twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 17 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Brake Pad options
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/411e47c7b9953b40?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 5:33 pm
From: "Stephen B."

"Brian Lawson" wrote :
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:40:55 -0500, Ned Simmons <news@nedsim.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:09:45 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
>><paul@hovnanian.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>Ned Simmons wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm working on a fail safe brake along the lines of an elevator
>>>>>> safety
>>>>>> brake -- it will prevent a heavy load from falling if the
>>>>>> supporting
>>>>>> roller chain breaks.
>>>
>>>Could this safety engage while the load is moving? Or just lock it
>>>once it
>>>has stopped? That's going to make a big difference in the design,
>>>particularly if it is moving at a pretty good rate.
>>
>>It will only engage if some part of the lifting gear fails (a chain
>>was the example I gave in the original post), or when performing
>>periodic testing.
>
>
> Hey all,
>
> Not sure where this thread emanated, and normally I don't get into
> discussions about elevators, but elevators have "safety devices",
> not
> safety "brakes" as I read here. Elisha Otis developed the "broken
> rope safety" in the late 1800's, and the principal is still used to
> this day on certain parts and on slow speed elevators of <101 FPM.
> This type safety, designated "Type A", is a toothed cam held clear
> by
> the weight of the load on the cable or chain, and which rolls freely
> into engagement immediately that the load is removed by any means.
> This action is by gravity or heavy springs starting the engagement.
> Stopping distance is typically from essentially "zero" to 6 inches.
> The only way to release after application is re-establishing lift on
> the cable (or chain).
>
> Higher speed elevators use a centrifugal trip governor to activate a
> gradual wedge clamp, so the stop is not "instantaneous", which would
> cause structural damage. These are designated as "Type B".
> Stopping
> distances for "Type B" may be from as rapidly as 1 foot and upwards
> of
> 13 feet depending on method, speed, and weight. Both types of
> safety
> action is reactive against the guide rails. In Mr. Otis' case, the
> guide rails of the day were wooden, whereas for many many years now
> the guide rails are a solid steel, shaped as a vertical "T" section.
>
> Geared and gearless elevators do have brakes at the machine of
> course,
> but these operate in a control means rather than as "safeties",
> although a power loss would cause full application of those brakes
> but
> not initiate "the safeties". Since my retirement 10 years ago,
> there has also been an industry effort to provide "cable grippers"
> to
> prevent or stop "uncommanded motion", but while presently workable
> these are still in a development stage, and further
> design/engineering
> is necessary to assure that these don't cause undue damage to the
> cables when applied.
>
> The majority of today's hydraulic elevators have neither "safety
> devices" nor brakes per se, although there is some ongoing work to
> provide some form of overspeed safety device in the event of a
> catastrophic failure, either by grabbing the plunger or even the
> rails
> (as with the geared above) as long as the elevator has solid steel
> rails. Many hydraulics use rails formed from sheet into what is
> called an "Omega" section, and therefore not suitable to the
> crushing
> action of the type A & B .
>
> There is a further "Type C" for elevators over 500 FPM and with
> reduced overtravels, but nothing to do with this thread any=way.
>

Great description of those safeties. I think the cable grippers you
are referring to are these:

http://www.hollisterwhitney.com/products/gripper.html

Which are now regularly installed both in the Canada (where code
required it first) the US and world-wide to prevent "unintended
motion". I think these can accurately be described as "Safety brakes"
because they actually use brake pads to slow the car to a stop over a
controlled distance, as opposed to as fast as possible.

Interesting how terminology changes, I never heard of "uncommanded
motion". I like the term "uncommanded motion".

--
Stephen B.
Remove the first Spam only to e-mail directly

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 5:38 pm
From: "Steve W."

Ned Simmons wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:48:51 -0600, "Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net>
> wrote:
>
>> One column of a two column auto lift will travel at twice the speed,
>> since you will have half the cylinder displacement to fill. A 10,000#
>> rated two column lift carries 5,000# hanging several feet off the
>> column, and with safety margins for overhead lifting (5:1?). Using half
>> an auto lift also provides a complete set of spare parts.
>
> The fastest lifts I saw were too slow by a factor of 5. I only showed
> one column, but there are two.
>

Simple, higher pump output.

--
Steve W.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 6:24 pm
From: "Pete C."

"Steve W." wrote:
>
> Ned Simmons wrote:
> > On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:48:51 -0600, "Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> One column of a two column auto lift will travel at twice the speed,
> >> since you will have half the cylinder displacement to fill. A 10,000#
> >> rated two column lift carries 5,000# hanging several feet off the
> >> column, and with safety margins for overhead lifting (5:1?). Using half
> >> an auto lift also provides a complete set of spare parts.
> >
> > The fastest lifts I saw were too slow by a factor of 5. I only showed
> > one column, but there are two.
> >
>
> Simple, higher pump output.

Exactly, in the new application you'd replace the basic hydraulic power
pack normally mounted on the column, with a "real" industrial hydraulic
power unit with a large tank and probably 10HP+ motor rated for
continuous duty.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Train wreck . . .
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/dae93e33bd54a025?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 10:37 am
From: jeff

On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:55:38 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

>
>Steve B wrote:
>>
>> Robert Swinney wrote:
>> >
>> > Naw! More'n likely the fear of electrocution on the spot. Pssst ! Don't
>> > let the ME terrorists types know about that particular route to martyrdom.
>> > It could ruin their visit with the 72 virgins; depending on which part of
>> > their anatomy they touched first.
>>
>> With my luck, the 72 of them would all look like Hillary Clinton. Enough to
>> make one consider celibacy.
>
>
> That would explain why they were virgins...
no one ever said that they were females.................

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 6:14 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

jeff wrote:
>
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:55:38 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Steve B wrote:
> >>
> >> Robert Swinney wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Naw! More'n likely the fear of electrocution on the spot. Pssst ! Don't
> >> > let the ME terrorists types know about that particular route to martyrdom.
> >> > It could ruin their visit with the 72 virgins; depending on which part of
> >> > their anatomy they touched first.
> >>
> >> With my luck, the 72 of them would all look like Hillary Clinton. Enough to
> >> make one consider celibacy.
> >
> >
> > That would explain why they were virgins...
> no one ever said that they were females.................

Who said they had to be, to look like Hillary?

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What sort of surface plate is this?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c2e43cb2e443c86d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 5:48 pm
From: "anorton"

"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4b9e7c79$0$22512$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>
> "anorton" <anorton@removethis.ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:uKudnb1auKav5QPWnZ2dnUVZ_iydnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>
>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:4b9e4d89$0$31271$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>>
>>> "stu" <no where just yet> wrote in message
>>> news:4b9cc196$0$16520$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>>
>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:4b9c25ba$0$5011$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> "stu" <no where just yet> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4b9c2225$0$1783$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:4b9bf249$0$31281$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message news:...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <pentagrid@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:chpnp5tmli6f21tp685hts7mguookv6r64@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:55:03 +1100, "stu" <no where just yet>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>><pentagrid@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>news:cu3np5la85p48d0vchp58tos9do4fun5me@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:55:17 +1100, "stu" <no where just yet>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>I've just posted a picture in
>>>>>>>>>>>>http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox called
>>>>>>>>>>>>"stusplate"(is it the done thing to put a direct link here?)
>>>>>>>>>>>>As you can see from the reflection of newpaper, the surface has
>>>>>>>>>>>>a very
>>>>>>>>>>>>fine
>>>>>>>>>>>>finish like no surface plate I have ever seen. It comes in a
>>>>>>>>>>>>felt lined
>>>>>>>>>>>>lockable box. Does anyone have any idea what this sort of plate
>>>>>>>>>>>>is?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Could be an optical flat. Your jpg doesn't show the size.
>>>>>>>>>>> Inspection grade optical flats are typically 5 or 6" dia and
>>>>>>>>>>> polished flat to within a fraction of the wavelength of green
>>>>>>>>>>> light.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>>>So that would be pretty flat then lol
>>>>>>>>>>I have two, one is 170mm(7inches) x 35mm(1.5inches) thick. The
>>>>>>>>>>other is
>>>>>>>>>>220mm(9inches) x 35mm(1.5inches)they are labeled "precison plate"
>>>>>>>>>>I thought about optical flats but I thought they were made from
>>>>>>>>>>glass?(although I'm not even sure I've ever seen an optical flat)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Most optical flats are glass or quartz. I have a 6"dia x 1/2"
>>>>>>>>> glass flat. Although your flats are opaque, bearing in mind the
>>>>>>>>> polish, the thickness and the careful packaging, I still think
>>>>>>>>> they are likely to be flat to optical precision standard
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jim.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Stu has a couple of toolmaker's flats. They're made with a surface
>>>>>>>> that allows a gage block to be wrung to the surface, so that clamps
>>>>>>>> aren't needed. It's frequently used in gage labs for qualifying and
>>>>>>>> certifying instruments. Standard sizes are 2" and 4", so Stu's are
>>>>>>>> something pretty special. I've seen them that big, though, in
>>>>>>>> Mitutoyo's qualification lab.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you keep that surface scratch-free, there's no better way to set
>>>>>>>> up a stack of gage blocks to extreme, certifiable, transferable
>>>>>>>> accuracy.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Ed Huntress
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> BTW, I should mention that their original purpose, which is now
>>>>>>> about 30 or 40 years out of date, was to qualify custom gages that
>>>>>>> were used in production manufacturing -- go/no-go snap gages and so
>>>>>>> on.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Ed Huntress
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Ed (and others)
>>>>>> There are some light scratches in the small one, just behind the
>>>>>> person it the photo. I didn't do a very good job cleaning the block
>>>>>> as I wasn't sure what to use. I'm yet to clean the large one, I'll
>>>>>> try to get onto it this evening, but what to use? I'm guessing "kero
>>>>>> and a rag" aren't the done thing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kero and a rag isn't bad at all. Don't use anything the least bit
>>>>> abrasive or corrosive to steel. No Windex. Then lightly oil it with a
>>>>> rag and put it away. Wipe the oil off before using. If you're going to
>>>>> try wringing gage blocks against them, clean with a solvent on the
>>>>> working surface, really well, first. Paint thinner should do it.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe you are right about the "production manufacturing ", they
>>>>>> have a name plate from a wire company where I am guessing they were
>>>>>> used, but they have no other name on them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm try and get some more info on here tonight.
>>>>>> thanks again
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stu
>>>>>
>>>>> You're welcome, Stu. They're interesting tools and they don't take up
>>>>> much room. With scratches, you probably won't get much for them, so
>>>>> you'd might as well keep them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have a set of gage blocks?
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ed Huntress
>>>> I've uploaded a couple of pictures of the large plate after a quick
>>>> clean wipe of kero.
>>>> http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox/stusplatelarge.jpg
>>>> http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox/stusplatelargeb.jpg
>>>> as you can see the isnt as good as the small one. I would think that it
>>>> is still plenty good enough for me. It will be nice to have something
>>>> "flat" in the shed, even if it is a little over the top.
>>>>
>>>> I dont have gauge blocks yet although I am keeping an eye out for some,
>>>> I cant really think of an excuse to buy a new set.
>>>
>>> You may or may not have a need for them, depending upon the kind of work
>>> you do. I don't think most hobbyists need a full set of gage blocks, but
>>> I do find use for a few very good ones, to check my mikes, calipers, and
>>> height gage.
>>>
>>> But those plates you have are not something any of us would really need,
>>> either. They're nice to have. You can get some use out of them, but it's
>>> unlikely you'll be qualifying gages or making production gages. <g>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ed Huntress
>>
>> A flat like this can also be used to set the zero of lapping fixtures
>> like these: http://southbaytech.com/shop/mlp1.shtml . It can also be
>> used for things like setting the zero of a flatness gauge used to qualify
>> lapping plates and surface plates:
>> http://www.southbaytech.com/appnotes/107%2093031%20Flattness%20Monitoring%20Kit.PDF
>> although the spherical contacts might scratch a metal flat.
>
> Interesting stuff. Precision lapping is quite an art. We used to have a
> member here who had quite a bit of experience with it, years ago.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress

I am hardly an expert, but I do have a Lapmaster-12 machine in my garage.
Optical engineering is my profession and I want to convert it to polish
glass.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Atomic lamps?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6b96532de4146a05?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 5:53 pm
From: "Bill Noble"

do an internet search for "Traser watch" - I have one, 1/2 life about a
decade - and very handy

"Chet" <ancr@nospam.centurytel.net> wrote in message
news:BsydncAnwPrCBAPWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@centurytel.net...
> On YouTube I did a serach for NYC railroad films.
> One of those films (1950's New York Central Railroad - The Big Train)
> described the ongoing research done by the New York Central back in the
> 50's:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCeCPrpAK60
> At 8:16 into the film they mention a new type railroad lamp (they show a
> switch lamp) that could be self-powered by atomic energy and would run for
> 7 years...
> What 'atomic' referred to wasn't explained, but I'm wondering if anyone is
> familiar with the process???

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 7:32 pm
From: "Martin H. Eastburn"

I had a TI LCD watch with Tritium in the liquid.
Didn't use a battery to light it up!

Battery was to darken the segments only.

It worked great - alpha particles - the half life
got the watch - dimmer and dimmer. Finally the LCD
would work but only in the sun. And then it was tricky!

Martin

Tim Wescott wrote:
> newshound wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Chet" <ancr@nospam.centurytel.net> wrote in message
>> news:BsydncAnwPrCBAPWnZ2dnUVZ_rGdnZ2d@centurytel.net...
>>> On YouTube I did a serach for NYC railroad films.
>>> One of those films (1950's New York Central Railroad - The Big Train)
>>> described the ongoing research done by the New York Central back in
>>> the 50's:
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCeCPrpAK60
>>> At 8:16 into the film they mention a new type railroad lamp (they
>>> show a switch lamp) that could be self-powered by atomic energy and
>>> would run for 7 years...
>>> What 'atomic' referred to wasn't explained, but I'm wondering if
>>> anyone is familiar with the process???
>> My guess is that it will be a glass tube containing tritium, which is
>> an alpha source, with a phosphor on the inside. These were used in
>> telephone dials in the UK in the 1960's.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritium_illumination
>
> Not Radium?
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Xenon(HID) lighting Q's
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/a0eb676b87e9ee77?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 5:59 pm
From: "Bill Noble"

"Joe" <see_real_one@sig.lin> wrote in message
news:9c4sp5tdtr94566j881e9sj459akrsops9@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 07:57:28 -0700, Larry Jaques
> <ljaques@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 23:48:26 -0700, the infamous vrgolf@hotmail.com
>>scrawled the following:
>>
>>>What is the difference in the bulbs(capsules) that makes one
>>>a 3000K, vs 4300K on up to 12000K?
>>
>>In fluorescents, different phosphor coating formulae on the inside of
>>the glass create different color output. I neon, it's different gases
>>which emit different colors.
>
> Sort of, but not exactly. Properly speaking, neon glows an orange-red
> color (but you knew that). For (nearly) all other colors the gas mix
> is argon with a tiny drop of mercury. The argon provides the initial
> ionization in order to get the mercury to vaporize and ionize. The
> mercury gives off predominately UV emissions, which excite the
> phosphor coating on the inside of the glass tube. The particular
> choice of phosphor is what provides the specific color in non-neon
> "neon" lights (just like regular fluorecent lamps). Ar/Hg in clear
> tubing produces a nice violet light (the UV is filtered out by the
> glass).
>
> Some other options are using Krypton (no Superman jokes, please!) or
> Xenon as fill gases in clear tubing; the Xenon light, though dim, is a
> really cool platinum color. Sometimes Helium is added in Ar/Hg fills
> to provide more reliable starting in really cold temperatures.
>
> Interestingly (well, to me, anyway) is that phosphor coated tubing
> produces a different color if you fill it with neon. A blue tubing
> I've used produces green light when filled with Ne. Some other colors
> just produce a muddy brown color with a Ne fill.
>
> There, that's Neon 101, in capsule form.
>
> [snip]
>
> Joe

if you look up plasma globe, or "eye of the storm" - you will eventually
find a class of devices that use various noble gas mixtures for cool colors
and effects

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Just One Use items
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/609e016466adc86d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 6:00 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> On Mar 14, 6:58 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > ...
> >
> > > How fast do you have to run to out run a bear? Faster than the guy next to you.
> >
> > If the bear doesn't have freinds...
>
> Except for mothers with cubs I think bears avoid each other. There
> aren't too many animals that get along well. Watch a bird feeder for
> instance. Even mating pairs don't share.

They don't have to get along, to hunt.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rush to flee US
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/589453ba81b739ca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 6:03 pm
From: "Bill Noble"

snip

>Most people don't want their
> tax dollars paying for abortions.
snip
>
> RogerN

is it not presumptuous to speak for others whose position you have not
personally verified? It would be honest to say that "you" oppose this.
You, nor I are not authorized to speak for others. If you limit your
remarks to yourself only, is it better to have no health care, or to permit
something which you oppose in a bill.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT be careful driving through Illinoisstan
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/9c17389b1e9d1a9c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 6:05 pm
From: "Up North"

"Mike Henry" <MichaelHenry@msn.com> wrote in message
news:hnmj1301d9b@news4.newsguy.com...
> What part of Wisconsin?
>
> For the eastern part, I-294 to I-80 is good, but parts west (Madison?)
> have other alternatives.

I will be traveling from Minneapolis on I-94 & 90 as far as Madison. The
route from there is still undecided. I have looked at I-39 to I-55 to I-80
and some other routes but I'm open to suggestions.
Steve

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wingers keep lying !!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3e88a3bd89afa214?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 6:09 pm
From: Frito Pendejo

Cliff wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:25:43 -0700, Frito Pendejo <frito@pendejo.com> wrote:
>
>> Cliff wrote:
>>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/06/karl.rove.book/?hpt=T2
>>> ""[D]id Bush lie us into war? Absolutely not," Rove wrote "
>>> ""Would the Iraq War have occurred without WMD? I doubt it," he wrote.
>>> "Congress was very unlikely to have supported the use-of-force resolution
>>> without the threat of WMD."
>> A big lie indeed, since all it takes to get Democrats to rubber-stamp a
>> use-of-force or any other resolution is to attach it to a trillion
>> dollar spending bill.
>
> Find those "WMDs" yet?

You seem to interpret my criticism of Democrats as support for
Republicans. I was merely observing that Bush didn't need to lie about
Iraqi WMDs, since Democrats will rubber-stamp anything containing a
dollar sign and the word 'trillion.'

Bush would have been smart to just insert the use-of-force resolution
into a farm subsidy bill. Democrats don't bother to read the bills the
rubber-stamp, and would never notice.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Machining falling block passage Re: Source for 4340 bar stock?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/670786a6a14e58b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 7:18 pm
From: F. George McDuffee

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:59:59 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
<huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
<snip>
> I'd start with wirecut EDM, leaving about 0.005" on
>each side, and finish with a shaper and lapping.
<snip>
How about making everything slightly undersize and the applying
Moglice or Turcite for the final fit-up. Should be a very slick
action and if the Moglice is only a few thousandths thick the
compression should be tolerable. Anyone know how Moglice/Turcite
is for impact loads? If it works on ultrahigh speed million
dollar machine tools, it should work on an small bore rifle
action.

FYI
http://www.moglice.com/
http://www.neme-s.org/nemes%20gazette_files/G054.PDF
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/turcite-vendors-148557/
http://www.professionalplastics.com/BearingWearResistantPlastics

some hits for <moglice OR turcite "firearms>
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-136620.html

Anyone seen a teflon coated rifle bolt?

Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 6:39 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Louis Ohland" <ohland@charter.net> wrote in message
news:3Bxnn.84189$K81.39623@newsfe18.iad...
> >http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/any-plans-building-falling-block-rifle-148783/<
>
> The newer EDM controllers may have addressed the issues. Maybe.

Oh, the latest and best have. They've been able to produce a near-perfect
surface for at least ten years. But it still takes some expertise with the
particular material. And for a rifle receiver, I'd want to see a test coupon
and photomicrographs.

Or plenty of proof loads run through it. Microcracks are insidious.

--
Ed Huntress

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 7:31 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"F. George McDuffee" <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
news:ksotp5pn3s0hjqkbjslsk2ale6el0tak06@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:59:59 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
> <snip>
>> I'd start with wirecut EDM, leaving about 0.005" on
>>each side, and finish with a shaper and lapping.
> <snip>
> How about making everything slightly undersize and the applying
> Moglice or Turcite for the final fit-up. Should be a very slick
> action and if the Moglice is only a few thousandths thick the
> compression should be tolerable. Anyone know how Moglice/Turcite
> is for impact loads? If it works on ultrahigh speed million
> dollar machine tools, it should work on an small bore rifle
> action.

I really doubt if they'd handle that kind of pressure, George. Their
compression strength for those loaded plastics really isn't very high. If
you figure 40,000 psi over the cartridge head, and then translate that to
the specific load imposed by the back of the block against the receiver,
it's still quite high. It probably would pound the block back over time.

We tend to think of big cartridges as being harder for an action to handle,
but the fact is that small, high-intensity cartridges typically develop more
pressure. Then the size of the cartridge base enters into it. But for
specific loads (psi), small, hot ones can be a problem.

.22 Hornet typically doesn't develop a lot of pressure. But a K-Hornet can.

--
Ed Huntress

>
> FYI
> http://www.moglice.com/
> http://www.neme-s.org/nemes%20gazette_files/G054.PDF
> http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/turcite-vendors-148557/
> http://www.professionalplastics.com/BearingWearResistantPlastics
>
> some hits for <moglice OR turcite "firearms>
> http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-136620.html
>
> Anyone seen a teflon coated rifle bolt?
>
>
>
> Unka George (George McDuffee)
> ..............................
> The past is a foreign country;
> they do things differently there.
> L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
> The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bibles Wanted !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f2e06ad69080532c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 6:22 pm
From: "Pong Lrick"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:eb9tp55io7t3g8qfbd2p92h9e9lul22s6n@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:48:43 -0600, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
> (Gray
> Ghost) wrote:
>
>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>>news:9sf8p5dljf1sm4ip7qvqpp3jl6abqgson1@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 21:58:13 -0600, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
>>> (Gray Ghost) wrote:
>>>
>>>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>>>>news:42s1p55ndjrjo2ackian63ig91i0btfioh@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 13:45:41 -0600, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 12:34:41 -0600, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
>>>>>>(Gray Ghost) wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"lab~rat >:-)" <chase@cheeze.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>news:2ijvo5t4oondqpahjc1qk4rq60li04tq2a@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:44:33 -0600, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>> puked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:13:08 -0500, "lab~rat >:-)"
>>>>>>>>><chase@cheeze.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:01:50 -0600, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>puked:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:12:41 -0500, "lab~rat >:-)"
>>>>>>>>>>><chase@cheeze.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:16:11 -0600, Lookout
>>>>>>>>>>>><mrLookout@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>puked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:37:39 -0500, "lab~rat >:-)"
>>>>>>>>>>>>><chase@cheeze.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 06:55:06 -0500, Cliff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>><Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> puked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/02/national/main626007
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 0. sht ml
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ya know, as an atheist, I really wonder what this group is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thinking about. The whole point of being an atheist is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>distancing yourself from a group of sheep that believe the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>same
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thing, but these assholes seem to be inserting themselves in
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>the community to interfere with those sheep.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>They would be the first ones bitching if xtian groups were out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>there condemning atheists and ridiculing their beliefs, yet
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>there they are prosthelytizing every bit as much as a fucking
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jehovah's Witness standing on your porch Saturday morning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>As I've pointed out atheists are as wrong as theists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>In what regard?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no
>>>>>>>>>>>deities
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>You can't prove there is no god anymore than a theist can prove
>>>>>>>>>>>there is one.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>And furthermore, you can't prove one is more wrong than the other.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Go back and look at what I said. I said they are both just as wrong
>>>>>>>>>as the other.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I saw what you said. I still say you're wrong. It's a logical
>>>>>>>> fallacy to claim that's an absolute. If there WERE a god, and that
>>>>>>>> god was as described by a set religion, then that religion would be
>>>>>>>> LESS wrong than atheism.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You're clearly agnostic as you believe that neither can ever be
>>>>>>>> proven or explained, but your agnostic belief is just as capable of
>>>>>>>> being wrong.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And the statement you should have said was:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Both (atheism) and (christianity) are CAPABLE of being just as
>>>>>>>> wrong as the other.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For now.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>But that being said, stories in the bible can be proven to be
>>>>>>>>>>false.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>And some have some historical references that can be proven.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Clearly. I'm referring more to the magical miracle part that makes
>>>>>>>> the bible a religious book.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Unless you have an astrophysical explanation for how the sun could
>>>>>>>>>>stop in the sky, for example...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> lab~rat >:-)
>>>>>>>> Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yes but given a choice between Marx and Christ it really isn't that
>>>>>>>hard to choose.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>One is real and the other is a myth.
>>>>>
>>>>> Karl Marx was a political economist.
>>>>> Very famous.
>>>>
>>>>He was a leech who lived off of others largess and then whined about his
>>>>inadequacies and inability to do an honest day's labor. The fact that he
>>>>wrote it down to justify it and many idiots have been fooled by his
>>>>idiot
>>>>tirade most likely earned him a special place in Hell.
>>>
>>> Karl Marx earned a living & is famed worldwide.
>>> Has a nice gravemarker too.
>>> Let's see gummer's.
>>
>>What ashcok you're an admirer of Marx. And no he didn't make a living,
>>Engles
>>supported him. His fame comes from having spawned the most soulless and
>>destructive philosophy of the 20th Century that is probably the singlw
>>biggest
>>killer of the century.
>
> He started the winger movement?
> Never knew that.
> Have any cites?
>
>>And his gravesite is probably nice 'cuz of all the people that piss on it.
>
> You don't go in much of education or political or social science I
> gather.
> "Oook Oook" is good enough for you I suppose.
>
>>>>Meanwhile Christ saved the souls of miilions. Yeah tough choice.
>>>
>>> "Kill a commie for Christ."
>>
>>When it comes to killing Commies, any reason is a good reason. the only
>>good
>>commie is a dead commie, preferably mutilated or burned beyond
>>recognition.
>
> Hence they keep bailing out the US.
> Why don't you pay off the debts the wingers ran up?
>
>>>>BTW can you actually "prove" Karl Marx existed, either?
> --
> Cliff

trim

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 7:16 pm
From: "Pong Lrick"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:ri9tp59jnji0e69h578qhp28aik9p9rg3k@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 19:45:18 -0800, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:48:43 -0600, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
>>(Gray Ghost) wrote:
>>
>>>What ashcok you're an admirer of Marx. And no he didn't make a living,
>>>Engles
>>>supported him. His fame comes from having spawned the most soulless and
>>>destructive philosophy of the 20th Century that is probably the singlw
>>>biggest
>>>killer of the century.
>>>
>>>And his gravesite is probably nice 'cuz of all the people that piss on
>>>it.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Meanwhile Christ saved the souls of miilions. Yeah tough choice.
>>>>
>>>> "Kill a commie for Christ."
>>>
>>>When it comes to killing Commies, any reason is a good reason. the only
>>>good
>>>commie is a dead commie, preferably mutilated or burned beyond
>>>recognition.
>>
>>
>>Hear hear!!
>>
>>Gunner, who made a number of really really good Commies in his day.
>>
>
> And ate his kills except for the ears which he kept.
> Did the little girls have ear rings?
> --
> Cliff

trim

==============================================================================
TOPIC: More Bux
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/be69ea85dc2e9000?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 6:25 pm
From: "Pong Lrick"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:0i8tp55s817hleedhems45unam79b31c50@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:00:41 -0500, Patriot Games <Patriot@america.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 01:13:24 -0500, Cliff
>><Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>>>http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/83897-palin-to-keynote-nra-meeting
>>> "Palin to keynote NRA meeting"
>>>[
>>>Sarah Palin will deliver the keynote speech at the National Rifle
>>>Association's
>>>(NRA) annual meeting this spring, the group announced.
>>>Palin, who has often spoken of hunting in Alaska, will speak to the
>>>convention's
>>>May gathering in Charlotte, N.C. The speech gives her the opportunity to
>>>burnish
>>>her credentials to a key segment of the Republican Party.
>>>Gun owners - and the NRA in particular - are very active in Republican
>>>primary
>>>politics.
>>>....
>>>]
>>> Perhaps she can get paid US$ 250,000 ... plus free guns & ammo.
>>
>>Another jealous deadbeat.....
>>
>>Poor homo Cliffy....
>>
>>hahahahahahha
>
> The more $$ she gets the less you have to spend on even more expensive
> guns
> & ammo.
>
> GO PALIN GO !!
> --
> Cliff

trim. Dude, if it isn't a metal group of some sort, then you're postings are
off topic!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Liberals Smarter Than Conservatives
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/30a39cd522bcf038?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 6:27 pm
From: "Pong Lrick"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:nppsp5l5npm5o72lohgvqudpbsmu62vog8@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:30:45 -0700, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 08:03:02 -0400, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> got double secret
>>probation for writing:
>>
>>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:11:14 -0800, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>>Every time you post, you make a fence post look smarter and
>>>>>>>>>smarter.
>>>>>>>>>Even
>>>>>>>>>on the electrical, I claimed a static charge voltage was unknown,
>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>claimed I was wrong and later said the voltage was unknown. Study
>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>fence
>>>>>>>>>post, it doesn't do stupid things like that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, you claimed it went "to who knows where". I said that was
>>>>>>>> wrong. I
>>>>>>>> even gave you one of the simple methods in which an electrostatic
>>>>>>>> potential can dissipate. That you failed to understand the physics
>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>> of no fault of mine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The "where" I was referring to was a voltage, as in where on the
>>>>>>>voltage
>>>>>>>scale, not a physical location.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So your complaint with respect to electrical potentials is that an
>>>>>> undefined variable is not defined?
>>>>>
>>>>>I had no complaint about it, I merely mentioned it and Cliff replied
>>>>>"NOPE".
>>>>>
>>>>>>>People with common sense would not need it
>>>>>>>explained but evidently that excludes you. I said "voltage" floating
>>>>>>>off,
>>>>>>>not electrons or charge floating off.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BWAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAHAAAA*OH SHIT*HAAAAAAAHAAAA*SNORT*HAAAAA
>>>>>> Really, that was common sense? Seriously?
>>>>>
>>>>>Sense that voltage is referring to voltage? Is that difficult to
>>>>>understand.
>>>>
>>>>No, but it is still hilarious.
>>>>
>>>>So, what do you think is the actual difference between charge and
>>>>voltage?
>>>
>>> In a 16 guage solid Copper wire carrying 5 amps how
>>>fast is the average electron moving?
>>
>>It looked like the holes were moving to me.
>>
>>> What is the speed of light?
>>
>>Constant.
>>
>>> If I have a light switch 100 miles from the LED it turns
>>>on how long does it take to get light once I turn
>>>it on?
>>
>>Dunno, how long does it take for the diode to conduct?
>>What is the capacitive load of the line(s)?
>>Are you using switching AC or DC?
>>Any circuitry on the end?
>>Green or Red LED?
>>Normal or superbright?
>>Switched on by logic or direct from source?
>>
>>But you do have photon emmission the instant the LED turns on.
>>
>
> Qs were for Roger, actually.
> I think he's lost somewhere near Akron.
> Perhaps his hallucinations & voices failed him again.
> --
> Cliff

trim

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 7:30 pm
From: Aratzio

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 08:43:41 -0500, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
"RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> got double secret probation for writing:

>
>"Aratzio" <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>news:3d1rp5d92c48u8ja30g4et24gk7lb8hlg2@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 19:41:01 -0500, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>> "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> got double secret probation for writing:
>>
>>>
>>>"Aratzio" <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:9daqp5d9bd2janha8h5htduam44n4en3on@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 08:03:02 -0400, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>>>> Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> got double secret
>>>> probation for writing:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:11:14 -0800, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Every time you post, you make a fence post look smarter and
>>>>>>>>>>>smarter.
>>>>>>>>>>>Even
>>>>>>>>>>>on the electrical, I claimed a static charge voltage was unknown,
>>>>>>>>>>>you
>>>>>>>>>>>claimed I was wrong and later said the voltage was unknown. Study
>>>>>>>>>>>the
>>>>>>>>>>>fence
>>>>>>>>>>>post, it doesn't do stupid things like that.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, you claimed it went "to who knows where". I said that was
>>>>>>>>>> wrong.
>>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>>> even gave you one of the simple methods in which an electrostatic
>>>>>>>>>> potential can dissipate. That you failed to understand the physics
>>>>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> of no fault of mine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The "where" I was referring to was a voltage, as in where on the
>>>>>>>>>voltage
>>>>>>>>>scale, not a physical location.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So your complaint with respect to electrical potentials is that an
>>>>>>>> undefined variable is not defined?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I had no complaint about it, I merely mentioned it and Cliff replied
>>>>>>>"NOPE".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>People with common sense would not need it
>>>>>>>>>explained but evidently that excludes you. I said "voltage"
>>>>>>>>>floating
>>>>>>>>>off,
>>>>>>>>>not electrons or charge floating off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> BWAAAAAHAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAHAAAA*OH SHIT*HAAAAAAAHAAAA*SNORT*HAAAAA
>>>>>>>> Really, that was common sense? Seriously?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Sense that voltage is referring to voltage? Is that difficult to
>>>>>>>understand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No, but it is still hilarious.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>So, what do you think is the actual difference between charge and
>>>>>>voltage?
>>>>>
>>>>> In a 16 guage solid Copper wire carrying 5 amps how
>>>>>fast is the average electron moving?
>>>>
>>>> It looked like the holes were moving to me.
>>>>
>>>>> What is the speed of light?
>>>>
>>>> Constant.
>>>
>>>How does refraction work?
>>>
>> With what?
>
>Light
>
Change in wave.

However, speed of light is a physical constant. Now figure out why
refraction does not change the fact the speed of light is a constant.

I'll bet your common sense says Einstein is wrong.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shop Humor: You're Fired!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/d5dd6e13cda36bd1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 6:47 pm
From: Frank J Warner

In article <hnf2hj$c9v$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Phil Kangas
<pkangas@alphacomm.net> wrote:

> Here's a story I wrote back in jan'06. I'll bet some of
> you can relate, eih? phil ;>))
>
> Yup, you're fired! That's what happened in my shop today.
> I was getting tired of junk crowding me out of work space
> and today was the last straw! Who is the most useless
> around here I asked. My attention was first drawn to that
> old hydraulic bumper jack: what have you done lately that
> justifies your existence? That jack says: well, I've
> been holding your extension cords for some time now.
> Holding cords? Your job is to lift cars by their bumpers
> not hold extension cords! You're fired! Come on out of
> that spot you've been calling home for so long. Come on
> out of there, what's the problem here, stubborn eih? Who's
> hanging onto your leg anyway. Hmmm, there's that gas water
> pump tangled up and won't let go like it's losing an old
> friend! Hey pump you don't belong here either so it's off
> to living in the sauna for you! And out they went, the
> jack to the woodshed and the pump to the sauna. Good
> riddance! Back in the shop the next victim was a huge
> electric motor: what have you done to justify your existence
> here? I've been holding your spare weld cable. Holding cable
> like the jack was holding cords? Naw, wrong answer, you're
> supposed to make things turn with your power but now you
> don't work anymore because you claim your windings are
> shorted and I ain't taking that excuse to live in here so
> you're fired too! Out with you and you get to live in the
> snowbank out back till spring! Back in the shop the stuff
> on the shelf was giggling and chuckling about those guys
> getting the axe. Not so fast you shelf dwellers, you're
> next! Your shelves are gonna get torn down to make room
> for the press and the spare welder, at least they _do_
> something around here. The 4x6 saw was grinning from ear
> to ear hearing all this action and said it was about time
> I took the law into my own hands and cleaned house! The
> saw looked down at it's feet and all the junk iron there
> and said you're next junkpile! I like the work the saw
> does and apologized for letting junk pile up under it.
> So now the other sectors are getting the idea and promised
> to do better. Well I hope so, I'm a bit crabby about now.
> Those books better get up on a new shelf or they are history
> and that applies to all those chunks of round bar too!
> Man, how long has this been going on right under my nose?
> Who dragged this stuff in here, like the Malagutti engine
> case w/o cylinder, the cow barn exhaust fan, the bag of
> rags, the pile of rope tow wheels, deer antlers from '88,
> a quarter gallon of lab grade hydrochloric acid, jeez...!
> Where did all this stuff come from and who brought it here?
> Anyway, the shop is feeling much better already! 05jan06pdk
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I'd say you were fired because you missed that day in third grade when
they explained paragraphs.

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Militant Ignoranti
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/9f00b27969b00d1e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 7:11 pm
From: "Pong Lrick"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:rmesp5pokfsooqmh9r350321bsrc50lqfm@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:05:36 -0500, "§nühw¤£f" <snuhwolf@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> clouded the waters
>>of pure thought with
>>news:vehpp5tbg8u7r20jk5peg8e5hl37eunag2@4ax.com:
>>
>>> http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott/2010/03/the-militant-ign
>>> orati.html "The Militant Ignoranti"
>>> [
>>> Inspirited by Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, and flunkies for the
>>> Discovery Institute, they're out in full cry, trampling through
>>> the hedges and braying derisively at anything that smacks of
>>> science, concern for nature, and a possible infringement on
>>> mankind to muck about as it pleases, regardless of consequences.
>>>
>>> Even so politically innocent a subject as bird mortality triggers
>>> acid reflux from the truth resisters, as pointed out in Mike
>>> McDowell's Digiscoper blog: ......
>>>]
>>>
>>
>>It the anonymity of the medium. Same as with "road rage". People feel
>>insulated in their cars so they act out. Who's going to punch you
>>through a computer monitor?
>>
>>Btw, its an excellent excuse for *not* washing the windows.
>
> Good point.
> Or for birds needing more rapid evolution if they are to survive.
>
> I gather that in the eastern US they are becoming smaller.
> Warming is suspected as the cause.
>
>>
>>^_^
> --
> Cliff

trim

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 7:14 pm
From: "Pong Lrick"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:a7qsp5tlpc157ms79v5ijgq4b772j2mntb@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 22:51:00 -0500, Richard J Kinch <kinch@truetex.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Cliff writes:
>>
>>> ... flunkies for the Discovery Institute ...
>>
>>Say, that would be me! Page 12 here:
>>
>>
>> http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB/filesDB-download.php?command=download&id=619
>
> ??
> --
> Cliff

Richard J. Kinch, Ph.D. Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (Cornell
University);

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: awsome gadget - neat machine
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0360845d7d44226a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 7:17 pm
From: "Royston Vasey"

Someone else posted this link somewhere else. It's half on topic......very
impressive little machine, pity they dont show close ups of the
construction:

Like RC helis? This Hexacopter is amazing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyYujjP5J-k

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT More examples of generosity from President Obama
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e33e3d4c5b5a6f9e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 7:22 pm
From: "RogerN"

"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4b9e5e80$0$4997$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>
> "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> wrote in message
> news:-9qdnbXQx5HcwwDWnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>
>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:4b9bd1c2$0$31262$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>>
<snip>
>>> To me, there are few things sadder than sincere people who get twisted
>>> around the little finger of media pundits because they don't really know
>>> what's in the Constitution, or how Congress works.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ed Huntress
>>
>>
>> If they already have the votes then what is the holdup?
>
> Roger, for God's sake, READ ABOUT CLOTURE AND FILIBUSTER! They have the
> votes to pass the bill (or they did, until they got saddled with trying to
> get the House to approve the Senate version, but that's a consequence,
> itself, of the damned cloture mess).
>
> By asking that question, you're telling us that you don't understand how
> Congress works. Find out. Then we can discuss this intelligently. As it
> is, you're speculating from a foundation of ignorance.
>
> Sorry, but that's the way it is. Find out what you're talking about.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress

Ok, for Cloture they need 60 votes, like I said, they don't have the votes
they need to cram the Planned Parenthood healthcare bill down out throats.
There are some of the Democrats that don't want the Planned Parenthood bill
and are voting no, at least until they get bribed or bought out. The
American people have said no by voting in a Republican that would end their
filibuster proof majority. Few want the Planned Parenthood plan that Obama
is the sock puppet for.

Planned Parenthood is on their website stating what is acceptable and
unacceptable in their healthcare bill and Obama has them come to the White
House so they can instruct him.

RogerN

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Monday, March 15, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 17 topics - digest

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