twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 15 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Palin vs. Obama
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/adc173012f82af04?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 1:41 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Apr 20, 6:29 am, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
wrote:
> As far as I can tell Palin objects to Obama.
> He is not 100% white.
> He is very bright.
> It does not matter to Palin what the facts or subjects are. She
> knows nothing about any of them anyway & is not about
> to start learning anything now.
>
> He is not a crazed winger.
> --
> Cliff

I, like millions of other Americans, hope that Palin runs in 2012
against Obama.

It would be a Republican bloodbath.

TMT

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 11:35 am
From: RBnDFW

[Clitt and his drivel snipped]

RONSERESURPLUS wrote:

> Obama is VERY BRIGHT? About what, SOCALISM,, LENIN and STALIN?? Other
> than being a CHI Town Street thug, what does he know? LOL

There was a recent story that BHO and GWB have IQs essentially equal,
based on college entrance scores. That's the last we heard about BHOs
college records.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Shrinker/Stretcher
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/420ddf5167e9cdde?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 11:55 am
From: "Steve W."

Stu Fields wrote:
> Anyone out there with opinions on quality of different Shrinker/Stretchers?
>
>

What type? Sheet metal, pipe swaging/expanding? Hammer types, clamp style?

I have a high dollar pair that I've had a long time and a cheap pair
from HF. the only real difference is in the jaws. The high end pair have
VERY hard reversible jaws. The ones from HF are softer and seem to lose
bite faster. However I make my own replacements and now use good steel
and harden them myself so the soft jaws are gone.

Get the heads and make your own stand and foot controls. Cheaper that way.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do DC caps have an AC rating?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/760b531a89c203e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 10:59 am
From: Tim Wescott

Existential Angst wrote:
> Awl --
>
> Got some boards with bigazz 350 VDC caps.
> Don't quite understand the DC rating, as caps don't pass DC, but can be used
> to smooth rectified AC, etc.
> Are DC caps really different from AC caps?
>
> Can I use these, say, in an rpc?? If so, what would their AC voltage
> rating be?
>
> More specifrically, these are Sprague Powerlytic metal can caps, about 3"
> dia, 5" high.
> The numbers I see are 2500-350DC -- not 350VDC -- but is it safe to say
> these caps are 2500 uF at 350VDC?
> 2500 uF seems perty g-d big.....

Sorta kinda, but really no. And "AC" cap is a misnomer, although "AC
rated" is spot-on.

I hope that helps.

Oh hell, I'll expand:

All capacitors have a maximum voltage that they can withstand, from
which the ratings are derived. "AC" ratings are based on the maximum
expected instantaneous voltage that a cap is expected to see when the
line voltage is at the rated value. "DC" ratings are really
instantaneous ratings, and are more "real", if you will.

Those are electrolytic capacitors. You can tell by the name, and by the
small size for the capacitance. Electrolytic capacitors are essentially
_really crappy_ diodes* with a lot of junction capacitance and with
electrolytic goo (salts, water, and some sort of gell) as one of the
terminals. So they have _two_ behaviors to instantaneous voltages: the
desired one, where the 'diode' is reverse biased and you're using it as
a cap, and the other one, where the 'diode' is conducting, the
electrolytic is boiling, and the cap is about to undergo a steam explosion.

So you may not want to use them with AC, because within the first 1/60th
of a second they'll be fixing to explode -- and there's not much useful
work you can get out of an RPC in 1/60th of a second.

* In fact, you can take the same metals and chemical goo that you use to
make electrolytics, and make electrolytic diodes instead. They were
popular in the early 1900's before vacuum and mercury rectifiers came
down enough in cost to be feasible.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 11:08 am
From: Ignoramus3512

On 2010-04-20, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote:
> Existential Angst wrote:
>> Awl --
>>
>> Got some boards with bigazz 350 VDC caps.
>> Don't quite understand the DC rating, as caps don't pass DC, but can be used
>> to smooth rectified AC, etc.
>> Are DC caps really different from AC caps?
>>
>> Can I use these, say, in an rpc?? If so, what would their AC voltage
>> rating be?
>>
>> More specifrically, these are Sprague Powerlytic metal can caps, about 3"
>> dia, 5" high.
>> The numbers I see are 2500-350DC -- not 350VDC -- but is it safe to say
>> these caps are 2500 uF at 350VDC?
>> 2500 uF seems perty g-d big.....
>
> Sorta kinda, but really no. And "AC" cap is a misnomer, although "AC
> rated" is spot-on.
>
> I hope that helps.
>
> Oh hell, I'll expand:
>
> All capacitors have a maximum voltage that they can withstand, from
> which the ratings are derived. "AC" ratings are based on the maximum
> expected instantaneous voltage that a cap is expected to see when the
> line voltage is at the rated value. "DC" ratings are really
> instantaneous ratings, and are more "real", if you will.
>
> Those are electrolytic capacitors. You can tell by the name, and by the
> small size for the capacitance. Electrolytic capacitors are essentially
> _really crappy_ diodes* with a lot of junction capacitance and with
> electrolytic goo (salts, water, and some sort of gell) as one of the
> terminals. So they have _two_ behaviors to instantaneous voltages: the
> desired one, where the 'diode' is reverse biased and you're using it as
> a cap, and the other one, where the 'diode' is conducting, the
> electrolytic is boiling, and the cap is about to undergo a steam explosion.
>
> So you may not want to use them with AC, because within the first 1/60th
> of a second they'll be fixing to explode -- and there's not much useful
> work you can get out of an RPC in 1/60th of a second.

Very educational.

What if you connect two electrolytic capacitors in series, but with
polarities reversed?

+-...-+

Then the pair would not be able to conduct current in either
direction, but would be able to accept the charge?

> * In fact, you can take the same metals and chemical goo that you use to
> make electrolytics, and make electrolytic diodes instead. They were
> popular in the early 1900's before vacuum and mercury rectifiers came
> down enough in cost to be feasible.
>

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 11:33 am
From: stans4@prolynx.com

On Apr 20, 11:43 am, "Existential Angst" <UNfit...@UNoptonline.net>
wrote:
> Awl --
>
> Got some boards with bigazz 350 VDC caps.
> Don't quite understand the DC rating, as caps don't pass DC, but can be used
> to smooth rectified AC, etc.
> Are DC caps really different from AC caps?
>
> Can I use these, say, in an rpc?? If so, what would their AC voltage
> rating be?
>
> More specifrically, these are Sprague Powerlytic metal can caps, about 3"
> dia, 5" high.
> The numbers I see are 2500-350DC -- not 350VDC -- but is it safe to say
> these caps are 2500 uF at 350VDC?
> 2500 uF seems perty g-d big.....
> --
>
> EA

DC rating means exactly that. Yes, they'll pass AC, but they're
electrolytics built for DC PS filtering use. Probably are 2500 uF +-
50% or so. The more amps out of the power supply, the more
capacitance is needed. If you hook them up to AC, you'll get a big
boom as the electrolyte turns to steam. The dielectric on the
"plates" of the capacitor is the oxide film formed from the action of
the electrolyte on the aluminum foil. If you put AC on them, this
gets stripped and things get hot.

If they're more than a few years old, they're probably useless without
reforming. I use a Sprague cap test meter for this, runs up to 450v
and also reads leakage current. I usually start at about 1/4 of the
rated voltage and increase as the leakage current goes down, usually
takes 3-4 hours per step. If the current never goes down as time goes
on, it's a dud, time to go to the next one. Electrolytics are
fungible items, need to be changed out every so often as ESR and
leakage current increase. NOS aluminum caps may well be junk, they
don't age well even just sitting there.

AC caps either have oil-impregnated paper or solid insulator materials
for dielectric. If you need AC caps, buy AC-rated caps, DC
electrolytics aren't going to do it for you.

Stan

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 1:51 pm
From: Dave__67

On Apr 20, 1:43 pm, "Existential Angst" <UNfit...@UNoptonline.net>
wrote:
> Awl --
>
> Got some boards with bigazz 350 VDC caps.
> Don't quite understand the DC rating, as caps don't pass DC, but can be used
> to smooth rectified AC, etc.
> Are DC caps really different from AC caps?
>
> Can I use these, say, in an rpc?? If so, what would their AC voltage
> rating be?
>
> More specifrically, these are Sprague Powerlytic metal can caps, about 3"
> dia, 5" high.
> The numbers I see are 2500-350DC -- not 350VDC -- but is it safe to say
> these caps are 2500 uF at 350VDC?
> 2500 uF seems perty g-d big.....
> --
>
> EA

DC rating indicates that measuring from anode to cathode the voltage
can be 0 to +(rated volts), but that the voltage anode to cathode can
not be allowed to go negative.

In other words, DC indicates the allowable polarity/bias.

Using it as an AC cap will result in a short life, I believe, how
short depending on the actual type (electrolytic, etc).
The capacitance may not even be the same biased in reverse.

Reverse biasing an electrolytic can lead to near-instant dramatic
failure as an electrochemical reaction (in some) destroys the internal
plate-plate insulator.

Dave

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 2:33 pm
From: Jim Wilkins

On Apr 20, 2:08 pm, Ignoramus3512 <ignoramus3...@NOSPAM.3512.invalid>
wrote:
> ...
> What if you connect two electrolytic capacitors in series, but with
> polarities reversed?
>
> +-...-+
>
> Then the pair would not be able to conduct current in either
> direction, but would be able to accept the charge?
>
> > * In fact, you can take the same metals and chemical goo that you use to
> > make electrolytics, and make electrolytic diodes instead. They were
> > popular in the early 1900's before vacuum and mercury rectifiers came
> > down enough in cost to be feasible.-

Aluminum and tantalum electrolytics inadvertently installed backwards
may take a while to vent or explode. I've encountered a batch of
dipped tantalums that were marked backwards and ALL installed wrong.
The applied voltage was considerably lower than the rating and they
failed fairly quietly, blowing a chip out of the side with a muffled
POP. Electrolytics can also grenade and fill the air with caustic-
covered aluminum confetti.

Two connected back to back for AC should be bypassed with diodes, or
better just buy AC-rated ones.

DC caps have an AC ripple current related to permissible heating from
their Equivalent Series Resistance (ESR). Caps meant for linear power
supplies are cheaper and have a lower ripple current rating than ones
designed for switchers.

jsw

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Dos and Donts
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0c02fc5e0c905a5d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 1:52 pm
From: steamer

--Memory partly jogged. I've got aircraft and pressure vessels.
Anyone recall the other two?

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Blue Cross socks us
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : $23,000/yr!! ...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 2:12 pm
From: Ned Simmons

On 20 Apr 2010 20:52:12 GMT, steamer <steamer@sonic.net> wrote:

> --Memory partly jogged. I've got aircraft and pressure vessels.
>Anyone recall the other two?

Soliciting legal advice on usenet. <g>

--
Ned Simmons

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Oops .. someone goofed ....
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e1e26aa18f14598c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 12:19 pm
From: Jim Chandler

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 05:14:46 -0400, Cliff
<Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:

>On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:50:52 -0700, JR North <junkjasonrnorth@bigfoot.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Cut or get some uhmv 1/4" square rod, hopefully slightly oversize,heat
>>and press into the groove. Secure with CA.
>
> What is "CA"?
>

Cyanoacrylate also known as Superglue.

Jim

>>JR
>>Dweller in the cellar
>>
>>
>>tnik wrote:
>>
>>> On 4/19/2010 6:04 AM, Cliff wrote:
>>>
>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>> [
>>>> I've made an error turning a customers 12.5" dia x 40" long uhmw
>>>> plastic roller.
>>>> It has a "V" groove every inch (about 38) for the length. The V
>>>> grooves have a
>>>> flat bottom and we roughed them with a dogbone style insert. As we
>>>> plunged the
>>>> center material of the V groove, we cut .250" too deep. Plenty of
>>>> stock left on
>>>> the sides, but the center is too deep. Is there a process with heat,
>>>> like a
>>>> heated roller, that could be used to push the excess material into our
>>>> mistake?
>>>> The area that needs to be filled is roughly a 1/4" square groove.
>>>> ]
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, I'm going to guess that you can't because from what I've read, you
>>> can't mold UHMW which is in essence what you need to do to 'fill' in the
>>> groove.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: how to clamp pipe vertically to milling table?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c13f73f2cbeb77af?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 1:54 pm
From: steamer

--If you can move the head of the mill to somewhere other than the
top of the table you're golden. Clamp pipe to side of table, move head and
go for it. There's a very neat widget called a Verti Vise but it ain't
cheap..

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Blue Cross socks us
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : $23,000/yr!! ...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 3:06 pm
From: Jim Wilkins

On Apr 20, 1:40 pm, ze...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi. A newbie sort of question here: I want to clamp a sort section of
> 2" pipe vertically to my milling table, and then use a boring bar set
> to increase it's ID a tad. (I don't have access to a lathe.) How do
> I clamp it? Do they make some sort of chuck for this purpose? What
> is it called and where do I get one? If it makes a difference, I
> have an RF45 clone bench mill and a import 8" rotary table.
>
> --zeb

How sort is it? If only a few inches you could clamp it in the vise
between two vee blocks, or one and a piece of wood. Two blocks will
distort the pipe less. A diagonally braced cast iron angle plate is
likely the cheapest useful fixture you could buy for this and later
jobs.
http://www.allproducts.com/tool/qiaoshen/15-right_angle_plate.jpg

I prefer this type for precision work:
http://www.finelinehair.com/home/angle_plate_2.jpg
By laying it on its side round and square parts can be held precisely
upright in the inner corner.

jsw

==============================================================================
TOPIC: JB = Dip!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/cda39acc38ce8a14?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 11:35 am
From: "Existential Angst"

"Joe788" <joemama788@aol.com> wrote in message
news:801c7d65-a3b1-4b13-8b48-923520d8bb8b@q31g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 20, 12:05 am, Joe788 <larryro...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyvdMOQ3bhA&feature=related

JB musta got a fresh batch of meds. He's going through the "I want
people to think I'm hip so I'm going to post Youtube clips of rock"
stage. Unfortunately, at the drug induced euphoria wears off, this
"I'm hip" stage will quickly degrade into copy/paste/copy/paste spam
for his blog.

============================================

And to top it all off, Jon Banquer, Retired Theif of Qualcomm, has a taste
in music about as pedestrian as his cam knowledged is backwards.

God's purpose for putting people like jb on earth and in our midst is to
teach the rest of us how lucky we really are.
--
EA

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 11:33 am
From: "Existential Angst"

Nice, but I woulda thought http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH4-tOqLH94

Atten---HUT!!!

So Gummer, your cocksucker-front is really a disguise?! Yer really just a
mush, eh? :)
--
EA

>
>
>
> And while I was scratching around...actual photos of the inside of the
> Titanic on her maiden cruise..and after she was recently found..
>
> Interesting.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpaqmow4WCQ&feature=related
>
> Gunner
>

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 2:08 pm
From: Gunner Asch

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010 14:33:45 -0400, "Existential Angst"
<UNfitcat@UNoptonline.net> wrote:

Green Beanies are ok people, but they dont kill all that well. They are
known as School Teachers From Hell.

>
>Atten---HUT!!!
>
>So Gummer, your cocksucker-front is really a disguise?! Yer really just a
>mush, eh? :)

Son...most of those who have been/are/were military love music. Music
can organize the mind, sooth the soul, help one think and so forth.
Ive been military in more than one life, shrug..and a number of times
Ive marched to the pipes, and relaxed to the drone strings.
Head banger music is rather popular with the troops in the Middle East.
It helps focus and keeps the edge off.

This is one of my favorites..yet it IS martial in nature

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbwBahAh4Ps

Pay no attention to the video that comes with it. Simply listen to the
words.

"how many of them can we make die!"

Shrug..music has its own beauty, its own soul and resonates in every
persons center to some degree or another. And music of course has so
much variety..that someone can find whatever sooths their soul, or
raises the hair on the back of ones neck in anticipation.

I actually enjoy most kinds of music, with the sole exception of rap/hip
hop..which while technically is music...is oriented towards and
recommends the worst behavior possible.

Im currently listening to Shezerade..a Rimsky-Korsokov symphony as I
type this.

Gunner

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Solid state phase converter? Vintage....
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/645dee212f51d297?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 2:19 pm
From: Cross-Slide <3t3d@centurytel.net>

On Apr 20, 1:03 pm, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.now> wrote:
> Existential Angst wrote:
> > Awl --
>
> > How Vintage???
>
> > From Hurco KMB-1's, and obsolete even for THEM, as they are generally
> > swapped out in any still-existing kmb1s.
>
> > But goddamm, are these, like, the FIRST solid-state 3 ph converters?? I
> > have 3 boards from 3 machines, each weighs 45 lbs!!! Half of that is
> > transformer. Parametrics is the mfr, it seems.
>
> > These are the boards that have those very large caps, in my DC cap post.
>
> > Basically, there's two screw inputs for the single phase, and a three-screw
> > output for the 3 ph, rated, I think, 5 hp, by Parametrics. And apparently a
> > variable voltage, so they were proly the spindle drive boards.
>
> > There is a terminal strip with a bunch cut wires. Will these wires/their
> > components be necessary to operate this board, or can I expect to full 3 ph
> > power (230 V) when I connect the single phase?
>
> > I'll try this later, just curious what to expect..
>
> Then one hopes that those caps are properly rated for the service
> they're in. Certainly they're being used for DC-only -- the converter
> no doubt rectifies the AC, stores it with the caps, then generates three
> phase from the DC.
>
> It may even generate two-phase, and convert it to three with that
> transformer -- that'd save on semiconductors, which back then would have
> carried more weight than saving on a huge transformer.
>
> --
> Tim Wescott
> Control system and signal processing consultingwww.wescottdesign.com

Maybe it only needs to generate a single phase. The wild leg. The
other two phases are exactly the same as the single phase 240V coming
in anyway.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Republicans stand with Wall Street
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/785f20c50aa6ebb2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 2:23 pm
From: "John R. Carroll"

"RAM³" <s31924.nospam@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9D609DA14861Es31924netscapenet@74.209.131.10...
> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in
> news:2LudnQAkY85JbVDWnZ2dnUVZ_oKdnZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>> "John R. Carroll" wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>>>> "John R. Carroll" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Really? Your computer's clock is wrong, so learn how to set
>>>>>>> it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it?
>>>>>> It's the same as the computer set to NIST.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then your messages are showing up before they were posted.
>>>>
>>>> This was posted at 4:25 am.
>>>> What do you see?
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> John R. Carroll
>>>
>>>
>>> 8:26 AM
>>
>> Google and my three computers here have it at 4:26 am.
>> <shrug> Go figure.
>>
>> Is this a mistake one of us can learn from.
>> LOL
>>
>
> FWIW, Your response, John, was time-stamped
>
> "Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2010 11:22:08 -0800"
>
> And my newsreader reports it as "02:22P".

This one was sent at 2:22 pm from a NIST machine.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Right Wing is 'Trawling for Assassins'!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e98e93873db23cae?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 2:25 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Shall not be infringed" <hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:05839072-a19c-4e9d-a574-14246af78401@h27g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 18, 7:55 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "Shall not be infringed" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:e889b268-3b1d-4d83-b000-003e5b4530b9@r18g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 18, 6:34 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> > "Shall not be infringed" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> > messagenews:23dcd8c4-2e79-4645-83aa-0bfe0986d4fd@u34g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...
> > On Apr 18, 1:32 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
> > > "f. barnes" <fre...@centurytel.net> wrote in message
>
> > >news:02dda195-5321-4e35-8b66-6c867672405d@u21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > <snip>
>
> > > >Demonizing conservatives could lead to violence. Somebody could have
> > > >the thought, "If we have the name, why not have the game?" Liberals
> > > >need to be careful in what they say, tone down the vileness of their
> > > >smear tactics.
>
> > > If somebody says nasty things about you, you're going to shoot them,
> > > right?
> > >Ed, I missed that. Can you show me where barnes said that?
>
> > I'm just asking the question.
> >You're pussy-footing around like an attorney.
>
> Not at all. You're not particularly original, and frequently small-minded
> and rude. How's that?

>Should I be offended?

Naw. I just want to make sure you know I'm not pussyfooting. 'Just being
honest. d8-)

> > > I mean, why else would they have to be "careful"? Or what kind of
> > > "violence"
> > > did you have in mind?

> > >Oh, I see. You were just putting words in barnes mouth.
>
> > Barnes is pussfooting like a lawyer, alluding to "violence" and "the
> > game,"

> >The original poster cited the media's claim that the right is trawling
> >for assassins.
>
> I didn't read the OP's post. I just saw Fred's.

>So you came in in the middle, and you're uninformed.

It doesn't matter what else was said. Fred's words speak for themselves.

> >What more do you need? Should be good for a conviction, right?
>
> Veiling threats is a sign of bad character. Period.
>
> > and couching a threat in "being careful or..." Or what? Violence,
> > apparently. But I'm only asking the question.

> >Of course you are.
>
> I'll await his answer.

>Why would he answer a bully?

What bully? Who's threatening Fred?

> > I'm just helping him out. He needs a little spine to say openly what
> > he's
> > couching in barely deniable terms. He's like Gunner and his Sons of
> > Timothy
> > McVeigh. We'll see if he has the honesty and courage to answer directly
> > and
> > forthrightly.

> >Why? The media has already told you all you need to know. See the
> >original posting.
>
> I'm not interested. The thing that caught my eye was the veiled threats.

>You should meet Steve Robberson.

> > > Another threat from the right, eh? That's why you're considered by
> > > decent
> > > people to be such sleazes, like schoolyard bullies who never grew up.

> >You've dicked-up the attributions
>
> Not at all.

>You must not see your postings the way I see them.

'Can't help you there, Hammy. My words speak for themselves, too -- like
Fred's.

> The right is made up mostly of sleazy cowards and bullies.
> That's why we hear threats of "violence" if liberals aren't "careful" in
> what they say. That's a bully who's threatening violence over words.
> That's
> a dirtbag. We see several of their defenders here.

>So people shouldn't watch what they say, and there never are
>consequences to actions, even if they are just words?

It goes like this: Threatening people with violence over words, even if the
threats are veiled, is a sleazy, bullying thing to do. It's low-class; a
white-trash; bumpkinish way to react.

Fred is frustrated with the words. That's no excuse for making threats of
violence. Even if he would say that *he* wouldn't get violent, the best that
can be said for his remarks is that he's acknowledging that "conservatives,"
which is the word I think he used, are likely to be white-trash bumpkins who
would be likely to react with violence.

When you look at the extremes -- the self-styled "militias" and other goons
of the right-wing -- it's likely that he's right. They do tend to be
self-selected from the dregs of society. But the words, and the veiled
threat, were his.

There's no defense for that kind of threat, despite your attempts to turn
black into white. It won't fly, and defending such remarks is itself a
reprehensible thing.

Take offense if you want, or not.

--
Ed Huntress

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 3:01 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Shall not be infringed" <hot-ham-and-cheese@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36dc284f-5f75-4657-a85e-d4edf141fa8d@g1g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 20, 12:45 am, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "Shall not be infringed" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> messagenews:0728fc5d-302d-44e2-aaa1-4fd52ae62de5@r11g2000vbc.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 19, 4:50 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Buerste" <buer...@buerste.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:hqif7a$823$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>
> > > "Shall not be infringed" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> > > message
> > >news:3c2c7e43-70a5-47e4-8e26-8f3299ab6416@z7g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> > > On Apr 18, 7:55 pm, "Buerste" <buer...@buerste.com> wrote:
> > >> "Shall not be infringed" <hot-ham-and-che...@hotmail.com> wrote in
> > >> messagenews:37a2c008-7b12-4fd0-b8e1-ff352ace2cde@r27g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
> > >> <snip>
> > >> You have a point, but I'd rather just vote them out. Put
> > >> Constitutionalists in those slots. People who give a shit about
> > >> America.
>
> > >> I'd settle for people that have READ the Constitution, or at least
> > >> the
> > >> bills
> > >> they pass.
>
> > > Well, that would make sense, too. OK, let's set the bar real low and
> > > see what happens.
>
> > > If it was law that Congress had to READ bills, they would repeal that
> > > law...after not reading it. Pelosi would tell them they had to pass it
> > > to
> > > find out what was in it...again...still.
>
> > And if you actually read them, who knows what you'd say next?
>
> > Face it, Tawwwwwm: You're just so much hot air in a bag.
> >Wrong side of the bed again?
>
> An overload of dishonest and ignorant remarks by people who should know
> better. It's time to either strike back or leave.

>It's just a matter of perspective, Ed.

You can stretch that point to absurdity, and you still wind up with a bunch
of phonies on one side, like Tawwwwm, Gunner, et al., and people who
actually have done the work to understand what they're talking about.

Even better, to know when they don't know, and who don't make claims they
can't back up.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Electric Motor Phase Correction Question
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/09ececa261b3605b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 2:41 pm
From: "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> fired this volley in
news:cg2ss55prnoqk0aecc9vuu368tj83k2rr5@4ax.com:

> Ok...so how to I check?
>
> Gunner
>
>

Deliberately disconnect the start winding from the centrifugal switch.

Wind a cord around the shaft, and "pull-start" it (very, very damned soon
after you apply power).

If it runs without kicking the over-temp, it's the start switch that is
failing to open, and that should be _really_ easy to fix, since it's
purely mechanical.

The other alternative is just to open it up and fiddle with the switch.
It could be corroded and jammed, or just welded shut from a bad high-
current "make" at some time.

LLoyd

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Another gun, another nut...did they kill any of your family today?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0842f8601a24df8c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 2:41 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

I can't comment on the "last time", but it happens about two
million times a year, in the USA.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Siobhan Medeiros" <sbm2010@telus.net> wrote in message
news:01d29ae1-ddad-485d-83e9-18299674e1ae@v27g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 20, 8:29 am, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Would it change anything if a member of your family was
> saved by a good citizen carrying a privately owned gun?
>

When did the last time that happened?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT? 2 men severely burned when spark ignites oil tank
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/b860f1b7b8028b17?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 2:43 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Why is gasoline in a waste oil tank?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"William Wixon" <wwixon@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:mw_yn.60503$vC3.36187@newsfe04.iad...
local story.
huh, the first time i read this story i thought it said they
were cutting an
oil tank.

http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100413/NEWS/100419913

2 men severely burned when spark ignites oil tank
By Paul Brooks
also by Stephen Sacco

Published: 2:00 AM - 04/13/10
MALDEN-ON-HUDSON - A 275-gallon waste oil tank at Steyer's
Hudson Valley
Automotive exploded Monday, severely burning two mechanics.
Scott Kammerzell, 39, of Palenville, was flown to
Westchester Medical Center
in critical condition and Brian Wright, 44, of Saugerties,
was flown to
Albany Medical Center in serious condition, state police
said.
A third mechanic, Steven Steyer, 21, of Saugerties, suffered
a cut to his
ear and minor burns and was taken to Kingston Hospital for
treatment.
Firefighters were on the scene within four minutes. The
building at 468
Malden Turnpike sustained only minor damage. "They were
lucky the whole
building was not leveled," said Randy Ricks, chief of the
Centerville-Cedar
Grove Fire Department.
Troopers said the 1:28 p.m. explosion was caused by a spark
from metal
cutting that ignited gas in the tank.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Do TMT's mommies have two Glocks too?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6ace763e99837177?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 2:51 pm
From: Hawke

> You claimed to be liberal before, I guess I can't fault you from trying
> to distance yourself from them now that people are calling you on how
> foolish you sound. It usually takes longer than that for most libs to
> change stripes, congratulations on your awakening out of your coma.

I've said it many times I don't fit the label of liberal. I have views
that are what liberals advocate but I have some that conservatives
believe too. I've been an independent for many years. So the truth is
I've been trying to distance myself from both parties, and I have. But
just because I am anti gun control, to a point, and am anti illegal
immigration doesn't mean I believe in conservatism. I don't. Your
problem is that you don't get it that everyone doesn't fit neatly into
lib or conservative boxes. I have some views from both and belong to
neither. In contrast, you're just a garden variety right winger, which
means we know were you stand without you having to tell us.

Hawke

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 2:57 pm
From: Hawke

On 4/18/2010 6:00 PM, Klaus Shadenfreude wrote:
> [Default] On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 14:48:41 -0700, Hawke
> <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in talk.politics.guns:
>
>> On 4/18/2010 6:50 AM, Klaus Shadenfreude wrote:
>>> [Default] On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 06:46:51 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>>> <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns:
>>>
>>>> Hey conservatives...this guy actually shoots and I suspect is pretty
>>>> damn good at it.
>>>
>>> Nobody really cares much what you "suspect."
>>
>>
>> Just like nobody cares what you "think".
>
> Of course you don't. Leftists don't like to hear other opinions. They
> make camps for those kinds of people.

Not quite. Most of us are not "leftists" and it's true that we don't
bother with what people with closed minds like yours have to say most of
the time. We're glad to hear the opinions of people who have something
interesting to say. We have no time for people who just repeat the words
of radio talk show hosts. And you will find that many times we hear the
exact words of the likes of Hannity and Limbaugh repeated by right
wingers here all the time. Those we do ignore. Why not? If we want to
hear from bigoted, racist, ignorant, clowns, we can just tune in to them
on the radio.

Hawke

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Crafts Organizer
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/be3df9e53d0ef913?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 20 2010 3:06 pm
From: ssbe83754

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==============================================================================

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Tuesday, April 20, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 26 new messages in 15 topics - digest

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