twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 11 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

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Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Who will be the first?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f434d5963fd21822?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 12:01 am
From: Don Foreman

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:13:25 -0700, wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:

>>
>>>
>>> There's nothing patriotic about anarchy. There is also nothing
>>> patriotic about acceptance of greed and corruption in our congress and
>>> offensive arrogance exhibited by our elected president.
>
>Your point would be more meaningful if not for the fact that you get
>offended, or at least pretend to be offended, by things like missing
>uppercase.

You may have me confused with someone else. I don't recall declaring
offense by missing upper case. I've no problem with the writings of
poet e.e. cummings who sometimes eschewed use of uppercase letters.

In any case, upper or lower, do you disagree with my assertions? Do
you support anarchy, greed and corruption in our congress and
presidential arrogance?

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 12:14 am
From: Don Foreman

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 22:47:06 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Which country do you live in?
>
>I'm in the USA, which is (or used to be) a constitutional
>republic.

Our constitution protects free speech which includes challenge to
government. That's the law of the land whether you like it or not.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 4:12 am
From: John

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 10:52:26 -0500, Ignoramus30639
<ignoramus30639@NOSPAM.30639.invalid> wrote:

>On 2010-03-25, John <johnbslocomb@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 21:29:39 -0500, Ignoramus16885
>><ignoramus16885@NOSPAM.16885.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2010-03-25, John <johnbslocomb@invalid.com> wrote:
>>>> Errr... and who were they? Certainly Hitler, and his party were
>>>> elected with sufficient votes to be the largest party in the coalition
>>>> government, he kick started the economy, created jobs through
>>>> government spending, re-structured the military, recovered German
>>>> territory that had been taken away after WW I, and pulled the country
>>>> out of a depression that was far worse then the recent financial
>>>> debacle in the U.S. (In fact rather similar to some claims made for
>>>> O'Bama).
>>>
>>>I am not very well read on the German economy prior to WWII.
>>>
>>>I believe that there were a few factors that helped Germany achieve full
>>>employment and improve economy. One was renouncing reparations
>>>payments. Another was increased military production. One more was
>>>recovery of the world economy.
>>
>> Certainly, but did the average German care a whit about anything but
>> he could get a job and his money was worth something a week after he
>> got his pay.
>
>Maybe the average German did not care, but I do.
>

But, does Obama care that you care?

John B.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Would you buy a new Toyota?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/92b2cda20b50e86b?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 12:35 am
From: Ted Frater

Curly Surmudgeon wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:26:17 -0400, clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 18:07:11 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ted Frater <ted.frater@virgin.net> writes:
>>>
>>>> Concerend Citizen wrote:
>>>>> On Mar 21, 10:57 pm, "Chief Egalitarian" <Egal@legal_egal.law> wrote:
>>>>>> Serious question. I could probably get a sweet deal. My local Honda
>>>>>> dealer says people are trading them in faster than they can handle
>>>>>> even 2010's.
>>>>> No. Too expensive.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd buy a used one.
>>>> To answer the headline question,
>>>> no,
>>>> why,?
>>>> you cannot have the smallest chance of a glitch that makes the car go
>>>> when you want it to stop.
>>>> Its called primary structure.
>>>> Just because it can be done by computer doesnt mean it should be,
>>>> when simpler and 100% fail safe solutions are and have been available.
>>>> Id go so far to say I would not have one even if it was given to me
>>>> for free.
>>>> In the aviation world fly by wire is at the minimum duplicated. On the
>>>> Peugeot 305 1984, which I did 250,000 miles, over 25 yrs before
>>>> retiring it due to body rot, the throttle pedal had its own return
>>>> spring, the bosch injection pump als has its own return spring, the 2
>>>> connected together with a simple stainless bowden cable inside a
>>>> teflon sleeved cover.
>>>> Never ever wore out , and you could always see it .
>>> But, if you can believe Toyota's explanation, the accelerator problems
>>> are mechanical -- getting stuck under floor mats, and a bearing getting
>>> stuck. I'm not sure that I believe Toyota, but I do have memories of
>>> riding in an old Chevy on the freeway while the driver was reaching down
>>> to pull the gas pedal off the floor. So your old Peugeot may not have
>>> had a mechanical throttle failure, but it did happen.
>>>
>>>> No ,toyota has to pay the price of trying to be too clever and
>>>> letting the eye off the ball.
>>>> Ted.
>>>>
>>>>
>> I rember the mechanical injection Peugeot. Pretty well had to retune it
>> every time the weather changed if you wanted either best efficiency OR
>> pest power. (at least on the 404)
>
> The 404 had injection? My 504, 1981, has carburation. And fouls #4 plug
> regularly. But it pulls the trailer around the finca with a granny first
> gear with ease.
>

My first Peugeot in 1967 was a 1600 cc petrol.
Then a couple of yrs later traded it for a 404 diesel.
Then ive had diesels since then.
My dad bought a 305 sedan new( we call them saloons here in the UK) in
1984 , I inherited it 4 yrs later with 19,000 miles and ran it till
2009, taking it to 250,000 miles. engine still good, but it got used to
haul wood, and allsorts till the body work got so bad I changed it for a
Suzuki Vitara. That is also now 20 yrs old and as goood as new. Due
to the very high fuel prices here, Ive just gone back to a diesel Vitara
with the 2ltr turbo intercooled Mazda engine. We will be running that on
biodiesel,
Plan to make it ourselves.

We live miles out in the sticks so to do anything or go anywhere we have
to have wheels.
Ted
In Dorset UK.

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TOPIC: Western snow plow with all hydraulics and controller
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f415f0567c066041?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 12:35 am
From: pyotr filipivich

Let the Record show that Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> on or
about Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:10:01 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:47:06 -0500, Ignoramus30639
><ignoramus30639@NOSPAM.30639.invalid> wrote:
>
>>pictures
>>
>>http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Western-Snow-Plow/
>
>
>You did really good Iggy.
>
>Gunner, who has seen snow up close...5 times in the last 40 yrs

So, for you, snow is like a nice fluffy white long hair angora
cat. Real nice to look at in someone else's driveway?
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 1:00 am
From: "Karl Townsend"

"Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net> wrote in message
news:4bac0a66$0$29691$ec3e2dad@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
>
> Ignoramus30639 wrote:
>>
>> On 2010-03-26, Karl Townsend <karltownsend.NOT@embarqmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > "Ignoramus30639" <ignoramus30639@NOSPAM.30639.invalid> wrote in message
>> > news:VeSdnfb5sMdxYTbWnZ2dnUVZ_sGdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> >> On 2010-03-25, Pete C. <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Ignoramus30639 wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Would you say it is worth $220? if it works?
>> >>>
>> >>> It's 1/10 of the new cost for the cheapest ones.
>> >>
>> >> OK, I just brought it home. I will try to adapt it to my Chevy for the
>> >> next winter. I may have to tinker with the control a little bit. I
>> >> have very little clue how snowplows work. I may need to do some
>> >> welding to adapt it to my truck.
>> >>
>> >> i
>> >
>> > What's the number for the Cook county sheriff? I need to report a
>> > robbery.
>>
>> DuPage county
>>
>> > I've used a snow plow like this quite bit in the past. They are REAL
>> > HARD
>> > on your pickup. So much so, that I sold the plow and bought a snow
>> > blower.
>> > I went through two auto trannies and had to have the frame mounting
>> > re-welded. But I did make a fair amount of cash doing parking lots.
>>
>> What kind of pickup did you have?
>>
>> Could it be that you simply were too hard on your truck? Like, you
>> tried to push continuously?
>>
>> i
>
> Pushing continuously is the easy part, the hard part is all the slamming
> back and forth between forward and reverse gears and never getting
> enough speed to lock the torque converter. Heat is the enemy of an
> automatic transmission and that type of activity heats them up big time.
> There also isn't enough airflow at those low speeds for the normal
> transmission coolers to work properly.

Pete nailed it. You're trying to use a truck as a tractor and its just not
built for it. It does help to not get in a hurry and go easy on it. Just be
forewarned, you're gonna kill your truck.

Karl

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 5:31 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 00:35:36 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Let the Record show that Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> on or
>about Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:10:01 -0700 did write/type or cause to
>appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:47:06 -0500, Ignoramus30639
>><ignoramus30639@NOSPAM.30639.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>pictures
>>>
>>>http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Western-Snow-Plow/
>>
>>
>>You did really good Iggy.
>>
>>Gunner, who has seen snow up close...5 times in the last 40 yrs
>
> So, for you, snow is like a nice fluffy white long hair angora
>cat. Real nice to look at in someone else's driveway?

Ayup. I lost most of my love for snow, after growing up in, then
leaving Northern Michigan, where the average snow fall is 124" a year.

12 Feet of snow, 6 months out of the year..was a bit much. Now I live
in the high desert. I see snow on the tops of the mountains all around
me.

I think we had an 1/8" on the ground 4 yrs ago. Then it melted about an
hour later.

Gunner

>-
>pyotr filipivich
>We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
>It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rush to flee US
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/589453ba81b739ca?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 2:40 am
From: Wes

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:

>I was just following up on something I'd heard or read about Beck's effect
>on Fox.
>Have a look at the link I posted.
>Fox overtook CNN in ad revenue in 2008 (566 million/556 million) but I think
>it's flipped over again.

How would CNN make more than Fox? Have you seen the ratings lately?
2+ Total Day
FNC – 1,391,000 viewers
CNN – 457,000 viewers
MSNBC – 494,000 viewers
CNBC – 194,000 viewers
HLN – 345,000 viewers

P2+ Prime Time
FNC – 2,829,000 viewers
CNN – 660,000 viewers
MSNBC –1,236,000 viewers
CNBC – 200,000 viewers
HLN –686,000 viewers

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/03/25/cable-news-ratings-for-wednesday-march-24-2010/46114#more-46114

Wes

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 5:53 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

"Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:hohrsn$85m$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>
>>I was just following up on something I'd heard or read about Beck's effect
>>on Fox.
>>Have a look at the link I posted.
>>Fox overtook CNN in ad revenue in 2008 (566 million/556 million) but I
>>think
>>it's flipped over again.
>
> How would CNN make more than Fox? Have you seen the ratings lately?
> 2+ Total Day
> FNC - 1,391,000 viewers
> CNN - 457,000 viewers
> MSNBC - 494,000 viewers
> CNBC - 194,000 viewers
> HLN - 345,000 viewers
>
> P2+ Prime Time
> FNC - 2,829,000 viewers
> CNN - 660,000 viewers
> MSNBC -1,236,000 viewers
> CNBC - 200,000 viewers
> HLN -686,000 viewers
>
> http://tvbythenumbers.com/2010/03/25/cable-news-ratings-for-wednesday-march-24-2010/46114#more-46114
>

They get a lot more for their air time Wes.
When you lose the "Bigs" you end up bottom feeding. That, really, was what
happened to Stern. He ended up selling advertising to tuxedo shops and strip
clubs and they just don't have a lot to spend.
That, and CNN had three time the viewers Fox did over the HC vote weekend.
That was what the report I saw said anyway.
I'll go and peruse your link and check it out.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 5:55 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"William Wixon" <wwixon@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:QmUqn.301421$OX4.78213@newsfe25.iad...
>
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4bac07b0$0$22541$607ed4bc@cv.net...
>>
>> "Gunner Asch" <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:v1unq5pr7dr7571b34eqohtm7sktq77n0o@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:20:47 -0500, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hawke <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I was going to say he can't go to Africa. They have too many blacks
>>>>>there for him.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bo Snerdly, obviously not his real name, is the call screener. He is
>>>>Black. A Black
>>>>Conservative.
>>>>
>>>>Rush is color blind, every color under the sun is fine with him as long
>>>>as that person has
>>>>a Conservative perspective.
>>>>
>>>>From your comment, I get the impression that you, Hawke, are the racist.
>>>>
>>>>Wes
>>>
>>>
>>> Indeed. I agree with Wes 100%
>>
>> Right. Playing "Barack the Magic Negro" as a theme song isn't racist at
>> all. Nossirree.
>>
>> Among the Limberbutt classics is "The NAACP should have riot rehearsal.
>> They should get a liquor store and practice robberies."
>>
>> And my all-time favorite, to a female caller who sounded
>> African-American, "Take that bone out of your nose and call me back."
>>
>> Not a racist bone in that drug-addict's body. Nope...'in the market for a
>> bridge, by any chance?
>>
>> --
>> Ed Huntress
>>
>>
>
> for a moment i was remembering incorrectly the incident where the
> republican talk show comedian went to a restaurant in harlem and commented
> "they're just like us" was limbag, was o'reilly.
>
> http://mediamatters.org/research/200709210007
>
> b.w.

Yeah. He was amazed that we appear to be of the same species, after all.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DIY surge protection...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fa560b93f2504a9b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 1:55 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

westom wrote:
>
> On Mar 25, 1:43 pm, "Twayne" <nob...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> > Earth ground is NOT the most critical protection object. It
> > isn't even necessary for protection from longitudinal surges,
> > in fact. This is a mess of guesses with an attempt to
> > hopefully sound like you know what you're
> > talking about, but you don't.
>
> So why do all telcos require their protectors connected from each
> wire to earth? Why does every telco bring every wire into underground
> vaults where a protector connects within feet to earth - for
> longitudinal mode transients? And why has this been the routine
> solution for over 100 years?

Why is so much of the Teleco plant fiber optic, that requires no
electrical protection?

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: A simple fix for health care.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/71a212adc13a7894?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 3:00 am
From: Wes

Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote:

>And I still have to pay taxes on my health insurance premiums, unless I
>go to work for da man!!!

Fixing that would have made a lot of sense. Of course that would be in conflict with the
true goal of single payer (only one choice, the government).

Wes

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 2:02 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Ignoramus30639 wrote:
>
> On 2010-03-25, RogerN <regor@midwest.net> wrote:
> > Until November, it is not clear if it is constitutional for congress
> > to pass a bill forcing people to buy from private companies against
> > their will. And the individual mandate has never been done before.
>
> There is already a law requiring us to buy insurance form private
> companies.
>
> It is called car insurance.
>
> Apparently, it is considered constitutional.
>
> Many professions are required to maintain liability insurance, as well.

Those are state laws, and are in fact not in violation of the US
constitution.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 2:04 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:50:25 -0500, Ignoramus30639
> <ignoramus30639@NOSPAM.30639.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On 2010-03-25, RogerN <regor@midwest.net> wrote:
> >> Until November, it is not clear if it is constitutional for congress
> >> to pass a bill forcing people to buy from private companies against
> >> their will. And the individual mandate has never been done before.
> >
> >There is already a law requiring us to buy insurance form private
> >companies.
> >
> >It is called car insurance.
> >
> >Apparently, it is considered constitutional.
> >
> >Many professions are required to maintain liability insurance, as well.
> >
> >i
>
> But its not the same thing. Car insurance is for those who drive
> vehicles on public roadways. If you dont drive on public
> roadways..insurance is not required.
>
> Same with "many professions"
>
> Making EVERY American buy insurance is going to put 30 million people
> out on the street.
>
> I made $18,000 last year, gross. Making me pay $15,000 for insurance
> out of that $18k...will have me living in a cardboard box.
>
> Thats not a solution, but a death sentence

Try it on a $11,820 fixed income when you aren't allowed to work. :(

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 2:05 am
From: "Michael A. Terrell"

Roger Shoaf wrote:
>
> "Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:hogq0b$an8$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> > One of the things I would like seeing is for non emergency care, an up
> front price for a
> > proceedure. How about submitting the proposed bill first and let me
> decide after I know
> > what it is going to cost me if I want to have it?
> >
> >
> > Wes
>
> I like sort of a different approach. Assuming that the congress perceives
> that our health care system is way too expensive and should be more
> reasonably priced perhaps a system of medical schools could be built and
> funded where the best and the brightest could then be educated tuition free
> to those who qualify.
>
> The docs graduate debt free, but the catch would be 10 years service in
> public hospitals and clinics as assigned. The funds we currently pay for
> Medicaid, Medicare etc would then be paid into these teaching
> hospital/clinic systems as well as offering care to those that are on a
> limited budget.
>
> This system would exist parallel to the current system and in fact compete
> with it. By increasing the supply of doctors and other medical
> professionals (nurses, x-ray techs etc.) this would drive the prices down
> and the level of service up.
>
> The last time I was stuck in the hospital I had gashed open my scalp and
> spent about a half an hour in the O/R and spent overnight in the hospital.
>
> Somehow the bill came to around 10 grand. I looked at the bill and noticed
> things like 2 plastic urinals at $20 a piece, $120 for a pair of rubber
> stockings.
>
> I figure things a bit different from a value based system.
>
> A night in a first class hotel with 3 meals $300
> 2 doctors for 2 hours each @ $300 per hour $1,200
> 3 nurses 3 shifts @ $300 per shift $900
> misc. supplies $400.
>
> That comes to $2,800 if there is no economy of scale as there would be if
> nurses could care for more than one patient at a time or the doctors time
> could be billed differently.
>
> Alternatively, I probably could have gone home after I came to and not taken
> up a bed for "observation". If that was the case, the cost could have been
> less than half that.
>
> My daughter had a softball pop out of her mitt and gave her a shiner and
> split open a gash about 3/8" above her eye. My ex took her to the emergency
> room and our share of the bill was $700 after insurance. The treatment
> consisted of an ice pack and a little super glue to close the wound and a
> band-aid.
>
> I am convinced that there is vast room for cost reductions in medical care.

They could adopt the VA model.

--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 5:32 am
From: John

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 19:02:06 -0500, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:

>One of the things I would like seeing is for non emergency care, an up front price for a
>proceedure. How about submitting the proposed bill first and let me decide after I know
>what it is going to cost me if I want to have it?
>
>
>Wes

The larger hospitals in Thailand, the ones that cater to foreigners at
least, all do exactly that. Before you have any procedure you are
presented with a form that lists the maximum cost which you are
required to sign that you agree and return.

John B.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Am I a fool to buy this mill/drill?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/a1b543030985642c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 4:01 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 26, 12:09 am, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo <t...@hamartun.priv.no> wrote:
> Jim Wilkins <kb1...@gmail.com> writes:
> > With metric dials and lead screws, I hope.
>
> Thanks - I should check that. It'd be somewhat confusing to have this
> be different between my lathe and mill, I think. :)
> -tih

I can work comfortably in either system as long as the graduations on
the machine are the same as the dimensions on the drawing. There are
too many things that demand close attention when machining to rely on
mental math.

Do you see any products made to inch dimensions in Norge?

jsw

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 4:31 am
From: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo

Jim Wilkins <kb1dal@gmail.com> writes:

> I can work comfortably in either system as long as the graduations on
> the machine are the same as the dimensions on the drawing. There are
> too many things that demand close attention when machining to rely on
> mental math.
>
> Do you see any products made to inch dimensions in Norge?

None at all. Not for a long time, now. We still speak of lumber in
inch dimensions, even though it's no longer actually cut like that (a
two-by-four is thinner here than in the US, but we still call it a
two-by-four in everyday parlance) -- but that's the only use I can think
of. Oh, one more: yardsticks are called "inch sticks" here, even though
they're now marked in metric units. :)

The mini-lathe I bought has a nice solution on the handwheel scales on
the cross- and topslide: since it's built for the European market, it
has metric lead screws throughout, and the slides advance 1 mm per
revolution of the handwheels. However, the scales are marked with 40
divisions. So, four units is a tenth of a millimeter, and each mark is
"a quarter of a tenth", or 0.025. Not too difficult, but why not 50
divisions? Because 1/40 mm is very close to 1/1000", and that's the
unit you see all over the literature, on the net, and so on. Smart!

-tih
--
Self documenting code isn't. User application constraints don't. --Ed Prochak

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 4:58 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 26, 7:31 am, Tom Ivar Helbekkmo <t...@hamartun.priv.no> wrote:
> Jim Wilkins <kb1...@gmail.com> writes:
> > ...
> > Do you see any products made to inch dimensions in Norge?
>
> None at all. Not for a long time, now. We still speak of lumber in
> inch dimensions, even though it's no longer actually cut like that (a
> two-by-four is thinner here than in the US, but we still call it a
> two-by-four in everyday parlance) -- but that's the only use I can think
> of. Oh, one more: yardsticks are called "inch sticks" here, even though
> they're now marked in metric units. :)

A "two-by-four" here is within carpenter's tolerance of 40 x 90mm, and
"inch" planks are 19 - 20mm thick.

jsw

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TOPIC: If George Bush........
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/ee503716cb3ad0d5?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 4:38 am
From: John

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 06:50:55 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
<rangerssuck@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mar 24, 11:37 pm, John <johnbsloc...@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 12:55:33 -0700, Hawke
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>> >On 3/24/2010 7:27 AM, John wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 23 Mar 2010 20:45:02 -0700, Hawke
>> >> <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>>
>> >>> On 3/23/2010 12:38 PM, Buerste wrote:
>> >>>> "sittingduck"<d...@spamherelots.com> wrote in message
>> >>>>news:Xns9D437977C3BA2duckrulestheuniverse@nomail.afraid.org...
>> >>>>> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>> Give it a rest Gummer. You lost, now get over it.
>>
>> >>>>> Waterloo
>> >>>>> March 21st, 2010 at 4:59 pm by David Frum
>>
>> >>>>> Conservatives and Republicans today suffered their most crushing
>> >>>>> legislative defeat since the 1960s.
>> >>>> <snip>
>>
>> >>>> Yep, the Party of "Takers" has dealt a huge blow to the Party of
>> >>>> "Producers". Since the "Takers" far outweigh the "Producers", the voting is
>> >>>> rather predictable. However, how much can the "Takers" take from the
>> >>>> "Producers" before the well runs dry? In time, the "Takers" won't be able
>> >>>> to tax, borrow or print money and the "Producers" will be broke from paying
>> >>>> all the new taxes. On top of all of that, wealth creation in the US is
>> >>>> punished. I congratulate you! You DO get something for nothing...for a
>> >>>> little while...enjoy! That dull roar you hear is jobs fleeing the country
>> >>>> faster than ever before. Yep, CONGRATULATIONS!!!
>>
>> >>> Geez!, when are you right wing doomsayers going to wake up and smell the
>> >>> coffee? Things are starting to go right for the first time in a long
>> >>> time. The stock market is back to nearly 11,000. First quarter earnings
>> >>> data is coming out soon and the reports are that corporate profits for
>> >>> the first quarter of the year are going to be very good. Business is
>> >>> doing well. I guess you must be having another lousy quarter for your
>> >>> business. Sorry to hear that. You might soon be a "taker" yourself. But
>> >>> at least lots of other American businesses are doing very well, they are
>> >>> flush with cash, and they are ready to do a lot of new mergers. The
>> >>> economy is turning around. How is it that you so called business types
>> >>> are the last to know? No wonder you don't know how to invest. You don't
>> >>> even know which way the economy is going even when all the signs are
>> >>> right there. You guys need to wake up. The problems were created when
>> >>> republicans ran things. They are being solved now that Democrats are in
>> >>> charge. Just like always.
>>
>> >>> Hawke
>> >> Current Account (billion $)
>> >> U.S. -124.1
>> >> China 284.1
>>
>> >> But everything is roses?
>>
>> >> John B.
>>
>> >No, but why are you comparing the U.S. to China? China is the country
>> >that has done the best of all during the worldwide economic slowdown.
>> >You compare it to any other country and it makes the other look bad.
>> >That's an old salesman's trick.
>>
>> Certainly I used China - the country that is most likely to become the
>> new world economic leader. But here is the numbers for a little,
>> insignificant country, to compare.
>>
>> GDP % change Y to Y change
>> U.S. +0.1
>> Thailand +5.3
>>
>> Consumer Prices
>> U.S. +2.6
>> Thai +3.7
>>
>> Industrial Production
>> U.S. +1.8
>> Thai +28.6
>>
>> Unemployment (Rate)
>> U.S. 9.7
>> Thai 1.4
>>
>> Trade balance (B $)
>> U.S. -43..4
>> Thai +0.5
>>
>> Yield (10 year Government Bond)
>> U.S. 3.66
>> Thai 4.07
>>
>> Current Account (billion $)
>> U.S. -124.1
>> Thai +2.0
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Is the stock market up over 4000 points in the last year? Are retail
>> >sales up? Are the first quarter earnings reports coming out soon and are
>> >they going to be very good? You can compare us to the best economy in
>> >the world and make us look bad in comparison. But if you compare the
>> >economic situation right now to what it was a year ago and if you look
>> >at the economic predictions you see that the outlook is definitely
>> >improving. I'm not saying the economy is booming yet. I'm saying the
>> >indicators say it's on the way up, not down. And that we're much better
>> >off now than a year ago. All in all that's not bad. So if you hear
>> >people saying we're in the shits it's simply not true. Last year it was
>> >but not any more. It's real bad news for the republicans that things are
>> >improving. They were hoping we would still be in a bad recession in
>> >November so they could get reelected. Now it is looking more and more
>> >like 2010 is going to be a good year, which bodes poorly for the right wing.
>>
>> >Hawke
>>
>> The problem, and it does appear that many people do not realize, or
>> perhaps accept, that the U.S. essentially, through what can only be
>> termed mismanagement, has become a second class nation. With your high
>> cost of labor you have priced yourself out of the majority of the
>> world's market in the name of free trade, you engage in unpopular and
>> in several cases unwinable wars, for nebulas, or falsified reasons,
>> you can't even agree on an equitable public health scheme.
>>
>> Perhaps you aren't in "the shit" at the moment but you are on a
>> slippery slope and I see no indication that anything is going to
>> change.
>>
>> I hesitate to use Thailand as an example but it does serve to
>> illustrate some of my arguments. In 2002 the Thai parliament passed
>> the "Thirty Baht Medical Scheme" which covers all Thai citizens
>> resident in Thailand. It provides totally free medical care for all
>> children up the age of 12 years and medical treatment, for 30 baht
>> (currently equal to $0.96), for those above the age of twelve.
>>
>> This charge is on a visit by visit basis. In other words, if you have
>> a chronic illness you go to the hospital, pay your 30 baht and receive
>> a one month supply of medicine. Next month you will go back and pay an
>> additional 30 baht. Note that this is for any and all medicine and/or
>> treatment that you receive.
>>
>> But everything is roses?
>>
>> John B.
>
>Uhmmm, nice story, John. You'd think that with numbers like that we
>should all be running off to Thailand. But you left out something
>rather significant: The average gross income in Thailand is $4500 per
>year.
>http://www.worldsalaries.org/thailand.shtml

No, I don't advocate everyone running off to Thailand but it would be
nice to see a few facing reality.

In talking about average income you make a fundamental error - at
least you appear to equate a Thai's salary to living costs in the U.S.
While $375 a month undoubtedly seems like a tiny amount of money to
you there are multitudes of Thais who are quite happy to receive
11,000 baht a month.

John B.

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 4:47 am
From: John

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 11:21:02 -0700, Hawke
<davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote:

>
>> I hesitate to use Thailand as an example but it does serve to
>> illustrate some of my arguments. In 2002 the Thai parliament passed
>> the "Thirty Baht Medical Scheme" which covers all Thai citizens
>> resident in Thailand. It provides totally free medical care for all
>> children up the age of 12 years and medical treatment, for 30 baht
>> (currently equal to $0.96), for those above the age of twelve.
>>
>> This charge is on a visit by visit basis. In other words, if you have
>> a chronic illness you go to the hospital, pay your 30 baht and receive
>> a one month supply of medicine. Next month you will go back and pay an
>> additional 30 baht. Note that this is for any and all medicine and/or
>> treatment that you receive.
>>
>> But everything is roses?
>>
>> John B.
>
>Everything isn't roses in the U.S. that's for sure. But for the first
>time in years at least we are starting to move in the right direction
>again. We are now starting to make some of the big changes that we need
>to make to improve. Addressing our health care problems is a good first
>step. Do we have a long way to go to get back to where we should be?
>That's a big affirmative. But we're still a hell of a long way from
>Thailand.
>
>Hawke

You are correct, however I'm not sure whether the big changes are
reality, or just window dressing. Is the new health plan really going
to do much for the average working guy?

If he is working he probably has some sort of health plan already,
doesn't he? Every company I have worked for here in Asia has had
medical coverage, of some sort. The cheapest bunch had a company medic
at every site and would pay for all on-the-job injuries.

I haven't read the bill but from hearsay it seems to be mainly day
laborers and the unemployed. who will benefit.

.
John B.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 4:50 am
From: John

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:46:57 -0400, "Buerste" <buerste@buerste.com>
wrote:

>
>"Hawke" <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
>news:hogb70$lg$1@speranza.aioe.org...
><snip>
>> It's not going to be big businesses. I can tell you that. They haven't
>> created jobs in years. The jobs will be created by individuals starting
>> new businesses and it will be businesses that partner with the government
>> to get a start in new industries that are just getting going. You seem to
>> think you know some secret about how wealth is created. I would love to
>> hear it. I can guarantee it won't be something I don't already know. But
>> it'll probably be some bullshit about the wealthy creating the jobs. One
>> thing is for sure. It won't be entrepreneurs like you though will it? You
>> just told us you won't hire anybody and will just automate. Except maybe
>> for make work jobs for a dufus like Gunner.
>>
>> Hawke
>
>How many jobs has my company created in 131 years? How many jobs has my
> >$15k/wk payroll created considering that those dollars circulate in a
>community 7 times? You create wealth by mining it, growing it or adding
>value (manufacturing) to it and arguably by creating intellectual property.
>The wealthy only provide capital to risk and maybe expertise and for this
>they are entitled to a fair ROI proportional to risk. Wealthy people don't
>hoard money, it's ALWAYS put to work. Take it away from them and there is
>less to invest and less incentive to invest it in the US. The gov likes to
>confiscate as much as it can and give it away to buy votes. The more people
>on the hand-out end will keep voting to keep the free money coming thus
>insuring the continual elections of the politicians giving the confiscated
>money away. Why should these people learn anything and go to work? They
>get it all for free! Good system you got going there! It sure is to the
>advantage to these politicians to keep these people lazy and stupid...and,
>it's working very well!
>
>What ever you subsidize, you get more of...what ever you tax you get less
>of. Write that down and live it! Consider very carefully what you want to
>subsidize and what you want to tax. You want to tax business and money
>suppliers and subsidize illegal aliens, welfare recipients and abortions. I
>want to create favorable conditions for businesses and investors to create
>jobs, teach skills to people and create wealth. You guys have it completely
>backwards.
>

But passing a medical plan for the masses sure gets a lot of votes
next election.

John B.

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TOPIC: ARGH!!! brake controller 104
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0ebf84073fe99e77?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 4:40 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 25, 10:40 pm, Larry Jaques <ljaq...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
> ...
> Oh, that's right. You Brits did it differently, didn't you? Here in
> the States, we learn, at a young age, the subtle differences between 2
> and 4-wheel drifts.

One of the differences I learned then was that my Honda Civic could
out-corner my friend's MG Midget, mostly because the MG's suspension
didn't handle bumps as well and spun out more easily. He was the
better (or at least crazier) driver, too.

Both vehicles had a very small polar moment of inertia and were almost
as tricky as a motorcycle to slide. Later he bought a BMW 2002 that
drifted with excellent balance and control.

jsw

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TOPIC: Republican losing streak continues
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/acd15706db55f813?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 5:08 am
From: John

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:52:24 -0700, Hawke
<davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote:

>On 3/24/2010 5:41 PM, RogerN wrote:
>> "Hawke"<davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
>> news:hodti6$h42$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>>> On 3/24/2010 3:56 AM, RogerN wrote:
>>>> "Too_Many_Tools"<too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:5e86eec3-bad0-4828-b263-73e16e7e7646@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...
>>>> On Mar 22, 6:31 pm, "RogerN"<re...@midwest.net> wrote:
>>>>> "Hawke"<davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> news:ho7172$kp9$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>
>> <snip>
>>>> /
>>>> /And maybe not.
>>>> /
>>>> /Today's passing of the health bill tells you what November will be.
>>>> /
>>>> /TMT
>>>>
>>>> Is Obama going to bribe voters too? Can I get an airport in my yard?
>>>>
>>>> RogerN
>>>
>>> I don't know what you're complaining about. I can just imagine what you'd
>>> be like if you were a Democratic congressman. You'd be doing the same
>>> thing the rest of them did when they realized the president couldn't pass
>>> health care without them. You'd make him give you whatever you wanted for
>>> your vote. In your case it would be about depriving women of their
>>> reproductive rights. I'm sure you'd drive a hard bargain to get what you
>>> wanted too. But since it's someone else and not you in that position you
>>> cry about how bad it is. You would do the same thing if you were in their
>>> place. You're just playing holier than thou.
>>>
>>> Hawke
>>
>> Why do women need more reproductive rights than men?
>
>Because they have more to lose when reproduction occurs than men do. All
>a man may contribute to producing is a teaspoon of semen while women
>have to carry a baby inside them for 9 months, and that's a lot of
>hassle. I think that alone gives them a bigger stake in the game.
>
>
> Also, I'm not talking
>> about taking away their rights, just taking away the taxpayer having to pay
>> for their right to be careless sexually.
>
>You're assuming that anyone wanting an abortion was sexually careless.
>That may not be the case. Also, women have reproductive rights but if
>they are too poor to exercise them then they don't really have the
>right. Meaning only people with money have the right. The government has
>backstopped women so they all get the right.
>
>
> With the complexity of the
>> Healthcare bill, why the hurry to get it passed, why not be more concerned
>> to get it right than get it passes?
>
>It took a year to pass the bill, which is a long time. Especially when
>you consider we already debated the issue in 1993. The choice has been
>there for decades. It was just a matter of the political strength to
>pass it. Democrats finally had the power to do it and that is why they
>pushed it through. Besides, saying what's the hurry was just a phony
>argument made by the republicans to try to stop it. It was not done in a
>hurry.
>
>
> All we need are more bad laws we can't
>> change.
>
>Bad laws are something we don't want to have, for sure. But despite what
>you may have heard all laws can be changed including this one. It will
>be changed too but the main thing is the power of the insurance
>companies has been blunted and it may finally come to being controlled.
>That is a big improvement.
>
> Like if someone is stealing your stuff on your property, they can
>> sue you if they get hurt in the process, I don't understand how any law like
>> that can stand but it does.
>
>
>You don't understand the law. There is no penal code in those cases
>that's broken. It's a civil matter where one citizen sues another and
>it's called a tort. Only if the thief can make a compelling case that
>something the property owner did caused damage to him can he win money.
>Stealing is a public wrong, a crime. If a man is in the process of
>committing a crime and he gets injured he may, and that is not certain.
>He may be able to win a lawsuit against the property owner. But he must
>prove something the property owner did caused his harm. That's not easy
>to do. Most people on a jury don't like to reward thieves any more than
>you do but on rare occasions they will. It's the difference between a
>public wrong and a private one.
>
>Hawke

And, by the same token, even though the court declines to convict an
individual for the crime of murder he can be sued in civil court for
the essentially same (alleged) act and be convicted.

In that case they don't execute him though, they just bankrupt him :-)

John B.

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TOPIC: What is it? Set 329
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1132fdc41582b35f?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 5:11 am
From: "Rob H."

>> 1889 - Haberdashery tool?
>
> Hat holder then?

Not really a holder, it's something that is usually hidden from view.

Rob

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 26 2010 5:26 am
From: Ade

rhvp65@gmail.com did gone and wrote:
>
> >> 1889 - Haberdashery tool?
> >
> > Hat holder then?
>
> Not really a holder, it's something that is usually hidden from view.
>

Could do with a better picture but, is it the mechanism from a
collapsable top hat?

--
Cheers!
Ade

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Friday, March 26, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 11 topics - digest

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