twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 16 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anniversary of an amazingly enduring design
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/57c9c3facffdfb67?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 9:49 am
From: "RAM³"

"Don Foreman" <dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:127rq55sotskkdbqrodkqs08e4kmdrlu9v@4ax.com...
> Monday, March 29, is the 99th anniversary of the legendary 1911
> semiautomatic pistol designed by John Moses Browning.
>

You forgot to mention that the M1911 is, still, the *only* firearm shown to
pass the tests that resulted in its adoption.

While many have complained about the "looseness" of the fit of its parts,
the M1911 remains the only handgun that will function in spite of mud, sand,
etc., under the most extreme conditions.

In "the moment of truth" the M1911 *will* function properly. <GRIN>

BTW, an M1911A1 fits each of my hands perfectly...

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 10:07 am
From: Ignoramus11443

On 2010-03-27, Ed Huntress <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> "Don Foreman" <dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
> news:acasq51l3tbs78i8ih9087cppii6q0o0a5@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:45:37 -0500, Ignoramus11443
>> <ignoramus11443@NOSPAM.11443.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>That's a very enduring design, yes. I actually own a Beretta and love
>>>it. How does that .45 handle, is the recoil a little too much?
>>>
>>>i
>>
>> Most people don't seem to find the recoil of a 1911 to be an issue.
>> There is recoil, but it's "mellow" rather than "sharp" like a .40S&W
>> or 10mm and there's 40 oz of mass there to help soak it up.
>
> Good description. "Mellow" is the right word.
>
>> You
>> would notice more recoil than with your Beretta but I don't think it'd
>> bother you.
>

OK, that's good to know. I am not really into handguns that much,
though I can shoot decently. I like rifles much better, tinkering with
scopes and such. My next project is making a bayonet attachment for my
Finnish Mosin Nagant.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 10:28 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Jim Wilkins" <kb1dal@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6d66b49d-171e-4712-82de-f1f9403f0d7c@x12g2000yqx.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 27, 11:15 am, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> ...
> And at the other end of the scale, just to show his versatility, he
> designed
> the falling-block Winchester Hi-Wall single-shot.
> Ed Huntress

>Then he went on the year of Mormon proselytizing. He and a companion
>walked into a backwoods Georgia gun store, sweaty, smelly and dusty
>from the road, saw a production one for the first time, got all
>excited and exclaimed something like "Hey, that's my design. I made
>that gun!".
>
>The owner threw them both out.
>
>After that year he didn't have much more to do with the Church.
>
>jsw

Interesting story.

--
Ed Huntress

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 12:24 pm
From: "Buerste"

JB had a gift! I have a few of his designs and I appreciate them. I have a
P08 that is truely a work of art but hasn't the practicality, durability or
ease of mfg. of the 1911. The bad side is that many of my handguns,
especially the P08 are now too valuable as "collector" pieces that I'm
afraid to use them. The last appraisal I had on the P08 was over $4k, I
wish I had one to shoot!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Stupid Liberal calls 911...from jail!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2d513cd81fba893d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 10:01 am
From: "Roger Shoaf"

"Chief Egalitarian" <Egal@legal_egal.law> wrote in message
news:4bad680b$1@news.x-privat.org...
>
http://shavedlongcock.blogspot.com/2010/03/cops-gave-woman-one-call-after-arrest.html
>
> Cops gave woman one call after arrest, so she dialed 9-1-1
> After Naperville police booked a woman for disorderly conduct, they
granted
> her the customary one phone call.
> She promptly dialed 911. To report she was being held against her will at
> the Naperville police station.
> Police were not amused. They charged Carly A. Houston, 29, with filing a
> false 911 report, Naperville police said today.
>
>

What was false about her report?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: If George Bush........
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/ee503716cb3ad0d5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 10:32 am
From: "Ed Huntress"

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:PPadnQio4fEJiDPWnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Ed Huntress wrote:
>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>> news:B5mdna0Ao5ynjzPWnZ2dnUVZ_qOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>> Buerste wrote:
>>>> "Hawke" <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:hoj3hn$6t8$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>> <snip>
>>>>> Now we don't. We want the same thing as to creating favorable
>>>>> conditions for businesses to be successful. Without them the people
>>>>> are not going to have a high level of wealth. No good businesses,
>>>>> only poor people. So we do want that. But we also know the
>>>>> government is supposed to do what the people want. That requires
>>>>> taking a certain amount of money in taxes. If you have to get money
>>>>> for taxes it only makes sense to go to those who have it. In the
>>>>> last decade the wealth of the country has become way too
>>>>> concentrated in too few hands. That means we have to take a lot
>>>>> more from those lucky few. If we had an egalitarian society where
>>>>> everyone had equal wealth we could go to everyone for the money.
>>>>> But when all the money is held by the few then they are going to
>>>>> have to pay for everything, but they have it so why not. So you
>>>>> choose. You can have an unequal society where a few own everything
>>>>> and thus pay all the taxes, or you can have a more economically
>>>>> equal society where all the people pay the taxes. Right now most
>>>>> wealth is held by a small number. So they have to pay. To which I
>>>>> say, if you don't like it you can move to another country.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hawke
>>>>
>>>> At least you are honest in your socialism. Socialist/Marxist
>>>> Liberals have created the situation where a portion of the
>>>> population is uneducated, skill-less, jobless and a drain on
>>>> society...but they VOTE! THAT'S how liberals self-perpetuate.
>>>> And, you guys keep those people in that position. You've gotten
>>>> that population high enough to ensure power for liberals so they
>>>> can extract MORE wealth from those that produce it and redistribute
>>>> it to the voting leeches. But, what happens when you drain all the
>>>> wealth than can be created by those that create it? Robbing Peter
>>>> to pay Paul works well if you're Paul...until you bankrupt Peter.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/26/cbos-2020-vision-debt-will-rise-to-90-of-gdp/
>>>> President Obama's fiscal 2011 budget will generate nearly $10
>>>> trillion in cumulative budget deficits over the next 10 years, $1.2
>>>> trillion more than the administration projected, and raise the
>>>> federal debt to 90 percent of the nation's economic output by 2020,
>>>> the Congressional Budget Office reported Thursday
>>>
>>> Total US taxes, the total tax divided by the number of citizens, has
>>> ranged
>>> between the lowest and third-lowest among developed countries (the
>>> OECD countries) in recent years. Our corporate tax, which was the
>>> lowest among that group until not many years ago, is now nominally
>>> one of the highest because those other countries have been in a race
>>> to keep companies from leaving their countries and moving elsewhere
>>> -- like big pharma did when much of it moved to the US. But in
>>> practice, because of all of the complexities in our tax code, our
>>> corporations pay less tax than those in any other developed country.
>>> Our real average corporate tax is around 19% of
>>> their profits.
>>>
>>> The total tax burden is another issue, but one thing is absolutely
>>> clear from the numbers: The US is not at a competitive disadvantage
>>> because of our
>>> total tax rates. And corporations are paying much less in fact, even
>>> though
>>> our *nominal* rates are higher, than their competitors in other
>>> developed countries.
>>>
>>> The big "tax" disadvantage our larger corporations suffer from is
>>> paying healthcare and pensions, much of which are picked up by the
>>> state in other countries. That's why they have higher *overall* tax
>>> rates, in terms of total taxes per individual. Corporations get off
>>> that hook in many other countries. The taxes are still there, but
>>> they're shifted off the corporations' backs and onto individual
>>> citizens.
>>>
>>> There are other, smaller examples that explain why taxes are so high
>>> in other countries, even while we yell about taxes here. Our system
>>> is skewed in some ways that hurt performance (like our health care
>>> system) while turning the screws in some places but not in others.
>>> But flat taxes and VATs
>>> don't, in themselves, help to straighten out the matters of
>>> performance of social institutions or corporate competitiveness. If
>>> you flattened out the taxes without introducing a universal health
>>> care system, you'd just put the
>>> squeeze on the middle class, particularly the lower-middle. And VATs
>>> are steeply regressive. European countries use a very steeply
>>> progressive income
>>> tax -- the opposite of a flat income tax -- to compensate. You
>>> *would* succeed in depressing consumption with a VAT in the US, but
>>> then you'd be forced, like Germany and Japan, to depend excessively
>>> on a mercantilist (export-based) economy. You can see where it's
>>> gotten them: in a downturn, they're sucking wind from all
>>> directions. Not only do they feel the recession more sharply than we
>>> do, but they can't do a damned thing about it
>>> until the economies of their trading partners pick up.
>>>
>>> All in all, it wouldn't be healthy for us to have a flat tax and/or
>>> a VAT. We be in a real race to the bottom against China, SE Asia,
>>> and a few others.
>>> Our economy really does rely on high rates of domestic consumption,
>>> and, most of the time, it leaves us in a stronger position overall.
>>> That's why our Treasury bills still sell to foreigners. They've lost
>>> some of their glitter lately but you would expect, all else being
>>> equal, that they would have completely tanked.
>>>
>>> All else isn't equal because we can recover from a recession better
>>> than most. And our tax system is part of the reason. Tinker with it
>>> at your peril.
>>>
>>
>> Is there an echo in here? d8-)
>
> I hope so <G>
> I'm also wondering why, if Tom is doing such a splendid job creating jobs,
> Ohio is going to be without two Congressional Districts as the result of
> the
> current census.

I think he's giving a lot of them the brush-off.

> I wonder if Tang Face is going to be back to running the
> family bar?

Huh. Tang. Yeah, that's good. The color on my TV is off a little bit, I
guess. His face still looks like Pontiac Firegold from here.

--
Ed Huntress

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 12:15 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

Ed Huntress wrote:
> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
> news:PPadnQio4fEJiDPWnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>>> news:B5mdna0Ao5ynjzPWnZ2dnUVZ_qOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> Buerste wrote:
>>>>> "Hawke" <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:hoj3hn$6t8$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>> <snip>
>>> Is there an echo in here? d8-)
>>
>> I hope so <G>
>> I'm also wondering why, if Tom is doing such a splendid job creating
>> jobs, Ohio is going to be without two Congressional Districts as the
>> result of the
>> current census.
>
> I think he's giving a lot of them the brush-off.

Well....
They lost two in 1990, two more in 2000 and now another two in 2010.
At 630,000 a pop, that's a lot of brushing.
LOL
It's also a huge dent in the tax base.

>
>> I wonder if Tang Face is going to be back to running the
>> family bar?
>
> Huh. Tang. Yeah, that's good. The color on my TV is off a little bit,
> I guess. His face still looks like Pontiac Firegold from here.

It's a spray on so he can vary the color to suit his mood if he likes. He
was much less radiant when he took to the well of the House before the
reconcilliation vote than he'd been on Sunday. Did you notice that? It would
be funny as hell if the service he uses turned him a dark shade of ebony by
mistake one day <G> That really would be "Magic".
LOL

--
John R. Carroll

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DIY surge protection...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fa560b93f2504a9b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 10:51 am
From: "krw@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz"

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 10:15:28 -0600, bud-- <remove.budnews@isp.com> wrote:

>westom wrote:
>> On Mar 26, 12:32 am, bud-- <remove.budn...@isp.com> wrote:
>>>> Do you magically make that energy just disappear? Of course not.
>>> Where the energy goes has often been explained (including this thread)
>>> but w's religious blinders prevent the words from penetrating.
>>
>> According to Bud, that energy magically disappears. Clamping
>> somehow make energy disappear? He says that often.
>
>I don't ever say that, but the village idiot just can't understand. To
>poor w it is "magic".

Idiot 'w' thinks his boat will sinks the first time a wave hits.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Is Gunner's Teabagger brother running for office?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/da211f93e1e102f2?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 10:57 am
From: Too_Many_Tools

Could this be Gunner's long lost Teabagger brother running for office?

His politics and spending habits are the same.

TMT

Nevada tea party candidate facing felony charges
By KEN RITTER, Associated Press Writer Ken Ritter, Associated Press
Writer
Fri Mar 26, 7:18 pm ET

LAS VEGAS – A Nevada asphalt contractor who faces a legal challenge to
his Tea Party of Nevada candidacy for U.S. Senate was hit Friday with
felony theft and bad check charges in Las Vegas that allege he bounced
a $5,000 business check last year.

Scott Ashjian is one of a record 22 candidates, including 12
Republicans, running for the seat held by Senate Majority Leader Harry
Reid, who is seeking a fifth term.

Bernie Zadrowski, head of the Clark County district attorney's office
bad check unit, said he would seek an arrest warrant Monday in Las
Vegas Justice Court. Ashjian could face up to 14 years in state prison
if convicted.

The tea party movement is a disparate coalition of conservative groups
angered by federal spending, rising taxes and the growth and reach of
government. Other tea party activists have been distancing themselves
from Ashjian, and an ad targeting him has been sponsored by the Tea
Party Express, one of the most visible factions of the national tea
party movement.

In a separate matter, a Carson City District Court judge on Friday set
an April 14 hearing on a lawsuit that challenges Ashjian's membership
in the Tea Party of Nevada and his place on the ballot. Documents
filed with the lawsuit appear to show that Ashjian changed his voter
registration on March 2, the day after he filed his declaration of
candidacy.

Ashjian said he's being targeted by unnamed people acting on behalf of
the Republican Party.

"Clearly these people are afraid that I will siphon votes from their
political party and from the Republican Party," he said in a statement
in response to the lawsuit.

The criminal charge in Las Vegas stems from a returned check for
$5,000 written Dec. 7 to a Las Vegas businessman.

Zadrowski, a former Clark County GOP chairman now running for judge,
said party politics had no role in his decision to file criminal bad
check charges against Ashjian.

"We're not doing anything different with this case than we do with any
other $5,000 bad check that comes through the door," the prosecutor
said.

Ashjian, owner of a business called A&A Asphalt, didn't respond
Thursday and Friday to e-mail and telephone messages seeking comment
on the criminal case or an explanation for what public documents
suggest is a pattern of nonpayment of business and personal debts. A
felony conviction would bar him from running for office.

Records show Ashjian lost his state contractor's license Wednesday
after failing to appear for a disciplinary proceeding stemming from a
complaint that he bounced a $981.82 check to a materials supplier last
year. Ashjian also does business as Jon Scott Ashjian.

The Nevada State Contractors Board fined Ashjian $1,500 and ordered
him to pay almost $1,150 in investigative costs, board spokesman Art
Nadler said.

Public documents on file with the Clark County Recorder show Ashjian
also faced foreclosure on home loans totaling almost $1 million, owed
a $200,000 Internal Revenue Service tax debt and faced city nuisance
actions and liens alleging he failed to pay homeowners' dues, a
roofer, and his trash collector.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 'Twisted' Mind
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/9be56917d888f492?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 10:57 am
From: Cliff

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2010/03/weiner-on-palins-twisted-mind.html
"Weiner On Palin's 'Twisted' Mind"
[
Rep. Anthony Weiner responded with scorn to Sarah Palin's assertion that she
isn't responsible for encouraging the attacks on Democrats who voted in favor of
health care reform, even after her "RELOAD!" Tweet.

[
"What Sarah Palin doesn't seem to understand is that while it's pretty clear to
most people that the - the language about targeting someone and being in the
crosshairs was a metaphor to her, to a twisted mind, it really might be the sign
that they should go ahead and do something more violent," Weiner told CNN's Wolf
Blitzer on "The Situation Room" today.

"I'm not quite sure she understands the debate is about whether or not these
lines have been crossed," the congressman continued. "Because, clearly, when you
have people shouting anti-Semitic and racist and homophobic things on the steps
of the Capitol, when you have threats going to members of Congress that - that
someone...has to take responsibility for this incitement."

"And I think that at least some of it has to go to - to her responsibility."
]

Weiner, who was outspoken throughout the health care debate, received
threatening letters - including one containing white powder that caused the
closure of his Queens office. The powder appears to have been antacid.
]

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 12:46 pm
From: wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 13:57:58 -0400, Cliff
<Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:

>
>http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2010/03/weiner-on-palins-twisted-mind.html
> "Weiner On Palin's 'Twisted' Mind"
>[
>Rep. Anthony Weiner responded with scorn to Sarah Palin's assertion that she
>isn't responsible for encouraging the attacks on Democrats who voted in favor of
>health care reform, even after her "RELOAD!" Tweet.
>
>[
>"What Sarah Palin doesn't seem to understand is that while it's pretty clear to
>most people that the - the language about targeting someone and being in the
>crosshairs was a metaphor to her, to a twisted mind, it really might be the sign
>that they should go ahead and do something more violent," Weiner told CNN's Wolf
>Blitzer on "The Situation Room" today.
>
>"I'm not quite sure she understands the debate is about whether or not these
>lines have been crossed," the congressman continued. "Because, clearly, when you
>have people shouting anti-Semitic and racist and homophobic things on the steps
>of the Capitol, when you have threats going to members of Congress that - that
>someone...has to take responsibility for this incitement."
>
>"And I think that at least some of it has to go to - to her responsibility."
>]
>
>Weiner, who was outspoken throughout the health care debate, received
>threatening letters - including one containing white powder that caused the
>closure of his Queens office. The powder appears to have been antacid.

Steele, who is occasionally halfway sensible when his fellows are
being assholes, has thrown in with the assholes this time.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/35096.html Apparently these
nitwits won't be happy until they're on the wrong side of every last
issue, even the easiest ones. If some gummer-type wacko gets lucky,
palin, boner, and steele will have some 'splainin to do. Of course,
they've given up most pretense of logic, and care primarily about
riling up their base. Pretty sad.

Wayne

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Surface Plates
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/bc2625a5c4711576?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 11:43 am
From: Cliff

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:18:18 -0700 (PDT), John <johnmanders@freenetname.co.uk>
wrote:

>
>> Harder = more resistant to wear for starters.
>> --
>> Cliff
>
>Not always. Many pumps are lined with rubber if they're handling
>abrasive slurry and I certainly don't want granite tyres. Apart from
>the obvious lack of grip, they would last about twice round the block
>if you're lucky.
>
>John

I'll not comment about Polish or Italian snow/flat tires.
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The True Colours of Teabaggers
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e77fb546fe14b090?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 11:53 am
From: Cliff

On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 04:11:13 -0500, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:22:48 -0700, tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>In article <bp8jq51bdi2fk3pg58721n7palppltovo7@4ax.com>,
>>Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>>>
>>> On 21 Mar 2010 21:21:05 GMT, D Murphy <dmurf154@att.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> >The crowd was far from uniform.
>>>
>>> Let's take away their socialist medicare, unemployment & social security.
>>
>>I always figured you for a facist.
>>Thanks for confirming it
>
>Ahh...so YOU want it but you don't want anyone else to have it!
>Typical narrow minded immature conservative.

Just thinking of ways to grant THEIR wishes.
They still believe in fairies, right?

http://www.thelangreport.com/featured/sarah-palins-demon-haunted-churches-does-this-scare-you/
"Sarah Palin's Demon Haunted Churches - DOES THIS SCARE YOU?"
[
Governor 's churches are actively involved in a resurgent movement that was
declared heretical by the Assemblies of God in 1949. This is the same
'Spiritual Warfare' movement that was featured in the award winning movie,
"Jesus Camp," which showed young children being trained to do battle for the
Lord. At least three of four of Palin's churches are involved with major
organizations and leaders of this movement, which is referred to as The Third
Wave of the Holy Spirit or the New Apostolic Reformation. The movement is
training a young "Joel's Army" to take dominion over the United States and the
world.
....
]
--
Cliff

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 11:55 am
From: Cliff

On 26 Mar 2010 06:00:01 GMT, D Murphy <dmurf154@att.net> wrote:

>Cliff <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in
>news:bp8jq51bdi2fk3pg58721n7palppltovo7@4ax.com:
>
>> On 21 Mar 2010 21:21:05 GMT, D Murphy <dmurf154@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>The crowd was far from uniform.
>>
>> Let's take away their socialist medicare, unemployment & social
>> security.
>
>I'm good with that. Except unemployment. Just make it real insurance
>instead of fake insurance and it would be OK by me. The rest can go.

He loves AIG.

>First sensible thing you've posted in about a decade.

Were not all those forclosed homes insured?
No problem then.
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Closing aluminium tube ends
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5d4e22498f315783?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 11:59 am
From: whit3rd

On Mar 26, 1:29 pm, Robin <creffi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm working on a little project (a spotlight) that is basically a bit
> of aluminium tubing, 50mm ID, 5mm wall thickness. I was wondering the
> best way to close the end of the tube

> c) Cut a chamfered plug and bond it to the tube - not sure what
> adhesive to use

How about solder? With the right fluxes and aluminum solder you
get a good tight join. Drawn plug of soft aluminum would be
suitable, too.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Republican losing streak continues
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/acd15706db55f813?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 1:03 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

RogerN wrote:
> "Hawke" <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
> news:ho7172$kp9$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>> Following in the footsteps of their losses in 2006 and 2008, the
>> republican party has again suffered a crushing defeat. Despite doing
>> everything possible to stop Obama and the Dems from passing health
>> care reform, the republicans have failed again. Health care reform
>> has passed. So chalk up another loss to the republican party...and
>> the teabaggers. All their efforts could not stop the duly elected
>> majority from doing what they said they would do if elected. For
>> those who were asking what has Obama accomplished in his time in
>> office you now have your answer. So next we get to see how bad the
>> republican's predictions of the end of the world if the bill passes
>> comes to reality. My prediction is things improve.
>>
>> Hawke
>
> Looks like Obamacare is taking it's toll on others besides
> Republicans. Add a billion dollars to the cost of Obamacare, and
> that's just from AT&T.
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/27/technology/companies/27phone.html
>
>

Yeah, AT&T has been deducting the 28 percent payment they recieve from the
feds to help pay for their retiree drug benefit from their income tax.

"Under the 2003 Medicare prescription drug program, companies that provide
prescription drug benefits for retirees have been able to receive subsidies
covering 28 percent of eligible costs. But they could deduct the entire
amount they spent on these drug benefits - including the subsidies - from
their taxable income.The new law allows companies to deduct only the 72
percent they spent."

In other words, AT&T has been playing the American taxpayer for suckers and
the free ride just came to an end.

--
John R. Carroll

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Some CAD/CAM history
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fe8dd334dae30f96?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 12:06 pm
From: Cliff

On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 03:57:14 -0700 (PDT), cncmillgil <milgil@cin.net> wrote:

>WTF? ya can't run thin minimally shielded RS232 wires around
>the conduit that has 460V for the big ass arc welder in back?

The conduit is both grounded AND a Faraday cage, right?
And magnetic fields should cancel, right?
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: PICTURES of my wire brushing and polishing setup
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2bd20b7802ede923?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 12:38 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Ignoramus8345" <ignoramus8345@NOSPAM.8345.invalid> wrote in message
news:b-ydnaQRJ6XJFjDWnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Some pictures of my cleaning setup.
>
> http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Cleaning-And-Polishing/
>
> I can clean and polish most things, like the ones pictured, in one
> minute or so.
>
> The pictures show two items, a Morse 2 shank to Morse 3 hole extender,
> and a Morse 5 shell mill holder.
>
> i

Make some kind of guard for that brush, Mr. Porcupine! I kept a copy of
that picture to scare people.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Somewhat OT: Well Wiring
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fc2d499a65092f3e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 12:40 pm
From: wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:10:26 -0700 (PDT), "pdrahn@coinet.com"
<co_farmer@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Mar 26, 6:15 pm, Ecnerwal
><MyNameForw...@ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> wrote:
>> From what I understand of wire insulation codes, ANY TW or THWN wire (or
>> other wire with a W in the type code) is waterproof, period. Conduits
>> are assumed to be full of water if they run outside, so wet location
>> wire is supposed to work fine in water.
>>
>> I'm wiring a submersible well pump. 12-2 w/g "well wire" is thus far so
>> much more costly than 3 rolls of 12-gauge wire and I "twist it myself"
>> (the product I'm comparing is just 3 wires twisted, no jacket) that I'm
>> rather tempted to do exactly that, since I can't see that there's
>> anything "special" about "submersible well pump wire" other than its
>> "special bend-over price." At least, if I understand wire insulation
>> codes correctly. There's no "special insulation code just for wells" -
>> the stuff is typically TW (60C - no problem in a hole in the ground that
>> stays near 10-15C most of the time.)
>>
>> --
>> Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
>
>We live in the desert and have a well about 600 ft deep. The pump is a
>3hp.
>
>Last summer we had to replace the pump. The 1 1/2 pipe is 540 ft, as I
>remember. The wire was three individual conductors, Twisted, as you
>suggest. The pipe had one of those "football" things on it and the
>well maintenance guys took it off and threw it away. Said it doesn't
>stop twisting of the pipe, only dampens the vibration and with that
>much pipe, didn't really do anything.
>
>We reused the old wire and tried our best to examine it and tape any
>abraded places. The wire was taped in many places as it went down the
>well.
>
>About a month later, the pump quit with a short to ground. Apparently
>we had missed an abraded place and it had worn more and shorted to the
>pipe. So, another session of pipe removal. They got a spool and a half
>of new wire. This wire was flat and the three conductors are molded
>together in some type of poly insulation. Yes, it did cost a lot, but
>the scrap price for the old wire covered almost 1/2 the cost of the
>new stuff. The new flat wire will probably not have the abrasion
>problem the old wire had.
>
>I would submit that you are foolish to not use the more expensive wire
>specifically designed for well usage. The cost of replacement in a few
>years will more than exceed the cost difference.

I've seen a fair bit of both types of wire. Yes, the twisted stuff is
more easily damaged, especially if the hole is crooked, has offset
joints, or is uncased. But generally, it works well. It's an easy way
to save quite a few bux on deep wells if there aren't any special
problems. Even if there are issues on a particular hole, one could
probably still save over the double-jacketed type by putting a torque
arrestor say, every 100'.
http://www.deanbennett.com/misc-well-accessories.htm Or make centering
devices out of strips of pvc and hose clamps.

Reasonable wire prices here.
http://www.deanbennett.com/submersible-pump-wire.htm

Wayne

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 1:20 pm
From: Ecnerwal

In article <7jnsq5t35m93nuhmrmn5euilgulgeo9plq@4ax.com>,
wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:

> Or make centering
> devices out of strips of pvc and hose clamps.

I'm simply buying plastic centering devices (aka cable guides) and
sticking them on the pipe every 10-25 feet (recommendations vary - the
things are only a couple bucks each, with holes to isolate pipe, wire,
and safety rope.) Could certainly add a couple more footballs, I guess.
The things pump guys do (ie, throwing that away) are sometimes based on
future pump guy business...I suspect.

Best price thus far on the well cable is 62 cents a foot delivered,
which is bearable, but I find occasional surprises, like the 100 bucks
less that one local lumberyard is charging me for 200PSI poly pipe .vs.
best price I could find on the internet, (while local lumberyard #2
could not get 200PSI pipe, and wants $1.57/foot plus tax for pump cable.)

I have shifted to mostly shopping for 300 feet of pump cable and putting
a junction (and arrestor) at the top of the well, rather than buying a
reel at 500 feet (should cost less per foot, so far does not) and
running pump cable out to the wellhead from the power source, since
"non-pump-wire" costs considerably less, and that part is just sitting
still in conduit.

It's easy to se where this can get horribly expensive the second time -
right now time is not of the essence and I have the latitude to shop
around. Once dependent on the well working, local lumberyard #2's
extortionate price on pump wire might look better than a week's delay.
Avoiding a second time as much as possible is certainly part of the plan.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT -- off grid power systems
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/284c9711ef5c39e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 12:48 pm
From: wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 01:37:24 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
<wb8foz@panix.com> wrote:

>I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar
>array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid
>{"meter backwards"}.
>
>And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered
>around such.

Try here.
http://www.outbackpower.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=15&sid=71c974aea3301fbf6543b175305978f6

You might also search alt.energy.homepower looking for posts by
Clarence Dold. Or just post your question there so that he and other
grid-solar types will see it.

Wayne

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 1:31 pm
From: cavelamb

Steve W. wrote:

>>>
>> Weve been off grid for some 39 yrs.
>> used diesels for power generation, on demand systems by Lister, called
>> the startamatic set up.
>> 5 yrs ago found 3 tons of nicad alkaline( sodium hydroxide ) batteries.
>> so then invested in an 3kw "outback" US system of charger/inverter.
>> Been in use for 6 months and has proved very efficient.
>> Next step is to use one of our 6/1 diesels running on straight
>> vegetable oil as a dc generator to eliminate the use of fossil fuel.
>> Will need to make a suitable alternator aka windmill permanent magnet type.
>> as for solar, this could be a possibility but due to the poor UK
>> weatherm sunshine is not reliable enough for us.
>> also the cost of connecting to our uk grid is prohibitive, due to the
>> distance.
>> Google for outback there the best right now for what you want.
>> Ted
>> Dorset
>> uk
>

> I though UK sunshine was measure in inches per hour...!!!
>

That's crazy! They are metric.

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT-Escape Obummer care
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/25e744b389bb8f86?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 1:04 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Gunner Asch" <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:41doq5p7qh2c39hi3h8rhvk0h8ouas76n8@4ax.com...
<snip>
> Lets see...Im 12% Native American so Im an Indian, I definately can show
> financial hardship, definately have less income than the poverty leval
> and $15k is far above 8%
>
> So Im covered?
>
> Cool!
>
> Gunner
>

We should adopt a page from the libtard handbook. Look at the socialists
"Cloward and Piven" strategy of overwhelming and breaking the system. I
hope that all conservatives, after seeing how the libtards operate, start to
play by the same rules...there ARE no rules anymore! Conservatives need to
do every trick in the book and make-up some new ones. We should take every
welfare kid with sniffles and every illegal immigrant with a hang nail to an
emergency room.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 1:08 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Buerste" <buerste@buerste.com> wrote in message
news:holoc5$ksq$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>
> "Gunner Asch" <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:41doq5p7qh2c39hi3h8rhvk0h8ouas76n8@4ax.com...
> <snip>
>> Lets see...Im 12% Native American so Im an Indian, I definately can show
>> financial hardship, definately have less income than the poverty leval
>> and $15k is far above 8%
>>
>> So Im covered?
>>
>> Cool!
>>
>> Gunner
>>
>
> We should adopt a page from the libtard handbook. Look at the socialists
> "Cloward and Piven" strategy of overwhelming and breaking the system. I
> hope that all conservatives, after seeing how the libtards operate, start
> to play by the same rules...there ARE no rules anymore! Conservatives
> need to do every trick in the book and make-up some new ones. We should
> take every welfare kid with sniffles and every illegal immigrant with a
> hang nail to an emergency room.

That's what we have NOW, you goof. That's what the Republicans DIDN'T WANT
TO CHANGE!

'Get it yet, Tawwwm? Is it shining through that hard skull yet? What you're
bitching about IS EXACTLY WHAT YOUR BUTTHEADED BUDDIES WANTED TO KEEP!

Wake up. Have a cup of coffee. Read something other than the crap you're
stuffing your head with. Or stop making it up, whichever it is you're doing.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DIY Two-Stroke Engine
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/bcf5d37475198771?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 1:18 pm
From: cavelamb

wesley marceaux wrote:
> your too late,, Mr. Chotia made an engine for the weedhopper that is exactly
> what you described..you can go to the weedhopper site and buy one for under
> a hundred bucks...........try,,,,you'll be surprised

I was surprised - to see that the site hasn't been updated since 2005...

I didn't see anything about an engine for under $100 either.

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Saturday, March 27, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 16 topics - digest

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