comp.lang.c - 25 new messages in 6 topics - digest

comp.lang.c
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c?hl=en

comp.lang.c@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Blonde C jokes - 12 messages, 7 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/ad1c486bad884e91?hl=en
* formatting C source code (adding brackets { } to if else ) - 6 messages, 6
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/4240700cc68be88c?hl=en
* Personal attacks by moderators in a moderated group are unprofessional - 1
messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/fcaffc6b8db42751?hl=en
* Pausing screen? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/8b8e7943a28d1f6c?hl=en
* In the Matter of Herb Schildt: a Detailed Analysis of "C: The Complete
Nonsense" - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/caf17fab4e7d8530?hl=en
* OT (was Re: Efficency and the standard library) - 4 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/ad9fea19f2f7dd61?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Blonde C jokes
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/ad1c486bad884e91?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 4 2010 9:28 pm
From: "ng2010"

Malcolm McLean wrote:
> A blonde arrives for her first day as a C programmer. She's given a
> simple job, changing a few error messages in a 10,000 line program.
> After about a hour she hands the code back in. The manager compiles
> it

LOL! That is funny!!

== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 2:01 am
From: August Karlstrom

Malcolm McLean wrote:
> A blonde arrives for her first day as a C programmer. She's given a
> simple job, changing a few error messages in a 10,000 line program.
> After about a hour she hands the code back in.
[...]

Stale sexist jokes. Come on, it's 2010.

August

== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 2:07 am
From: Daniel Giaimo

On 4/5/2010 5:01 AM, August Karlstrom wrote:
> Malcolm McLean wrote:
>> A blonde arrives for her first day as a C programmer. She's given a
>> simple job, changing a few error messages in a 10,000 line program.
>> After about a hour she hands the code back in.
> [...]
>
> Stale sexist jokes. Come on, it's 2010.

How is a blonde joke sexist?

--
Dan G

== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 2:28 am
From: Richard Heathfield

Daniel Giaimo wrote:
> On 4/5/2010 5:01 AM, August Karlstrom wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>> A blonde arrives for her first day as a C programmer. She's given a
>>> simple job, changing a few error messages in a 10,000 line program.
>>> After about a hour she hands the code back in.
>> [...]
>>
>> Stale sexist jokes. Come on, it's 2010.
>
> How is a blonde joke sexist?

It's the E. Male blonds are blond.

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line vacant - apply within

== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 2:38 am
From: Daniel Giaimo

On 4/5/2010 5:28 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> Daniel Giaimo wrote:
>> On 4/5/2010 5:01 AM, August Karlstrom wrote:
>>> Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>>> A blonde arrives for her first day as a C programmer. She's given a
>>>> simple job, changing a few error messages in a 10,000 line program.
>>>> After about a hour she hands the code back in.
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> Stale sexist jokes. Come on, it's 2010.
>>
>> How is a blonde joke sexist?
>
> It's the E. Male blonds are blond.
>

Maybe technically, but I've always understood blond(e) jokes as
referring equally well to either sex. Like the idiot surfer
dude/California girl stereotype

--
Dan G

== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 2:50 am
From: Richard Heathfield

Daniel Giaimo wrote:
> On 4/5/2010 5:28 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> Daniel Giaimo wrote:
>>> On 4/5/2010 5:01 AM, August Karlstrom wrote:
>>>> Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>>>> A blonde arrives for her first day as a C programmer. She's given a
>>>>> simple job, changing a few error messages in a 10,000 line program.
>>>>> After about a hour she hands the code back in.
>>>> [...]
>>>>
>>>> Stale sexist jokes. Come on, it's 2010.
>>>
>>> How is a blonde joke sexist?
>>
>> It's the E. Male blonds are blond.
>>
>
> Maybe technically, but I've always understood blond(e) jokes as
> referring equally well to either sex.

"...her first day..." is a bit of a giveaway to those who miss the 'e'.

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line vacant - apply within

== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 2:56 am
From: Daniel Giaimo

On 4/5/2010 5:50 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
> Daniel Giaimo wrote:
>> On 4/5/2010 5:28 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>> Daniel Giaimo wrote:
>>>> On 4/5/2010 5:01 AM, August Karlstrom wrote:
>>>>> Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>>>>> A blonde arrives for her first day as a C programmer. She's given a
>>>>>> simple job, changing a few error messages in a 10,000 line program.
>>>>>> After about a hour she hands the code back in.
>>>>> [...]
>>>>>
>>>>> Stale sexist jokes. Come on, it's 2010.
>>>>
>>>> How is a blonde joke sexist?
>>>
>>> It's the E. Male blonds are blond.
>>>
>>
>> Maybe technically, but I've always understood blond(e) jokes as
>> referring equally well to either sex.
>
> "...her first day..." is a bit of a giveaway to those who miss the 'e'.
>

Plenty of people use "her", or alternate between "him" and "her" when
they are referring to a person of either gender.

--
Dan G

== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 3:47 am
From: Richard Heathfield

Daniel Giaimo wrote:
> On 4/5/2010 5:50 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>> Daniel Giaimo wrote:
>>> On 4/5/2010 5:28 AM, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>> Daniel Giaimo wrote:
>>>>> On 4/5/2010 5:01 AM, August Karlstrom wrote:
>>>>>> Malcolm McLean wrote:
>>>>>>> A blonde arrives for her first day as a C programmer. She's given a
>>>>>>> simple job, changing a few error messages in a 10,000 line program.
>>>>>>> After about a hour she hands the code back in.
>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stale sexist jokes. Come on, it's 2010.
>>>>>
>>>>> How is a blonde joke sexist?
>>>>
>>>> It's the E. Male blonds are blond.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Maybe technically, but I've always understood blond(e) jokes as
>>> referring equally well to either sex.
>>
>> "...her first day..." is a bit of a giveaway to those who miss the 'e'.
>>
>
> Plenty of people use "her", or alternate between "him" and "her" when
> they are referring to a person of either gender.

Yes. Ignorance is rife. Or perhaps ignorance /are/ rife.

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line vacant - apply within

== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 5:04 am
From: "Ersek, Laszlo"

On Mon, 5 Apr 2010, Richard Heathfield wrote:

> Daniel Giaimo wrote:

>> Plenty of people use "her", or alternate between "him" and "her" when they
>> are referring to a person of either gender.
>
> Yes. Ignorance is rife. Or perhaps ignorance /are/ rife.

Care to elaborate?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun#Alternation

(Thankfully, my mother tongue lacks grammatical gender and gendered
pronouns. (Unfortunately, its other idiosyncrasies more than make up for
it.))

Thanks,
lacos

== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 7:07 am
From: Richard Heathfield

Ersek, Laszlo wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Apr 2010, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>
>> Daniel Giaimo wrote:
>
>>> Plenty of people use "her", or alternate between "him" and "her" when
>>> they are referring to a person of either gender.
>>
>> Yes. Ignorance is rife. Or perhaps ignorance /are/ rife.
>
> Care to elaborate?

Not in a C group, no.

<snip>

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line vacant - apply within

== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 11:37 am
From: "bartc"

"Richard Heathfield" <rjh@see.sig.invalid> wrote in message
news:CJydnfg9j8gBcyTWnZ2dnUVZ8jVi4p2d@bt.com...
> Ersek, Laszlo wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Apr 2010, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>
>>> Daniel Giaimo wrote:
>>
>>>> Plenty of people use "her", or alternate between "him" and "her" when
>>>> they are referring to a person of either gender.
>>>
>>> Yes. Ignorance is rife. Or perhaps ignorance /are/ rife.
>>
>> Care to elaborate?
>
> Not in a C group, no.

There've already been half-a-dozen exchanges which have nothing to do with
C, why stop now when other people are also curious?

--
bartc

== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 10:43 am
From: Keith Thompson

"bartc" <bartc@freeuk.com> writes:
> "Richard Heathfield" <rjh@see.sig.invalid> wrote in message
> news:CJydnfg9j8gBcyTWnZ2dnUVZ8jVi4p2d@bt.com...
>> Ersek, Laszlo wrote:
>>> On Mon, 5 Apr 2010, Richard Heathfield wrote:
>>>
>>>> Daniel Giaimo wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Plenty of people use "her", or alternate between "him" and "her"
>>>>> when they are referring to a person of either gender.
>>>>
>>>> Yes. Ignorance is rife. Or perhaps ignorance /are/ rife.
>>>
>>> Care to elaborate?
>>
>> Not in a C group, no.
>
> There've already been half-a-dozen exchanges which have nothing to do
> with C, why stop now when other people are also curious?

Better late than never.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Nokia
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

==============================================================================
TOPIC: formatting C source code (adding brackets { } to if else )
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/4240700cc68be88c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 4 2010 11:53 pm
From: Gene

On Apr 4, 7:08 pm, tvn <nguyenthanh...@gmail.com> wrote:
> [mod note:  removed "alt.comp.lang.c" because my news server doesn't have it.]
>
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering if there's any C src format that can change something
> like
>
> if (something)
>    if(something)
>       stmt1;
>    else
>       stmt2;
> else
>     stmt3;
>
> into
>
> if (something){
>    if(something){
>       stmt1;
>    }
>    else{
>       stmt2;
>    }}
>
> else{
>     stmt3;
>
> }
>
> I've looked at several ones such as astyle and gnu indent but they
> can't seem to do this.  astyle can put brackets {} if  but only 1
> line
> e.g.,
>
> if (isFoo)
>     isFoo = false;
> becomes:
>
> if (isFoo) {
>     isFoo = false;}
>
> --
> comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: c...@plethora.net -- you must
> have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
> or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line.  Sorry.

The tool TXL would be make it pretty easy to do this. See http://txl.ca
.
--
comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: clcm@plethora.net -- you must
have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. Sorry.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sun, Apr 4 2010 11:53 pm
From: "ng2010"

tvn wrote:
> [mod note: removed "alt.comp.lang.c" because my news server doesn't
> have it.]

Since when is this ng moderated?
--
comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: clcm@plethora.net -- you must
have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. Sorry.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 10:07 am
From: Ian Collins

On 04/ 5/10 06:53 PM, ng2010 wrote:
> tvn wrote:
>> [mod note: removed "alt.comp.lang.c" because my news server doesn't
>> have it.]
>
> Since when is this ng moderated?

Note the cross post.

--
Ian Collins
--
comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: clcm@plethora.net -- you must
have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. Sorry.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 10:07 am
From: Richard Heathfield

ng2010 wrote:
> tvn wrote:
>> [mod note: removed "alt.comp.lang.c" because my news server doesn't
>> have it.]
>
> Since when is this ng moderated?

Since there is no central moderation team for this newsgroup, it has to
be moderated by /all/ its subscribers. Every time you killfile someone,
you are in some small way moderating the group (as seen through your
newsreader).

--
Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
Email: -http://www. +rjh@
"Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
Sig line vacant - apply within
--
comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: clcm@plethora.net -- you must
have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. Sorry.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 10:07 am
From: James Kuyper

ng2010 wrote:
> tvn wrote:
>> [mod note: removed "alt.comp.lang.c" because my news server doesn't
>> have it.]
>
> Since when is this ng moderated?

Check the cross-posting: comp.lang.c.moderated is moderated, odd as that
might seem ;-). I have no idea how the details are handled, but I gather
that if you cross-post to one or more moderated newsgroups, the
moderators from each of those groups must approve it before it becomes
available to the general public.
--
comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: clcm@plethora.net -- you must
have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. Sorry.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 10:08 am
From: Stephen Sprunk

On 05 Apr 2010 01:53, ng2010 wrote:
> tvn wrote:
>> [mod note: removed "alt.comp.lang.c" because my news server doesn't
>> have it.]
>
> Since when is this ng moderated?

Notice the "comp.lang.c.moderated" on the Newsgroups line. That is, as
one would expect from the name, a moderated group.

S

--
Stephen Sprunk "God does not play dice." --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723 "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking
--
comp.lang.c.moderated - moderation address: clcm@plethora.net -- you must
have an appropriate newsgroups line in your header for your mail to be seen,
or the newsgroup name in square brackets in the subject line. Sorry.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Personal attacks by moderators in a moderated group are unprofessional
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/fcaffc6b8db42751?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 2:05 am
From: Qwertyioup

On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 11:32:07 -0700 (PDT), Dr Malcolm McLean
<malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com> wrote:

>On 4 Apr, 18:02, "io_x" <a...@b.c.invalid> wrote:
>> [Qwertyioup]
>> is wrong not offer one escape way, one chance
>> i say: to live and let to live (expecially people that
>> are in trouble)
>>
>I agree.
>Stick to criticisms of Spinoza1111's views on C programming. There's
>no point bringing up other, off-topic issues that none of us here can
>possibly be in a position judge.

Well, yes. But how about you address that suggestion to Nilges?

He's the one who keep introducing personal attacks into every topic.
He's got a library of charges against enemies from his past that he
throws into posts all the time. I realise that it's hopeless to expect
him to stop or respond to any request to prove his assertions, but
every now and then I may put a notice on record that his version of
events is disputed.

Though what do you really expect to see in a topic titled
"Personal attacks by moderators in a moderated group are
unprofessional" but personal smears and flames?

Anyway, with that made clear I hope, I will try to restrain myself
from further pig wrestling.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Pausing screen?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/8b8e7943a28d1f6c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:09 am
From: Kenneth Brody

On 4/2/2010 8:09 PM, Bill Reid wrote:
> On Apr 2, 12:13 pm, Kenneth Brody<kenbr...@spamcop.net> wrote:
>> On 3/28/2010 7:55 PM, Bill Reid wrote:
[...]
>> The statement "if you're running from the console" means "open a console
>> window [typically by running cmd.exe] and run your program within it".
>> Since cmd.exe, which created the console, is still running, the console
>> window is still there.
>>
> Actually, the statement "if you're running from the console"
> is imprecise use of Microsoft terms, which you are perpetuating
> by attempting further obfuscation.

Well, we're not Microsoft. Rather, we're referring to a statement made by a
previous poster, who stated something like "if you're running from the
console, the window won't close when the program exits".

> As I've pointed out repeatedly, Microsoft calls what you
> call a "console" or "console window" the COMMAND PROMPT.

Wrong. Microsoft calls what you get when you run cmd.exe a "command prompt".
However, the window in which the "command prompt", or for that matter, any
other character mode application, displays information is called a "console"
or "console window".

> A "console" is NOT the "command prompt", rather the
> "command prompt" uses a "console" for input/output.

True.

> I
> give you special bonus troll points for using the term
> "running cmd.exe" to expertly muddy up the discussion
> of something that is relatively clear (well, it IS
> Microsoft, so it's not THAT clear).
>
>>> You are thinking of a separate program called the
>>> "MS-DOS Command Prompt" or sumpin' that causes Windows
>>> to create a console for IT, and any program you run in
>>> it uses THAT program's console, so the console only
>>> terminates when THAT program exits.
>>
>> And, BTW, it's not "MS-DOS" any more. The console hasn't been MS-DOS since
>> Win9x (95, 98, Me) days. The NT-based systems (NT, XP, 2000, Vista, Win7,
>> etc.) don't have MS-DOS. (They do have MS-DOS emulators, however. But the
>> console that you get by running cmd.exe is a true Windows application.)
>>
> Boy, what a friggin' treat...I can emulate MS-DOS in
> a TRUE WINDOWS APPLICATION!!!

And, since Windows is no longer sitting on top of MS-DOS, you can't lock up
the entire system by modifying a single byte of memory from within an MS-DOS
application.

--
Kenneth Brody

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In the Matter of Herb Schildt: a Detailed Analysis of "C: The Complete
Nonsense"
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/caf17fab4e7d8530?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:27 am
From: blmblm@myrealbox.com

In article <f68bd6a2-795b-4d8b-92b1-dbfb8a3a031d@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
spinoza1111 <spinoza1111@yahoo.com> wrote:
> The text is on wordpress at
>
> http://spinoza1111.wordpress.com/2010/04/03/in-the-matter-of-herb-schildt-an-analysis-of-c-the-complete-nonsense/
>
> For your convenience in making comments, here is the same text in
> ASCII format.

FSVO "ASCII" (i.e., not the 7-bit version).

> In the Matter of Herb Schildt: an Analysis of "C: the Complete
> Nonsense
>
> Let's now deconstruct Peter Seebach's document "C: the Complete
> Nonsense", an attack on Herb Schildt's first edition of "C: the
> Complete Reference" which in becoming the sole source of subsequent
> claims that Schildt wrote "bad books", which unfairly damaged his good
> name. Let's examine it, line by line.

Others have commented on various parts of critique. I'll try to
address only points that I don't think have been made already.

[ snip ]

> p. 53
>
> printf("%f", sizeof f);
> printf("%d", sizeof(int));
>
> Seebach: "Clearly wrong; sizeof is not a double or float. It is also
> not an int; it is an unsigned integral type, thus, one of unsigned
> char, unsigned short,unsigned int, or unsigned long."
>
> "The only safe way to do this is: printf("%lu", (unsigned long)
> sizeof(int)); while this is larger, a clear explanation of why it is
> required will go a long way towards helping people understand C."
>
> Although I do not know why Herb used %f and %d format codes, he did
> know, as Seebach seems not to, that all ints are floats and all floats
> are doubles in well-structured languages.

On many systems, of course, integers and floating-point values
are represented differently. In that sense, ints are *not*
floats, and even a claim that any int can be represented as,
or converted to, a float depends on the relative sizes of the
two types; if they are the same (as for example they are in Java
[*]), there will be some values that can be exactly represented
as ints but not as floats.

[*] Whether Java meets your criteria for "well-structured language" --
<shrug>

[ snip ]

> Page 163
>
> Schildt: "You may also declare main() as void if it does not return a
> value."
>
> Seebach: "Specifically untrue. ANSI mandates two declarations for
> main, and says that main may have declarations compatible with those.
> Both return int."
>
> C was not standardized at the time this book was written, it existed
> in several different dialects. In fact, I discovered (on behalf, as it
> happens, of John "A Beautiful Mind" Nash) that the Microsoft compiler,
> which many of Schildt's readers were using, is nonstandard at least as
> regards the evaluation of compile-time constant expressions. While it
> has become a Shibboleth or Secret Handshake among non-Microsoft
> Illuminati that you must declare main as int, it's actually better
> style to make it void unless you have an important message, such as
> "up yours!" to the OS.
>
> But this shibboleth has become an article of faith amongst the anti-
> Microsoft crowd who compensate for the meaninglessness of their lives
> and general incompetence by fantasizing that they are Special, and the
> OS gives a hoot.

It may be that all(?) of the ways of invoking a program in a
Windows environment ignore its return value. This is not the
case in all operating systems:

Command shells for UNIX-like systems may (usually do?) provide
access to the return value via an environment variable, and some
shell scripts make use of it. Other mechanisms for invoking
programs (e.g., fork/exec*/waitpid) also provide access to the
return code.

And didn't JCL for the venerable IBM OS/VS operating system(s) use
the value returned by a called program to control execution flow?
That's how I remember it anyway.

To me it seems like good practice to write code that complies with
the requirements of as many environments as possible. <shrug>

[ snip ]

> Hitler was not anonymous; but his followers were, in many cases. And
> Mike Godwin is wrong; the probability of comparision to Hitler in
> online discussions "converges to unity" not because people are being
> shrill and foolish, but because Hitler is our inner troll, as Lanier
> calls it. He's the face in the crowd in Munich in August 1914 baying
> for war who yearns to be on the podium, and non-anonymous.
>
> Actually I should have been able to deduce Fascism from the memory of
> my childhood.

Your childhood? my, you must be older than I thought ....

[ snip ]

> occurring?

but you remembered to double the "r" this time ....

[ snip ]

> embarrassed

and here

[ snip ]

> In Fascism, the nightmare of childhood has
> realized itself.
>
> Theodore Wiesengrund Adorno, Minima Moralia, 1948

*OH!* Those weren't your words, were they? Well, perhaps there
were quotation marks, or indentation, or something identifying this
text as a quotation in the version of this review posted at wordpress.

--
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer: I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT (was Re: Efficency and the standard library)
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/ad9fea19f2f7dd61?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:30 am
From: blmblm@myrealbox.com

In article <slrnhrf31j.mve.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net>,
Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> wrote:
> On 2010-04-03, blmblm myrealbox.com <blmblm@myrealbox.com> wrote:
> > (Maybe the change in subject line will be of some help in improving
> > the S/N ratio .... )
>
> You'd be amazed.
>
> > In article <4ef73fd6-0613-4d19-988e-6aa6bdf2bdc1@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> > spinoza1111 <spinoza1111@yahoo.com> wrote:

[ snip ]

> >> (Betcha didn't know I was a poet. Probably thought I was just a jag.)
>
> > I don't know what "jag" means in context. I am all too aware that
> > you think you are a poet. I don't agree with you on that point,
> > but as noted previously I make no claims about my standing to
> > attempt literary criticism.
>
> I won't either, but I will say that I have shown his doggerel to people
> who have actually obtained some success as poets, and the comment I
> got was "talking to your muse doesn't make you Ezra Pound, although before
> WWI, it might have come close."

I recognize the name Ezra Pound but don't quite understand what this
comment means -- it rather *sounds* as if your poet acquaintances are
saying that spinoza1111's verse might have been publishable a century
or so ago. ?

[ snip ]

> FWIW, you're certainly a solid writer. You don't seem to be trying very
> hard to show off, but that's more a good sign than a bad sign, IMHO.

Thanks for the kind words. "I try"? though sometimes "I'm trying"
might be the better way to say it. :-)

--
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer: I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:30 am
From: blmblm@myrealbox.com

In article <5bb7d7b2-2bca-460b-8259-dbf23edda931@r1g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
spinoza1111 <spinoza1111@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 4, 1:37 am, blm...@myrealbox.com <blm...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
> > (Maybe the change in subject line will be of some help in improving
> > the S/N ratio .... )
> >
> > In article <3c4b75e6-0c88-4f6a-ae9a-71365c7d2...@x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > spinoza1111 <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On Apr 3, 1:49 am, blm...@myrealbox.com <blm...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
> > > > In article <0dfac17f-ca53-40df-b7f0-a669d6d93...@30g2000yqi.googlegroups.com>,

[ snip ]

> > > > > Have you noticed, Ms M, that I don't come in here to win a popularity
> > > > > contest?
> >
> > > > Even someone who doesn't care about winning popularity contests
> > > > might care about whether he/she was communicating effectively
> > > > with his/her audience. (I suspect you don't, but hope springs
> > > > eternal, maybe.) Writing for a hypothetical reader who shares
> > > > your interests and background rather than for your actual readers --
> > > > ah well, to me it doesn't seem like the best use of anyone's
> > > > time, but if that's how you want to spend some of your 168 hours
> > > > per week, well -- <shrug>.
> >
> > > I write, and think, much faster than that,
> >
> > Much faster than what? I have no idea how many hours a week you
> > spend composing Usenet posts, but unless it's zero, well, you're
> > spending some of a finite resource ....
>
> Jesus H. Jumping Christ in a sidecar, the corporation and its notions
> of finite resources invade our dreams. Haven't you ever heard of
> multitasking?

Yes, but I don't believe that it removes all limitations on what
can be accomplished in those 168 hours a week.

> I'm not only defending Schildt, I am defining a whole
> way of destructive herd behavior for my own satisfaction, because at
> Bell Northern Research, corporate fe-males (who happened to be ace
> programmers) came to me in tears for guidance because they were being
> bullied by the people under them with the cooperation of upper male
> management.

[ snip ]

--
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer: I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:33 am
From: blmblm@myrealbox.com

In article <06b18c67-4304-47d7-a5be-70c1a88017e6@10g2000yqq.googlegroups.com>,
spinoza1111 <spinoza1111@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Apr 4, 1:35 am, blm...@myrealbox.com <blm...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
> > (Maybe the change in subject line will be of some help in improving
> > the S/N ratio .... )
> >
> > In article <4ef73fd6-0613-4d19-988e-6aa6bdf2b...@k17g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > spinoza1111 <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > On Apr 3, 1:55 am, blm...@myrealbox.com <blm...@myrealbox.com> wrote:
> > > > In article <ec7956a0-14d5-4abe-a554-2cd96ede4...@i25g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,

[ snip ]

> > > > Good heavens. Your newsreader actually shows you possible typos,
> > > > and you don't fix them?
> >
> > > No, because as I've said, I waste too much time already casting pearls
> > > before swine, and de minimis non curat lex. Your ignorance of the
> > > grammar of "to be" is de maximubbubimustcal,
> >
> > What ignorance is that? The people in alt.usage.english -- and as
> > best I can tell they're pretty reliable -- seem to be agreeing with
> > me and not you.
>
> You need to get out more.

Or you need to actually read some of the posts in the group.

> People on nearly all unmoderated groups and
> groups moderated by the likes of Seebach are in fact posting, with
> exceptions, such as yours truly, because they are unqualified to post
> elsewhere. Furthermore, there is a basic paradox in a snap, culinary
> judgement that a teacher is or is not reliable.

Snap judgment? Oh no, I base my assessment on many years of
following the group, sometimes more carefully than others, and
on whether the regulars generally agree with what I know from
other sources.

> Literally, how would
> you know about the UK plural? You should start reading the Economist
> (in which I noted syntax like "The Labour Party require" in 1979) and
> the BBC today, which regularly uses the plural with the names of
> soccer clubs.

I am aware that UK English usage differs from US English usage with
regard to whether certain words are singular or plural. I just don't
think "part" is such a word.

[ snip ]

> Don't compete with me.

How to answer this rather remarkable directive ....

"Don't give me orders"?

"Why not -- don't you want to lose?"

Nah. If you want to continue this discussion in some venue where it's
more topical, that might be interesting, but I'm already way over quota
with regard to off-topic posts in comp.lang.c.

[ snip ]

> > And? I also don't consider spelling checkers to be all-knowing,
> > but I find them pretty useful in catching typos and otherwise
> > drawing my attention to potential problems. What does the spelling
> > checker do when you type "occurence"? I'm guessing that it flags
> > it -- correctly. That you choose to ignore all warnings because
> > some of them are bogus -- ah well.
>
> Who said I ignore all warnings?

I inferred that from whatever you said upthread; if indeed you
pay attention to *some* warnings from a spelling checker, how do
you decide which ones .... Eh, it hardly matters.

[ snip ]

(There are some points here I'm tempted to pursue further, but --
not here.)

> > If you had done as BruceS did, you would have discovered the
> > meaning of GIYF. Is your point that I should not have used this
> > acronym ("initialism", to the pedantic) without explaining it?
> >
> > [ snip ]
> >
> > > > > "part of the problem are people" is correct
> >
> > > > It will be interesting to find out what the folks in alt.usage.english
> > > > have to say about that.
> >
> > > I don't really care what a bunch of vicious children have to say,
> >
> > On what do you base this assessment of the participants of a.u.e.?
> > It's distinctly at odds with my experience of the group.
>
> I dunno. Solecisms (GIYF is a problem only for the half-educated).
> Pretense masquerading as democracy. Cybernetic mob formation.

And how do you know any of these things happen in a.u.e.?

> > > but
> > > it might be fun to go over there and humiliate the lot of them.
> >
> > It might indeed be quite entertaining to find out what you would
> > make of them, and they of you, not to mention that the standards
> > of topicality are quite relaxed over there.
>
> Gettin' down with the blood and glass, ain't we.

I don't think so. For all I know they might welcome you and agree
with your assessment of your writing skills.

As of earlier today, there had been fewer than half a dozen
responses in a.u.e. to my crossposted article, all of them pretty
mild-mannered. No one seemed to agree with you, but one person
did write:

"C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas de l'anglais."

which I suppose might be admiration ....

[ snip ]

Lots more that would be interesting to pursue, but not here.

> > > "Don't compete with me. I have more experience, and I choose the
> > > weapons." - Dijkstra
> >
> > Would you be willing to supply a source for this quotation? I'm
> > curious about the context.
> >
> Unfortunately, so am I. In reading Dijsktra since 1973, I never saw
> it, and it's on this cheesy page: http://www.nutquote.com/quote/Edsger_Dijkstra.

And you disparage *my* sources. Well, perhaps this one is more reliable
than the URL makes it sound.

> But it certainly sounds like the old mole.

--
B. L. Massingill
ObDisclaimer: I don't speak for my employers; they return the favor.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 10:19 am
From: Seebs

On 2010-04-05, blmblm myrealbox.com <blmblm@myrealbox.com> wrote:
> In article <slrnhrf31j.mve.usenet-nospam@guild.seebs.net>,
> Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> wrote:
>> I won't either, but I will say that I have shown his doggerel to people
>> who have actually obtained some success as poets, and the comment I
>> got was "talking to your muse doesn't make you Ezra Pound, although before
>> WWI, it might have come close."

> I recognize the name Ezra Pound but don't quite understand what this
> comment means -- it rather *sounds* as if your poet acquaintances are
> saying that spinoza1111's verse might have been publishable a century
> or so ago. ?

No, rather that Ezra Pound apparently really SUCKED prior to WWI.

> Thanks for the kind words. "I try"? though sometimes "I'm trying"
> might be the better way to say it. :-)

Heh.

-s
--
Copyright 2010, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!

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