twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 14 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Relocating a underwater machine shop? was Manufacturing is BOOMING in
USA
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c816c7bd5e73ce02?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 6:56 pm
From: Gunner Asch

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 19:18:51 -0600, F. George McDuffee
<gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:

>On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 16:35:51 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:
><snip>
>> Which leads me to the question, how long would it take to rig such
>>an enterprise onto transportation to another location, one which might
>>be considered more business friendly?
><snip>
>=========
>While governmental/community attitude may be a part of the
>problem, from what I can tell from the auction listings, a much
>larger problem is the prevalence of obsolete/obsolescent
>machinery which are most likely not worth the money to move for a
>high volume commercial operation. Even if the equipment is in
>pristine condition, if it is a generation (or more) old, quite
>likely it is not worth moving to a new commercial location.
>
>When a shop is filled with obsolete and/or "clapped out"
>equipment, the odds are very high that the front office is
>similarly "equipped," e.g. no CRM [customer relations management
>software], no production scheduling software, no P/M software, no
>A/R-A/P (accounts payable-accounts receivable software), no job
>costing/tracking software, no or minimal CNC/cad software,
>minimal tool crib controls, slow or no internet connections, no
>web page, etc.
>
>It may be possible to cherry pick from several shops and assemble
>a decent commercial operation, but there is a reason that the
>bankrupt shops went bankrupt.

Unfortunately..most (of what Ive seen so far) of the shops that went
bankrupt here in California..was that their clients went tits up first.

But you do make a good point.

Gunner

>
>
>Unka George (George McDuffee)
>..............................
>The past is a foreign country;
>they do things differently there.
>L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
>The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 7:53 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 22:36:43 +0200, the infamous "Steve Lusardi"
<stevenospam@lusardi.de> scrawled the following:

>Iggy,
>I'm amazed by your statement. When was the last time any product in the stores said "Made in the USA"? There is virtually no
>serious manufacturing left in the States. You don't need statistics to witness this and in point of fact, without seeing US
>products on the shelves, you have absolutely no justification for believing them. The same thing is happening in Europe and Japan.
>We have already exported almost all of our manufacturing to the third world to remain competitive in the world market. Don't
>believe the shit you read....look on the shelves.

Steve, I dare you to spend an hour in Walmart and NOT find at least a
hundred "Made in the USA" stickers on items. Manufacturing is still
alive and well here, but the mass production has gone entirely
overseas. Other companies are having things produced elsewhere and
assembled here, with our labor.

Virtually ALL of the small, custom items are still made here. Much
low-volume/high-technology stuff is made here, etc.

Don't write us off entirely.

Hell, my glare guards are made here in Oregon...by me, using as many
domestic products as possible. www.diversify.com/shades2.html
Volume? We won't discuss that. <sigh>

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 7:56 pm
From: Hawke

On 4/1/2010 11:37 AM, Pete C. wrote:
>
> Hawke wrote:
>>
>> On 4/1/2010 10:28 AM, Ignoramus23298 wrote:
>>> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303960604575157701739806306.html
>>>
>>> Manufacturing Expands World-Wide
>>>
>>> Best month of activity in USA in six years, makes my search for an
>>> investment in a warehouse, possibly, even too late, although
>>> realistically I still have a chance. My own opinion, mostly based on
>>> liquidation auction prices for equipment that is usable in modern
>>> production (as opposed to clapped out 50 year old manual lathes), is
>>> that we are about to see sharp economic growth.
>>>
>>> U.S. factory operators saw their best month of activity in nearly six
>>> years during March. The Institute for Supply Management reported
>>> Thursday that its index of manufacturing activity for March moved to a
>>> reading of 59.6, from 56.5 the month before and 58.4 in
>>> January. March's level was above the 57.0 economists had expected to
>>> see, and it was the highest reading since July 2004. Readings over 50
>>> indicate growth.
>>>
>>> I do think that "Obama haters" , who succumbed to pessimism because of
>>> who is in the White House, are making a big mistake in not recognizing
>>> that this country has every potential to be a great economic and
>>> industrial machine. We are now in a bull stock market by any standard,
>>> and are seeing improvements in both growth and productivity. If this
>>> continues, the United States will see a lot of incremental tax
>>> revenues from additional economic activity and capital gains, and that
>>> alone could be a big help to reduce budget deficit.
>>>
>>> "Obama policies", which anyone should be free to like or not like, do
>>> not fundamentally change the fact that we are a dynamic, capitalist
>>> economy. In fact, availability of health insurance may help someone to
>>> move towards self-employment.
>>>
>>> i
>>
>> Don't try to tell right wingers that anything Obama is doing is working,
>> is good policy, is successful, or is the right thing to do. They
>> continue to believe in the tried and failed policies that Bush and the
>> republicans stand for, and that they put in place when Bush was
>> president. What's scary is that they want another chance to implement
>> the exact same failed policies again. They have simply not learned that
>> what they believed was wrong. So don't try to tell them Obama's way of
>> doing things is good. They won't hear of it. They're wedded to failed
>> policies and that's that. Now the rest of the normal people are all
>> starting to see what you see and what I have already said before, things
>> are turning around and we are beginning a new phase of positive economic
>> growth. Just be happy we're coming out of the Bush debacle and are
>> moving ahead once again and make some moves that allow you to profit
>> from seeing the obvious.
>>
>> Hawke
>
> Unfortunately, nobody left or right can admit when their policies have
> failed, and mostly nobody can even correlate their policies and the
> actual results since there is such a long lag time before they typically
> have any effect. This is of course why everything is cyclic.

I agree with you that political parties don't want to admit when their
policies fail. But that is why you don't go to them if you want to know
if they succeeded or failed. You look at the facts and statistics. Just
look at the economic statistics under Bush. You don't have to ask anyone
if they are good or not. It's obvious they are horrible. Now you have to
give Obama the time to see if his are any good. He's been there a little
more than a year. A year ago the stock market was at 6600 and the growth
rate was -6%, and unemployment was around 10%. Needless to say, things
are much better. Just look at the stats. But Obama needs more time
before you can actually credit him for the turn around. Usually it takes
at least 2 or 3 years to see how your policies work. By 2011 or 2012
we're really know how Obama did. But I know that no matter how poorly or
how well he does it'll be better than Bush.

Hawke

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 7:58 pm
From: Hawke

>>> Unfortunately, nobody left or right can admit when their policies have
>>> failed, and mostly nobody can even correlate their policies and the
>>> actual results since there is such a long lag time before they typically
>>> have any effect. This is of course why everything is cyclic.
>>
>> Of course there's lag time.
>> The Bush policies are finally starting to yield positive results.
>> Of course, BHO's lackeys won't be giving Bush credit.
>
> Just one question here: Are you completely out of your freaking mind?
>

I was just wondering why he wasn't giving Reagan the credit for the
positive results.

Hawke

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 8:06 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 16:07:52 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus23298
<ignoramus23298@NOSPAM.23298.invalid> scrawled the following:

>On 2010-04-01, Hawke <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote:

What the hell are you quoting HIM for?

>I thin that being as partisan as you are, leads to making the same
>mistakes as what the "Obama haters" are making, which is failure to
>consider reality due to too much prejudices.

Your term "Obama haters" isn't quite correct. Most of us don't hate
the man himself, we dislike what he stands for: liberalism, bigotry
(as affirmative action), and socialism/HUGE government.

>The reality is that, Obama or not, the United States is built on a
>flexible, and solid, foundation of free enterprise, relative fairness,
>competition and well honest educated, labor force with great work
>ethic.

Except where unions and greed (or do I repeat myself?) come in, that's
very true.

>What Bush administration and most everyone else missed, was that due
>to proliferation of shadow banking, the economy was again susceptible
>to banking panics.

So our Chief puts the guy responsible for that in charge of the
treasury. <sigh>

>Where the Federal Reserve and Obama administration succeeded, is in
>credibly convincing the markets that they will not allow a Depression
>style calamity, no matter what deficit they would need to run. That
>worked and our economy is returning to sensible functioning.

Gee, that's good to hear, Ig. Saaaay, I'd like to sell you some
warehouse space in the Everglades. Got a minute?

>The administration of President Bush gets some, but very little,
>credit for this.
>
>In any case, I urge everyone to thin more about the future than about
>the past. What is the likely fture that awaits us, what are the
>dangers or risks, etc.

Oh, we are, Ig. We are!

>My expectation is for a general recovery and decent growth and modest
>reduction of unemployment rate. That should help bring deficits closer
>to sustainable levels.

What's Obama got to do with that? He is, if anything, slowing it with
his spending policies. Shrub's guilty of that, too. <big sigh>

>With all of this in mind, and the prices where I hope to be, I would
>hope be able to find some little industrial style investment of my
>own. What I do not plan on doing is speculating on currencies,
>interest rates, and other things. I also do not plan on leveraging
>myself in a dangerous way.

Good to hear.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Insurance claim....
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6a2e038156446545?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 7:02 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 18:38:19 -0400, the infamous "cshenk"
<cshenk1@cox.net> scrawled the following:

>In my area, they do not give an adjustment without several estimates first
>from contractors. This may be 'state law' related. Oh they had a figure for
>general use but it had variation. They were very happy for example that we
>had a buddy who did windows cheaper as they were about to cut a check for
>1500$ but ended up with 507$. I got a 'for a friend' rate.

In most states, the insurance company may want you to get several
estimates, but you can get the work done by whomever you wish and
they'll pay the quoted price.

>>>> What happens if damage is later encountered that the adjuster didn't
>>>> see?
>>>> Recourse? How to handle? War stories??
>
>Normally you can go back in a case like that for added adjustment.

And in half the cases, it's paid.

>My case of dealing with them was both good and bad. I use State Farm. I had
>horrendous damage from renters. Easily $50,000 plus if all contracted and
>$25,000 of it was beyond our DIY level. The company worked with me hard to
>make it meet the rules to get us $507 as the rest was just impossible with
>my contract.

When I wrenched for a body shop, their nickname for State Farm was
"Snake Farm". I understood that they slithered out from under
payments to the insured whenever they could and used underhanded
techniques to force them to settle for less. A few people fought back
and easily won. I've avoided Snake Farm since then.

>Damages have to be filed for in a reasonable time and you have
>to tie them to an event. With us living in Japan, they picked out a wind
>storm and pretended the 2 windows were damaged by it. Clearly impossible as
>one was broken from the *inside* and the outer
>pane was fine and the picture window that was propped in place with a 4x4
>clearly showed it also was busted out from the inside of the house.

That sucks!

>The difference is you have a claimable storm and are able to make the claim.

That does help, except in incidences like Katrina, where half the
South was torn up and dozens of insurance companies went belly up in a
heartbeat.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 8:25 pm
From: "benick"

"h" <tmclone@searchmachine.com> wrote in message
news:hp3am0$e9g$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>
> "Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:lU8tn.35927$ao7.2919@newsfe21.iad...
>> Tim Wescott wrote:
>>> Sanity wrote:
>>>>
>> Hmm,
>> Allstate was the WORST I ever dealt with. Yhey treat their customer in
>> need of coverage like a criminal. In my will, I told my kids not to deal
>> with Allstate EVER!, LOL.
>
> Interesting. My experience with Allstate was great, and it was Amica who
> treated me like a criminal.
>
Never had Allstate but the guy who fell asleep and plowed into my house
wrecking my deck , yard and broken window did...The asshole who showed up to
look at it offered 600 bucks..I told him to get off my property and they
would hear from my lawyer...Several months later just before trial they
settled for the middle bid (2500)of the 3 that I got which is all I wanted
in the begining...It also cost them my lawyer costs but I was without front
steps for several months...

==============================================================================
TOPIC: How to center a chuck ?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8c5bc7ef058db6c5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 7:04 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 17:03:27 -0500, the infamous Wes
<clutch@lycos.com> scrawled the following:

>"azotic" <azotic@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>I got this chuck that i want to use on my logan 12" lathe. While fitting the
>>chuck to the
>>backplate i noticed the chuck does not have a recess on the back side for
>>centering.
>>
>>Any ideas on how to center this chuck so it runs true to my spindle?
>>
>
>That would be scary spinning at 1500 rpm. It will likely be out of balance, round is so
>much safer than that thing spinning away. Just wait until you manage to get hit by a
>spinning edge.
>
>Is this an April fools day joke?

I think so, since that was a steady rest in his pic. ;)

P.S: I hope nobody grounds through the bed and welds a chuck on,
through the gears and bearings.

--
It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent,
but the one most responsive to change.
-- Charles Darwin

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 7:59 pm
From: "azotic"

"Larry Jaques" <ljaques@diversify.invalid> wrote in message
news:44kar5defnm2op381k0lt9c3a2f71cht3i@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 17:03:27 -0500, the infamous Wes
> <clutch@lycos.com> scrawled the following:
>
>>"azotic" <azotic@cox.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I got this chuck that i want to use on my logan 12" lathe. While fitting
>>>the
>>>chuck to the
>>>backplate i noticed the chuck does not have a recess on the back side for
>>>centering.
>>>
>>>Any ideas on how to center this chuck so it runs true to my spindle?
>>>
>>
>>That would be scary spinning at 1500 rpm. It will likely be out of
>>balance, round is so
>>much safer than that thing spinning away. Just wait until you manage to
>>get hit by a
>>spinning edge.
>>
>>Is this an April fools day joke?
>
> I think so, since that was a steady rest in his pic. ;)

Nope not a steady rest. Its a real machining chuck, picked it up at a garage
sale for $10.00.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=4460984&PMT4NO=82924438

Best Regards
Tom.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Would you buy a new Toyota?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/92b2cda20b50e86b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 7:07 pm
From: Nicholas

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 16:55:07 -0800, Dan <dnadan56@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Chief Egalitarian wrote:
>> Serious question. I could probably get a sweet deal. My local Honda
>> dealer says people are trading them in faster than they can handle even
>> 2010's.
>
>Yes. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know how to push in the clutch
>pedal if the engine overrevs...
>
>Actually, there is a glitch in their cruise control algorithm: if you
>pop the tranny out of gear with the CC engaged, the controller revs the
>engine. happens every once in a while when I forget, so I cram in the
>clutch or tap the brake. A bit exciting the first time, but not a cause
>for concern even then.
>
>I EXPECT to get 250K miles out of a Toyota. Maybe a Benz is in the same
>class (as far as life expectancy). Certainly I have no such expectation
>from a Honda (though I could be wrong - we got 220K on an Exploder).
>
>Dan

Years ago, when I was driving a company car (Chevy Cavalier) I had the
same problem while on highway cruise control. I never mentioned it to
anyone because I didn't think they would believe me. It only happened
once.

I was coming up to a Toll Plaza and would have rammed into a bunch of
cars were it not for some quick reflexes on my part.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A new "constitutional right"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8e77e80070fe5b42?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 7:07 pm
From: tankfixer

In article <0fs5r5dbvbh6vrfiqec6m5gnhajjhgoudm@4ax.com>,
Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>
> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:11:00 -0700, tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <mml0r5p29etm2kvp5jgcifq0n9m4k8r5li@4ax.com>,
> >Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
> >>
> >> On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 19:30:36 -0800, tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <a9qvm511bjhp3a8j5ur99kgt312mb5ijjq@4ax.com>,
> >> >Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
> >> >
> >> >> Hence the court had to make new law, right?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >What new law is that ?
> >> >Go ahead and take all the pages you need.
> >>
> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/us/politics/22scotus.html
> >> "Overruling two important precedents about the First Amendment rights of
> >> corporations, ..."
> >> "The decision will be felt most immediately in the coming midterm elections
> >> ..."
> >
> >What new law was that ?
> >You still havn't explained ...
>
> Wingers are always objecting to courts making "new law".
> This case is a perfect example of such.

Yet you can't explain what that "new law" might be even given numerous
opportunities..

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 7:53 pm
From: Lookout

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 20:03:23 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@belsouth.net> wrote:

>
>"Pavlov" <Pavlov@hereboy.com> wrote in message
>news:gsaar5dmepkm05efvhumpcat72qnttb6l0@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 14:19:23 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
>> <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote:
>>
>>>Lookout wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 16:01:54 -0400, "Sid9" <sid9@belsouth.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "RD (The Sandman)" <rdsandman(spamlock)@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Xns9D4D67BA696DFhopewell@216.196.97.130...
>>>>>> "Sid9" <sid9@belsouth.net> wrote in
>>>>>> news:hp0r1g$i6s$1@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Tim Miller" <replytonewsgroup@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:hp0pil$5le$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>>>> Sid9 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> .
>>>> Reagan signed the bill. We just never did it.
>>>> It would save us hundreds of millions of dollars in repackaging costs
>>>> when we ship overseas.
>>>
>>>I thought metrification became the law in the 70's?
>>
>> http://lamar.colostate.edu/~hillger/dates.htm
>> 1988 Reagan
>.
>.
>Did they change speed limit signs? No.
>
>Did they make an issue of it order did they simply go through the motions
>and then tabled it?
>
>The answer should be obvious.
>
>RRRs like the "Good old days" that never were.
>
Agreed. I went no where even though it was signed into law.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 9:58 pm
From: Cliff

On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 19:07:55 -0700, tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com> wrote:

>In article <0fs5r5dbvbh6vrfiqec6m5gnhajjhgoudm@4ax.com>,
>Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>>
>> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:11:00 -0700, tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <mml0r5p29etm2kvp5jgcifq0n9m4k8r5li@4ax.com>,
>> >Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 19:30:36 -0800, tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >In article <a9qvm511bjhp3a8j5ur99kgt312mb5ijjq@4ax.com>,
>> >> >Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hence the court had to make new law, right?
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >What new law is that ?
>> >> >Go ahead and take all the pages you need.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/us/politics/22scotus.html
>> >> "Overruling two important precedents about the First Amendment rights of
>> >> corporations, ..."
>> >> "The decision will be felt most immediately in the coming midterm elections
>> >> ..."
>> >
>> >What new law was that ?
>> >You still havn't explained ...
>>
>> Wingers are always objecting to courts making "new law".
>> This case is a perfect example of such.
>
>Yet you can't explain what that "new law" might be even given numerous
>opportunities..

I can see you never paid attention in class either.
Any class. About anything.

Eighth grade & out (knowing it all)?
At about age 19?
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What's the smoke point of engine oil?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/291f7bda665d5d37?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 7:09 pm
From: "pdrahn@coinet.com"

On Apr 1, 6:14 pm, "op...@hotmail.com" <op...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I've been using engine oil as a coolant for high power resistors but
> am wondering whether something like peanut, sunflower or avocado oil
> would be better. Engine oil gives off an awful smell when it breaks
> down, smells like rotten eggs. Can't find transformer oil. Any
> thoughts?

Yucky things will grow in vegetable oil. May I suggest hydraulic oil?
The only additive is anti-foaming stuff. Hydraulic oil can get really,
really hot before it begins to break down. You are probably smelling
additives in the oil, not the oil itself.

Can your oil move up through the resistors as it gets hot?

Paul

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 7:13 pm
From: "Martin H. Eastburn"

Transmission oil would be much better. It is a heat coolant.

Martin

oparr@hotmail.com wrote:
> I've been using engine oil as a coolant for high power resistors but
> am wondering whether something like peanut, sunflower or avocado oil
> would be better. Engine oil gives off an awful smell when it breaks
> down, smells like rotten eggs. Can't find transformer oil. Any
> thoughts?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Koch Industries and Global Warming
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/eb030ac45e33143f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 7:49 pm
From: Hawke

David Koch is one of the richest men in America. He's a billionaire
ranked as high as the top ten in the country. He's the owner of Koch
Industries, which is the second largest privately held company in the
U.S., Koch Industries produces energy, mainly coal.

He's also the man behind almost all the anti global warming
disinformation you hear. He's spent more than 50 million dollars over
the past 10 years funding nearly 40 different groups that produce anti
global warming "information". That's why it seems like the global
warming deniers appear to be coming from so many different sources. They
are. But they are all getting their financial backing from the same
place, Koch Industries.

When you try to track down actual experts on climate science who don't
believe global warming is a fact it turns out that finding them is darn
near impossible. Of the real climate scientists, they are virtually
unanimous in their belief in global warming. The "scientists" who deny
global warming turn out in nearly every case not to be experts on
climate but are trained in completely different fields, and they are
supported by funders like Koch Industries. So next time you hear someone
denying that global warming exists. Check them out and in the end you
will most likely find they are bought and paid for by Koch Industries.
And that what Koch Industries is doing is exactly the same thing the
tobacco companies did when they denied tobacco was addictive.

Hawke

==============================================================================
TOPIC: SS
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/d4a9f9f2c01744f3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 7:49 pm
From: "Steve B"

Where can I get a comparison chart for stainless steel? I have some knives,
some made out of 440, and some 420. I would like to just know what the
differences are.

Steve

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 8:02 pm
From: Tim Wescott

Steve B wrote:
> Where can I get a comparison chart for stainless steel? I have some knives,
> some made out of 440, and some 420. I would like to just know what the
> differences are.
>
> Steve
>
>
I find matweb.com pretty useful. It's not in charts -- they have sheets
for each material.

Kinda technical. It certainly doesn't have anything like xxx is easier
to harden and makes a tough edge, yyy will never break. But if you're
looking for composition and mechanical properties -- it has that.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - free 78 and 45 ink jet cartriges
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/48c46906d39fbcaa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 8:29 pm
From: "Bill Noble"

from a neighbor's printer that died - seem to have lots of ink in them -
thought they would fit a friend's printer but they don't - pay postage only

--
Bill -
www.wbnoble.com

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 2 2010 9:49 pm
From: jk

"Bill Noble" <nobody@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>from a neighbor's printer that died - seem to have lots of ink in them -
>thought they would fit a friend's printer but they don't - pay postage only
I would gladly take the 45s, the work for my plotter
klessig@suddenlink.net

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What is it? Set 330
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e12dabd3ce5aeeed?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 8:56 pm
From: "DoN. Nichols"

On 2010-04-01, Rob H. <rhvp65@gmail.com> wrote:
> One of the items in this week's set could be considered to be appropriate
> for today's date:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/

Posting from rec.crafts.metalworking as always:

1891) I believe this to be a drum magazine for a Thompson
submachine gun.

O.K. Now I'm *sure*. See:

<http://mikesmachineguns.homestead.com/thompsondrums.html>

and in particular:

http://mikesmachineguns.homestead.com/files/39rd_drum/39_front.JPG

which suggests that this is a 39 round "XL" magazine, not the
larger 50 round drum.

1892) Looks like combs for neatly running three wires parallel.

I've never seen them in person, so I'm just guessing that such
existed somewhen.

1893) From the size and the color, I suspect that this is a link
for something in earthmoving equipment, perhaps a bulldozer to
allow tilting the blade.

1894) For running wire into a groove. Made as a field repair part
after seeing the ones used in the factory I suspect.

1895) The shape looks like a bullet -- perhaps about .30 cal, based
on the scaling from the length. However, this seems too long
for normal muzzle velocities. The cross-drilled tail is to turn
it into a key chain decoration. The material is wrong, though
it might have been a normal bullet which was chrome plated for
the decorative function indicated by the cross-drilling.

1896) This one looks like a the monitors for a CAD workstation, but
I don't see the keyboard, mouse, or digitizing tablet.

It looks to have a coin slot, which might suggest that it is
really used for photocopying in a library. Hmm ... perhaps
a microfiche or microfilm reader with the ability to make copies
of individual pages, which would suggest a library for technical
purposes.

Now to see what others have suggested.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Best Teabagger Moments
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/442bce7caff9a31b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 9:56 pm
From: Cliff

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 18:11:52 -0700, Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 21:23:51 -0500, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>"Chief Egalitarian" <Egal@legal_egal.law> got double secret probation
>for writing:
>
>>
>>
>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>news:h0q5r5pdsnutddp43n3khmpje7g67uno7g@4ax.com...
>>
>>Please keep your homosexual fantasies in rec.crafts.metalworking where they
>>belong. Thanks a bunch!
>
>Leave it to an ignorant wingnut to think Jon Stewart is a homosexual
>fantasy.
>
>Then again, I probably should defer to them on the definition of
>homosexual fantasies.

Probably just a wannbe teabagger anyway.
Aother prime ecample of why the rethugs are dying off due
to inbreeding though.
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Hyperinflation as a goal?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5baf0df42579e249?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 8:59 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"RBnDFW" <burkheimer@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hp36nl$m7c$5@news.eternal-september.org...
> Ed Huntress wrote:
>> "RBnDFW" <burkheimer@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hp2ee3$jrf$2@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yet, my town is loaded with Muslims, mostly East Indian. One is my
>>>> son's best friend. The ones I know are great, generous, hard-working
>>>> people. My cardiologist's name is Muhammed, and he's a laugh a minute.
>>>> <g> I really don't get it.
>>> I do. He's a sleeper agent. Watch your back!
>>
>> <g> And my endocrinologist, until I left him, was named Hussein. He's a
>> friend of my cardiologist, Muhammed. No kidding.
>>
>>>
>>>> Defense is always going to be politically tough, but I'll be right
>>>> behind you. As for cutting federal education contributions, all it will
>>>> do is push the costs onto the states. I really don't see that one
>>>> having legs.
>>> I'm all for that. Education should be a very local issue.
>>> The Feds should have never stuck their nose under that tent.
>>
>> I think it's the opposite. The more local you make school control, the
>> dumber it gets. You won't find local control among any of the countries
>> that beat our kids' pants off on standardized tests.
>
> Then how do home schoolers excel over public-schooled students?
> Doesn't get much more local than that.

If you had one teacher for each one or two student in public school classes,
reacting to each student's learning patterns individually, they'd probably
beat the hell out of home schoolers, too. It would only cost us around
$70,000/student/year.

>
> Most of us on this board got a public school education when local control
> was the rule, and the feds had little influence.
>
> Except for Cliff and a few others, this seems like a smart bunch.

It is a smart bunch. I imagine that, collectively, we'd score well up in
test percentages.

>
> <g> Regarding Texas, when
>> the Democrats in your legislature have to hide out in Oklahoma so the
>> Republicans can't assemble a quorum, you have your share of buffoons,
>> too. d8-)
>
> Unfortunately, the buffoons came back.

<g>

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Bubble of Ignorance
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2990ea519b199327?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 10:03 pm
From: Cliff

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 17:55:02 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 15:38:02 -0700 (PDT), Just Me
><mutantmachinist@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>Actually atheist is lack of belief in a supernatural diety,you don't
>>believe in lack of belief.An Agnostic is basically someone who doesn't
>>have the guts to state one or the other.
>
>
>You been drinking hotel beer again?
>
>In 2 sentences, you got 3 things utterly wrong.
>
>Way to go! Everyone give this guy a big hand!!
>
>Clap clap clap clap clap!!!! Yahbuddy!!
>
>Way to go Dude!!
>
>
>Gunner

Poor gummer is certain you need a cause for nothing at all to happen.

That's how confused he is by winger & fundie lies.

Probably even thinks guns make him safer too. Just like
those dumb fundie wingers in Michigan (where he's from).
Bet the NRA, Rush & Faux don't even set up a defense fund for them.
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Who will be the first?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f434d5963fd21822?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Thurs, Apr 1 2010 9:39 pm
From: Don Foreman

On Thu, 01 Apr 2010 08:42:08 -0700, wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:

>
>That's ridiculous. The damned debate lasted so long and was so mired
>in tech that action almost didn't occur due to public tiredness of
>hearing about it. Now watch as you reply about some detail and imply
>that the detail is a reflection of the entire process.

http://www.biggestbrains.com/dforeman/CNNclip/

==============================================================================

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Thursday, April 1, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 14 topics - digest

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