twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 15 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Oil filter wrench
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/60ec5e63639fffb7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 5:26 am
From: Dave__67

On Mar 19, 6:37 am, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeif...@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
> "Steve B" <ne...@nowhere.com> writes:
> > I just changed oil on my 2006 Dodge Ram 2500 with the Cummins. Some genius
> > engineer put the oil filter in a nearly inaccessible place. I took my
> > regular oil filter wrench, cut the handle off it, and welded two old sockets
> > on the stub so I could slip it up in there and get the thing off and back
> > on. Barely enough room at that.
>
> > Is a wrench made that sockets up from the center, and upon turning,
> > constricts? I have one that is 16 sided or something like that, but not all
> > filters are hex shaped. And the ones that are don't always spin off with
> > that flimsy little plastic goober.
>
> > Anyone know of a good filter wrench configured like that?
>
> I got one just like you're describing at Sears, years ago. Also ought
> to be able to get one at NAPA.
> --
> As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
> be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
> and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)

That is a truly minimized design- gear and finger from the same piece
of round stock.

Dave

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 6 quarts of oil instead of 5, in my pickup
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6f3afb5dee7a89fb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 6:08 am
From: Ignoramus4239

My truck requires 5 quarts of oil. I made a mistake yesterday when
changing oil, and put in 6 quarts instead of five (I squarely blame my
kids for this). Would you think that I am jeopardizing anything if I
simply keep that amount and do not drain excess oil.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 6:16 am
From: "Steve W."

Ignoramus4239 wrote:
> My truck requires 5 quarts of oil. I made a mistake yesterday when
> changing oil, and put in 6 quarts instead of five (I squarely blame my
> kids for this). Would you think that I am jeopardizing anything if I
> simply keep that amount and do not drain excess oil.
>
> i

What engine? Many have some extra room BUT it depends on the engine.
Also depends on the filter.

--
Steve W.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 6:37 am
From: John

On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 08:08:59 -0500, Ignoramus4239
<ignoramus4239@NOSPAM.4239.invalid> wrote:

>My truck requires 5 quarts of oil. I made a mistake yesterday when
>changing oil, and put in 6 quarts instead of five (I squarely blame my
>kids for this). Would you think that I am jeopardizing anything if I
>simply keep that amount and do not drain excess oil.
>
>i

I don't know what kind of truck you have but it is quite common to
overfill marine diesels, particularly if you check oil while underway
as there is a certain amount of oil in the top end while the engine is
running which drains back into the case when the engine is shut down.
I've often shut the engine in the boat down and discovered that those
times I checked and found the oil down a little and added more ended
up a quart over when I shutdown. It will burn off in time. I've done
the same thing in my Isuzu pickup (2.8 Ltr. turbocharged diesel) when
I was "free hand" filling from a gallon jug, with no problems.

John B.

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 6:38 am
From: Ignoramus4239

On 2010-03-19, Steve W. <csr684@NOTyahoo.com> wrote:
> Ignoramus4239 wrote:
>> My truck requires 5 quarts of oil. I made a mistake yesterday when
>> changing oil, and put in 6 quarts instead of five (I squarely blame my
>> kids for this). Would you think that I am jeopardizing anything if I
>> simply keep that amount and do not drain excess oil.
>>
>> i
>
> What engine? Many have some extra room BUT it depends on the engine.
> Also depends on the filter.
>

This is Chevy silverado 2500 HD, 6 cylinder engine.

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 7:05 am
From: "Pete C."

Ignoramus4239 wrote:
>
> My truck requires 5 quarts of oil. I made a mistake yesterday when
> changing oil, and put in 6 quarts instead of five (I squarely blame my
> kids for this). Would you think that I am jeopardizing anything if I
> simply keep that amount and do not drain excess oil.
>
> i

It depends on the engine, and it's generally not a good idea to leave
excess in there, though 1 qt is not a lot. The main concern with over
filled oil is if the level reaches the point where the crankshaft is
spinning in it and causes foaming. Foamed oil will not pump and will
cause a catastrophic loss of oil pressure in the engine.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 7:30 am
From: "Joe AutoDrill"

> It depends on the engine, and it's generally not a good idea to leave
> excess in there, though 1 qt is not a lot. The main concern with over
> filled oil is if the level reaches the point where the crankshaft is
> spinning in it and causes foaming. Foamed oil will not pump and will
> cause a catastrophic loss of oil pressure in the engine.

Also can build up additional pressure and pop a seal or leak out a vent.
--

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill

V8013-R

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wingers keep lying !!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/3e88a3bd89afa214?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 6:32 am
From: Hang Dog

Aratzio wrote:
> On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:32:42 +0000, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
> Hang Dog <righteous@wobble.nospam.net> got double secret probation for
> writing:
>
>> Aratzio wrote:
>>> On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 23:19:16 +0000, in the land of alt.usenet.kooks,
>>> Hang Dog <righteous@wobble.nospam.net> got double secret probation for
>>> writing:
>>>
>>>> RogerN wrote:
>>>>> Why is it that liberals care about criminals dying from the death penalty,
>>>>> care about the soldiers dying in Iraq (as we all should) but don't give a
>>>>> hoot about ripping up an innocent baby fighting for it's life in its mothers
>>>>> womb?
>>>>>
>>>> Because it is incredibly funny.
>>> That and we need stem cells to help keep us young.
>> Hush now or Roger will be calling Jack Barron.
>
> He is friends with a guy who killed his whole family?
>

You seem to be referring to some obscure serial killer. I was referring
to some semi-obscure scifi book that involved harvesting kids for the
purposes of immortality.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CUNTER ASH-----Strom Thurmond was a liberal......How stupid is CUNTER?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1e2a07d02c1cd3a5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 8:13 am
From: Gnome@cold.com

On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 04:00:42 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com>
wrote:

>>> Progressives, liberals, abolitionists (read liberals) were from the
>>> north, fought southern conservatives and eventually dictated the
>>> reconstruction of the South
>>>
>>
>>Thanks for the time. I wanted to know the extent of your ignorance.
>
>
>Looks like the dumb fuck was calling Lincoln (R) a Liberal Progressive.

Gee, exactly what the history books call him

SNICKER

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Speaking of aluminum cylinder bores...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0529ed0b59765e57?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 7:26 am
From: "Robert Swinney"

Dan sez:

"Hard anodizing is within the scope of average home shop machinist."

Thanx, Dan. I should have guessed after other recommendations in this thread. Perhaps I will look
it up and do a little experimenting.

Bob Swinney

<dcaster@krl.org> wrote in message
news:e18d3140-551c-4d3b-813e-5b714a8c1753@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 18, 12:15 pm, "Robert Swinney" <judy...@tx.rr.com> wrote:
> Anyone, please. Now that we have very good explanations of a process which is well beyond the
> scope
> of the average home-shop machinist; my question is this: Can someone speak to the efficacy of
> merely machining ordinary aluminum parts for the cylinder and piston of a small engine, and long
> term durability of same? I understand the need for a good bearing pair relationship between those
> parts, say differing metallurgy (even if alum) between cylinder and piston. For instance, a
> difference which would be achievable in the home shop. Basically, is there a way to do it without
> iron and aluminum, using aluminum components only.
>
> Bob Swinney

I
have not done it for cylinders and pistons but have done it for
pulleys on sail boats and race cars.

Dan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Patio party lighting
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c614b024aabe62e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 7:37 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:34:43 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
<buerste@buerste.com> scrawled the following:

>
>"Larry Jaques" <ljaques@diversify.invalid> wrote in message
>news:5g84q5tpq1r8qt41t9i2slt14es8usipq1@4ax.com...
><snip>
>> Are you sitting down? http://www.outdoorlighting.com/
>> and
>> http://tinyurl.com/y925ou4
>> and
>> http://tinyurl.com/y99bra8 , which seems to be "the one". At $85, it
>> damned well better be, wot?
>>
>> (std disclaimer "googledemall")
>>
>>
>> And there are the ever dear www.malibulights.com, who now sells LED
>> versions at HD. (That's an overwrought, gawdawful lighting scene on
>> their home page, innit? Harsh.)
>
>At $300 per fixture, I'll blow my budget pretty fast!

Better than blowing Chunks, huh? ;)

I particularly like OutdoorLighting's 1KW xfmr (which would handle
your yard) at only about a grand. <thud>
Might's'well be Rodeo Dr, wot?

--
Adults are obsolete children. --Dr. Seuss (Theodore Geisel, 1904-1991)
--

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 7:40 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 00:41:11 -0500, the infamous Don Foreman
<dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> scrawled the following:

>On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:34:43 -0400, "Buerste" <buerste@buerste.com>
>wrote:
>>At $300 per fixture, I'll blow my budget pretty fast!
>
>Now you unveil the contraint of budget without quantifying same.
>You are a captain of industry, are you not?
>
>Might you perhaps be trolling?

Our captain of industry is much like me, in that he squeaks when he
walks. Our fondest memory is when the Scots invented Velcro so we
could hear our wallets scream when being opened, reminding us of our
infrugality.

--
Adults are obsolete children. --Dr. Seuss (Theodore Geisel, 1904-1991)
--

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Engine bore measurements - update
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/36b58dee016a3a28?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 7:43 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 01:03:53 +0000, the infamous Christopher Tidy
<cdt22NOSPAM@cantabgold.net> scrawled the following:

>clare@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
>> Mabee not HONE (which uses rigid stones) but at least DEGLAZE. The
>> abrassive "bottle brushes" do a pretty decent job.
>
>Sorry, that was what I meant. I have the kind of deglazing hone which
>has three spring-loaded stones and looks a bit like a camera tripod.
>I've never used the "bottle brush" kind.

The spring loaded monsters work just fine.

--
Adults are obsolete children. --Dr. Seuss (Theodore Geisel, 1904-1991)
--

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 8:25 am
From: David Billington

Christopher Tidy wrote:
> David Billington wrote:
>
>>> In my younger days, when I thought a motorcycle was the best means of
>>> transportation available, a JAP engine was probably in as a speedway
>>> or grasstrack racer or maybe a Rudge, or some other exotic breed of
>>> motorcycle.... now this guy says he's got one in a LAWNMOWER???? My
>>> goodness, an alcohol fed, 50 HP lawnmower???
>>>
>>> I had to google around for a while before I discovered that J.A.P.
>>> made all kinds of engines.
>>>
>>>
>>> John B.
>>>
>>
>> I got a 7hp single cylinder JAP engine from a chap I knew about 15
>> years ago. He had worked for Villiers and he ran it through their
>> reconditioning program and it had sat in his workshop for 25 years or
>> more. It came from a small stationary crane IIRC and was governed and
>> had a huge heavy flywheel. I checked the oil and other bits, turned
>> it over for awhile to get the oil thrown about, added a spark plug as
>> all that was fitted was a cork, after cleaning the magneto points it
>> started on about the second turn of the starting handle. I used to
>> run it about once a year and the points always needed cleaning with
>> that little use but it always seemed to start and run well on the
>> second turn of the starting handle. The stop cock on the petrol tank
>> leaked a bit but a chap I knew said they always did that. I realised
>> in the end that I didn't need it and sold it to a chap that was going
>> to use it for a portable compressor for diving use. He seemed
>> impressed at how well it started on the 2nd crank, not heard from him
>> since, I don't know if he still works for the same company a mate does.
>
> They appear to be highly regarded engines. I don't need one in perfect
> condition, just a reliable one. I've never seen a JAP 7 hp. What model
> was that? Mine is a 4.5 hp Model 5 Type 53. I'm pretty sure the
> starting handle is wrong as it wobbles around (it's an S-shaped piece
> of bent round bar), whereas in pictures the handle appears to be
> fabricated from flat bar. So I'm looking for a handle, if anyone knows
> of a source.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Chris
>
Chris,

Not sure what model but it looked much like the one in this youtube
video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BvzsuP_8Ww . Big heavy flywheel on
it, may have been due to its use on a stationary crane, the flywheel
probably weighed more than a modern 7hp small engine. IIRC the starting
handle was a S shaped piece of bent bar, not made from flat like the one
in the video.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Semi-Metal Related... Water Softeners and Pipes...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/a43fdd4c494dded2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 7:52 am
From: "Joe AutoDrill"

If a home has hard water - well water - and a softener... But I HATE
softeners... Can it simply be removed?

What damage is done other than the obvious "mess" in the shower and on
fixtures?

The way I understand it, the danger was to old galvanized or steel pipe that
would literally close down. Newer copper and PVC, etc. seems to, at worst,
develop a light film or scale and then stop there...

Anything else I'm missing?

The softener is in-line with ALL the water in the house... If we do keep
it, I plan on removing it from almost everything except where needed. I
don't want to be drinking softened water and I don't need my outdoor hose to
be expensive water either...

Secondly... Is there an in-line filtering system that removes the dissolved
impurities in the water thus removing the need for a softener in the first
place?

My motto is "salt is bad!" so... There.

V8013-R

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 8:42 am
From: Ecnerwal

In article <IcMon.34082$NH1.11026@newsfe14.iad>,
"Joe AutoDrill" <autodrill@yunx.com> wrote:

> If a home has hard water - well water - and a softener... But I HATE
> softeners... Can it simply be removed?
>
> What damage is done other than the obvious "mess" in the shower and on
> fixtures?
>
> The way I understand it, the danger was to old galvanized or steel pipe that
> would literally close down. Newer copper and PVC, etc. seems to, at worst,
> develop a light film or scale and then stop there...
>
> Anything else I'm missing?

Your water heater will plug up. That can get rather expensive. If you
use the hose to wash your car, it will spot. Two different hose outlets
(one soft, one not) often make sense, or a valve to change one hose
outlet from soft to not.

> The softener is in-line with ALL the water in the house... If we do keep
> it, I plan on removing it from almost everything except where needed. I
> don't want to be drinking softened water and I don't need my outdoor hose to
> be expensive water either...
>
> Secondly... Is there an in-line filtering system that removes the dissolved
> impurities in the water thus removing the need for a softener in the first
> place?

Sure, but they cost more and waste a lot of water. RO (reverse osmosis).
Can make sense for drinking, depending on incoming water, but rather
extravagant for whole house water use.

> My motto is "salt is bad!" so... There.

You should certainly pull drinking water off ahead of the softener.
Other than that, it's not much salt, and should not be very expensive
unless you have a crappy inefficient old softener, or amazingly hard
water.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 8:47 am
From: Ecnerwal

In article <IcMon.34082$NH1.11026@newsfe14.iad>,
"Joe AutoDrill" <autodrill@yunx.com> wrote:

> If a home has hard water - well water - and a softener... But I HATE
> softeners... Can it simply be removed?

Most can be taken out of service without even removing -look for a
bypass valve at the softener.

> What damage is done other than the obvious "mess" in the shower and on
> fixtures?
>
> The way I understand it, the danger was to old galvanized or steel pipe that
> would literally close down. Newer copper and PVC, etc. seems to, at worst,
> develop a light film or scale and then stop there...
>
> Anything else I'm missing?

You'll spend more on soap to get the same amount of cleaning done for
laundry, dishes, etc.

Sure, but they cost more and waste a lot of water. RO (reverse osmosis).
Can make sense for drinking, depending on incoming water quality, but
rather extravagant for whole house water use.

> My motto is "salt is bad!" so... There.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Robo Plow, cool metal project
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/735f99871efbe5eb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 8:53 am
From: Randy

On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 05:42:58 -0700, Larry Jaques
<ljaques@diversify.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 22:34:12 -0600, the infamous Steve Ackman
><steve@SNIP-THIS.twoloonscoffee.com> scrawled the following:
>
>>In <bsk0q5po6bcr2ue6a3ck83sf6255prtfq8@4ax.com>, on Tue, 16 Mar 2010
>>21:00:08 -0700, Larry Jaques, ljaques@diversify.invalid wrote:
>>> On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 08:32:03 -0500, the infamous Randy
>>
>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tPg1ZMiC9pA
>>
>>> Uh, Randy. That's _exactly_ the same link I posted 6 days ago.
>>> ;-/
>>
>> Yeah, but you posted it under the wrong subject/thread!
>>;-)
>
>Au contraire, mon ami. I even changed the subject line for it,
>retaining the old while adding the new. I was a such a good boy.
>;)

Never saw it, Why keep the old subject in there when it's a
completely new subject not at all related to the original?

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What is it? Set 328
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e57e89c6bd2db660?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 7:57 am
From: Winston

On 3/18/2010 7:30 AM, Jerry Wass wrote:
> Rob H. wrote:
>> I need some assistance identifying two of them this week:
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>> Rob
> 1884 A Cleco fastener setter/remover---used to temporarily fasten the
> edges of sheet metal together prior to riveting---these kept the pcs in
> place so they wouldn't get out of alignment while riveting---several
> were/are used in the aircraft industry---aluminum

Whoops. I didn't see that you replied before I did.

Your answer. :)

--Winston

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What steel for pry bars?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/bcce4853edaf59b5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 7:59 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Fri, 19 Mar 2010 01:49:40 -0400, the infamous "Steve W."
<csr684@NOTyahoo.com> scrawled the following:

>Bob Engelhardt wrote:
>> OK, from what Ed & Tim said, I do want something harder than mild steel,
>> so that it won't "yield" as soon as mild steel would.
>>
>> As to heat treating facilities, well, minimal - maximum heat capability
>> is propane forge. Obviously no automatic temp control.
>>
>> As to what I'm making: it's for taking down tin ceilings. The ceilings
>> will be salvaged, so the specifics of the tool are needed to minimize
>> damage. The bar needs to be about 16" long, to reach over the back of a
>> 24" tile. It needs to have a long taper, coming to a thin edge, to work
>> under the nails without distorting the tin. One edge needs to be 3/4"
>> wide to fit into a nailing space. One end will be straight & the other
>> have a 90 degree leg. It will be pulling out 1" long 16 ga nails, so it
>> won't have to be very strong - I'm thinking 1/16" thick (from trials
>> with a 1/16" thick putty knife).
>>
>> If it wasn't for the length, I would re-shape the putty knife. Which
>> suggests brazing or silver soldering the knife on a longer handle - is
>> that doable? How about a 90 bend in it - I assume that would require
>> heating to bend, quenching, and tempering?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Bob
>>
>
>I think I would try using a clamp style nail puller on a slide hammer to
>remove the nails. Less damage to the tin and probably much faster. I
>would probably take a set of vice grips, weld a set of tapered jaws on
>the end to grip under the nail head. Then attach that to a slide hammer.

Not a bad idea.

>Tin is VERY, VERY easy to damage. BTDT working on a church kitchen
>ceiling. Decided that decorative tin is WAY to much trouble...

It sure is when idiots install them with 2-1/2" 8-pennies. BTDT twice
(one alum/tin ceiling panel, one stainless backsplash demo which I'd
hoped to save but couldn't), damnear cursed the things out. Once I got
a tiny bit of movement, I could get the needlenose vise grips onto the
heads. I then twisted and pulled them out without any more damage.
Bob's springsteel remover wouldn't have helped, even if 1/8" thick.

Bob, how about something in the way of a wedge? Dual jaws with a
little tongue which pushes them apart? I'll bet that if you can come
up with something like that, you could sell them to metal shops.
You'll be rich! ;)

--
Adults are obsolete children. --Dr. Seuss (Theodore Geisel, 1904-1991)
--

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT What's your take? OT
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/90f2ae9b8081ec29?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 8:08 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:49:44 -0700, the infamous "Steve B"
<deserttraver@fishymail.net> scrawled the following:

>Do you think this fiasco will pass Sunday?

Those fools just might do it.

>I hope and pray reason will prevail.

In WASHINGTON, D.C.? What were you thinking?
-------------------

If it passes, I'll bet you can count the seconds before a
2nd American Revolution starts thundering through our country.

I think I'll stock up on groceries and get more water today, JIC.

--
Adults are obsolete children. --Dr. Seuss (Theodore Geisel, 1904-1991)
--

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 8:51 am
From: cavelamb

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 18:49:44 -0700, the infamous "Steve B"
> <deserttraver@fishymail.net> scrawled the following:
>
>> Do you think this fiasco will pass Sunday?
>
> Those fools just might do it.
>
>
>> I hope and pray reason will prevail.
>
> In WASHINGTON, D.C.? What were you thinking?
> -------------------
>
> If it passes, I'll bet you can count the seconds before a
> 2nd American Revolution starts thundering through our country.
>
> I think I'll stock up on groceries and get more water today, JIC.
>
> --
> Adults are obsolete children. --Dr. Seuss (Theodore Geisel, 1904-1991)
> --

There is so much money involved, I doubt they can keep their hands off.

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Republic vs. Democracy {was Re: OT More examples of generosity from
President Obama
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f55b69c41bd9032f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 8:10 am
From: wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 21:34:45 -0700, Hawke
<davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote:

>On 3/17/2010 3:02 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
>> "Steve Ackman"<steve@SNIP-THIS.twoloonscoffee.com> wrote in message
>> news:slrnhq2h3v.m69.steve@sorceror.wizard.dyndns.org...
>>> In<Zd7on.102692$Ye4.52775@newsfe11.iad>, on Wed, 17 Mar 2010 12:14:43
>>> -0500, William Wixon, wwixon@frontiernet.net wrote:
>>>
>>>> (all the right wingers are constantly irritatingly reminding everyone
>>>> whenever they say we live in a democracy "WE LIVE IN A REPUBLIC!!" as a
>>>> way
>>>> of reinforcing their right wing point of view. they don't like it when
>>>> the
>>>> other party is in charge.)
>>>
>>> I'm not a right winger, and I don't care which side of the
>>> Democratic-Republican coin happens to be up at the moment (they're both as
>>> evil as the other in their own ways), but...
>>>
>>> Nowhere in the Constitution does the word "democracy" or "democratic"
>>> appear. Guess which word actually *does* appear IN the CONSTITUTION. (*)
>>>
>>>
>>> ? James Madison: "Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and
>>> contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security, or
>>> the rights of property; and have, in general, been as short in their lives
>>> as they have been violent in their deaths" (1787).
>>>
>>> ? John Adams: "Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes,
>>> exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not
>>> commit suicide" (1814).
>>>
>>> ? Benjamin Franklin told Philadelphia's Mrs. Powell as he was walking out
>>> of the constitutional convention after they had pulled together the
>>> Constitution in 1787. She said, "What sort of nation has been conceived?"
>>> Ben Franklin replied, "It's a Republic, madam, if you can keep it".
>>> [He didn't say "Democracy" did he.]
>>>
>>> ? I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to
>>> the republic for which it stands...
>>>
>>>
>>> So, while this abomination of a government to which we find ourselves
>>> subject today resembles a democracy more than it ever did in times past,
>>> it is still, Constitutionally, a Republic.
>>>
>>> (*) The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a
>>> Republican Form of Government
>>>
>>
>> My hands are shaking as I type this, but what do you mean by a "republic"?
>> <g>
>>
>
>
>Now, don't go gettin' 'em started, Ed. It's a pandora's box. It reminds
>me of a movie or TV show I saw where two people were arguing over the
>words imply and infer. I can't remember what it was but it was like
>Abbott and Costello with one yelling inferred and the other shouting
>implied back and forth. They did this every time someone used one of the
>words. Inferred!, no implied!, no inferred!, implied!. Kind of funny but
>nobody's mind was ever changed. So now its republic!, democracy!, no
>republic, no democracy!. Some things just aren't worth arguing about.
>
>Hawke

Reminds me of a recurring bit on Monkey Dust.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKEBCG3iJtw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dj8ThOmPTuM

Wayne

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Rush to flee US
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/589453ba81b739ca?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 8:13 am
From: "�n�hw��f"

Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> clouded the waters of pure thought
with news:74d5q55ejis275isuoq4l7i0dhmhhvar8q@4ax.com:

> On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 10:33:58 -0500, in the land of
alt.usenet.kooks,
> "�n�hw��f" <snuhwolf@yahoo.com> got double secret probation for
> writing:
>
>>Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> clouded the waters of pure
>>thought with news:9av2q51jatgkj81vjjmo3cr7o3vcnphr2k@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:39:43 -0400, in the land of
>>> alt.usenet.kooks, "Ala" <alackrity@comcast.net> got double secret
>>> probation for writing:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Aratzio" <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:l3bqp51a72eafr7pijt0gr7shp079tuvfd@4ax.com...
>>>>> On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 10:46:29 -0500, in the land of
>>>>> alt.usenet.kooks, "�n�hw��f" <snuhwolf@yahoo.com> got double
>>>>> secret probation for writing:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Aratzio <a6ahlyv02@sneakemail.com> clouded the waters of pure
>>>>>>thought with news:bgsnp51jte2eeaa3rv42jn0clk1phfcbi5@4ax.com:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, 13 Mar 2010 09:58:50 -0600, in the land of
>>>>>>> alt.usenet.kooks, "RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> got double
>>>>>>> secret probation for writing:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Why shouldn't he, what they are trying to do with the health
>>>>>>>>care bill is unconstitutional. Can't get enough votes, skip
>>>>>>>>votes and abuse budget reconciliation for the health care
>>>>>>>>bill, still can't get enough votes so skip voting altogether
>>>>>>>>with the Slaughter solution. Could it be any more obvious,
>>>>>>>>the government funded abortion health care bill is being
>>>>>>>>forced upon us with the Slaughter house solution! These
>>>>>>>>people don't have a clue when it's right in front of their
>>>>>>>>face. As one said, the only thing bi-partisan about Obama's
>>>>>>>>health care plan is the opposition to it. Looks like Rush is
>>>>>>>>right again!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>RogerN
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whoopsie, misinformed rightwing mouth breather:
>>>>>>> http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr-today/pro-life-group-urges-
congr
>>>>>>> ess- pass-senate-health-care-bill
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The National Catholic Reporter says you are all wrong, as
>>>>>>> usual.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there anything that you actually know for yourself? That
>>>>>>> you have actually researched to insure that some wank badger
>>>>>>> with an agenda didn't lie to you? Seriously, spewing the
>>>>>>> talking points of politicians just makes you look as
dishonest
>>>>>>> and untrustworthy as the politicians.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But you keep sucking that swill and spewing the remains if
>>>>>>> that is what makes you think you are informed. I quite enjoy
>>>>>>> watching you spew and rant.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Really? Its enjoyable to be reminded daily that people are
>>>>>>stupid to the point where it will hasten our collective
>>>>>>extinction?
>>>>>
>>>>> Long as I get to watch, sure. I think we need to create some
>>>>> really cool time capsules that will last for millions of years.
>>>>> The cockroach might be able to learn from our mistakes.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sea Life
>>>>> Early land life
>>>>> Dinosaurs
>>>>> Mammals
>>>>> Insects
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems about right.
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hmmm...well...my Nihilist side says "yay" but my...hmmm...looks
>>>>>>like theres no opposition now.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Carry On!
>>>>>>
>>>>> Trash the dump.
>>>>>
>>>>Assumes I will be around.
>>>>
>>>>Thursday is definitely out for me and Wednesday is looking bad
>>>>too. Friday at the earliest?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I feel we need to take our time and trash the dump properly. The
>>> whole Rock Ban/Hotel thing is so over done.
>>>
>>What makes you think humans will fail at this?
>>I'm entirely confident they will succeed.
>
> What makes you think saying we will trash the dump means we will
fail
> at trashing the dump?
>
>
What makes you want to trash the dump?
Yeah, chew on that fer awhile.

--
http://www.skepticalscience.com/
cageprisoners.com|www.snuhwolf.9f.com|www.eyeonpalin.org
_____ ____ ____ __ /\_/\ __ _ ______ _____
/ __/ |/ / / / / // // . . \\ \ |\ | / __ \ \ \ __\
_\ \/ / /_/ / _ / \ / \ \| \| \ \_\ \ \__\ _\
/___/_/|_/\____/_//_/ \_@_/ \__|\__|\____/\____\_\

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT More examples of generosity from President Obama
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e33e3d4c5b5a6f9e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Mar 19 2010 8:27 am
From: Larry Jaques

On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 20:57:29 -0500, the infamous Wes
<clutch@lycos.com> scrawled the following:

>Getting back to current events, I still think sweeping change was the wrong way to go. Bit
>by bit change, incrementalism, would have been a better plan over the long run.

Reverting to the community clinic model would take a helluva lot of
the stress off doctors and emergency rooms. Those have practically
disappeared in my lifetime. I remember the $5 doctor visits when I
was a sick post-teen, for flu/STD checks/her Pill/stitches.

Here's what they have nowadays in Vista, CA.
http://fwd4.me/IKW complete with marble-stepped 25' wide spiral
stairway to the second level.

--
Adults are obsolete children. --Dr. Seuss (Theodore Geisel, 1904-1991)
--

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "rec.crafts.metalworking"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rec.crafts.metalworking+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

twitter

Friday, March 19, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

0 Comments:

Post a Comment

About Me

Previous Posts