twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 14 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Train wreck . . .
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/dae93e33bd54a025?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Mar 15 2010 1:10 pm
From: "William Wixon"

"Greg O" <goo1959@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:z8Cnn.424019$FK3.116532@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
>
>
> My dad worked in the switch yard for a few years. I would stop by and jump
> on the switch engine and ride for a while if I had nothing better to do.
> Greg O

you were lucky! what year was that?

i went to china in 1986. they were still running steam engines there then.
i rode on passenger trains with steam engines pulling them. i thought how
cool it must be to be a chinese steam locomotive engineer. this one time we
were going through that classic chinese landscape with the terraced rice
paddies, was hilly curvy terrain. you could look ahead and see the engine
as it curved around the bends. was amazing. i had the feeling the engine
was a living thing and we were being pulled along by this fire breathing
steam belching dragon. my deep regret is i never even TRIED to get a ride
in the engine. i should've even BRIBED the engineer to get a ride in the
engine. i've heard since then they replaced all their steam with diesel or
electric and now only run special steam tourist engines.
at that time there were signs in the train stations that said you weren't
allowed to photograph the engines. i believe i heard your film would be
confiscated if you were caught photographing the engines. i have a vague
memory of standing on a train platform holding up my camera getting ready to
take a picture and the train crew just happened to be passing by and they
were waving their hands at me warning me to not take that picture. i
complied.
my second father's father was an engineer during the steam era.

b.w.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 6:54 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

When I was about 14 or 15, I got to steer a tugboat on the
Erie Canal. Much the same, I took a while to figure out the
steering. You have to reduce the turn of the steering wheel
well before you are pointed the direction you want. And, a
bit of reverse steer, to slow the nose of the tug from over
swinging.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Greg O" <goo1959@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:tU9nn.420278$FK3.80602@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...

"pdrahn@coinet.com" <co_farmer@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5f0bab29-de80-4549-960f-fda8b0a79a40@v34g2000prm.googlegroups.com...

>The older son of my sister-in-law's neighbor is a train
>engineer for
>the local railroad. He went through many months of class
>room and on-
>job training before he could drive a train. A lot more
>complicated
>than shown in the movies!

>Paul

My dad worked for the Soo, (Soo Line fo the old timers
here!), for over 40
years. He started on the section crew, repairing rail, and
ended up as a
conductor at the end. I was fortunate as a child to go on
the "road" with
him from time to time, long before all the rules and regs
took over. I
remember a few times getting to run a train down the tracks.
Yep! A scrawny
ten year old kid, sitting in the engineer's seat running the
speeds and
braking on a mile long train! Of course the engineer was
looking over my
shoulder giving me recommendations on speeds and braking. It
is quite a
juggling act maintaining speed in hilly country, I never got
the hang of it!
You need to anticipate when the bulk of the train is coming
over the hill
top and heading down the grade and reduce speed accordingly.
Also the same
for going up a grade and trying to figure out when to
increase the speed
selector to maintain speed. I was always over or under the
recommended speed
for the track, never did figure out the seee-saw!
Greg O

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:17 am
From: RBnDFW

jeff wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 14:55:38 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Steve B wrote:
>>> Robert Swinney wrote:
>>>> Naw! More'n likely the fear of electrocution on the spot. Pssst ! Don't
>>>> let the ME terrorists types know about that particular route to martyrdom.
>>>> It could ruin their visit with the 72 virgins; depending on which part of
>>>> their anatomy they touched first.
>>> With my luck, the 72 of them would all look like Hillary Clinton. Enough to
>>> make one consider celibacy.
>>
>> That would explain why they were virgins...
> no one ever said that they were females.................

Among the Afghanis and their neighbors, there is a time-honored
tradition of open homosexuality. It is likely that a good percentage of
the martyrs prefer their virgins to not be female.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Engine bore measurements - update
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/36b58dee016a3a28?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 2:48 am
From: "Steve R."

"Christopher Tidy" <cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> wrote in message
news:4B9EF162.1020807@cantabgold.net...
> Hi folks,
>
> I found my missing feeler gauge, so I've been able to check the clearances
> between the piston rings and grooves on my JAP engine. According to the
> manual, the clearances should be between 0.0035"
> and 0.005" 'on reconditioning'. The measured clearances are:
>
> 1st compression ring: 0.008"
> 2nd compression ring: 0.005"
> Oil ring: 0.0025"
>
> The manual doesn't give figures for the ring end gaps. The 1st compression
> ring has a gap of about 0.040", and the gaps on the
> lower rings are larger, much larger for the oil ring.
>
> My gut reaction is that the figures aren't bad for a worn engine.
> I'm inclined to replace the rings only. Does that sound reasonable?
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Chris
>

Might be OK! You just may have more oil consumption. Are there still parts
available for those old J.A.P. engines? As far as I was aware, their last
product was the Seagull outboard motor. For those who do not know, they were
J.A. Prestwich Industries, in the UK.

Steve R.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:31 am
From: John

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 02:48:42 -0700, "Steve R." <ud233@nospam.ca>
wrote:

>
>"Christopher Tidy" <cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> wrote in message
>news:4B9EF162.1020807@cantabgold.net...
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> I found my missing feeler gauge, so I've been able to check the clearances
>> between the piston rings and grooves on my JAP engine. According to the
>> manual, the clearances should be between 0.0035"
>> and 0.005" 'on reconditioning'. The measured clearances are:
>>
>> 1st compression ring: 0.008"
>> 2nd compression ring: 0.005"
>> Oil ring: 0.0025"
>>
>> The manual doesn't give figures for the ring end gaps. The 1st compression
>> ring has a gap of about 0.040", and the gaps on the
>> lower rings are larger, much larger for the oil ring.
>>
>> My gut reaction is that the figures aren't bad for a worn engine.
>> I'm inclined to replace the rings only. Does that sound reasonable?
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
>Might be OK! You just may have more oil consumption. Are there still parts
>available for those old J.A.P. engines? As far as I was aware, their last
>product was the Seagull outboard motor. For those who do not know, they were
>J.A. Prestwich Industries, in the UK.
>
>
>
>Steve R.

In my younger days, when I thought a motorcycle was the best means of
transportation available, a JAP engine was probably in as a speedway
or grasstrack racer or maybe a Rudge, or some other exotic breed of
motorcycle.... now this guy says he's got one in a LAWNMOWER???? My
goodness, an alcohol fed, 50 HP lawnmower???

I had to google around for a while before I discovered that J.A.P.
made all kinds of engines.

John B.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Machining falling block passage Re: Source for 4340 bar stock?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/670786a6a14e58b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 4:32 am
From: John

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:31:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
<huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:

>
>"F. George McDuffee" <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
>news:ksotp5pn3s0hjqkbjslsk2ale6el0tak06@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:59:59 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
>> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> I'd start with wirecut EDM, leaving about 0.005" on
>>>each side, and finish with a shaper and lapping.
>> <snip>
>> How about making everything slightly undersize and the applying
>> Moglice or Turcite for the final fit-up. Should be a very slick
>> action and if the Moglice is only a few thousandths thick the
>> compression should be tolerable. Anyone know how Moglice/Turcite
>> is for impact loads? If it works on ultrahigh speed million
>> dollar machine tools, it should work on an small bore rifle
>> action.
>
>I really doubt if they'd handle that kind of pressure, George. Their
>compression strength for those loaded plastics really isn't very high. If
>you figure 40,000 psi over the cartridge head, and then translate that to
>the specific load imposed by the back of the block against the receiver,
>it's still quite high. It probably would pound the block back over time.
>
>We tend to think of big cartridges as being harder for an action to handle,
>but the fact is that small, high-intensity cartridges typically develop more
>pressure. Then the size of the cartridge base enters into it. But for
>specific loads (psi), small, hot ones can be a problem.
>
>.22 Hornet typically doesn't develop a lot of pressure. But a K-Hornet can.

Didn't P.O. Ackley do some tests of forces applied to the breechblock?
I seem to remember having read something in one of his books. Seems to
me that they took a Winchester lever action, 92? 94? and tested it. If
I remember the final test was to remove the locking blocks and fire.
The bold staid close.

I have the feeling that the test might have been in support of his
"improved" wildcats with much straighter case walls but it was
interesting.

Of I have alzimers :-)

John B.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:33 am
From: John

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:32:58 +0700, John <johnbslocomb@invalid.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:31:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
><huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"F. George McDuffee" <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
>>news:ksotp5pn3s0hjqkbjslsk2ale6el0tak06@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:59:59 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
>>> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>> I'd start with wirecut EDM, leaving about 0.005" on
>>>>each side, and finish with a shaper and lapping.
>>> <snip>
>>> How about making everything slightly undersize and the applying
>>> Moglice or Turcite for the final fit-up. Should be a very slick
>>> action and if the Moglice is only a few thousandths thick the
>>> compression should be tolerable. Anyone know how Moglice/Turcite
>>> is for impact loads? If it works on ultrahigh speed million
>>> dollar machine tools, it should work on an small bore rifle
>>> action.
>>
>>I really doubt if they'd handle that kind of pressure, George. Their
>>compression strength for those loaded plastics really isn't very high. If
>>you figure 40,000 psi over the cartridge head, and then translate that to
>>the specific load imposed by the back of the block against the receiver,
>>it's still quite high. It probably would pound the block back over time.
>>
>>We tend to think of big cartridges as being harder for an action to handle,
>>but the fact is that small, high-intensity cartridges typically develop more
>>pressure. Then the size of the cartridge base enters into it. But for
>>specific loads (psi), small, hot ones can be a problem.
>>
>>.22 Hornet typically doesn't develop a lot of pressure. But a K-Hornet can.
>
>
>Didn't P.O. Ackley do some tests of forces applied to the breechblock?
>I seem to remember having read something in one of his books. Seems to
>me that they took a Winchester lever action, 92? 94? and tested it. If
>I remember the final test was to remove the locking blocks and fire.
>The bold staid close.

errr.. the bolt stayed close

>
>I have the feeling that the test might have been in support of his
>"improved" wildcats with much straighter case walls but it was
>interesting.
>
>Of I have alzimers :-)
>
>John B.

errrr... The bolt staid close"

John B.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rush to flee US
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/589453ba81b739ca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 4:59 am
From: Andrew VK3BFA

On Mar 15, 2:15 pm, grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost)
wrote:
> Lookout <mrLook...@yahoo.com> wrote innews:g1oop5pn2fm5ugg00h75926htfb1efprf9@4ax.com:
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 11:18:11 -0600, grey_ghost471-newsgro...@yahoo.com
> > (Gray Ghost) wrote:
>
> >>Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
> >>news:ibdmp59b8t3qd96jbq0b3hnqmjdkldp1qa@4ax.com:
>
> >>>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/09/limbaugh-ill-leave-us-if_n_4915
> >>> 36 .html
> >>> "Limbaugh: I'll Leave US If Health Care Reform Passes (VIDEO)" [
> >>> If Democrats didn't have all the incentive they needed to pass health
> >>> care reform already, then conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh may
> >>> have provided the final push they needed by vowing to flee the country
> >>> if the reform bill is passed.
>
> >>> Responding to a caller who asked him where he would go for health care
> >>> if Congress enacts reform, Limbaugh replied,
>
> >>> [
> >>> I don't know. I'll just tell you this, if this passes and it's five
> >>> years from now and all that stuff gets implemented -- I am leaving the
> >>> country. I'll go to Costa Rica.
> >>> ]
>
> >>> ***UPDATE*** In addition to private care, Costa Rica has universal
> >>> health care. This may upset Limbaugh's plan.
> >>> ]
>
> >>> He had all that Viagra last time, right?
> >>> And they have lax prostitution & drug laws ....
> >>> Why is he still here ??
>
> >>Stupid and predictable. I heard the original bit. You couldn't be more
> >>wrong. Well you could be and frequently are.
>
> > Nope. That's exactly what happened.
>
> >>And what's even funnier, he predicted that what he said would be taken
> >>out of context just as it is here.
>
> > It hasn't been. The tape has been played just as it was done.
>
> Gee I guess it's to bad you didn't hear it live and unedited. Stupid is as
> stupid does, Forest.
>
> --
> God, guns and guts made America great.
>
> And Janet Napolitano nervous.
>
> Which should tell you all you need to know about Democrats. How can one
> restore America to greatness if greatness makes you uncomfortable?

Hey - are you the Zane Grey ghost, or the comic book one?
Hey - how come you have time to do hundreds of posts, across hundreds
of groups, consistently. Are you some sinister evil force, a bunch of
bored office workers playing poke the lefty, or just someone with FAR
too much spare time for feral nightmare visions to breed and flourish
within your head. Or, hows this, a Secret Government Agency (ssh!) set
up to troll for extreme nutters, get them on a surveillance list. Just
in case.....
Andrew VK3BFA.
nah nah nah - consistently managing to avoid crossposting, as an
attempt at damage control.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 5:04 am
From: Andrew VK3BFA

On Mar 15, 4:55 pm, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:
> "Andrew VK3BFA" <VK3...@wia.org.au> wrote in message
>
> news:c18e062a-6e31-485c-85df-36ed0d11377d@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 14, 1:58 am, "RogerN" <re...@midwest.net> wrote:>
>
> Planned Parenthoods (Obama is their sock puppet) health care bill doesn't
> have support from Democrats or Republicans. That is why a Republican won
> Kennedy's spot even in a very liberal Democrat state. So, since the health
> care bill doesn't have the support to get it done according to the
> constitution, Obama's gang is trying to bypass the constitutional process
> and pass this bill without a vote.
>
> Proof Obama is a socket puppet for Planned Parenthoods health care bill:
>
> http://www.lifenews.com/nat6012.html
> Obama Gives Planned Parenthood Abortion President Frequent White House
> Access
>
> http://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/pla...
>
> "Planned Parenthood condemns the adoption of the Stupak/Pitts amendment in
> HR 3962 this evening. This amendment is an unacceptable addition to the
> health care reform bill..."
>
> Planned Parenthood determines what is acceptable in their healthcare bill.
>
> http://news.firedoglake.com/2010/03/03/planned-parenthood-nelson-abor...http://yubanet.com/usa/Planned-Parenthood-Applauds-Defeat-of-Nelson-H...http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0310/Planned_Parenthood_decries_Sen...http://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/healthreform/683.htmhttp://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/pla...
>
> For proof that Obama's gang is bypassing the constitution, go tohttp://www.alcj.org, click on radio and yuo can hear the actual comments of
> Obama and his hijack the USA team.
>
> RogerN

You are a hopeless case Roger - you take the time, and trouble, to
find (and presumably read) all those links to support your view.

Have you read your constitution
Do you understand your system of governance.
Do you believe in democracy.

This sort of REALLY BASIC stuff is taught in grade school here - thats
how I remember it, as we were taught about other systems. Including
yours. Do you teach it in the USA? - might help if your not.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:30 am
From: RBnDFW

Bill Noble wrote:
>
> snip
>
> >Most people don't want their
>> tax dollars paying for abortions.
> snip
>>
>> RogerN
>
> is it not presumptuous to speak for others whose position you have not
> personally verified? It would be honest to say that "you" oppose this.
> You, nor I are not authorized to speak for others. If you limit your
> remarks to yourself only, is it better to have no health care, or to
> permit something which you oppose in a bill.

Rasmussen Poll: Fifty-three percent (53%) of voters favor a ban on
abortion coverage in any health insurance plan that receives federal
subsidies.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/december_2009/53_favor_abortion_ban_in_health_plan

CNN Poll: A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Wednesday
morning indicates that 61 percent of the public opposes using public
money for abortions
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/11/18/abortion.poll/

Smaller poll: The Susan B. Anthony List surveyed 300 voters in each of
11 House districts held by Democrats identified as "pro-life." A
majority of these voters -- which include self-identifying Democrats,
Republicans and independents -- said that they would be less likely to
re-elect their representative if the member votes for "healthcare
legislation that includes federal government funding of abortion."
http://healthtopic.nationaljournal.com/2010/03/poll-abortion.php

here's a compilation chart of such polls, in PDF form.
Looks like a median of about 60% opposed.

http://www.nrlc.org/ahc/AHCPollsSummary.pdf

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Robo Plow, cool metal project
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/735f99871efbe5eb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 6:32 am
From: Randy

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tPg1ZMiC9pA

very cool.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:16 am
From: Louis Ohland

On 3/16/2010 08:32, Randy wrote:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tPg1ZMiC9pA
>
>
> very cool.
>
> Thank You,
> Randy
>
> Remove 333 from email address to reply.

Serious tool gloat. Like the red LEDs on the back, but something on the
top would probably be better. Perhaps a good use for the dorky bicycle
flags.. Reflective tape?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Figuring the Weight of steel stock, some simple methods
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1ea2525cce5e1034?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 6:43 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 15, 10:36 pm, GeoLane at PTD dot NET <GeoLane at PTD dot NET>
wrote:
> >My portable 1500 Lb hoist:
> >http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/Firewood#5287788505171720306
> >The legs are 2-3/8" chain link fence posts, about half the weight of
> >the 2" water pipe I use for heavier loads.
> >jsw

> How do you know that the weight limit is 1500 lbs?
> What's the weight limit of the one with 2" water pipes?

1500 is the rating of the orange lever hoist. I've proof-tested that
tripod on a stump with a chain fall and my 5000 Lb load cell. However
there are too many variables to say that anyone else's tripod will
hold a certain weight without actually testing it, and I just removed
the photo of the top connection from my Picasa site. It was meant to
be a pinned joint with the load equalized on both sides. I'm not
convinced it really worked that way.

You can determine recommended axial column loads from tables or
formulas but the difficult trick seems to be avoiding bending forces
at the ends or if something accidentally hits the post in the middle.
I give it a good shaking as soon as the load is barely off the ground
to see if the feet are stable, and sometimes they slip and it tips
over. I overloaded one of my previous tripods right to the Euler limit
and the legs bowed out with a slight touch.

The 2" pipe one belonged to a friend who used it to pull engines. A
dumptruck ran over it and bent one leg, so now it's weight limit is
zero. I found 100 lbs of pipe plus some chain at the top, with its
center of gravity over 5' above the ground, awkward and risky to set
up alone. When I bought the chain fall for it I chose the highest-
capacity one that I could lift overhead with one hand, leaving the
other hand holding onto the stepladder.

Army manual TM 5-725 contains a lot of good information on field-
expedient rigging, unfortunately it assumes plenty of free hands to
help set things up.
http://www.wilderness.net/toolboxes/documents/tools/rigging/Army_rigging_manual.html

jsw
not an engineer

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 7:50 am
From: Ignoramus25445

Jim, my feeling on the matter is that if the area where the pipes join
at the top, is done well, your tripod can hold far more than 1500 lbs.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT be careful driving through Illinoisstan
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/9c17389b1e9d1a9c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 6:50 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

With any luck, now that you're a convicted traffic offender
(eek! Hide under the bed! I'm scared!) you might not get
paid for your week's jury duty?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Bill Noble" <nobody@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:hnn06c$amg$1@news.eternal-september.org...
but that event will get you off the jury so you can go home

"Robert Swinney" <judybob@tx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:8r2dnWW2M9QaZwPWnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> This past Simmer whilst on the way to do my civic duty, I
> was accosted by
> 2 of the city's finest.
> It was a traffic thing, of course, and I was dead nuts
> guilty of failing
> to notice a "buss only"

>
> Silly me, expecting only a warning with my spotless
> driving record, I was
> handed a citation payable
> for $300. But, alas, it was close to a wash, considering
> the $326
> I was paid for a week of jury duty. Not quite a wash,
> though, if you
> count light rail fares and
> lunches.
>
> Bob Swinney
>

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:26 am
From: "Robert Swinney"

Stormin sez:

"With any luck, now that you're a convicted traffic offender
(eek! Hide under the bed! I'm scared!) you might not get
paid for your week's jury duty?"

Naw! All that happened last September. I got the traffic ticket on the way to jury duty.

Bob Swinney

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:hno2d4$ten$1@news.eternal-september.org...

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Bill Noble" <nobody@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:hnn06c$amg$1@news.eternal-september.org...
but that event will get you off the jury so you can go home

==============================================================================
TOPIC: HF 16" break?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0e3891f881baf081?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 7:14 am
From: Glenn Lyford

On Mar 15, 11:29 pm, "Bill McKee" <bmckeespam...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> Going through a late friends garage per his wife. I found a Harbor Freight
> box with a 16" sheetmetal break in it. Looks unused. These any good for
> light guage steel and aluminum sheet? Mount it to a bench top or pier in
> the garage? Some relative took the tool I wanted most. His anvil.
> Probably 1 75# one and top quality. He used to do wrought iron for a
> living.

Grab the number off the box and use that to search the HF website,
they have most of their manuals online...
--Glenn Lyford

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Metal Burrs...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/65a5a7919b9f1464?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 7:16 am
From: Andrew VK3BFA

On Mar 16, 6:29 am, "Joe AutoDrill" <autodr...@yunx.com> wrote:
> Opinion gathering...
>
> We were discussing why there is a larger burr on the back side of a manually
> drilled hole in materials like steel or stainless VS aluminum or brass.
>
> My theory is that the material is harder and requires more thrust and thus
> "breaks" or "shears" earlier and leaves a heavier burr because of it.
>
> Agreements, differing opinions, misc. ramblings?
>
> Regards,
> Joe Agro, Jr.
> (800) 871-5022
> 01.908.542.0244
> Automatic / Pneumatic Drills:http://www.AutoDrill.com
> Multiple Spindle Drills:http://www.Multi-Drill.com
> Production Tapping:http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
> Flagship Site:http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
> VIDEOS:http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
>
> V8013-R

Cosmic Forces?
Andrew VK3BFA.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bibles Wanted !
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f2e06ad69080532c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 7:50 am
From: Lookout

On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:29:08 -0500, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
(Gray Ghost) wrote:

>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>news:eb9tp55io7t3g8qfbd2p92h9e9lul22s6n@4ax.com:
>
>> On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:48:43 -0600, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
>> (Gray Ghost) wrote:
>>
>>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>>>news:9sf8p5dljf1sm4ip7qvqpp3jl6abqgson1@4ax.com:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 21:58:13 -0600, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
>>>> (Gray Ghost) wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>>>>>news:42s1p55ndjrjo2ackian63ig91i0btfioh@4ax.com:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 13:45:41 -0600, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 12:34:41 -0600,
>>>>>>>grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost) wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"lab~rat >:-)" <chase@cheeze.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>news:2ijvo5t4oondqpahjc1qk4rq60li04tq2a@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:44:33 -0600, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>> puked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:13:08 -0500, "lab~rat >:-)"
>>>>>>>>>><chase@cheeze.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:01:50 -0600, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>puked:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:12:41 -0500, "lab~rat >:-)"
>>>>>>>>>>>><chase@cheeze.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:16:11 -0600, Lookout
>>>>>>>>>>>>><mrLookout@yahoo.com> puked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:37:39 -0500, "lab~rat >:-)"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>><chase@cheeze.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 06:55:06 -0500, Cliff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> puked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/02/national/main6260
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 07 0. sht ml
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ya know, as an atheist, I really wonder what this group is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thinking about. The whole point of being an atheist is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>distancing yourself from a group of sheep that believe the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>same thing, but these assholes seem to be inserting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>themselves in the community to interfere with those sheep.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>They would be the first ones bitching if xtian groups were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>out there condemning atheists and ridiculing their beliefs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>yet there they are prosthelytizing every bit as much as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>fucking Jehovah's Witness standing on your porch Saturday
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>morning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>As I've pointed out atheists are as wrong as theists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>In what regard?
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no
>>>>>>>>>>>>deities
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>You can't prove there is no god anymore than a theist can prove
>>>>>>>>>>>>there is one.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>And furthermore, you can't prove one is more wrong than the
>>>>>>>>>>>other.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Go back and look at what I said. I said they are both just as
>>>>>>>>>>wrong as the other.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I saw what you said. I still say you're wrong. It's a logical
>>>>>>>>> fallacy to claim that's an absolute. If there WERE a god, and
>>>>>>>>> that god was as described by a set religion, then that religion
>>>>>>>>> would be LESS wrong than atheism.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> You're clearly agnostic as you believe that neither can ever be
>>>>>>>>> proven or explained, but your agnostic belief is just as capable
>>>>>>>>> of being wrong.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And the statement you should have said was:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "Both (atheism) and (christianity) are CAPABLE of being just as
>>>>>>>>> wrong as the other.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For now.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>But that being said, stories in the bible can be proven to be
>>>>>>>>>>>false.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>And some have some historical references that can be proven.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Clearly. I'm referring more to the magical miracle part that
>>>>>>>>> makes the bible a religious book.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Unless you have an astrophysical explanation for how the sun
>>>>>>>>>>>could stop in the sky, for example...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> lab~rat >:-)
>>>>>>>>> Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Yes but given a choice between Marx and Christ it really isn't that
>>>>>>>>hard to choose.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>One is real and the other is a myth.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Karl Marx was a political economist.
>>>>>> Very famous.
>>>>>
>>>>>He was a leech who lived off of others largess and then whined about
>>>>>his inadequacies and inability to do an honest day's labor. The fact
>>>>>that he wrote it down to justify it and many idiots have been fooled by
>>>>>his idiot tirade most likely earned him a special place in Hell.
>>>>
>>>> Karl Marx earned a living & is famed worldwide.
>>>> Has a nice gravemarker too.
>>>> Let's see gummer's.
>>>
>>>What ashcok you're an admirer of Marx. And no he didn't make a living,
>>>Engles supported him. His fame comes from having spawned the most
>>>soulless and destructive philosophy of the 20th Century that is probably
>>>the singlw biggest killer of the century.
>>
>> He started the winger movement?
>> Never knew that.
>> Have any cites?
>>
>>>And his gravesite is probably nice 'cuz of all the people that piss on
>>>it.
>>
>> You don't go in much of education or political or social science I
>> gather. "Oook Oook" is good enough for you I suppose.
>>
>>>>>Meanwhile Christ saved the souls of miilions. Yeah tough choice.
>>>>
>>>> "Kill a commie for Christ."
>>>
>>>When it comes to killing Commies, any reason is a good reason. the only
>>>good commie is a dead commie, preferably mutilated or burned beyond
>>>recognition.
>>
>> Hence they keep bailing out the US.
>> Why don't you pay off the debts the wingers ran up?
>>
>>>>>BTW can you actually "prove" Karl Marx existed, either?
>
>Cliffie, you little goof. You might want to take note that the Democrats have
>been running Congress since January 2007 and the White House since January
>2009.
>
>And in the last year they've doubled the debt.

Because of the bills run up by bush, dumbass.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:15 am
From: Occam's Razor

On 3/16/2010 10:50 AM, Lookout wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:29:08 -0500, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
> (Gray Ghost) wrote:
>
>> Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>> news:eb9tp55io7t3g8qfbd2p92h9e9lul22s6n@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Mon, 08 Mar 2010 20:48:43 -0600, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
>>> (Gray Ghost) wrote:
>>>
>>>> Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>>>> news:9sf8p5dljf1sm4ip7qvqpp3jl6abqgson1@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 05 Mar 2010 21:58:13 -0600, grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com
>>>>> (Gray Ghost) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>>>>>> news:42s1p55ndjrjo2ackian63ig91i0btfioh@4ax.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 13:45:41 -0600, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 12:34:41 -0600,
>>>>>>>> grey_ghost471-newsgroups@yahoo.com (Gray Ghost) wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "lab~rat >:-)" <chase@cheeze.net> wrote in
>>>>>>>>> news:2ijvo5t4oondqpahjc1qk4rq60li04tq2a@4ax.com:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:44:33 -0600, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>> puked:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 04 Mar 2010 08:13:08 -0500, "lab~rat >:-)"
>>>>>>>>>>> <chase@cheeze.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 14:01:50 -0600, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> puked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 13:12:41 -0500, "lab~rat >:-)"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <chase@cheeze.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:16:11 -0600, Lookout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mrLookout@yahoo.com> puked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:37:39 -0500, "lab~rat >:-)"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <chase@cheeze.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 06:55:06 -0500, Cliff
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> puked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/03/02/national/main6260
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 07 0. sht ml
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ya know, as an atheist, I really wonder what this group is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking about. The whole point of being an atheist is
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> distancing yourself from a group of sheep that believe the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same thing, but these assholes seem to be inserting
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> themselves in the community to interfere with those sheep.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They would be the first ones bitching if xtian groups were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> out there condemning atheists and ridiculing their beliefs,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet there they are prosthelytizing every bit as much as a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fucking Jehovah's Witness standing on your porch Saturday
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> morning.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> As I've pointed out atheists are as wrong as theists.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In what regard?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheist
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no
>>>>>>>>>>>>> deities
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can't prove there is no god anymore than a theist can prove
>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is one.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And furthermore, you can't prove one is more wrong than the
>>>>>>>>>>>> other.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Go back and look at what I said. I said they are both just as
>>>>>>>>>>> wrong as the other.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I saw what you said. I still say you're wrong. It's a logical
>>>>>>>>>> fallacy to claim that's an absolute. If there WERE a god, and
>>>>>>>>>> that god was as described by a set religion, then that religion
>>>>>>>>>> would be LESS wrong than atheism.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> You're clearly agnostic as you believe that neither can ever be
>>>>>>>>>> proven or explained, but your agnostic belief is just as capable
>>>>>>>>>> of being wrong.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And the statement you should have said was:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Both (atheism) and (christianity) are CAPABLE of being just as
>>>>>>>>>> wrong as the other.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> For now.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> But that being said, stories in the bible can be proven to be
>>>>>>>>>>>> false.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And some have some historical references that can be proven.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Clearly. I'm referring more to the magical miracle part that
>>>>>>>>>> makes the bible a religious book.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Unless you have an astrophysical explanation for how the sun
>>>>>>>>>>>> could stop in the sky, for example...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> lab~rat >:-)
>>>>>>>>>> Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yes but given a choice between Marx and Christ it really isn't that
>>>>>>>>> hard to choose.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One is real and the other is a myth.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Karl Marx was a political economist.
>>>>>>> Very famous.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He was a leech who lived off of others largess and then whined about
>>>>>> his inadequacies and inability to do an honest day's labor. The fact
>>>>>> that he wrote it down to justify it and many idiots have been fooled by
>>>>>> his idiot tirade most likely earned him a special place in Hell.
>>>>>
>>>>> Karl Marx earned a living & is famed worldwide.
>>>>> Has a nice gravemarker too.
>>>>> Let's see gummer's.
>>>>
>>>> What ashcok you're an admirer of Marx. And no he didn't make a living,
>>>> Engles supported him. His fame comes from having spawned the most
>>>> soulless and destructive philosophy of the 20th Century that is probably
>>>> the singlw biggest killer of the century.
>>>
>>> He started the winger movement?
>>> Never knew that.
>>> Have any cites?
>>>
>>>> And his gravesite is probably nice 'cuz of all the people that piss on
>>>> it.
>>>
>>> You don't go in much of education or political or social science I
>>> gather. "Oook Oook" is good enough for you I suppose.
>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile Christ saved the souls of miilions. Yeah tough choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Kill a commie for Christ."
>>>>
>>>> When it comes to killing Commies, any reason is a good reason. the only
>>>> good commie is a dead commie, preferably mutilated or burned beyond
>>>> recognition.
>>>
>>> Hence they keep bailing out the US.
>>> Why don't you pay off the debts the wingers ran up?
>>>
>>>>>> BTW can you actually "prove" Karl Marx existed, either?
>>
>> Cliffie, you little goof. You might want to take note that the Democrats have
>> been running Congress since January 2007 and the White House since January
>> 2009.
>>
>> And in the last year they've doubled the debt.
>
> Because of the bills run up by bush, dumbass.
>
>

Bush is in his third term, Obama is only Puppet President. I can tell
because every time something goes wrong, the Democrats say BUSH DID IT.

Obama is, the President *that never was* ....there's no proof Obama was
ever President, because BUSH DID IT ALL.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wingers keep lying !!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3e88a3bd89afa214?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:01 am
From: "§nühw¤£f"

Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> clouded the waters
of pure thought with
news:vk8tp55p10p353s6b1c0hjllbgtvrjkv05@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:25:43 -0700, Frito Pendejo
> <frito@pendejo.com> wrote:
>
>>Cliff wrote:
>>> http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/03/06/karl.rove.book/?hpt=T2
>>> ""[D]id Bush lie us into war? Absolutely not," Rove wrote "
>>> ""Would the Iraq War have occurred without WMD? I doubt it,"
>>> he wrote.
>>> "Congress was very unlikely to have supported the use-of-force
>>> resolution without the threat of WMD."
>>
>>A big lie indeed, since all it takes to get Democrats to
>>rubber-stamp a use-of-force or any other resolution is to attach
>>it to a trillion dollar spending bill.
>
> Find those "WMDs" yet?

Dewd! If they *didnt* lie they would'nt be wingnuts.

^_^

--
http://www.skepticalscience.com/
cageprisoners.com|www.snuhwolf.9f.com|www.eyeonpalin.org
_____ ____ ____ __ /\_/\ __ _ ______ _____
/ __/ |/ / / / / // // . . \\ \ |\ | / __ \ \ \ __\
_\ \/ / /_/ / _ / \ / \ \| \| \ \_\ \ \__\ _\
/___/_/|_/\____/_//_/ \_@_/ \__|\__|\____/\____\_\

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:04 am
From: "§nühw¤£f"

Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> clouded the waters of pure
thought with news:p52up5lub9g739itado4vq70ov9lr0t6sb@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 23:14:36 -0500, in the land of
> alt.usenet.kooks, "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> got double secret
> probation for writing:
>
>>Lying was very successful in the last 2 elections for the
>>Democrats. Did you think liberals were the only liars?
>>
>>RogerN
>>
>
> How many thousands of US Military and 10s of thousands of Iraqi
> civilians is enough that the people who lied should be held
> accountable?
>
>
Ohbama has already said "we're going to move forward" and not do the
acountability thing. Leaving Cheney et.al. to re-write history.
This country is a fucking joke.

Word.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Militant Ignoranti
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/9f00b27969b00d1e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:12 am
From: "§nühw¤£f"

Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> clouded the waters
of pure thought with
news:rmesp5pokfsooqmh9r350321bsrc50lqfm@4ax.com:

> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 11:05:36 -0500, "§nühw¤£f"
> <snuhwolf@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> clouded the
>>waters of pure thought with
>>news:vehpp5tbg8u7r20jk5peg8e5hl37eunag2@4ax.com:
>>
>>> http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott/2010/03/the-militant-i
>>> gn orati.html "The Militant Ignoranti"
>>> [
>>> Inspirited by Sarah Palin, Glenn Beck, and flunkies for the
>>> Discovery Institute, they're out in full cry, trampling through
>>> the hedges and braying derisively at anything that smacks of
>>> science, concern for nature, and a possible infringement on
>>> mankind to muck about as it pleases, regardless of consequences.
>>>
>>> Even so politically innocent a subject as bird mortality
>>> triggers acid reflux from the truth resisters, as pointed out in
>>> Mike McDowell's Digiscoper blog: ......
>>>]
>>>
>>
>>It the anonymity of the medium. Same as with "road rage". People
>>feel insulated in their cars so they act out. Who's going to punch
>>you through a computer monitor?
>>
>>Btw, its an excellent excuse for *not* washing the windows.
>
> Good point.
> Or for birds needing more rapid evolution if they are to
> survive.
>

Nice segue...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/mar/07/extinction-species-
evolve

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT More examples of generosity from President Obama
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e33e3d4c5b5a6f9e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:14 am
From: RBnDFW

Ed Huntress wrote:
> "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> wrote in message
> news:ZaCdnc9qpufhdgPWnZ2dnUVZ_omdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
>> news:4b9e5e80$0$4997$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>> "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> wrote in message
>>> news:-9qdnbXQx5HcwwDWnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:4b9bd1c2$0$31262$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>> <snip>
>>>>> To me, there are few things sadder than sincere people who get twisted
>>>>> around the little finger of media pundits because they don't really
>>>>> know what's in the Constitution, or how Congress works.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Ed Huntress
>>>>
>>>> If they already have the votes then what is the holdup?
>>> Roger, for God's sake, READ ABOUT CLOTURE AND FILIBUSTER! They have the
>>> votes to pass the bill (or they did, until they got saddled with trying
>>> to get the House to approve the Senate version, but that's a consequence,
>>> itself, of the damned cloture mess).
>>>
>>> By asking that question, you're telling us that you don't understand how
>>> Congress works. Find out. Then we can discuss this intelligently. As it
>>> is, you're speculating from a foundation of ignorance.
>>>
>>> Sorry, but that's the way it is. Find out what you're talking about.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ed Huntress
>> Ok, for Cloture they need 60 votes, like I said, they don't have the votes
>> they need to cram the Planned Parenthood healthcare bill down out throats.
>
> Roger, they need 51 votes to pass the bill. The cloture rule is a Senate
> rule for debate that keeps getting changed to suit the mood of the Senators
> in office at the time. It has NOTHING to do with the Constitution, or with
> the majority needed to pass a bill.
>
> There are a lot of rules in the Senate. They can invoke one or the other for
> political reasons, but they can't get around the 51 vote majority needed to
> pass a bill.

Pelosi begs to differ:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/15/AR2010031503742_pf.html

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What sort of surface plate is this?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c2e43cb2e443c86d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:26 am
From: "anorton"

"stu" <no where just yet> wrote in message
news:4b9f2609$0$1783$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4b9e4d89$0$31271$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>
>> "stu" <no where just yet> wrote in message
>> news:4b9cc196$0$16520$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>
>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>> news:4b9c25ba$0$5011$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>>>
>>>> "stu" <no where just yet> wrote in message
>>>> news:4b9c2225$0$1783$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:4b9bf249$0$31281$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message news:...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <pentagrid@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:chpnp5tmli6f21tp685hts7mguookv6r64@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 00:55:03 +1100, "stu" <no where just yet>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>><pentagrid@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>news:cu3np5la85p48d0vchp58tos9do4fun5me@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 20:55:17 +1100, "stu" <no where just yet>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>I've just posted a picture in http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox
>>>>>>>>>>>called
>>>>>>>>>>>"stusplate"(is it the done thing to put a direct link here?)
>>>>>>>>>>>As you can see from the reflection of newpaper, the surface has a
>>>>>>>>>>>very
>>>>>>>>>>>fine
>>>>>>>>>>>finish like no surface plate I have ever seen. It comes in a felt
>>>>>>>>>>>lined
>>>>>>>>>>>lockable box. Does anyone have any idea what this sort of plate
>>>>>>>>>>>is?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Could be an optical flat. Your jpg doesn't show the size.
>>>>>>>>>> Inspection grade optical flats are typically 5 or 6" dia and
>>>>>>>>>> polished flat to within a fraction of the wavelength of green
>>>>>>>>>> light.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Jim
>>>>>>>>>So that would be pretty flat then lol
>>>>>>>>>I have two, one is 170mm(7inches) x 35mm(1.5inches) thick. The
>>>>>>>>>other is
>>>>>>>>>220mm(9inches) x 35mm(1.5inches)they are labeled "precison plate"
>>>>>>>>>I thought about optical flats but I thought they were made from
>>>>>>>>>glass?(although I'm not even sure I've ever seen an optical flat)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Most optical flats are glass or quartz. I have a 6"dia x 1/2"
>>>>>>>> glass flat. Although your flats are opaque, bearing in mind the
>>>>>>>> polish, the thickness and the careful packaging, I still think
>>>>>>>> they are likely to be flat to optical precision standard
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Jim.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Stu has a couple of toolmaker's flats. They're made with a surface
>>>>>>> that allows a gage block to be wrung to the surface, so that clamps
>>>>>>> aren't needed. It's frequently used in gage labs for qualifying and
>>>>>>> certifying instruments. Standard sizes are 2" and 4", so Stu's are
>>>>>>> something pretty special. I've seen them that big, though, in
>>>>>>> Mitutoyo's qualification lab.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you keep that surface scratch-free, there's no better way to set
>>>>>>> up a stack of gage blocks to extreme, certifiable, transferable
>>>>>>> accuracy.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Ed Huntress
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, I should mention that their original purpose, which is now about
>>>>>> 30 or 40 years out of date, was to qualify custom gages that were
>>>>>> used in production manufacturing -- go/no-go snap gages and so on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Ed Huntress
>>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks Ed (and others)
>>>>> There are some light scratches in the small one, just behind the
>>>>> person it the photo. I didn't do a very good job cleaning the block as
>>>>> I wasn't sure what to use. I'm yet to clean the large one, I'll try to
>>>>> get onto it this evening, but what to use? I'm guessing "kero and a
>>>>> rag" aren't the done thing.
>>>>
>>>> Kero and a rag isn't bad at all. Don't use anything the least bit
>>>> abrasive or corrosive to steel. No Windex. Then lightly oil it with a
>>>> rag and put it away. Wipe the oil off before using. If you're going to
>>>> try wringing gage blocks against them, clean with a solvent on the
>>>> working surface, really well, first. Paint thinner should do it.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe you are right about the "production manufacturing ", they
>>>>> have a name plate from a wire company where I am guessing they were
>>>>> used, but they have no other name on them.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm try and get some more info on here tonight.
>>>>> thanks again
>>>>>
>>>>> Stu
>>>>
>>>> You're welcome, Stu. They're interesting tools and they don't take up
>>>> much room. With scratches, you probably won't get much for them, so
>>>> you'd might as well keep them.
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a set of gage blocks?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Ed Huntress
>>> I've uploaded a couple of pictures of the large plate after a quick
>>> clean wipe of kero.
>>> http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox/stusplatelarge.jpg
>>> http://www.metalworking.com/Dropbox/stusplatelargeb.jpg
>>> as you can see the isnt as good as the small one. I would think that it
>>> is still plenty good enough for me. It will be nice to have something
>>> "flat" in the shed, even if it is a little over the top.
>>>
>>> I dont have gauge blocks yet although I am keeping an eye out for some,
>>> I cant really think of an excuse to buy a new set.
>>
>> You may or may not have a need for them, depending upon the kind of work
>> you do. I don't think most hobbyists need a full set of gage blocks, but
>> I do find use for a few very good ones, to check my mikes, calipers, and
>> height gage.
>>
>> But those plates you have are not something any of us would really need,
>> either. They're nice to have. You can get some use out of them, but it's
>> unlikely you'll be qualifying gages or making production gages. <g>
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>>
> Very interesting info guys. I was thinking about spotting them with
> bearing blue to see how close to each other they are. There wouldn't be a
> problem with that would there?
>
> As far as needing gauge blocks goes. All of my work so far(very limited
> and not in the same league accuracy wise) is what I call "comparison
> measuring", so my mic's could be calibrated in westernwigets for all it
> matters. As long as they are consistent.
>

I would not try that. You want to minimize sliding of anything on top of
these to prevent scratches. Besides, it will not tell you much. These plates
should be flat to better than 300 nanometers which is probably a little
thinner than the dye layer. You really need optical methods to test them. If
you are interested, google "making optical flats", some of those pages
outline test methods an amateur can do.

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Tuesday, March 16, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

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