rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 8 topics - digest

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Famous presidential lies - 12 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3cb2a4cd7e7b85f8?hl=en
* Taking over Fannie & Freddie was part of the Democrats clean up operation
for their own mess - 2 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/27850e46baa11657?hl=en
* Garage or shop Heater - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7c5d60dfc5f8691a?hl=en
* Ping Richard! - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1b38c3b536a8c4aa?hl=en
* How much mercury is in mercury relays? - 2 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/28b8e3bc7aaa18d2?hl=en
* NBC, CBS Blame Weak Jobs Report on Weather, Economists Disagree - 1 messages,
1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0ccecaa1bc81eb23?hl=en
* Rotary Table Chuck Adapter - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f86c3d5e49c5f77c?hl=en
* "Banks are public utilities" - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8aebf6fb3374a24c?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Famous presidential lies
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3cb2a4cd7e7b85f8?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 7:02 am
From: "Jim Wilkins"



"Klaus Schadenfreude" <KlausSchadenfreude@gmx.com> wrote in message
news:an4ld9h9araodt6trigd1a99dc100bnntf@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 09:42:08 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Rudy Canoza" <LaLaLaLaLaLa@philhendrie.con> wrote in message
>>news:22dcb$52d9d189$414e828e$1272@EVERESTKC.NET...
>>>
>>> "Case Closed", by Gerald Posner - the definitive examination of
>>> the
>>> assassination and all the goofy conspiracy theories. One gunman,
>>> acting alone.
>>>
>>
>>The best hard evidence for a second shooter is the Dictabelt
>>recording:
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictabelt_evidence_relating_to_the_assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy
>>"Ohio rock drummer Steve Barber listened to that recording
>>repeatedly
>>and heard the words "Hold everything secure"
>
> Try and read that without laughing. I couldn't.
>

Do you think that musicians are bad listeners?






== 2 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 7:32 am
From: "David R. Birch"


On 1/18/2014 9:02 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Klaus Schadenfreude" <KlausSchadenfreude@gmx.com> wrote in message
> news:an4ld9h9araodt6trigd1a99dc100bnntf@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 09:42:08 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> "Rudy Canoza" <LaLaLaLaLaLa@philhendrie.con> wrote in message
>>> news:22dcb$52d9d189$414e828e$1272@EVERESTKC.NET...
>>>>
>>>> "Case Closed", by Gerald Posner - the definitive examination of
>>>> the
>>>> assassination and all the goofy conspiracy theories. One gunman,
>>>> acting alone.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The best hard evidence for a second shooter is the Dictabelt
>>> recording:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictabelt_evidence_relating_to_the_assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy
>>> "Ohio rock drummer Steve Barber listened to that recording
>>> repeatedly
>>> and heard the words "Hold everything secure"
>>
>> Try and read that without laughing. I couldn't.
>>
>
> Do you think that musicians are bad listeners?

Many of the rock musicians I know are at least slightly deaf. Also, some
cranks heard "I buried Paul" in Beatles lyrics during the "Paul is dead"
nonsense.

How many listened to that poor quality recording and didn't hear "hold
everything secure"?

David





== 3 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 7:38 am
From: Klaus Schadenfreude


On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 10:02:22 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Klaus Schadenfreude" <KlausSchadenfreude@gmx.com> wrote in message
>news:an4ld9h9araodt6trigd1a99dc100bnntf@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 09:42:08 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Rudy Canoza" <LaLaLaLaLaLa@philhendrie.con> wrote in message
>>>news:22dcb$52d9d189$414e828e$1272@EVERESTKC.NET...
>>>>
>>>> "Case Closed", by Gerald Posner - the definitive examination of
>>>> the
>>>> assassination and all the goofy conspiracy theories. One gunman,
>>>> acting alone.
>>>>
>>>
>>>The best hard evidence for a second shooter is the Dictabelt
>>>recording:
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictabelt_evidence_relating_to_the_assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy
>>>"Ohio rock drummer Steve Barber listened to that recording
>>>repeatedly
>>>and heard the words "Hold everything secure"
>>
>> Try and read that without laughing. I couldn't.
>>
>
>Do you think that musicians are bad listeners?
>

Being a musician has absolutely no bearing on how well you can hear.
Being a rock musician would certainly increase the chances of being
LESS able to hear well.

One has little to do with the other.

But it was pretty funny that some old, obscure rock musician "heard"
something.

I'd run with that if I were you!

LOL.

http://data.whicdn.com/images/57783407/Listening-To-Slayer_large.png




== 4 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 7:54 am
From: Klaus Schadenfreude


On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 10:02:22 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Klaus Schadenfreude" <KlausSchadenfreude@gmx.com> wrote in message
>news:an4ld9h9araodt6trigd1a99dc100bnntf@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 09:42:08 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Rudy Canoza" <LaLaLaLaLaLa@philhendrie.con> wrote in message
>>>news:22dcb$52d9d189$414e828e$1272@EVERESTKC.NET...
>>>>
>>>> "Case Closed", by Gerald Posner - the definitive examination of
>>>> the
>>>> assassination and all the goofy conspiracy theories. One gunman,
>>>> acting alone.
>>>>
>>>
>>>The best hard evidence for a second shooter is the Dictabelt
>>>recording:
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictabelt_evidence_relating_to_the_assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy
>>>"Ohio rock drummer Steve Barber listened to that recording
>>>repeatedly
>>>and heard the words "Hold everything secure"
>>
>> Try and read that without laughing. I couldn't.
>>
>
>Do you think that musicians are bad listeners?
>

For more reading..............

http://www.drummagazine.com/features/post/i-cant-hear-you/
Musicians, particularly drummers, are at risk for losing their hearing
as a result of playing without proper ear protection. Sixty percent of
Rock And Rock Hall Of Fame inductees are hearing impaired.

Steve Barber playing apparently without hearing protection:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZqim19fN7g




== 5 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 8:00 am
From: "Jim Wilkins"


"David R. Birch" <dbirch@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:lbe6p701q5c@news1.newsguy.com...
> On 1/18/2014 9:02 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>> "Klaus Schadenfreude" <KlausSchadenfreude@gmx.com> wrote in message
>> news:an4ld9h9araodt6trigd1a99dc100bnntf@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 09:42:08 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
>>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Rudy Canoza" <LaLaLaLaLaLa@philhendrie.con> wrote in message
>>>> news:22dcb$52d9d189$414e828e$1272@EVERESTKC.NET...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Case Closed", by Gerald Posner - the definitive examination of
>>>>> the
>>>>> assassination and all the goofy conspiracy theories. One
>>>>> gunman,
>>>>> acting alone.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The best hard evidence for a second shooter is the Dictabelt
>>>> recording:
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictabelt_evidence_relating_to_the_assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy
>>>> "Ohio rock drummer Steve Barber listened to that recording
>>>> repeatedly
>>>> and heard the words "Hold everything secure"
>>>
>>> Try and read that without laughing. I couldn't.
>>>
>>
>> Do you think that musicians are bad listeners?
>
> Many of the rock musicians I know are at least slightly deaf. Also,
> some cranks heard "I buried Paul" in Beatles lyrics during the "Paul
> is dead" nonsense.
>
> How many listened to that poor quality recording and didn't hear
> "hold everything secure"?
>
> David

"A panel of scientists headed by Dr. Norman Ramsey issued a report in
1982 which agreed with Barber and determined that there was no
compelling evidence for gunshots on the recording and that the HSCA's
suspect impulses were recorded about a minute after the shooting
happened."

Read the "Possible Origins" section of the Dictabelt Wiki.
jsw






== 6 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 8:28 am
From: "Alec Fraser"




"Klaus Schadenfreude" wrote in message
news:vp8ld9hkc1vc95c8iqpa7s618jpqq4md59@4ax.com...

On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 10:02:22 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Klaus Schadenfreude" <KlausSchadenfreude@gmx.com> wrote in message
>news:an4ld9h9araodt6trigd1a99dc100bnntf@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 09:42:08 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Rudy Canoza" <LaLaLaLaLaLa@philhendrie.con> wrote in message
>>>news:22dcb$52d9d189$414e828e$1272@EVERESTKC.NET...
>>>>
>>>> "Case Closed", by Gerald Posner - the definitive examination of
>>>> the
>>>> assassination and all the goofy conspiracy theories. One gunman,
>>>> acting alone.
>>>>
>>>
>>>The best hard evidence for a second shooter is the Dictabelt
>>>recording:
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictabelt_evidence_relating_to_the_assassination_of_John_F._Kennedy
>>>"Ohio rock drummer Steve Barber listened to that recording
>>>repeatedly
>>>and heard the words "Hold everything secure"
>>
>> Try and read that without laughing. I couldn't.
>>
>
>Do you think that musicians are bad listeners?
>

For more reading..............

http://www.drummagazine.com/features/post/i-cant-hear-you/
Musicians, particularly drummers, are at risk for losing their hearing
as a result of playing without proper ear protection. Sixty percent of
Rock And Rock Hall Of Fame inductees are hearing impaired.

Steve Barber playing apparently without hearing protection:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZqim19fN7g

###
Or Terry Bozzio !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvBvL7cyPVk





== 7 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 8:41 am
From: Rudy Canoza


On 1/17/2014 10:23 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
> On 1/17/2014 10:55 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>> On 1/17/2014 9:28 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
>>> On 1/17/2014 8:49 AM, Rudy Canoza wrote:>
>>> I heard him say that he'd never give away the Panama Canal when he was
>>> campaigning for the office of President.
>>
>> You *quoted* (Carter) saying something very specific:
>>
>> "I will never give away the Panama Canal."
>>
>> He never said that. It's not a quote.
>>
>
> Sure it is.

It isn't.


> The subject heading is famous presidential lies.

<yawn> Does that mean that if I post in the thread

"My administration will ensure that every American household
has a color television set and a microwave oven."

John Quincy Adams - September 1824

that it necessarily means he said it?

You stupid fuckwit.


> Carter lied when he promised to never give away the Panama Canal while running
> for the office of President,

When did he say it? I want the specific date, the place, the event, and
to whom he said it.

Do you even understand what a quote is, you knuckle-dragging fuckwit?
It is something that a specific person said at a specific time and
place, and it can be authenticated that the person said it in the
*exact* words - no more and no fewer, and in *exactly* the same order -
as the words you place between quotation marks. So, *precisely* where
and when and to whom did Carter say the *exactly* the words you have in
quotation marks above?

Answer: he never did. He might have said words that you interpreted to
be to that *effect*, but I wouldn't trust your interpretation of "Mary
had a little lamb," because you are a demonstrated fuckwit - a goddamned
fucking moron.


> You seem very upset over the fact that some of us remember Carter's
> statement that he'd never give away the Panama Canal.

How can I be upset over your "remembering" something he didn't say?

What irritates me is that you think it makes a damned bit of difference.
Are you upset that you think he said something *like* it and it turned
out to be a lie, or are you upset that the canal actually was transfered
to Panamanian control? I don't give a rat's ass if Carter said
something like it or not. The actual transfer of the canal did not
affect US security one bit.




== 8 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 8:45 am
From: "Jim Wilkins"


"David R. Birch" <dbirch@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:lbe6p701q5c@news1.newsguy.com...
> On 1/18/2014 9:02 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> How many listened to that poor quality recording and didn't hear
> "hold everything secure"?
>
> David

This discusses the timing of "hold everything secure" in more detail
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/odell/
"2. Both the "hold everything" and the "you want me" crosstalk
alignments demonstrate that the suspect impulses happen too late to be
the assassination gunshots."
jsw






== 9 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 8:56 am
From: Rudy Canoza


On 1/16/2014 7:11 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Jan 2014 11:52:43 -0600, Jeff M wrote:
>> On 1/16/2014 11:48 AM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Jan 2014 10:00:15 -0700, "Ray Keller" wrote:
>>>
>>>> _____(add you own favorite
>>>> here)_____________________________________________
>>
>> "Trust me." - Every politician ever.
>
> Well, if we are off just presidents
>
> Hounds love to be picked up by the ears.
> Johnson

Not a quote.


> Dogs love to travel strapped to the roof of cars.
> Romney

Not a quote.


Even if they were quotes, they aren't necessarily lies. Johnson and
Romney might well have believed them to be true, so they wouldn't be
lying if they stated their beliefs.






== 10 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 8:57 am
From: Rudy Canoza


On 1/17/2014 11:42 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 21:07:25 -0800, Rudy Canoza
> <LaLaLaLaLaLa@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>
>> On 1/17/2014 5:38 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>>> On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 07:52:03 -0800, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>> On 1/16/2014 10:53 PM, Steve from Colorado wrote:
>>>>> On 1/16/2014 11:10 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> FWIW, I too remember Carter saying it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you.
>>>>
>>>> Carter didn't say what you quoted him as saying. He might have said
>>>> something to that effect, but he didn't say *EITHER* statement that you
>>>> cited as quotes. You made them up. You've already *admitted* to having
>>>> faked the quote about Cuban troops. You're an admitted forger.
>>>>
>>>> winnie does *NOT* remember Carter saying what you quoted him as saying,
>>>> because Carter never said that. You and winnie are fuckwits.
>>>
>>> True to your form. Your only tactic is to deny something was said or
>>> happened. That puts you in a lovely spot as no one can ask you to
>>> prove a negative (your statement). You get away with maligning a
>>> poster, come off like an expert, and can't be challenged.
>>
>> Carter didn't say what that fuckwit claimed he said. It's that simple -
>> the "quote" is fake.
>
> Yet another denial. That's all you do. Deny. Repeat as necessary.

He didn't say what the fuckwit quoted him as saying.

You clearly don't understand what a quote is, either.





== 11 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 9:45 am
From: Rudy Canoza


On 1/17/2014 11:47 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
> Rudy Canoza <LaLaLaLaLaLa@philhendrie.con> wrote:
>
> Sure did.

You fuckwit.


>
>> On 1/17/2014 5:41 PM, Winston_Smith wrote:
>>> On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 16:54:06 -0800, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>> On 1/17/2014 3:37 PM, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>>>>> On 1/17/2014 3:33 PM, Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>>> On 1/17/2014 12:56 PM, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I nominate this as the most egregious lie, the cruelest, the one that
>>>>>>> has damaged the US the most:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. No president said it.
>>>
>>> Denial
>>>
>>>>>> 2. It's not a lie.
>>>
>>> Denial
>>
>> Yes, because no president said it. Feel free to show otherwise. You
>> can't, and you know you can't. No one can - no president said it.
>
> Oh, boy. I was waiting for this. I expected it sooner. You set things
> up so YOU don't have to support a thing. If you were asked you would
> say you can't prove a negative.

But one *can* prove a positive...*IF* it is true.


> And that's all you do - deny what you don't like.

It has nothing to do with "liking" it or not. I know that no president
ever publicly said what the fuckwit, Pedro, is claiming.


> You can't ever be called. Nice tactic.

You idiot. Your buddy, the fuckwit Pedro, made a positive assertion:

A president said, 'Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.'

The burden of proof is *entirely* on Pedro, the fuckwit. *I* don't have
to show that no president said it; *HE* has to demonstrate that some
president *DID* say it.

I assert that no president said it. All he has to do to prove me wrong
is to show, with unambiguous and documented evidence, that at least one
president *DID* say it.

He can't...because no president said it.


>> Because the "US government" [sic] never said such a thing. Feel free to
>> show otherwise <chortle>. You know you can't.
>
> Chortling over your clever little trap, eh?

What trap?


>
>> Look, *cunt*:
>
> Ah yes, the classic liberal in a corner

I'm not a liberal; at least, I'm not a liberal in the contemporary
illiberal sense of the word. I'm not what you stupidly and wrongly
conceive to be a liberal.


>> And of course, we *KNOW* for absolute certain that she
>> can't prove me wrong, and nor can you.
>
> Refuge in you can't be asked to prove a negative.

No. Certitude that you two fuckwits can't support your positive
assertions. It has nothing to do with my not having to prove a
negative; it has *everything* to do with where the burden of proof lies.
It lies with your buddy Pedro, the fuckwit, and by implication with
you. You two clowns have to prove your positive assertion. You can't.


>> Prove me wrong, *cunt*. Go ahead - I can wait a couple of decades.
>
> Yup. Mom really loves the way you act.

Has nothing to do with my deceased mother, you fuckwit.

Come on, bitch - prove your assertion. Give Pedro a helping hand.





== 12 of 12 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 9:47 am
From: "Jim Wilkins"



"Jim Wilkins" <muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:lbeb29$sbe$1@dont-email.me...
> "David R. Birch" <dbirch@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:lbe6p701q5c@news1.newsguy.com...
>> On 1/18/2014 9:02 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>>
>> How many listened to that poor quality recording and didn't hear
>> "hold everything secure"?
>>
>> David
>
> This discusses the timing of "hold everything secure" in more detail
> http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/odell/
> "2. Both the "hold everything" and the "you want me" crosstalk
> alignments demonstrate that the suspect impulses happen too late to
> be the assassination gunshots."
> jsw

Listen for yourself. It's near the end of the History section.

Whether or not I can make out "hold everything secure" depends on the
bass response of the speaker I play it with. It's quite distinct
through the Cerwin-Vegas. Barber may have simply owned a better sound
system than other listeners.
jsw







==============================================================================
TOPIC: Taking over Fannie & Freddie was part of the Democrats clean up
operation for their own mess
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/27850e46baa11657?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 7:05 am
From: Filthy McNasty


On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 08:40:29 -0600, First-Post
<AIOE_posters_are_all_liars@AIOE.org> wrote:

>On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 20:39:40 -0800, Michael Bachmann
><michael.bachmann1978@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 12:08:36 -0500, BeamMeUpScotty
>><ThenDestroyEveryThing@Blackhole.nebulx.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > On 1/17/2014 8:10 AM, jim, front boy for a left-wing disinformation
>>> > collective - that is, a hired liar - lied:
>>> > Ha ha ha ha ha! Both are publicly traded corporations. Fannie Mae's
>>>
>>> > stock ticker symbol is FNMA. Freddie Mac's is FMCC. Both trade on the
>>> > OTCBB; both were NYSE listed until 2010.
>>> > Your handlers really put their foot in it on that one, front boy.
>>>
>>> If F&F were NOT bankrupt then Obama Nationalizing them and promising
>>> unlimited government financial backing was just an effort to steal the
>>> company from it's stock/share holders without paying them for their stock.
>>
>>President Bush took them over on September 6th, 2008. You're one ignorant
>>fool.
>>
>><http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_takeover_of_Fannie_Mae_and_Freddie_Mac>
>>
>
>Bush didn't take over a damned thing fool. Try reading your own cite
>idiot. And the housing crash had already occured when the GSE took
>conservatorship.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_United_States_housing_bubble

Oh STFU, you poop packer.




== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 9:47 am
From: Rudy Canoza


On 1/18/2014 3:30 AM, jim, front boy for a left-wing disinformation
collective - that is, a hired liar - lied:

> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>> On 1/17/2014 6:24 PM, front boy for a left-wing disinformation
>> collective - that is, a hired liar - lied:
>>>
>>>
>>> Rudy Canoza wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 1/17/2014 4:40 PM, jim, front boy for a left-wing disinformation
>>>> collective - that is, a hired liar - lied:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sancho Panza wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/17/2014 5:16 PM, jim, front boy for a left-wing disinformation
>>>>>> collective - that is, a hired liar - lied:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The cause of the crash was that large number of investors
>>>>>>> invested in products that could only work as long as house
>>>>>>> prices went up and were guaranteed to spectacularly fail if
>>>>>>> house prices fell 30%.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > The investors didn't believe that
>>>>>>> was possible,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nor did the lenders, both private and public
>>>>>
>>>>> The private subprime lenders
>>>>
>>>> *All* of the lenders, both prime and sub-prime, are private, front boy.
>>>
>>> Banks are public utilities.
>>
>> No.
>>
>> Your handlers really kicked you in your cunt with that one, front boy.
>
> The difference between public lenders and private
> lenders was demonstrated in 2008.

Banks are not public utilities. Period.

Your handlers really fucked that one up, front boy.





==============================================================================
TOPIC: Garage or shop Heater
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7c5d60dfc5f8691a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 7:33 am
From: "RogerN"


Looking for a heater to keep my utility room pipes from freezing, either
electric or propane. It would be ideal to have a thermostat that went down
to around 35 or 40 degrees F. Other than that, I'll use a temperature
control to turn on power to an electric heater or a propane heater with
continuous electric start pilot light substitute.

Heat tapes would do the trick for the pipes but I don't want residual water
freezing in the washing machine pump. This doesn't freeze when it's 20
degrees F outside, but we had a pipe bust when it got to -9 degrees F.
We've had pipe freeze problems twice in the 10 years I've lived here so I'm
thinking it wouldn't take much heat to keep the room above freezing.

Anyone know of an electric or propane shop heaters that have a thermostat
that goes close to freezing temperature?

RogerN






== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 7:43 am
From: Ignoramus20572


On 2014-01-18, RogerN <regor@midwest.net> wrote:
> Looking for a heater to keep my utility room pipes from freezing, either
> electric or propane. It would be ideal to have a thermostat that went down
> to around 35 or 40 degrees F. Other than that, I'll use a temperature
> control to turn on power to an electric heater or a propane heater with
> continuous electric start pilot light substitute.
>
> Heat tapes would do the trick for the pipes but I don't want residual water
> freezing in the washing machine pump. This doesn't freeze when it's 20
> degrees F outside, but we had a pipe bust when it got to -9 degrees F.
> We've had pipe freeze problems twice in the 10 years I've lived here so I'm
> thinking it wouldn't take much heat to keep the room above freezing.
>
> Anyone know of an electric or propane shop heaters that have a thermostat
> that goes close to freezing temperature?

Just buy yourself a Thermocube.

i




== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 8:07 am
From: clare@snyder.on.ca


On Sat, 18 Jan 2014 09:33:42 -0600, "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net>
wrote:

>Looking for a heater to keep my utility room pipes from freezing, either
>electric or propane. It would be ideal to have a thermostat that went down
>to around 35 or 40 degrees F. Other than that, I'll use a temperature
>control to turn on power to an electric heater or a propane heater with
>continuous electric start pilot light substitute.
>
>Heat tapes would do the trick for the pipes but I don't want residual water
>freezing in the washing machine pump. This doesn't freeze when it's 20
>degrees F outside, but we had a pipe bust when it got to -9 degrees F.
>We've had pipe freeze problems twice in the 10 years I've lived here so I'm
>thinking it wouldn't take much heat to keep the room above freezing.
>
>Anyone know of an electric or propane shop heaters that have a thermostat
>that goes close to freezing temperature?
>
>RogerN
>
Get a regular plug-in electric heater and a "plug-in" line
thermostat. Modify the calibration if necessary.


Another idea - use a contactor-relay to control the outlet you plug
the heater ijnto. Control the relay with one of the old round
honeywell mercury switch thermostats - calibrate the thermostat 10 or
20 degrees down by rotating the mounting. They are only accurate when
mounted level..
Third option - get a refrigerator thermostat and have it operate a NC
relay - reversing it's operation - it heats when the thermostat calls
for no cooling, and does not when the thermostat calls for cooling.

The plugin thermostat used to be a common item for "milk house
heaters" at farm supplies. Might even be able to get a "milk house
heater" with a thermostat that goes low enough. -

Or get a "block heater thermostat" - Here in Canada Canadian Tire
carries the Noma brand.

Or go to Home Despot and buy a "thermocube" - on at 35F, off at 45F.

Handles up to 1500 watts. I'd run it on a 750 or 1000 watt heater




== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 8:13 am
From: mike


On 1/18/2014 7:33 AM, RogerN wrote:
> Looking for a heater to keep my utility room pipes from freezing, either
> electric or propane. It would be ideal to have a thermostat that went down
> to around 35 or 40 degrees F. Other than that, I'll use a temperature
> control to turn on power to an electric heater or a propane heater with
> continuous electric start pilot light substitute.
>
> Heat tapes would do the trick for the pipes but I don't want residual water
> freezing in the washing machine pump. This doesn't freeze when it's 20
> degrees F outside, but we had a pipe bust when it got to -9 degrees F.
> We've had pipe freeze problems twice in the 10 years I've lived here so I'm
> thinking it wouldn't take much heat to keep the room above freezing.
>
> Anyone know of an electric or propane shop heaters that have a thermostat
> that goes close to freezing temperature?
>
> RogerN
>
>
Something that happens every five years seems like a perfect place for a
manual solution.

An incandescent light bulb of appropriate wattage placed close to the
area that might freeze works fine. You have to manually control it,
every five years.

Most any old heater with a bi-metal thermostat has a calibration adjustment.
Or, if it doesn't you can bend something.




== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 8:15 am
From: "Jim Wilkins"



"RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> wrote in message
news:wP2dnb2qDJdJA0fPnZ2dnUVZ_hmdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> Looking for a heater to keep my utility room pipes from freezing,
> either electric or propane. It would be ideal to have a thermostat
> that went down to around 35 or 40 degrees F. Other than that, I'll
> use a temperature control to turn on power to an electric heater or
> a propane heater with continuous electric start pilot light
> substitute.
>
> Heat tapes would do the trick for the pipes but I don't want
> residual water freezing in the washing machine pump. This doesn't
> freeze when it's 20 degrees F outside, but we had a pipe bust when
> it got to -9 degrees F. We've had pipe freeze problems twice in the
> 10 years I've lived here so I'm thinking it wouldn't take much heat
> to keep the room above freezing.
>
> Anyone know of an electric or propane shop heaters that have a
> thermostat that goes close to freezing temperature?
>
> RogerN

You could salvage the thermostat from a refrigerator and reverse its
action with a relay.

Or you could measure how cold the room gets with 100 or 200W of
continuous heat, such as a light bulb or
http://www.laskoproducts.com/myheat%e2%84%a2-personal-heater-model-106/
$12 in WalMart

I use mine to defrost my breakfast sandwich before microwaveing it.
jsw






== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 8:24 am
From: "Jim Wilkins"


<clare@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:gv8ld955r1bo74g24p02s5fmh8qb7l5rn5@4ax.com...
>
> Or go to Home Despot and buy a "thermocube" - on at 35F, off at 45F.
>
> Handles up to 1500 watts. I'd run it on a 750 or 1000 watt heater

Thanks. I plan to run another house cooling rate test during the next
cold spell and that will help determine how much (or little) electric
heat I need to keep the basement plumbing above freezing.
jsw







==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ping Richard!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1b38c3b536a8c4aa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 8:17 am
From: Richard


Forgive me if I don't get too excited about a cheap boat
1200 miles away.







==============================================================================
TOPIC: How much mercury is in mercury relays?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/28b8e3bc7aaa18d2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 9:28 am
From: Bob Engelhardt


On 1/17/2014 10:19 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> ...I wonder if it's a
> weight v. volume mismatch I'm experiencing. ...

Yeah, me too. It's our conditioning with water, I think. With water,
ounces weight and ounces volume are the same. So, I see "9 ounces"
(weight), I tend to visualize that as 9 ounces volume. 99.9% of time
when it's water or a close cousin, it works. With mercury, not so much <G>.

Bob





== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 9:34 am
From: Bob Engelhardt


On 1/17/2014 9:17 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

> A quart glass milk bottle of it in the 1960s -- Yes, it's heavy!
...

Let's see: it's 13 times the density of water; 2 lbs of water per quart
= 26 lbs of mercury per quart. A 2-handed effort. Bob






==============================================================================
TOPIC: NBC, CBS Blame Weak Jobs Report on Weather, Economists Disagree
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0ccecaa1bc81eb23?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 9:33 am
From: "Snake Oil Sales N' Service, BHO"


Many people had high hopes for the December jobs report with
economists� forecasting job gains of around 200,000. The report,
which was released Jan. 10, showed only 74,000 jobs added in
December.

That was bad news, especially after 241,000 jobs were added in
November. At the same time, the Bureau of Labor Statistics
reported that the unemployment rate fell from 7 percent, to 6.7
percent, primarily because of workforce dropouts.

The administration and two out of three broadcast networks
blamed weather for the disappointing report, but both liberal
and conservative economists dismissed this explanation.

(video after break)

Secretary of Labor Thomas Perez told CNBC�s �Squawk on the
Street� that �weather is undeniably a factor,� on Jan. 10. That
evening, CBS �Evening News� and NBC �Nightly News� parroted this
explanation. However, economists that spoke with the MRC�s
Business and Media Institute dismissed the notion.

�Evening News,� Senior Business Correspondent Anthony Mason
called bad weather �a big factor in December hiring,� quoting an
unnamed economist who said �Job growth got snowed in.� NBC�s
�Nightly News� also promoted the weather�s impact on jobs data,
with anchor Brian Williams saying �the unusual cold weather may
have been a factor in this.�

ABC�s �World News� spent only 22 seconds on the jobs report
mentioning both the job gains and the change in unemployment
rate, but failed to mention the amount of workers leaving the
workforce. Weather was not mentioned by �World News.�

Each of these segments was broadcast after Perez appeared on
CNBC and co-host Carl Quintanilla asked �How much of this had
something to do with the weather?�

He responded, �Oh, I think the weather is a factor,� before
delivering an anecdote about his own experience with the weather
over the holidays. He concluded �weather is undeniably a factor.�

This claim that weather caused the weak jobs data was disputed
by liberal and conservative economists. Dean Baker, co-director
of left-wing Center for Economic and Policy Research, told BMI
he would �totally dismiss� the weather explanation and pointed
out that the BLS adjusts their data for seasonal variations.

James Sherk, the senior policy analyst in labor economics at the
conservative Heritage Foundation, also took issue with the
weather explanation. He called it �grasping for an explanation�
when he spoke with BMI.

During the week of Dec. 8, when the BLS surveyed to gather the
employment data, national temperatures were 5.5 degrees below
the normal December temperature. But according to Business
Insider, Brian Jones, senior economist for the financial
analysis firm Societe Generale, said that �precipitation has a
much bigger impact on nonfarm payrolls than temperature.� Jones
found that �conditions were unusually dry over much of the
continental U.S. during that period.�

In addition to CBS and NBC, many other news outlets were playing
the blame game too. The Wall Street Journal�s Kathleen Madigan
urged readers to �Blame Mother Nature,� saying �273,000 people
couldn�t get to work because of bad weather in December.� The
New York Times� Nelson D. Schwartz claimed that �wintry weather,
however, may have exaggerated the weakness� of the jobs market.

Some took other tactics to try to explain away the disappointing
report. Mark Zandi of Moody Analytics, argued on �Squawk Box�
that they would be revised upwards in later months, as is common
with outlying data. Zandi told CNBC viewers that �Next month
this will be � we�re gonna get the benchmark revisions and
they�ll be revised up and away.�

Sherk was not so confident. While he acknowledged that the
December data �may be an outlier,� he told BMI, �I highly doubt
you will see revisions of that magnitude.�


http://newsbusters.org/blogs/sean-long/2014/01/14/nbc-cbs-blame-
weak-jobs-report-weather-economists-disagree

��






==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rotary Table Chuck Adapter
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f86c3d5e49c5f77c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 9:42 am
From: Ned Simmons


On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 16:48:46 -0800, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
<paul@hovnanian.com> wrote:

>I have a small table top mill (Grizzly), a rotary table and a four jaw chuck
>I'd like to fit onto the rotary table. The chuck has no through holes
>through which I can access the tee nuts to hold it to the table. Only blind
>holes on the back. The chuck is also the same size as the rotary table, so
>it covers the tee slots completely.
>
>Easy solution: Make a round base with a recess turned around the side where
>I can reach in with a wrench and tighten bolts into the tee nuts.
>
>But I'm thinking; Is there a way to tighten a tee nut with a cam, wedge or
>whatever from the side of the adapter plate? The idea here is to keep the
>adapter as low profile as possible.

I didn't try to get proportions right, but you should be able to get
some variation of this to work:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0CEZ4B96DHHU3BkM2hDS203Z00/edit?usp=sharing


--
Ned Simmons





==============================================================================
TOPIC: "Banks are public utilities"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8aebf6fb3374a24c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Jan 18 2014 9:48 am
From: Rudy Canoza


On 1/18/2014 3:49 AM, jim, front boy for a left-wing disinformation
collective - that is, a hired liar - lied:

> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qko25GSCCTE#t=245

Not a valid source for anything.

Banks are not public utilities.




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