twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 10 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Turkeys Voting for Christmas -- was The Lancet's Vaccine
Retraction -- A medical journal's role in the autism scare
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f7da32a69e030efa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:46 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

Ed Huntress wrote:
> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
> news:_d6dnS0YssU3LfTWnZ2dnUVZ_jSdnZ2d@giganews.com...

>
> Uh, just to be sure, you're quoting Unka' George, not me. I haven't
> bought into the Paranoid Style. <g>
>

Yeah, that was strange.
Quote Fix usually gets the attributes right but this is twice now today that
it's messed them up.

--
John R. Carroll

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:48 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

F. George McDuffee wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:20:03 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
> <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
> <snip>
>> If the government is not exercising many of its
>>> functions, responsibilities and duties now, why would any sane
>>> person let them acquire additional power and responsibility?
>>
>> Because it's been extremely succesful in - - - - Canada.
>>
>> You must have noticed that their own banking and financial services
>> industry avoided ( by direction ) the noose the rest of the world
>> ran it's neck into.
> <snip>
> =========
> A good argument for outsourcing. How much do you think Canada
> would charge to run the US? Nothing else seems to have
> worked....

I doubt that you could wrap a big enough ball of cash around that order to
get them interested.
LOL

I wish I'd saved the link to a piece Christia Freeland wrote for the
Financial Times recently.
You might have seen it anyway.

--
John R. Carroll

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:55 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"rangerssuck" <rangerssuck@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b7d08519-4fcc-40ab-9d7d-59a5009e19ba@r19g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Feb 3, 10:18 am, "Existential Angst" <UNfit...@UNoptonline.net>
wrote:
>
> The bigger point is, the world population is but a cageful of guinea pigs
> for Big Med and Big Pharm... need I cite countless example after example
> after example? Or the invention of disease just to sell drugs. Restless
> Leg Syndrome, inyone?

>No thanks, I've already got it. And I can assure you, it is no joke.
>Now, the interesting thing is that I got RLS as a side effect from
>another "safe" drug.
>
>If you want to talk about drugs in search of diseases, take a look at
>statins. They were looking for a drug to lower blood pressure. They
>found that statins lower cholesterol. They knew that people with high
>cholesterol levels had lower life expectancy, so they marketed the
>hell out of this stuff. As far as I know, there has not been a single
>scientific study that shows that lowering cholesterol levels by taking
>statin drugs increases life expectancy. But they sell this stuff by
>the boat load.
>
>I'm trusting that Ed will correct me if I'm wrong about the statin
>studies :-)

I've put that stuff out of my mind. I just take the suckers and hope I don't
keel over. So far, so good. <g>

It would be a ten-minute research job on PubMed, if you're bored today. All
you need for those efficacy tests is the abstract.

--
Ed Huntress

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:57 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:dJKdnYSMoO6gKvTWnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
> F. George McDuffee wrote:
>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:20:03 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
>> <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> If the government is not exercising many of its
>>>> functions, responsibilities and duties now, why would any sane
>>>> person let them acquire additional power and responsibility?
>>>
>>> Because it's been extremely succesful in - - - - Canada.
>>>
>>> You must have noticed that their own banking and financial services
>>> industry avoided ( by direction ) the noose the rest of the world
>>> ran it's neck into.
>> <snip>
>> =========
>> A good argument for outsourcing. How much do you think Canada
>> would charge to run the US? Nothing else seems to have
>> worked....
>
> I doubt that you could wrap a big enough ball of cash around that order to
> get them interested.
> LOL
>
> I wish I'd saved the link to a piece Christia Freeland wrote for the
> Financial Times recently.
> You might have seen it anyway.

It's here:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/db2b340a-0a1b-11df-8b23-00144feabdc0.html

Worth reading, IMO.

--
Ed Huntress

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:45 am
From: Pete Snell

F. George McDuffee wrote:

> A good argument for outsourcing. How much do you think Canada
> would charge to run the US? Nothing else seems to have
> worked....
>

Simple really, you just have to become the 11th Province! (insert big
grinning emoticon here)

Pete

--
Pete Snell
Department of Physics
Royal Military College
Kingston, Ontario,
Canada
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
In a car everything you see is just more TV. You're a passive observer
and it is all moving by you boringly in a frame. On a cycle the frame is
completely gone. You're completely in contact with it all. You're in the
scene, not just watching it anymore, and the sense of presence is
overwhelming.

Robert Pirsig

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. (1974)

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:50 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

Ed Huntress wrote:
> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
> news:dJKdnYSMoO6gKvTWnZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> F. George McDuffee wrote:
>>> On Wed, 3 Feb 2010 09:20:03 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
>>> <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>> If the government is not exercising many of its
>>>>> functions, responsibilities and duties now, why would any sane
>>>>> person let them acquire additional power and responsibility?
>>>>
>>>> Because it's been extremely succesful in - - - - Canada.
>>>>
>>>> You must have noticed that their own banking and financial services
>>>> industry avoided ( by direction ) the noose the rest of the world
>>>> ran it's neck into.
>>> <snip>
>>> =========
>>> A good argument for outsourcing. How much do you think Canada
>>> would charge to run the US? Nothing else seems to have
>>> worked....
>>
>> I doubt that you could wrap a big enough ball of cash around that
>> order to get them interested.
>> LOL
>>
>> I wish I'd saved the link to a piece Christia Freeland wrote for the
>> Financial Times recently.
>> You might have seen it anyway.
>
> It's here:
>
> http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/db2b340a-0a1b-11df-8b23-00144feabdc0.html
>
> Worth reading, IMO.

Off the subject completely but LaHood made a statement today that Toyota
drivers ought to stop driving their cars until they can be fixed.
How's that for poking your biggest competitor right in the eye!
I wonder if these turkey's EVER think before they speak. I'd be mad as hell
if I were a Toyota shareholder right about now.
My tax payments would have just enabled one of my competitors to mess with
sales figures and the valuation of my equity.

--
John R. Carroll

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 11:04 am
From: Pete Snell

Ed Huntress wrote:

> Speaking of interesting things coming from the UK, the BBC is running a
> great radio series about people voting against their own interests, called
> "Turkeys Voting for Christmas." The first one is about populist voters in
> the US. Sometimes it takes an outsider to see clearly what's going on here,
> like de Toqueville's _Democracy in America_:
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8474611.stm
>

Thanks for that Ed. Looks very interesting.

Pete

--
Pete Snell
Department of Physics
Royal Military College
Kingston, Ontario,
Canada
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
In space, no one can hear you sing.
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== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 11:23 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Pete Snell" <snell-p@rmc.ca> wrote in message
news:4b69c8d3$1@win9.rmc.ca...
> Ed Huntress wrote:
>
>> Speaking of interesting things coming from the UK, the BBC is running a
>> great radio series about people voting against their own interests,
>> called "Turkeys Voting for Christmas." The first one is about populist
>> voters in the US. Sometimes it takes an outsider to see clearly what's
>> going on here, like de Toqueville's _Democracy in America_:
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8474611.stm
>>
>
> Thanks for that Ed. Looks very interesting.
>
> Pete

You're welcome, Pete. BTW, if you want to hear the radio show (15 min.),
which adds a bit to the article, you have two hours (as of roughly 2:22 PM
EST) to hear it, before they replace it with Episode 2:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00qgyfc

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Not all 12x30 lathes are created equal
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/965ad3b681db4113?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:55 am
From: "Pete C."

Ignoramus26563 wrote:
>
> This Pratt and Whitney 12x30 lathe
>
> http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/tmp-6362.jpg
>
> probably weighs as much as three times more than this 12x36 lathe
>
> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=65044
>
> And probably two times more than my 14x48" Clausing.
>
> This is based on my guess that P&W weighs two tons.
>
> It is coming up for a local liquidation sale.
>
> i

I'd love to have that lathe. I have a P&W 10" tilting rotary table and I
have to use an engine hoist or forklift to get it onto the Bridgeport
table.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:04 am
From: Ignoramus26563

On 2010-02-03, Pete C. <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net> wrote:
>
> Ignoramus26563 wrote:
>>
>> This Pratt and Whitney 12x30 lathe
>>
>> http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/tmp-6362.jpg
>>
>> probably weighs as much as three times more than this 12x36 lathe
>>
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=65044
>>
>> And probably two times more than my 14x48" Clausing.
>>
>> This is based on my guess that P&W weighs two tons.
>>
>> It is coming up for a local liquidation sale.
>>
>> i
>
> I'd love to have that lathe. I have a P&W 10" tilting rotary table and I
> have to use an engine hoist or forklift to get it onto the Bridgeport
> table.

This is lot 214 on this page

http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/staticgallery.php?gallery=9511&page=9

PRATT & WHITNEY 12" MODEL C/M1694 ENGINE LATH Lot: 214 : PRATT &
WHITNEY 12" MODEL C/M1694 ENGINE LATHE: S/N 601: W/32" Bed; Variable
Threads & Feeds; 4-Jaw Chuck; 3-Jaw Chuck; Tail Stock; Controls

The auction ends in 6 days or so. It is near Chicago.

I had a pratt and whitney micrometer once, it weighed about 120
lbs. (no shit)

http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/misc/ebay/Pratt-Whitney-SuperMicrometer/ebayhist.html

It was actually purchased by a regular reader of rec.crafts.metalworking.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:06 am
From: Ignoramus26563

On 2010-02-03, Ignoramus26563 <ignoramus26563@NOSPAM.26563.invalid> wrote:
> On 2010-02-03, Pete C. <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net> wrote:
>>
>> Ignoramus26563 wrote:
>>>
>>> This Pratt and Whitney 12x30 lathe
>>>
>>> http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/tmp-6362.jpg
>>>
>>> probably weighs as much as three times more than this 12x36 lathe
>>>
>>> http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=65044
>>>
>>> And probably two times more than my 14x48" Clausing.
>>>
>>> This is based on my guess that P&W weighs two tons.
>>>
>>> It is coming up for a local liquidation sale.
>>>
>>> i
>>
>> I'd love to have that lathe. I have a P&W 10" tilting rotary table and I
>> have to use an engine hoist or forklift to get it onto the Bridgeport
>> table.
>
> This is lot 214 on this page
>
> http://www.bidspotter.com/forms/staticgallery.php?gallery=9511&page=9
>
> PRATT & WHITNEY 12" MODEL C/M1694 ENGINE LATH Lot: 214 : PRATT &
> WHITNEY 12" MODEL C/M1694 ENGINE LATHE: S/N 601: W/32" Bed; Variable
> Threads & Feeds; 4-Jaw Chuck; 3-Jaw Chuck; Tail Stock; Controls
>
> The auction ends in 6 days or so. It is near Chicago.

I also hasten to add that I saw it in person and had the impression
that it is very used.

When I asked about the tolerance that it would hold, the owner was
relatively evasive.

I would hate someone to bid on it and not see me disclose my opinion.

It may be in a better condition that my uneducated opinion suggests,
but I cannot avoid disclosing my opinion.

> I had a pratt and whitney micrometer once, it weighed about 120
> lbs. (no shit)
>
> http://yabe.algebra.com/~ichudov/misc/ebay/Pratt-Whitney-SuperMicrometer/ebayhist.html
>
> It was actually purchased by a regular reader of rec.crafts.metalworking.
>
> i

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Math site
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/dfbc9ccffca533fe?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 9:58 am
From: "Wild_Bill"

The Marv Klotz site has free home shop software and various types of
math-related solutions

http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz/

--
WB
.........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

"Steve B" <deserttraver@fishmail.net> wrote in message
news:v6sl37-mr32.ln1@news.infowest.com...
> I'm pretty good with algebra and trig. Yet, sometimes, I get stumped, or
> would just like to take the easy way out.
>
> I had a site on my old computer that computed distance around an arc by
> entering the length of the siatta and the flat measurement between the
> ends of the arc.
>
> Anyone remember that sits?
>
> Steve
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: If you need some good reading
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/917e0671d2729497?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:01 am
From: Ignoramus26563

Really great website.

http://sites.google.com/site/dannympwillems/home

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Oh Look...They Have Parents..Who Would Have Guessed?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/91f7e2c68f4a7e79?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:07 am
From: Beam Me Up Scotty

On 2/3/2010 12:22 PM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> On Feb 2, 10:57 pm, "Burled Frau" <acht...@jawol.jah> wrote:
>> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:47e3e3a2-609b-400c-8edf-3b5251efaaf7@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>> On Feb 2, 7:37 pm, "Burled Frau" <acht...@jawol.jah> wrote:
>>>> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>> news:9ff68fc2-b81a-44ee-b6d3-b3b9c7c3ce34@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com....
>>
>>>>> Looks like our Bible thumping Baptist child trafficers have a lot of
>>>>> explaining to do.
>>
>>>> Maybe the Baptists should have stayed home and let the devil worshipping
>>>> libs beg 0bama to kill them quickly, after not helping them.
>>
>>> More likely they made a deal with the Devil taking the lead from Pat
>>> Robertson.
>>
>> I'm sure that when the truth comes out, we will find that the parents of
>> those children probably begged the Baptists to take their kids away from
>> that hellhole.
>
> The truth has come out..the Bible thumpers were stealing children and
> they got caught.
>
> They have admitted it.
>
> They have credible witnesses to confirm it.
>
> TMT

Obviously stealing and helping is being confused and all the Bible
thumpers and their money should leave Haiti and help somewhere that they
are appreciated.

The *United Nations* the *U.S.* and the *Haitian governments* corruption
is concerned about competition to their own corruption.

If the private and "religious" would leave.... things would be many
many times worse. People are already climbing on boats to leave the
devastation and corruption created by the Governments involved.

Now the Government is chasing down church people who are helping rather
than the corruption.... imagine that.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:27 am
From: Beam Me Up Scotty

Obviously stealing and helping is being confused and all the Bible
thumpers and their money should leave Haiti and help somewhere that they
are appreciated.

The *United Nations* the *U.S.* and the *Haitian governments* corruption
is concerned about competition to their own corruption, if the situation
is allowed to improve and the children are offloaded to neighboring
Nations into orphanages and then brought back in six months to a year,
Haiti would lose their leverage.

If that happened then the huge donations to save the victims might go
away along with the supplies.... The children are the hostages to keep
the cash flowing to Haiti. The Haitian Government knows that the
Children are the key to the continued cash flow and their corruption
being profitable.

If the private and "religious" would leave.... things would be many
many times worse. People are already climbing on boats to leave the
devastation and corruption created by the Governments involved. If
these kids were to leave with a "paper trail" and via known rescue/aid
groups rather than piling into boats to sneak off the Island and maybe
drown should be a good thing.

Now the Government is chasing down church people who are helping rather
than the Government corruption.... imagine that.

The Government says the best place for starving dieing Children/people
is in the death camps amidst the rest of the death and destruction and
coming disease outbreaks where there is insufficient supplies to help to
keep them alive.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:34 am
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Feb 3, 11:44 am, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
dog.com> wrote:
> On 2/3/2010 12:22 PM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 2, 10:57 pm, "Burled Frau" <acht...@jawol.jah> wrote:
> >> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >>news:47e3e3a2-609b-400c-8edf-3b5251efaaf7@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>
> >>> On Feb 2, 7:37 pm, "Burled Frau" <acht...@jawol.jah> wrote:
> >>>> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>>news:9ff68fc2-b81a-44ee-b6d3-b3b9c7c3ce34@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com....
>
> >>>>> Looks like our Bible thumping Baptist child trafficers have a lot of
> >>>>> explaining to do.
>
> >>>> Maybe the Baptists should have stayed home and let the devil worshipping
> >>>> libs beg 0bama to kill them quickly, after not helping them.
>
> >>> More likely they made a deal with the Devil taking the lead from Pat
> >>> Robertson.
>
> >> I'm sure that when the truth comes out, we will find that the parents of
> >> those children probably begged the Baptists to take their kids away from
> >> that hellhole.
>
> > The truth has come out..the Bible thumpers were stealing children and
> > they got caught.
>
> > They have admitted it.
>
> > They have credible witnesses to confirm it.
>
> > TMT
>
> Obviously stealing and helping is being confused and all the Bible
> thumpers and their money should leave Haiti and help somewhere that they
> are appreciated.
>
> The *United Nations* the *U.S.* and the *Haitian governments* corruption
> is concerned about competition to their own corruption.
>
> If the private and "religious" would leave.... things would be many
> many times worse. People are already climbing on boats to leave the
> devastation and corruption created the Governments involved.
>
> Now the Government is chasing down church people rather than the
> corruption.... imagine that.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

There is NO confusion....the Bible thumpers KNEW they were breaking
the law.

They were STEALING children.

If a bunch of Haitians went to Idaho and stole 33 children, you would
not be making excuses for them.

TMT

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:47 am
From: Beam Me Up Scotty

On 2/3/2010 1:34 PM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
> On Feb 3, 11:44 am, Beam Me Up Scotty <Then-Destroy-Everyth...@Talk-n-
> dog.com> wrote:
>> On 2/3/2010 12:22 PM, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 2, 10:57 pm, "Burled Frau" <acht...@jawol.jah> wrote:
>>>> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>> news:47e3e3a2-609b-400c-8edf-3b5251efaaf7@p23g2000vbl.googlegroups.com....
>>
>>>>> On Feb 2, 7:37 pm, "Burled Frau" <acht...@jawol.jah> wrote:
>>>>>> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>>>>>> news:9ff68fc2-b81a-44ee-b6d3-b3b9c7c3ce34@b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com....
>>
>>>>>>> Looks like our Bible thumping Baptist child trafficers have a lot of
>>>>>>> explaining to do.
>>
>>>>>> Maybe the Baptists should have stayed home and let the devil worshipping
>>>>>> libs beg 0bama to kill them quickly, after not helping them.
>>
>>>>> More likely they made a deal with the Devil taking the lead from Pat
>>>>> Robertson.
>>
>>>> I'm sure that when the truth comes out, we will find that the parents of
>>>> those children probably begged the Baptists to take their kids away from
>>>> that hellhole.
>>
>>> The truth has come out..the Bible thumpers were stealing children and
>>> they got caught.
>>
>>> They have admitted it.
>>
>>> They have credible witnesses to confirm it.
>>
>>> TMT
>>
>> Obviously stealing and helping is being confused and all the Bible
>> thumpers and their money should leave Haiti and help somewhere that they
>> are appreciated.
>>
>> The *United Nations* the *U.S.* and the *Haitian governments* corruption
>> is concerned about competition to their own corruption.
>>
>> If the private and "religious" would leave.... things would be many
>> many times worse. People are already climbing on boats to leave the
>> devastation and corruption created the Governments involved.
>>
>> Now the Government is chasing down church people rather than the
>> corruption.... imagine that.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> There is NO confusion....the Bible thumpers KNEW they were breaking
> the law.
>
> They were STEALING children.
>
> If a bunch of Haitians went to Idaho and stole 33 children, you would
> not be making excuses for them.
>
> TMT

Are children dieing in Idaho? Is there a disaster in Idaho where
thousands of kids are dieing? Is there food and water in Idaho?
If a nuclear Bomb terrorist attack hits Idaho... I would thank the
Canadians for taking U.S. Children to safety in Canada.

Are the kids in Idaho hopelessly perishing because the help can't
possibly get enough food and water and medicine to save them?

If the choice is death or get them out of Idaho.... get them out.

Use a bunch of Canadians... as your "analogy" and yes I would just thank
them for saving American babies. Whether the kids get back to their
local families is a problem but it's better that they stay alive and
healthy.

If you go to a home and see children being starved, do you walk away and
fill out paper work? Being a liberal I'm sure you would do government
paperwork until it was useless and the kid was dead.

What do police do when some child is being starved beaten or tortured?

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:51 am
From: Lookout

On 3 Feb 2010 04:03:58 +0100, Sidney Lambe
<sidneylambe@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>On alt.guns, Peter Principle <petesfeats(AT)SNIPITgmail.com> wrote:
>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:50:16 -0600
>> From: Peter Principle <petesfeats(AT)SNIPITgmail.com>
>> Newsgroups: misc.survivalism,rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.rush-limbaugh,alt.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.guns
>> Subject: Re: Oh Look...They Have Parents..Who Would Have Guessed?
>> Followup-To: alt.nazi.punks.fuck.off
>> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:59:34 -0600
>> Message-ID: <78phm5tqfqadliufcjtaos8nn9cg12k3b7(AT)4ax.com>
>> References: <9ff68fc2-b81a-44ee-b6d3-b3b9c7c3ce34(AT)b10g2000vbh.googlegroups.com> <4b68d37a$1(AT)news.x-privat.org>
>> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118
>> X-No-Archive: Yes
>
>If it is worth posting, it is worth archiving.
>All the "at" symbols (Shift-2) have been changed to "(AT)", so
>these headers will be stored even more accurately at googlegroups
>(and other archives) than they would have been without that header.

You're a real asshole, aren't you?

>> MIME-Version: 1.0
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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>> Xref: newsfeed.x-privat.org misc.survivalism:323974 rec.crafts.metalworking:271093 alt.rush-limbaugh:331626 alt.politics:1709797 talk.politics.guns:381269 alt.guns:47354
>>
>
>> On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 19:37:46 -0600, Some KKKowardly KKKlown
>> KKKalled "Burled Frau" <achtung(AT)jawol.jah> drooled:
>>
>>
>>
>>>"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools(AT)yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>news:9ff68fc2-b81a-44ee-b6d3-b3b9c7c3ce34(AT)b10g2000vbh.googlegro
>>>ups.com...
>>>
>>>> Looks like our Bible thumping Baptist child trafficers have a
>>>> lot of explaining to do.
>>>
>>>Maybe the Baptists should have stayed home and let the devil
>>>worshipping libs beg 0bama to kill them quickly, after not
>>>helping them.
>>
>> Or, maybe the superstitious ignorant stupid asshole lying sacks
>> of shit shouldn't have lied, cheated and engaged in illegal
>> international baby smuggling in the name of the Lord, eh,
>> sparky?
>>
>> Or is that ever so complex ethical and moral concept just a tad
>> beyond the laughably limited cognitive scope of your desiccated
>> rat turd of a brain? Which part of "Thou shalt not...," is it
>> that so confuses you, KKKlown?
>>
>> --- Welcome to reality. Enjoy your visit. Slow thinkers keep
>> right. ------ Why are so many not smart enough to know they're
>> not smart enough?
>>
>> http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf © 1999 by
>> the American Psychological Association December 1999 Vol. 77,
>> No. 6, 1121-1134
>>
>> Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing
>> One's Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments
>>
>> Justin Kruger and David Dunning Department of Psychology
>> Cornell University
>>
>> ABSTRACT: ...the authors found that participants scoring in
>> the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic
>> grossly overestimated their test performance and ability.
>> Although their test scores put them in the 12th percentile,
>> they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd.
>
>The Right and the Left in America are the right and left
>wing of the same ugly, corrupt bird.
>
>They pretend to be enemies, but no matter which of them
>is in power, the same terrible things go on.
>
>And they suppress any real criticism and all real
>progressives.
>
>Land of the Free my ass.
>
>
>Sid

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:53 am
From: Lookout

On 3 Feb 2010 04:31:06 +0100, Sidney Lambe
<sidneylambe@nospam.invalid> wrote:

>On alt.guns, Peter Principle <petesfeats@SNIPITgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 3 Feb 2010 04:03:58 +0100, Sidney Lambe
>> <sidneylambe@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On alt.guns, Peter Principle <petesfeats(AT)SNIPITgmail.com>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:50:16 -0600 From:
>>>> Peter Principle <petesfeats(AT)SNIPITgmail.com> Newsgroups:
>>>> misc.survivalism,rec.crafts.metalworking,alt.rush-limbaugh,al
>>>> t.politics,talk.politics.guns,alt.guns Subject:
>>>> Re: Oh Look...They Have Parents..Who Would Have
>>>> Guessed? Followup-To: alt.nazi.punks.fuck.off
>>>> Date: Tue, 02 Feb 2010 20:59:34 -0600 Message-ID:
>>>> <78phm5tqfqadliufcjtaos8nn9cg12k3b7(AT)4ax.com> References:
>>>> <9ff68fc2-b81a-44ee-b6d3-b3b9c7c3ce34(AT)b10g2000vbh.googlegr
>>>> oups.com> <4b68d37a$1(AT)news.x-privat.org> X-Newsreader:
>>>> Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118 X-No-Archive: Yes
>>>
>>>If it is worth posting, it is worth archiving.
>>
>><yawn>
>>
>
>If it was a yawn, you would have ignored it.
>
>Duh
>
>If you don't like what I do, feel free to eat shit.
>
>[delete]
>
>Sid

No doubt you're the little idiot who told who moved out of their seat
in 3rd grade when the teacher left the room.

And you haven't changed a bit. No wonder you're all alone, no one can
stand you.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Sometimes I wonder about Enco's marketing strategy.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/700e9ecae69b0afa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:47 am
From: Mark Rand

On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 15:50:36 -0800 (PST), Too_Many_Tools
<too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Anyone who has a brain DOES NOT BORROW from the company they work for.
>

I not only borrow stuff from my employer, I lend stuff _to_ my employer. I
shouldn't have to, but it gets the job done.

Mark Rand
RTFM

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Home of the Free, the Brave and the Gay
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e498f6bd3200ff6e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:56 am
From: Lookout

On Tue, 2 Feb 2010 22:45:17 -0600, "Burled Frau" <achtung@jawol.jah>
wrote:

>
>
>"Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:c234722f-36da-4014-bf93-c7c023994591@c10g2000vbr.googlegroups.com...
>> On Feb 2, 6:56 pm, Henway <hoofhearte...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Feb 2, 5:39 pm, Too_Many_Tools <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > About time...it is only right that every conservative who wants to
>>> > serve can serve without his sexual orientation being held against him.
>>>
>>> > Interesting how McCain disapproves while the rest of his family is for
>>> > it.
>>>
>>> > And now the lying bastard is going back on his word that he would back
>>> > a change if the military said they wanted it changed.
>>>
>>> > So what would you rather have....gays in the military or a draft?
>>>
>>> > TMT
>>>
>>> > Top uniformed officer: Gay ban should be lifted
>>> > By ANNE FLAHERTY and ANNE GEARAN, Associated Press Writers Anne
>>> > Flaherty And Anne Gearan, Associated Press Writers
>>>
>>> > WASHINGTON – The military's top uniformed officer on Tuesday made an
>>> > impassioned plea for allowing gays to serve openly in uniform, telling
>>> > a Senate panel it was a matter of integrity and that it is wrong to
>>> > force people to "lie about who they are in order to defend their
>>> > fellow citizens."
>>>
>>> > The comments by Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
>>> > Staff, set the stage for the Defense Department's yearlong study into
>>> > how the ban can be repealed without causing a major upheaval in the
>>> > military.
>>>
>>> > Defense Secretary Robert Gates, appearing with Mullen before the Armed
>>> > Services Committee, announced plans to loosen enforcement rules
>>> > involving the "don't ask, don't tell" policy that has been in effect
>>> > since 1993.
>>>
>>> > President Barack Obama has called for a repeal of the policy, although
>>> > he did little in his first year in office to advance that goal. If he
>>> > succeeds, it would mark the biggest shake up to military personnel
>>> > policies since President Harry S. Truman's 1948 executive order
>>> > integrating the services.
>>>
>>> > "No matter how I look at the issue," Mullen said, "I cannot escape
>>> > being troubled by the fact that we have in place a policy which forces
>>> > young men and women to lie about who they are in order to defend their
>>> > fellow citizens." Noting that he was speaking for himself and not for
>>> > the other service chiefs, Mullen added: "For me, it comes down to
>>> > integrity — theirs as individuals and ours as an institution."
>>>
>>> > Congress enacted the law that enshrined the "don't ask" policy, which
>>> > was intended to soften the previous blanket prohibition on gays in the
>>> > military. "Don't ask" says gays may serve so long as they kept their
>>> > sexuality private. Gay rights organizations have called that an insult
>>> > and have said it is a form of discrimination.
>>>
>>> > Repeal of the ban would require a new law passed by Congress. Gates
>>> > and Mullen said their efforts are intended to make sure the Pentagon
>>> > is ready when that time comes.
>>>
>>> > The hastily called session gave Obama high-level cover on a divisive
>>> > social issue complicated by the strains on an all-volunteer military
>>> > force of fighting two wars.
>>>
>>> > Gates, who says he is a Republican, is the only member of former
>>> > President George W. Bush's Cabinet whom Obama asked to stay on. He has
>>> > gained a reputation for candor and caution. Mullen's words were a
>>> > forceful endorsement from a careful man, but his very appearance,
>>> > starched uniform and four stars on view, spoke as loudly.
>>>
>>> > Gates drew unusually pointed and partisan criticism from Republicans
>>> > on the panel for saying that the review will examine how, not whether,
>>> > to repeal the ban.
>>>
>>> > Arizona Sen. John McCain, the top Republican on the committee, icily
>>> > told Gates he was disappointed in his position. In sharp questioning,
>>> > McCain angrily suggested that the Pentagon was usurping Congress' job
>>> > in rewriting the law should it choose to do so.
>>>
>>> > "Has this policy been ideal? No, it has not," McCain said. "But it has
>>> > been effective."
>>>
>>> > Mullen looked pained when Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., suggested that
>>> > Mullen had preordained the outcome of any study of the wisdom of
>>> > repeal by signaling his own opposition to the ban.
>>>
>>> > "This is about leadership, and I take that very, very seriously,"
>>> > Mullen replied, tightlipped.
>>>
>>> > Several other Republicans sided with McCain, warning Mullen and Gates
>>> > not to pursue a change at a time when the United States is fighting
>>> > two wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and facing a continuing threat of
>>> > terrorism. Democrats said they would back a change in policy.
>>>
>>> > Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., and chairman of the committee, said a repeal
>>> > of the law might be slipped into a broader military policy bill that
>>> > authorizes defense spending.
>>>
>>> > Democratic Sen. Mark Udall said his Colorado constituents pride
>>> > themselves on allowing others to live and let live.
>>>
>>> > "You don't have to be straight to shoot straight," said Udall, quoting
>>> > libertarian Barry Goldwater.
>>>
>>> > Gates suggested that lawmakers keep the intensity of debate in check
>>> > until the military can get a better handle on how to proceed. To sort
>>> > out the details, Gates has turned to Pentagon counsel Jeh Johnson and
>>> > Gen. Carter Ham, who leads Army forces in Europe.
>>>
>>> > "Keep the impact it will have on our forces firmly in mind," the
>>> > secretary implored lawmakers
>>>
>>> > Mullen said it was his sense that rank-and-file troops would support
>>> > the change.
>>>
>>> > "I have served with homosexuals since 1968," he said in response to
>>> > questions from Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala. "There are a number of
>>> > things cumulatively that get me to this position."
>>>
>>> > Ham is a former enlisted infantryman who rose through the ranks to
>>> > eventually command troops in northern Iraq in 2004 and hold senior
>>> > positions within the Joint Staff. Recently, he helped conduct an
>>> > investigation into the shootings by a soldier at the Fort Hood Army
>>> > base in Texas.
>>>
>>> > As the Pentagon's top legal counsel, Johnson has played an integral
>>> > role into the effort to try to close the military prison in Guantanamo
>>> > Bay, Cuba.
>>>
>>> Why is it everytime a liberal/progressive gets in the Whitehouse one
>>> of the first things they do is try and pass laws that allow gays to
>>> OPENLY serve in the military?? Can one of you "highly edjikated"
>>> progressives explain that please??- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>
>TMT and his boyfriend (the one across the street who lives in the basement
>of his two daddies) should both sign up right away. While they are at it,
>they should be good citizens and report Curly and the Douchebag as being
>ready to serve.

Homosexuality really scares you. Why?

>> Why is it everytime a conservative wingnut gets in the Whitehouse one
>> of the first things they do is try and pass laws that deny gays the
>> right to marry??
>>
>> Can one of you "highly edjikated" conservative nutjobs explain that
>> please??-
>>
>> TMT

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Cleaning up the shop
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6ff81a03e8e9a9e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 10:59 am
From: Hawke

dcaster@krl.org wrote:
> On Jan 28, 9:20 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> <dcas...@krl.org> wrote in message
>>
>> news:938e0194-aaf9-4074-92f9-ecdf0fe0d2af@p6g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jan 28, 9:42 am, "John R. Carroll" <nu...@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>>
>>> When you want to reduce the cost of something, you go where the money is,
>>> not where it isn't.
>>> --
>>> John R. Carroll
>>> I think it is more like " When you want to reduce the cost of
>>> something, you go to all the places the money is. "
>>> Dan
>> Not speaking for John, but it seems to me that his point is that you set
>> your priorities based on where there can be the largest savings. Tort reform
>> will be a big disappointment to many people, should it happen, when they
>> find out that the total awards in malpractice suits (and estimated
>> out-of-court settlements) amounts to roughly 0.5% of our health bill. And
>> that's from a study done by the insurance industry itself. They have every
>> incentive to inflate the number.
>>
>> Substantially larger is the cost of malpractice *insurance*. But that amount
>> is still small. Much larger than either is the cost of "defensive medicine"
>> that supposedly is the result of all of the lawsuits. Some estimates(by
>> Price Waterhouse, for example) put it as high as 12% of our total health
>> care costs. Charles Krauthammer, not known for making cautious claims <g>,
>> says it's something over 20%. But no serious or independent study ranks it
>> that high.
>>
>> The thing is, the "defensive medicine" issue is not what it appears to be,
>> either. The evidence is self-reported and those doing the surveys say there
>> is a strong reason to believe that doctors overrepresent the numbers by a
>> large amount. Also, there's little evidence that it will be reduced by
>> "reforming" tort laws, for a variety of reasons. In some cases, insurers
>> expect more misdiagnoses, and thus more lawsuits that would result from
>> shielding doctors from large liabilities.
>>
>> So tort reform is a good idea, for psychological reasons if nothing else,
>> but you won't find much money there to be saved. We have a 50% problem --
>> our rates are 50% higher than most of the developed world, with similar
>> results -- and saving 10% or so, if that really is possible, isn't going to
>> heal the wound.
>>
>> We need to look under some other rocks for the money.
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>
> Agreed. But my point is that if you are trying to save money, you do
> everything that will save money. You don't say that is only a quarter
> on the floor, I will not bother to pick it up.
>
> Passing Tort Reform might be only good for psychological reasons, but
> it would help.
>
> We need to look under all the rocks for the money.
>
> Dan

First off, you don't do everything you can to save money you do what
makes sense. You don't waste time on things that bring minimal gains.
You go for the things that make real differences. Do you pick up pennies
when you find them? No, you don't because it's not worth the bother.
Same with saving in health care. You make the major structural changes
and you save a lot of money. There is no sense in saving a pittance when
changing the big things saves a lot of dough.

But everyone knows that already. Talking about things like tort reform
is just a diversionary tactic by the anti reform side. They know the
savings there isn't anything. But it means they aren't talking about
what has to be done, which is switching from what we have to a universal
system. Only when that happens will the major savings be made. Until you
do that all you are doing is fiddling around the edges. But when your
goal is to impede progress toward achieving the goal of a national
health care system you take every opportunity to change the subject to
things that are irrelevant. That is all the talk about tort reform is,
it's a way to avoid addressing the real problem.

Hawke

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A new "constitutional right"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8e77e80070fe5b42?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 11:10 am
From: Hawke

HH&C wrote:
> On Feb 1, 7:32 am, "HH&C" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 1, 12:35 am, Hawke <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> HH&C wrote:
>>>> On Jan 29, 4:26 am, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Unlimited funding for office from unions.
>>>>> Buy your rethugs now !!!
>>>>> --
>>>>> Cliff
>>>> Kindly list all of the republicans taht receive union backing. Take
>>>> as much white space as necessary, or even a little more.
>>> Why don't you tell us how much unions contribute to political campaigns.
>>> In total. Then tell us how much America's businesses spend to get
>>> politicians they want elected into office. Here's a clue. Business
>>> spends tons more on elections than unions do. You know that, right?
>>> Hawke
>> Why don't you tell me how many businesses print magazines telling
>> their members/employees how to vote.
>
> Little raptor, where did you go?

I was just waiting for you to tell us how much more business spends on
putting candidates in office it wants than unions do. Instead you ask an
irrelevant question about magazines. By the way, unions don't "tell"
their members how to vote. The members are free to vote any way they
want and plenty of union members have voted for republicans over the
years. All the union does is tell them which candidates will serve them
the best.

Business, on the other hand, pays for most of the election costs in the
country. But they get the people they want in office elected so it's a
good investment. It doesn't always work though, just most of the time.
Just face it, unions have little power compared to business. Workers
have little power compared to management. What, you didn't know that?
Haven't you every worked for a company before? Didn't you understand who
was the boss and who called the shots? But you never put it together
that business did the same thing with elections? Not very aware of
things, are you?

Hawke

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 11:20 am
From: Hawke

Harold Burton wrote:
> In article <MPG.25ce879040b1f0e1ef3@news.bytemine.net>,
> tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <Xns9D106EB31ED98hopewell@216.196.97.130>, "RD (The
>> Sandman)" says...
>>> rangerssuck <rangerssuck@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:58be7593-d33b-4fdf-817f-551cb726567e@21g2000yqj.googlegroups.com:
>>>
>>>> On Jan 29, 11:49 pm, tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> In article <f47f6fa6-0b75-4ab6-ba39-0856bfb9e442
>>>>> @d14g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>, rangerss...@gmail.com says...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 29, 4:13 pm, "RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock)
>>>>>> @comcast.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote
>>>>>>> innews:d8a5m5h
>>>> 871mrcn45nrdl24qcgb78fjj8su@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>> Unlimited funding for office from unions.
>>>>>>>> Buy your rethugs now !!!
>>>>>>> Excuse me, but unions support the Dems and the decision was about
>>>>>>> corporations and the last 60 days prior to an election.
>>>>>> Do you really think that unions have money to spend that's anywhere
>>>>>> near what the likes of Exxon has?
>>>>> http://news.opb.org/article/6560-ballot-measure-spending-could-top-ten
>>>>> - million/
>>>>>
>>>>> The groups on both sides of Measures 66 and 67 have raised a combined
>>>>> $8.5 million so far with no signs of slowing down.
>>>>> The Vote No group is getting support from businesses. The Vote Yes
>>>>> group, in favor of the taxes, is receiving most of its money from
>>>>> public employee unions.
>>>>> So far the Yes side is outspending the No side.
>>>>> Janice Thompson of Common Cause Oregon says that's not surprising
>>>>> since they'll have to work harder to convince undecided voters.
>>>>> Janice Thompson: "They're more likely to sit out or when in doubt,
>>>>> vote no. And so the yes side has to kind of get those default no kind
>>>>> of voters and get people out."
>>>>> Even at $10 million this wouldn't break the Oregon record for
>>>>> initiative campaigns set in 2008.
>>>>> That year unions raised more than $15 million to defeat a slate of
>>>>> measures sponsored by initiative activist Bill Sizemore.
>>>> And $15 million is about 0.03% of Exxon's PROFIT last year. A mere
>>>> drop in the bucket. The guys with the big money can now run their own
>>>> campaigns, dwarfing anything a candidate could reasonably do on his/
>>>> her own. Left, right, I don't really care (well, I do, but not in this
>>>> case). This ruling stinks.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I think the kind of spending that goes on in political
>>>> campaigns is obscene. To have a candidate talking about fixing the
>>>> economy or helping the poor or lowering the deficit while spending
>>>> tens or hundreds of millions on campaign signs and commercials is just
>>>> wrong. And that goes for BOTH sides. There's GOT to be a better way,
>>>> and letting big-money corporations run away with it is simply a giant
>>>> step in the wrong direction.
>>>
>>> What it really did was reverse parts of McCain-Feingold.
>> That is what upsets the left so much.
>> They thought they had a law there to muzzle their opponents.
>>
>> In fact a group that produced a movie very critical of Hillary Clinton
>> chose not to air it for fear of being prosecuted under McCain-Feingold.
>
>
> Exactly.

Exactly wrong. It had nothing to do with that. The ruling was about
corporate rights. This ruling expanded upon the theory that a
corporation, nothing more than a legal fiction, is the equal of a
"person" under the law. This ruling gives corporations what they were
denied in the past, which is the right to act as a person in the
political arena. That means the owners or directors of corporations are
now allowed to use their corporation's financial assets to influence
elections as if they were a real person. But they are not people and
they are in control of enormous financial power. They will apply this
power to get the people into public office they want. The unequal power
a corporation has compared to a person will allow them to sway elections
the way they want. All you have to do is look at how often the candidate
who spends the most wins an election. Now you can be assured that
whoever the corporations want to win will have the most money. You have
to be really stupid to think that is going to be good for anyone but the
corporations.

Hawke

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Chainsaw questions
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e6a654ae61cda7a0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Feb 3 2010 11:10 am
From: Leon Fisk

On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 09:30:59 -0500, Pete Snell
<snell-p@rmc.ca> wrote:

<snip>
>Lotsa good suggestions here, but I would check to make sure the tank
>vent is clear before proceeding....
>
>Pete

Didn't see it suggested yet, make sure the exhaust is clear.
Mud Dauber (sp) wasps like to build their nests in the
exhaust port here. Took me quite awhile to figure that one
out even though the symptom was obvious :)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

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Wednesday, February 3, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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