Thursday, April 1, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Layoff Letter - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0303c2a6114029dc?hl=en
* OT - Hyperinflation as a goal? - 6 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5baf0df42579e249?hl=en
* Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA - 6 messages, 6 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c816c7bd5e73ce02?hl=en
* A new "constitutional right" - 3 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8e77e80070fe5b42?hl=en
* Insurance claim.... - 4 messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6a2e038156446545?hl=en
* I brought home Husky brand - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7909885201f00459?hl=en
* How to center a chuck ? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8c5bc7ef058db6c5?hl=en
* Bubble of Ignorance - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2990ea519b199327?hl=en
* On Topic- Lets get rid of Cliff Options - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f1df1a24c6bce151?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Layoff Letter
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0303c2a6114029dc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 2:36 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Ignoramus23298" <ignoramus23298@NOSPAM.23298.invalid> wrote in message
news:lb2dnY13_qCumijWnZ2dnUVZ_jsAAAAA@giganews.com...
> On 2010-04-01, RBnDFW <burkheimer@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hawke wrote:
>>> On 3/31/2010 6:25 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
>>>> Dear Employees:
>>>>
>>>> As the CEO of this organization, I have resigned
>>>> myself to the fact that Barrack Obama is our
>>>> President and that our taxes and government fees
>>>> will increase in a BIG way.
>>>>
>>>> To compensate for these increases, our prices
>>>> would have to increase by about 10%. But since
>>>> we cannot increase our prices right now due to the
>>>> dismal state of the economy, we will have to lay off
>>>> sixty of our employees instead.
>>>>
>>>> This has really been bothering me since I believe
>>>> we are family here and I didn't know how to choose
>>>> who would have to go.
>>>>
>>>> So, this is what I did. I walked through our parking
>>>> lots and found sixty 'Obama' bumper stickers on our
>>>> employees' cars and have decided these folks will be
>>>> the ones to let go.. I can't think of a more fair way
>>>> to approach this problem. They voted for change......
>>>> I gave it to them.
>>>>
>>>> I will see the rest of you at the annual company picnic.
>>>>
>>>> THE BOSS
>>>
>>>
>>> Now the rest of the company will suffer because the Boss just went and
>>> let go 60 of his smartest workers. Not a very bright thing to do. Which
>>> means he didn't vote for Obama either.
>>
>> He'd probably be accused of racism
>
> The letter was pure fiction, right?
>
> i

It looks like a Gunnerism, all right. At least two humor blogs describe it
as a joke they got in their e-mail.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Hyperinflation as a goal?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5baf0df42579e249?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 3:39 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"


Wes wrote:
> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>
>> Wes wrote:
>>> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> At which point, our creditors would be left with worthless
>>>> promises. However, what are the odds that the US government
>>>> (or any employee thereof) would ever break a promise?
>>>
>>> I don't see us ever defaulting.
>>
>> Double digit inflation isn't much different than default if you are
>> holding long term debt issued at low rates - like today's.
>> It's a great way for us to wipe out our debt with cheapened dollars,
>> however, and that is why it's important for the Fed and the rest of
>> our government to be convincing in their arguments that they are
>> serious about fighting inflation when the time is right and that
>> they know how to do so and will.
>
> I sure don't want to go back to the Nixon, Ford, and Carter economy.
> Remember WIN, Whip Inflation Now?

What I remember was being at 1% over prime and paying 21% interest on a 90
day revolving line of credit in 1981/82.

--
John R. Carroll


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 4:04 pm
From: F. George McDuffee


On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 18:03:25 -0500, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:
<snip>
>I don't see us ever defaulting.
<snip>
No need to default as long as the printing presses keep running,
or in this new era as long as the computers are up. The FRB can
and will create all the money needed to cover the bonds, t-bills,
entitlements, etc. The question "will this money be worth
anything?" is another topic.


Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 3:13 pm
From: RBnDFW


John R. Carroll wrote:
> Wes wrote:
>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>>
>>> You could easily, for instance, whack $100 billion a year from
>>> defense spending without reducing readiness or otherwise impeding
>>> our global national security posture. That would, however, require
>>> the American public to grow a pair and stop being afraid of their
>>> own shadow. That isn't practical with all of the hype from every
>>> possible direction so it will require that our politicians display a
>>> little courage, possibly by falling on their own swords for the
>>> greater good.
>> Even when DOD tries to cut spending, congress critters put it back in.
>>
>> Consider the C-130.
>>
>> http://lobby.la.psu.edu/_107th/092_C_130_Procurement/summary_c_130.html
>>
>
> The C-17 is another example. That program had been shut down every year or
> two since 1999.
> Gates and Obama finally pulled the plug a few months ago.
> The comment I originally made, and which you excluded, was entirely
> appropriate.
> The only reason these programs are continued is that they get votes.

That's the "Bringing Home the bacon" or Pork Barrel Spending, depending
on whether it means jobs in your state or another.

these days you can't even build in airplane at one factory. You have to
parcel it out to 15 companies in as many states to spread out the pork.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 3:19 pm
From: RBnDFW


John R. Carroll wrote:
> Wes wrote:
>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>>
>>> Wes wrote:
>>>> "Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> At which point, our creditors would be left with worthless
>>>>> promises. However, what are the odds that the US government
>>>>> (or any employee thereof) would ever break a promise?
>>>> I don't see us ever defaulting.
>>> Double digit inflation isn't much different than default if you are
>>> holding long term debt issued at low rates - like today's.
>>> It's a great way for us to wipe out our debt with cheapened dollars,
>>> however, and that is why it's important for the Fed and the rest of
>>> our government to be convincing in their arguments that they are
>>> serious about fighting inflation when the time is right and that
>>> they know how to do so and will.
>> I sure don't want to go back to the Nixon, Ford, and Carter economy.
>> Remember WIN, Whip Inflation Now?
>
> What I remember was being at 1% over prime and paying 21% interest on a 90
> day revolving line of credit in 1981/82.

Same here. Had a 21% note on $75K buying a business.


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 3:29 pm
From: RBnDFW


Ed Huntress wrote:
> "RBnDFW" <burkheimer@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hp2ee3$jrf$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>
>>> Yet, my town is loaded with Muslims, mostly East Indian. One is my son's
>>> best friend. The ones I know are great, generous, hard-working people. My
>>> cardiologist's name is Muhammed, and he's a laugh a minute. <g> I really
>>> don't get it.
>> I do. He's a sleeper agent. Watch your back!
>
> <g> And my endocrinologist, until I left him, was named Hussein. He's a
> friend of my cardiologist, Muhammed. No kidding.
>
>>
>>> Defense is always going to be politically tough, but I'll be right behind
>>> you. As for cutting federal education contributions, all it will do is
>>> push the costs onto the states. I really don't see that one having legs.
>> I'm all for that. Education should be a very local issue.
>> The Feds should have never stuck their nose under that tent.
>
> I think it's the opposite. The more local you make school control, the
> dumber it gets. You won't find local control among any of the countries that
> beat our kids' pants off on standardized tests.

Then how do home schoolers excel over public-schooled students?
Doesn't get much more local than that.

Most of us on this board got a public school education when local
control was the rule, and the feds had little influence.

Except for Cliff and a few others, this seems like a smart bunch.

<g> Regarding Texas, when
> the Democrats in your legislature have to hide out in Oklahoma so the
> Republicans can't assemble a quorum, you have your share of buffoons, too.
> d8-)

Unfortunately, the buffoons came back.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 5:01 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"


RBnDFW wrote:
> Ed Huntress wrote:
>> "RBnDFW" <burkheimer@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hp2ee3$jrf$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yet, my town is loaded with Muslims, mostly East Indian. One is my
>>>> son's best friend. The ones I know are great, generous,
>>>> hard-working people. My cardiologist's name is Muhammed, and he's
>>>> a laugh a minute. <g> I really don't get it.
>>> I do. He's a sleeper agent. Watch your back!
>>
>> <g> And my endocrinologist, until I left him, was named Hussein.
>> He's a friend of my cardiologist, Muhammed. No kidding.
>>
>>>
>>>> Defense is always going to be politically tough, but I'll be right
>>>> behind you. As for cutting federal education contributions, all it
>>>> will do is push the costs onto the states. I really don't see that
>>>> one having legs.
>>> I'm all for that. Education should be a very local issue.
>>> The Feds should have never stuck their nose under that tent.
>>
>> I think it's the opposite. The more local you make school control,
>> the dumber it gets. You won't find local control among any of the
>> countries that beat our kids' pants off on standardized tests.
>
> Then how do home schoolers excel over public-schooled students?
> Doesn't get much more local than that.

They don't always.

>
> Most of us on this board got a public school education when local
> control was the rule, and the feds had little influence.

The feds have had a lot of influence since education becme mandatory by
federal statute.
All anyone really has to do is be willing to forego federal funding to opt
out.
Any volunteers?


--
John R. Carroll

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c816c7bd5e73ce02?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 2:51 pm
From: "Richard W."

"Ignoramus23298" <ignoramus23298@NOSPAM.23298.invalid> wrote in message
news:zYOdncunztxdSinWnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303960604575157701739806306.html
>
> Manufacturing Expands World-Wide
>
> Best month of activity in USA in six years, makes my search for an
> investment in a warehouse, possibly, even too late, although
> realistically I still have a chance. My own opinion, mostly based on
> liquidation auction prices for equipment that is usable in modern
> production (as opposed to clapped out 50 year old manual lathes), is
> that we are about to see sharp economic growth.
>
> U.S. factory operators saw their best month of activity in nearly six
> years during March. The Institute for Supply Management reported
> Thursday that its index of manufacturing activity for March moved to a
> reading of 59.6, from 56.5 the month before and 58.4 in
> January. March's level was above the 57.0 economists had expected to
> see, and it was the highest reading since July 2004. Readings over 50
> indicate growth.
>
> I do think that "Obama haters" , who succumbed to pessimism because of
> who is in the White House, are making a big mistake in not recognizing
> that this country has every potential to be a great economic and
> industrial machine. We are now in a bull stock market by any standard,
> and are seeing improvements in both growth and productivity. If this
> continues, the United States will see a lot of incremental tax
> revenues from additional economic activity and capital gains, and that
> alone could be a big help to reduce budget deficit.
>
> "Obama policies", which anyone should be free to like or not like, do
> not fundamentally change the fact that we are a dynamic, capitalist
> economy. In fact, availability of health insurance may help someone to
> move towards self-employment.
>
> i

This is the worst I have seen it in awhile. I was laid off in Oct. and I am
about to run out of unemployment. Sales went from 4.5 million a month to 1.5
and I was one of many let go. I thought I was safe with almost 13 years into
a big company. I think part of the reason is my age and being diabetic for
not getting another job. Having a steel plate holding my head up doesn't
help much either. Last time I was out of work it was for 9 days before I got
another good paying job.

All I can do is keep trying to find another job and wait and see what
happens with the economy. Only time will tell if our leader is good or bad.

Richard W.


== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 2:56 pm
From: Tim Wescott


pdrahn@coinet.com wrote:
> On Apr 1, 2:04 pm, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.now> wrote:
>> Steve Lusardi wrote:
>>
>> (top posting fixed)> "Ignoramus23298" <ignoramus23...@NOSPAM.23298.invalid> wrote in message
>>> news:zYOdncunztxdSinWnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405270230396060457515770173980...
>> (referenced article snipped)
>>
>>
>>
>> > Iggy,
>> > I'm amazed by your statement. When was the last time any product in the
>> > stores said "Made in the USA"? There is virtually no serious
>> > manufacturing left in the States. You don't need statistics to witness
>> > this and in point of fact, without seeing US products on the shelves,
>> > you have absolutely no justification for believing them. The same thing
>> > is happening in Europe and Japan. We have already exported almost all of
>> > our manufacturing to the third world to remain competitive in the world
>> > market. Don't believe the shit you read....look on the shelves.
>> > Steve
>> >
>> For an alternate set of data, consider my customer list -- with a few
>> exceptions, I do all of my work for US manufacturing companies, and they
>> support me very well indeed. No one hires a design consultant if they
>> don't intend to be manufacturing what the guy designs, and relatively
>> soon. While my business isn't booming it's certainly picking up
>> steadily but slowly.
>>
>> --
>> Tim Wescott
>> Control system and signal processing consultingwww.wescottdesign.com
>
> I see the same thing on the manufacturing end, Tim. Our orders keep
> increasing every month. New circuit board designs as well as old
> production. My GM made a delivery this morning of GPS boards. The
> customer had two pallets of finished electronic assemblies ready to
> ship TO China!!!
>
> Our big problem is component availability. Many distributors list a
> component with stock on hand and then call and say oops, bin is empty
> and factory says they will deliver in 6-8 weeks. Meantime, we have to
> pay for all the rest of the components now and wait till the stray
> arrives. Then one pops up that gives us a December 15 delivery date.
> The Chinese way of saying they will NEVER make that transformer again.
>
> Overall, things in manufacturing are getting much better than 2009.

I deeply admire folks that can keep a manufacturing operation running
smoothly, and I'm deeply grateful that they're out there and enjoy doing it.

Because I've been there, I've done that, and if you asked me to do it
again I'd have to run away screaming.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com


== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 3:21 pm
From: RBnDFW


Ed Huntress wrote:
> "RBnDFW" <burkheimer@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hp2sch$9t$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Pete C. wrote:
>>> Hawke wrote:
>>>> On 4/1/2010 10:28 AM, Ignoramus23298 wrote:
>>>>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303960604575157701739806306.html
>>>>>
>>>>> Manufacturing Expands World-Wide
>>>>>
>>>>> Best month of activity in USA in six years, makes my search for an
>>>>> investment in a warehouse, possibly, even too late, although
>>>>> realistically I still have a chance. My own opinion, mostly based on
>>>>> liquidation auction prices for equipment that is usable in modern
>>>>> production (as opposed to clapped out 50 year old manual lathes), is
>>>>> that we are about to see sharp economic growth.
>>>>>
>>>>> U.S. factory operators saw their best month of activity in nearly six
>>>>> years during March. The Institute for Supply Management reported
>>>>> Thursday that its index of manufacturing activity for March moved to a
>>>>> reading of 59.6, from 56.5 the month before and 58.4 in
>>>>> January. March's level was above the 57.0 economists had expected to
>>>>> see, and it was the highest reading since July 2004. Readings over 50
>>>>> indicate growth.
>>>>>
>>>>> I do think that "Obama haters" , who succumbed to pessimism because of
>>>>> who is in the White House, are making a big mistake in not recognizing
>>>>> that this country has every potential to be a great economic and
>>>>> industrial machine. We are now in a bull stock market by any standard,
>>>>> and are seeing improvements in both growth and productivity. If this
>>>>> continues, the United States will see a lot of incremental tax
>>>>> revenues from additional economic activity and capital gains, and that
>>>>> alone could be a big help to reduce budget deficit.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Obama policies", which anyone should be free to like or not like, do
>>>>> not fundamentally change the fact that we are a dynamic, capitalist
>>>>> economy. In fact, availability of health insurance may help someone to
>>>>> move towards self-employment.
>>>>>
>>>>> i
>>>> Don't try to tell right wingers that anything Obama is doing is working,
>>>> is good policy, is successful, or is the right thing to do. They
>>>> continue to believe in the tried and failed policies that Bush and the
>>>> republicans stand for, and that they put in place when Bush was
>>>> president. What's scary is that they want another chance to implement
>>>> the exact same failed policies again. They have simply not learned that
>>>> what they believed was wrong. So don't try to tell them Obama's way of
>>>> doing things is good. They won't hear of it. They're wedded to failed
>>>> policies and that's that. Now the rest of the normal people are all
>>>> starting to see what you see and what I have already said before, things
>>>> are turning around and we are beginning a new phase of positive economic
>>>> growth. Just be happy we're coming out of the Bush debacle and are
>>>> moving ahead once again and make some moves that allow you to profit
>>>> from seeing the obvious.
>>>>
>>>> Hawke
>>> Unfortunately, nobody left or right can admit when their policies have
>>> failed, and mostly nobody can even correlate their policies and the
>>> actual results since there is such a long lag time before they typically
>>> have any effect. This is of course why everything is cyclic.
>> Of course there's lag time.
>> The Bush policies are finally starting to yield positive results.
>> Of course, BHO's lackeys won't be giving Bush credit.
>
> Just one question here: Are you completely out of your freaking mind?

where'd you say that smiley collection was?


== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 4:51 pm
From: F. George McDuffee


On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:12:56 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
<kb1dal@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Apr 1, 5:41 pm, F. George McDuffee <gmcduf...@mcduffee-
>associates.us> wrote:
>> ...
>> The problem is that the reported results generally indicate that
>> most, if not all, of the conventional socio-economic/political
>> wisdom is wrong, and most of the credos, dogmas and shibboleths
>> of [political] ideology, where these can be put into testable
>> form and where data exists (which is too frequently *NOT* the
>> case), are not [or are no longer] correct.  ...
>>
>> Unka George  (George McDuffee)
>
>Does it support my hypothesis that ONLY the price of oil controls the
>world's economies?
>
>jsw
=============
A very good question, but one that illustrates the limitations,
i.e.
>> most of the credos, dogmas and shibboleths
>> of [political] ideology, ==>where these can be put into testable
>> form and where data exists<== (which is too frequently *NOT* the
>> case),
===========

The big problem is phrasing or stating your question in a
concise, testable and consensual format.

Two immediate problems (there are most likely many others)

(1) What does the price of oil mean? If US dollars, then CY or
inflation adjusted, if not US dollars what? Euros, Yen, or
gold/silver?

(2) What metric should we use for the world's economies? Average
unemployment rate? Median unemployment rate? Absolute or percent
change in GDP? How should the data be weighted? By population
[China rules]? By percent of GWP (gross world product) generated?
[USA rules] Un weighted? [Luxembourg = China or USA]

Foreign exchange/conversion rates have a huge effect on this
question. Should we use the trading exchange rates or the PPP
[parity purchasing power] equivalents?

FWIW -- The price of oil appears to have a big effect in some
economies such as the US, while commodity price rises in
agricultural products such as rice, may have a major effect in
the less developed countries. What is unusual from the free
market "supply and demand" perspective is the current run-up of
oil prices to c. 85$US/bbl with no significant increase in global
consumption, no significant increase in the cost of production,
and no fall in aggregate supply. This appears to indicate major
market manipulation and profiteering.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aBbjr6rE0Mcs
http://www.proactiveinvestors.com.au/companies/news/6163/oil-kicks-to-new-high-despite-higher-inventories--6163.html
http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article210754.ece?WT.mc_id=rechargenews_rss
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/5520852-oil-price-soared-above-84-dollars-a-barrel
http://www.businessinsider.com/opec-dying-to-convince-the-world-it-can-still-maintin-80-oil-2010-3

Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).


== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 4:17 pm
From: "RogerN"

Awesome! How many manufacturing jobs are they moving from China to the USA?

RogerN

"Ignoramus23298" <ignoramus23298@NOSPAM.23298.invalid> wrote in message
news:zYOdncunztxdSinWnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303960604575157701739806306.html
>


== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 4:35 pm
From: pyotr filipivich


Let the Record show that Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> on or
about Thu, 01 Apr 2010 13:20:55 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>>"Obama policies", which anyone should be free to like or not like, do
>>not fundamentally change the fact that we are a dynamic, capitalist
>>economy. In fact, availability of health insurance may help someone to
>>move towards self-employment.
>>
>>i
>
>Chuckle...wait the the Commerical Real Estate Crunch hits.
>
>Want to start a manufacturing business? Come out to California.
>
>Lots and lots of existing shops here, where the owners simply walked
>away from the building, leaving all the machinery(unpaid for), all the
>tools (unpaid for) and all the piles of completed work (unpaid for)
>still sitting in the shipping dock.
>
>Ill bet you could get a complete shop for simply walking in the front
>door.
>
>Course..you better have at least 4 yrs worth of expense money in the
>bank.....

Which leads me to the question, how long would it take to rig such
an enterprise onto transportation to another location, one which might
be considered more business friendly?

tschus
pyotr

p.s. Yes, I am remembering the bit in a post-ww3 novel, where one
group of SEALS basically pulled an unused train up to their base and
loaded everything onto it that wasn't nailed down, they pried up
everything else. "Never know, It could be useful someday..."

"We're not pack-rats. We are 'Rodents of extreme acquisition and
retention'."


-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A new "constitutional right"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8e77e80070fe5b42?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 2:57 pm
From: "Sid9"

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:_IedneO6NsIjkCjWnZ2dnUVZ_qydnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Lookout wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 16:01:54 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@belsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9D4D67BA696DFhopewell@216.196.97.130...
>>>> "Sid9" <sid9@belsouth.net> wrote in
>>>> news:hp0r1g$i6s$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Tim Miller" <replytonewsgroup@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hp0pil$5le$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>>>>> .
>> Reagan signed the bill. We just never did it.
>> It would save us hundreds of millions of dollars in repackaging costs
>> when we ship overseas.
>
> I thought metrification became the law in the 70's?
>
>
> --
> John R. Carroll
>
>
>

http://hubpages.com/hub/metric_system_vs_imperial_system

Metric vs. Imperial or Will the USA ever go metric?

By Gregorious

Metric vs. Imperial

Fact: The United States is the only industrialized country in the world that
doesn't use the metric system as its predominant system of weights and
measures.

Today only the USA, Liberia and Myanmar still use the old English Imperial
system.

The rest of the world is metric.


===============
We're behind!

We need to catch up!

Carter installed it and...

The worst president until bush,jr.....1982

President Ronald Reagan disbanded the U.S. Metric Board and canceled its
funding.

==============

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 4:27 pm
From: Pavlov


On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:19:23 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
<nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:

>Lookout wrote:
>> On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 16:01:54 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@belsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9D4D67BA696DFhopewell@216.196.97.130...
>>>> "Sid9" <sid9@belsouth.net> wrote in
>>>> news:hp0r1g$i6s$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Tim Miller" <replytonewsgroup@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hp0pil$5le$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>>>>> .
>> Reagan signed the bill. We just never did it.
>> It would save us hundreds of millions of dollars in repackaging costs
>> when we ship overseas.
>
>I thought metrification became the law in the 70's?

http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/dates.htm
1988 Reagan


== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 5:30 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"


Pavlov wrote:
> On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:19:23 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
> <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>
>> Lookout wrote:
>>> On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 16:01:54 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@belsouth.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote in
>>>> message news:Xns9D4D67BA696DFhopewell@216.196.97.130...
>>>>> "Sid9" <sid9@belsouth.net> wrote in
>>>>> news:hp0r1g$i6s$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Tim Miller" <replytonewsgroup@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:hp0pil$5le$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>>>>>> .
>>> Reagan signed the bill. We just never did it.
>>> It would save us hundreds of millions of dollars in repackaging
>>> costs when we ship overseas.
>>
>> I thought metrification became the law in the 70's?
>
> http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/dates.htm
> 1988 Reagan

I thought it was this one- During the Nixon/Ford years.

The Metric Conversion Act of 1975 (later amended by the Omnibus Trade and
Competitiveness Act of 1988, the Savings in Construction Act of 1996, and
the Department of Energy High-End Computing Revitalization Act of 2004)
designated the metric system as the preferred system of weights and measures
for US trade and commerce, and directed federal agencies to convert to the
metric system, to the extent feasible, including the use of metric in
construction of federal facilities.

--
John R. Carroll

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Insurance claim....
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6a2e038156446545?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 3:05 pm
From: Tony Hwang


Existential Angst wrote:
> "George"<george@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
> news:hovrnv$4a9$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> On 3/31/2010 11:54 AM, Existential Angst wrote:
>>> Awl --
>>>
>>> As some of you may know, the NY, NJ area got clobbered by a windstorm
>>> last
>>> week (75+ mph), after quite a snow storm a couple of weeks before.
>>> Damage
>>> was extensive, thousands of trees blown down, some people without
>>> electricity for a week. Imagine if the trees were fully leaved in the
>>> summer....
>>>
>>> So the insurance adjuster finally came today, and just left, after **3
>>> hours**, doing a very detailed survey, inside and out -- much more
>>> detailed
>>> than the roofing companies that came out -- and left me with a pile of
>>> papers and a check, for about $10K, about half of that for branch damage
>>> to
>>> the slate roof, the rest for inside water damage, A/C damage, other
>>> stuff.
>>>
>>> The Q is:
>>>
>>> What if the contractor prices come in, and exceed the insurance company
>>> estimates?
>>> What happens if damage is later encountered that the adjuster didn't see?
>>> Recourse? How to handle? War stories??
>>
>> Seriously, what was the adjusters response when you asked him that
>> question? He/she is the one who left you with the pile of papers and a
>> check. What do the papers say? What instructions did the adjuster give
>> you? If you didn't ask you should be contacting them to ask for
>> clarification and how to proceed since they are your point of contact.
>
> Well, true, I should read the papers, and will contact the company, but....
> seriously..... Do you really think the ins. co is going to give me explicit
> tips on effective negotiating tactics, consumer rights, etc?
>
> That's why I'm asking for real experiences/insights out there. I'm sure
> there's a lot written between the lines.
Hmm,
My insurance policy contains a current value replacement clause.
When my two sun rooms got clobbered by hail storm They paid out full
cost of repairs. (contractor waived deductible for me)


== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 3:13 pm
From: Tony Hwang


Tim Wescott wrote:
> Sanity wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Existential Angst" <UNfitcat@UNoptonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:4bb37028$0$5010$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>> Awl --
>>>
>>> As some of you may know, the NY, NJ area got clobbered by a windstorm
>>> last week (75+ mph), after quite a snow storm a couple of weeks
>>> before. Damage was extensive, thousands of trees blown down, some
>>> people without electricity for a week. Imagine if the trees were
>>> fully leaved in the summer....
>>>
>>> So the insurance adjuster finally came today, and just left, after
>>> **3 hours**, doing a very detailed survey, inside and out -- much
>>> more detailed than the roofing companies that came out -- and left me
>>> with a pile of papers and a check, for about $10K, about half of that
>>> for branch damage to the slate roof, the rest for inside water
>>> damage, A/C damage, other stuff.
>>>
>>> The Q is:
>>>
>>> What if the contractor prices come in, and exceed the insurance
>>> company estimates?
>>> What happens if damage is later encountered that the adjuster didn't
>>> see?
>>> Recourse? How to handle? War stories??
>>>
>>> As a DIY-er, I don't know much about "real" prices, but the wife is
>>> already pissed, thinks it's way too low.
>>> I guess it's reasonable to assume that the insurance company bias is
>>> to lowball stuff.
>>>
>>> And, I won't be DIY'ing most of this, that's f'sure, so any
>>> lowballing could really hurt.
>>>
>>> Appreciate all input.
>>>
>>> --
>>> EA
>>>
>>>
>> My experience is, just like in an auto collision claim, if further
>> damage is uncovered the adjuster will come back and reappraise his
>> original estimate and give you the money to fix the newly uncovered
>> damage.
>
> ... and if it's just like an auto collision claim*, that answer only
> applies if it's a _good_ insurance company. So watch them like they're
> crooks, and act toward them like they're friends.
>
> * Dad's shop started out as a collision repair company -- some insurance
> companies are really good at taking care of their customers -- some
> aren't. We had one guy working for us for a while who sold out his shop
> & retired to working on classics for my dad. He liked to walk by
> Allstate offices with his hands cupped just like in the ads, catch the
> eye of the sales guy, then open his hands like he was dumping a formerly
> treasured object in the mud. You have one guess as to what he thought of
> "You're in good hands with Allstate."
>
Hmm,
Allstate was the WORST I ever dealt with. Yhey treat their customer in
need of coverage like a criminal. In my will, I told my kids not to deal
with Allstate EVER!, LOL.
T


== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 3:38 pm
From: "cshenk"


"Existential Angst" wrote

>>> What if the contractor prices come in, and exceed the insurance company
>>> estimates?

Cashing the check must be done before it expires. Check to see if there is
an expiration. If there is, and you do not cash it before that, you may
find you can't get the money back.

In my area, they do not give an adjustment without several estimates first
from contractors. This may be 'state law' related. Oh they had a figure for
general use but it had variation. They were very happy for example that we
had a buddy who did windows cheaper as they were about to cut a check for
1500$ but ended up with 507$. I got a 'for a friend' rate.

>>> What happens if damage is later encountered that the adjuster didn't
>>> see?
>>> Recourse? How to handle? War stories??

Normally you can go back in a case like that for added adjustment.

>> Seriously, what was the adjusters response when you asked him that
>> question? He/she is the one who left you with the pile of papers and a
>> check. What do the papers say? What instructions did the adjuster give
>> you? If you didn't ask you should be contacting them to ask for
>> clarification and how to proceed since they are your point of contact.
>
> Well, true, I should read the papers, and will contact the company,
> but.... seriously..... Do you really think the ins. co is going to give
> me explicit tips on effective negotiating tactics, consumer rights, etc?

Yes if it saves them money, and they have to answer basic questions on
company policy. For example, my area and company require at least 3
estimates of which 1 must be from their list of local ontractors. *They*
pick the price from that set usually going with the lowest bidder. Payment
is after the work is complete (at least in my one case, not sure on that for
all cases).

> That's why I'm asking for real experiences/insights out there. I'm sure
> there's a lot written between the lines.

My case of dealing with them was both good and bad. I use State Farm. I had
horrendous damage from renters. Easily $50,000 plus if all contracted and
$25,000 of it was beyond our DIY level. The company worked with me hard to
make it meet the rules to get us $507 as the rest was just impossible with
my contract. Damages have to be filed for in a reasonable time and you have
to tie them to an event. With us living in Japan, they picked out a wind
storm and pretended the 2 windows were damaged by it. Clearly impossible as
one was broken from the *inside* and the outer
pane was fine and the picture window that was propped in place with a 4x4
clearly showed it also was busted out from the inside of the house.

The difference is you have a claimable storm and are able to make the claim.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 4:36 pm
From: "h"

"Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:lU8tn.35927$ao7.2919@newsfe21.iad...
> Tim Wescott wrote:
>> Sanity wrote:
>>>
> Hmm,
> Allstate was the WORST I ever dealt with. Yhey treat their customer in
> need of coverage like a criminal. In my will, I told my kids not to deal
> with Allstate EVER!, LOL.

Interesting. My experience with Allstate was great, and it was Amica who
treated me like a criminal.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I brought home Husky brand
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7909885201f00459?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 3:17 pm
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Stormin Mormon wrote:
>
> I bought a C-H pressure washer, years ago. Plastic pump
> housing, which cracked during use. Left me without a washer.
> I decided not to buy a plastic pump if possible. Home Depot
> had one, Powermate brand, which had metal housing. That has
> worked well, for me.
>
> Two 750 watt power inverters, Huskey and Vector, both from
> ebay. One died. Went and looked. It was the Husky which
> died. I guess that's a couple more votes to avoid those
> brands.


Sigh. What pathetic logic. It says nothing about the quality, or how
you (ab)used them.


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to center a chuck ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8c5bc7ef058db6c5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 3:19 pm
From: RBnDFW


Wes wrote:
> "azotic" <azotic@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> I got this chuck that i want to use on my logan 12" lathe. While fitting the
>> chuck to the
>> backplate i noticed the chuck does not have a recess on the back side for
>> centering.
>>
>> Any ideas on how to center this chuck so it runs true to my spindle?
>>
>
> That would be scary spinning at 1500 rpm. It will likely be out of balance, round is so
> much safer than that thing spinning away. Just wait until you manage to get hit by a
> spinning edge.

Once he gets it mounted, he can round it off :)


> Is this an April fools day joke?
>
> Wes
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bubble of Ignorance
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2990ea519b199327?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 3:38 pm
From: Just Me


Actually atheist is lack of belief in a supernatural diety,you don't
believe in lack of belief.An Agnostic is basically someone who doesn't
have the guts to state one or the other.The thing is most people who
believe in gods of one sort or another simply don't seem to be able to
comprehend that some of us not need to believe in fairy friends.And
before you go off on lack of proof one way or the other I personally
entertain the notion if someone can show me convincing evidence to the
reasonable existance of some dieity or another without resorting back
to the bible said so,or it on page three of superman 5 or something,or
using the god of gaps argument,just because there is much about that
natural world we don't understand,probably will never understand
doesn't point to the existance of a supernatural being.

On Mar 30, 4:10 pm, Gunner Asch <gunnera...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 10:57:37 -0700 (PDT), Just Me
>
> <mutantmachin...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >So what wrong with being atheist,it at least show you have a
> >questioning mind and don't simply swallow the mythology as told by the
> >religious lot.I'd rather be known as an atheist that by any religious/
> >spiritual alternatives,not a single one has anything to offer but fear
> >and ignorance.
>
> Atheism, just another faith based religious belief.
>
> Your statement would be actually TRUE if  you had said Agnostic.
>
> But atheists are just as rigidly sure of their beliefs as the strongest
> Xtian.
>
> But hey...believe what you want.
>
> Gunner

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 4:04 pm
From: Monika Eggers


Cliff schrieb:

> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 16:19:15 -0700, sittingduck <duck@spamherelots.com> wrote:
>
>> Monika Eggers wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ojPtbw-q-w God says he does not exist

>> http://www.heldersanches.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/house.jpg

Hehe =)

Monika.

--
All wars are civil wars, because all men are brothers ... Each one owes
infinitely more to the human race than to the particular country in
which he was born. - Francois Fenelon, theologian and writer (1651-1715)

E-mail address is valid until 4 weeks after the expiration date. Use
@arcor.de instead.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: On Topic- Lets get rid of Cliff Options
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f1df1a24c6bce151?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 4:11 pm
From: rangerssuck


On Apr 1, 5:55 pm, Wes <clu...@lycos.com> wrote:
> rangerssuck <rangerss...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Mar 31, 10:28 pm, "Because We Carry the Fire?"
> ><southbound@down_the_road.xyz> wrote:
> >> Maybe we need to revisit this topic?
>
> >And what about the rest of the people (left, right and center) who
> >seldom post on-topic, but always have a political statement to make?
> >They don't bother you? It doesn't raise your ire when someone like
> >Gunner posts hundreds of lines cut & pasted from his favorite winger
> >site without a single word of original thought? Or when he posts a one
> >or two word reply, followed by twenty or so lines of robotic spew?
>
> >When Gunner is on a road trip, the signal to noise ratio of this group
> >improves significantly. It's maybe a little less comical, but it is
> >way more on topic.
>
> >It's easy enough to killfile or otherwise filter the posters you don't
> >want to read.
>
> I take it you like Cliffs posts?
>
> Wes

Then you take it wrong.


==============================================================================

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