comp.lang.c - 24 new messages in 10 topics - digest

comp.lang.c
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c?hl=en

comp.lang.c@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* seebs/schildt II - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/c86133d7ad6b90c2?hl=en
* question - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/4c7d70ccf9ccb9d9?hl=en
* ◣┲◥◢→Discount Wholesale Brand JEANS : Evisu,True Religion,Bape,D&G,Artful
Dodger,Red Monkey,LRG, D&G Jeans,APE Jean,BBC Jeans,Antik Jean.Recover,
ENYCEROCK Jean,Rock Republic Jeans,DIESEL Jeans,ARMANI Jeans,RMC Jeans (www.
fjrjtrade.com) - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/fc40e103741944a1?hl=en
* Seebach and Wikipedia - 6 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/baaefd8c63950c72?hl=en
* small question - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/08850414dcd0b366?hl=en
* Test of a preprocessor symbol defined as nothing vs. zero - 1 messages, 1
author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/8e4236bf3f19c661?hl=en
* Generic linked list with internal storage? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/d36ff63bef634bcc?hl=en
* Endless arguing - 5 messages, 4 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/a99361379a499175?hl=en
* lvalues and rvalues - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/0bcad112a3ad97f0?hl=en
* Son of Snarky Tirade: a response to Seebach's new CTCN: part 1 - 5 messages,
2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/383e6d5a95dc3f75?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: seebs/schildt II
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/c86133d7ad6b90c2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 5:33 pm
From: spinoza1111

On Apr 13, 3:59 am, Seebs <usenet-nos...@seebs.net> wrote:
> On 2010-04-12, William Hughes <wpihug...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 12, 1:34 pm, spinoza1111 <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> ><snip>
> >> ..constructive discourse (such as the fact that
> >> the purpose of int main() is to make Linux into a standard, or the
> >> fact that C semantics was not defined properly in C99 owing to vendor
> >> greed)
> > The mind boggles.
>
> Yes, rather.  The return type of main predates Linux by upwards of a decade.

Yes, because Torvalds essentially stole unix, a 1970s operating
system, from the author of a book about unix for the PC, a unix called
Minix. I had that book and was shocked that Torvalds would so steal
the work of another, but it seems that computer authors are fair game
for bullying and theft. Gates was right in 1976; most "hackers" are
criminals. Most are common thieves, others are stalkers.

> The "vendor greed" thing... well, he's been asked before, and he's never
> produced a shred of evidence, nor addressed the obvious fact that, if vendors
> wanted to save work, there are a lot of features that would not have been
> proposed and expanded on by vendors.

Can you identify some of them? They are outweighed by the situations
in which you declared that common constructs such as the void main
were invalid even when the final standard says (clumsily) that they
are, hosted v freestanding being the clumsy result of the Linux bigots
insistence on a crazy legacy feature. They are outweighed by the
instances of nondeterministic semantics.
>
> -s
> --
> Copyright 2010, all wrongs reversed.  Peter Seebach / usenet-nos...@seebs.nethttp://www.seebs.net/log/<-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictureshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 5:34 pm
From: spinoza1111

On Apr 13, 6:18 am, Tim Streater <timstrea...@waitrose.com> wrote:
> In article
> <75b624af-5e23-49c9-b6a0-f96137959...@g9g2000vba.googlegroups.com>,
>  William Hughes <wpihug...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Apr 12, 1:34 pm, spinoza1111 <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > <snip>
>
> > > ..constructive discourse (such as the fact that
> > > the purpose of int main() is to make Linux into a standard, or the
> > > fact that C semantics was not defined properly in C99 owing to vendor
> > > greed)
>
> > The mind boggles.
>
> Even better than that was the bit about DOS being a form of unix.

It was well known at the time (I was in graduate school) that the guy
who developed MS-DOS used some concepts of unix, badly.
>
> --
> Tim
>
> "That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed,
> nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted"  --  Bill of Rights 1689

==============================================================================
TOPIC: question
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/4c7d70ccf9ccb9d9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 5:55 pm
From: Uno

Richard Heathfield wrote:
> Nick Keighley wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Yeah maths use matrix or vector for the 1D case.
>
> AFAICR, in mathematics the word "vector" is used for 1D, and "matrix"
> for 2D. "Tensor" is used for higher dimensions (3+).
>

Right. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensor

Einstein was careful to attribute to Mssrs. Ricci, Levi, and Civita that
they had already brought tensors to bear on theoretical physics. At
that link Einstein writes the following to the latter 2:

"I admire the elegance of your method of computation; it must be nice to
ride through these fields upon the horse of true mathematics while the
like of us have to make our way laboriously on foot."

In 1916, he also attributes to Minkowski, who had called Einstein "a
lazy dog." Einstein was visibly exhausted after this effort, proving
that dogs are instrumental in huge physics advances. I'm glad
Schroedinger killed the cat instead of a dog or a horse.

Less well known is the attribution to Christoffel, whom I don't know.
Riemann gets a well-deserved mention for his contributions to
differential geometry.

The final attribution, going by decreasing date of birth of contributor,
is Gauss, who lives everywhere in mathematics.
--
Uno

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ◣┲◥◢→Discount Wholesale Brand JEANS : Evisu,True Religion,Bape,D&G,
Artful Dodger,Red Monkey,LRG, D&G Jeans,APE Jean,BBC Jeans,Antik Jean.Recover,
ENYCEROCK Jean,Rock Republic Jeans,DIESEL Jeans,ARMANI Jeans,RMC Jeans (www.
fjrjtrade.com)
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/fc40e103741944a1?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 6:04 pm
From: nice

◣┲◥◢→Discount Wholesale Brand JEANS : Evisu,True
Religion,Bape,D&G,Artful Dodger,Red Monkey,LRG, D&G Jeans,APE Jean,BBC
Jeans,Antik Jean.Recover, ENYCEROCK Jean,Rock Republic Jeans,DIESEL
Jeans,ARMANI Jeans,RMC Jeans (www.fjrjtrade.com)

website: www.fjrjtrade.com
Discount Wholesale Affliction Jeans <free shipping paypal payment>
Discount Wholesale AK Jeans
Discount Wholesale Armani Jeans
Discount Wholesale Artful Dodger Jeans <free shipping paypal payment>
Discount Wholesale BAPE Jeans
Discount Wholesale BBC Jeans
Discount Wholesale Black Label Jeans www.fjrjtrade.com
Discount Wholesale Cavalli Jeans
Discount Wholesale Christian Audigier Jeans
Discount Wholesale Coogi Jeans
Discount Wholesale Crown Holder Jeans www.fjrjtrade.com
Discount Wholesale D&G Jeans
Discount Wholesale Diesel Jeans
Discount Wholesale ECKO Jeans
Discount Wholesale ED Hardy Jeans
Discount Wholesale Evisu Jeans
Discount Wholesale G-STAR Jeans <free shipping paypal payment>
Discount Wholesale GUCCI Jeans
Discount Wholesale Iceberg Jeans
Discount Wholesale Kanji Jeans www.fjrjtrade.com
Discount Wholesale Laguna Beach Jeans
Discount Wholesale Levi s Jeans
Discount Wholesale LRG Jeans <free shipping paypal payment>
Discount Wholesale LV Jeans
Discount Wholesale Prada Jeans
Discount Wholesale RMC Jeans
Discount Wholesale Roca Wear Jeans <free shipping paypal payment>
Discount Wholesale Rock&Republic Jeans
Discount Wholesale True Religion Jeans <free shipping paypal payment>
Discount Wholesale Versace Jeans
Discount Wholesale ZEN Jeans
Belt
Discount Wholesale Armani Belt <free shipping paypal payment>
Discount Wholesale Bape Belt
Discount Wholesale BOSS Belt
Discount Wholesale Burberry Belt
Discount Wholesale CA Belt
Discount Wholesale Chanel Belt <free shipping paypal payment>
Discount Wholesale CK Belt
Discount Wholesale D&G Belt <free shipping paypal payment>
Discount Wholesale Diesel Belt
Discount Wholesale Dior Belt
Discount Wholesale DSQ Belt www.fjrjtrade.com
Discount Wholesale ED Belt
Discount Wholesale Fendi Belt <free shipping paypal payment>
Discount Wholesale Gucci Belt
Discount Wholesale Hermes Belt
Discount Wholesale Levi s Belt
Discount Wholesale LV Belt <free shipping paypal payment>
Discount Wholesale POLO Belt
Discount Wholesale Prada Belt
Discount Wholesale Versace Belt <free shipping paypal payment>

Pants
Discount Wholesale A&F Pants <free shipping paypal payment>
Discount Wholesale Affliction Pants
Discount Wholesale Bape Pants
Discount Wholesale Christian Audigier Pants
Discount Wholesale COOGI Pants <free shipping paypal payment>
Discount Wholesale Crown Holder Pants
Discount Wholesale ED Hardy Pants
Discount Wholesale Evisu Pants <free shipping paypal payment>
Discount Wholesale Discount Wholesale RMC Pants
Rock&Republic Pants
Http://www.fjrjtrade.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Seebach and Wikipedia
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/baaefd8c63950c72?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 6:58 pm
From: "Bruce C. Baker"

"spinoza1111" <spinoza1111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:40e7b2f8-b917-4443-b442-871630bea962@11g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
> This is a quote from Wikipedia's policy on Biographies of Living
> Persons:
>
> "Wikipedia contains biographies of people who, while notable enough
> for an entry, are not generally well known. In such cases, exercise
> restraint and include only material relevant to their notability,
> focusing on high quality secondary sources. Material published by the
> subject may be used, but with caution; see above. Material that may
> adversely affect a person's reputation should be treated with special
> care; in many countries repeating defamatory claims is actionable, and
> there is additional protection for people who are not public figures."
>
> * Herb Schildt is "not generally well known"
>
> * Owing to my first BLP complaint, in early 2009, the critical
> material currently in the Reception section exercises restraint, but
> the first and most important reference, CTCN-4 by Seebach.
>
> * Neither CTCN-3 nor CTCN-4 are high quality sources. They contain
> errors including illiterate constructions such as "clear" to mean
> "clear and false". They also claim that all C main programs must have
> the syntax required only in what the Standard calls a Hosted program,
> which is an error. Neither would pass a technical edit.
>
> * CTCN-3 has adversely affected Herb's reputation for 15 years and
> was the reason the wikipedia artice was created; between 2006 and
> 2009, this article was completely NPOV and very disturbing.
>
> * The claims made in the Reception section and in the referenced
> CTCN-4 are defamatory under the law even if true in part. This is
> because Herb is a private individual who is accused in the article of
> serious malpractice when, in fact, he worked collegially with McGraw-
> Hill technical reviewers (who are also defamed in this drive-by
> shooting).
>
> Why are the claims defamatory? Because they are used to "prove" that
> Herb didn't know C and chose to write about it anyway. This is based
> on code examples/snippets which in no typical computer book work in
> all environments without change in some, and which is to be used after
> the reader has comprehended their use.
>
> It is clear that McGraw Hill did not choose, in Herb, a world-class
> expert on the C programming language. Instead they chose a person who
> Seebach admits by misusing "clear" is a good writer.
>
> When most computer books and large programs are delivered under the
> law with hundreds or thousands of bugs, it is defamatory to single
> Herb Schildt out, and it is scapegoating him for the incompetence
> found elsewhere. Seebach has exposed wikipedia to the potential for
> serious financial loss and should be banned from wikipedia for that
> reason.

Geez, Ed! Give it a rest, willya?

You're becoming tedious.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 7:01 pm
From: Seebs

On 2010-04-13, Bruce C. Baker <bcbaker00@cox.net> wrote:
> "spinoza1111" <spinoza1111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40e7b2f8-b917-4443-b442-871630bea962@11g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
>> Instead they chose a person who
>> Seebach admits by misusing "clear" is a good writer.

> Geez, Ed! Give it a rest, willya?

> You're becoming tedious.

Anyway, I already admitted I was wrong about believing Schildt to be
a good writer -- on closer study, the writing is bad too.

-s
--
Copyright 2010, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 9:14 pm
From: Keith Thompson

"Bruce C. Baker" <bcbaker00@cox.net> writes:
> "spinoza1111" <spinoza1111@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:40e7b2f8-b917-4443-b442-871630bea962@11g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
[51 lines deleted]
>
> Geez, Ed! Give it a rest, willya?
>
> You're becoming tedious.

So why did you feel the need to quote his entire article just to add 2
lines of comments?

Please don't feed the troll.

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Nokia
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 10:36 pm
From: spinoza1111

On Apr 13, 9:58 am, "Bruce C. Baker" <bcbake...@cox.net> wrote:
> "spinoza1111" <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:40e7b2f8-b917-4443-b442-871630bea962@11g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > This is a quote from Wikipedia's policy on Biographies of Living
> > Persons:
>
> > "Wikipedia contains biographies of people who, while notable enough
> > for an entry, are not generally well known. In such cases, exercise
> > restraint and include only material relevant to their notability,
> > focusing on high quality secondary sources. Material published by the
> > subject may be used, but with caution; see above. Material that may
> > adversely affect a person's reputation should be treated with special
> > care; in many countries repeating defamatory claims is actionable, and
> > there is additional protection for people who are not public figures."
>
> > *  Herb Schildt is "not generally well known"
>
> > *  Owing to my first BLP complaint, in early 2009, the critical
> > material currently in the Reception section exercises restraint, but
> > the first and most important reference, CTCN-4 by Seebach.
>
> > *  Neither CTCN-3 nor CTCN-4 are high quality sources. They contain
> > errors including illiterate constructions such as "clear" to mean
> > "clear and false". They also claim that all C main programs must have
> > the syntax required only in what the Standard calls a Hosted program,
> > which is an error. Neither would pass a technical edit.
>
> > *  CTCN-3 has adversely affected Herb's reputation for 15 years and
> > was the reason the wikipedia artice was created; between 2006 and
> > 2009, this article was completely NPOV and very disturbing.
>
> > *  The claims made in the Reception section and in the referenced
> > CTCN-4 are defamatory under the law even if true in part. This is
> > because Herb is a private individual who is accused in the article of
> > serious malpractice when, in fact, he worked collegially with McGraw-
> > Hill technical reviewers (who are also defamed in this drive-by
> > shooting).
>
> > Why are the claims defamatory? Because they are used to "prove" that
> > Herb didn't know C and chose to write about it anyway. This is based
> > on code examples/snippets which in no typical computer book work in
> > all environments without change in some, and which is to be used after
> > the reader has comprehended their use.
>
> > It is clear that McGraw Hill did not choose, in Herb, a world-class
> > expert on the C programming language. Instead they chose a person who
> > Seebach admits by misusing "clear" is a good writer.
>
> > When most computer books and large programs are delivered under the
> > law with hundreds or thousands of bugs, it is defamatory to single
> > Herb Schildt out, and it is scapegoating him for the incompetence
> > found elsewhere. Seebach has exposed wikipedia to the potential for
> > serious financial loss and should be banned from wikipedia for that
> > reason.
>
> Geez, Ed! Give it a rest, willya?
>
> You're becoming tedious.

No, what's tedious is the stupidity and hostility encountered by
anyone who comes in here with a few brain cells.

This issue ain't going away.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 10:38 pm
From: spinoza1111

On Apr 13, 12:14 pm, Keith Thompson <ks...@mib.org> wrote:
> "Bruce C. Baker" <bcbake...@cox.net> writes:
>
> > "spinoza1111" <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:40e7b2f8-b917-4443-b442-871630bea962@11g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
> [51 lines deleted]
>
> > Geez, Ed! Give it a rest, willya?
>
> > You're becoming tedious.
>
> So why did you feel the need to quote his entire article just to add 2
> lines of comments?
>
> Please don't feed the troll.

A "generalized Lanier troll" is anyone (anonymous or not) who doesn't
performatively take responsibility for his beliefs. That is, Keith
Thompson as a GLT seems to spend most of his time at work running
around admonishing people to ignore me. Not only is this electronic
stalking on his part, it's also idiotic.
>
> --
> Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks...@mib.org  <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
> Nokia
> "We must do something.  This is something.  Therefore, we must do this."
>     -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 10:40 pm
From: spinoza1111

On Apr 13, 10:01 am, Seebs <usenet-nos...@seebs.net> wrote:
> On 2010-04-13, Bruce C. Baker <bcbake...@cox.net> wrote:
>
> > "spinoza1111" <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >news:40e7b2f8-b917-4443-b442-871630bea962@11g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
> >> Instead they chose a person who
> >> Seebach admits by misusing "clear" is a good writer.
> > Geez, Ed! Give it a rest, willya?
> > You're becoming tedious.
>
> Anyway, I already admitted I was wrong about believing Schildt to be
> a good writer -- on closer study, the writing is bad too.

You're entitled to your own opinion, and we can ignore your views on
fine writing based on your use of "clear" and "illucid".

However, you probably committed an actionable tortious negligence when
you allowed CTCN-3 to be a source for a libelous page on wikipedia.
>
> -s
> --
> Copyright 2010, all wrongs reversed.  Peter Seebach / usenet-nos...@seebs.nethttp://www.seebs.net/log/<-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictureshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: small question
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/08850414dcd0b366?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 7:19 pm
From: gazelle@shell.xmission.com (Kenny McCormack)

In article <lniq7wtt9p.fsf@nuthaus.mib.org>,
Keith Thompson <kst-u@mib.org> pontificated:
...
>I've told you this before.

And it was worth the same then as it is now (nothing).

Do you honestly think anyone gives a crap about anything you say?
(no matter how many times you say it)

--
(This discussion group is about C, ...)

Wrong. It is only OCCASIONALLY a discussion group
about C; mostly, like most "discussion" groups, it is
off-topic Rorsharch revelations of the childhood
traumas of the participants...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Test of a preprocessor symbol defined as nothing vs. zero
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/8e4236bf3f19c661?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 12 2010 8:06 pm
From: Peter Nilsson

pac...@kosh.dhis.org (Alan Curry) wrote:
> | By the way, why is CAT2 needed?
>
> Because the preprocessor won't expand a macro parameter and
> do the ## operation in a single step, so you have to give it
> 2 chances. As for why it was designed that way, I have no
> idea.

Why disable an option unnecessarily? Sometimes you want the
macros expanded, sometimes you don't. Maybe you don't very
often, but maybe you don't know you don't until it happens,
and then you _really_ don't want it! ;)

I've certainly had cases where I didn't want # to expand
it's argument. Why make ## different?

> There would be no harm in allowing #define cat(x,y) x##y to
> do the job by itself, since what it does now without the
> second expansion pass is never useful.

A related problem is stopping the expansion...

#define CAT(x,y) x ## y
#define CAT2(x,y) CAT(x,y)

#define PLUS '+'
#define MINUS '-'

#define OP_PLUS 0
#define OP_MINUS 1

#ifndef TEST /* default PLUS, but allow -DTEST=MINUS
#define TEST PLUS