twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 15 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - Hyperinflation as a goal?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5baf0df42579e249?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 5:44 pm
From: "dcaster@krl.org"

On Apr 5, 2:41 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:

> If you know of an exception, I'd love to hear it.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress

My two grandneices are being homeschooled. Parents are not average.
Father has a masters or phd. I think mother only has a AB, but might
have a masters. They are in Alaska where the state provides lots of
help to kids being home schooled. I am confident the parents are able
to make better decisions on subject matter than the education
bureaucrats.

Dan

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 6:02 pm
From: F. George McDuffee

On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 05:42:32 -0700 (PDT), "dcaster@krl.org"
<dcaster@krl.org> wrote:

>On Apr 4, 12:43 am, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> > Oh, come on, Dan. We aren't talking about 15 students versus 30. We're
>> > talking about *one on one* versus mass classes.
>> > Ed Huntress
>> >I do not think it makes any difference.
>> I do. Wanna' fight? <g>
>Whatever. But you are not likely to change my mind. So what's the
>point?
>> Meantime, based on the data, it takes 22 times as many teachers to teach a
>> given group of home-schooled students as to teach a given group of
>> publically educated students. That's pretty piss-poor productivity.
>As far as I can tell public schools do not have productivity as a
>goal.

This raises the critical question of "effectiveness" v
"efficiency," what the goals/objectives are/should be, who sets
these goals/objectives, what the baselines are, and how these
goals/objectives are measured.

>> > Also the kids are motivated to do well because they are
>> >doing it for their parents.
>> Pure speculation on your part.
>Absolutely, but certainly very likely. I doubt that most kids love
>their teachers more than their parents.
>> > They would not be as motivated to work as
>> >hard for a teacher, even if it was a one on one situation.
>> See above.
>>
> Dan
==============

A critical part of the discussion is the meaning of "education."
It is a noun or a verb, a product or a process?

It is also well to remember there are several stages or levels,
as well as types of "education." The most widely used is called
Bloom's Taxonomy.
http://www.sos.net/~donclark/hrd/bloom.html and there are two
other educational domains besides the cognitive domain [affective
and psychomotor]
http://www.sos.net/~donclark/hrd/bloom.html
http://officeport.com/edu/blooms.htm
http://officeport.com/edu/bloomq.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_Taxonomy

Bloom's most basic cognitive stage is "knowledge" (name, list and
identify). This is easily measured and implemented, and large
numbers of students can be "instructed" by a single teacher.
This is also the level stressed by "No Child Left Behind" as it
is the basis for the standardized multiple choice "objective"
tests.

The higher cognitive levels such as "synthesis" and "evaluation"
are much more difficult to teach/learn/transfer, and at this
point the maxim that most of what knowledge/skills/abilities we
use as adults is the result of observation and imitation becomes
fully operational.

Without specifying which domain and what level you are assuming,
this discussion is going nowhere.

Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 6:02 pm
From: "dcaster@krl.org"

On Apr 5, 11:36 am, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:

> It works because it costs the economy something like $30,000 in lost
> productivity for every capable worker who spends his or her time teaching
> one or two kids. That works out to something like an extra $700,000 for each
> average classroom. Again, normed for demographics, the result is roughly the
> same each way.
>
> The percentage of families with kids who have only one parent working is
> approximately 30%. Among those who home-school, it's 60%.

Is your figures adjusted for demographics? I would think that higher
educated parents would have a higher percentage of only one parent
working.

>
> In other words, home-schooling may be the stupidest economic move anyone
> ever made in education.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress

Home schooling can be an excellent economic move. If one parent makes
about $100,000 a year ( Senior engineer wages ) then having the other
parent work is not much if any benefit. The alternate minimum tax
takes a lot of what is earned, and there are additional expenses as
child care.

Having both parents work when there are children under the age of ten
may be the stupidest decision.

Dan

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 6:02 pm
From: F. George McDuffee

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 14:00:34 -0500, Ignoramus25832
<ignoramus25832@NOSPAM.25832.invalid> wrote:
<SNIP>
>Actually, the "treasury bond" (I assume you meant T-bill) rate is
>extremely low, at the moment, and is not the way for banks to make
>money.
<SNIP>
#1 This may not be for the banks at all, the banks being simply a
vehicle.

#2 You are forgetting the magic of fractional banking. For every
1$ in deposits the banks can make 10$ [or more] in loans,
particularly when the collateral is AAA rated as Treasuries
currently are. The treasury then loans the FRB a dollar to
repeat the cycle.

Every time you go through a cycle you multiply the nominal
"money" [and the return] by 10X.

1 cycle = 10X nominal Treasury interest
2 cycles = 100X nominal treasury interest
3 cycles = 1000X nominal Treasury interest
GT 4 cycles the lynchings/great cull starts.

THE "MAGIK MONEY MACHINE" IN OPERATION!!!!

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 6:02 pm
From: F. George McDuffee

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 19:08:05 -0400, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:

>Ignoramus25832 <ignoramus25832@NOSPAM.25832.invalid> wrote:
>
>>> When did bailing out banks become a liberal cause?
>>>
>>
>>I think that we have several people here, who confuse proper economic
>>analysis and informed, impartial thinking with a "liberal point of
>>view". Bailing out banks is something that was started under the Bush
>>administration, and this is a course of action that did not have
>>practical alternatives.
>
>Sadly while the conservative view would be 'let them be hoisted with their own petard'
>(sorry Shakespeare), I don't think GWB and his advisors thought conservatism was a suicide
>pact. On reflection, I think GWB did the right thing though I was all for breaking the
>stick off in their arses at the time.
>
>Wes
========
There is a significant difference between rescuing the banks and
rescuing the bankers.

While the least bad alternative appears to have been propping up
the banks [they are still not "rescued"], there appears to be no
justification for not having mass executive terminations "for
cause" which negates the "golden parachute" clauses in most
employment contracts as part of the "rescue."

How many of the accountable bankers are doing time for fraud
and/or tax evasion? How many bankers are under indictment? How
many bankers got a bonus?

What possible motivation/deterence against causing another crash
has been implemented?

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 7:03 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

<dcaster@krl.org> wrote in message
news:8a16a131-8583-4021-92cf-8df4716c3682@f13g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 5, 2:41 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:

> If you know of an exception, I'd love to hear it.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress

>My two grandneices are being homeschooled. Parents are not average.
>Father has a masters or phd. I think mother only has a AB, but might
>have a masters.

Well, I'm glad you pointed that out, Dan, since my statement was about
typical parents. <g>

> They are in Alaska where the state provides lots of
>help to kids being home schooled. I am confident the parents are able
>to make better decisions on subject matter than the education
>bureaucrats.

That's great. Now, which of those college graduates is staying home to
fulfill the roll of maybe 1/10 of a high-quality, highly-paid private school
teacher?

And how old are your grandneices?

--
Ed Huntress

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 7:52 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

<dcaster@krl.org> wrote in message
news:b4e15ef9-922f-4bd5-802e-4e9d9e0f04bc@v12g2000vbg.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 5, 11:36 am, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:

> It works because it costs the economy something like $30,000 in lost
> productivity for every capable worker who spends his or her time teaching
> one or two kids. That works out to something like an extra $700,000 for
> each
> average classroom. Again, normed for demographics, the result is roughly
> the
> same each way.
>
> The percentage of families with kids who have only one parent working is
> approximately 30%. Among those who home-school, it's 60%.

>Is your figures adjusted for demographics?

Nope.

> I would think that higher
>educated parents would have a higher percentage of only one parent
>working.

I would expect exactly the opposite.

>
> In other words, home-schooling may be the stupidest economic move anyone
> ever made in education.
>
> --
> Ed Huntress

>Home schooling can be an excellent economic move. If one parent makes
>about $100,000 a year ( Senior engineer wages ) then having the other
>parent work is not much if any benefit.

Huh? So money doesn't count after $100,000? If you feel that way, and if you
have any to spare, it counts a hell of a lot to me, and would be much
appreciated. d8-)

> The alternate minimum tax
>takes a lot of what is earned, and there are additional expenses as
>child care.

Dan, you're reaching, m'man.

>Having both parents work when there are children under the age of ten
>may be the stupidest decision.

Hey, if they're such capable teachers, have one of them work in their
child's school. That's how my wife got started.

--
Ed Huntress

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 7:54 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"F. George McDuffee" <gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
news:9m0lr5h6btg4tig0kemoq86bnoa73hkikr@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 05:42:32 -0700 (PDT), "dcaster@krl.org"
> <dcaster@krl.org> wrote:
>
>>On Apr 4, 12:43 am, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>> > Oh, come on, Dan. We aren't talking about 15 students versus 30. We're
>>> > talking about *one on one* versus mass classes.
>>> > Ed Huntress
>>> >I do not think it makes any difference.
>>> I do. Wanna' fight? <g>
>>Whatever. But you are not likely to change my mind. So what's the
>>point?
>>> Meantime, based on the data, it takes 22 times as many teachers to teach
>>> a
>>> given group of home-schooled students as to teach a given group of
>>> publically educated students. That's pretty piss-poor productivity.
>>As far as I can tell public schools do not have productivity as a
>>goal.
>
> This raises the critical question of "effectiveness" v
> "efficiency," what the goals/objectives are/should be, who sets
> these goals/objectives, what the baselines are, and how these
> goals/objectives are measured.

The homeschoolers based it on standardized testing. Once those tests are
normed, the effect is zero.

I would expect a very large advantage for younger kids who are
home-schooled, because of the closer attention that can be paid to each kid,
but it doesn't happen.

--
Ed Huntress

>
>>> > Also the kids are motivated to do well because they are
>>> >doing it for their parents.
>>> Pure speculation on your part.
>>Absolutely, but certainly very likely. I doubt that most kids love
>>their teachers more than their parents.
>>> > They would not be as motivated to work as
>>> >hard for a teacher, even if it was a one on one situation.
>>> See above.
>>>
>> Dan
> ==============
>
> A critical part of the discussion is the meaning of "education."
> It is a noun or a verb, a product or a process?
>
> It is also well to remember there are several stages or levels,
> as well as types of "education." The most widely used is called
> Bloom's Taxonomy.
> http://www.sos.net/~donclark/hrd/bloom.html and there are two
> other educational domains besides the cognitive domain [affective
> and psychomotor]
> http://www.sos.net/~donclark/hrd/bloom.html
> http://officeport.com/edu/blooms.htm
> http://officeport.com/edu/bloomq.htm
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloom%27s_Taxonomy
>
> Bloom's most basic cognitive stage is "knowledge" (name, list and
> identify). This is easily measured and implemented, and large
> numbers of students can be "instructed" by a single teacher.
> This is also the level stressed by "No Child Left Behind" as it
> is the basis for the standardized multiple choice "objective"
> tests.
>
> The higher cognitive levels such as "synthesis" and "evaluation"
> are much more difficult to teach/learn/transfer, and at this
> point the maxim that most of what knowledge/skills/abilities we
> use as adults is the result of observation and imitation becomes
> fully operational.
>
> Without specifying which domain and what level you are assuming,
> this discussion is going nowhere.
>
>
> Unka George (George McDuffee)
> ..............................
> The past is a foreign country;
> they do things differently there.
> L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
> The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Democrats pull in more cash for campaigns than GOP
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/ff3e7d156cc158b5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 5:52 pm
From: wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 20:11:46 -0400, Deucalion <someone@nowhere.net>
wrote:

>On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 07:38:03 -0700, wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 04:15:51 +0000 (UTC), Curly Surmudgeon
>><CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 20:35:13 -0500, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 09:03:28 -0700 (PDT), RONSERESURPLUS
>>>> <ronseresurplus@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Apr 4, 5:14?am, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/03/
>>>AR201...
>>>>>> ? "Democrats pull in more cash for campaigns than GOP" [
>>>>>> ....
>>>>>> Eight months before congressional elections, House and Senate
>>>>>> Democratic candidates lead in nearly every important campaign
>>>>>> fundraising category. Democratic House sNIPPED FOR BULLSHIT CONTENT!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>YEA CLIFF, YOU JUST KEEP TELING YOURSELF THAT WHEN NOV COMES AND THE
>>>>>MAJORITY OF THAT PACK OF RABBEL IS SENT PACKING, DITTO LORD OBAMA WHO
>>>>>WILL BE GIVEN HIS EVECTION PAPERS IN 2012 Snoopy could run against him
>>>>>and win! LOL
>>>>
>>>> Why the caps? Are you that easy to rile? Get control of yourself, man.
>>>>>
>>>>> Al the assholes Rino and DEm who Voted for This Health Crae
>>>>>abononation, as wel as Cap and tax, and so many More Socalist Moves BYE
>>>>>BYE!!!
>>>>
>>>> What grade did you complete?
>>>
>>>Ron is unique.
>>
>>In some ways he sure is. But the underlying sentiment is all too
>>typical of millions, including a whole bunch who post here. They hate
>>"abononations" of all sorts. My favorite is still the death panels.
>>Why aren't the Rons of the world taking specific action to abolish
>>those? Seems like a worthwhile thing to complain about, and yet...
>>silence. Their grannies are getting uplugged, and the only thing
>>they're doing about it is writing Usenet posts and experimenting with
>>caps lock!? WTF? :-)
>>
>>> Watch and enjoy the mental breakdown...
>>
>>Sounds like you believe that he could slip further from reality. Which
>>begs the question: if his head fell off, would his body continue to
>>post?
>
>I did see an article about another chicken who lived quite a while
>without it's head. Let me look it up. BRB.
>
>OK. Here it is. It was Mike the headless chicken and he lived for 18
>months after his beheading. So, I guess Ron could go for at least
>that long or possibly longer.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken

OK, that settles it. Some posters here need to show photos of
themselves holding up a current newspaper in order to prove that they
still have a head. However, note the following from the article:

"At the height of its popularity the chicken earned princely $4,500
USD per month ($50,000 in 2005 dollars)"

Therefore, ron and gummer can safely be exempted from the photo
requirement, since obviously they'd be making more money if they were
headless. We also know what to suggest now if either of them is
shameless enough to claim that they're doing the best they can.
Clearly there's an easy way for them to finally get "ahead". har har

Wayne

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 6:17 pm
From: Deucalion

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:52:36 -0700, wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:

>On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 20:11:46 -0400, Deucalion <someone@nowhere.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 07:38:03 -0700, wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 04:15:51 +0000 (UTC), Curly Surmudgeon
>>><CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 20:35:13 -0500, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 09:03:28 -0700 (PDT), RONSERESURPLUS
>>>>> <ronseresurplus@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Apr 4, 5:14?am, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/03/
>>>>AR201...
>>>>>>> ? "Democrats pull in more cash for campaigns than GOP" [
>>>>>>> ....
>>>>>>> Eight months before congressional elections, House and Senate
>>>>>>> Democratic candidates lead in nearly every important campaign
>>>>>>> fundraising category. Democratic House sNIPPED FOR BULLSHIT CONTENT!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>YEA CLIFF, YOU JUST KEEP TELING YOURSELF THAT WHEN NOV COMES AND THE
>>>>>>MAJORITY OF THAT PACK OF RABBEL IS SENT PACKING, DITTO LORD OBAMA WHO
>>>>>>WILL BE GIVEN HIS EVECTION PAPERS IN 2012 Snoopy could run against him
>>>>>>and win! LOL
>>>>>
>>>>> Why the caps? Are you that easy to rile? Get control of yourself, man.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Al the assholes Rino and DEm who Voted for This Health Crae
>>>>>>abononation, as wel as Cap and tax, and so many More Socalist Moves BYE
>>>>>>BYE!!!
>>>>>
>>>>> What grade did you complete?
>>>>
>>>>Ron is unique.
>>>
>>>In some ways he sure is. But the underlying sentiment is all too
>>>typical of millions, including a whole bunch who post here. They hate
>>>"abononations" of all sorts. My favorite is still the death panels.
>>>Why aren't the Rons of the world taking specific action to abolish
>>>those? Seems like a worthwhile thing to complain about, and yet...
>>>silence. Their grannies are getting uplugged, and the only thing
>>>they're doing about it is writing Usenet posts and experimenting with
>>>caps lock!? WTF? :-)
>>>
>>>> Watch and enjoy the mental breakdown...
>>>
>>>Sounds like you believe that he could slip further from reality. Which
>>>begs the question: if his head fell off, would his body continue to
>>>post?
>>
>>I did see an article about another chicken who lived quite a while
>>without it's head. Let me look it up. BRB.
>>
>>OK. Here it is. It was Mike the headless chicken and he lived for 18
>>months after his beheading. So, I guess Ron could go for at least
>>that long or possibly longer.
>>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken
>
>OK, that settles it. Some posters here need to show photos of
>themselves holding up a current newspaper in order to prove that they
>still have a head. However, note the following from the article:
>
> "At the height of its popularity the chicken earned princely $4,500
>USD per month ($50,000 in 2005 dollars)"
>
>Therefore, ron and gummer can safely be exempted from the photo
>requirement, since obviously they'd be making more money if they were
>headless. We also know what to suggest now if either of them is
>shameless enough to claim that they're doing the best they can.
>Clearly there's an easy way for them to finally get "ahead". har har

RON and gunner probably don't make $4,500/month in 2005 dollars
(welfare excluded of course).

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 8:27 pm
From: Curly Surmudgeon

On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 21:17:02 -0400, Deucalion <someone@nowhere.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:52:36 -0700, wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 20:11:46 -0400, Deucalion <someone@nowhere.net>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 07:38:03 -0700, wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 04:15:51 +0000 (UTC), Curly Surmudgeon
>>>><CurlySurmudgeon@live.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 20:35:13 -0500, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 09:03:28 -0700 (PDT), RONSERESURPLUS
>>>>>> <ronseresurplus@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Apr 4, 5:14?am, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
>>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>>> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/03/
>>>>>AR201...
>>>>>>>> ? "Democrats pull in more cash for campaigns than GOP" [ ....
>>>>>>>> Eight months before congressional elections, House and Senate
>>>>>>>> Democratic candidates lead in nearly every important campaign
>>>>>>>> fundraising category. Democratic House sNIPPED FOR BULLSHIT
>>>>>>>> CONTENT!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>YEA CLIFF, YOU JUST KEEP TELING YOURSELF THAT WHEN NOV COMES AND
>>>>>>>THE MAJORITY OF THAT PACK OF RABBEL IS SENT PACKING, DITTO LORD
>>>>>>>OBAMA WHO WILL BE GIVEN HIS EVECTION PAPERS IN 2012 Snoopy could
>>>>>>>run against him and win! LOL
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why the caps? Are you that easy to rile? Get control of yourself,
>>>>>> man.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Al the assholes Rino and DEm who Voted for This Health Crae
>>>>>>>abononation, as wel as Cap and tax, and so many More Socalist Moves
>>>>>>>BYE BYE!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What grade did you complete?
>>>>>
>>>>>Ron is unique.
>>>>
>>>>In some ways he sure is. But the underlying sentiment is all too
>>>>typical of millions, including a whole bunch who post here. They hate
>>>>"abononations" of all sorts. My favorite is still the death panels.
>>>>Why aren't the Rons of the world taking specific action to abolish
>>>>those? Seems like a worthwhile thing to complain about, and yet...
>>>>silence. Their grannies are getting uplugged, and the only thing
>>>>they're doing about it is writing Usenet posts and experimenting with
>>>>caps lock!? WTF? :-)
>>>>
>>>>> Watch and enjoy the mental breakdown...
>>>>
>>>>Sounds like you believe that he could slip further from reality. Which
>>>>begs the question: if his head fell off, would his body continue to
>>>>post?
>>>
>>>I did see an article about another chicken who lived quite a while
>>>without it's head. Let me look it up. BRB.
>>>
>>>OK. Here it is. It was Mike the headless chicken and he lived for 18
>>>months after his beheading. So, I guess Ron could go for at least that
>>>long or possibly longer.
>>>
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_the_Headless_Chicken
>>
>>OK, that settles it. Some posters here need to show photos of themselves
>>holding up a current newspaper in order to prove that they still have a
>>head. However, note the following from the article:
>>
>> "At the height of its popularity the chicken earned princely $4,500
>>USD per month ($50,000 in 2005 dollars)"
>>
>>Therefore, ron and gummer can safely be exempted from the photo
>>requirement, since obviously they'd be making more money if they were
>>headless. We also know what to suggest now if either of them is
>>shameless enough to claim that they're doing the best they can. Clearly
>>there's an easy way for them to finally get "ahead". har har
>
> RON and gunner probably don't make $4,500/month in 2005 dollars (welfare
> excluded of course).

Combined.

--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Republican Party: Our Bridge to the 11th Century
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Newbie worn gear questions
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/746b0b20770a9bd0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 6:07 pm
From: "Paul Hovnanian P.E."

Excellent stuff. This is advice I can use (besides "Don't do it. Save
your sanity.").

--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
"Nothing Important Happened Today"
-- King George III, diary entry July 4, 1776

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Holy Gospel
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/01e9daa94f317ddd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 7:05 pm
From: Cliff

On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 20:03:35 -0400, Darrell Stec <darstec@neo.rr.com> wrote:

>Chief Egalitarian wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>> news:l31ir5dlhtatqels83hbak2a6lu5hri5ok@4ax.com...
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyLQIKl97Es
>>
>> trim
>
>Why are you nymshifting" Are you schizophrenic do do you have multiple
>personality disorder?

Restored groups list which the idiot had altered (so they could not
see any reply I assume).
--
Cliff

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:17 pm
From: "Chief Egalitarian"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:am5lr5ljlmjf8ocjhjp0r5aipq3ksqpubc@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 20:03:35 -0400, Darrell Stec <darstec@neo.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Chief Egalitarian wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>> news:l31ir5dlhtatqels83hbak2a6lu5hri5ok@4ax.com...
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyLQIKl97Es
>>>
>>> trim
>>
>>Why are you nymshifting" Are you schizophrenic do do you have multiple
>>personality disorder?
>
> Restored groups list which the idiot had altered (so they could not
> see any reply I assume).
> --
> Cliff

trim

==============================================================================
TOPIC: #OT# Recession is over!!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/be01c68a60161988?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 6:19 pm
From: "dcaster@krl.org"

On Apr 5, 2:34 pm, Hawke <davesmith...@digitalpath.net> wrote:

> Does anyone actually deserve 400 million dollars? What's the point of
> having that kind of money in the first place? Once you have all the
> necessities of life covered everything else is just for useless luxuries
> and doesn't do anything for you. Might as well let the government take
> that surplus and use it for the common good. I would be glad to give up
> that money if I were in his shoes. That's better than having one person
> just buy himself more houses, cars, jewelry, and other crap rich people
> buy because they have nothing better to do with their time.
>
> Hawke

So you want to take 400 million out of the economy and put out of work
all the carpenters, gardeners, architects, yacht builders, etc. And
then maybe have the government spend 400 million to stimulate the
economy.

Dan

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 7:42 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Hawke" <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
news:hpdaev$8od$1@speranza.aioe.org...
<snip>
> Does anyone actually deserve 400 million dollars? What's the point of
> having that kind of money in the first place? Once you have all the
> necessities of life covered everything else is just for useless luxuries
> and doesn't do anything for you. Might as well let the government take
> that surplus and use it for the common good. I would be glad to give up
> that money if I were in his shoes. That's better than having one person
> just buy himself more houses, cars, jewelry, and other crap rich people
> buy because they have nothing better to do with their time.
>
> Hawke

I've tried to explain it to you many times, you refuse to understand.
One-more-time:

People with money put that money to work! That money puts people to work!
You want to dump it into the Government pit where there is no
accountability, no efficiency, no progress. Oh, and did I mention, no
accountability?

All the rich people I know don't live lavishly, spend carefully and demand
value for each and every cent. I know a couple of people that are
billionaires, one co-signed bank loans for me when I needed it 12 years ago
and are long since paid off. They invest in companies that hire people, buy
materials and create MORE wealth. The cycle continues. Each payroll dollar
circulates seven times in a community. Also, the more wealth someone has,
the more philanthropy they do.

Never mind, I know this is beyond your Neo-Socialist talking points that you
limit your thoughts to.

You ways don't create, just consume.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A new "constitutional right"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8e77e80070fe5b42?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 7:10 pm
From: tankfixer

In article <59837bb4-c9d7-4775-8e21-
5192517f6c2c@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, rangerssuck@gmail.com
says...
>
> On Apr 4, 6:38�pm, tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > In article <a53ir5l06l8leoo6pg1kkfuk36bf0n5...@4ax.com>,
> > Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 11:22:01 -0700, tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >> >> � What unconstitutional law might that be?
> >
> > > >> >The McCann-Fiengold monstosity, but you knew that.
> >
> > > >> �http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan_Campaign_Reform_Act
> > > >> � "But, in December 2003, the Supreme Court upheld most of the legislation in
> > > >> McConnell v. FEC."
> > > >> [
> > > >> President Barack Obama expressed his concern over the Supreme Court's decision
> > > >> during his State of the Union speech, delivered January 27th, saying, "With all
> > > >> due deference to separation of powers, last week the Supreme Court reversed a
> > > >> century of law that I believe will open the floodgates for special interests ?-
> > > >> including foreign corporations ?- to spend without limit in our elections. I
> > > >> don't think American elections should be bankrolled by America's most powerful
> > > >> interests, or worse, by foreign entities. They should be decided by the American
> > > >> people. And I'd urge Democrats and Republicans to pass a bill that helps to
> > > >> correct some of these problems." President Obama also called the decision, "?a
> > > >> major victory for big oil, Wall Street banks, health insurance companies and the
> > > >> other powerful interests that marshal their power every day in Washington to
> > > >> drown out the voices of everyday Americans.?
> > > >> ]
> >
> > > >> � Hence it was indeed constitutional and you had something else in mind
> > > >> or are just willingly ignorant, as usual.
> >
> > > >Barack Obama only proved he isn't such a great constitutional scholar...
> >
> > > � You've never even read the thing, eh?
> >
> > The constitution ?
> > Sure, you might try it..
> > reminds me to send copies to my senators and congressman.. maybe to the
> > president too since they seem to have not consulted it recently
> >
> > > � Too many (and too big) words?
> >
> > Not many words at all..
> > I'm sure your mom can read it to you..
>
> Please state, for the record, precisely which parts of the
> Constitution your Senators, Congressman and President have violated.
>
> This ought to be fun.

Article 1, Section 8 along with the 10th ammendment.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Working class
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/facb62633a2f2005?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 7:14 pm
From: Winston_Smith

Dan <dnadan56@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Winston_Smith wrote:
>> hal wrote:
>>
>>> The man went to Harvard. Something you could never have done.
>>
>> Alas, I didn't have the mentors and political supporters he did.
>
>Nor the brains or any of the other myriad qualifies he had to qualify.
>That much is obvious.

There you go with your mindless, unsupported blather again.

0bama has refused to release his grades. You don't have a clue what
mine were. Yet in classic liberal fashion, you manage to make a
comparison and come to a conclusion.

>That being said, back in the day, there was a very good predictor of
>incipient Silicon Valley company failure: the hiring of their very first
>Harvard MBA...

The trouble is that THAT is not in my post. It's not part of anyone
else's post that I quoted. YOU cut it and pasted it from somewhere
else, into my post.

And you wonder why liberals are viewed with their credibility and
honesty under suspicion.

>Dan

__
WS in a.s and m.s
Two parties, not a dimes worth of difference.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Qualcomm's Competition Lured Jon Banquer Away?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/adbd506bd0bf6da3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 7:39 pm
From: Joe788

Talk talk, talk and talk
Talk talk, sweet talk
Talk talk, tough talk
Talk talk, dirty talk
Talk talk, walk and talk
Talk talk, big talk

Talk talk, talk and talk
Talk talk, smooth talk
Talk talk, body talk
Talk talk, back talk
Talk talk, small talk
Talk talk, baby talk
Talk talk, peace talk
Talk talk, bullshit

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jon Banquer invades VX Forum
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8c4c0e70a6085103?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 8:25 pm
From: "Steve Mackay"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:125ir5tcb7d5nvfnlnauqsq958b9dh006s@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 12:20:38 -0500, "Steve Mackay" <mackay.steve@att.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Anne Onime" <anonymous@rip.ax.lt> wrote in message
>>news:e578a024d210c636dc95822c1e99f63d@rip.ax.lt...
>>> Well, it was only a matter of time.
>>>
>>> WordPress shut down Banquer's Blog for MULTIPLE TOS violations so he
>>> decided to invade the VX forum.
>>>
>>> VX only recently made it open to anyone who registers.
>>>
>>> I give it a couple of weeks before Cliff shows up over there and starts
>>> shitting all over the place.
>>>
>>> VX is in a world of hurt already.
>>> They have effectively ZERO US market share and are currently looking for
>>> a
>>> buyer.
>>>
>>> Now they get to deal with Babble-on-Jon's rants about what software
>>> should
>>> be.
>>>
>>> Oy Vey!
>>
>>There's no political content in the VX Forum. Why would Cliffie the cross
>>posting monkey want to go there?
>
>
> http://www.vx.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=802&highlight_key=y
> "Famous for comments and pontifications on software he does not own or
> use"
> "Go away Jon and don't come back."
>
> They had his number from the very beginning and he refused to answer
> their
> very civil questions:
> "Can you please advise the forum if you are a VX user, since when and
> what do
> you use it for?"
> "For our interest you might also include a list of other CAD/CAM software
> you
> use a professionally."
> "And could you also please explain why 'not saying bad things' about the
> competition doesn't thrill you?"
>
>
> (& got snooty about them):
> "I've ignored all of what I feel are irrelevant personal questions you
> asked
> me as I feel they have no place in this forum. It's my opinion that this
> forum
> should be about VX and not about personal attacks"
>
> Note that HE was demanding that THEY say "bad things" !!!
> --
> Cliff

What does Jon's posts have to do with VX's lack of political content?
I know, typical Cliffy infantile try at redirection.

Or are you just mad that you wont get away with humping his leg?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: I need an idea on how to use scrap electrical conduit.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/de1a84b036e9498e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 6 2010 2:36 am
From: "DanG"

Karl, tape works well and should last the growing season. You can
tape wire or string ties to prevent the sliding.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgriff237@7cox.net

"Karl Townsend" <karltownsend.NOT@embarqmail.com> wrote in message
news:4bba384c$0$77565$892e0abb@auth.newsreader.octanews.com...
>>> Possible uses I have thought of:
>>> Rollers for a conveyor system.
>>> Wind chimes.
>>> Tent stakes.
>>>
>>> Anything?
>>>
>>> DL
>>
>> My uses include:
>>
>> tomato stakes
>> flea-market tarp frame
>> cheater bars
>>
>> I understand electricians use them somehow.
>
> I've got a pile of 7/8 conduit. maybe 500 ten footers. And i
> need to make tomtato stakes for 150 plants. I checked growers
> out in FL this winter. They use rebar with the advantage being
> the tying twine you run down the row doesn't slip - just loop
> and pull tight. Here I'm thinking buy rebar. How do you use
> conduit for tomato plants? Specifially, how do you tie to this
> slick stuff?
>
> karl
>
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Wiring garage lights
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/dbcc59ccb414e4b6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 8:35 pm
From: "Buerste"

I recovered five eight-foot 2-bulb fluorescent fixtures from my old garage
and want to mount them in my new garage. I can't find my code book at the
office after the last major cleaning and the mistake of adding a 250 sq ft
store room my office, it just collects MORE junk.

The garage is finished drywall. Do I need conduit? Can I use Greenfield?
I'm tempted to staple-up zip cord, I admit I did that at the old house.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - As Peaceful as a Tea Party -- The only person arrested in recent
days for threatening violence against a politician targeted Eric Cantor, the
No. 2 Republican in the House
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/82abfc98c616ee91?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 8:45 pm
From: Joseph Gwinn

In article <slrnhrifs4.o18.steve@sorceror.wizard.dyndns.org>,
Steve Ackman <steve@SNIP-THIS.twoloonscoffee.com> wrote:

> In <joegwinn-7FBC1C.18223502042010@news.giganews.com>, on Fri, 02 Apr 2010
> 18:22:35 -0400, Joseph Gwinn, joegwinn@comcast.net wrote:
> > I'm still thinking about the implications of needing machine-gun nests on
> > the roof of a newspaper building.
>
> I'm still trying to figure out what a "spent bullet" is.
>
> > A spent bullet also hit the window of Mr. Cantor's district headquarters
> > recently.

It was never made clear, but it seemed to be a bullet that was fired into a
water trap, which stops the bullet without damage, and then retrieved from the
trap.

But this has nothing to do with needing a brace of gatling guns on the roof to defend free speech.
The newsmen of yore were made of stern stuff indeed.

Joe Gwinn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Manufacturing is BOOMING in USA
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c816c7bd5e73ce02?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:16 pm
From: Eregon

"RogerN" <regor@midwest.net> wrote in
news:vvydnRovvb7G5ifWnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@earthlink.com:

> The Bible instructs on treatment of a slave but that does not
> necessarily mean God is pro slavery. Today we still have slavery but
> just a different form of it. Back then a slave worked and in return
> got food and shelter, I work so that I can have food and shelter.
> Some work and can barely afford food and shelter. If a slave refused
> to do his work he would get punished, if an employee refuses to do
> their work they get fired and are punished by not getting the money
> they need for their food and shelter.

Why don't you go to Nigeria and buy yourself a couple of REAL slaves?

Chattel slavery is still practiced in many parts of the world TODAY and
this practice is unlikely to stopped anytime soon.

Your complaint is the same as the slaves' that were freed by the
Constitutional Amendment. (The Emancipation Proclamation had no effect
upon the status of the many slaves held in Union States.) They had been
fed, clothed, housed, and doctored 12 months out of the year in return
for 6-9 months work and, suddenly, they found themselves having to
provide for themselves by working 12 months out of each year.

A giant difference between the Covenant's rules for slave keeping and
today's employment rules is that an employee can always quit a job and go
elsewhere whereas a male slave was to be given a ONE-TIME option to leave
after 7 years of servitude. This choice did NOT enable him to take with
him any wife that the owner had provided him or any children that he
might have sired. If the slave chose freedom then he was remitted and
sent on his way. If the slave chose to stay then he remained a slave for
life.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anyone in Contact with Matt?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/409cc80bd43f391b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:19 pm
From: Searcher7

Has anyone had contact with Matt Spynda this year.

I haven't been able to get a response via e-mail since the beginning
of February.

I wanted to send him money for the Star Wars stuff I sent to him to
repair, but I haven't gotten a to e-mails from two different accounts.

Thanks.

Darren Harris
Staten Island, New York.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: More fun at the RNC
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/4dd5be57ef8db267?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Mon, Apr 5 2010 9:19 pm
From: "Chief Egalitarian"

"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
news:gpujr5533ra93hcl8knuo2a8qie1075ra5@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 19:03:22 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian"
> <Egal@legal_egal.law>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>news:ig4ir5lajg44s2mndqs1men83eselcn91b@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 10:09:29 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian"
>>> <Egal@legal_egal.law>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>>>news:m6vdr5lag2r33cfc816jjhpu5jsu7qm497@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> Find those "WMDs" yet?
>>>
>>
>>Did you try looking up your asshole?
>
> Find those "WMDs" yet?
>
Well did you? Take a look!

==============================================================================

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Monday, April 5, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 15 topics - digest

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