, or someone else?
I've always wanted a vise to hold parts "sideways" . Ferinstance, a
long thing part with slits in it, a vise to clamp down on it from the
top, and run a slitting saw through the part.
Something like that?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Women.....
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/b933f45a1ed72efa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 7:40 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:05:11 -0700, the infamous "Steve B"
<deserttraveler@dishymail.net> scrawled the following:

>Megyn Kelly .................... melt ..........................

Ooh, no kidding! http://fwd4.me/6Kg and http://fwd4.me/6Ku
Love that red dress.

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we
shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do.
-- Samuel Butler

==============================================================================
TOPIC: fun with your tractor
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8b925e9e3238029e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 7:46 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 24, 11:16 pm, "Bill Noble" <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=RobaJKGMMiE
>
> --
> Bill -www.wbnoble.com

Amazing!

Rupert didn't even wear a helmet.

The announcer says "Don't do this at home."

jsw

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 7:54 am
From: Ned Simmons

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 07:46:19 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
<kb1dal@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mar 24, 11:16�pm, "Bill Noble" <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=RobaJKGMMiE
>>
>> --
>> Bill �-www.wbnoble.com
>
>Amazing!
>
>Rupert didn't even wear a helmet.

I noticed that, but really, what good would it do?

>
>The announcer says "Don't do this at home."

And then proceeds to walk around under the hoe.

Can I do this with my Farmall Super A? We've got some big pine and
spruce trees. Maybe a mechanized version of an arborist's climbing
gear.<g>

--
Ned Simmons

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 8:06 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 25, 10:54 am, Ned Simmons <n...@nedsim.com> wrote:
> ...
> Can I do this with my Farmall Super A? We've got some big pine and
> spruce trees. Maybe a mechanized version of an arborist's climbing
> gear.<g>
> Ned Simmons

Sure, if you had the funding of a Superbowl commercial.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wetten,_dass..%3F

jsw

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Thread cutting history book on Gutenberg
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c28697566f358480?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 8:11 am
From: "Robert Swinney"

Great link. thnx, Jim. Printed out for my Industrial History assortment.

Bob Swinney
"Jim Wilkins" <kb1dal@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:9c76e4e8-14a2-4033-879e-6425ef9df6a9@f8g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/31756

jsw

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Machine safety
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c8ed0e0e3ad0e725?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 8:14 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 09:45:06 -0600, the infamous "Pete C."
<aux3.DOH.4@snet.net> scrawled the following:

>
>John wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:53:41 +1100, "stu" <no where just yet> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >"cncmillgil" <milgil@cin.net> wrote in message
>> >news:8cd6ca38-8b23-42e8-892d-d1eaaab53be5@r27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>> >Wonder if this could be implemented on other machine tools?
>> >
>> >
>> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
>>
>> One wonders why they removed the guard that is fitted to nearly all
>> table saws and why the blade projected so far through the work when
>> normal practice is to have the blade only high enough to make a clean
>> cut.
>>
>> Unless it was in order to sell a product..
>>
>> John B.
>
>Well, nobody who actually does woodworking with any regularity actually
>installs the guards on their saws since the guards are designed by
>lawyers who have never used a saw in their lives and have no
>understanding of why such guards actually increase the dangers of the
>saw.

If you put your blade up high and put your hand on the wood, it will
smoothly go under the guard and be cut off your wrist. Where guards
are good is if you slip and an appendage lands on the top of the
blade. If the blade is set right, you'll get a nasty cut but not a
severed limb.

>As for not setting the blade height correctly, and presumably also not
>using the feather boards, push sticks and the like that are routinely
>used by people who actually know how to use a saw, that is just the
>usual marketing distortion trying to sell a failed product.

It's not a failed product. His attempt at extortion failed. He wants a
price for the device ($150-200), and the price for licensing is a full
EIGHT PERCENT OF THE SALE PRICE OF THE SAW! It would double the price
for a contractor's saw and add at least $400 to the price of cabinet
saws. The lawyer who invented it priced himself out of the market. As
I said on the Wreck a couple days ago, if he'd really wanted to see
everyone safe, he'd have sold licenses to the mfgrs for a couple grand
and asked a buck or two per unit sold. He'd be set for life and the
device would be on nearly every new saw sold worldwide.

>The big problem is that the developers of these nany-saws are so
>emotionally invested in them that they can't understand why everyone
>isn't jumping to buy them. They have even tried such corrupt practices
>as attempting to get their product to be made mandatory on all saws.

And not only table saws. He'll see them on bandsaws and miter saws,
too. The one thing he can't sue away is the vast amount of stupidity
out there.

>They are basically like religious loons blindly preaching their faith to
>those who are smart enough to see through it, or in this case to those
>who know how to use a table saw and have no use for nany-crap.

Not to mention that the cost of a false stop is $90 for the cartridge
and $120 for a Forrest Woodworker II blade, plus an hour to get them
and an hour to install. <thud>

>A worse situation is with auto airbags, where I have said from the
>beginning that they were a bad idea, it was proven to be a bad idea, but
>they tried to redesign the bags, and now yet again it has been shown
>that they are a failure and are harming more people than they help.

Physical damage or deafness? I understand that they're louder than a
shotgun. I hope to never hear one.

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we
shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do.
-- Samuel Butler

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 8:43 am
From: "Pete C."

Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 09:45:06 -0600, the infamous "Pete C."
> <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net> scrawled the following:
>
> >
> >John wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 13:53:41 +1100, "stu" <no where just yet> wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> >"cncmillgil" <milgil@cin.net> wrote in message
> >> >news:8cd6ca38-8b23-42e8-892d-d1eaaab53be5@r27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> >> >Wonder if this could be implemented on other machine tools?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3mzhvMgrLE&NR=1
> >>
> >> One wonders why they removed the guard that is fitted to nearly all
> >> table saws and why the blade projected so far through the work when
> >> normal practice is to have the blade only high enough to make a clean
> >> cut.
> >>
> >> Unless it was in order to sell a product..
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> >Well, nobody who actually does woodworking with any regularity actually
> >installs the guards on their saws since the guards are designed by
> >lawyers who have never used a saw in their lives and have no
> >understanding of why such guards actually increase the dangers of the
> >saw.
>
> If you put your blade up high and put your hand on the wood, it will
> smoothly go under the guard and be cut off your wrist. Where guards
> are good is if you slip and an appendage lands on the top of the
> blade. If the blade is set right, you'll get a nasty cut but not a
> severed limb.
>
> >As for not setting the blade height correctly, and presumably also not
> >using the feather boards, push sticks and the like that are routinely
> >used by people who actually know how to use a saw, that is just the
> >usual marketing distortion trying to sell a failed product.
>
> It's not a failed product. His attempt at extortion failed. He wants a
> price for the device ($150-200), and the price for licensing is a full
> EIGHT PERCENT OF THE SALE PRICE OF THE SAW! It would double the price
> for a contractor's saw and add at least $400 to the price of cabinet
> saws. The lawyer who invented it priced himself out of the market. As
> I said on the Wreck a couple days ago, if he'd really wanted to see
> everyone safe, he'd have sold licenses to the mfgrs for a couple grand
> and asked a buck or two per unit sold. He'd be set for life and the
> device would be on nearly every new saw sold worldwide.
>
> >The big problem is that the developers of these nany-saws are so
> >emotionally invested in them that they can't understand why everyone
> >isn't jumping to buy them. They have even tried such corrupt practices
> >as attempting to get their product to be made mandatory on all saws.
>
> And not only table saws. He'll see them on bandsaws and miter saws,
> too. The one thing he can't sue away is the vast amount of stupidity
> out there.
>
> >They are basically like religious loons blindly preaching their faith to
> >those who are smart enough to see through it, or in this case to those
> >who know how to use a table saw and have no use for nany-crap.
>
> Not to mention that the cost of a false stop is $90 for the cartridge
> and $120 for a Forrest Woodworker II blade, plus an hour to get them
> and an hour to install. <thud>
>
> >A worse situation is with auto airbags, where I have said from the
> >beginning that they were a bad idea, it was proven to be a bad idea, but
> >they tried to redesign the bags, and now yet again it has been shown
> >that they are a failure and are harming more people than they help.
>
> Physical damage or deafness? I understand that they're louder than a
> shotgun. I hope to never hear one.

Physical injury and even death. There was another study that just came
out that showed that the redesigned airbags are even worse than the
originals.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 8:45 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:46:14 +1100, the infamous "stu" <no where just
yet> scrawled the following:

>Oh ok, the blade appears to stop before it moves down, so I thought that
>there were two mechanisms.
>
>wow I hadn't thought about false triggering at $60US a go. Is there a "test"
>function?

More like $200 a go. Woodworkers use expensive blades and the
replacement cartridge price hasn't gone down, it has gone up to $70
and $90 per. (reg saw/dado) Wet wood can trigger it, too.

Two other niceties for the saw: It's made in China and costs a
minimum of _twice_ the price of a comparable saw.
http://www.sawstop.com/pdf/CanadianWood_Nov08.pdf $1499 sawstop
Contractor saw, (my contractor saw was $139 from Ryobi, Griz gets
$425-700)

$3k for a Sawstop cabinet saw vs $1350 for a Grizzly.

--
If we attend continually and promptly to the little that we can do, we
shall ere long be surprised to find how little remains that we cannot do.
-- Samuel Butler

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Holdnig endmills in Morse tapered holders Re: Am I a fool to buy this
mill/drill?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e9a4f5f7f431a335?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 8:33 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 25, 10:18 am, danmitch <danmi...@umflint.edu> wrote:
> ...
>
> Well, a bigger Morse tape will hold a larger cutter BEFORE the cutting
> forces make it come loose! :-((
>
> ...
> I expect their biggest weakness was in interrupted cuts, where the
> hammering would tend to work them loose.
>
> Today they're mainly a curiosity. I wouldn't recommend using them.
> Considering what a mess a cutter can make if it slips and puuls out in a
> collet, I can't immagine how bad it's be if they pulled out of a taper
> during a heavy cut. It's surely wreck the cutter and work, and maybe
> damage the machine.
>
> The few M2 size I have mostly had soft enough shanks that I drilled and
> tapped most for a 3/8 drawbar.
>
> Dan Mitchell

The B&S #7 taper holding that 2" shell mill is almost identical to
Morse #2.

When a cutter slips down in a collet it's still held tightly. The
Morse or B&S taper releases immediately, at least on my Clausing which
doesn't drive the tang.

I purposely popped the arbor in only by hand and pushed the cut until
the mill vibrated. The milled surface does not show where the arbor
released, there is only a small chip still attached to the far edge.
At that point the bevel no longer pushed the shell mill upwards.

The belts are loose enough to slip, what I meant by 'stalled'.

This was a test, not an endorsement of tanged cutters.

jsw

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Mar 25 2010 8:36 am
From: Ignoramus30639

On 2010-03-25, danmitch <danmitch@umflint.edu> wrote:
> Well, a bigger Morse tape will hold a larger cutter BEFORE the cutting
> forces make it come loose! :-((
>
> These things DO exist (Morse and B&S tapers are all I've seen), and
> WERE used, probably mostly a long time ago. I've seen a bunch of
> such tooling, including milling cutters with integral Morse tapers,
> and NO drawbar threads. IIRC, all these cutters had tanged tapers.
>
> As I said earlier, it CAN work, sometimes, maybe, if the tapers are well
> seated (probaly driven in with a mallet). If you've ever tried to
> UN-seat a well seated Morse taper, you'll know just how tenacious these
> self-locking tapers can be.

Took me at least a minute, and I had to get a 2 lb sledgehammer to get
one of those MT4 holders ouf of an MT5 adaptor.

> I expect their biggest weakness was in interrupted cuts, where the
> hammering would tend to work them loose.
>
> Today they're mainly a curiosity. I wouldn't recommend using them.
> Considering what a mess a cutter can make if it slips and puuls out in a
> collet, I can't immagine how bad it's be if they pulled out of a taper
> during a heavy cut. It's surely wreck the cutter and work, and maybe
> damage the machine.
>
> The few M2 size I have mostly had soft enough shanks that I drilled and
> tapped most for a 3/8 drawbar.

I intuitively agree with you, but I must point out, these holders are
very obviously used and they were used a lot. They also look like they
have not seen crashes. I can take pictures if anyone is interested,
they are quite unusual.

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Thursday, March 25, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

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