twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 12 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT -- off grid power systems
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/284c9711ef5c39e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 12:04 am
From: Ted Frater

Steve W. wrote:
> Ted Frater wrote:
>> David Lesher wrote:
>>> I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar
>>> array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid
>>> {"meter backwards"}.
>>>
>>> And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered
>>> around such.
>>>
>>>
>> Weve been off grid for some 39 yrs.
>> used diesels for power generation, on demand systems by Lister, called
>> the startamatic set up.
>> 5 yrs ago found 3 tons of nicad alkaline( sodium hydroxide ) batteries.
>> so then invested in an 3kw "outback" US system of charger/inverter.
>> Been in use for 6 months and has proved very efficient.
>> Next step is to use one of our 6/1 diesels running on straight
>> vegetable oil as a dc generator to eliminate the use of fossil fuel.
>> Will need to make a suitable alternator aka windmill permanent magnet type.
>> as for solar, this could be a possibility but due to the poor UK
>> weatherm sunshine is not reliable enough for us.
>> also the cost of connecting to our uk grid is prohibitive, due to the
>> distance.
>> Google for outback there the best right now for what you want.
>> Ted
>> Dorset
>> uk
>
> I though UK sunshine was measure in inches per hour...!!!
>
> I built a couple of the MEN style conventional wind turbines a few years
> ago. They work OK but I'm thinking of building a couple vertical vane
> units to eliminate many problems that you have with conventional wind
> turbines. No need for a wind vane or directional control. Should be able
> to put the actual generator at the base and use a simple shaft up to the
> vanes. MUCH easier service that way.
>
> With all the Amish around here now I might even have a market for them!
> Most of them use an automatic diesel system for the milk house to
> provide vacuum and cooling and air power.
>

Re Vertical axis wind turbine,
My son ,( now 26) researched, designed and built for his senior school
CDT final year project some 10 yrs ago a 10ft tall vertical axis 3 blade
darius windurbine for just this purpose.
The intersting bit was the blade making. If you like I can write up what
we did.We still have all the. bits somewhere in a shed. we used an all
metal construction for them.very strong and simple.
however the advantages of this type of wind turbine are outweighed by
its poorer efficiency than the horizontal axis type.To get the same
power output they need to be twice as big.
Ie there only 50% as efficient as the other type.Sorry to say.
whatever anyone else may say.
In 15mph wind tests it spun well , tho it was out of balance due to
blade inaccuraces
We also had a neibour who built a horizontal axis turbine some 20ft dia.
using 4 3ft dia cones. this was effectively a drag machine with the
torque output being the difference between the drag of the down wind
going cups and the upwind . going ones.
Never heard how he got on. Been dismantled some time.
Can find out again if you would like to know.
Ted
in Dorset UK.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:39 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 26, 9:37 pm, David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
> I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar
> array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid
> {"meter backwards"}.
>
> And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered
> around such.

A few offgridders have posted on alt.energy.homepower but the level of
technical info was far lower than here on R.C.M.

jsw

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 6:32 am
From: spaco

Your request doesn't seem to be an "off grid" request, but here's my reply.

a.s.photovoltaic is one newsgroup that deals with things solar-PV. You
have to put up with some guys who like to beat eachother up, but if you
persist, you can learn some things.

I have two friends within 50 miles of me who have put up 3Kw and 7Kw pv
systems recently.
They are both grid tied. One cost about $40,000 and the other cost
about $70,000. Rebates pay about 1/2 of that back in Wisconsin.
They both supply their local load and do grid tie, but if the power
goes away, neither of them generate for local use.
You have to spend more money to get that feature, I am told.
Also, neither one of them went with batteries. We have a pretty
reliable grid here.

Pete Stanaitis
---------------------------------

David Lesher wrote:

> I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar
> array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid
> {"meter backwards"}.
>
> And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered
> around such.
>
>

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 6:35 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Steve Spence, at Greentrust (he's got a web page
http://www.green-trust.org/wordpress/ ) might know that
kind of thing. He's big alternative energy guy.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"David Lesher" <wb8foz@panix.com> wrote in message
news:hojngk$rm7$1@reader1.panix.com...
I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a
solar
array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid
{"meter backwards"}.

And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??]
centered
around such.

--
A host is a host from coast to
coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301)
56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't
close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or
dead....................................20915-1433

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 6:40 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 05:39:48 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins
<kb1dal@gmail.com> scrawled the following:

>On Mar 26, 9:37�pm, David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
>> I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar
>> array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid
>> {"meter backwards"}.
>>
>> And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered
>> around such.
>
>
>A few offgridders have posted on alt.energy.homepower but the level of
>technical info was far lower than here on R.C.M.

I'm interested in this stuff, too, and found the same lack of in-depth
info on AEH depressing. The breadth and depth of info found here is
wonderful. Great group.

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 7:02 am
From: Jesse

On Mar 27, 9:40 am, Larry Jaques <ljaq...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 05:39:48 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins
> <kb1...@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
>
> >On Mar 26, 9:37 pm, David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
> >> I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar
> >> array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid
> >> {"meter backwards"}.
>
> >> And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered
> >> around such.
>
> >A few offgridders have posted on alt.energy.homepower but the level of
> >technical info was far lower than here on R.C.M.
>
> I'm interested in this stuff, too, and found the same lack of in-depth
> info on AEH depressing. The breadth and depth of info found here is
> wonderful. Great group.
>
> --
> "Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
> -=-=-

Try searching Backwoodshome.com. It is a magazine for self-reliant
living. You can search their back issues for past articles. It is a
great magazine. Tons of solar articles over the years.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anniversary of an amazingly enduring design
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/57c9c3facffdfb67?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 12:40 am
From: "Karl Townsend"

"Don Foreman" <dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:127rq55sotskkdbqrodkqs08e4kmdrlu9v@4ax.com...
> Monday, March 29, is the 99th anniversary of the legendary 1911
> semiautomatic pistol designed by John Moses Browning.
...

There's a one hour biography show on JMB I've seen on the History or
Military Channel. I would guess there would be a replay on Monday. The man
was an incredible genious. How he could conceive such complex and reliable
mechanisims is beyond me.

And, he didn't have AutoCAD or Alibre to do his designs <VBG>

Karl

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Who will be the first?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f434d5963fd21822?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 2:07 am
From: Steve B

On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 20:56:13 -0700, Steve B wrote:

>
> "Steve B" <deserttraver@fishymail.net> wrote in message
> news:hoijn3$62d$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 06:56:32 -0700, Steve B wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'll meet you at the corner of Pecos and Tropicana at 1 PM. I have a big
>>> red Dodge Ram 2500 pickup. See you then.
>>>
>>> Steve
>>
>> Panhandling?
>
> I was there today. Where were you, you cowardly piece of shit?
>
> Steve

Wait till tomorrow, I can't stop laughing long enough right now.
I'll bet your Mom has nicknames for you that you haven't heard.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 3:29 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 02:03:33 -0500, Don Foreman
<dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 11:56:20 -0700, wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 12:02:32 -0500, Don Foreman
>><dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 08:25:37 -0700, wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 02:01:02 -0500, Don Foreman
>>>><dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:13:25 -0700, wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's nothing patriotic about anarchy. There is also nothing
>>>>>>>> patriotic about acceptance of greed and corruption in our congress and
>>>>>>>> offensive arrogance exhibited by our elected president.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Your point would be more meaningful if not for the fact that you get
>>>>>>offended, or at least pretend to be offended, by things like missing
>>>>>>uppercase.
>>>>>
>>>>>You may have me confused with someone else
>>>>
>>>>Nope. I remember two times, one the "g" in god, and one with
>>>>somebody's surname I think. Both were part of your trying to avoid
>>>>responding to straight talk. I also remember comparing you to someone
>>>>I knew who took offense at the wearing of ball caps in restaurants. I
>>>>thought that everybody had heard the fable about the boy who cried
>>>>wolf, but apparently not.
>>>>
>>>>> I don't recall declaring
>>>>>offense by missing upper case. I've no problem with the writings of
>>>>>poet e.e. cummings who sometimes eschewed use of uppercase letters.
>>>>>
>>>>>In any case, upper or lower, do you disagree with my assertions?
>>>>
>>>>Only the mealy-mouthed parts.
>>>>
>>>>> Do
>>>>>you support anarchy, greed and corruption in our congress
>>>>
>>>>Of course I don't, and you well know it. Perhaps you thought that
>>>>asking that question might get me to take you more seriously? LOL
>>>>Meanwhile, apparently you've also forgotten that you and gummer have
>>>>discussed trusting each other in foxholes, as well as the need to
>>>>watch out for 12 year-old girls who might sneak up and flatten your
>>>>tires during a sortie. My point then was that anarchist loudmouth old
>>>>farts are a joke, but the two of you seemed to be taking it pretty
>>>>seriously.
>>>>
>>>>> and
>>>>>presidential arrogance?
>>>>
>>>>There you go again. You not only proclaimed Obama arrogant, but
>>>>implied that he rates right up there with Bush in that department. Yet
>>>>you don't say what you based that on, because trying to flesh out that
>>>>opinion would be like explaining why lakes and toilets are equally
>>>>good for fishing.
>>>>
>>>>Wayne
>>>
>>>Personal attack, insults, name-calling, irrelevancies, gross
>>>distortions and outright falsehoods.
>>
>>Gosh, what a shock, you back up your declarations by sidestepping with
>>more declarations. Again, just like Boehner, whose sincere <guffaw>
>>call for civility was accompanied by an apparent failure to recall
>>that he's been using words like "Armageddon". As evidence of your own
>>insincerity, I cited your declaration that BA is somehow in the same
>>"offensive arrogance" league as GW. If you came to that belief based
>>on facts, then why not spell them out? Not even gonna' try, eh? How
>>does that make you any different from those "noisy dissidents
>>clamoring for attention or trolling on usenet"? Anyway,
>>congratulations, holding unsupportable opinions and dodging straight
>>talk qualifies you for an automatic honorary tea party membership.
>>
>>Wayne
>
>Let's review: I made a couple of observations and stated an opinion,
>no ad hominem attack toward anyone other than perhaps two presidents
>who have seemed very arrogant to me -- as did Clinton and Nixon. You
>may disagree, don't need to shit in my mailbox to express yourself.
>
>You launched a vitriolic personal diatribe at me. Perhaps vitriol and
>rhetorically creative sarcastic ridicule is what you regard as
>"straight talk", or perhaps that's merely a rhetorical device.
>
>I don't present what I think as "right" nor strive to influence, I
>merely offer my opinion. Every reader gets to decide what they think
>is right. If you need cites and research consult with Ed, he's really
>good at that.
>
>You clearly strive to influence opinion on the N.G. against Gunner and
>now me, as might an adolescent girl though you are rather more
>articulate than most adolescent girls. Good luck with that. I've
>been here a while as reader and contributor, reader opinions are
>well-formed one way or another. Whatever they might be, neither of us
>will change them with clever rhetoric anytime soon.
>
>Go bicker with TMT. He's more your speed.
>
Hear hear!

Poor Whine..all bluster..no bottom

Gunner

"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 3:58 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 05:07:59 -0400, Steve B <deserttraver@fishymail.net>
wrote:

>Path: border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!goblin1!goblin.stu.neva.ru!feeder.eternal-september.org!eternal-september.org!aioe.org!not-for-mail
>From: Steve B <deserttraver@fishymail.net>
>Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking
>Subject: Re: Who will be the first?
>Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2010 05:07:59 -0400
>Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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>Message-ID: <hoki3l$jca$1@speranza.aioe.org>
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>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5843
>Bytes: 1960
>Xref: number.nntp.dca.giganews.com rec.crafts.metalworking:1151020
>
>On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 20:56:13 -0700, Steve B wrote:
>
>>
>> "Steve B" <deserttraver@fishymail.net> wrote in message
>> news:hoijn3$62d$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 06:56:32 -0700, Steve B wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll meet you at the corner of Pecos and Tropicana at 1 PM. I have a big
>>>> red Dodge Ram 2500 pickup. See you then.
>>>>
>>>> Steve
>>>
>>> Panhandling?
>>
>> I was there today. Where were you, you cowardly piece of shit?
>>
>> Steve
>
>Wait till tomorrow, I can't stop laughing long enough right now.
>I'll bet your Mom has nicknames for you that you haven't heard.

Need ammo that cant be traced, Steve?

Id be happy to donate some (to the Real Steve, not the shitbird)

Gunner

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:47 am
From: "Pete C."

Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> Metal question: Where can I find a used mini-mill, cheap? Y'know,
> the type that HF, Sieg, Griz, and Homier sell for $-500.
>
> P.S: Sorry for the on-topic subject at the end.

You find it at HF when you get a 20% off coupon and buy the mill when it
is also on sale. Just a matter of timing.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DIY Two-Stroke Engine
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/bcf5d37475198771?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 2:32 am
From: "wesley marceaux"

your too late,, Mr. Chotia made an engine for the weedhopper that is exactly
what you described..you can go to the weedhopper site and buy one for under
a hundred bucks...........try,,,,you'll be surprised
"durabol" <durabol34@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4bba8908-a834-4ce7-943b-51197b9578ee@g28g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
> For the last few years I have toyed with the idea of building a
> homemade two-stroke engine for UL use. What keyed my interest was
> reading about homemade model aircraft engines and reading and watching
> a re-enactment of the Wright brother's first flight with a replica
> engine (not a two-stroke engine).
>
> Has anyone made a 2-stroke engine from scratch? One may need to cast
> aluminium, may need a lathe and milling machine with boring head and
> hone or perhaps the boring and honing of the cylinder and bearing
> journals could be farmed out. A commercial carburetor and piston could
> be used. Two-stroke engines seem simple enough that home construction
> may be possible, if not practical.
>
> A direct drive engine will be that much heavier when you take into
> account the weight of the drive reduction system. I have calculated
> the weight of an 80x80mm bore and stroke 2 cylinder opposed engine and
> it was a bit under 40lbs which should give about 1hp/lbs. I used 10mm
> cylinder and crankcase wall thickness and a 1.25" dia crank.
>
> I have got some idea of port-time-area from the freeware computer
> program called "BiMotion". I'm not sure how good the data is for
> lowish speed engines but I guess it is a start. I have also worked up
> a spreadsheet for similar information.
>
> I don't think a reed valve system is needed for this engine since it
> is only going to operate at a fairly narrow rpm range and the port
> timing isn't critical. Piston ported valves offer similar performance
> to other induction types but only over a narrow rpm range which is
> what I have planned for the engine. I plan to build an engine with a
> restrictive exhaust to ensure no fuel escapes. I have heard that
> piston ported engines can spit some fuel out of the carb at idle but
> this doesn't seem like a major problem. Rotary valves via crank shaft
> induction (disk or drum valves as well) is an interesting idea but I
> don't think I need the critical timing they provide.
>
> I was planning on using the largest two-stroke piston (not a diesel
> piston) I could find and using the largest stoke that was reasonable,
> something like 90x105mm
>
> Brock

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Closing aluminium tube ends
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5d4e22498f315783?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 3:09 am
From: Robin

On 26 Mar, 23:09, "dcas...@krl.org" <dcas...@krl.org> wrote:
> On Mar 26, 4:29 pm, Robin <creffi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm working on a little project (a spotlight) that is basically a bit
> > of aluminium tubing, 50mm ID, 5mm wall thickness. I was wondering the
> > best way to close the end of the tube that doesn't have the light
> > shining out. I'm hoping to make it water resistant
>
> > Any other ideas? I'll be using my Myford Super 7 and indexable tools
>
> d. Turn a plug 50 mm with o-ring piston seal groove. Use o-ring for
> seal . Drill thru tube into plug and use roll pin, screw, epoxy,
> whatever to keep plug in tube.
>
> Dan

If I end up turning a plug, is it better to trepan a 50mm circle from
a piece of flat bar, or part off a wedge of 50mm round bar? The reason
I don't want to buy one is that I have been unable to find something
exactly what I want. It's basically a modified X-Lite (http://www.x-
eng.co.uk/X-LiteAZ.asp) but with better weatherproofing and a
different mount. Although the commercial version is only £35, I'd need
at least 4 of them for my application (ideally more) and if they're
going to get nicked, I wouldn't want to spend £140. Labour costs
aside, I can buy enough tubing to make 10 for £40 (http://
cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160326428983) and I
doubt a small piece of round bar is going to cost a fortune (in fact,
I've got some lying around here).

I like the sound of option d - that's why I asked the question! Might
use high temperature silicone instead of an O-ring, though unless
someone can point me in the direction of an O-ring supplier

Robin (England)

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:26 am
From: Andrew VK3BFA

On Mar 27, 6:29 am, Robin <creffi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> shining out. I'm hoping to make it water resistant
>

> Any other ideas? I'll be using my Myford Super 7 and indexable tools

How you going to stop it self destructing, probably fairly fast, given
the extreme temperatures its going to achieve.

Andrew VK3BFA.

PS - nice project though - congrats

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:13 am
From: "dcaster@krl.org"

On Mar 27, 6:09 am, Robin <creffi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> If I end up turning a plug, is it better to trepan a 50mm circle from
> a piece of flat bar, or part off a wedge of 50mm round bar?
>
> I like the sound of option d - that's why I asked the question! Might
> use high temperature silicone instead of an O-ring, though unless
> someone can point me in the direction of an O-ring supplier
>
> Robin (England)

The silicone caulk would probably work well. If you use it smear some
on both parts before pushing the plug in.

I have made larger aluminum disks by cutting a slightly larger blank
using a sabre saw , hacksaw, whatever. Then using something kind of
like a live center, but with a fairly large flat end. Put on your
face plate with some plywood fastened to it and then put some rubber
( old intertube ) next to the faceplate, the aluminum oversize disk,
and use the " live center " to apply force to hold the plate against
the rubber. The live center was made from a front wheel bearing from
a car and some steel bar. The wheel bearing provides the flat
surface. Obviously light cuts, but you should not have to take off a
lot if you don't make the blank too much oversize.
If you make the plugs from flat stock, you could make them with a
shoulder so they would seat evenly and use thinner stock.

You might try finding some aluminum at a industrial recycling center.

Dan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Am I a fool to buy this mill/drill?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/a1b543030985642c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:00 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 27, 1:39 am, Larry Jaques <ljaq...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:09:05 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins
> ...
>
> Jim, the shadow of the tin roof on the side of the log is downright
> eerie. I was trying to figure out why the bark looked wavy like that.
> Har!

This shows that roof from the opposite direction after I put a shed
over the log pile:
http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/Firewood#5287788504883032706
The shadow isn't straight because these sheds are framed with tree
trunks that will be planks or firewood themselves some day. Building
them was good practice in case I ever take another maintenance job at
a Renaissance Festival.

jsw

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 7:15 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 05:00:49 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins
<kb1dal@gmail.com> scrawled the following:

>On Mar 27, 1:39 am, Larry Jaques <ljaq...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 15:09:05 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins
>> ...
>>
>> Jim, the shadow of the tin roof on the side of the log is downright
>> eerie. I was trying to figure out why the bark looked wavy like that.
>> Har!
>
>This shows that roof from the opposite direction after I put a shed
>over the log pile:
>http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/Firewood#5287788504883032706

Hey, looks like a logging trailer made from an old boat trailer. ;)

>The shadow isn't straight because these sheds are framed with tree
>trunks that will be planks or firewood themselves some day. Building

It was the corrugated shadow that I was talking about. You can't see
the crossection of that in the pic you just showed me.

>them was good practice in case I ever take another maintenance job at
>a Renaissance Festival.

Cool.

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-

==============================================================================
TOPIC: fun with your tractor
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8b925e9e3238029e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:05 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 26, 8:20 pm, Larry Jaques <ljaq...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
> ...
>
> Speaking of quality, did you guys see who was in the studio? It was
> the Spice Girls! Posh and Baby Spice on either side of the host.
> Yummy!
>
> --
> Challenges are gifts that force us to search for a new center of gravity.
> Don't fight them. Just find a different way to stand.
> -- Oprah Winfrey

TV has rotted your brain, you need a hobby. Ever consider metalworking?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 7:18 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:54:24 -0700, the infamous Winston
<Winston@bigbrother.net> scrawled the following:

>On 3/26/2010 6:43 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
>
>> Aren't you even a little bit embarrassed to be able to identify the
>> Spice Girls?
>
>Larry is *hopeless* naming the guys in the boy bands.
>I swear, can't do a thing with him.

Ayup. Hey, why haven't you plonked that wanker yet?

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Western snow plow with all hydraulics and controller
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f415f0567c066041?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:19 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 26, 9:37 pm, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> ...
> I had more than my fill of daytime TV, when working in a TV shop in
> my teens. :(
> ...
> Michael A. Terrell

Agreed, I turn the TV on a few minutes before the news in case some
new singer is performing. They have an extremely low opinion of the
intelligence and maturity of their audience.

jsw

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PICTURES of my wire brushing and polishing setup
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2bd20b7802ede923?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 6:24 am
From: Joseph Gwinn

In article <b-ydnaQRJ6XJFjDWnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@giganews.com>,
Ignoramus8345 <ignoramus8345@NOSPAM.8345.invalid> wrote:

> Some pictures of my cleaning setup.
>
> http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Cleaning-And-Polishing/
>
> I can clean and polish most things, like the ones pictured, in one
> minute or so.
>
> The pictures show two items, a Morse 2 shank to Morse 3 hole extender,
> and a Morse 5 shell mill holder.

How much metal is removed in the process?

Joe Gwinn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anyone is going to IMTS show in Chicago, Sep 13-18, 2010?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1193df4b9bd9cfff?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 6:29 am
From: "David R.Birch"

Ignoramus8345 wrote:
> ``You'll find that the International Manufacturing Technology Show
> (IMTS) is the place to see the latest in manufacturing technology,
> network with business colleagues, and find solutions to your current
> and future needs.''
>
> http://www.imts.com/
>
> If we can put together a group of five, we can get a discount on
> tickets. My friend went there last year and he had a blast.
>
> Sep 13-18, 2010.
>
> i

I usually go. If your friend went last year, he was probably lonely,
as the show is every other year.

David

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hardwood Flooring
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/68660c4f6d11e53c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 7:40 am
From: notme@privacy.net (dan)

What's that Lassie? You say that Larry Jaques fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:34:01 -0700:

>On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:13:10 GMT, the infamous notme@privacy.net (dan)
>scrawled the following:
>
>>What's that Lassie? You say that Pete C. fell down the old
>>rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
>>by Fri, 26 Mar 2010 14:05:54 -0500:
>>
>>>Other stuff such as bamboo flooring is also worth a look, it is
>>>engineered, but available as full dimensional like traditional hardwood.
>>
>>Bamboo is not as hard as oak and will get marked up in short order.
>>Friend of mine has it (wife wanted it for the green angle) and regrets
>>it.
>
>Hmm, it shows up as about 25% harder, 1762 vs 1260.
>http://www.bamboo-flooring-facts.com/bamboo_flooring_janka_hardness.htm

I don't know what to tell you. Just that the bamboo floor in my
friends house looks like crap after two years, and the oak floor that
he put in his prior house looked great after 10+years. Perhaps he got
low quality flooring?
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: If George Bush........
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/ee503716cb3ad0d5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 8:10 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

Buerste wrote:
> "Hawke" <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
> news:hoj3hn$6t8$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> <snip>
>> Now we don't. We want the same thing as to creating favorable
>> conditions for businesses to be successful. Without them the people
>> are not going to have a high level of wealth. No good businesses,
>> only poor people. So we do want that. But we also know the
>> government is supposed to do what the people want. That requires
>> taking a certain amount of money in taxes. If you have to get money
>> for taxes it only makes sense to go to those who have it. In the
>> last decade the wealth of the country has become way too
>> concentrated in too few hands. That means we have to take a lot more
>> from those lucky few. If we had an egalitarian society where
>> everyone had equal wealth we could go to everyone for the money. But
>> when all the money is held by the few then they are going to have to
>> pay for everything, but they have it so why not. So you choose. You
>> can have an unequal society where a few own everything and thus pay
>> all the taxes, or you can have a more economically equal society
>> where all the people pay the taxes. Right now most wealth is held by
>> a small number. So they have to pay. To which I say, if you don't
>> like it you can move to another country.
>>
>> Hawke
>
> At least you are honest in your socialism. Socialist/Marxist
> Liberals have created the situation where a portion of the population
> is uneducated, skill-less, jobless and a drain on society...but they
> VOTE! THAT'S how liberals self-perpetuate. And, you guys keep those
> people in that position. You've gotten that population high enough to
> ensure power for liberals so they can extract MORE wealth from those
> that produce it and redistribute it to the voting leeches. But, what
> happens when you drain all the wealth than can be created by those
> that create it? Robbing Peter to pay Paul works well if you're
> Paul...until you bankrupt Peter.
>
>
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/26/cbos-2020-vision-debt-will-rise-to-90-of-gdp/
> President Obama's fiscal 2011 budget will generate nearly $10
> trillion in cumulative budget deficits over the next 10 years, $1.2
> trillion more than the administration projected, and raise the
> federal debt to 90 percent of the nation's economic output by 2020,
> the Congressional Budget Office reported Thursday

Total US taxes, the total tax divided by the number of citizens, has ranged
between the lowest and third-lowest among developed countries (the OECD
countries) in recent years. Our corporate tax, which was the lowest among
that group until not many years ago, is now nominally one of the highest
because those other countries have been in a race to keep companies from
leaving their countries and moving elsewhere -- like big pharma did when
much of it moved to the US. But in practice, because of all of the
complexities in our tax code, our corporations pay less tax than those in
any other developed country. Our real average corporate tax is around 19% of
their profits.

The total tax burden is another issue, but one thing is absolutely clear
from the numbers: The US is not at a competitive disadvantage because of our
total tax rates. And corporations are paying much less in fact, even though
our *nominal* rates are higher, than their competitors in other developed
countries.

The big "tax" disadvantage our larger corporations suffer from is paying
healthcare and pensions, much of which are picked up by the state in other
countries. That's why they have higher *overall* tax rates, in terms of
total taxes per individual. Corporations get off that hook in many other
countries. The taxes are still there, but they're shifted off the
corporations' backs and onto individual citizens.

There are other, smaller examples that explain why taxes are so high in
other countries, even while we yell about taxes here. Our system is skewed
in some ways that hurt performance (like our health care system) while
turning the screws in some places but not in others. But flat taxes and VATs
don't, in themselves, help to straighten out the matters of performance of
social institutions or corporate competitiveness. If you flattened out the
taxes without introducing a universal health care system, you'd just put the
squeeze on the middle class, particularly the lower-middle. And VATs are
steeply regressive. European countries use a very steeply progressive income
tax -- the opposite of a flat income tax -- to compensate. You *would*
succeed in depressing consumption with a VAT in the US, but then you'd be
forced, like Germany and Japan, to depend excessively on a mercantilist
(export-based) economy. You can see where it's gotten them: in a downturn,
they're sucking wind from all directions. Not only do they feel the
recession more sharply than we do, but they can't do a damned thing about it
until the economies of their trading partners pick up.

All in all, it wouldn't be healthy for us to have a flat tax and/or a VAT.
We be in a real race to the bottom against China, SE Asia, and a few others.
Our economy really does rely on high rates of domestic consumption, and,
most of the time, it leaves us in a stronger position overall. That's why
our Treasury bills still sell to foreigners. They've lost some of their
glitter lately but you would expect, all else being equal, that they would
have completely tanked.

All else isn't equal because we can recover from a recession better than
most. And our tax system is part of the reason. Tinker with it at your
peril.

--
John R. Carroll

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 7:20 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:B5mdna0Ao5ynjzPWnZ2dnUVZ_qOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Buerste wrote:
>> "Hawke" <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
>> news:hoj3hn$6t8$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>> <snip>
>>> Now we don't. We want the same thing as to creating favorable
>>> conditions for businesses to be successful. Without them the people
>>> are not going to have a high level of wealth. No good businesses,
>>> only poor people. So we do want that. But we also know the
>>> government is supposed to do what the people want. That requires
>>> taking a certain amount of money in taxes. If you have to get money
>>> for taxes it only makes sense to go to those who have it. In the
>>> last decade the wealth of the country has become way too
>>> concentrated in too few hands. That means we have to take a lot more
>>> from those lucky few. If we had an egalitarian society where
>>> everyone had equal wealth we could go to everyone for the money. But
>>> when all the money is held by the few then they are going to have to
>>> pay for everything, but they have it so why not. So you choose. You
>>> can have an unequal society where a few own everything and thus pay
>>> all the taxes, or you can have a more economically equal society
>>> where all the people pay the taxes. Right now most wealth is held by
>>> a small number. So they have to pay. To which I say, if you don't
>>> like it you can move to another country.
>>>
>>> Hawke
>>
>> At least you are honest in your socialism. Socialist/Marxist
>> Liberals have created the situation where a portion of the population
>> is uneducated, skill-less, jobless and a drain on society...but they
>> VOTE! THAT'S how liberals self-perpetuate. And, you guys keep those
>> people in that position. You've gotten that population high enough to
>> ensure power for liberals so they can extract MORE wealth from those
>> that produce it and redistribute it to the voting leeches. But, what
>> happens when you drain all the wealth than can be created by those
>> that create it? Robbing Peter to pay Paul works well if you're
>> Paul...until you bankrupt Peter.
>>
>>
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/26/cbos-2020-vision-debt-will-rise-to-90-of-gdp/
>> President Obama's fiscal 2011 budget will generate nearly $10
>> trillion in cumulative budget deficits over the next 10 years, $1.2
>> trillion more than the administration projected, and raise the
>> federal debt to 90 percent of the nation's economic output by 2020,
>> the Congressional Budget Office reported Thursday
>
> Total US taxes, the total tax divided by the number of citizens, has
> ranged
> between the lowest and third-lowest among developed countries (the OECD
> countries) in recent years. Our corporate tax, which was the lowest among
> that group until not many years ago, is now nominally one of the highest
> because those other countries have been in a race to keep companies from
> leaving their countries and moving elsewhere -- like big pharma did when
> much of it moved to the US. But in practice, because of all of the
> complexities in our tax code, our corporations pay less tax than those in
> any other developed country. Our real average corporate tax is around 19%
> of
> their profits.
>
> The total tax burden is another issue, but one thing is absolutely clear
> from the numbers: The US is not at a competitive disadvantage because of
> our
> total tax rates. And corporations are paying much less in fact, even
> though
> our *nominal* rates are higher, than their competitors in other developed
> countries.
>
> The big "tax" disadvantage our larger corporations suffer from is paying
> healthcare and pensions, much of which are picked up by the state in other
> countries. That's why they have higher *overall* tax rates, in terms of
> total taxes per individual. Corporations get off that hook in many other
> countries. The taxes are still there, but they're shifted off the
> corporations' backs and onto individual citizens.
>
> There are other, smaller examples that explain why taxes are so high in
> other countries, even while we yell about taxes here. Our system is skewed
> in some ways that hurt performance (like our health care system) while
> turning the screws in some places but not in others. But flat taxes and
> VATs
> don't, in themselves, help to straighten out the matters of performance of
> social institutions or corporate competitiveness. If you flattened out the
> taxes without introducing a universal health care system, you'd just put
> the
> squeeze on the middle class, particularly the lower-middle. And VATs are
> steeply regressive. European countries use a very steeply progressive
> income
> tax -- the opposite of a flat income tax -- to compensate. You *would*
> succeed in depressing consumption with a VAT in the US, but then you'd be
> forced, like Germany and Japan, to depend excessively on a mercantilist
> (export-based) economy. You can see where it's gotten them: in a downturn,
> they're sucking wind from all directions. Not only do they feel the
> recession more sharply than we do, but they can't do a damned thing about
> it
> until the economies of their trading partners pick up.
>
> All in all, it wouldn't be healthy for us to have a flat tax and/or a VAT.
> We be in a real race to the bottom against China, SE Asia, and a few
> others.
> Our economy really does rely on high rates of domestic consumption, and,
> most of the time, it leaves us in a stronger position overall. That's why
> our Treasury bills still sell to foreigners. They've lost some of their
> glitter lately but you would expect, all else being equal, that they would
> have completely tanked.
>
> All else isn't equal because we can recover from a recession better than
> most. And our tax system is part of the reason. Tinker with it at your
> peril.
>
>
>
> --
> John R. Carroll

Is there an echo in here? d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

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Saturday, March 27, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

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