twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 10 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sheet rock screws: fine vs coarse thread?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/405481ecb9601863?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 4:29 pm
From: LSMFT

Stuart Wheaton wrote:
> Ed Huntress wrote:
>> "Existential Angst" <UNfitcat@UNoptonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:4bc4d846$0$21869$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>> Awl --
>>> Purpose? Applications?
>>>
>>> The minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about
>>> .115 (mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and
>>> .090 on the coarse. Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing the following:
>>>
>>> Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
>>> Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal
>>> stud, also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this
>>> particular logic. Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? I've
>>> seen some much heavier than others.
>>>
>>> Coarse thread for particle board et al.
>>>
>>> Fine thread for hardwood.
>>>
>>> Opinions?
>>
>> The Gougeon Brothers of sailboat fame did tests of coarse- versus
>> fine-thread screws in wood back in the '60s. Coarse-thread won. Sheet
>> metal screws beat wood screws in wood every time. That was before
>> sheet rock screws.
>>
>
> www.mcFeelys.com
>
> About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
> far as I'm concerned!
>
> Stuart

I agree. Less hassle getting enough torque. No phillips chatter.

--
LSMFT

I'm trying to think but nothing happens.........

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 4:38 pm
From: JIMMIE

On Apr 13, 7:08 pm, sta...@prolynx.com wrote:
> On Apr 13, 3:37 pm, Stuart Wheaton <sdwhea...@fuse.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ed Huntress wrote:
> > > "Existential Angst" <UNfit...@UNoptonline.net> wrote in message
> > >news:4bc4d846$0$21869$607ed4bc@cv.net...
> > >> Awl --
>
> > >> Purpose? Applications?
>
> > >> The minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
> > >> (mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on
> > >> the coarse. Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.
>
> > >> I'm guessing the following:
>
> > >> Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
> > >> Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
> > >> also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
> > >> logic. Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? I've seen some much
> > >> heavier than others.
>
> > >> Coarse thread for particle board et al.
>
> > >> Fine thread for hardwood.
>
> > >> Opinions?
>
> > > The Gougeon Brothers of sailboat fame did tests of coarse- versus
> > > fine-thread screws in wood back in the '60s. Coarse-thread won. Sheet metal
> > > screws beat wood screws in wood every time. That was before sheet rock
> > > screws.
>
> >www.mcFeelys.com
>
> > About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
> > far as I'm concerned!
>
> > Stuart- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I dunno, I used quite a few pounds of square-drives putting up a
> shed. The drivers didn't wear like a cross-point/Phillips bit would,
> but quite a few heads stripped out or screws snapped off without
> driving home. This was with decking screws, U.S.-made at that. I've
> used a whole lot of regular-type sheetrock screws and didn't have that
> problem. Wore out a bunch of driver bits, but never had a head
> strip. Haven't seen stainless drywall screws or I would have used
> those.
>
> Have a bunch of trim screws off of Fords I picked up in the scrap yard
> that had interesting threads, went into plastic parts. Were multi-
> start threads, one start was coarse and heavy, like a sheetrock screw,
> the other was shallow and thin. Hadn't seen anything like that
> before. Seem to be pretty resistant to vibration, have to tighten up
> the other trim screws after awhile, not those.
>
> Stan

Yeah they do kind of a controlled bind-up but they are bad to strip
out if you put them in and take them out more than a few times. May
work better in wood than they do plastic.

Jimmie

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 5:24 pm
From: Ned Simmons

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:30:38 -0400, Wes
<ClutchAtLycosDotCom@Gmail.com> wrote:

>Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton@fuse.net> wrote:
>
>>About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
>>far as I'm concerned!
>
>Robertson screws are pretty good but the ones with torx heads are really awesome. I
>re-pitched a roof once with adder trusses held on by torx fasteners that screwed into the
>original trusses. Long as they were, they never stripped. Unlike some Robertson screws
>I've used in building decks.

I bought a package of Torx head deck screws for erecting pump staging.
It's nice to not have to push on the driver at all when you're up on a
ladder and reaching as far as you can to fasten the pole braces.
Expensive, but much better than Phillips or Robertsons.

--
Ned Simmons

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 5:24 pm
From: Ted Frater

Wes wrote:
> Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton@fuse.net> wrote:
>
>> About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
>> far as I'm concerned!
>
> Robertson screws are pretty good but the ones with torx heads are really awesome. I
> re-pitched a roof once with adder trusses held on by torx fasteners that screwed into the
> original trusses. Long as they were, they never stripped. Unlike some Robertson screws
> I've used in building decks.
>
> Wes
> --
> "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
> government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
> in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

A couple of yrs ago I built for my daughter's old cottage in Wales some
new kitchen units.
She wanted then out of solid wood, in the medieval style. The framing
was from 4 by 2 with the tops in 2in thick all from cedar inc the doors
which were 1in thick, boards some 20in wide.
These boards were planked up when she was 6 and put by. I used them for
her some 19yrs later!!.The wood came from her school at that time as we
had had the storm of the century and most of the school trees were blown
down. I helped to clear up the resultant damage.
To fix the frame to the top from the underside needed 3&3/4 in screws.
I pilot drilled the 1st 2in through the framing then the remainder
with ,would you believe my 1/2in car wheel nut air hammer. the screw
heads were countersunk no3 pozidrive and nothing put them in better or
faster.
Thought it might just be of interest, as no other power tool would work
to pull them up real tight. Didnt cam out any.
ted
in Dorset
UK

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 7:08 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 18:30:38 -0400, the infamous Wes
<ClutchAtLycosDotCom@Gmail.com> scrawled the following:

Yeah, my head favorites, in order of favor are: Torx, Robertson,
Pozidrive (square and phillips), and Phillips.

For repair work a year or ten later, Robertson/square beats them all.
A nail or screw pushed into the recess removes enough dirt and grit to
allow the drive to remove the screw without stripping. I keep a camera
lens puffer (rubber bulb with small brass tube for blowing) in the
truck for things like that. It saves a whole lot of time and
frustration when you don't have to drill out any hardened screw heads.

--
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace
will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will
blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy,
while cares will drop away from you like the leaves of Autumn.
-- John Muir

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 7:21 pm
From: Stuart Wheaton

DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Apr 13, 5:37 pm, Stuart Wheaton <sdwhea...@fuse.net> wrote:
>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>> "Existential Angst" <UNfit...@UNoptonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:4bc4d846$0$21869$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>>> Awl --
>>>> Purpose? Applications?
>>>> The minor diameter of the fine thread (under 2") appears to be about .115
>>>> (mebbe less, due to inadequate penetration of caliper edge), and .090 on
>>>> the coarse. Ergo, more "grab" with the coarse.
>>>> I'm guessing the following:
>>>> Coarse thread is for sheet rock on metal studs -- more grab on studs.
>>>> Altho framing screws, which afaik are only for metal stud to metal stud,
>>>> also come in coarse and fine thread, so this may muddy this particular
>>>> logic. Mebbe for different gauges of metal studs? I've seen some much
>>>> heavier than others.
>>>> Coarse thread for particle board et al.
>>>> Fine thread for hardwood.
>>>> Opinions?
>>> The Gougeon Brothers of sailboat fame did tests of coarse- versus
>>> fine-thread screws in wood back in the '60s. Coarse-thread won. Sheet metal
>>> screws beat wood screws in wood every time. That was before sheet rock
>>> screws.
>> www.mcFeelys.com
>>
>> About any screw you might want, and square drive is the ONLY option as
>> far as I'm concerned!
>>
>> Stuart- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> re: "square drive is the ONLY option as far as I'm concerned!"
>
> Unless you think you might find yourself with the need to disassemble
> what you've put together and there's a danger of no (or not enough)
> square drive bits being available.
>
> I'm often involved in set-up and tear downs for events where lots of
> dry wall screws are used. You can *always* find a screw gun, usually
> with a # 2 phillips bit already installed, within arm's reach. Try
> locating a square drive bit - and of the right size - when something
> needs to fixed/adjusted with moment's notice.
>
> When it comes to volunteer events like these, you want to go with the
> most common fasteners so that anyone (and everyone) can pitch in. # 2
> phillips screws are still the most common and I don't see that
> changing any time soon - even if square drives are better.
>
>

The problem you mention is easily solved by having a few packages of #2
square drive bits. I work in Theatre, we put up and tear down all the
time, and there is NO comparison, esp if the head has some paint in it.
Also, if a square drive bit becomes slightly worn, it can usually be
re-conditioned enough to finish the show, just by lightly tapping it on
a running belt sander, you can't do that with a phillips. I have known
places that used one type of fastener for all permanent inventory, and
the other fastener for stuff that is meant to last just for the show.
then if only one driver type is on the deck at strike, the good stuff
gets saved.

BTW, screws are a single use item. The biggest source of frustration is
trying to save and re-use screws.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Obama Economy
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0c569c60c84bfd60?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 4:30 pm
From: "Chief Egalitarian"

"Hawke" <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
news:hq0qbl$7u8$2@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>>>
>>> Hey Dan,
>>>
>>> If you are able to tell that Sarah Palin is sadly lacking in the
>>> requisites to be a successful president of the United States then I
>>> doubt that you qualify a right winger. Because the people who think
>>> she'd make a fine president are nothing but right wingers. Nobody else
>>> would think that but them. So I think you're okay.
>>>
>>> Hawke
>>
>> Talk to your hand Hack, while you stare at your pin-up poster of Pelosi.
>> Why does it smell like fish wherever she goes?
>
> Uh, she is a cunt?
>

True dat, but answer the question.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 0bama's crack pipe was more important
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3ca63107cfc4130e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 4:38 pm
From: "Chief Egalitarian"

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/13/AR2010041303067_pf.html

Obama's disregard for media reaches new heights at nuclear summit

By Dana Milbank
Wednesday, April 14, 2010;

World leaders arriving in Washington for President Obama's Nuclear Security
Summit must have felt for a moment that they had instead been transported to
Soviet-era Moscow.

They entered a capital that had become a military encampment, with
camo-wearing military police in Humvees and enough Army vehicles to make it
look like a May Day parade on New York Avenue, where a bicyclist was killed
Monday by a National Guard truck.

In the middle of it all was Obama -- occupant of an office once informally
known as "leader of the free world" -- putting on a clinic for some of the
world's greatest dictators in how to circumvent a free press.

The only part of the summit, other than a post-meeting news conference, that
was visible to the public was Obama's eight-minute opening statement, which
ended with the words: "I'm going to ask that we take a few moments to allow
the press to exit before our first session."

Reporters for foreign outlets, many operating in repressive countries, got
the impression that the vaunted American freedoms are not all they're
cracked up to be.

Yasmeen Alamiri from the Saudi Press Agency got this lesson in press freedom
when trying to cover Obama's opening remarks as part of a limited press
"pool": "The foreign reporters/cameramen were escorted out in under two
minutes, just as the leaders were about to begin, and Obama was going to
make remarks. . . . Sorry, it is what it is."

Alamiri's counterparts from around the world had similar experiences.
Arabic-language MBC TV's Nadia Bilbassy had this to say of Obama's meeting
with the Jordanian king: "We were there for around 30 seconds, not enough
even to notice the color of tie of both presidents. I think blue for the
king."

Lalit K. Jha of the Press Trust of India, at Obama's meeting with the
Pakistani prime minister, reported, "In less than a minute, the pool was
asked to leave." The Yomiuri Shimbun correspondent found that she was
"ushered out about 30 seconds" after arriving for Obama's meeting with the
Malaysian prime minister. Emel Bayrak of Turkey's TRT-Turk went to Obama's
meeting with the president of Armenia but "we had to leave the room again
after less than 40 seconds."

"When you only see the president for 15 or 20 seconds without him asking if
you have any questions, it's very frustrating," said Laura Haim of France's
Canal+, which persuaded the White House to include foreign outlets in the
press pool. "It's very important for this president, who wants to restore
the image of the United States, to have more access."

Obama's official schedule for Tuesday would have pleased China's Central
Committee. Excerpts: "The President will attend the Heads of Delegation
working lunch. This lunch is closed press . . . The President will meet with
Prime Minster Erdogan of Turkey. This meeting is closed press. . . . The
President will attend Plenary Session II of the Nuclear Security Summit.
This session is closed press."

Reporters, even those on the White House beat for two decades, said it was
the most restrictive set of meetings they had ever seen in Washington. They
complained to both the administration and White House Correspondents'
Association, which will discuss the matter Thursday with White House press
secretary Robert Gibbs.

The restrictions have become a common practice for the Obama White House.
When Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu came to the White House a
couple of weeks ago, reporters were kept away. Soon after that, Obama signed
an executive order on abortion, again without any coverage.

Over the weekend, Obama broke with years of protocol and slipped off to a
soccer game without the "protective" pool that is always in the vicinity of
the president in case the unthinkable occurs. Obama joked about it later to
Pakistan's prime minister, saying reporters "were very upset."

In "bilateral" meetings with foreign leaders, presidents usually take
questions, or at least trade statements. But at most of Obama's, there were
only written "readouts":

Canada: "The president and the prime minister noted the enduring strength of
our bilateral partnership." India: "The two leaders vowed to continue to
strengthen the robust relationship between the people of their countries."
Pakistan: "President Obama began by noting that he is very fond of
Pakistan."

Reporters, many in a "filing center" about a quarter-mile away from the
leaders' meetings, relied on dispatches from colleagues allowed in as the
press pool. The dispatches, over three days, were uniform: "They were too
far away to hear conversation. . . . Again, Obama had nothing to say of
substance that pooler heard. . . . We were in for all of 30 seconds. No
news; no quotes and again no statements. . . . Same deal folks."

Finally, Obama walked over to a group of reporters Monday afternoon. Would
he give them an account of his meetings? "I'll let somebody else do it," he
said with a smile.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MANUAL for: SUPERMAX YCM-16VS Mill?? + Qs?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8fae740632a9d77c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 4:39 pm
From: bear

Hi,

Anyone have experience with the SUPERMAX YCM-16VS vertical mill??
(or similar)

Looks a lot like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/YCM-16VS-SUPERMAX-Vertical-Mill-Offered-As-
Is_W0QQitemZ370360702281QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Mills?hash=item563b37d549

Got a pdf of the parts exploded??

Scan?

I've got one coming, I think, with noise in the vari-speed. Need to know
what I am getting into, and what I will have to do to shut it up and
make it run smooth again...

Also, thinking I want to remove the ARM or the HEAD from the *arm*
before I move it... keep the COG low... not sure what is involved with
that?? Should be easy - famous last words??

PLEASE EMAIL ME IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING SOLID TO OFFER?
These days I rarely get back here on USENET... :(

Thanks in advance.

_-_-bear

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 5:32 pm
From: Ned Simmons

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 19:39:53 -0400, bear <newidea@localnet.com> wrote:

>
>Hi,
>
>Anyone have experience with the SUPERMAX YCM-16VS vertical mill??
>(or similar)
>
>Looks a lot like this one:
>http://cgi.ebay.com/YCM-16VS-SUPERMAX-Vertical-Mill-Offered-As-
>Is_W0QQitemZ370360702281QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Mills?hash=item563b37d549
>
>Got a pdf of the parts exploded??
>
>Scan?
>
>I've got one coming, I think, with noise in the vari-speed. Need to know
>what I am getting into, and what I will have to do to shut it up and
>make it run smooth again...
>
>Also, thinking I want to remove the ARM or the HEAD from the *arm*
>before I move it... keep the COG low... not sure what is involved with
>that?? Should be easy - famous last words??
>

I've never found a manual for mine, but I've never looked too hard. An
exploded diagram of a 2J Bridgeport head is good enough for most
purposes.

--
Ned Simmons

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 5:59 pm
From: Ignoramus11847

the best I found was here

http://www.lathes.co.uk/manuals/

MS838 SUPERMAX YCM VS Turret Miller Operator's Instruction,
Maintenance and Illustrated Parts Manual £45

On 2010-04-13, bear <newidea@localnet.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Anyone have experience with the SUPERMAX YCM-16VS vertical mill??
> (or similar)
>
> Looks a lot like this one:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/YCM-16VS-SUPERMAX-Vertical-Mill-Offered-As-
> Is_W0QQitemZ370360702281QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Mills?hash=item563b37d549
>
> Got a pdf of the parts exploded??
>
> Scan?
>
> I've got one coming, I think, with noise in the vari-speed. Need to know
> what I am getting into, and what I will have to do to shut it up and
> make it run smooth again...
>
> Also, thinking I want to remove the ARM or the HEAD from the *arm*
> before I move it... keep the COG low... not sure what is involved with
> that?? Should be easy - famous last words??
>
> PLEASE EMAIL ME IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING SOLID TO OFFER?
> These days I rarely get back here on USENET... :(
>
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> _-_-bear

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 7:08 pm
From: "Karl Townsend"

I have the next size larger, taper 40, with powerfeed on X,Y and knee. One
very nice robust milling machine. Makes a bridgy look wimpy.

Karl

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT- Pension funds
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/afda72696f150c7c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 4:40 pm
From: "azotic"

Here is a warning to us all. The Argentine state is taking control of the
country's privately-managed pension funds in a drastic move to raise cash.

It is a foretaste of what may happen across the world as governments
discover that tax revenue, and discover that the bond markets are unwilling
to plug the gap. The G7 states are already acquiring an unhealthy taste for
the arbitrary seizure of private property.

So, over $29bn of Argentine civic savings are to be used as a funding kitty
for the populist antics of President Cristina Kirchner.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/5504137/Argentina_seizes_pension_funds_to_pay_debts_Whos_next/

Best Regards

Tom.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 5:56 pm
From: Ignoramus11847

This is a very disturbing story.

On 2010-04-13, azotic <azotic@cox.net> wrote:
> Here is a warning to us all. The Argentine state is taking control of the
> country's privately-managed pension funds in a drastic move to raise cash.
>
> It is a foretaste of what may happen across the world as governments
> discover that tax revenue, and discover that the bond markets are unwilling
> to plug the gap. The G7 states are already acquiring an unhealthy taste for
> the arbitrary seizure of private property.
>
> So, over $29bn of Argentine civic savings are to be used as a funding kitty
> for the populist antics of President Cristina Kirchner.
>
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/5504137/Argentina_seizes_pension_funds_to_pay_debts_Whos_next/
>
> Best Regards
>
> Tom.
>
>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 7:10 pm
From: Stuart Wheaton

azotic wrote:
> Here is a warning to us all. The Argentine state is taking control of the
> country's privately-managed pension funds in a drastic move to raise cash.
>
> It is a foretaste of what may happen across the world as governments
> discover that tax revenue, and discover that the bond markets are unwilling
> to plug the gap. The G7 states are already acquiring an unhealthy taste for
> the arbitrary seizure of private property.
>
> So, over $29bn of Argentine civic savings are to be used as a funding kitty
> for the populist antics of President Cristina Kirchner.
>
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/ambroseevans-pritchard/5504137/Argentina_seizes_pension_funds_to_pay_debts_Whos_next/
>
> Best Regards
>
> Tom.
>
>

Hmmm. Here in America the usual approach is that multibillion dollar
corporations declare bankruptcy, dump their pension obligations onto the
government for pennies on the dollar, and then emerge fat and happy.
and the CEO gets a big bonus for 'saving' the company.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Income falls 3.2% during Obama's term
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/92445bd38ee5fb01?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 4:46 pm
From: "Chief Egalitarian"

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/apr/13/personal-income-falls-32-during-obamas-15-months/

Income falls 3.2% during Obama's term

By Joseph Curl

Real personal income for Americans - excluding government payouts such as
Social Security - has fallen by 3.2 percent since President Obama took
office in January 2009, according to the Commerce Department's Bureau of
Economic Analysis.

For comparison, real personal income during the first 15 months in office
for President George W. Bush, who inherited a milder recession from his
predecessor, dropped 0.4 percent. Income excluding government payouts
increased 12.7 percent during Mr. Bush's eight years in office.

"This is hardly surprising," said Douglas Holtz-Eakin, an economist and
former director of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office. "Under
President Obama, only federal spending is going up; jobs, business startups,
and incomes are all down. It is proof that the government can't spend its
way to prosperity."

According to the bureau's statistics, per capita income dropped during 2009
in 47 states, with only modest gains in the other states, West Virginia,
Maine and Maryland. But most of those increases were attributed to rising
income from the government, such as Medicare and unemployment benefits.

Two of the most populous states in the country reported dramatic declines:
Per capita income in California dropped 3.5 percent to $42,325; in New York,
the drop was 3.8 percent to $46,957.

"The evidence from New York and California reinforces a basic lesson: Where
government gets too large, prosperity suffers. Let's hope that the Congress
learns this lesson before it is too late for the country as a whole," said
Mr. Holtz-Eakin, who also served as chief economic policy adviser to Sen.
John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign.

On the campaign trail, Mr. Obama often derided Mr. Bush for what he said
were dramatically falling incomes for workers.

"American families, since George Bush has been in office, have seen average
family incomes go down $2,000," Mr. Obama said in a September 2008 speech on
the economy in Green Bay, Wis.

The bureau, which doesn't compile statistics on "family" income, reported
that per capita income rose during Mr. Bush's two terms, from $29,159 to
$32,632 (using 2005 dollar values as a base). During Mr. Obama's 15 months
in office, per capita income has dropped nearly 1 percent to $32,343.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Who will be the first?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f434d5963fd21822?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 5:02 pm
From: Hawke

>>> Last hospitalization a few weeks ago was $40k for four days........
>>>
>>> Good thing I'm one of the poor people who get "free" insurance.<g>
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>> Oh you evil evil bastard!!
>>
>> Because I had to drop my insurance 3 months before my heart
>> attack,...Ive been attacked repeatedly by the
>> Leftists/Socialists/Marxists here on usenet.
>
> Duh...you said several times over the preceding 8 years that you couldn't
> afford it. Did you get a one-week special or something?
>

He says a lot of things. But only if you're an idiot do you actually
believe any of it.

Hawke

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 5:06 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Hawke" <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
news:hq30n8$2gl$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>
>>>> Last hospitalization a few weeks ago was $40k for four days........
>>>>
>>>> Good thing I'm one of the poor people who get "free" insurance.<g>
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>>
>>> Oh you evil evil bastard!!
>>>
>>> Because I had to drop my insurance 3 months before my heart
>>> attack,...Ive been attacked repeatedly by the
>>> Leftists/Socialists/Marxists here on usenet.
>>
>> Duh...you said several times over the preceding 8 years that you couldn't
>> afford it. Did you get a one-week special or something?
>>
>
> He says a lot of things. But only if you're an idiot do you actually
> believe any of it.
>
> Hawke

I learned not to believe any of it around 8 years ago. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A short story
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/d4610d162edab5dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 5:12 pm
From: "Buerste"

<wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net> wrote in message
news:0vr9s590j819h463714jnen46c6b2uar7a@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:54:23 -0400, "Buerste" <buerste@buerste.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>>news:etWdnUl1V_JvC1nWnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>>> I spent an hour on the phone last week with two actual Marines in
>>> Afghanistan with the 4th LAR.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> John R. Carroll
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Did you tell them how much you hate America and want it changed into a
>>bankrupt Socialist welfare state? Would these two Marines shoot you on
>>sight? Or, would they not waste ordinance and just K-Bar you in the neck?
>>Or, would they just snap you in half? Real Marines don't like
>>Neo-Socialists.
>
> Hey Tom, have you thought about contacting godaddy to see if they want
> to bid on hosting your blog?
>
> Wayne

No, It's difficult to maintain a head of steam. I'm a very jovial guy most
of the time and only poke those I know will have a melt-down in the little
boxes they live in. I'll just stick to a couple of NGs where I have the
worst idiots plonked.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 6:21 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

Wes wrote:
> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>
>> I spent an hour on the phone last week with two actual Marines in
>> Afghanistan with the 4th LAR.
>
> Care to share a synopsis? I'd really like to know how it is going.
> 4th LAR, what is that, it didn't strike bell in my head?
>

http://www.marforres.usmc.mil/4thMarDiv/4thLAR/

They haven't updated the page yet.
SgtMaj Cottle and his driver, Lance Cpl. Rick Centanni, were KIA a month
plus ago.
They were both fine men, good Marines and a credit to both their country and
the uniform.

The IED's in Iraq were generally 20 pounders, #40 tops. They are about #100
in Afghanistan.

--
John R. Carroll

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 6:35 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

Buerste wrote:
> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
> news:etWdnUl1V_JvC1nWnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Steve B wrote:
>>>
>>> (The above may or may not be authentic... sounds plausible)
>>
>> Biggest bunch of bullshit I've seen in a while Steve but it's
>> perfect for jerk off's like yourself.
>>
>> I spent an hour on the phone last week with two actual Marines in
>> Afghanistan with the 4th LAR.
>>
>>
>
> Did you tell them how much you hate America and want it changed into a
> bankrupt Socialist welfare state? Would these two Marines shoot you
> on sight? Or, would they not waste ordinance and just K-Bar you in
> the neck? Or, would they just snap you in half? Real Marines don't
> like Neo-Socialists.

"Only talk when it improves the silence" - Edmund Muskie

I commend that thought to you Tom.

--
John R. Carroll

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 5:50 pm
From: wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 20:12:23 -0400, "Buerste" <buerste@buerste.com>
wrote:

>
><wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net> wrote in message
>news:0vr9s590j819h463714jnen46c6b2uar7a@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 13 Apr 2010 17:54:23 -0400, "Buerste" <buerste@buerste.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>>>news:etWdnUl1V_JvC1nWnZ2dnUVZ_gednZ2d@giganews.com...
>>
>>>> I spent an hour on the phone last week with two actual Marines in
>>>> Afghanistan with the 4th LAR.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> John R. Carroll
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>Did you tell them how much you hate America and want it changed into a
>>>bankrupt Socialist welfare state? Would these two Marines shoot you on
>>>sight? Or, would they not waste ordinance and just K-Bar you in the neck?
>>>Or, would they just snap you in half? Real Marines don't like
>>>Neo-Socialists.
>>
>> Hey Tom, have you thought about contacting godaddy to see if they want
>> to bid on hosting your blog?
>>
>> Wayne
>
>No, It's difficult to maintain a head of steam. I'm a very jovial guy most
>of the time

That's hard to believe. Is it as true as what you wrote above?

>and only poke those I know will have a melt-down in the little
>boxes they live in.

You're the one melting down. How long before you start telling stories
about fending off 2' centipedes and bench pressing 800 pounds?

> I'll just stick to a couple of NGs where I have the
>worst idiots plonked.

Post it anywhere you like, but it will be still be total crap.

Wayne

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 8:17 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

Ignoramus11847 wrote:
> On 2010-04-13, Wes <ClutchAtLycosDotCom@Gmail.com> wrote:
>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>>
>>> I spent an hour on the phone last week with two actual Marines in
>>> Afghanistan with the 4th LAR.
>>
>> Care to share a synopsis? I'd really like to know how it is going.
>> 4th LAR, what is that, it didn't strike bell in my head?
>>
>
> I second that.

H&S Co. is doing interdiction missions, they are hard against the Pakistan
border, from Khan Neshin and they will be rotating back to the States
shortly.
It's hot - 120 F - during the day and there is a lot of dust.
LOL
They have two seasons, hot blowing dust followed by rain and mud. That
varies depending on where, exactly, you are.
The mountains are another matter and don't count. It's no man's land.

The regular Afghan Army is an excellent, well equipped and disciplined
fighting force. As good as there is.

The general population are just like people everywhere. They are poor but
care about the same things anyone does.
Food on the table and the well being of their children and so forth. They
are friendly, approachable and generous.
Like all people anywhere caught in a gang war, they normally keep their
heads down and go about their daily business as best they can.
They would like for things be calm and absent that they try and stay out of
the way, unnoticed.

The district/regional/national police, the politician's, and many of the
local militia's are as corrupt as can be, gangsters really. Afghanistan is
little more than an organized criminal enterprise. Nothing has changed in
this regard since the last super power visited Afghanistan. This guy Karzai
is just our "Don" and there is little reason to think that change is in the
air.

Beyond that there isn't much I could, or would, have to say.
Well, maybe just one thing.
I'll be glad to see our guys home, and that's what they are. Our guys, not
mine.

--
John R. Carroll

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Flashlights, old style, hundreds of them...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3480d09a73967956?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 5:18 pm
From: aemeijers

The Daring Dufas wrote:
> aemeijers wrote:
>> The Daring Dufas wrote:
>>> Joe AutoDrill wrote:
>>>> Donate them!
>>>>
>>>> www.lifeforghana.com
>>>>
>>>> I'll take them all and give you a receipt too.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Joe Agro, Jr.
>>>> (800) 871-5022
>>>> 01.908.542.0244
>>>> Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
>>>> Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
>>>> Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
>>>> Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
>>>> VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
>>>>
>>>> V8013-R
>>>>
>>>
>>> That kind of reminds me of The National Lampoon's "Mail
>>> a meal" campaign from the early 1970's. If a kid didn't
>>> want to eat his broccoli, he could mail it to the starving
>>> children in Africa. I haven't read one of their magazines
>>> in years, I hope they are still blatantly politically
>>> incorrect.
>>>
>>> TDD
>>
>> Sadly, they went belly up years ago. Cable TV and Internet proved too
>> much competition for the amusement dollar. (MAD magazine will likely
>> follow them to that great newsstand in the sky shortly. They are down
>> to a quarterly publication at this point. In publishing world, that
>> means 'start sending out resumes'.)
>>
>> Their most reliable brain, PJ O'Rourke, is still out there, though.
>> You can google his name for more recent biting satire.
>>
>
> It's a shame in a way but since I got on to BBS's then The Interweb,
> I read a write more than I did when I was in college. I used to live
> in the various libraries when I was in school. Now If I want to know
> something, I switch on the computer and have a world of information
> at my fingertips. The only problem is having to filter out the huge
> steaming piles of male bovine droppings. *snicker*
>
> TDD

Not to mention, you have to keep reminding yourself that not all
information is on the 'net, Older stuff especially, will likely never be
on the internet. Just because Google and Bing can't find a fact does not
mean it isn't out there.

--
aem sends...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT-Arm Yourselves OT tea party militia in oklahoma aka "it's starting"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f6618dcf1fcd8b2a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 13 2010 7:02 pm
From: "Chief Egalitarian"

"William Wixon" <wwixon@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:Cp%wn.181091$2r7.164730@newsfe05.iad...
> it'll be ironic if when the time comes for them to select a color for
> their shirts if they pick "brown".
>
> http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/04/12/2109111/lawmakers-tea-party-leaders-in.html
>
>
>

Naw, that's 0bama's colors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp2VFN-w9d0

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Tuesday, April 13, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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