twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 18 new messages in 9 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
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Today's topics:

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TOPIC: More fun at the RNC
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/4dd5be57ef8db267?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:19 pm
From: "Chief Egalitarian"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:gpujr5533ra93hcl8knuo2a8qie1075ra5@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 19:03:22 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian"
> <Egal@legal_egal.law>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>news:ig4ir5lajg44s2mndqs1men83eselcn91b@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 10:09:29 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian"
>>> <Egal@legal_egal.law>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>>>news:m6vdr5lag2r33cfc816jjhpu5jsu7qm497@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> Find those "WMDs" yet?
>>>
>>
>>Did you try looking up your asshole?
>
> Find those "WMDs" yet?
>
Well did you? Take a look!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 6 2010 12:45 am
From: Cliff

On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 23:19:05 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian" <Egal@legal_egal.law>
wrote:

>
>
>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>news:gpujr5533ra93hcl8knuo2a8qie1075ra5@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 19:03:22 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian"
>> <Egal@legal_egal.law>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>>news:ig4ir5lajg44s2mndqs1men83eselcn91b@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 10:09:29 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian"
>>>> <Egal@legal_egal.law>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>>>>news:m6vdr5lag2r33cfc816jjhpu5jsu7qm497@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> Find those "WMDs" yet?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Did you try looking up your asshole?
>>
>> Find those "WMDs" yet?
>>
>Well did you? Take a look!

You bought the winger lies & beg for more.
Find those "WMDs" yet?
--
Cliff

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TOPIC: I need an idea on how to use scrap electrical conduit.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/de1a84b036e9498e?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:27 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 12:46:45 -0700 (PDT), the infamous karchiba
<kevin.archibald@gmail.com> scrawled the following:

>On Apr 5, 2:36 pm, Mark Rand <ra...@internettie.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:22:40 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
>>
>> <karltownsend....@embarqmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I've got a pile of 7/8 conduit. maybe 500 ten footers. And i need to make
>> >tomtato stakes for 150 plants. I checked growers out in FL this winter. They
>> >use rebar with the advantage being the tying twine you run down the row
>> >doesn't slip - just loop and pull tight. Here I'm thinking buy rebar. How do
>> >you use conduit for tomato plants? Specifially, how do you tie to this slick
>> >stuff?
>>
>> >karl
>>
>> TIG welding :-)
>>
>> Mark Rand
>> RTFM
>
>Keep in mind that most conduit is Galvanized (Zinc) plated. No
>Welding without removing the Zinc.

Kevin, after removing the zinc, what rod do you use to attach tomato
stems to the conduit? <silly grin>

--
In order that people may be happy in their work, these three things are
needed: They must be fit for it. They must not do too much of it. And
they must have a sense of success in it.
-- John Ruskin, Pre-Raphaelitism, 1850

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:27 pm
From: TwoGuns

On Apr 5, 12:35 pm, TwoGuns <R-D-Lora...@neb.rr.com> wrote:
> Recently a neighbor that cleans up construction sites had about 100
> pieces of one inch electrical conduit cutoffs from 1 foot to four feet
> long. On an impulse I offered him $20 for the lot thinking surely I
> can come up with some way of using them. What are some creative things
> some of you have used this stuff for?
> Possible uses I have thought of:
> Rollers for a conveyor system.
> Wind chimes.
> Tent stakes.
>
> Anything?
>
> DL

Thanks guys. You gave some useful ideas.

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 10:06 pm
From: Gerald Miller

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:27:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
<ljaques@diversify.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 12:46:45 -0700 (PDT), the infamous karchiba
><kevin.archibald@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
>
>>On Apr 5, 2:36 pm, Mark Rand <ra...@internettie.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 14:22:40 -0500, "Karl Townsend"
>>>
>>> <karltownsend....@embarqmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> >I've got a pile of 7/8 conduit. maybe 500 ten footers. And i need to make
>>> >tomtato stakes for 150 plants. I checked growers out in FL this winter. They
>>> >use rebar with the advantage being the tying twine you run down the row
>>> >doesn't slip - just loop and pull tight. Here I'm thinking buy rebar. How do
>>> >you use conduit for tomato plants? Specifially, how do you tie to this slick
>>> >stuff?
>>>
>>> >karl
>>>
>>> TIG welding :-)
>>>
>>> Mark Rand
>>> RTFM
>>
>>Keep in mind that most conduit is Galvanized (Zinc) plated. No
>>Welding without removing the Zinc.
>
>Kevin, after removing the zinc, what rod do you use to attach tomato
>stems to the conduit? <silly grin>
Tomato Paste? <sillier grin>
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

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TOPIC: Wiring garage lights
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/dbcc59ccb414e4b6?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:44 pm
From: Bob AZ

> The garage is finished drywall. �Do I need conduit? �Can I use Greenfield?
> I'm tempted to staple-up zip cord, I admit I did that at the old house.

Buerste

Probably not depending of course on the code requirements as adopted
by the municipality where you are adding the lights. Use Romex or UHF
depending on the local requirements. But do yourself and hack out as
necessary enough drywall to conceal the wiring. A plus would be to
hack out all the drywall and install the maximun amount possible of
insulation. And why you are in the ceiling put in some overhead
electrical outlets.

Bob AZ

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:58 pm
From: Ecnerwal

In article <hpea67$h6c$1@speranza.aioe.org>,
"Buerste" <buerste@buerste.com> wrote:

> I recovered five eight-foot 2-bulb fluorescent fixtures from my old garage
> and want to mount them in my new garage. I can't find my code book at the
> office after the last major cleaning and the mistake of adding a 250 sq ft
> store room my office, it just collects MORE junk.
>
> The garage is finished drywall. Do I need conduit? Can I use Greenfield?
> I'm tempted to staple-up zip cord, I admit I did that at the old house.

Unless and until an inspector looks at it, you can do what you like.

Unless you want to punch & patch holes in the drywall, conduit is
probably the only correct answer - and EMT (or PVC) is pretty
cheap/easy. Greenfield looks like old Armored BX armor, and I suppose it
would work too. I'd use a ground wire as well, after very limited
reading on it, but then I use a ground wire in other metallic conduit,
on general principles (which may or may not also be code at this point,
I don't know/care.) The major argument in favor of doing it right is
fire prevention, and the garage is often a problematic place to have a
fire, with various fuel sources scattered about.

An inspector could be looking at it after the house burns down - that
would be a poor (and expensive) time to think you could have done it
right, IMHO.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 10:43 pm
From: Don Foreman

On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 23:35:46 -0400, "Buerste" <buerste@buerste.com>
wrote:

>I recovered five eight-foot 2-bulb fluorescent fixtures from my old garage
>and want to mount them in my new garage. I can't find my code book at the
>office after the last major cleaning and the mistake of adding a 250 sq ft
>store room my office, it just collects MORE junk.
>
>The garage is finished drywall. Do I need conduit? Can I use Greenfield?
>I'm tempted to staple-up zip cord, I admit I did that at the old house.

Check codes applicable in your municipality over and above NEC. My
garage is wired with Romex and passed inspection. Zip cord is not
acceptable as permanent wiring, must have a plug that goes to a
code-compliant socket which would be GFI in a garage. That's if you
want to do it right. I have lights wired with zipcord and plugs.
They're non-permanent, only been there 25 years or so.

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TOPIC: Windows for Rednecks
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c3d2446f889750cb?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:50 pm
From: "Chief Egalitarian"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:pv2kr59lu85a3hglu3htftkv1noodjsge9@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:10:12 +0200, Monika Eggers
> <monikakrug@expires-2010-03-31.arcornews.de> wrote:
>
>>http://www.stupidvideos.com/pictures/Redneck_Windows/
>
> Palin should be on "pro-wrestling" soon.
>
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=palin+pro-wrestling
> --
> Cliff

trim

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 6 2010 12:47 am
From: Cliff

On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 23:50:38 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian" <Egal@legal_egal.law>
wrote:

>
>
>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>news:pv2kr59lu85a3hglu3htftkv1noodjsge9@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:10:12 +0200, Monika Eggers
>> <monikakrug@expires-2010-03-31.arcornews.de> wrote:
>>
>>>http://www.stupidvideos.com/pictures/Redneck_Windows/
>>
>> Palin should be on "pro-wrestling" soon.
>>
>>
>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=palin+pro-wrestling
>> --
>> Cliff
>
>trim

What have you against wrestling?
--
Cliff

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TOPIC: Rush to flee US
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/589453ba81b739ca?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:55 pm
From: "Chief Egalitarian"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:7vngr554ieugjiccej853pdgjpg9ll2bjr@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 14:32:36 +0700, Kadaitcha Man <anon@no.email> wrote:
>
>>"Cliff", thou big-bellied insatiate and luxurious woman. All the
>>infections that the sun sucks up from bogs, fens, flats, on thee fall,
>>and make thee by inch meal a disease. Ye modulated:
>>
>>=-9999 subject "handbags"
>>=-9999 subject "shoes"
>>=-9999 subject "cheap"
>>=-9999 subject "wholesale"
>>=-9999 subject "low price"
>>=-9999 subject "prada""
>>=-9999 subject "paypal"
>>=-9999 subject "watches"
>>=-9999 subject "dunhill"
>>=-9999 subject "vuitton"
>>=-9999 subject "chanel"
>>=-9999 subject "dior"
>>=-9999 subject "sneakers"
>>=-9999 subject "sandals"
>>=-9999 subject "replica"
>>=-9999 subject "jewellery"
>>=-9999 subject "cheap"
>>=-9999 from "clhuprich"
>
> So where did Rush flee to, as he promised he would?
> --
> Cliff

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TOPIC: #OT# Recession is over!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/be01c68a60161988?hl=en
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== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 10:16 pm
From: Hawke

On 4/5/2010 6:19 PM, dcaster@krl.org wrote:
> On Apr 5, 2:34 pm, Hawke<davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>
>
>> Does anyone actually deserve 400 million dollars? What's the point of
>> having that kind of money in the first place? Once you have all the
>> necessities of life covered everything else is just for useless luxuries
>> and doesn't do anything for you. Might as well let the government take
>> that surplus and use it for the common good. I would be glad to give up
>> that money if I were in his shoes. That's better than having one person
>> just buy himself more houses, cars, jewelry, and other crap rich people
>> buy because they have nothing better to do with their time.
>>
>> Hawke
>
> So you want to take 400 million out of the economy and put out of work
> all the carpenters, gardeners, architects, yacht builders, etc. And
> then maybe have the government spend 400 million to stimulate the
> economy.
>
> Dan
>

No that's not what I would want. I don't know about you, but I think I
could spend the money better so that it would stimulate the economy and
improve the lives of lots of regular people rather than to have the rich
put people to work building luxuries for them. For example, what you
suggest is that having someone like Saddam Hussein build a whole lot of
palaces and blowing money on gambling, living it up, and buying
extravagances for himself, his family, and his friends would be money
better spent than having a responsible government put that money to work
for the common good. Is that right? Because I think not only me but
almost anyone could put better use of surplus money for the good of the
country than a few insanely rich people could just spending lavishly on
their own whims. I mean, what's money for when you already have
everything you could want? Beyond that point why not give it up for the
good of your country?

Hawke

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 11:20 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

Wes wrote:
> Ignoramus31024 <ignoramus31024@NOSPAM.31024.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Not too surprising, considering that the stock market, bonds and
>> commodities all rallied in 2009, and the managers are paid 20% for
>> all gains (and 2% for losses). I personally would never invest on
>> such terms, but that is just me.
>
> 2% on losses? That is insane. One could make good money on a big
> loss.
>

Here is another gimmick.

An investor ( a big one like Citi ) wishes to purchase $1M in Mortgage Bonds
yielding 4.5%. This would provide $45,000 as an annual return. In order to
make the purchase, the investor puts up only 10% of $1M, or $100,000 in
cash - and borrows the other $900,000 at the Fed Funds Rate + 2%, for
example - which would be a borrowing cost of 2.25% or $20,250. This investor
receives a $45,000 return, but subtracts a $20,250 cost to borrow $900,000 -
leaving them with a net return of $24,750. Remember, the investor needed
only to invest 10% of the $1M purchase - or $100,000 in cash. This gives the
investor a whopping 24.75% return on their investment in a boring little old
Mortgage Bond. And of course, this "carry trade" can be used in other
securities as well.

--
John R. Carroll

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 10:28 pm
From: Hawke

On 4/5/2010 7:42 PM, Buerste wrote:
> "Hawke"<davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
> news:hpdaev$8od$1@speranza.aioe.org...
> <snip>
>> Does anyone actually deserve 400 million dollars? What's the point of
>> having that kind of money in the first place? Once you have all the
>> necessities of life covered everything else is just for useless luxuries
>> and doesn't do anything for you. Might as well let the government take
>> that surplus and use it for the common good. I would be glad to give up
>> that money if I were in his shoes. That's better than having one person
>> just buy himself more houses, cars, jewelry, and other crap rich people
>> buy because they have nothing better to do with their time.
>>
>> Hawke
>
> I've tried to explain it to you many times, you refuse to understand.
> One-more-time:
>
> People with money put that money to work! That money puts people to work!
> You want to dump it into the Government pit where there is no
> accountability, no efficiency, no progress. Oh, and did I mention, no
> accountability?
>
> All the rich people I know don't live lavishly, spend carefully and demand
> value for each and every cent. I know a couple of people that are
> billionaires, one co-signed bank loans for me when I needed it 12 years ago
> and are long since paid off. They invest in companies that hire people, buy
> materials and create MORE wealth. The cycle continues. Each payroll dollar
> circulates seven times in a community. Also, the more wealth someone has,
> the more philanthropy they do.
>
> Never mind, I know this is beyond your Neo-Socialist talking points that you
> limit your thoughts to.
>
>
>
> You ways don't create, just consume.
>
>

Your problem is that your beliefs just don't comport with reality. To
you having the rich own most of the country's wealth is a good thing
because they put the money to work by investing it and by spending it.
That sounds good but the reality is the money is not well spent when
only a small portion of the population has most of it. Look anywhere
around the world you want and when a country's wealth is held by a small
fraction of the people you don't have a good country. It has always been
an American value that a strong and financially well off middle class is
what made the country better than any other country in the world. Yet
conservative policies have allowed that to get out of whack. The small
group that is controlling most of the country's wealth is not putting it
to it's highest and best use. They now invest in other countries, not
ours. Their money goes anywhere the rate of return is the highest. So
your old fashioned views are not valid in this century. It's just like
charity. The theory is that all you need to do is let people contribute
voluntarily when the need arises and it will be sufficient to deal with
a problem. But look at something like Katrina. No way could voluntary
giving by the wealthy be enough to handle the problem. So government has
to do the job. Besides, it's a well known fact that overall the wealthy
are cheapskates and don't contribute jack shit to charities. I seem to
remember that the average rate for charitable contributions by the rich
is about 1%. So maybe it's time for you to quit reciting fairy tales
from days of old and learn the facts for a change.

Hawke

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TOPIC: A new "constitutional right"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8e77e80070fe5b42?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 11:08 pm
From: Hawke

>>> Not me, I am a little old.
>>
>> Didn't you hear about some of the old farts that military was taking
>> into the service during the Iraq war? I saw some folks that were in
>> their seventies. Old people have always participated in wars.
>
> Mostly voluntarily. I seriously doubt many of them were conscripted.

This was back when the Iraq war was young so it was a number of years
ago. But I recall seeing some really old people being recalled for
service. The point is still valid though. If the government needs you it
can and will conscript you.

> In the
>> last days of the Nazi regime when the Russians were taking Berlin all
>> they were fighting were teen age boys and old men. Old men have gotten
>> in on the fun for thousands of years. You could drive a vehicle or fire
>> a M2 from a half track couldn't you? I bet you could, so we could use
>> you in a pinch.
>
> And I would volunteer to be there, however, as I noted above, I seriously
> doubt that the government would draft me.

So do I but then we aren't in a state like Russia was when the Nazis
were invading. If we faced something like that you shouldn't be
surprised to be drafted as well as everything you own of value to the
war effort.

>>> And if you don't pay the fine....are they simply gonna pat you on the
>>> head and tell you that you are forgiven? I don't think so. If they
>>> charge anyone with a fine but don't collect on it, then their fine is
>>> meaningless. That would make it so that no one has to buy healthcare
>>> insurance.

All I know is what I saw and they were reading the transcript directly
from the bill.

>> I think I saw this on the ED show. They had the actual bill and the
>> passage about the fine for not paying was spelled out as a fine and it
>> specifically said nothing else could be done if you didn't pay it.
>
> The actual bill is online if you wish to point out that part where is
> states specifically that nothing will be done if you don't pay the fine.
> Take all the screens you need. Do you need a URL?
>
> The bill:
>
> http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:HR03590:
>
> The amendments:
>
> http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H.R.4872:

Sorry but I don't have the time or inclination to pore over a 2,000 page
bill to find a specific passage that I can show you when I already saw
with my own eyes what it said. If you don't believe it you can look it up.

> I saw
>> it myself so I know what it said. And you're right it basically had no
>> enforcement of the fines whatsoever. I don't know if that was
>> intentional or not though but I suspect it was.
>
> Makes it rather difficult to mandate then doesn't it.

Sounds more like a request than a mandate.

>>>> Does the government have the legitimate power to make you buy
>>>> insurance or pay a tax? Yeah, it does. But I'm pretty sure this is
>>>> only an interim health care fix and it will be considerably altered
> in
>>>> the future. I don't think this "mandate" to buy insurance is going to
>>>> work.
>>>
>>> I don't either.....but it is there.
>>
>> I think they put it in just to get the ball rolling and eventually they
>> will add a public option.
>
> Sooner or later......the problem is funding. Medicare/Medicaid, Social
> Security and interest on the debt are already over 60% of the budget.
> Social Security (if all the IOUs are paid) is calculated to go insolvent
> by 2035, Medicare/Medicaid by 2017 and that is with only 42 million folks
> covered. What do you think that bill will be if it (or one like it) is
> extended to over 300 million people?

The public is completely unrealistic. They want champagne but aren't
even willing to pony up enough for beer. They want the social programs.
They like them. They just don't want to pay for them. Sooner or later
they are going to have to decide if they want to pay for them or not.
The free ride on the credit card is over. However, everyone will be
better off if they decide to bite the bullet and pay for those programs.
Without them the country would suck.

>>> The insurance companies are going to find ways to screw the
>>>> public anyway.
>>>
>>> Oh, yes, those bad old capitalists. Good thing we have a government
> to
>>> rein them in. Not a damn one of them is any good. They are all out
> to
>>> screw everyone. Not biased a bit, are you, Hawke?
>>
>> No, I'm not. I'm just going on the facts as told by a guy who used to
> be
>> a high up executive with one of the huge insurance companies. I think
>> his name is Wendell Potter and he was a big shot executive for Cigna.
> He
>> no longer works for them and instead spills the beans about everything
>> they have done and are still doing. But he has said nothing new to me.
> I
>> know what a business is for and that the best way to profit in the
>> health insurance business is to reduce claims and eliminate people who
>> have a lot of health care problems. It's not personal it's just
> business
>> and that's true. But that doesn't mean the companies are not
> coldhearted
>> and ruthless capitalists who would do anything for a profit. I mean,
>> isn't that what the stockholders demand of a company? Make as much as
>> profit as possible and the heck with anything else, like the needs of
>> sick people. I just call them like I see them and the insurance
>> companies don't have much to be proud of in my book aside from being
>> very profitable.
>
> And that can be controlled by legislation. It didn't need the Healthcare
> bill.

Really? If the republicans didn't control those companies when they had
the power to do it, and the Democrats could barely get minimal health
care reforms passed, so why would you think they could pass any rules
that would control the insurance companies? The insurance companies have
been telling the congress what to do for years now not the other way around.

>>> Eventually, the government is going to have to offer a
>>>> public option or the insurance companies will just keep finding ways
>>>> to cheat us. For now this is an improvement, not a big one, but at
>>>> least it's a little better.
>>>
>>> Then you can have the government and its bureaucracy cheat us.....or
> is
>>> that just a capitalist thing?
>>
>> Why do capitalists cheat anyone? Simple, to make more money. Government
>> collects taxes and prints money so they don't need to make any money
> off
>> us.
>
> Whoa, if the government needs money it should just print some? Does the
> term Duetschmark mean anything to you?

You missed the point. The government doesn't have to sell a good or
service to make a profit like companies do. All they have to do is
collect taxes. Which is completely different. As is the situation in
post WWI Germany and current America. The comparison is not valid.

> It has as much as it needs. So why would it need to cheat us?
>
> How about a 12 trillion dollar debt?
>
> http://www.federalbudget.com/

The debt is just uncollected taxes. Nobody got cheated. In fact, the
government was being too nice and giving out things and not collecting
the taxes to pay for them. That is going to come to an end as we all
knew it had to.

> The
>> incentive for government is nothing like the incentives for
> capitalists.
>> So yeah, cheating you out of stuff is just a capitalist thing. But then
>> in this case I am only talking about the government that affects you.
>> Has it really cheated you out of anything? Has any business?
>
> It has made my money worth less and less.

But it has also helped improve a country that is still the best in the
world, which is to your advantage and it has made a country where your
wealth and standard of living has probably more than kept up with
inflation. So your answer is that your government has never
intentionally cheated you out of any money. You didn't answer about any
businesses that have cheated you so I'll take that as an admission
you've been had over the years by your share of unscrupulous businesses,
just like all the rest of us have.

Hawke

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 11:27 pm
From: Hawke

>>> Huh? Just because the public wants something makes it constitutional?
>>> Is that really your understanding of how it works?
>>
>>
>> In the end that is how it works. Anything that five members of the
>> Supreme Court say is constitutional means it's constitutional. My point
>> is that whenever a vast majority of Americans want something at least
>> five of those justices will eventually come out agreeing with the
>> people. Or they will be replaced and new justices that agree with the
>> public will be appointed. You have to understand that the constitution
>> is really just a documentary expression of the will of the people. They
>> can change it any way they want. So if the people really want something
>> it's pretty hard for that thing not to some day be found to be
>> "constitutional". As for how I understand how it works, I'm a trained
>> paralegal and I took constitutional law as part of my legal training. So
>> I do know far better than most how the thing works. I was just cutting
>> to the chase in what I said earlier.
>>
>> Hawke
>>
> So in reality you saying the same thing G.W. did, it's just a damn
> piece of paper?

No, I'm not saying that. It all depends on who is in charge of enforcing
it. If they are good people then the constitution works, if they are
crooked then it's not worth the paper it's written on. It's not a bible
or koran so it isn't the word of a supernatural being. It's a work of
man and it's got good and bad points. It mainly depends on the quality
of the people in power because by itself it is just a piece of paper.
It's all about what the people decide to do with it that counts. In and
of itself it's just a legal document, but in the hands of the right
people it's something really important. So overall, it's not just some
damn piece of paper. It's a lot more than that. But I'm not surprised
that "W" didn't understand that.

Hawke

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jon Banquer invades VX Forum
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8c4c0e70a6085103?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 6 2010 12:43 am
From: Cliff

On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 22:25:07 -0500, "Steve Mackay" <mackay.steve@att.net> wrote:

>
>
>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>news:125ir5tcb7d5nvfnlnauqsq958b9dh006s@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 12:20:38 -0500, "Steve Mackay" <mackay.steve@att.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Anne Onime" <anonymous@rip.ax.lt> wrote in message
>>>news:e578a024d210c636dc95822c1e99f63d@rip.ax.lt...
>>>> Well, it was only a matter of time.
>>>>
>>>> WordPress shut down Banquer's Blog for MULTIPLE TOS violations so he
>>>> decided to invade the VX forum.
>>>>
>>>> VX only recently made it open to anyone who registers.
>>>>
>>>> I give it a couple of weeks before Cliff shows up over there and starts
>>>> shitting all over the place.
>>>>
>>>> VX is in a world of hurt already.
>>>> They have effectively ZERO US market share and are currently looking for
>>>> a
>>>> buyer.
>>>>
>>>> Now they get to deal with Babble-on-Jon's rants about what software
>>>> should
>>>> be.
>>>>
>>>> Oy Vey!
>>>
>>>There's no political content in the VX Forum. Why would Cliffie the cross
>>>posting monkey want to go there?
>>
>>
>> http://www.vx.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=802&highlight_key=y
>> "Famous for comments and pontifications on software he does not own or
>> use"
>> "Go away Jon and don't come back."
>>
>> They had his number from the very beginning and he refused to answer
>> their
>> very civil questions:
>> "Can you please advise the forum if you are a VX user, since when and
>> what do
>> you use it for?"
>> "For our interest you might also include a list of other CAD/CAM software
>> you
>> use a professionally."
>> "And could you also please explain why 'not saying bad things' about the
>> competition doesn't thrill you?"
>>
>>
>> (& got snooty about them):
>> "I've ignored all of what I feel are irrelevant personal questions you
>> asked
>> me as I feel they have no place in this forum. It's my opinion that this
>> forum
>> should be about VX and not about personal attacks"
>>
>> Note that HE was demanding that THEY say "bad things" !!!
>> --
>> Cliff
>
>
>What does Jon's posts have to do with VX's lack of political content?

Why not just play "Spot the Idiot"?
On the one hand we have wingers.
Then we have jb.

Hard choice, eh?

>I know, typical Cliffy infantile try at redirection.

How long til he gets banned?

>Or are you just mad that you wont get away with humping his leg?

You might never know any posts of mine <G>.
But what will prompt his next meltdown?
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT:Teabaggers...serious...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1c8b1deed9e36f58?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 6 2010 1:01 am
From: Cliff

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 10:38:37 -0700, sittingduck <duck@spamherelots.com> wrote:

>the blatant hypocrisy within the GOP

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0410/Shadow_RNC_seeks_50_million.html
"Shadow RNC seeks $50 million"
[
Chris Cillizza reports this morning that Ed Gillespie's new operation, American
Crossroads, says it aims to raise $50 million, setting it up as a direct
competitor to the embattled Republican National Committee.
....
]

BTW, Seems like Palin just came out AGAINST off-shore drilling ....
--
Cliff

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Tuesday, April 6, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 18 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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