twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 12 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What sort of surface plate is this?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c2e43cb2e443c86d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:28 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Joseph Gwinn" <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:joegwinn-1010AA.22591216032010@news.giganews.com...
> In article <4ba005a5$0$21623$607ed4bc@cv.net>,
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> "Joseph Gwinn" <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:joegwinn-15C75C.00172516032010@news.giganews.com...
>> > In article <4b9ef343$0$22515$607ed4bc@cv.net>,
>> > "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "anorton" <anorton@removethis.ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:kIudnUtybYMNSAPWnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>> >> >
>> > [snip]
>> >>
>> >> > I am hardly an expert, but I do have a Lapmaster-12 machine in my
>> >> > garage.
>> >> > Optical engineering is my profession and I want to convert it to
>> >> > polish
>> >> > glass.
>> >>
>> >> Now, there's a machine that you won't find in many hobby shops. <g>
>> >> For
>> >> some
>> >> reason, I've always found lapping to be interesting.
>> >>
>> >> I remember reading the account of Johannson <sp?> making his first set
>> >> of
>> >> gage blocks, and some years later, Dick Moore making his first set on
>> >> his
>> >> kitchen table, lapping them by hand.
>> >
>> > These accounts would be interesting. Do you recall where you saw them?
>>
>> The account of Johannson was in a book I borrowed from Mitutoyo's
>> collection. It was a rare book -- I don't recall the title.
>
> Look at the bibliography of the Wiki entry mentioned below: does it ring
> any
> bells?
>
>
>> About Dick Moore, we had all of his books at _American Machinist_, so I
>> don't recall that one, either. I think it was either one of his first,
>> about
>> jig borers, or the late one by his son Wayne, titled _The Foundations of
>> Mechanical Accuracy_.
>
> I think I have read this one. A coworker lent me a copy. It's still in
> print,
> sold by Moore, but at an astonishing price.
>
>
> Joe Gwinn
>
>
>> > Johannson's patent is from 1907 or so.
>> >
>> > For a nice description of how such things were done 100 years ago, see
>> > ³Accurate
>> > Tool Work², Goodrich and Stanley, First Edition, Eighth Impression,
>> > McGraw-Hill
>> > 1912, 217 pages. The last two chapters are on the then recently
>> > invented
>> > Johansson Blocks, with microinch precision
>> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_block>.
>> >
>> > Joe Gwinn

That book sounds familiar; I think I read it around 30 years ago. However,
that's not the book that had the Johannson story I'm talking about. That
book had a title that said something about the history of metrology. Sorry,
it's not coming back to me.

You're reminding me that I have to call McGraw-Hill in New York and find out
what happened to all of the old metalworking books they had in their
library. M-H sold _American Machinist_ to Penton Publishing sometime in the
'80s, but the books that had been accumulated in the corporate library via
AM may still be there. Probably not, though, because M-H no longer owns any
metalworking magazines.

I'll call and check.

--
Ed Huntress

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:34 pm
From: Joseph Gwinn

In article <4ba04c62$0$22532$607ed4bc@cv.net>,
"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:

> "Joseph Gwinn" <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:joegwinn-1010AA.22591216032010@news.giganews.com...
> > In article <4ba005a5$0$21623$607ed4bc@cv.net>,
> > "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
> >
> >> "Joseph Gwinn" <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >> news:joegwinn-15C75C.00172516032010@news.giganews.com...
> >> > In article <4b9ef343$0$22515$607ed4bc@cv.net>,
> >> > "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "anorton" <anorton@removethis.ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> >> >> news:kIudnUtybYMNSAPWnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@earthlink.com...
> >> >> >
> >> > [snip]
> >> >>
> >> >> > I am hardly an expert, but I do have a Lapmaster-12 machine in my
> >> >> > garage.
> >> >> > Optical engineering is my profession and I want to convert it to
> >> >> > polish
> >> >> > glass.
> >> >>
> >> >> Now, there's a machine that you won't find in many hobby shops. <g>
> >> >> For
> >> >> some
> >> >> reason, I've always found lapping to be interesting.
> >> >>
> >> >> I remember reading the account of Johannson <sp?> making his first set
> >> >> of
> >> >> gage blocks, and some years later, Dick Moore making his first set on
> >> >> his
> >> >> kitchen table, lapping them by hand.
> >> >
> >> > These accounts would be interesting. Do you recall where you saw them?
> >>
> >> The account of Johannson was in a book I borrowed from Mitutoyo's
> >> collection. It was a rare book -- I don't recall the title.
> >
> > Look at the bibliography of the Wiki entry mentioned below: does it ring
> > any
> > bells?
> >
> >
> >> About Dick Moore, we had all of his books at _American Machinist_, so I
> >> don't recall that one, either. I think it was either one of his first,
> >> about
> >> jig borers, or the late one by his son Wayne, titled _The Foundations of
> >> Mechanical Accuracy_.
> >
> > I think I have read this one. A coworker lent me a copy. It's still in
> > print,
> > sold by Moore, but at an astonishing price.
> >
> >
> > Joe Gwinn
> >
> >
> >> > Johannson's patent is from 1907 or so.
> >> >
> >> > For a nice description of how such things were done 100 years ago, see
> >> > ³Accurate
> >> > Tool Work², Goodrich and Stanley, First Edition, Eighth Impression,
> >> > McGraw-Hill
> >> > 1912, 217 pages. The last two chapters are on the then recently
> >> > invented
> >> > Johansson Blocks, with microinch precision
> >> > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gauge_block>.
> >> >
> >> > Joe Gwinn
>
> That book sounds familiar; I think I read it around 30 years ago. However,
> that's not the book that had the Johannson story I'm talking about. That
> book had a title that said something about the history of metrology. Sorry,
> it's not coming back to me.
>
> You're reminding me that I have to call McGraw-Hill in New York and find out
> what happened to all of the old metalworking books they had in their
> library. M-H sold _American Machinist_ to Penton Publishing sometime in the
> '80s, but the books that had been accumulated in the corporate library via
> AM may still be there. Probably not, though, because M-H no longer owns any
> metalworking magazines.
>
> I'll call and check.

Thanks,

Joe Gwinn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Engine bore measurements - update
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/36b58dee016a3a28?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:35 pm
From: John

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:29:44 +0000, Christopher Tidy
<cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> wrote:

>bw wrote:
>
>> Ring end gap is not as important as face gap. Your top ring gap is out of
>> spec, but might work ok in a demo engine. There might be other problems, but
>> you could try to just break the bore glaze with a light hone. That will
>> allow the rings to reset with load. Some people might just put in new rings
>> and hope for the best, but a good engine man with experience should give you
>> a second opinion. I'd take the engine to a shop and get is properly measured
>> to see if new rings would seat properly. Then you need to consider an
>> oversize piston and re-bore.
>
>Can anyone tell me what a typical end gap for 80 mm piston rings is,
>assuming the engine is in top condition?
>
>Chris

I hate to be snippy but Google IS your friend. Try

http://www.aa1car.com/library/ring_end_gap.htm

for a fairly complete discussion of piston rings.
the usual caveat applies: check the manufacturer's recommendations (if
available).

John B.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Polishing nonwoven wheel for buffers
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/77836da16e55925f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:36 pm
From: Ned Simmons

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:33:06 -0500, Ignoramus25445
<ignoramus25445@NOSPAM.25445.invalid> wrote:

>I have a polishing nonvowen wheel on my grinder, that is quite amazing
>in its ability to polish metal objects. It is some sort of a nonwoven,
>maybe nylon wheel. It is almost completely worn, however, and has no
>markings left. Does anyone know what sorts of wheels can be purchased
>as a replacement? Maybe 3M EXL wheels, as it seems to be.

Scotchbrite 7S Fine Light Deburring wheel is good for general purpose
polishing. 8S and 9S are OK, too, just a bit harder.

McMaster p/n 46575A73 is probably a 7S, which would make the next two
in the catalog 8S and 9S.

--
Ned Simmons

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 9:33 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Ignoramus25445" <ignoramus25445@NOSPAM.25445.invalid> wrote in message
news:_t6dnaa2C9DPrD3WnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>I have a polishing nonvowen wheel on my grinder, that is quite amazing
> in its ability to polish metal objects. It is some sort of a nonwoven,
> maybe nylon wheel. It is almost completely worn, however, and has no
> markings left. Does anyone know what sorts of wheels can be purchased
> as a replacement? Maybe 3M EXL wheels, as it seems to be.
>
> i

I think you want a "Hard Felt Wheel", a jewelry supply or about $20 on EBay.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 9:35 pm
From: Ignoramus25445

On 2010-03-17, Buerste <buerste@buerste.com> wrote:
>
> "Ignoramus25445" <ignoramus25445@NOSPAM.25445.invalid> wrote in message
> news:_t6dnaa2C9DPrD3WnZ2dnUVZ_sudnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>I have a polishing nonvowen wheel on my grinder, that is quite amazing
>> in its ability to polish metal objects. It is some sort of a nonwoven,
>> maybe nylon wheel. It is almost completely worn, however, and has no
>> markings left. Does anyone know what sorts of wheels can be purchased
>> as a replacement? Maybe 3M EXL wheels, as it seems to be.
>
> I think you want a "Hard Felt Wheel", a jewelry supply or about $20 on EBay.

What I want, is the exact same wheel I have now, except new and not
completely worn like mine. The wheel works almost like a miracle.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Machining falling block passage Re: Source for 4340 bar stock?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/670786a6a14e58b2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:46 pm
From: John

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:15:26 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
<huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:

>
>"John" <johnbslocomb@invalid.com> wrote in message
>news:17qup554m66ats0p10vdceo8mgjhs2uekt@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:31:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
>> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"F. George McDuffee" <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
>>>news:ksotp5pn3s0hjqkbjslsk2ale6el0tak06@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:59:59 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
>>>> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>>>>> I'd start with wirecut EDM, leaving about 0.005" on
>>>>>each side, and finish with a shaper and lapping.
>>>> <snip>
>>>> How about making everything slightly undersize and the applying
>>>> Moglice or Turcite for the final fit-up. Should be a very slick
>>>> action and if the Moglice is only a few thousandths thick the
>>>> compression should be tolerable. Anyone know how Moglice/Turcite
>>>> is for impact loads? If it works on ultrahigh speed million
>>>> dollar machine tools, it should work on an small bore rifle
>>>> action.
>>>
>>>I really doubt if they'd handle that kind of pressure, George. Their
>>>compression strength for those loaded plastics really isn't very high. If
>>>you figure 40,000 psi over the cartridge head, and then translate that to
>>>the specific load imposed by the back of the block against the receiver,
>>>it's still quite high. It probably would pound the block back over time.
>>>
>>>We tend to think of big cartridges as being harder for an action to
>>>handle,
>>>but the fact is that small, high-intensity cartridges typically develop
>>>more
>>>pressure. Then the size of the cartridge base enters into it. But for
>>>specific loads (psi), small, hot ones can be a problem.
>>>
>>>.22 Hornet typically doesn't develop a lot of pressure. But a K-Hornet
>>>can.
>>
>>
>> Didn't P.O. Ackley do some tests of forces applied to the breechblock?
>> I seem to remember having read something in one of his books. Seems to
>> me that they took a Winchester lever action, 92? 94? and tested it. If
>> I remember the final test was to remove the locking blocks and fire.
>> The bold staid close.
>>
>> I have the feeling that the test might have been in support of his
>> "improved" wildcats with much straighter case walls but it was
>> interesting.
>>
>> Of I have alzimers :-)
>
>I don't remember Ackley's writings. It was too long ago for me. I do
>remember the .218 Improved Bee and the .17 Ackley Hornet. They were two of
>the crazy wildcats that I was nuts about when I was a kid.

Yes, a long time ago, which is why I "seemed to remember".

One of the reasons I liked Ackley's writing was that he was, perhaps,
the ultimate pragmatist. When some writer took him to task, saying
that the only way his "improved" cartridges obtained their higher
velocity was by using higher pressures. Ackley replied saying that the
average gun owner cared only that they (1) got higher velocities, and
(2) the bolt stayed in the rifle. Which I suspect is nearly a
universal truth.

John B.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 9:01 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"John" <johnbslocomb@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:5nj0q5pv375sabjq486tjdu7cpou32sfo7@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:15:26 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"John" <johnbslocomb@invalid.com> wrote in message
>>news:17qup554m66ats0p10vdceo8mgjhs2uekt@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 22:31:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
>>> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"F. George McDuffee" <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
>>>>news:ksotp5pn3s0hjqkbjslsk2ale6el0tak06@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:59:59 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
>>>>> <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>> I'd start with wirecut EDM, leaving about 0.005" on
>>>>>>each side, and finish with a shaper and lapping.
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>> How about making everything slightly undersize and the applying
>>>>> Moglice or Turcite for the final fit-up. Should be a very slick
>>>>> action and if the Moglice is only a few thousandths thick the
>>>>> compression should be tolerable. Anyone know how Moglice/Turcite
>>>>> is for impact loads? If it works on ultrahigh speed million
>>>>> dollar machine tools, it should work on an small bore rifle
>>>>> action.
>>>>
>>>>I really doubt if they'd handle that kind of pressure, George. Their
>>>>compression strength for those loaded plastics really isn't very high.
>>>>If
>>>>you figure 40,000 psi over the cartridge head, and then translate that
>>>>to
>>>>the specific load imposed by the back of the block against the receiver,
>>>>it's still quite high. It probably would pound the block back over time.
>>>>
>>>>We tend to think of big cartridges as being harder for an action to
>>>>handle,
>>>>but the fact is that small, high-intensity cartridges typically develop
>>>>more
>>>>pressure. Then the size of the cartridge base enters into it. But for
>>>>specific loads (psi), small, hot ones can be a problem.
>>>>
>>>>.22 Hornet typically doesn't develop a lot of pressure. But a K-Hornet
>>>>can.
>>>
>>>
>>> Didn't P.O. Ackley do some tests of forces applied to the breechblock?
>>> I seem to remember having read something in one of his books. Seems to
>>> me that they took a Winchester lever action, 92? 94? and tested it. If
>>> I remember the final test was to remove the locking blocks and fire.
>>> The bold staid close.
>>>
>>> I have the feeling that the test might have been in support of his
>>> "improved" wildcats with much straighter case walls but it was
>>> interesting.
>>>
>>> Of I have alzimers :-)
>>
>>I don't remember Ackley's writings. It was too long ago for me. I do
>>remember the .218 Improved Bee and the .17 Ackley Hornet. They were two of
>>the crazy wildcats that I was nuts about when I was a kid.
>
>
> Yes, a long time ago, which is why I "seemed to remember".
>
> One of the reasons I liked Ackley's writing was that he was, perhaps,
> the ultimate pragmatist. When some writer took him to task, saying
> that the only way his "improved" cartridges obtained their higher
> velocity was by using higher pressures. Ackley replied saying that the
> average gun owner cared only that they (1) got higher velocities, and
> (2) the bolt stayed in the rifle. Which I suspect is nearly a
> universal truth.
>
> John B.

Did you ever read _Twenty-Two Caliber Varmint Rifles_, by Landis? I had an
early edition and practically memorized it. That was another book I loaned
out and never got back. Sheesh.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Tap drivin' man (tap driver in AXA holder?)
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/95c6092873398de2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:47 pm
From: ignator

On Mar 16, 8:51 pm, Louis Ohland <ohl...@charter.net> wrote:
> What is the common wisdom on the results of using a tap in a tap
> driver on a lathe? Assuming the gears are correct, could you use the feed?

I've done it using the tail stock (with 3 jaw chuck), and putting the
lathe in back gear. I've only tried the quick change for long boring
bars, but never a tap. Tell me how you know it's perfectly concentric
both vertical and horizontal?
ignator

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 9:57 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Louis Ohland" <ohland@charter.net> wrote in message
news:BsXnn.101625$Ye4.48108@newsfe11.iad...
> What is the common wisdom on the results of using a tap in a tap driver
> on a lathe? Assuming the gears are correct, could you use the feed?

I will often put a tap in a drill chuck but not very tight and leave the
tailstock loose. Great for starting a tap. I have a tapping head in a
turret lathe that will spin the tap before breaking it and it's spring
loaded to compensate for feed.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 10:40 pm
From: Don Foreman

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:51:16 -0500, Louis Ohland <ohland@charter.net>
wrote:

> What is the common wisdom on the results of using a tap in a tap
>driver on a lathe? Assuming the gears are correct, could you use the feed?

You can, but a tap once started pulls the tail stock along just fine.
I just sorta bonk the tailstock-mounted tap into the hole with the
lathe running. The tap catches and the hole gets threaded. Problem
with using power drive on the tap is if the stock slips rotationally
in the chuck or collet then the tap must drive the stock axially in
the headstock workholder or something must get barfed up or break.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Brake Pad options
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/411e47c7b9953b40?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:13 pm
From: "Paul Hovnanian P.E."

Ned Simmons wrote:
>
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:09:45 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
> <paul@hovnanian.com> wrote:
>
> >>>Ned Simmons wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm working on a fail safe brake along the lines of an elevator safety
> >>>> brake -- it will prevent a heavy load from falling if the supporting
> >>>> roller chain breaks.
> >
> >Could this safety engage while the load is moving? Or just lock it once it
> >has stopped? That's going to make a big difference in the design,
> >particularly if it is moving at a pretty good rate.
>
> It will only engage if some part of the lifting gear fails

There's a considerable amount of difference between locking the load in
place once it has come to a stop and having the lifting gear fail (cable
or chain break) if this load is already descending at a pretty good
clip.

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you,
then you win. -Gandhi

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:50 pm
From: Ned Simmons

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 18:40:36 -0600, "Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net>
wrote:

>
>Ned Simmons wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:34:07 -0500, Ned Simmons <news@nedsim.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I'm working on a fail safe brake...
>>
>> Thanks to everyone who responded. I still have to do some tweaking and
>> check proportions and strengths of the various components, but this
>> should be pretty close.
>>
>> If the chain goes slack: the stack of Belleville washers (magenta)
>> pulls the chain rod (gray) down; as the collar on the rod (gray) falls
>> the arm (green) rotates CW; allowing the torsion spring to rotate the
>> collar (gray) CCW; the pawl (green) rotates along with the collar and
>> engages the slotted track (orange).
>>
>> http://www.suscom-maine.net/~nsimmons/news/SafetyStopIso_100316a.jpg
>> http://www.suscom-maine.net/~nsimmons/news/SafetyStopBack_100316a.jpg
>>
>> --
>> Ned Simmons
>
>Looks good. Not sure where the chains are attaching, but you may want to
>look at the lower spring loaded one and see if it should be a rigid
>mount, i.e. not spring loaded with different types of springs at each
>connection point.

The chain runs in a loop, with the drive sprocket overhead and an
idler at the bottom. The bottom spring protects the drive if the car
overtravels in the down direction as a result of operator error or a
control malfunction. The normal down position is about 1/2" over the
floor. The spring allows the chain drive a couple extra inches of
travel before the frame starts to lift if the car bottoms out on the
floor.

And thanks for aiming me at the garage lifts.

--
Ned Simmons

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 8:54 pm
From: Ned Simmons

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:38:35 -0700 (PDT), "pdrahn@coinet.com"
<co_farmer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Mar 16, 1:56 pm, Ned Simmons <n...@nedsim.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:34:07 -0500, Ned Simmons <n...@nedsim.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >I'm working on a fail safe brake...
>>
>> Thanks to everyone who responded. I still have to do some tweaking and
>> check proportions and strengths of the various components, but this
>> should be pretty close.
>>
>> If the chain goes slack: the stack of Belleville washers (magenta)
>> pulls the chain rod (gray) down; as the collar on the rod (gray) falls
>> the arm (green) rotates CW; allowing the torsion spring to rotate the
>> collar (gray) CCW; the pawl (green) rotates along with the collar and
>> engages the slotted track (orange).
>>
>> http://www.suscom-maine.net/~nsimmons/news/SafetyStopIso_100316a.jpghttp://www.suscom-maine.net/~nsimmons/news/SafetyStopBack_100316a.jpg
>>
>> --
>> Ned Simmons
>
>Looks like a good solution. You might think of making the lower
>portion of the threaded rod as smooth as it can be. If the chain
>breaks it is likely to fly away and pull the threaded rod into a bind.
>A smooth, lubricated rod would probably not bind if pulled sideways.

That one of the required tweaks -- the originals are made from alloy
threaded rod, and I just lengthened one for the layout. The new ones
will need to have only enough thread on the lower end to adjust the
chains.

--
Ned Simmons

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Robo Plow, cool metal project
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/735f99871efbe5eb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 9:00 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:32:03 -0500, the infamous Randy
<rbraun333@enter.net> scrawled the following:

>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tPg1ZMiC9pA

Uh, Randy. That's _exactly_ the same link I posted 6 days ago.
;-/

--
No matter how cynical you are, it is impossible to keep up.
--Lily Tomlin

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 9:34 pm
From: Steve Ackman

In <bsk0q5po6bcr2ue6a3ck83sf6255prtfq8@4ax.com>, on Tue, 16 Mar 2010
21:00:08 -0700, Larry Jaques, ljaques@diversify.invalid wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:32:03 -0500, the infamous Randy

>>http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tPg1ZMiC9pA

> Uh, Randy. That's _exactly_ the same link I posted 6 days ago.
> ;-/

Yeah, but you posted it under the wrong subject/thread!
;-)

--
☯☯

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Band Saw gear box
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/b8c85c52acf0aff7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 9:37 pm
From: "Buerste"

I have a 6x9 Johnson and the gear box is howling a bit. Is there a source
for parts that you know of? Or, do I get to buy a new saw?

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 10:45 pm
From: Don Foreman

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:37:22 -0400, "Buerste" <buerste@buerste.com>
wrote:

>I have a 6x9 Johnson and the gear box is howling a bit. Is there a source
>for parts that you know of? Or, do I get to buy a new saw?

Having a 6x9 Johnson could indeed result in howling boxes. Perhaps
you should forget about brushes and consider a career in porn flicks.
Or was that 6x9 millimeters? <G>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 10:58 pm
From: stans4@prolynx.com

On Mar 16, 10:37 pm, "Buerste" <buer...@buerste.com> wrote:
> I have a 6x9 Johnson and the gear box is howling a bit. Is there a source
> for parts that you know of? Or, do I get to buy a new saw?

Never heard of the make. Have you popped the cover on it to see
what's floating around? My dad had a 4x6 that did that, had to
replace the worm, gear and pulley-end ball bearing because the worm
disintegrated and all the flotsam gravitated to the unshielded
bearing. If you bought it retail, check the retailer for parts.
Otherwise google is your friend. Might be some other import is close
enough you can swap parts, Grizzly, Enco or HF might be places to
check. If it's not too far gone, you could probably replace the
bearing(s) and clean up the worm and wheel enough to at least cut the
noise level down. My dad's had galling going on, probably from bad
lube combined with improper material pair on the worm and wheel, big
lumps torn out of both parts. Were both steel, the replacement had a
hardened wheel and bronze worm. Replace the lube with some rear-end
lube from the car parts place, plenty of high-pressure zinc additive
in that stuff.

Stan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mighty Casey
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/4b5a948387a7bd48?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 9:42 pm
From: "Steve B"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPAUFU5jn6M

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 10:58 pm
From: Don Foreman

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 21:42:50 -0700, "Steve B" <newid@nowhere.com>
wrote:

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPAUFU5jn6M
>
Excellent satire, done with humor and no vulgarity at all.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Metal Burrs...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/65a5a7919b9f1464?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 9:52 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Joe AutoDrill" <autodrill@yunx.com> wrote in message
news:0Nwnn.73254$1n5.54058@newsfe04.iad...
> Opinion gathering...
>
> We were discussing why there is a larger burr on the back side of a
> manually drilled hole in materials like steel or stainless VS aluminum or
> brass.
>
> My theory is that the material is harder and requires more thrust and thus
> "breaks" or "shears" earlier and leaves a heavier burr because of it.
>
> Agreements, differing opinions, misc. ramblings?
>
> Regards,
> Joe Agro, Jr.
> (800) 871-5022
> 01.908.542.0244
> Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
> Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
> Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
> Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
> VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill
>
> V8013-R
>
>
>

Nearing the far side of the material, the force on the bit overcomes the
threshold of plastic deformation and the material deforms rather than cuts.
When you think about it, drilling is a violent operation. You're driving a
wedge into the material and ripping it apart...hopefully in a controlled
way. It's the same with wood. From the few holes I've drilled in wood,
I've learned how to modify my cutting configuration and control the material
and prevent the break-out or burr with a back-up to the material.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Porta Band Saw blades. Lenox vs. Milwaukie
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/947f7ff31158a750?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 10:01 pm
From: Don Foreman

On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:52:30 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
<presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

>Pirate <over40pirate.aol.com@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I lucked into a PorterCable Porta Band Saw for $10 at a yard sale :-)
>> Locally I can get Milwaukie or Lenox blades for it. They are from
>> Lowes and HD, and I don't know the model #'s of the Lenox blades.
>> Any experience out there on either blades?
>> Also tooth count? I will mostly be cutting 1/8" to 1/4" steel.
>> Thanks
>
>The lennox variable pitch blades are pretty exciting.

I've been very satisfied with the Milwaukee blades. They recommend a
14/18 blade for 5/32" to 5/16". It doesn't take much of an angle to
make the cut 5/32" when cutting 1/8" stock. The recommended blade for
up to 5/32 (which includes 1/8) is 24 tpi. The downside of using that
in 1/4" stock is just that it cuts more slowly than a 14/18.

The Lenox blades may be just as good, I've not tried them.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 11:13 pm
From: Don Foreman

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 00:01:19 -0500, Don Foreman
<dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:

>On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 20:52:30 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
><presence@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:
>
>>Pirate <over40pirate.aol.com@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I lucked into a PorterCable Porta Band Saw for $10 at a yard sale :-)
>>> Locally I can get Milwaukie or Lenox blades for it. They are from
>>> Lowes and HD, and I don't know the model #'s of the Lenox blades.
>>> Any experience out there on either blades?
>>> Also tooth count? I will mostly be cutting 1/8" to 1/4" steel.
>>> Thanks
>>
>>The lennox variable pitch blades are pretty exciting.
>
>I've been very satisfied with the Milwaukee blades. They recommend a
>14/18 blade for 5/32" to 5/16". It doesn't take much of an angle to
>make the cut 5/32" when cutting 1/8" stock. The recommended blade for
>up to 5/32 (which includes 1/8) is 24 tpi. The downside of using that
>in 1/4" stock is just that it cuts more slowly than a 14/18.

I forgot to note that most of my work is also 1/8" to 1/4" steel, and
the blade I have in my saw most days is a Milwaukee 14/18. I've worn
out several considerably more expensive blades on my vertical bandsaw
but haven't yet worn out a Milwaukee blade.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DIY Two-Stroke Engine Construction Methods
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7e49cf5c0ea97580?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Mar 16 2010 11:32 pm
From: Tim Wescott

durabol wrote:
> Thanks for the responses.
>
> -I planned to have one carburetor (and crankcase) for both cylinders.
>
> -I have access to a lathe and a milling machine but I don't have that
> much experience with them so I'll have to learn as I go or get someone
> else to do the machining
>
> -I do plan to build the engine in a modular way so I suppose I could
> add more cylinders.
>
> -I do have some experience with lost wax casting although not with
> much success. The engine casting that I had envisioned may be too
> complicated for the simple gravity casting techniques I was planning.
> I also worry about hot tears of the cylinder as the aluminium cools
> and casting decent heat fins.
>
> -For the cylinder I was planning on just an aluminium wall since I
> have heard "cheap" lawn mower engine can get 500h on them. I though
> that the bearings in the engine will probably need to be replaced in a
> few hundred hours anyways, so the bore could be resized then.

With some pretty fancy metallurgy you can use an aluminum cylinder wall.
It's how the Chevy Vega was done, and it worked great -- except when
it didn't.

There are other treatments that'll let you run a 'plain' aluminum
cylinder -- but none of them are simple, that I know of.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

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Tuesday, March 16, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 12 topics - digest

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