twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 13 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: #OT# Recession is over!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/be01c68a60161988?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 6:46 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 01:30:28 -0500, the infamous F. George McDuffee
<gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> scrawled the following:

>On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 21:57:16 -0700, Hawke
><davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>
><snip>
>Thanks for the kind words.
><snip>
>>Maybe it is time to get that gold after all.
><snip>
>Lead makes better bullets...

Gold is hoarded, lead is freely shared; given to the bad guys one
round at a time. ;)

>It is strange that the people with the most to lose, i.e. the
>banksters, broksters, speculators, are the ones most prone to
>play with fire, using the taxpayers' money.

And they should lose more, personally, as a result. Instead, the guy
who caused the trouble, or at least who should have caught it early
and headed it off, is put up as the Czar of Banking.

>One example is the run-up in speculative oil prices with a global
>production glut.
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/business/8604680.stm
>And the oil companies are attempting to justify falling profits
>because the price of oil is tanking...

Premium is running $3.09.9/gal this week, during this glut. That
refinery explosion was just a bit -too- timely for the industry,
wasn't it? But will heads roll? Don't bank on it.

>Gunner's "great cull" just keeps getting nearer.

...as the righteous get more impatient.

>We came within, not an ace, but a trey or four, of having a
>revolution as a result of the 1929-33 stock market crash and
>financial collapse [two related but separate events].

Time to reboot America?

--
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace
will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will
blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy,
while cares will drop away from you like the leaves of Autumn.
-- John Muir

==============================================================================
TOPIC: metal working porn
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8b5bd55d05e25ae2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 6:51 am
From: Andrew VK3BFA

On Apr 9, 9:48 pm, Boris Mohar <borism_vo...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 15:46:55 -0700, "Steve B" <deserttrave...@dishynail.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Randy" <rbraun...@enter.net> wrote in message
> >news:cd0pr5hned4atiuqov6ci2vtqlneb5v0ef@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 20:36:43 -0700, jk <kles...@suddenlink.net> wrote:
>
> >>>For those here actually interested in metal working
>
> >>>Hot raising the skull and back of an armet from one sheet
> >>>jk
>
> >> Me thinks the link is missing.........
>
> >> Thank You,
> >> Randy
>
> >> Remove 333 from email address to reply.
>
> >Methinks too much Jaegermeifter .............
>
> This instead than,
>
> http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=80a_1266361838
>
> Regards,
>
> Boris Mohar
>
> Got Knock? - see:
> Viatrack Printed Circuit Designs (among other things)http://www.viatrack.ca
>
> void _-void-_ in the obvious place

Nice - but pointless. 120kg of aluminium used to make a 3.6kg helmet?
- that's not metalworking, that's computer programming. But very
impressive too......what you would expect of a modern CNC milling
machine...

Andrew VK3BFA.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Not OT (for once) - follow up - drill chuck removal problem
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8bdc7de2523b6a6c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 6:55 am
From: Andrew VK3BFA

Hi All,
follow up - some time ago, I asked about how to remove the key-less
chuck on battery drills. My semi-dead one I was using as a power
screwdriver finally had a toooo dead battery pack, so it was
sacrificed to the cause. Got some good advice, so used it. Biggest
Allen key that would fit in the chuck , a lot of whacks with the
hammer - came loose (yes, I had figured out the reverse screw thread
thingy down the middle)
Thanks people - advice noted, and used successfully.
Andrew VK3BFA.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:29 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

What will you do with a separated chuck?

Did you consider rigging an external battery pack for your
drill?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Andrew VK3BFA" <VK3BFA@wia.org.au> wrote in message
news:97906343-5dd0-4f7d-8b37-3e78d5783b80@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
Hi All,
follow up - some time ago, I asked about how to remove the
key-less
chuck on battery drills. My semi-dead one I was using as a
power
screwdriver finally had a toooo dead battery pack, so it was
sacrificed to the cause. Got some good advice, so used it.
Biggest
Allen key that would fit in the chuck , a lot of whacks with
the
hammer - came loose (yes, I had figured out the reverse
screw thread
thingy down the middle)
Thanks people - advice noted, and used successfully.
Andrew VK3BFA.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:48 am
From: RBnDFW

Andrew VK3BFA wrote:
> Hi All,
> follow up - some time ago, I asked about how to remove the key-less
> chuck on battery drills. My semi-dead one I was using as a power
> screwdriver finally had a toooo dead battery pack, so it was
> sacrificed to the cause. Got some good advice, so used it. Biggest
> Allen key that would fit in the chuck , a lot of whacks with the
> hammer - came loose (yes, I had figured out the reverse screw thread
> thingy down the middle)
> Thanks people - advice noted, and used successfully.
> Andrew VK3BFA.

BTW, my dead cordless drills get a set of cables from (equally dead)
battery chargers. Clamp a 9.6-volt drill to a marginal 12V battery and
you can drill for hours, in a semi-portable way

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT How the Corporations Broke Ralph Nader and America, Too.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8c40d1fcc361d00a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:07 am
From: Joseph Gwinn

In article <4bbf1de6$0$4974$607ed4bc@cv.net>,
"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:

> "John" <jdslocomb@invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:k82ur5dm3ukaoqqug7smtd1l00jf6f5ue6@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 07:29:27 -0700, Larry Jaques
> > <ljaques@diversify.invalid> wrote:
> >
> >>On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 08:20:07 -0600, the infamous Lewis Hartswick
> >><lhartswick@earthlink.net> scrawled the following:
> >>
> >>>I didn't read the whole tirade but Ralph Nadar
> >>>is/was an IDIOT. He lost all credibility when
> >>>he wrote " Unsafe at any Speed".
> >>>What a load of BS.
> >>
> >>Yeah, he castrated GM while allowing the VW to go unpunished, despite
> >>the fact that they had more problems than the Corvair, including the
> >>extreme tendency for several to set themselves on fire almost as an
> >>almost daily practice.
> >
> > No that is not correct. Nader wrote Unsafe at any Speed, which was
> > pretty much a hatchet job to the extent that totally incorrect
> > statements were made and even a sketch of how a swing axle works was
> > deliberately drawn showing the outside wheel in a turn tipping inward
> > at the bottom, "tuck under" as Nader preferred to it when in fact it
> > does exactly the opposite, although if you do not understand how the
> > suspension works it might appear to be correct.

That's correct. I had an auto-mechanic friend in the 1970s who loved Corvairs,
and he had experienced the tuck-under phenomena. The solution was to install
the standard "sports package", which cost a few hundred dollars and included
some kind of torsion or stabilizer bar between the front wheels.

He was of mixed mind on Unsafe at Any Speed. On the one hand, he considered the
book to be wrong. On the other hand, it drove the cost of Corvairs down,
allowing him to buy more than one.

> Ah, John, no. I hesitate to interfere with your trashing of Nader <g>, but
> he was correct. It was commonly called "jacking" among the sports car
> fraternity. Anyone who drove an early VW, Corvair, Triumph Spitfire, or
> box-stock Porsche 356 (including the original Speedster) will be glad to
> relate some horror stories about it for you. d8-)
>
> Some older chassis books can explain and illustrate the same thing. If you
> were actively driving sports cars around, say, 1965, you were very familiar
> with it.

I recall reading these explanations, but no longer recall the details. I don't
recall that it was called "jacking", though. My friend didn't call it that, if
I recall.

Joe Gwinn

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:19 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 18:20:40 +0700, the infamous John
<jdslocomb@invalid.com> scrawled the following:

>On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 07:29:27 -0700, Larry Jaques
><ljaques@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 08:20:07 -0600, the infamous Lewis Hartswick
>><lhartswick@earthlink.net> scrawled the following:
>>
>>>I didn't read the whole tirade but Ralph Nadar
>>>is/was an IDIOT. He lost all credibility when
>>>he wrote " Unsafe at any Speed".
>>>What a load of BS.
>>
>>Yeah, he castrated GM while allowing the VW to go unpunished, despite
>>the fact that they had more problems than the Corvair, including the
>>extreme tendency for several to set themselves on fire almost as an
>>almost daily practice.
>
>No that is not correct. Nader wrote Unsafe at any Speed, which was
>pretty much a hatchet job to the extent that totally incorrect
>statements were made and even a sketch of how a swing axle works was
>deliberately drawn showing the outside wheel in a turn tipping inward
>at the bottom, "tuck under" as Nader preferred to it when in fact it
>does exactly the opposite, although if you do not understand how the
>suspension works it might appear to be correct.
>
>Although his engineering was wrong and Corvairs were fairly
>competitive in SCCA racing, (apparently on the track the suspension
>worked perfectly well :-) the public bought the book and the Corvair
>was a dead duck.

But corvairs did tend to toggle from understeer to oversteer without
warning, and my friend proved it to me (after fifteen "SLOW DOWN"
warnings) while I necked in the back seat with sweet Carmen. He spun
us a full 360 and sent my convertible into a 50 degree tip against a
small bank directly in line with a telephone pole. If he'd been going
just a few miles per hour faster, it probably would have killed all 4
of us. (Phil Dumbucks, you were a jerk!) Needless to say, he never
drove my vehicles again. I continued to haul ass in my 'Vair, but I
knew her limits.

I had glasspacks on the first one (bright red) and would drive up to
within 30' of friends and pedestrians, shut the key off, then turn the
inition key ON when I got next to them. All the raw gas going into the
cylinder and out into the exhause would cause an explosion within the
mufflers which would scare the hell out of 'em. The Corvair M-80. I
bought it from a CHP officer who had put 100lbs of sand in the trunk
to stabilize it and had really kept her up. She was quieter on the
freeway at 90mph than Mom's '63 Lincoln Continental, though I
preferred borrowing the Lincoln for the drive-in movies. You could put
the front seat all the way back and put your feet up on the dash (for
warmups), and it was wide enough to lay all the way down in. 4 kids
could horizontally bop in one. Ah, to be 19 again...

>Nader then wrote a book about the Volkswagen Bug using much the same
>tactics that had been so successful in the first book. However, this
>time Road and Track, and probably other main line car magazines wrote
>rebuttals. I read the Road and Tack article and it demonstrated that
>Nader's engineering was faulty, his many quotes, mainly taken from
>N.Y. State Police reports, were either taken out of context, cherry
>picked for effect or partially quoted, and in fact little in his book
>was accurate of true. In short they did to Nader what Nader did to
>the Corvair.

<g> I hadn't heard about the VW book.

>Since then I haven't heard much about Nader, but of course I haven't
>been looking to :-)

You don't read the ballot sheets, eh? He ran for the POTUS position.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:33 am
From: Joe Pfeiffer

John <jdslocomb@invalid.com> writes:
>
> Nader then wrote a book about the Volkswagen Bug using much the same
> tactics that had been so successful in the first book. However, this
> time Road and Track, and probably other main line car magazines wrote
> rebuttals. I read the Road and Tack article and it demonstrated that
> Nader's engineering was faulty, his many quotes, mainly taken from
> N.Y. State Police reports, were either taken out of context, cherry
> picked for effect or partially quoted, and in fact little in his book
> was accurate of true. In short they did to Nader what Nader did to
> the Corvair.

Not quite -- the rebuttals were well-reasoned and factual.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:35 am
From: RBnDFW

Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> In article <4bbf1de6$0$4974$607ed4bc@cv.net>,
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> "John" <jdslocomb@invalid.com> wrote in message
>> news:k82ur5dm3ukaoqqug7smtd1l00jf6f5ue6@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 07:29:27 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>> <ljaques@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 08:20:07 -0600, the infamous Lewis Hartswick
>>>> <lhartswick@earthlink.net> scrawled the following:
>>>>
>>>>> I didn't read the whole tirade but Ralph Nadar
>>>>> is/was an IDIOT. He lost all credibility when
>>>>> he wrote " Unsafe at any Speed".
>>>>> What a load of BS.
>>>> Yeah, he castrated GM while allowing the VW to go unpunished, despite
>>>> the fact that they had more problems than the Corvair, including the
>>>> extreme tendency for several to set themselves on fire almost as an
>>>> almost daily practice.
>>> No that is not correct. Nader wrote Unsafe at any Speed, which was
>>> pretty much a hatchet job to the extent that totally incorrect
>>> statements were made and even a sketch of how a swing axle works was
>>> deliberately drawn showing the outside wheel in a turn tipping inward
>>> at the bottom, "tuck under" as Nader preferred to it when in fact it
>>> does exactly the opposite, although if you do not understand how the
>>> suspension works it might appear to be correct.
>
> That's correct. I had an auto-mechanic friend in the 1970s who loved Corvairs,
> and he had experienced the tuck-under phenomena. The solution was to install
> the standard "sports package", which cost a few hundred dollars and included
> some kind of torsion or stabilizer bar between the front wheels.

Camber Compensator at the back limited the droop of the rear wheels

> He was of mixed mind on Unsafe at Any Speed. On the one hand, he considered the
> book to be wrong. On the other hand, it drove the cost of Corvairs down,
> allowing him to buy more than one.

the other big problem, according to the book, was the steering column
and steering box extended far in front of the front axle. In a frontal
crash, the column drove the steering wheel back and up into the driver's
chest.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:38 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Joseph Gwinn" <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:joegwinn-3A61D9.10075709042010@news.giganews.com...
> In article <4bbf1de6$0$4974$607ed4bc@cv.net>,
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> "John" <jdslocomb@invalid.com> wrote in message
>> news:k82ur5dm3ukaoqqug7smtd1l00jf6f5ue6@4ax.com...
>> > On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 07:29:27 -0700, Larry Jaques
>> > <ljaques@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>> >
>> >>On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 08:20:07 -0600, the infamous Lewis Hartswick
>> >><lhartswick@earthlink.net> scrawled the following:
>> >>
>> >>>I didn't read the whole tirade but Ralph Nadar
>> >>>is/was an IDIOT. He lost all credibility when
>> >>>he wrote " Unsafe at any Speed".
>> >>>What a load of BS.
>> >>
>> >>Yeah, he castrated GM while allowing the VW to go unpunished, despite
>> >>the fact that they had more problems than the Corvair, including the
>> >>extreme tendency for several to set themselves on fire almost as an
>> >>almost daily practice.
>> >
>> > No that is not correct. Nader wrote Unsafe at any Speed, which was
>> > pretty much a hatchet job to the extent that totally incorrect
>> > statements were made and even a sketch of how a swing axle works was
>> > deliberately drawn showing the outside wheel in a turn tipping inward
>> > at the bottom, "tuck under" as Nader preferred to it when in fact it
>> > does exactly the opposite, although if you do not understand how the
>> > suspension works it might appear to be correct.
>
> That's correct. I had an auto-mechanic friend in the 1970s who loved
> Corvairs,
> and he had experienced the tuck-under phenomena. The solution was to
> install
> the standard "sports package", which cost a few hundred dollars and
> included
> some kind of torsion or stabilizer bar between the front wheels.

The front stabilizer would limit oversteer (by inducing understeer), but it
didn't prevent jacking. For that, you needed the rear stabilizer bar, and/or
shorter rear springs to decamber the rear end.

I conquered it on my '63 with a combination of a stiff rear stabilizer and
the John Fitch decambering springs (negative 2-1/2 degrees.; it ate a set of
tires in a month or two, no kidding). But the stiff rear bar induced
oversteer. It was a tradeoff: I knew the rear end was coming around, but the
trade was that I could predict *when* it was coming around. When a
swing-axle car jacks, it's a violent transition, often with little warning.

>
> He was of mixed mind on Unsafe at Any Speed. On the one hand, he
> considered the
> book to be wrong. On the other hand, it drove the cost of Corvairs down,
> allowing him to buy more than one.
>
>
>> Ah, John, no. I hesitate to interfere with your trashing of Nader <g>,
>> but
>> he was correct. It was commonly called "jacking" among the sports car
>> fraternity. Anyone who drove an early VW, Corvair, Triumph Spitfire, or
>> box-stock Porsche 356 (including the original Speedster) will be glad to
>> relate some horror stories about it for you. d8-)
>>
>> Some older chassis books can explain and illustrate the same thing. If
>> you
>> were actively driving sports cars around, say, 1965, you were very
>> familiar
>> with it.
>
> I recall reading these explanations, but no longer recall the details. I
> don't
> recall that it was called "jacking", though. My friend didn't call it
> that, if
> I recall.
>
> Joe Gwinn

There's a force couple which, all by itself, would make the outside wheel
tuck under into positive camber, every time you went around a corner. It's
partly offset by body roll, which makes the outer spring compress and
induces negative camber. The transition from one to the other can occur
suddenly and it can be severe.

The better your tires, the worse the problem. Radial tires killed swing
axles; with Michelins on a stock-suspension Corvair, you could jack the
ass-end of the car up in the air with the greatest of ease.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: US lacks expertise, China to build high speed rail in California
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/80a843cd1f531f5f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:14 am
From: Joseph Gwinn

In article <PYydnYSxhYSWgSLWnZ2dnUVZ_vCdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Ignoramus21954 <ignoramus21954@NOSPAM.21954.invalid> wrote:

> kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
> anything due to the typical reasons.
>
> <http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=business>

Yes. Given how dysfunctional California has become, it's hard to imagine that
this will come to anything.

Although the article doesn't mention it, I also assume that the Chinese underbid
the French TGV.

Joe Gwinn

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 8:18 am
From: "William Wixon"

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:VLWdnQvqQsmwsyLWnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Ignoramus21954 wrote:
>> kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
>> anything due to the typical reasons.
>>
>>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=business
>
> "G.E. estimates that the United States will spend $13 billion in the next
> five years on high-speed rail routes. China, with a much more ambitious
> infrastructure program, will spend $300 billion in the next three years on
> overall expansion of its rail routes, mainly high-speed routes, according
> to
> G.E. "
>
> This is another reminder of the costs of protecting the carbon based
> energy
> industry. China will spend $300 million on their infrastructure and we'll
> spend an equal amount, much more really, on tax subsidized petroleum
> products and ethanol.
> Cheap gasoline is producing intellectual, technological, and industrial
> poverty while simultaneously subsidizing ME oil producers.
>
> It's a shame, and shameful.
> How embarrasing.
>
> --
> John R. Carroll
>
>

i responded privately to someone about the "mars mission" thread mentioning
upgrading the u.s. rail system would be a better way to spend the money
they'd spend on a manned mission to mars.
or exploring the oceans.

b.w.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:46 am
From: RBnDFW

John R. Carroll wrote:
> Ignoramus21954 wrote:
>> kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
>> anything due to the typical reasons.
>>
>>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=business
>
> "G.E. estimates that the United States will spend $13 billion in the next
> five years on high-speed rail routes. China, with a much more ambitious
> infrastructure program, will spend $300 billion in the next three years on
> overall expansion of its rail routes, mainly high-speed routes, according to
> G.E. "

Where the hell did California find $13 Billion ???

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 9:00 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

RBnDFW wrote:
> John R. Carroll wrote:
>> Ignoramus21954 wrote:
>>> kind of shocking and sad. I have a feeling that they will not build
>>> anything due to the typical reasons.
>>>
>>>
>>
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/business/global/08rail.html?src=me&ref=business
>>
>> "G.E. estimates that the United States will spend $13 billion in the
>> next five years on high-speed rail routes. China, with a much more
>> ambitious infrastructure program, will spend $300 billion in the
>> next three years on overall expansion of its rail routes, mainly
>> high-speed routes, according to G.E. "
>
> Where the hell did California find $13 Billion ???

$13 billion dolars is pretty modest for an economy the size of California's
but what the article says is that the amount spent BY THE ENTIRE COUNTRY
will be $13 billion and over five years, a trivial amount given that America
will be an $80 trillion economy in the same period.

Bush spent $185 billion to bail out AIG, $30 billion on Bear Sterns, and
$700 billion on TARP.

As I said, this is a complete humiliation.

--
John R. Carroll

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Who will be the first?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f434d5963fd21822?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:28 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Ork!! <slaps forehead> How will I ever live down the shame?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in
message news:4BBEB124.299D89EA@earthlink.net...

Stormin Mormon wrote:
>
> and
> the ocasional alien from Planet Orson. Mork, calling
> Orson!

The planet Ork. It rhymes with Dork.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and
watch this!'

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 8:13 am
From: wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 21:41:18 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:

>I don't believe that one use of a word

Who cares what a racist thinks?

Wayne

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HF hydraulic press Question
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/79ea64bd88472ab4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:36 am
From: spaco

My 20 ton HF hydraulic press does not have that problem. I suggest that
you take it back if you bought it at a store, or contact HF tech
support, tell them what's up and request a new table, if you feel that
the problen is the table and not the frame.
I have had very good luck with them on things of this sort.

Pete Stanaitis
--------------------

GeoLane at PTD dot NET wrote:
> I bought the Harbor Freight 20 Ton hydraulic press today.
>
> The table [they refer to it as the apron] rocks on the pins. It's
> twisted. When I hold one end down, there's a 5/32" gap at the
> opposite end. Do they all rock this much? Does it make any
> difference or make it more difficult to line things up to press them
> out?
>
> I tried taking the twist out by clamping one end and pumping the
> hydraulic until the table was flat against the pins, but it just
> returned after pressure was released.
>
> BTW, the 20T press is on sale for $200 currently, and if you look
> around on the net, there's a $20% discount coupon good till next
> December that the store honored. It brings the price down to $160.
> Now is the time to buy if you've needed one.
>
> RWL
>

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:44 am
From: RBnDFW

try this:

Loosen the bolts holding the frame together
Load up the press a bit to take out all the slack.
Tighten the bolts while under load.
Release pressure, check results.

> BTW, the 20T press is on sale for $200 currently, and if you look
> around on the net, there's a $20% discount coupon good till next
> December that the store honored. It brings the price down to $160.
> Now is the time to buy if you've needed one.

I bought mine 10 years ago at the exact same deal.
Still works like new, jack holds pressure with no leaks.
Great value.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 8:25 am
From: stans4@prolynx.com

On Apr 8, 9:28 pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET <GeoLane at PTD dot NET>
wrote:
> I bought the Harbor Freight 20 Ton hydraulic press today.
>
> The table [they refer to it as the apron] rocks on the pins. It's
> twisted. When I hold one end down, there's a 5/32" gap at the
> opposite end. Do they all rock this much? Does it make any
> difference or make it more difficult to line things up to press them
> out?
>
> I tried taking the twist out by clamping one end and pumping the
> hydraulic until the table was flat against the pins, but it just
> returned after pressure was released.
>
> BTW, the 20T press is on sale for $200 currently, and if you look
> around on the net, there's a $20% discount coupon good till next
> December that the store honored. It brings the price down to $160.
> Now is the time to buy if you've needed one.
>
> RWL

Welded frame or bolted frame? Mine has a welded frame, the only
troubles I've had with it were because the floor was uneven
underneath. I checked all the holes with the table/apron at assembly
and they're good. Store sale price here was $179 last month and I
used a 20% coupon when I got mine. Sale price back then was around
$160. Actually came out to about $20 more than the 12 tonner price
that day by using the coupon.

If you can't get it straightened up, take it back for a swap, one
reason I deal with the stores and not mail-order on the big stuff. If
it's not straight now, don't keep hoping it'll straighten up by
itself, it won't. Chink QC is a crapshoot.

Stan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sine Bar Chart?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/cf46fb60fd9c2c93?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:41 am
From: RBnDFW

DoN. Nichols wrote:
> On 2010-04-07, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote:
>> RBnDFW wrote:
>>> Anyone got a simple chart or spreadsheet for a 5" sine bar?

>
> If you want to calculate the (gauge block) stack size needed to
> get a specific angle, try:
>
> block_stack_needed = sin(angle) * 5
>
> that is why they are called "sine bars".
>
> If you have a scientific calculator (like my old HP 15C), you
> have a sine function in there. Otherwise, pick up an old _Handbook of
> Chemistry and Physics_ (or any of a number of other reference books) and
> look for a table of sines which has sufficient digits to give you the
> accuracy you need. Hmm ... old editions of _Machinery's Handbook_ also
> have the sine tables. Newer ones have dropped that because of the
> availability of scientific calculators. (Avoid BASIC in a PC, because
> it probably does not have enough significant figures to do what you need
> -- and it also probably is expecting the angles in radians, not degrees.
> I'm not sure what precision a spreadsheet can give, but unless you can
> at least ask for "double precision" calculations, forget it.

OK, found a iPhone free app calculator with trig functions.
that ought to be the ticket.

thanks

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Battery drill external battery pack
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2a3b10825de0128f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:46 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Have you ever built a battery drill, using a dead
cordless drill, and external battery pack? For a
while, I was saving a 12 volt drill that was dead.

I save it, becuase I figured I could put a length of
zipcord on it, and run it to a lighter plug. Power it
from the socket of a battery jumper pack.

Most Sub-C that I've found in drills are 1600 mA
hours, Compared to the cheap Rayovac NiMH AA
cells, which are about 2,000. could use a 12 volt
pack that runs AA cells (eight AA cells, Rat Shack
used to have these) and actually have more power
than the original pack. Plus, being able to test and
replace individual cells as they failed.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 8:16 am
From: "Bill Noble"

I wrote an article years ago for an automotive magazine that said to do just
that - take your battery drill and remove the dead battery, add zip cord and
clips and use with the car battery

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hpnelq$c3m$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Have you ever built a battery drill, using a dead
> cordless drill, and external battery pack? For a
> while, I was saving a 12 volt drill that was dead.
>
> I save it, becuase I figured I could put a length of
> zipcord on it, and run it to a lighter plug. Power it
> from the socket of a battery jumper pack.
>
> Most Sub-C that I've found in drills are 1600 mA
> hours, Compared to the cheap Rayovac NiMH AA
> cells, which are about 2,000. could use a 12 volt
> pack that runs AA cells (eight AA cells, Rat Shack
> used to have these) and actually have more power
> than the original pack. Plus, being able to test and
> replace individual cells as they failed.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Unpleasant certain excpected disappointment with Bridgeport
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/74a799c6c5c299f2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:52 am
From: Ignoramus21954

The service woman got back to me and said

``This is a machine that was built exclusively in the UK. They are not
supported in the U.S. and we can not get any manuals. However, there
is a possibility that we can get some of the parts. So if there is a
specific part you need, and you either have a part number or can take
a picture of the part you need, I might be able to help you out.''

This is a disappointment, and, in a way, I am not surprised at all.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Turbo Incabulator
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c4603e89006aeee5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 8:00 am
From: James Waldby

On Fri, 09 Apr 2010 13:09:54 +0000, Doug White wrote:
> Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu> wrote ...
>
>> Both videos are based on "The Turbo Encabulator in Industry", which was
>> written a very long time ago (I have a copy in a book entitled "Random
>> Walks in Science", which I highly recommend). I'd guess it's 1960's
>> vintage. I can look it up if folks are curious.
>>
>> Back around 1990, I was working on a laser communications system to fly
>> on NASA's Advanced Communications Technology Satellite (ACTS). We had
>> some blueprints of the satellite structure so we could figure out the
>> mounting interface. Buried in the middle of a large complex drawing
>> was a little note with an arrow pointing to some piece of the
>> structure. It said "Nofor Trunnion", and I knew immediately that the
>> draftsman was a Turbo Encabulator fan.
...
> It's older than I thought. I found this on-line: "The turbo-encabulator
> in industry" is the contribution of J.H. Quick, graduate member of the
> Institution of Electrical Engineers in London, England, and was first
> published in the Institution's Students' Quarterly Journal vol 15 no. 58
> p. 22 in December 1944."
...

On a metalworking note, the 1962 GE turboencabulator version has tremie-
pipes made of Crapaloy (tungsten cowhide). See note under "Case" in
second picture at <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turboencabulator>.

--
jiw

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jon Banquer invades VX Forum
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8c4c0e70a6085103?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 8:13 am
From: Joe788

On Apr 9, 2:37 am, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 21:12:55 -0700 (PDT), Joe788 <larryro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >Talk talk, talk and talk
> >Talk talk, sweet talk
> >Talk talk, tough talk
> >Talk talk, dirty talk
> >Talk talk, walk and talk
> >Talk talk, big talk
>
> >Talk talk, talk and talk
> >Talk talk, smooth talk
> >Talk talk, body talk
> >Talk talk, back talk
> >Talk talk, small talk
> >Talk talk, baby talk
> >Talk talk, peace talk
> >Talk talk, bullshit
>
> Yer new meds not working out, eh?
> --
> Cliff

LOL! I don't even know what to make of Jon's new problem.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mig Cart Photos
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f98dd5f4bd301c30?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 8:24 am
From: Pete Snell

Steve B wrote:

>
> I am making a cart, too, but have very different needs. I like your thought
> of keeping the machine high to keep the overbend to a minimum. But to me,
> that makes your whole assembly with the welder on it too top heavy. A
> friend of mine has the exact Miller, but has a bigger wheelbase footprint.

Yeah, I thought about that, and the fact that the welder is actually
pretty light means it isn't as tippy as it may look. I wouldn't try to
drag it sideways by one of the cables, but it is pretty stable.

>
> I stick weld anything I want that much penetration on, so always use a
> bottle with my MIG. Locating the bottle on the lower level keeps the center
> of gravity down, but with the bottle, welder, and everything else, the whole
> thing is rather heavy, I'd say easily going over 100#. On your cart, the
> bottle would stick WAY out.

I doubt I'll ever use a bottle, but if I do it'll be the smallest
available. Maybe 16" high and 25lbs. If I got serious I think I would
cut the back platform off of the welder so that the bottle would rest on
the bottom portion of the cart.

>
> It all depends on where you are going to use the welder, too. For your roll
> around flat floor shop, what you have is good, but I'd watch for tipping,
> especially if all casters swivel, and it can run sideways. On my wood
> container floor, my cart is presently a 6" inflatable tire garden cart, but
> it uses too much space, and has no room for holding everything.

Might haul it out into the driveway, or maybe the patio. Pretty even
surfaces. It only has the two rear wheels on a fixed axle, the front
just sits on a 'prop' of 3" channel.

>
> So, I am just cutting down a shopping cart, and going to put the bottle on
> the bottom, and the machine on the next level up to keep the center of
> gravity down. The handle is high, and the wheels far enough apart to make
> it stable. It would be no good outside in the sand, but when I need to take
> the machine outside, I will just put it on the soft wheeled cart, first
> making some supports to make it more stable in holding all the "stuff".
>
> I was going to (and may still) make a trick one out of custom cut tubing,
> but for the sake of time and simplicity, I'll use the shopping cart version,
> and see how that works out. It may give me the motivation to put concrete
> on top of the sand.

Sounds like an interesting base platform. Post some photos when you get
it done!

Pete

--
Pete Snell
Department of Physics
Royal Military College
Kingston, Ontario,
Canada
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Either this man is dead or my watch has stopped.

Groucho Marx (1895–1977)

==============================================================================

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Friday, April 9, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 13 topics - digest

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