twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 15 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: fun with your tractor
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8b925e9e3238029e?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:06 pm
From: Winston

On 3/27/2010 7:18 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 22:54:24 -0700, the infamous Winston
> <Winston@bigbrother.net> scrawled the following:
>
>> On 3/26/2010 6:43 PM, rangerssuck wrote:
>>
>>> Aren't you even a little bit embarrassed to be able to identify the
>>> Spice Girls?
>>
>> Larry is *hopeless* naming the guys in the boy bands.
>> I swear, can't do a thing with him.
>
> Ayup. Hey, why haven't you plonked that wanker yet?

I propose we split the group into rec.crafts.metalworking
and rec.plonk.wanker.politics

--Winston

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:40 pm
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 27, 7:06 pm, Winston <Wins...@bigbrother.net> wrote:
> ...
>
> I propose we split the group into rec.crafts.metalworking
> and rec.plonk.wanker.politics
>
> --Winston

Do what I do, apply the z-plane transformation, z = x + iy, where i is
the square root of -1.
Metal is real, politics imaginary.

jsw

==============================================================================
TOPIC: 'Twisted' Mind
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/9be56917d888f492?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:11 pm
From: Too_Many_Tools

On Mar 27, 2:46 pm, wmbjkREM...@citlink.net wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 13:57:58 -0400, Cliff
>
>
>
>
>
> <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>
> >http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2010/03/weiner-on-pali...
> > "Weiner On Palin's 'Twisted' Mind"
> >[
> >Rep. Anthony Weiner responded with scorn to Sarah Palin's assertion that she
> >isn't responsible for encouraging the attacks on Democrats who voted in favor of
> >health care reform, even after her "RELOAD!" Tweet.
>
> >[
> >"What Sarah Palin doesn't seem to understand is that while it's pretty clear to
> >most people that the - the language about targeting someone and being in the
> >crosshairs was a metaphor to her, to a twisted mind, it really might be the sign
> >that they should go ahead and do something more violent," Weiner told CNN's Wolf
> >Blitzer on "The Situation Room" today.
>
> >"I'm not quite sure she understands the debate is about whether or not these
> >lines have been crossed," the congressman continued. "Because, clearly, when you
> >have people shouting anti-Semitic and racist and homophobic things on the steps
> >of the Capitol, when you have threats going to members of Congress that - that
> >someone...has to take responsibility for this incitement."
>
> >"And I think that at least some of it has to go to - to her responsibility."
> >]
>
> >Weiner, who was outspoken throughout the health care debate, received
> >threatening letters - including one containing white powder that caused the
> >closure of his Queens office. The powder appears to have been antacid.
>
> Steele, who is occasionally halfway sensible when his fellows are
> being assholes, has thrown in with the assholes this time.http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/35096.htmlApparently these
> nitwits won't be happy until they're on the wrong side of every last
> issue, even the easiest ones. If some gummer-type wacko gets lucky,
> palin, boner, and steele will have some 'splainin to do. Of course,
> they've given up most pretense of logic, and care primarily about
> riling up their base. Pretty sad.
>
> Wayne- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

And since they are private citizens, they can be included in any civil
suit that is filed to recover damages when someone is injured or
killed due to their encouraging violence.

TMT

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The True Colours of Teabaggers
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/e77fb546fe14b090?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:14 pm
From: Lookout

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 14:53:39 -0400, Cliff
<Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:

>On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 04:11:13 -0500, Lookout <mrLookout@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 24 Mar 2010 19:22:48 -0700, tankfixer <paul.carrier@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In article <bp8jq51bdi2fk3pg58721n7palppltovo7@4ax.com>,
>>>Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>>>>
>>>> On 21 Mar 2010 21:21:05 GMT, D Murphy <dmurf154@att.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >The crowd was far from uniform.
>>>>
>>>> Let's take away their socialist medicare, unemployment & social security.
>>>
>>>I always figured you for a facist.
>>>Thanks for confirming it
>>
>>Ahh...so YOU want it but you don't want anyone else to have it!
>>Typical narrow minded immature conservative.
>
> Just thinking of ways to grant THEIR wishes.
> They still believe in fairies, right?
>
>
>http://www.thelangreport.com/featured/sarah-palins-demon-haunted-churches-does-this-scare-you/
> "Sarah Palin's Demon Haunted Churches - DOES THIS SCARE YOU?"
>[
>Governor 's churches are actively involved in a resurgent movement that was
>declared heretical by the Assemblies of God in 1949. This is the same
>'Spiritual Warfare' movement that was featured in the award winning movie,
>"Jesus Camp," which showed young children being trained to do battle for the
>Lord. At least three of four of Palin's churches are involved with major
>organizations and leaders of this movement, which is referred to as The Third
>Wave of the Holy Spirit or the New Apostolic Reformation. The movement is
>training a young "Joel's Army" to take dominion over the United States and the
>world.
>....
>]
Not really. I think the evangelical movement is dying.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: What material for grill grate
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/9468b445cbbb194d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:18 pm
From: Ignoramus11443

On 2010-03-27, John <amdinc@intergrafix.net> wrote:
> Ignoramus11443 wrote:
>> We have a "stainless steel grill" from Sam's club. While the outside
>> is stainless, the burners, as well as the lower grate, are not, and
>> have almost completely rotted.
>>
>> I will hopefully replace the burners, if I can find stainless
>> replacements. I would like to decide how to replace the lower grate. I
>> doubt that I can find 1:1 replacement for it. The job of the lower
>> grate is to hold ceramic plates, not meat. It was made of what looks
>> like steel that rusted almost completely.
>>
>> I thought to just buy some thicker steel, or stainless, rod and weld
>> it together. The question is what is the recommended material.
>>
>> i
>
>
> 316L would be top of the line
>

John,

1/4" thick, 6 ft long, 316L stainless rods cost $11.08 each at
McMaster-Carr. This is pretty cheap, as I think that three or four
rods will be enough. 316L welds very nicely and should work out well.

304L is cheaper, though, would it practicaly be inferior to 316L for a
grill grate?

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:54 pm
From: "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Ignoramus11443 <ignoramus11443@NOSPAM.11443.invalid> fired this volley in
news:24GdnbYthJjDDzPWnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@giganews.com:

> 304L is cheaper, though, would it practicaly be inferior to 316L for a
> grill grate?

316 is more corrosion resistant, but all of them lose their corrosion
resistance once heated too high.

If I were you, I'd be looking for some 11ga 316 expanded lath, rather than
going to all the trouble of cutting and welding. Anywhere you weld the
material, unless you re-heat treat it, you'll end up with rust.

LLoyd

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:59 pm
From: John

Ignoramus11443 wrote:
> On 2010-03-27, John<amdinc@intergrafix.net> wrote:
>> Ignoramus11443 wrote:
>>> We have a "stainless steel grill" from Sam's club. While the outside
>>> is stainless, the burners, as well as the lower grate, are not, and
>>> have almost completely rotted.
>>>
>>> I will hopefully replace the burners, if I can find stainless
>>> replacements. I would like to decide how to replace the lower grate. I
>>> doubt that I can find 1:1 replacement for it. The job of the lower
>>> grate is to hold ceramic plates, not meat. It was made of what looks
>>> like steel that rusted almost completely.
>>>
>>> I thought to just buy some thicker steel, or stainless, rod and weld
>>> it together. The question is what is the recommended material.
>>>
>>> i
>>
>>
>> 316L would be top of the line
>>
>
> John,
>
> 1/4" thick, 6 ft long, 316L stainless rods cost $11.08 each at
> McMaster-Carr. This is pretty cheap, as I think that three or four
> rods will be enough. 316L welds very nicely and should work out well.
>
> 304L is cheaper, though, would it practicaly be inferior to 316L for a
> grill grate?
>
> i

Actually any of the 300 series stainless steels would work. The 316L has
more nickel in it and is more resistant to corrosion. The L designates
that it is low carbon content and that helps to keep corrosion to a
minimum. The 304 will work fine. Don't use 303 as it has a higher
sulfur content and will not weld well.

John

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:22 pm
From: Ignoramus11443

On 2010-03-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
> Ignoramus11443 <ignoramus11443@NOSPAM.11443.invalid> fired this volley in
> news:24GdnbYthJjDDzPWnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@giganews.com:
>
>> 304L is cheaper, though, would it practicaly be inferior to 316L for a
>> grill grate?
>
> 316 is more corrosion resistant, but all of them lose their corrosion
> resistance once heated too high.
>
> If I were you, I'd be looking for some 11ga 316 expanded lath, rather than
> going to all the trouble of cutting and welding. Anywhere you weld the
> material, unless you re-heat treat it, you'll end up with rust.

Are they going to rust just on the surface, or all the way through? I
thought that stainless was self passivating.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:45 pm
From: John

Ignoramus11443 wrote:
> On 2010-03-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>> Ignoramus11443<ignoramus11443@NOSPAM.11443.invalid> fired this volley in
>> news:24GdnbYthJjDDzPWnZ2dnUVZ_uSdnZ2d@giganews.com:
>>
>>> 304L is cheaper, though, would it practicaly be inferior to 316L for a
>>> grill grate?
>>
>> 316 is more corrosion resistant, but all of them lose their corrosion
>> resistance once heated too high.
>>
>> If I were you, I'd be looking for some 11ga 316 expanded lath, rather than
>> going to all the trouble of cutting and welding. Anywhere you weld the
>> material, unless you re-heat treat it, you'll end up with rust.
>
> Are they going to rust just on the surface, or all the way through? I
> thought that stainless was self passivating.
>
> i

The question is how much heat will there be on the metal? If you are
heating up the ceramic bricks and they sit on top of the grate heavy
cast iron will hold up better than stainless.

John

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anniversary of an amazingly enduring design
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/57c9c3facffdfb67?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:45 pm
From: pyotr filipivich

Let the Record show that Don Foreman <dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net>
on or about Sat, 27 Mar 2010 11:10:22 -0500 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 09:45:37 -0500, Ignoramus11443
><ignoramus11443@NOSPAM.11443.invalid> wrote:
>
>>That's a very enduring design, yes. I actually own a Beretta and love
>>it. How does that .45 handle, is the recoil a little too much?
>>
>>i
>
>Most people don't seem to find the recoil of a 1911 to be an issue.
>There is recoil, but it's "mellow" rather than "sharp" like a .40S&W
>or 10mm and there's 40 oz of mass there to help soak it up. You
>would notice more recoil than with your Beretta but I don't think it'd
>bother you.

That's what my brother whined about, as one of the signs of
advancing old age: the 45 was heavy, and he was considering going to a
9mm... or spend more time working out.

pyotr

-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:59 pm
From: Wes

"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:

>> Of course that configuration isn't a tack driver but then the M1911 was
>> designed for close
>> in use. Longer distances, use a rife.
>>
>> Wes
>
>An accurized 1911 will shoot 2" groups at 50 yards. Mine would when I
>inherited it (it's a 1941 M70 Colt-manufactured military model, never shot
>before it was sold through the NRA, which my uncle had accurized around
>1965). But it's gotten a little looser over the years.

As soon as you accurize them, like peen the frame rails to tighten up the slide and such,
I doubt it would pass military acceptance tests.

>
>I considered hunting javelina with it, but my SSM Ruger will shoot groups
>about half that size (the gun can, but I can't. <g>).

If I want an accurate handgun I pick my revolvers or my T/C Contender depending on use.

Wes

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:52 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

If you can catch teabaggers in the act, you should also
bring a friend with a digicam to catch the facial
expressions.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4bae8b0b$0$5000$607ed4bc@cv.net...

Unless you're planning to hunt teabaggers, Iggy, you'll need
to run like
hell to do any practical hunting with that bayonet. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:57 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:RYwrn.140851$rq1.106071@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>>> Of course that configuration isn't a tack driver but then the M1911 was
>>> designed for close
>>> in use. Longer distances, use a rife.
>>>
>>> Wes
>>
>>An accurized 1911 will shoot 2" groups at 50 yards. Mine would when I
>>inherited it (it's a 1941 M70 Colt-manufactured military model, never shot
>>before it was sold through the NRA, which my uncle had accurized around
>>1965). But it's gotten a little looser over the years.
>
> As soon as you accurize them, like peen the frame rails to tighten up the
> slide and such,
> I doubt it would pass military acceptance tests.

Sure. I don't know how they do it now, but the rails of mine were peened; it
had a bullseye trigger job; and so on. This wears out eventually and they
get loose again. I've put a lot of rounds through mine.

>
>>
>>I considered hunting javelina with it, but my SSM Ruger will shoot groups
>>about half that size (the gun can, but I can't. <g>).
>
> If I want an accurate handgun I pick my revolvers or my T/C Contender
> depending on use.

One of the gun magazines reported at the time that the SSM was the most
accurate revolver, out-of-the-box, that they had ever tested. It can shoot a
lot straighter than I can.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: News travels, even in a blackout was Republican losing streak continues
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/acd15706db55f813?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:45 pm
From: pyotr filipivich

Let the Record show that Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> on or
about Tue, 23 Mar 2010 00:18:10 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>>Problem is Larry, It'll never get out. The "media" will hush up
>>>>all the un-happy bitchin that soon will be out there. :-(
>>>> ...Lew...
>>>
>>>Until the Leftwing Media becomes a nice fat group of targets for anyone
>>>with a tinsey bit of knowledge and a high power rifle, or a truck load
>>>of fertilizer. Im afraid its gonna change the face of Rockefeller Plaza
>>>and others....
>>
>> It doesn't have to "get out". A), those who take them out, will
>>know; B) it will be noticed that certain Celebrities / Pundits /
>>Editorialists have not been heard from in a while;and that ought to be
>>enough to C) convince those who aren't in the first decimation that
>>something is up. Which will lead to more and more deciding to "spend
>>more time with the family", etc, etc.
>
>Quite true indeed, if the People were made up of combat teams.
>But..sigh...they are often made up of amatures who simply know how to
>sight and squeeze and are marginally smart enough to bair out
>immediately afterwards.

As is said, pros are predictable, but amateurs ....

>
>And frankly...word really should get out that those Bastions of Leftwing
>Media had their lungs perforated etc etc. At least..a bunch of them
>should be publicly terminated with extreme predjudice as encouragement
>for other members of the People.
>
>"And Live with Bob Kelly!
>
>On todays note...the mysterious deaths of liberal Democrats continue
>unabated
>
>No one knows why this is hapWHAP!!!!!
>
>And now back to the studio......" as the guys brains are wiped off the
>cohost. Or the studio suddenly blows out all of its windows, etc etc
>etc Or the camera truck drives over a command detonated platter
>charge.

Yeah, that would be ... well, I'm not going to say "entertaining"
but in this day and age of Reality Shows and Video Games, there will
be those who see that as "Entertainment." (Remember "The Mao ts Tung
Hour" in the movie Network?)

B) & C) above will occur. Even if there is a media blackout, and
those which can't be ignored are spun as "inexplicable random events
with no connection to each other." there will be those who will know,
and will be informed. Cellphones (twitter, etc) will work, and
Rumorcontrol will spread "the word". "Just a heads up"/ For Your
Information.
Fark, you were in the service. You know about NSTHS! (No Shit!
this is The Hot Skinny) from a guy who has a buddy in the comm shack
... (My Dad's analysis of the predictions of a Soviet Victory in
Europe due to the inability of the command to get the information up
the chain of command: "They've obviously ignored the ability of a
lieutenant to jump in a jeep and drive to HQ!") So, someone in ABC
is going to call their friend at the DNC and say "have you heard? So
and so was found dead! Cops say it was suicide - but ... he was
allergic to peanut butter!"

Meanwhile, the 80% who wonder what happened, will still continue
to wonder. How many of them will continue to believe the Democrat
Media Outlets is anyone's guess. But that is a topic for Our Boys in
counter Psy-Ops.

tschus
pyotr

-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: The Great Reneger
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8ad78ad9690bc047?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:55 pm
From: pyotr filipivich

Let the Record show that "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> on or about Sat, 27 Mar 2010
11:01:54 -0400 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>Thanks. Good video. I guess there are negers and re-negers?
>Don't you just hate people who neg you all the time?

I'm still wondering what buke is.. I mean, how can I be rebuked
if I haven't been buked?

tschus
pyotr

-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:43 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

I've also had the same kind of question. Do snow removal
companies move the snow twice?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"pyotr filipivich" <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:al6tq5l94atnln9j6hmhnipf2ui1tbr0p2@4ax.com...
Let the Record show that "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> on or about Sat, 27 Mar
2010
11:01:54 -0400 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>Thanks. Good video. I guess there are negers and re-negers?
>Don't you just hate people who neg you all the time?

I'm still wondering what buke is.. I mean, how can I be
rebuked
if I haven't been buked?

tschus
pyotr

-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Western snow plow with all hydraulics and controller
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f415f0567c066041?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:55 pm
From: pyotr filipivich

Let the Record show that Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> on or
about Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:10:01 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 20:47:06 -0500, Ignoramus30639
><ignoramus30639@NOSPAM.30639.invalid> wrote:
>
>>pictures
>>
>>http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Western-Snow-Plow/
>
>
>You did really good Iggy.
>
>Gunner, who has seen snow up close...5 times in the last 40 yrs

Got a good telescope, eh?

LOl
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Hardwood Flooring
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/68660c4f6d11e53c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:55 pm
From: Steve Ackman

In <g36rq5lrka1h3givoc4k49o1m009tjtc6v@4ax.com>, on Fri, 26 Mar 2010
22:34:01 -0700, Larry Jaques, ljaques@diversify.invalid wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:13:10 GMT, the infamous notme@privacy.net (dan)
> scrawled the following:
>
>>What's that Lassie? You say that Pete C. fell down the old
>>rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
>>by Fri, 26 Mar 2010 14:05:54 -0500:

[ ... ]

>>Bamboo is not as hard as oak and will get marked up in short order.
>>Friend of mine has it (wife wanted it for the green angle) and regrets
>>it.
>
> Hmm, it shows up as about 25% harder, 1762 vs 1260.
> http://www.bamboo-flooring-facts.com/bamboo_flooring_janka_hardness.htm

It was probably an engineered product which,
according to your link, only rates out at 1690... and
if it was carbonized at all, that further reduces
hardness. At the other end of the spectrum is the
stranded bamboo, which rates at 3014!

Obviously, there are a LOT of variables in bamboo
flooring. Species used, glue used, vertical or horiz
orientation, carbonized or not, solid, engineered,
or stranded... not to even mention installation
methods and surface finishes.

We have a bamboo cutting board that's convinced me
I'd like to have bamboo floors some day.

--
☯☯

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DIY surge protection...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fa560b93f2504a9b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 4:58 pm
From: westom

On Mar 26, 6:35 pm, trade...@optonline.net wrote:
> Most of those same responsible companies also sell plug-in surge
> protectors too. Some recommend using them in conjunction with their
> whole house surge protectors.

And so would I. If you are so misinformed as to spend up to $150
for an APC or Monster protector, well, GE sells the equivalent product
for $15.

Meanwhile the IEEE puts numbers to this stuff. A properly earthed
'whole house' protector is 99.5 to 99.9% protection. That 'whole
house' protector required to even protect those ineffective plug-in
protectors. Plug-in protectors that will magically absorb hundreds of
thousands of joules can create these scary pictures (and the fire
marshal who describes why the threat exists:
http://www.hanford.gov/rl/?page=556&parent=554
http://www.ddxg.net/old/surge_protectors.htm
http://www.zerosurge.com/HTML/movs.html
http://tinyurl.com/3x73ol
http://www3.cw56.com/news/articles/local/BO63312/
http://www.nmsu.edu/~safety/news/lesson-learned/surgeprotectorfire.htm
http://www.pennsburgfireco.com/fullstory.php?58339

To avoid that failure, the informed consumer earths one 'whole
house' protector for about $1 per protected appliance. Then those $40
and $150 per appliance protectors for the additional 0.2% protection
might do something useful.

But then the IEEE says what a properly earthed 'whole house'
protector does:
> Still, a 99.5% protection level will reduce the incidence of direct strokes
> from one stroke per 30 years ... to one stroke per 6000 years ...

Why spend $60 per appliance for a plug-in protector once the
effective solution is installed? The 'whole house' protector is
required to even protect plug-in protectors. But that would not reap
obscene profits for the less responsible companies that only sell the
ineffective protector. So myths are promoted. Discussion of earth
ground avoided. Insult posted by the usual nay sayers.

The informed homeowner installed a 'whole house' protector for about
$1 per protected appliance. Then may spend tens of times more money
for a plug-in protector to add the maybe 0.2% additional protection so
that the surge maybe once every 6000 years might be further
constrained. Plug-in protectors without a 'whole house' protector do
not even claim to provide the necessary protection. But companies
such as Monster must forget that. A $3 power strip with some ten cent
protector parts and expensive paint selling for $150. Profit is its
real purpose.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:02 pm
From: Doug White

Doug White <gwhite@alum.mit.edu> wrote in
news:Xns9D43C6A738E52gwhitealummitedu@69.16.186.50:

> My wife is a big fan of the "Holmes on Homes" show (which is actually
> pretty good). They go around fixing messes previous contractors have
> made of house construction/renovation jobs. They regularly install
> whole house surge arrestors on the breaker panels when they re-wire a
> place.
>
> We've been thinking of getting one installed, so I did a little
> research. Leviton seems to be the biggest vendor in the US. They
> have an interesting dodge, which is a surge arrestor that goes in
> series with electric meter, inside the metter housing. In my case,
> this is outside of the house, which means if it turns into a fireball,
> it probably won't do a lot of damage. I also like the idea of
> stopping the surge as early in the wiring as possible.
>
> http://www.levitonproducts.com/catalog/model_50240-MSA.htm
>
> I've got a query in to see if it will fit in just any old meter
> housing, and how it compares with some of their breaker panel add-ons.
> Other than having to deal with the electric company to replace the
> seal on the meter housing, this thing looks like a snap (literally) to
> install. The cost of the suppressor is about the same for either
> approach, but the electrician should be able to install the meter
> version in considerably less than half the time.

I finally got an installation manual from Leviton for the the meter
housing unit. It is only rated fror 200 amps IF it is installed in a
specific Murray housing. I went out and checked, and our housing isn't a
Murray. I also studied my meter, and it is one of the new electronic
remote read units. It fills up inside of the clear cover much more than
an old fashioned meter, and I doubt it would work with the Leviton even
if we had the right housing.

So, I'm back to finding a good unit to attach to the breaker panel. It's
too bad, because the earth ground has a more direct connection to the
meter box than to the breaker panel.

Doug White

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Some CAD/CAM history
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fe8dd334dae30f96?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:05 pm
From: cncmillgil

On Mar 27, 1:06 pm, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Mar 2010 03:57:14 -0700 (PDT), cncmillgil <mil...@cin.net> wrote:
> >WTF? ya can't run thin minimally shielded RS232 wires around
> >the conduit that has 460V for the big ass arc welder in back?
>
> The conduit is both grounded AND a Faraday cage, right?
> And magnetic fields should cancel, right?
> --
> Cliff

no canceling of cosmic rays batman, those sneaky bastards go through
damn near everything, except lead or gold? unless of course you "lost"
on the island<g> That SOB can do any freekin thing! WTH?

I had a service tech tell me about that years ago when the tape prep
teletype system kept crashing & burning. Oh cosmic rays, ya thats
whats doin it. He had them charted on a calender & matched them up to
the amount of service calls they were getting.
Oh man its almost April 15th! Fuckin huge cosmic ray up the ass day.
LMAO

==============================================================================
TOPIC: So Much For 'Energy Star' Ratings
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5403aac4554cfb17?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:21 pm
From: Erik

Always had a feeling 'Energy Star' ratings were a mostly bogus hype...
looks like I was right.

http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/03/26/2322208

Erik

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Barbecue Grill burner replacements
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fb9fa64bdb94b52c?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 5:21 pm
From: Ignoramus11443

I have a stainless steel grill that we bought from Sam's Club.

http://igor.chudov.com/misc/ebay/tmp/tmp-6648.jpg

After 8 years, the iron burners on it rotted considerably. As I look
for replacements, I see "cast iron burners" available at many
websites. Example is here:

http://www.gasngrills.com/members-mark-cast-iron-burner-29251.html

I was hoping to find stainless burners so that the new ones would not
rust. Realistically speaking, is that "cast iron" any more rust
resistant than the original material, or are they also going to rot?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Closing aluminium tube ends
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5d4e22498f315783?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 6:00 pm
From: "RAM�"

"Robin" <creffield@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:090123f6-8f9d-4cb0-9a32-7f623b319925@g11g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
On 27 Mar, 18:59, whit3rd <whit...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mar 26, 1:29 pm, Robin <creffi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm working on a little project (a spotlight) that is basically a bit
> > of aluminium tubing, 50mm ID, 5mm wall thickness. I was wondering the
> > best way to close the end of the tube
> > c) Cut a chamfered plug and bond it to the tube - not sure what
> > adhesive to use
>
> How about solder? With the right fluxes and aluminum solder you
> get a good tight join. Drawn plug of soft aluminum would be
> suitable, too.

> I've got some aluminium solder stuff, Lumiweld or similar, but can
> never seem to get the same results the demonstrator shows! Didn't come
> with flux - you had to melt a pool of solder and then scratch through
> to break the oxide - I think it then reacted with the aluminium to
> break the rest of the oxide. Not sure how I'd do it with this
> application

Try cleaning/saanding the tubing end just before using the stuff.

This will eliminate the oxide issue and enable a better bond.

The demonstrator probably did his demonstration just after giving a spiel
during which he was "brightening" his materials.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT -- off grid power systems
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/284c9711ef5c39e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Mar 27 2010 6:02 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 07:02:23 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jesse
<jrb65@rochester.rr.com> scrawled the following:

>On Mar 27, 9:40�am, Larry Jaques <ljaq...@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 05:39:48 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins
>> <kb1...@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
>>
>> >On Mar 26, 9:37 pm, David Lesher <wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
>> >> I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar
>> >> array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid
>> >> {"meter backwards"}.
>>
>> >> And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered
>> >> around such.
>>
>> >A few offgridders have posted on alt.energy.homepower but the level of
>> >technical info was far lower than here on R.C.M.
>>
>> I'm interested in this stuff, too, and found the same lack of in-depth
>> info on AEH depressing. �The breadth and depth of info found here is
>> wonderful. �Great group.
>>
>> --
>> � � "Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
>> � � � � � � � � � � � � � � -=-=-
>
>Try searching Backwoodshome.com. It is a magazine for self-reliant
>living. You can search their back issues for past articles. It is a
>great magazine. Tons of solar articles over the years.

Thanks. I'll give 'er a looksee.

--
"Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein
-=-=-

==============================================================================

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Saturday, March 27, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

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