twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 9 topics

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Who will be the first?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f434d5963fd21822?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 12:04 am
From: Don Foreman

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 17:06:27 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
<huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:

>
>First off, I doubt if most people agree with you about Obama's "arrogance."
>Most of us (I'm in the plurality here, who favor his performance)

I've no doubt that you can cite evidence supporting that assertion.
There are lots of polls. This one, first hit on Google for me,
indicates that neither approvers nor disapprovers have a plurality and
that it's about a dead heat:
http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/jobapproval-obama.php

It looks like I gored your ox, and that of Wayne, when I said I view
Obama as arrogant. Pardon the hell out of me! Wayne wants to argue
about that but Wayne clearly prefers to be disagreeable and bicker
with rhetoric he imagines to be clever. (Some of it is.) Screw
Wayne's need for confrontation and argument, he can do that with TMT.
I like strawberries, bluegrass and Kiri Te Kanawa, won't argue that
either. I can respect reasoned dissent, and even unreasoned but
passionate fanatic dissent if respectfully and civilly presented.

I thought the size of the retinue BO brought on his recent trip to
England was flagrantly excessive. I think that's highly arrogant, you
may disagree. He just strikes me as one smug SOB. So did Bush. YMMV.
BO offered the American people hope and change, vaguely defined
notions a majority hungered for after years of war, recent economic
problems and a previous administration that offended many worldwide.

Some are now wondering if massive deficit spending, creating heavy
debt for our successors, is really what they want, but I think the
desire for getting a share of government largesse will, for most,
exceed any sense of responsibility to those who will ultimately get
the bill. As Pogo said, "we've met the enemy and it is us".

It's tax time here in the good ol' USA. Though retired and living
quite modestly, we sent a bunch o' money to the IRS. I don't like the
way that Obama is spending our money, distributing it to
non-contributors. I've no problem with being a responsible citizen and
paying for essential and some non-essential but beneficial(parks, etc)
governmental functions and services, but small government can do that,
big government sucks much harder at the public teat. I don't like
that a bit. I regard that as arrogant because BO clearly doesn't
give a rat's ass what I think, he has his agenda. I must just send it
in and plan to send more next year while he raids medicare I paid into
for 40 years to better provide for those who won't provide for
themselves. I regard that as heavy-handed arrogant governance.
You and Wayne may be wealthy enough to be liberal. That's commendable
if you do it with your money but I don't like it when you or your
chosen pols strive to meet your objectives with my retirement
reserves. I applaud your charitable motives if you do it on your
nickle.

Siezing that choice from me is arrogance bordering on dictatorship...
and it was artfully done by established legal democratic process!
Promises of largesse win votes from the greedy, lazy, rather stupid
and short-sighted i.e. short-term oriented which includes both
pinstripes and those who sing the national anthem as "Jose can you
see"

>And if you don't like the leaders we have, then you know what to do about
>it.

I do. I hope for better alternative candidates to vote for. Hope is
not a strategy but the GOP clearly lacks a strategy or backlog of
credible candidates. Obama won because Jack the Ripper could have won
after dubya. BO has screwed the pooch in far less time than it took
dubya to do that but I don't see any credible candidates to replace
him next election. Ain't that a hell of a note!

> Fantasizing about shooting them, like Larry, Gunner, and the rest of the
>knuckleheads are doing, is the most offensive thing going on here.

Well, Ed, why do you find it so offensive while you assert that it's
all fantasy? Are you not offended by highly-graphic video games
portraying violence to impressionable adolescents? I regard the latter
as far more offensive than a few guys on usenet daydreaming about
zapping some pols they don't like. Have you never fantasized about
wasting a rival or someone you found repugnant? You don't have to
respond, just be honest with yourself. In fantasy, I've treated
dozens of scurvy rat bastard miscreants in a variety of rather
creative, prolonged,excruciatingly painful, ultimately lethal and
utterly untracable (I think) ways. In fantasy. In actuality, I've
done no violence beyond a spanking to any person since military
service decades ago.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 2:24 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 02:04:13 -0500, Don Foreman
<dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:

>On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 17:06:27 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
><huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>First off, I doubt if most people agree with you about Obama's "arrogance."
>>Most of us (I'm in the plurality here, who favor his performance)
>
>I've no doubt that you can cite evidence supporting that assertion.
>There are lots of polls. This one, first hit on Google for me,
>indicates that neither approvers nor disapprovers have a plurality and
>that it's about a dead heat:
>http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/jobapproval-obama.php
>
>It looks like I gored your ox, and that of Wayne, when I said I view
>Obama as arrogant. Pardon the hell out of me! Wayne wants to argue
>about that but Wayne clearly prefers to be disagreeable and bicker
>with rhetoric he imagines to be clever. (Some of it is.) Screw
>Wayne's need for confrontation and argument, he can do that with TMT.
>I like strawberries, bluegrass and Kiri Te Kanawa, won't argue that
>either. I can respect reasoned dissent, and even unreasoned but
>passionate fanatic dissent if respectfully and civilly presented.
>
>I thought the size of the retinue BO brought on his recent trip to
>England was flagrantly excessive. I think that's highly arrogant, you
>may disagree. He just strikes me as one smug SOB. So did Bush. YMMV.
>BO offered the American people hope and change, vaguely defined
>notions a majority hungered for after years of war, recent economic
>problems and a previous administration that offended many worldwide.
>
>Some are now wondering if massive deficit spending, creating heavy
>debt for our successors, is really what they want, but I think the
>desire for getting a share of government largesse will, for most,
>exceed any sense of responsibility to those who will ultimately get
>the bill. As Pogo said, "we've met the enemy and it is us".
>
>It's tax time here in the good ol' USA. Though retired and living
>quite modestly, we sent a bunch o' money to the IRS. I don't like the
>way that Obama is spending our money, distributing it to
>non-contributors. I've no problem with being a responsible citizen and
>paying for essential and some non-essential but beneficial(parks, etc)
>governmental functions and services, but small government can do that,
>big government sucks much harder at the public teat. I don't like
>that a bit. I regard that as arrogant because BO clearly doesn't
>give a rat's ass what I think, he has his agenda. I must just send it
>in and plan to send more next year while he raids medicare I paid into
>for 40 years to better provide for those who won't provide for
>themselves. I regard that as heavy-handed arrogant governance.
>You and Wayne may be wealthy enough to be liberal. That's commendable
>if you do it with your money but I don't like it when you or your
>chosen pols strive to meet your objectives with my retirement
>reserves. I applaud your charitable motives if you do it on your
>nickle.
>
>Siezing that choice from me is arrogance bordering on dictatorship...
>and it was artfully done by established legal democratic process!
>Promises of largesse win votes from the greedy, lazy, rather stupid
>and short-sighted i.e. short-term oriented which includes both
>pinstripes and those who sing the national anthem as "Jose can you
>see"
>
>>And if you don't like the leaders we have, then you know what to do about
>>it.
>
>I do. I hope for better alternative candidates to vote for. Hope is
>not a strategy but the GOP clearly lacks a strategy or backlog of
>credible candidates. Obama won because Jack the Ripper could have won
>after dubya. BO has screwed the pooch in far less time than it took
>dubya to do that but I don't see any credible candidates to replace
>him next election. Ain't that a hell of a note!
>
>> Fantasizing about shooting them, like Larry, Gunner, and the rest of the
>>knuckleheads are doing, is the most offensive thing going on here.
>
>Well, Ed, why do you find it so offensive while you assert that it's
>all fantasy? Are you not offended by highly-graphic video games
>portraying violence to impressionable adolescents? I regard the latter
>as far more offensive than a few guys on usenet daydreaming about
>zapping some pols they don't like. Have you never fantasized about
>wasting a rival or someone you found repugnant? You don't have to
>respond, just be honest with yourself. In fantasy, I've treated
>dozens of scurvy rat bastard miscreants in a variety of rather
>creative, prolonged,excruciatingly painful, ultimately lethal and
>utterly untracable (I think) ways. In fantasy. In actuality, I've
>done no violence beyond a spanking to any person since military
>service decades ago.

http://www.notintexas.org/Taking_Back_America.htm

"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:26 am
From: "Steve B"

"Don Foreman" <dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote

I've no problem with being a responsible citizen and
> paying for essential and some non-essential but beneficial(parks, etc)
> governmental functions and services, but small government can do that,
> big government sucks much harder at the public teat.

Is it me, or have parks, libraries, public buildings, and anything that has
to do with government gone over the top with architecture? Stainless steel
this and that, sculpture, just very expensive things where plain would last
as long, could be done in an attractive manner, and cost one hell of a lot
less. And every project runs seriously over budget, with the contractor
friend of a politician ending up getting paid in full for all the over runs.

I was born in 1948. The schools, libraries, and public buildings I remember
from my childhood and early life were functional buildings that still had
life in them when bulldozed. Then fancy ornate facades put up. Even on the
highways, we have expensive art bas relief symbols that have to be painted
regularly because of taggers.

I love to see parks and public facilities that all can enjoy that were paid
for by taxpayer's dollars. Don't get me wrong. But, the cost of
construction only benefits the contractors who walk away with a bundle at
the end of the job, even if they run 400% over budget.

Steve

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:28 am
From: "Steve B"

>>First off, I doubt if most people agree with you about Obama's
>>"arrogance."

When a man says, "I'll take the same health care as the regular citizen
gets", and then when asked why he didn't, he says, "Because I'm the
president", I'd say that is arrogant.

Steve

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 8:23 am
From: wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 02:04:13 -0500, Don Foreman
<dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:

>I thought the size of the retinue BO brought on his recent trip to
>England was flagrantly excessive. I think that's highly arrogant,

I thought that it was somewhat more offensive <snorf> to lie the
country into an utterly pointless and self-destructive >$3trillion
off-budget war that it couldn't possibly afford.

> I don't like the
>way that Obama is spending our money

Where was your fiscal conservatism when Bush ran amuck?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/07/17/gop-scoffed-at-cbo-score_n_238409.html

I didn't like Bush raising the bar of political BS to unheard of
levels. Remember when he promised to fire anyone involved in the Plame
affair? Bloody hell. You wanted more of the same with McCain, who's
made it abundantly clear that he'll do anything to keep his job.

>big government sucks much harder at the public teat. I don't like
>that a bit. I regard that as arrogant because BO clearly doesn't
>give a rat's ass what I think, he has his agenda. I must just send it
>in and plan to send more next year while he raids medicare I paid into
>for 40 years to better provide for those who won't provide for
>themselves. I regard that as heavy-handed arrogant governance.

Never mind credible support for those claims, where is your analysis
and proof that any of what you mentioned is somehow new, different, or
worse?

>I applaud your charitable motives if you do it on your
>nickle.
>
>Siezing that choice from me is arrogance bordering on dictatorship...

Time for you to take a nap and imagine how you're going to deal with
the dictators... and the guy who overfilled your engine during the
last oil change, and the supermarket checker who didn't say
thank-you...

>and it was artfully done by established legal democratic process!

What happened to the "dictatorship"?

>Promises of largesse win votes from the greedy, lazy, rather stupid
>and short-sighted i.e. short-term oriented which includes both
>pinstripes

You mean, like convincing people that they can afford war as
revenge/entertainment? Partially paying for favors to friends by
dismantling needed agencies and seeding every level of government with
incompetent party hacks? Believing that deficits "don't matter"?
Saying that the constitution is "just a goddamned piece of paper"?
Appointing yes-men to "legally" rationalize flushing morals down the
toilet?

> and those who sing the national anthem as "Jose can you
>see"

Tell the truth, you get really pissed when people wear ball caps in
restaurants, right?

> I hope for better alternative candidates to vote for. Hope is
>not a strategy but the GOP clearly lacks a strategy or backlog of
>credible candidates. Obama won because Jack the Ripper could have won
>after dubya.

Perhaps. And who voted for GW and McCain? If not for some hope and
change we could be reading right now about the latest bombing raids on
Iran and worse. And I bet that wouldn't have offended you at all!

> BO has screwed the pooch

So says a guy who took days to come up with a lame list of what he
finds "offensively arrogant".

> in far less time than it took
>dubya to do that but I don't see any credible candidates to replace
>him next election. Ain't that a hell of a note!

A worse note is that there are too many people who put absurd faith in
a single leader. No individual can fix what's at the root of so many
problems - that the majority wants more services and lower taxes. We
live in the information age where people can learn about and scoff at
nonsense like the "bridge to nowhere", yet at the same time call
themselves fiscal conservatives in favor of every expensive local
project and a manned mission to Mars.

>>Ed says: >> Fantasizing about shooting them, like Larry, Gunner, and the rest of the knuckleheads are doing, is the most offensive thing going on here.

>Well, Ed, why do you find it so offensive while you assert that it's
>all fantasy?

It isn't all fantasy as we've seen from recent events in Michigan. But
the bulk of it is coming from deadbeats and fools who imagine that
they can do with guns what they can't manage at the ballot box. Their
rhetoric feeds the Timothy McVeighs.

> Are you not offended by highly-graphic video games
>portraying violence to impressionable adolescents?

Not really. You're confusing games with fantasizing about killing. Do
you remember watching "The Rifleman", a Mayberry era show where the
lead guns down at least one guy every half hour? Could you tell that
it was a TV show, as opposed to fantasizing about settling your beefs
with a gun?

> I regard the latter
>as far more offensive than a few guys on usenet daydreaming about
>zapping some pols they don't like.

Well, sure, because you prefer to look outward rather than inward.

> Have you never fantasized about
>wasting a rival or someone you found repugnant? You don't have to
>respond, just be honest with yourself. In fantasy, I've treated
>dozens of scurvy rat bastard miscreants in a variety of rather
>creative, prolonged,excruciatingly painful, ultimately lethal and
>utterly untracable (I think) ways.

And there we have it, the core resource of the "great cull" crowd.

> In fantasy. In actuality, I've
>done no violence

Unfortunately you're a dedicated enabler. You're not fooling anybody
with all this "just because I don't condemn it doesn't mean I condone
it" doubletalk.

Wayne

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anniversary of an amazingly enduring design
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/57c9c3facffdfb67?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 1:46 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:45:50 -0500, Don Foreman
<dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 04:48:41 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 02:18:27 -0500, "Don Foreman"
>><dforemanNOSPAM@goldengate.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Gunner Asch" <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>news:mgu0r5lbvc6a6o2rikag9crf0ifmva6pun@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:17:37 -0500, "Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 10:25:44 -0500, "Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >Ignoramus11443 wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> That's a very enduring design, yes. I actually own a Beretta and love
>>>>>> >> it. How does that .45 handle, is the recoil a little too much?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> i
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >I prefer 9mm personally, mostly for the high capacity. I have shot
>>>>>> >friend's .45s many times during the same shooting sessions as my 9mms
>>>>>> >and really didn't notice much difference in recoil. Given my tendency
>>>>>> >for carpal tunnel issues I would think I'd notice. I do notice a
>>>>>> >difference in recoil between my two S&W 9mms, one being metal frame and
>>>>>> >one being plastic frame with about 12oz weight difference and otherwise
>>>>>> >with the same barrel length and shooting the same ammunition. The
>>>>>> >lighter plastic frame 9mm has more pronounced recoil as you would
>>>>>> >expect
>>>>>> >with the lower weight / mass.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> High capacity? How many people do you figure are going to be attacking
>>>>>> you at one time? If its more than 3..doncha think a rifle would be a
>>>>>> better tool?
>>>>>
>>>>>Zero would be my preference. I just don't want to have any real
>>>>>possibility of going empty in any reasonably probable scenario.
>>>>
>>>> Average number of rounds fired in a self defense shooting
>>>> situation...2.5 <G>
>>>>
>>>> Average range, 7 yrds
>>>>
>>>> I think you are going to be pretty safe with a 8 rd weapon that can
>>>> actually stop someone with the first round. That unfortunately cant be
>>>> said of the 9mm
>>>>
>>>> Gunner
>>>
>>>That can't be said of the .40 or .45 either.
>>
>>It can, 98% of the time...but only 61% of the time with a 9mikemike.
>>
>> The probability of a one-shot
>>>stop is higher with the more powerful rounds, but it's far from a certainty.
>>>Shot placement is far more important
>>>than caliber or power. A .22 rimfire hollowpoint is a one-shot drop if the
>>>shot is perfectly placed. Ask any assassin. My dad was killed with one shot
>>>from a .22 rimfire.
>>>
>>>A shotgun with #4 buck gets 'er done because of the high probability of one
>>>of the coupla dozen little 24-caliber (6 mm) balls hitting something that
>>>will result in instant incapacitation. 6mm is smaler than 9mm. Bigger
>>>ammo does more damage per wound channel but instant drop requires that
>>>damage be done to very specific locations. Handgun ammo, unlike much higher
>>>velocity smaller caliber 5.62 mm (.223 caliber) rifle ammo, does not
>>>deliver sufficent hydrostatic shock to matter, so a stop/drop hit must
>>>impact spine, brain, heart, or other organ that will result in instant
>>>shock, or pelvis that can result in incapacitating pain but that's iffy with
>>>drug-crazed assailants who feel no pain.
>>
>>Indeed. Though packing a shotgun in a shoulder rig is problematic.
>>>
>>>Hitting such key small locations, short of head shots, is well beyond the
>>>marksmanship capability of most shooters, perhaps all shooters in a stress
>>>sit. I can repeatedly hit the face of an assailant at 7 yards but there's
>>>no way I'd bet I could hit his spine when we're both moving, in dark or low
>>>light, stoked with adrenaline.
>>
>>As I told Pete C. Though center of mass is relatively easy based on my
>>experience with amatures who had to shoot in self defense.
>>>
>>>Ability to accurately place several shots very rapidly is much more likely
>>>to drop an assailant than having a bigger gun. I did say accurately, but
>>>I'm not talking bullseye here but several rounds to COM and a couple to head
>>>at short range. Self defense is a dynamic, adrenaline-charged
>>>scared-shitless short-range activity, not a military activity done by young
>>>men in a high state of training.
>>>I assert that the best tactic is to use a weapon/caliber that the
>>>individual, young or old, male or female, big or small, strong or weak,
>>>liberal or conservative, can best deliver most fire with workable accuracy
>>>in a very few seconds of time. That's why nobody disputes the
>>>effectiveness of a shotgun or a full auto rifle.
>>>
>>>Most occasional shooters can deliver accurate rapid fire much better with a
>>>9mm than they can with a .40 or .45, and the nines hold more ammo.
>>>
>>Occasional shooters? Oh..you mean people who shouldnt be carrying a
>>deadly weapon?
>
>Good point. Most of the men and women I shoot with shoot more often
>(and more skillfully) than most cops. Laura shoots a .40 compact
>every bit as well as she does a 9mmp. I do a little better with both
>9mmp and .45ACP than with .40S&W.
>>
>>>A .380 is a one-shot drop if shot placement is right. A .380 with 7 rounds
>>>fired rapidly enough to hit at point blank range has far higher probability
>>>of stop than one hit from a .45ACP. The objective is to stop, no bonus for
>>>doing it in one shot. Get it done with as many shots as it takes,
>>>accurately delivered to drop the assailant.
>>
>>The problem with that is..he may not let you shoot him a bunch of times
>>before he crushes your skull with a rock.
>
>That's absurd. He needs to be within arm's length to hit me with a
>rock or cut me with a blade. I don't need sights to hit a face-sized
>target at 5 feet, and even a .380 has considerably more energy than a
>rock swung or thrown by hand. His problem is that I'll shoot his face
>off before he can crush my skull with a rock.
>
>>>
>>>That's why I assert that the .380 one might carry is far more defense than a
>>>.45 one leaves at home. It's a moot point for those who routinely carry a
>>>.45 and can shoot it well. I do shoot a .45 respectably but I don't care to
>>>pack one though I do have a holster for my Colt Officer's and my instructor
>>>in the CQB (close quarters battle) training I did with that pistol thought
>>>I shot it respectably.
>>>I don't even pack a .380 most days.
>>>
>>>We've had this joust before, Gunner. Not saying you're wrong , just sayin'
>>>that the solution you find right for you may not be right for others.
>>
>>True enough.
>>
>>You stick to the mouse guns and Ill stick to the man stoppers I dont
>>have to shoot a guy 9 times with.
>>
>>Deal?
>
>Deal. And I'll stipulate that if I went some of the places you go,
>I'd probably want my Colt Officer's .45 with me.
>

http://detnews.com/article/20071205/METRO/712050396/Girl--7--shot-6-times-saving-mom

7 yr old takes 6 hits at point blank range from a 9mm..and lives.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/03/18/20090318shotsue0318.html
http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/09/23/Family_Says_911_Tape_Caught_Cops_Planning_Cover-Up_After_Shooting.htm

Innocent man shot 6 times by police and survives

And so forth.

http://www.wgal.com/news/22960516/detail.html
http://www.greatamericans.com/video/Survival-Story-Officer-Jeff-Deg
http://www.nowpublic.com/woman_shot_six_times_in_head_lives
http://www.news4jax.com/news/10529143/detail.html
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6873bb1258
http://articles.sfgate.com/2000-04-06/news/17644568_1_freeway-overpass-police-officer-shot-oakland-police
http://www.10news.com/news/22244416/detail.html
http://www2.wjtv.com/jtv/news/state_regional/article/-JTV_2008_12_16_0009/9466/
http://cbs5.com/local/fremont.robbery.shooting.2.1287789.html

Just a heads up for those who believe in the 9mm.....

And of course..one of my favorites...
<G>

http://www.snopes.com/crime/cops/judd.asp

<VBG>

Gunner

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 1:48 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 21:34:24 -0700, Bob <bobm4360@earthlink.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 08:21:08 +0700, John B. Slocomb
><johnbslocomb@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>(snip)
>>
>>I don't think I've actually seen a ACE .22 system. Are they the ones
>>with the floating chamber to provide the force to cycle the slide?
>>
>>John B. Slocomb
>>(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)
>
>Yes; and the ideal training setup for new shooters. Unlike many .22s,
>there is significant felt recoil, but "It's only a .22". Makes an easy
>transition to a .45!
>
>Bob

I sold my ACE conversion back in the 90s to help pay for one of my sons
many surgeries. It was a VERY nice addition to anyone who owns a .45 and
it trained a lot of shooters who then graduated to the regular .45

Gunner

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 3:17 am
From: pyotr filipivich

Let the Record show that cavelamb <cavelamb@earthlink.net> on or about
Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:31:50 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>It's about the depth of the gravity well, p.

Low Earth Orbit is half way to the universe.
>
>The moon (IMHO) was put there as a useful resource.
>
>Aluminum galore.
>LOTS of solar power.

For two weeks out of the month - and the next two weeks?

>And - damit - water!
>
>So, you DON'T have to take every thing with you.
>You mine, refine, and manufacture - on the moon.

All you need to do is bring your food. Your air. Your water.
Your space suit. But it is doable. Just realize that solar energy
is only available 14 days a month. The rest of the time you're going
to be on batteries, or imported nuclear power plants. (And good luck
getting those, the green weenies will pitch hissy fits at the very
idea of polluting the pristine Lunar Surface with nuclear pollution
and waste.)
>
>Unless, of course, you want to go straight to Mars.
>(Which I doubt it really do-able)

According tot he book, it was doable in 1990. Or doable starting
in 1990, within ten years. With existing technology.

>We NEED a moon base...
>
>Heck, check the escape velocity numbers.
>You can THROW stuff up to orbit from the moon.
>(solar powered linear accelerators)

But you have to pilot a space craft all the way to touch down.
There is no "free" negative acceleration on the moon. Now, one of the
nifty things about the moon is that because there is no atmosphere,
there is nothing to prevent you from orbiting a meter from the
surface. But you can orbit there forever, because there is nothing to
slow you down for a reentry/landing.
>
>Had we set up a moon base back in the 70s - 80s, I'd
>bet we'd be ON Mars by now.
>
>But without that "tree house in the sky"?
>
>We aren't going anywhere.

The saying it of old, earth orbit is half way to the universe. And
the difference in Delta V between going to and landing on the moon
(remember, you can't trade speed for heat on the moon, as you can with
a reentry to planet with an atmosphere), and going to Mars is "minor"
(on the order of a couple meters/sec if I recall correctly).
>
>Ever.

The guys argument is basically, if you want a project which would
have cost 450 billion dollars in 1990, take 20 years, and requires
development of many new technologies, then the "BattleStar Galactica"
approach to a mission to mars (LEO station, a moon base, and then the
construction in pace of a ship to transport an away team to Mars for a
thirty day ground mission.) - then go for it. You just have to make
sure that you can convince Congress to keep up such a program, though
several election cycles. But with what we had, on the shelf so to
speak, and 20 billion dollars to start, starting in 1990 we would have
several years of data and the potential for a self supporting
base/colony on mars. One that does not have to import food, oxygen,
fuel, or raw materials.
When I get the book back, I'll dig up the numbers. While any
planetary exploration/base project is not necessary a bad one, IMHO,
the Mars Direct is the better goal. One of the things he mentions as
a reason for this is the whole need for a "Frontier" - particularly as
Americans. There is a need for someplace to go, where the emphasis is
on getting things done, not filling out the forms and holding meetings
in order to get approval to approach the next circle of hoops to jump
through. Much of the technological innovation which drove the
American expansion was driven by the relative lack of labor and the
need to "get 'er done!" Mars would provide just such an environment,
far more than the moon would.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:01 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 01:46:03 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
<gunnerasch@gmail.com> scrawled the following:

>On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 23:45:50 -0500, Don Foreman
><dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 04:48:41 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 02:18:27 -0500, "Don Foreman"
>>><dforemanNOSPAM@goldengate.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Gunner Asch" <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:mgu0r5lbvc6a6o2rikag9crf0ifmva6pun@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 18:17:37 -0500, "Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 10:25:44 -0500, "Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >Ignoramus11443 wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> That's a very enduring design, yes. I actually own a Beretta and love
>>>>>>> >> it. How does that .45 handle, is the recoil a little too much?
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> i
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >I prefer 9mm personally, mostly for the high capacity. I have shot
>>>>>>> >friend's .45s many times during the same shooting sessions as my 9mms
>>>>>>> >and really didn't notice much difference in recoil. Given my tendency
>>>>>>> >for carpal tunnel issues I would think I'd notice. I do notice a
>>>>>>> >difference in recoil between my two S&W 9mms, one being metal frame and
>>>>>>> >one being plastic frame with about 12oz weight difference and otherwise
>>>>>>> >with the same barrel length and shooting the same ammunition. The
>>>>>>> >lighter plastic frame 9mm has more pronounced recoil as you would
>>>>>>> >expect
>>>>>>> >with the lower weight / mass.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> High capacity? How many people do you figure are going to be attacking
>>>>>>> you at one time? If its more than 3..doncha think a rifle would be a
>>>>>>> better tool?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Zero would be my preference. I just don't want to have any real
>>>>>>possibility of going empty in any reasonably probable scenario.
>>>>>
>>>>> Average number of rounds fired in a self defense shooting
>>>>> situation...2.5 <G>
>>>>>
>>>>> Average range, 7 yrds
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you are going to be pretty safe with a 8 rd weapon that can
>>>>> actually stop someone with the first round. That unfortunately cant be
>>>>> said of the 9mm
>>>>>
>>>>> Gunner
>>>>
>>>>That can't be said of the .40 or .45 either.
>>>
>>>It can, 98% of the time...but only 61% of the time with a 9mikemike.
>>>
>>> The probability of a one-shot
>>>>stop is higher with the more powerful rounds, but it's far from a certainty.
>>>>Shot placement is far more important
>>>>than caliber or power. A .22 rimfire hollowpoint is a one-shot drop if the
>>>>shot is perfectly placed. Ask any assassin. My dad was killed with one shot
>>>>from a .22 rimfire.
>>>>
>>>>A shotgun with #4 buck gets 'er done because of the high probability of one
>>>>of the coupla dozen little 24-caliber (6 mm) balls hitting something that
>>>>will result in instant incapacitation. 6mm is smaler than 9mm. Bigger
>>>>ammo does more damage per wound channel but instant drop requires that
>>>>damage be done to very specific locations. Handgun ammo, unlike much higher
>>>>velocity smaller caliber 5.62 mm (.223 caliber) rifle ammo, does not
>>>>deliver sufficent hydrostatic shock to matter, so a stop/drop hit must
>>>>impact spine, brain, heart, or other organ that will result in instant
>>>>shock, or pelvis that can result in incapacitating pain but that's iffy with
>>>>drug-crazed assailants who feel no pain.
>>>
>>>Indeed. Though packing a shotgun in a shoulder rig is problematic.
>>>>
>>>>Hitting such key small locations, short of head shots, is well beyond the
>>>>marksmanship capability of most shooters, perhaps all shooters in a stress
>>>>sit. I can repeatedly hit the face of an assailant at 7 yards but there's
>>>>no way I'd bet I could hit his spine when we're both moving, in dark or low
>>>>light, stoked with adrenaline.
>>>
>>>As I told Pete C. Though center of mass is relatively easy based on my
>>>experience with amatures who had to shoot in self defense.
>>>>
>>>>Ability to accurately place several shots very rapidly is much more likely
>>>>to drop an assailant than having a bigger gun. I did say accurately, but
>>>>I'm not talking bullseye here but several rounds to COM and a couple to head
>>>>at short range. Self defense is a dynamic, adrenaline-charged
>>>>scared-shitless short-range activity, not a military activity done by young
>>>>men in a high state of training.
>>>>I assert that the best tactic is to use a weapon/caliber that the
>>>>individual, young or old, male or female, big or small, strong or weak,
>>>>liberal or conservative, can best deliver most fire with workable accuracy
>>>>in a very few seconds of time. That's why nobody disputes the
>>>>effectiveness of a shotgun or a full auto rifle.
>>>>
>>>>Most occasional shooters can deliver accurate rapid fire much better with a
>>>>9mm than they can with a .40 or .45, and the nines hold more ammo.
>>>>
>>>Occasional shooters? Oh..you mean people who shouldnt be carrying a
>>>deadly weapon?
>>
>>Good point. Most of the men and women I shoot with shoot more often
>>(and more skillfully) than most cops. Laura shoots a .40 compact
>>every bit as well as she does a 9mmp. I do a little better with both
>>9mmp and .45ACP than with .40S&W.
>>>
>>>>A .380 is a one-shot drop if shot placement is right. A .380 with 7 rounds
>>>>fired rapidly enough to hit at point blank range has far higher probability
>>>>of stop than one hit from a .45ACP. The objective is to stop, no bonus for
>>>>doing it in one shot. Get it done with as many shots as it takes,
>>>>accurately delivered to drop the assailant.
>>>
>>>The problem with that is..he may not let you shoot him a bunch of times
>>>before he crushes your skull with a rock.
>>
>>That's absurd. He needs to be within arm's length to hit me with a
>>rock or cut me with a blade. I don't need sights to hit a face-sized
>>target at 5 feet, and even a .380 has considerably more energy than a
>>rock swung or thrown by hand. His problem is that I'll shoot his face
>>off before he can crush my skull with a rock.
>>
>>>>
>>>>That's why I assert that the .380 one might carry is far more defense than a
>>>>.45 one leaves at home. It's a moot point for those who routinely carry a
>>>>.45 and can shoot it well. I do shoot a .45 respectably but I don't care to
>>>>pack one though I do have a holster for my Colt Officer's and my instructor
>>>>in the CQB (close quarters battle) training I did with that pistol thought
>>>>I shot it respectably.
>>>>I don't even pack a .380 most days.
>>>>
>>>>We've had this joust before, Gunner. Not saying you're wrong , just sayin'
>>>>that the solution you find right for you may not be right for others.
>>>
>>>True enough.
>>>
>>>You stick to the mouse guns and Ill stick to the man stoppers I dont
>>>have to shoot a guy 9 times with.
>>>
>>>Deal?
>>
>>Deal. And I'll stipulate that if I went some of the places you go,
>>I'd probably want my Colt Officer's .45 with me.
>>
>
>http://detnews.com/article/20071205/METRO/712050396/Girl--7--shot-6-times-saving-mom
>
>7 yr old takes 6 hits at point blank range from a 9mm..and lives.

Tillie is going to have a real fun time in prison after that, isn't
he?

>http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/03/18/20090318shotsue0318.html
>http://www.courthousenews.com/2009/09/23/Family_Says_911_Tape_Caught_Cops_Planning_Cover-Up_After_Shooting.htm
>
>Innocent man shot 6 times by police and survives
>
>And so forth.
>
>http://www.wgal.com/news/22960516/detail.html
>http://www.greatamericans.com/video/Survival-Story-Officer-Jeff-Deg
>http://www.nowpublic.com/woman_shot_six_times_in_head_lives
>http://www.news4jax.com/news/10529143/detail.html
>http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6873bb1258
>http://articles.sfgate.com/2000-04-06/news/17644568_1_freeway-overpass-police-officer-shot-oakland-police

Oops, you got this one bass ackwards, G. The perp had a 9mm and the
cop a .45. The PERP was hit 6 times and lived.

Most of the others don't discuss caliber and one was a .32.
"The googlefu in this one is weak."

>Just a heads up for those who believe in the 9mm.....

How about stories of .45 shooting survival? Nothing is certain.
http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-man-survives-cancer-shooting-txt,0,4228109.story
http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?action=printpage;topic=20431.0
http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050616/news_7m16mmshoot.html
http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Filipino_activist_leader_survives_assassination_attempt
(Wow, lots of .45 shooting stories from the Phillipines! It's more
dangerous over there since they kicked us out. Too bad for them.)

Cop shoots 4x with .357 Silvertips but is killed by a single .22 shot.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs3.htm

More .22 kills:
http://www.buffalonews.com/2009/05/21/678226/albert-menefee-jr-survivor-of.html
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/19/arizona.boy.homicide/index.html
http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/B/BROGSDALE_rickey_henry.php

So, there you have it. Bullets are capable of killing people, no
matter what caliber or power.

I own a 9mm and don't see any overwhelming reason to replace it.
Sure, I'd happily take a .45 to keep in the house or truck. During a
home invasion, I'd still hope I could get to my rifle first, though.
;)

>And of course..one of my favorites...
><G>
>
>http://www.snopes.com/crime/cops/judd.asp
><VBG>

Oh, I hadn't known that the perp was such a wonderful fellow, but I
liked the article in Snopes better than the email which went around.
It was almost as good as what Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio did
with his tent jail with pink convict uniforms. Perps won't want to do
anything to get sent back THERE. That's fer sher!

--
May those who love us, love us;
And may those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts;
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles,
So we'll know them by their limping.
--old Gaelic blessing

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Hyperinflation as a goal?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5baf0df42579e249?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 3:29 am
From: Wes

"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:

>For the record, the guy missed the ENTIRE monetary issue with
>between-the-wars Germany. The world was on a gold standard then, and we had
>taken all their gold. Between the Brits and the French (and us) we took just
>about everything else that wasn't nailed down, too, as war reparations.
>
>When the world monetary system is based on gold and you don't have any,
>you're screwed. Germany was utterly, thoroughly screwed economically. They
>printed something that amounted to worthless script in an attempt to prevent
>an absolute meltdown. But there was no gold, so there was no money.
>
>To pay reparations, they monetized the only thing they had left -- land.
>There is NOTHING that would force such a thing now. Thank God we're off the
>gold standard. We have a variety of other ways to control money, and the
>world is doing pretty well with it, considering that we just had a very deep
>recession.

As it is we are borrowing money. Eventually it has to be repaid. With what?

I'm thinking of a senario where the next time there is a treasury auction, no one wants to
buy.

Wes

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:29 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

Wes wrote:
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> For the record, the guy missed the ENTIRE monetary issue with
>> between-the-wars Germany. The world was on a gold standard then, and
>> we had taken all their gold. Between the Brits and the French (and
>> us) we took just about everything else that wasn't nailed down, too,
>> as war reparations.
>>
>> When the world monetary system is based on gold and you don't have
>> any, you're screwed. Germany was utterly, thoroughly screwed
>> economically. They printed something that amounted to worthless
>> script in an attempt to prevent an absolute meltdown. But there was
>> no gold, so there was no money.
>>
>> To pay reparations, they monetized the only thing they had left --
>> land. There is NOTHING that would force such a thing now. Thank God
>> we're off the gold standard. We have a variety of other ways to
>> control money, and the world is doing pretty well with it,
>> considering that we just had a very deep recession.
>
>
> As it is we are borrowing money. Eventually it has to be repaid.
> With what?

The same thing used during the end of the Clinton years Wes.
You use the tax collections that exceed spending.

>
> I'm thinking of a senario where the next time there is a treasury
> auction, no one wants to buy.

That happened about five years ago more that once Wes.
Treasury auctions were undersubscribed numerous times.

--
John R. Carroll

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:52 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

At which point, our creditors would be left with worthless
promises. However, what are the odds that the US government
(or any employee thereof) would ever break a promise?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:EBEsn.114378$Bs1.109837@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...

As it is we are borrowing money. Eventually it has to be
repaid. With what?

I'm thinking of a senario where the next time there is a
treasury auction, no one wants to
buy.

Wes

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 8:19 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:EBEsn.114378$Bs1.109837@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>For the record, the guy missed the ENTIRE monetary issue with
>>between-the-wars Germany. The world was on a gold standard then, and we
>>had
>>taken all their gold. Between the Brits and the French (and us) we took
>>just
>>about everything else that wasn't nailed down, too, as war reparations.
>>
>>When the world monetary system is based on gold and you don't have any,
>>you're screwed. Germany was utterly, thoroughly screwed economically. They
>>printed something that amounted to worthless script in an attempt to
>>prevent
>>an absolute meltdown. But there was no gold, so there was no money.
>>
>>To pay reparations, they monetized the only thing they had left -- land.
>>There is NOTHING that would force such a thing now. Thank God we're off
>>the
>>gold standard. We have a variety of other ways to control money, and the
>>world is doing pretty well with it, considering that we just had a very
>>deep
>>recession.
>
>
> As it is we are borrowing money. Eventually it has to be repaid. With
> what?
>
> I'm thinking of a senario where the next time there is a treasury auction,
> no one wants to
> buy.
>
> Wes

Basically, what John said. Also, we were far deeper in debt after WWII than
we are now. The answer was to grow out of it, and to collect taxes so we
could pay it down. Growth was easier then. That's one part of the problem
now.

So the big goal is to get growth going. It's going to be hard to get enough
of it; the stimulus program is the only realistic thing government can do.
Business sure as hell won't do much on its own. You can cut taxes and lower
wages until you're blue, but they won't invest if they think there are no
buyers for their products. When a recession gets this deep, you really have
to stimulate the demand side.

With growth and sensible taxes, you pay the debt down. No growth, no chance.
No taxes, no chance.

In extremis, you let your currency deflate. Milton Friedman thought that it
was the natural and logical thing, and should not be resisted. Your economy
will still suck but you won't go bankrupt. And things won't collapse if you
do it carefully.

Again, because we're not on a gold standard and because our debts are almost
all denominated in our own currency, we're in relatively good shape. All of
that makes it more necessary, however, to handle these things responsibly.
"Responsibly" doesn't mean what it means in home economics, either.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bubble of Ignorance
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2990ea519b199327?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 3:27 am
From: Hang Dog

Cliff wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 16:10:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Gunner
>
> Just mention ignorance & he comes running to give a live demo ...

So very much true.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: paypal wholesale all brand(UGGBOOTS,SHOES,CLOTHES,HANDBAG,WATCH,JEANS,
JERSEY,T-SHIRT,SHIRTS,HOODY,EYEGLASS,CAP,SHAWL,WALLT) and so on.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e6a2202d32edeb01?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 4:50 am
From: huang xiang

our MSN and email both are :people-trade@hotmail.com

paypal payment wholesale all brand
shoes(NIKE,ADIDAS,LV,GUCCI,CHANEL,PRADA,POLO,UGG BOOTS,D&G,DIOR )and
so on.
paypal payment wholesale all brand clothing(T-
SHIRT,JEANS,JERSEY,HOODIES,JACKETS,HARDY,SWEATER,SHIRTS )and so on .
http://picasaweb.google.com/peopletrade.shoes001/
http://picasaweb.google.com/peopletrade.clothing002/

paypal payment all brand
watch(ROLEX,OMEGA,CHANEL,LV,CARTIER,IWC,GUCCI,RADO )and so on.
paypal payment all brand
handbag(LV,GUCCI,CHANEL,PRADA,POLO,COACH,FENDI,CHLOE,BUBERRY,JUICY)
and so on.
paypal payment brand CAP,SHAWL,BELT,WALLET,UNDER WEAR)and so on.

More detail land,address: http://picasaweb.google.com/peopletrade.clothing001/
http://picasaweb.google.com/peopletrade.shoes002/
http://picasaweb.google.com/peopletrade.clothing003/

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 6:18 am
From: Dan Q very much

Spam, posted to shorten subject

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:24 am
From: spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller)

In article <95ef6006-8ca9-4cd3-af2c-85ecaf162823@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, Dan Q very much <dquella@new.rr.com> wrote:
>Spam, posted to shorten subject

Moron. Did you think the rest of us were unable to figure out for ourselves
that it's spam?

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 8:27 am
From: Dan Q very much

On Mar 31, 9:24 am, spamb...@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
> In article <95ef6006-8ca9-4cd3-af2c-85ecaf162...@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, Dan Q very much <dque...@new.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >Spam, posted to shorten subject
>
> Moron. Did you think the rest of us were unable to figure out for ourselves
> that it's spam?

I guess you liked seeing spam with a multi-line subject mucking up the
thread list? This is what I get for trying to be helpful?

Do you have some other problem with me that you're so quick to label
what I did moronic? Or are you just a dick?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: K. O. Lee tool and cutter machine
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3045e0a310c82017?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 4:55 am
From: psient

Hi:

I am new to google groups but post regularly on Practical Machinist,
Candle Power Forums, Pirate 4X4.

I just purchased a very rough K. O. Lee 900 series tool cutter and
grinder. It is only useful as a hobby/project. I have a 1340 Lathe and
a nice Bridgeport series 1 2hp varispeed mill.

Has anyone had experience/own this machine? Is anyone who does own
this machine local to me in Riverside CA?

I can post pictures on photobucket when I receive the machine.

Does anyone know a source for tooling outside of LeBlond?

Thanks to all,

Jon

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 6:26 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 04:55:21 -0700 (PDT), psient <psient@apjetstream.us>
wrote:

>Hi:
>
>I am new to google groups but post regularly on Practical Machinist,
>Candle Power Forums, Pirate 4X4.
>
>I just purchased a very rough K. O. Lee 900 series tool cutter and
>grinder. It is only useful as a hobby/project. I have a 1340 Lathe and
>a nice Bridgeport series 1 2hp varispeed mill.
>
>Has anyone had experience/own this machine? Is anyone who does own
>this machine local to me in Riverside CA?
>
>I can post pictures on photobucket when I receive the machine.
>
>Does anyone know a source for tooling outside of LeBlond?
>
>Thanks to all,
>
>Jon

I have a KO Lee 300 that I use regulary..

Its very simliar to the 900, but much smaller

Im sure you have seen the manuals at

http://www.kolee.com/PARTSMANUALS/tabid/125/Default.aspx

What do you need to know?

Gunner

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Ideas wanted (metal related)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/b0d4050c65632020?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 6:17 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 30, 9:22 pm, "Ivan Vegvary" <ivanvegv...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Going to the Portland, OR swap meet soon. 8-10 hours of walking for this
> old guy.
> Was thinking of pushing my two wheel dolly through the show, and, would like
> to attach a fold down seat to the uprights. I have plenty of ideas for
> seats, need ideas for the attachment.
>
> Uprights on the dolly are approximately 1 inch diameter tubing. Ideally,
> the seat would be easy to remove and replace.
> Ivan Vegvary

I'd cut a plywood rectangle and attach rope to each corner. The rear
ropes tie the seat to the uprights and suspend it from a crossbar, the
front ones run down diagonally from near the handles. You could bungee
on a boat cushion.

If you buy something large you can fold or remove the seat and maybe
even use the wood and rope to help secure it.

A simple way to attach the rope to the seat is to drill a hole the
rope barely fits through near each corner and thread the rope down
through the rear hole and diagonally across underneath, then up
through the front hole. Tie a figure eight knot under the holes so the
rope won't pull through. Then if the plywood cracks the rope still
supports you.

jsw

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:39 am
From: "Stormin Mormon"

How about a 5 galon bucket with a "hunters bucket seat"
top? You can use the bucket to store your purchases.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Ivan Vegvary" <ivanvegvary@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hou84k$vbb$1@news.eternal-september.org...
Going to the Portland, OR swap meet soon. 8-10 hours of
walking for this
old guy.
Was thinking of pushing my two wheel dolly through the show,
and, would like
to attach a fold down seat to the uprights. I have plenty
of ideas for
seats, need ideas for the attachment.

Uprights on the dolly are approximately 1 inch diameter
tubing. Ideally,
the seat would be easy to remove and replace.

Thanks for thinking,

Ivan Vegvary

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Would you buy a new Toyota?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/92b2cda20b50e86b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:16 am
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Mar 23, 6:08 pm, "Chief Egalitarian" <Egal@legal_egal.law> wrote:
> "Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
>
> news:hobf4t$f4d$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > cavelamb <cavel...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >>What does it take to cause a bit to flip?
> >>Say, in ten years?
>
> > Stray neutrino's?
>
> > Wes
>
> She'll flip if you complement her a bit.

Is that what works with your boyfriend?

TMT

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:20 am
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Mar 25, 10:07 pm, "Chief Egalitarian" <Egal@legal_egal.law> wrote:
> "Concerend Citizen" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:9c9c374b-b1a6-467b-8ac1-b67e5d3db58e@y17g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 24, 1:27 am, Ted Frater <ted.fra...@virgin.net> wrote:
> >> Concerend Citizen wrote:
> >> > On Mar 21, 10:57 pm, "Chief Egalitarian" <Egal@legal_egal.law> wrote:
> >> >> Serious question. I could probably get a sweet deal. My local Honda
> >> >> dealer
> >> >> says people are trading them in faster than they can handle even
> >> >> 2010's.
>
> >> > No. Too expensive.
>
> >> > I'd buy a used one.
>
> >> To answer the headline question,
> >> no,
> >> why,?
> >> you cannot have the smallest chance of a glitch that makes the car go
> >> when you want it to stop.
> >> Its called primary structure.
> >> Just because it can be done by computer doesnt mean it should be, when
> >> simpler and 100% fail safe solutions are and have been available.
> >> Id go so far to say I would not have one even if it was given to me for
> >> free.
> >> In the aviation world fly by wire is at the minimum duplicated.
> >> On the Peugeot 305 1984, which I did 250,000 miles, over 25 yrs before
> >> retiring it due to body rot, the throttle pedal had its own return
> >> spring, the bosch injection pump als has its own return spring, the 2
> >> connected together with a simple stainless bowden cable inside a teflon
> >> sleeved cover.
> >> Never ever wore out , and you could always see it .
> >> No ,toyota has to pay the price of trying to be too clever and letting
> >> the eye off the ball.
> >> Ted.
>
> > Merely a ploy to steer buyers to Government Motors. Biden beat you to
> > it, though.
>
> I ended up buying a Nissan. Thanks for all the great replies.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Why not American?

TMT

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Making an arbitrary angle in pipe
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/46687f75a9b92e97?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Mar 31 2010 7:58 am
From: Bob Gentry

On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 00:02:53 -0500, Don Foreman
<dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 13:43:07 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
><bobengelhardt@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>Bob Gentry wrote:
>>... (most codes frown on PVC for service entry use)
>>
>>Around here (NW of Boston) it's used almost exclusively. For
>>residential anyhow. Bob
>
>My neighbor is a guy that would be sure he meets applicable codes. The
>Fridley electrical inspector is a good guy, very willing to answer
>questions and help homeowners do things right the first time.
>
>The three-elbows problem was mostly an interesting puzzle for me. If
>an electrical shop can bend the conduit, that's the clear way to go.

A small, residential only, might have a bit of a problem. (That was
the focus of my business back 'in the day'. I did make a few 'offset'
bends with a small hydraulic bender so it is doable)

But bends like this are done all the time in the commercial electrical
world. If you made up a sketch with the planes on which the conduit
will 'lay' and the various offset dimensions, a commercial shop should
be able to give you a bid.

Sounds like it might be a fun Alibre project using the NEC
requirements for bend radius <grin>.
rgentry at oz dot net

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Wednesday, March 31, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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