twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 13 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Closing aluminium tube ends
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5d4e22498f315783?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:49 am
From: Robin

On 28 Mar, 12:42, Ken Moffett <KLMoff...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Robin <creffi...@gmail.com> wrote innews:73c42db5-093b-4dee-a11d-738473cf9e77@r1g2000yqj.googlegro
> ups.com:
>
>
>
> > I'm working on a little project (a spotlight) that is
> > basically a bit of aluminium tubing, 50mm ID, 5mm wall
> > thickness. I was wondering the best way to close the end of
> > the tube that doesn't have the light shining out. I'm
> > hoping to make it water resistant
>
> > a) Turn a round plate of 60mm diameter, drill and tap the
> > tube and screw the plate on - problem being the wall
> > thickness isn't that great so I'd be limited to about M3
>
> > b) Cut an internal thread in the tube and a threaded plug
> > to fit (probably a 1.5mm ISO thread) - would require some
> > form of sealant/ threadlocker
>
> > c) Cut a chamfered plug and bond it to the tube - not sure
> > what adhesive to use
>
> > Any other ideas? I'll be using my Myford Super 7 and
> > indexable tools
>
> You didn't say what the enviornment is, but I frequently use
> plastic plugs for steel and aluminum, round and square.
>
> Like these:http://www.mcmaster.com/#tubing-plugs/=6ev3vm
>
> Ken

The tube is basically a spotlight body, one which I'm hoping will be
waterproof. Since the bulbs (MR16) are halogen, they tend to generate
a fair amount of heat so I wouldn't be comfortable with a plastic
plug. Have always been tempted by the freezing/heating methods - I
suppose once joined, the fact the whole assembly is heating up should
stop it all falling apart although I'd be tempted to screw in place as
well.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Women.....
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/b933f45a1ed72efa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 6:01 am
From: Hang Dog

Gunner Asch wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzrUztyd1Y&feature=player_embedded
>
>

More right wing theft. Doubt they have permission to use any of the
photos, and definitely none of the music either. One would have thougt
that after McCain got caught stealing and having to pay big time, they'd
have learned their lesson. Chop their thieving fucking hands off its the
only thing they'll understand.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 6:41 am
From: "RogerN"

"Hang Dog" <righteous@wobble.nospam.net> wrote in message
news:81922uFcpbU1@mid.individual.net...
> Gunner Asch wrote:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzrUztyd1Y&feature=player_embedded
>>
>>
>
> More right wing theft. Doubt they have permission to use any of the
> photos, and definitely none of the music either. One would have thougt
> that after McCain got caught stealing and having to pay big time, they'd
> have learned their lesson. Chop their thieving fucking hands off its the
> only thing they'll understand.

What about the one showing better looking Democrat women and less outer
beauty, but more inner beauty, Republican women? Do you also thing the
Democrats that made it should have their hands cut off, or are you the
typical leftard hypocrite?

How about Obama, 7 lies in less than 2 minutes, if you are not a hypocrite
you should be saying he should have his tongue cut off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0

I'll bet you are against individuals making a video without permission to
use the photo's and songs, but it's probably OK with you that you're
President is an outright liar.

RogerN

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 7:59 am
From: Wes

Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote:

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzrUztyd1Y&feature=player_embedded
>
>
>laugh laugh laugh
>
>Gunner

I don't think Kimberly Guilfoyle belongs on the republican section of the video. She was
maried to Gavin Newsom.

Now Slaughter, someone I don't agree with politically, looks pretty damn good for a woman
that is 80 years old.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3b/Rep_Louise_Slaughter.jpg/160px-Rep_Louise_Slaughter.jpg

I didn't see Patty Anne Brown or or Catherine Herridge.
http://www.pattiannbrowne.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/PattiAnnBrowneplum164repro.jpg

Wes

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 8:19 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

RogerN wrote:
> "Hang Dog" <righteous@wobble.nospam.net> wrote in message
> news:81922uFcpbU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Gunner Asch wrote:
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzrUztyd1Y&feature=player_embedded
>>>
>>>
>>
>> More right wing theft. Doubt they have permission to use any of the
>> photos, and definitely none of the music either. One would have
>> thougt that after McCain got caught stealing and having to pay big
>> time, they'd have learned their lesson. Chop their thieving fucking
>> hands off its the only thing they'll understand.
>
> What about the one showing better looking Democrat women and less
> outer beauty, but more inner beauty, Republican women? Do you also
> thing the Democrats that made it should have their hands cut off, or
> are you the typical leftard hypocrite?
>
> How about Obama, 7 lies in less than 2 minutes, if you are not a
> hypocrite you should be saying he should have his tongue cut off.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0
>
> I'll bet you are against individuals making a video without
> permission to use the photo's and songs, but it's probably OK with
> you that you're President is an outright liar.

Getting all wound up for church, I see.
Don't forget to kick your dog around a bit and slap the shit out of your
wife to show her the place she occupies in your universe Roger.

--
John R. Carroll

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 7:56 am
From: "RogerN"

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:Wp6dnSm3Xa_G-DLWnZ2dnUVZ_t6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> RogerN wrote:
>> "Hang Dog" <righteous@wobble.nospam.net> wrote in message
>> news:81922uFcpbU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Gunner Asch wrote:
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzrUztyd1Y&feature=player_embedded
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> More right wing theft. Doubt they have permission to use any of the
>>> photos, and definitely none of the music either. One would have
>>> thougt that after McCain got caught stealing and having to pay big
>>> time, they'd have learned their lesson. Chop their thieving fucking
>>> hands off its the only thing they'll understand.
>>
>> What about the one showing better looking Democrat women and less
>> outer beauty, but more inner beauty, Republican women? Do you also
>> thing the Democrats that made it should have their hands cut off, or
>> are you the typical leftard hypocrite?
>>
>> How about Obama, 7 lies in less than 2 minutes, if you are not a
>> hypocrite you should be saying he should have his tongue cut off.
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UErR7i2onW0
>>
>> I'll bet you are against individuals making a video without
>> permission to use the photo's and songs, but it's probably OK with
>> you that you're President is an outright liar.
>
> Getting all wound up for church, I see.
> Don't forget to kick your dog around a bit and slap the shit out of your
> wife to show her the place she occupies in your universe Roger.
>
> JC
>
> --
> John R. Carroll

Actually, I don't think I've been to church 5 times in the last 10+ years.
I'm just simply pointing out facts and am happy that Obama is showing all
the fools that voted for him how stupid they were to believe his lies.

By chance did you watch the movie Evan Almighty? There was a perfect
example in a part of it that showed how liberals are. Two of every kind of
animal came around to board Evans ARC and the news reporter said something
like "With all these Species, what's will they do about the Feces". They
missed the big picture, why the animals were coming, they missed the sign
and all they could see was the animal poop. Hang Dogs response reminded me
of this, he ignores Obama's outright lies but thinks someone making a video,
obviously picking nice pictures of one party and bad pictures of another
party, should have their hands cut off. If what the maker of the video was
wrong why not just use the legal process? Is there a legal process for a
politician that lies? It would be the only bill with zero votes from either
party of the politicians :-)

Obama not only told a little lie, he is doing the exact opposite of what he
said he would do, he is doing what he said is wrong.

RogerN

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DIY surge protection...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fa560b93f2504a9b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 6:18 am
From: trader4@optonline.net

On Mar 27, 7:58 pm, westom <west...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 26, 6:35 pm, trade...@optonline.net wrote:
>
> > Most of those same responsible companies also sell plug-in surge
> > protectors too. Some recommend using them in conjunction with their
> > whole house surge protectors.
>
> And so would I. If you are so misinformed as to spend up to $150
> for an APC or Monster protector, well, GE sells the equivalent product
> for $15.

Square the above statement with calling those manufacturers
"responsible". How can they be responsible if they are selling
dangerous and ineffective products?

>
> Meanwhile the IEEE puts numbers to this stuff. A properly earthed
> 'whole house' protector is 99.5 to 99.9% protection. That 'whole
> house' protector required to even protect those ineffective plug-in
> protectors. Plug-in protectors that will magically absorb hundreds of
> thousands of joules can create these scary pictures (and the fire
> marshal who describes why the threat exists:
> http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
> http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
> http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html
> http://tinyurl.com/3x73ol
> http://www3.cw56.com/news/articles/local/BO63312/
> http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/news/lesson-learned/surgeprotectorfire.htm
> http://www.pennsburgfireco.com/fullstory.php?58339
>
> To avoid that failure, the informed consumer earths one 'whole
> house' protector for about $1 per protected appliance. Then those $40
> and $150 per appliance protectors for the additional 0.2% protection
> might do something useful.

WoW ! Stop the presses. This is something new. Previously W had
always argued that plug-in surge protectors were totally useless or
actually dangerous because protection without a short direct
connection to earth ground was impossible. Now for the first time,
it seems protection is not impossible, but instead has an
effectiveness of .2%. At least that's a step in the right direction.

Also, obvioulsy you are grossly misinformed about plug-in surge
protectors because good ones can be had for a lot less than $40 to
$150 each, let alone per appliance. I have a $25 one sitting
behind my TV that has 6 pieces of electronics plugged into it. That
works out to $4 an appliance, not $40.

Now lets deal with the frightnening pictures. My W you have been
busy searching haven't you? Here's the most serious problem. How
many photos could one find of TVs, toasters, stereos or other common
appliances that also had failures that caused fires? How many plug-
in surge protectors are there that are in use? Probably in the
hundreds of millions. So, to find 6 that caught fire isn't something
extraordinary. Note that at least some of those are identified as
older ones that do not have thermal protection that all new ones
must. The rest we don't know how old they were or if they had thermal
protection, which they probably did not.

And these units are being indicted for having MOVs. Guess what else
has MOVs that are even smaller? Your TV, radio, stereo, dishwasher,
oven, etc. So, again, how is it that according to W if you put an
MOV inside a plug-in surge protector it's a fire hazard. But put a
smaller one inside a plastic radio and it becomes effective
protection?

Also notice that NONE of the links said that plug-in surge protectors
are ineffective, dangerous and should be avoided. Some of them even
talked about how to use them.

>
> But then the IEEE says what a properly earthed 'whole house'
> protector does:

Yes and they also show plug-in surge protectors used too and recommend
them. You can't have it both ways.

>
> > Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct strokes
> > from one stroke per 30 years ... to one stroke per 6000 years ...
>
> Why spend $60 per appliance for a plug-in protector once the
> effective solution is installed? The 'whole house' protector is
> required to even protect plug-in protectors. But that would not reap
> obscene profits for the less responsible companies that only sell the
> ineffective protector. So myths are promoted.

Yes, like W's myth that these companies are "less responsible", while
we've shown him over and over again that the major electric gear
companies he calls "responsible" also sell them.

>Discussion of earth
> ground avoided. Insult posted by the usual nay sayers.

Yes, avoided indeed, because W can't explain the contradictions:

How is it that MOVs inside an appliance provide surge protection that
W says works, yet MOVs located in a plug-in are not effective?

How is it that MOVs inside a whole house surge protector are peachy
keen? They too are subject to the same failure modes after a surge
that is too large or after repeated smaller surges. Many of them are
also housed in plastic.

If a direct connection to earth ground is the only way to achieve
protection, how are electronics in airplanes protected?

>
> The informed homeowner installed a 'whole house' protector for about
> $1 per protected appliance. Then may spend tens of times more money
> for a plug-in protector to add the maybe 0.2% additional protection so
> that the surge maybe once every 6000 years might be further
> constrained.

Please provide a reference for those numbers, pulled out of thin
air. While you're at it, please provide a reference that agrees with
you that plug-in protectors are totally ineffective. Or is it now
that they are not totally ineffective, just .2% effective?

Also, perhaps you forgot, but I haven't. Still waiting for your link
to HD for their 50KA rated surge protector for less than $50.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 9:12 am
From: bud--

westom wrote:
> On Mar 26, 6:35 pm, trade...@optonline.net wrote:
>> Most of those same responsible companies also sell plug-in surge
>> protectors too. Some recommend using them in conjunction with their
>> whole house surge protectors.
>
> Meanwhile the IEEE puts numbers to this stuff. A properly earthed
> 'whole house' protector is 99.5 to 99.9% protection.

Not provided - quote or context.

As can be seen from other quotes from w, he completely twists what
sources says.

Service panel suppressors are a good idea.
But repeating from the NIST guide:
"Q - Will a surge protector installed at the service entrance be
sufficient for the whole house?
A - There are two answers to than question: Yes for one-link appliances
[electronic equipment], No for two-link appliances [equipment connected
to power AND phone or cable or....]. Since most homes today have some
kind of two-link appliances, the prudent answer to the question would be
NO - but that does not mean that a surge protector installed at the
service entrance is useless."

Service panel suppressors do not prevent high voltages from developing
between power and signal wires.

> That 'whole
> house' protector required to even protect those ineffective plug-in
> protectors.

More complete idiocy. Cite a source. (Hallucinations don't count.)

> Plug-in protectors that will magically absorb hundreds of
> thousands of joules

Continued idiocy.

> can create these scary pictures (and the fire
> marshal who describes why the threat exists:
> http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554

w is unable to understand his own hanford link. It is about "some
older model" power strips and says overheating was fixed with a revision
to UL1449 that required thermal disconnects. That was 1998. There is no
reason to believe, from any of these links, that there is a problem with
suppressors produced under the UL standard that has been in effect since
1998. None of these links even say a damaged suppressor had a UL label.

But with no valid technical arguments all w_ has is pathetic scare tactics.

> The informed homeowner installed a 'whole house' protector for about
> $1 per protected appliance.

If you count light bulbs as appliances.

> Plug-in protectors without a 'whole house' protector do
> not even claim to provide the necessary protection.

Continued idiocy.

But SquareD, for their best service panel suppressor, says "electronic
equipment may need additional protection by installing plug-in
[suppressors] at the point of use".

> A $3 power strip with some ten cent
> protector parts

I recently bought a major brand plug-in suppressor with ratings of 590J
and 30,000A per MOV, 1770J and 90,000A total. Provide a source for a
30,000A/590J MOV for ten cents.

You forgot "a protector is only as effective as its earth ground." Are
you feeling OK?

Still no link to another lunatic that agrees that plug-in suppressors
are NOT effective.

Still never answered - simple questions:
Why aren't airplanes crashing daily when they get hit by lightning (or
do they drag an earthing chain)?
- Why do the only 2 examples of protection in the IEEE guide use plug-in
suppressors?
- Why does the NIST guide says plug-in suppressors are "the easiest
solution"?
- Why does the NIST guide say "One effective solution is to have the
consumer install" a multiport plug-in suppressor?
- How would a service panel suppressor provide any protection in the
IEEE example, pdf page 42?
- Why does the IEEE guide say for distant service points "the only
effective way of protecting the equipment is to use a multiport
[plug-in] protector"?
- Why do your favorite manufacturers make plug-in suppressors?
- Why does favorite manufacturer SquareD say (for their service panel
suppressor) "electronic equipment may need additional protection by
installing plug-in [suppressors] at the point of use"?
Why can't you answer simple questions w???

For real science read the IEEE and NIST guides. Both say plug-in
suppressors are effective.

--
bud--

==============================================================================
TOPIC: If George Bush........
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/ee503716cb3ad0d5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 6:22 am
From: "Buerste"

Lets play a game. It called: LIE, STUPIDITY OR IGNORANCE

"Because Americans are socialists."
(L, S or I)?
"First, the uneducated, jobless, skill-less do not vote very often."
(L, S or I)?
"Conservatives ran the country for 8 out of the last 10 years."
(L, S or I)?
"Those people on the bottom used to have something. Now it's all owned by
the few."
(L, S or I)?
"The problem is that the wealth is maldistributed."
(L, S or I)?
"I'm even hearing that in the next jobs report they are saying that instead
of jobs lost
there are going to be jobs created for the first time in over 2 years."
(L, S or I)?

Any of the answers are correct for you.

So, redistributing somebody else's money to those you think deserving is
your answer to all the worlds problems. I bet you're on the receiving end,
aren't you Paul?

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 8:14 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

Buerste wrote:
> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
> news:qMOdneAk6YeP1jPWnZ2dnUVZ_jednZ2d@giganews.com...
>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>>> news:PPadnQio4fEJiDPWnZ2dnUVZ_tydnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>> Ed Huntress wrote:
>>>>> "John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
>>>>> news:B5mdna0Ao5ynjzPWnZ2dnUVZ_qOdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>>>>> Buerste wrote:
>>>>>>> "Hawke" <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:hoj3hn$6t8$1@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>> Is there an echo in here? d8-)
>>>>
>>>> I hope so <G>
>>>> I'm also wondering why, if Tom is doing such a splendid job
>>>> creating jobs, Ohio is going to be without two Congressional
>>>> Districts as the result of the
>>>> current census.
>>>
>>> I think he's giving a lot of them the brush-off.
>>
>> Well....
>> They lost two in 1990, two more in 2000 and now another two in 2010.
>> At 630,000 a pop, that's a lot of brushing.
>> LOL
>> It's also a huge dent in the tax base.
>>
>>>
>>>> I wonder if Tang Face is going to be back to running the
>>>> family bar?
>>>
>>> Huh. Tang. Yeah, that's good. The color on my TV is off a little
>>> bit, I guess. His face still looks like Pontiac Firegold from here.
>>
>> It's a spray on so he can vary the color to suit his mood if he
>> likes. He was much less radiant when he took to the well of the
>> House before the reconcilliation vote than he'd been on Sunday. Did
>> you notice that? It would
>> be funny as hell if the service he uses turned him a dark shade of
>> ebony by
>> mistake one day <G> That really would be "Magic".
>> LOL
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John R. Carroll
>>
>>
>
> I'm just a tiny flyspeck and have absolutely no impact on anything.

So all of that nonsense about 131 years in business was just posturing?
OK
What you and yours did yesterday doesn't matter much anyway. It's what you
do today that counts.
You know that.

> I see first hand the worst part of one of the hardest hit cities in
> the US.

Head on over to Cincinnati if you want to see worse.
You guys in Cleveland can't even fail properly.
You are a close second though.

>I see the symptoms of the huge underlying problems...jobs
> and education!

Those are results Tom, not symptoms.

>We used to have a model school system, now it's been
> politicized when they started election the BOE rather than appointing
> them. The system quickly corrupted and disintegrated.

Bah!
The problem is shitty parents. All of the crap you list is what you get from
idiots with kids.

>There used to
> be huge numbers of good manufacturing jobs that attracted people from
> all over the country.

It wasn't only the jobs, it was Ohio, once a GREAT place to live, work and
raise a family.
Turning it into a cesspool in the 50's and 60's was a bad idea. Anyone with
a brain got out and it became impossible for manufacturers to attract good
talent. That's what happens when you shit where you eat and in your own hat
simultaneously.
Once the best parents had taken themselves and their families to places
where the rivers and streams didn't leap into toxin producing flame
spontaneously, you ended up with the crowd that couldn't get out and
manufacturer's hit the road.

>Now those jobs are gone and the decedents of
> the factory workers have nothing comparable.

Sure they do, just in a different neighborhood far away.

> And, there seems to be
> a disincentive for kids to do well in school and the schools have
> lost their incentive to impress these kids.

No parenting skills. You can cast blame anywhere, and you do, but the
simple fact is that parents are the first and strongest role models for
their offspring. Shitty parents = low quality offspring.

>I have a real hard time
> getting new employees that can do simple math or read a tape measure.
> We hold classes, on the clock, just to teach some necessary skills.
> We also cover the families' medical and pay for children's and
> grandchildren's school books through college if they hold a "B"
> average. BUT, that's a fart in a windstorm. My costs get repaid
> many-fold as my employees on the whole go above and beyond.

Yeah, what you are is a surrogate parent. I'd have thought that would be
obvious to you.
It isn't the kids or the schools that are defective or you wouldn't have any
luck with these people either.
Ship the whole lot of them off for military service and they'd come back
useful men and women with a little self respect.
They would be teaching you something then and that would be that you'r
current blathering is just a bunch of uninformed and emotional BS.

--
John R. Carroll

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Barbecue Grill burner replacements
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fb9fa64bdb94b52c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 6:23 am
From: trader4@optonline.net

On Mar 27, 10:55 pm, Ignoramus11443 <ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11443.invalid> wrote:
> On 2010-03-28, Ed Pawlowski <e...@snetnospam.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "RAM?" <S31924.nos...@netscape.net> wrote
> >>> I was hoping to find stainless burners so that the new ones would not
> >>> rust. Realistically speaking, is that "cast iron" any more rust
> >>> resistant than the original material, or are they also going to rot?
>
> >>> i
>
> >> The burners and grills are considered "consumables" and are expected to be
> >> replaced as needed.
>
> > The stainless steel burners on my Vermont Castings are as good as new after
> > 12 years. So are the porcelain coated cast iron grates. You need to buy a
> > better grill if you think they are consumables.
>
> Why wouldn't anyone want to sell stainless burners for my grill? These
> burners seem to fit a lot of grills, and therefore there is enough
> market to make stainless burners. I would pay the premium.
>
> i- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Because you got 8 years out of much cheaper iron ones in an
inexpensive grill from Sams club. That 8 years probably exceeds the
life expectation of the whole unit for a low to mid-range priced
grill.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 7:17 am
From: Ecnerwal

In article <oIHrn.145897$rq1.62459@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com>,
Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:

> Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
> >I'm trying to figure out why anybody would go to all this trouble for a
> >gas grill... The grill in my new outdoor kitchen is charcoal, as God
> >intended.
>
> Nothing tastes as good as using briquettes. I'm curious what would happen if
> I used some
> of the home made charcoal I made a while back with to cook a steak. Would
> the home made
> stuff burn cooler or hotter?
>
> Wes

Real charcoal is better than briquettes - no coal dust, so no coal
smoke. I don't know that it's any hotter, but it certainly starts nicer.
Or you can cheat the charcoal production process and just build a wood
fire and let it burn down.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 8:11 am
From: "Colbyt"

"Ignoramus11443" <ignoramus11443@NOSPAM.11443.invalid> wrote in message
news:ypidnS2DuomIPDPWnZ2dnUVZ_umdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>I have a stainless steel grill that we bought from Sam's Club.
>
> http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/tmp-6648.jpg
>
> After 8 years, the iron burners on it rotted considerably. As I look
> for replacements, I see "cast iron burners" available at many
> websites. Example is here:
>
>
> http://www.gasngrills.com/members-mark-cast-iron-burner-29251.html
>
> I was hoping to find stainless burners so that the new ones would not
> rust. Realistically speaking, is that "cast iron" any more rust
> resistant than the original material, or are they also going to rot?
>
> i

8 years is a long life. You must not cook very often.

The SS burners are about as good as it gets. The cast iron will crack over
time. The chrome will go faster. On the average I get about 3 years from a
SS burner which is used about 48 weeks per year in all kinds of weather. The
cast iron lasted about the same amount of time. I suspect the heat cool
cycles in colder weather affected that sine cast burners on stove last for
many years.

I had a hard time accepting that they meant to be a consumable product.

I suggest a Google search using both the model name and number and with just
one of each. That looks like a proprietary design so you may not have a lot
of choices.

--
Colbyt
Please come visit http://www.househomerepair.com

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 8:27 am
From: John B. Slocomb

On Sun, 28 Mar 2010 08:12:45 -0500, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:

>Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote:
>
>>I'm trying to figure out why anybody would go to all this trouble for a
>>gas grill... The grill in my new outdoor kitchen is charcoal, as God
>>intended.
>
>Nothing tastes as good as using briquettes. I'm curious what would happen if I used some
>of the home made charcoal I made a while back with to cook a steak. Would the home made
>stuff burn cooler or hotter?
>
>Wes

If you made a good quality charcoal it will burn with about the same
temperature.
I'm not sure how "modern" charcoal is made but I suspect by heating in
some sort of oven in a neutral atmosphere, which is essentially what
you did except you probably buried the wood and poked a little hole in
the dirt to let the gasses out.. You might have ended up with a
slightly lower carbon content but it probably won't be enough
different for you to notice it.

John B. Slocomb

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Stiffness of round bar
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7bacdb5bb29dacb7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 7:29 am
From: Wes

"Existential Angst" <UNfitcat@UNoptonline.net> wrote:

>It seems that plate is much harder/stiffer than bar. Even in my limited
>experience, if you give me two different pieces of say 6x6" x 1/4 cut from
>plate and bar, I can immediately tell the diff -- the plate almost has a
>ring to it.
>
>And seems WAY stiffer.
>
>Is this my imagination, or do you see the same thing? If this is in fact
>true, why such a diff in aluminums, and not amongst steels?
>
>Also, the 1" bars I use in weight lifting *seem* much stiffer than the 1"
>HR stuff. More imagination?

Imagination. Years ago, I as making a machine to take an SRIM dispensing head into a
press. The head was pretty darn heavy and the beam was fairly long.

My little brain knew that droop was going to be an issue. Glory be, machinist handbook
has the formulas to calculate that for regular sections.

Now not trusting my interpretation of the material presented, I performed the calculations
for various items in our stock rack and damn, when I clamped the stock to a heavy support
to check, the calculations proved out.

I ended up with a rectangular tube that was made out of two pieces of aluminum L section
angle together by my brother in law to get what I wanted based on the calculations.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

==============================================================================
TOPIC: An open letter to conservatives
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/9be56917d888f492?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 7:06 am
From: Garlicdude

sittingduck wrote:
> An open letter to conservatives
> March 22, 2010, 3:16PM
> http://tinyurl.com/yc55hxj
> VERY WELL REFERENCED, read at TPM for more info.
>
> Dear Conservative Americans,
>
> The years have not been kind to you. I grew up in a profoundly Republican
> home,
> so I can remember when you wore a very different face than the one we see
> now.
> You've lost me and you've lost most of America. Because I believe having
> responsible choices is important to democracy, I'd like to give you some
> advice
> and an invitation.
>
> First, the invitation: Come back to us.

"Dear Russell King:

I read your open letter over at Talking Point Memo and felt it worthy of a
response...

Actually that's not true, I read this much of your letter:

Dear Conservative Americans,

The years have not been kind to you. I grew up in a profoundly Republican
home, so I can remember when you wore a very different face than the one we see
now. You've lost me and you've lost most of America. Because I believe having
responsible choices is important to democracy, I'd like to give you some advice
and an invitation.

First, the invitation: Come back to us.

Now the advice. You're going to have to come up with a platform that isn't
built on a foundation of cowardice: fear of people with colors, religions,
cultures and sex lives that differ from your own; fear of reform in banking,
health care, energy; fantasy fears of America being transformed into an Islamic
nation, into social/commun/fasc-ism, into a disarmed populace put in internment
camps; and more. But you have work to do even before you take on that task.

And then I stopped. That's because the last thing I need in my life right now is
some self-satisfied, sanctimonious fuck of a liberal telling what I need to be
doing right now. And based on the above, that's exactly what you are: A
self-satisfied, sanctimonious liberal fuck" ........................

http://dennisthepeasant.typepad.com/dennis_the_peasant/2010/03/dear-russell-king.html

Regards,
Steve Saling
aka The Garlic Dude �
Gilroy, CA
The Garlic Capital of The World

http://tinyurl.com/2avg58

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What material for grill grate
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/9468b445cbbb194d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 8:13 am
From: Wes

Ignoramus11443 <ignoramus11443@NOSPAM.11443.invalid> wrote:

>I thought to just buy some thicker steel, or stainless, rod and weld
>it together. The question is what is the recommended material.

In wood burning stoves, cast iron grates out last steel. I don't know if they still exist
but years ago, you would stop at a road side rest and find a cast iron grill for cooking
at many stops. The cooking grate in those was cast iron. They must have known something.

Wes

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 7:45 am
From: "Steve Lusardi"

The material of choice is Inconel, but 316 will work. Inconel is designed for high temperature use. 316 is designed for corrosion
resistance.
Steve

"Ignoramus11443" <ignoramus11443@NOSPAM.11443.invalid> wrote in message news:44ednRAglqX-FzPWnZ2dnUVZ_qqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
> We have a "stainless steel grill" from Sam's club. While the outside
> is stainless, the burners, as well as the lower grate, are not, and
> have almost completely rotted.
>
> I will hopefully replace the burners, if I can find stainless
> replacements. I would like to decide how to replace the lower grate. I
> doubt that I can find 1:1 replacement for it. The job of the lower
> grate is to hold ceramic plates, not meat. It was made of what looks
> like steel that rusted almost completely.
>
> I thought to just buy some thicker steel, or stainless, rod and weld
> it together. The question is what is the recommended material.
>
> i

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 8:07 am
From: Ignoramus8246

On 2010-03-28, Steve Lusardi <stevenospam@lusardi.de> wrote:

> The material of choice is Inconel, but 316 will work. Inconel is
> designed for high temperature use. 316 is designed for corrosion
> resistance. Steve

I do have some Inconel TIG rod, but it is too thin.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: pre-existing condition
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/417e52f65cbdfece?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 7:33 am
From: Cliff

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/HeartFailureNews/newborns-family-learns-pre-existing-conditions-apply-birth/story?id=10218514
[
....
Last week, Houston's parents found out that the term "pre-existing condition"
can apply the moment someone is born.
....
the Tracy family formally heard their son was denied health insurance.
....
]

Can you smell Palin's death panels?
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: So Much For 'Energy Star' Ratings
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5403aac4554cfb17?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 8:43 am
From: Wes

Erik <spam@this.com> wrote:

>Always had a feeling 'Energy Star' ratings were a mostly bogus hype...
>looks like I was right.
>
>http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/03/26/2322208
>
>Erik

Someone is going to get fired at GAO for embarassing government.

Wes

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Rage
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/dea9a489a8c4c9ce?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 7:53 am
From: Cliff

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/opinion/28rich.html
"The Rage Is Not About Health Care"
[
...
... births to Asian, black and Hispanic women accounted for 48 percent of all
births in America in the 12 months ending in July 2008. By 2012, the next
presidential election year, non-Hispanic white births will be in the minority.
The Tea Party movement is virtually all white. The Republicans haven't had a
single African-American in the Senate or the House since 2003 and have had only
three in total since 1935.
...
... G.O.P. by remaining silent as mass hysteria, some of it encompassing armed
militias, runs amok in their own precincts. We know the end of that story. And
they can't pretend that we're talking about "isolated incidents" or a "fringe"
utterly divorced from the G.O.P. A Quinnipiac poll last week found that 74
percent of Tea Party members identify themselves as Republicans or
Republican-leaning independents,
....
Yet no Republican or conservative leader of stature has taken on Palin, Perry,
Boehner or any of the others who have been stoking these fires for a good 17
months now. Last week McCain even endorsed Palin's "reload" rhetoric.

Are these politicians so frightened of offending anyone in the Tea Party-Glenn
Beck base that they would rather fall silent than call out its extremist
elements and their enablers?
....
]

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 8:19 am
From: Concerend Citizen

On Mar 28, 10:53 am, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
wrote:
> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/opinion/28rich.html
> "The Rage Is Not About Health Care"

The rage is about representatives not representing.

> [
> ...
> ... births to Asian, black and Hispanic women accounted for 48 percent of all
> births in America in the 12 months ending in July 2008. By 2012, the next
> presidential election year, non-Hispanic white births will be in the minority.
> The Tea Party movement is virtually all white. The Republicans haven't had a
> single African-American in the Senate or the House since 2003 and have had only
> three in total since 1935.
> ...
> ... G.O.P. by remaining silent as mass hysteria, some of it encompassing armed
> militias, runs amok in their own precincts. We know the end of that story.

There were arrests last night in Indiana, according to the news. And
you want to claim they were Tea Party?

And
> they can't pretend that we're talking about "isolated incidents" or a "fringe"
> utterly divorced from the G.O.P. A Quinnipiac poll last week found that 74
> percent of Tea Party members identify themselves as Republicans or
> Republican-leaning independents,
> ....
> Yet no Republican or conservative leader of stature has taken on Palin, Perry,
> Boehner or any of the others who have been stoking these fires for a good 17
> months now. Last week McCain even endorsed Palin's "reload" rhetoric.
>
> Are these politicians so frightened of offending anyone in the Tea Party-Glenn
> Beck base that they would rather fall silent than call out its extremist
> elements and their enablers?
> ....
> ]

Why do they have to be frightened? What are they supposed to be
frightend of?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anniversary of an amazingly enduring design
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/57c9c3facffdfb67?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 8:14 am
From: "Robert Swinney"

Richard sez:

"Neither did NASA when we went to the moon."

Just goes to show there's a lot of truth in the old saw, "Technology without mathematics would only
be two weeks behind"

Bob Swinney

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Communism In The Whitehouse
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/75e583a47deaf131?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 8:33 am
From: Nixonian

The commies are redistributing the wealth of the banks!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/03/26/AR2010032604938.html?hpid=topnews

==============================================================================

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Sunday, March 28, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

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