twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 15 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: On carbon vs. stainless steel in grills
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/6792301c4ff731b6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Tues, Apr 6 2010 11:40 pm
From: Ernie Leimkuhler

In article <ge3nr59j81v6p2na5fsqhoqk2nm7o485fc@4ax.com>, Oren
<Oren@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 14:08:19 -0500, Ignoramus17356
> <ignoramus17356@NOSPAM.17356.invalid> wrote:
>
> >On 2010-04-06, Leo Lichtman <leo.lichtman@att.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> "Ignoramus17356" wrote: Yes, Sir, indeed stainless is good stuff.
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> A rose is a rose is a rose--but stainless comes in a variety of alloys.
> >> From your experience, some are good in the barbecue, but others may not
> >> be.
> >
> >It looks like my barbecue is using the particular alloy that is good
> >in barbecues.
> >
> >i
>
> When I bought my grill, I used the "magnet test for stainless steel" *
> The magnet did not stick to the grill grates and have not rusted in
> the five years I've had it.
>
> "If the magnet sticks, don't buy it."
>
> http://bbq.about.com/od/gasgrills/a/aa052706a.htm
>

Try walking through the IKEA kitchen section with a small magnet.
Amazing how much of their "stainless steel" is magnetic.
Surprised the hell out of me when I first noticed it.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Reducing diameter of straight drill bits
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7262d560ac9bab6e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 12:13 am
From: "Jeff R."

"azotic" <azotic@cox.net> wrote in message
news:FvVun.166725$2r7.79525@newsfe05.iad...
>
> "Ignoramus17356" <ignoramus17356@NOSPAM.17356.invalid> wrote in message
> news:5budncWeAOP5iyHWnZ2dnUVZ_sqdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>>I need to drill some 21/32 holes with a hand drill, not accessible to
>> drill press.
>>
>> I do not have a reduced shank 21/32 drill bit and new they cost $30+.
>> I have a 21/32 straight shank drill bit, but it is too wide to fit any
>> of my handheld electric drills, which go up to 1/2".
>>
>> I thought I could reduce a shank of that drill bit by simply chucking
>> it in a lathe and taking off some diameter with a carbide tool. What
>> are the drawbacks, if any, of doing so?
>>
>> i
>
> Hold the drill using a 5C collet, or use a 4 jaw chuck and indicate the
> drill
> till it runs true. If you use a 3 jaw chuck you may encounter some runout.

...and you won't need a carbide tool ('though it won't hurt).
Drill shanks are nice and soft, and easy to machine. I use HSS tools with
excellent results.

--
Jeff R.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 3:50 am
From: Jim Wilkins

On Apr 7, 1:21 am, Ignoramus17356 <ignoramus17...@NOSPAM.
17356.invalid> wrote:
> ...
>
> I thought I could reduce a shank of that drill bit by simply chucking
> it in a lathe and taking off some diameter with a carbide tool. What
> are the drawbacks, if any, of doing so?
>
> i

HSS drill bits are easy to turn smaller but then they slip more easily
in the chuck. If you have 5C collets and a hex block or indexer you
could mill three flats to get it into the drill chuck.

21/32" is the tap drill for 3/4-10 so I wouldn't change it enough that
it no longer fits the larger chuck.

jsw

==============================================================================
TOPIC: GOP senator likely to be indicted
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/40cb7c3aa5d1ec37?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 12:15 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 19:12:08 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian"
<Egal@legal_egal.law> wrote:

>
>
>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>news:7dvlr5lb09faotoh4te9gorj87urc8qtud@4ax.com...
>> http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0405/paper-gop-senator-indicted/
>> "Paper: GOP senator likely to be indicted"
>> [
>> Nevada Republican Sen. John Ensign is likely to be indicted for a $96,000
>
>Chimp change compared to the dollars being spent by the current
>administration.

Who was that black Demonrat that had a $100k in his freezer?

I think he recently was convicted.

And the Lefties really really outdid themselves trying to make him look
good....<G>

Gunner

"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 5:12 am
From: Cliff

On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 19:12:08 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian" <Egal@legal_egal.law>
wrote:

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/family-values-sen-john-ensign-admits-extra-marital-affair
""Family Values" Sen. John Ensign Admits Extra-Marital Affair"
[
He is a key religious right operative on Capitol Hill, a lawmaker with possible
presidential ambitions, and a deceitful hypocrite.

Meet Sen. John Ensign, a Republican senator from Nevada, and a sanctimonious
blowhard with a staunch "family values" voting record who opposes abortion
rights, wants to re-instate teacher-led prayer in public schools, and steps up
to the nearest podium to denounce other public officials who engage in private
sexual misconduct. He is also active in the Promise Keepers movement, and
according to one news report,?"resists temptation" by not being alone in a room
with a woman other than his wife. Now, the spotlight is on Ensign who admitted
Tuesday that he engaged in an extra-marital affair with a woman who had served
on his campaign. staff. According to a spokesperson, Ensign and the unidentified
staffer carried on their tryst between December 2007 and August 2008. Her
husband worked in Ensign's Capitol Hill office at the time.
....
]

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Adultery-a-GOP-Family-Val-by-Walter-Barton-090624-91.html
"Adultery, a GOP Family Value"
[
....
If it is not adultery, then it is other family values. Republican Rush Limbaugh
committed adultery and is a serial monogamist. Bill O'Reilly enjoys phone sex.
Ted Haggard, evangelical leader, likes gay sex. Senator Larry Craig likes gay
bathroom fellatio.
....
]

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Zero Fog mister
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/22195531e109151f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 12:40 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 23:14:55 -0400, Ned Simmons <news@nedsim.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 22:09:29 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
><joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>In article <Xns9D52622595556lloydspmindspringcom@216.168.3.70>,
>> "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Joseph Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> fired this volley in news:joegwinn-
>>> 51CB1B.09202406042010@news.giganews.com:
>>>
>>> > What application understands a .DWG file?
>>>
>>> AutoCAD, Rhino, and there are several others.
>>
>>OK.
>>
>>
>>> Besides that, you can get freeware .dwg "readers" all over. No CAD
>>> features, just display/print the file.
>>
>>Which readers by name will do this?
>
>Truview is Autodesk's free viewer -- .dwg is the native autocad file
>format. It allows you to view, print, and take measurements from a
>drawing in .dwg or .dxf format.
>http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/pc/index?id=6703438&siteID=123112

Thats one I use. Its right handy.

Gunner

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 4:23 am
From: "Karl Townsend"

> A question though.........what do you use as the "coolant"? I
> presently only use flood coolant of a soluble-oil type that is a 20:1
> mix with tap water.

I use exactly the same. The fresh made goes to the CNC mill. I have a drain
tube to a pail on the table. The recycle then goes into the saw. When
running 304 SS, I up the concentration to 8 or 10% but normally 5%.

I used to use koolmist. But there's been no need for this more expensive
material.

Karl

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jon Banquer invades VX Forum
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8c4c0e70a6085103?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 12:49 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 17:01:04 -0700, Larry Jaques
<ljaques@diversify.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 15:08:00 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
><gunnerasch@gmail.com> scrawled the following:
>
>>On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 14:22:26 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><ljaques@diversify.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 16:04:38 +0100, the infamous Mark Rand
>>><randm@internettie.co.uk> scrawled the following:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 07:56:33 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
>>>><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Snag" <snag_one@comcast.net> fired this volley in news:hvFun.49247
>>>>>$iu2.19013@newsfe15.iad:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Moties have escaped , the Moties have escaped !
>>>>>
>>>>>So... here's one in YOUR eye!
>>>>>
>>>>>LLoyd
>>>>
>>>>But, on the gripping hand...
>>>
>>>I started _The Mote in God's Eye_ the night before last. This is my
>>>second read of it, having read ALL available copies of Larry Niven
>>>novels (100+) in the last decade. Havaing just read some Heinlein
>>>recently, I can now say that I've enjoyed Niven's writings a tad more
>>>than even Heinlein's. Norton, Deitz, Drake, Ringo, and Hunter are all
>>>tied for third. ;)
>
>Oops, forgot Weber.
>
>
>>David Webers Honor Harrington series..I just finised the the entire lot
>>over the past 5 days. I think there are 14 of them.
>>
>>But if you read them...read them in ORDER.
>
>Absolutely. Our library was missing one and I missed a lot of
>reference by not reading it. Yes, excellent. My favorite was
>_On Basilisk Station_.
>
>P.S: I'll bet you LOVED her treecat, Nimitz, especially after she
>learned to read his feelings during one particular duel. (Crom, I
>loved that one.)

Which duel..Young and the gun, or the other guy with the sword?

<G>

In the last 2 or 3 of the series (and its hardly done yet)...the
treecats are taught Sign Language..and start putting their two cents
in..and people start listening....

Gunner

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 12:52 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:28:23 -0400, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:

>"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller) fired this volley in news:hpf4vh$gv7$3
>>@news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> And on the gripping hand, there's.... you.
>>
>>AHAH! Another sci-fi fan! <G>
>>
>>LLoyd
>
>A while back in a search for space, I almost tossed my old paperbacks. I managed to toss
>a few periodicals but I couldn't dump the books.
>
>I need to create an index of my scifi and other books that have barcodes. I have a
>scanner, I just need a way to turn the barcode data into an entry into a database of what
>I have on hand.
>
>I *hate* buying a book I have.
>
>Wes

Chuckle..Ive got about 6000 books, of which probably 3000 are scifi
...another 1500 are military histories...and I have about 30 multiple
copies, from Heinlein, to Cardnal of the Kremlin....sigh

One book..Ive found 4 different copies of the same book....

Gunner, who hits second hand stores for books. Hardbacks for 35 cents
are a good deal..if you have room....

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 2:22 am
From: pyotr filipivich

Let the Record show that Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> on or
about Wed, 07 Apr 2010 00:52:29 -0700 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 18:28:23 -0400, Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>>"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>spambait@milmac.com (Doug Miller) fired this volley in news:hpf4vh$gv7$3
>>>@news.eternal-september.org:
>>>
>>>> And on the gripping hand, there's.... you.
>>>
>>>AHAH! Another sci-fi fan! <G>
>>>
>>>LLoyd
>>
>>A while back in a search for space, I almost tossed my old paperbacks. I managed to toss
>>a few periodicals but I couldn't dump the books.
>>
>>I need to create an index of my scifi and other books that have barcodes. I have a
>>scanner, I just need a way to turn the barcode data into an entry into a database of what
>>I have on hand.
>>
>>I *hate* buying a book I have.
>>
>>Wes
>
>
>Chuckle..Ive got about 6000 books, of which probably 3000 are scifi
>...another 1500 are military histories...and I have about 30 multiple
>copies, from Heinlein, to Cardnal of the Kremlin....sigh
>
>One book..Ive found 4 different copies of the same book....
>
>Gunner, who hits second hand stores for books. Hardbacks for 35 cents
>are a good deal..if you have room....

I dumped books last winter - had to go, I just need the space,
them out, etc ... now I'm hitting the second had stores to replace
some of them. Have to carry a list - I have volume 3, need two and
six - ha, there's the anthology!

Oh, and the other day, I bought four dollars worth of paperback -
and found a two dollar bill in one. One more reason to make sure you
remove all your bookmarks before disposing of books.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A slo-mo crash, with little drama and no damage
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/edb3bbf007e44b25?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 12:53 am
From: "T.Alan Kraus"

On 4/6/2010 7:47 PM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
> I was making an arbor for a Norton aluminum-oxide 4" cup grinding wheel from
> mild steel using the Clausing 5914 Lathe, and had a minor misadventure.
>
> The stock is a 2.5" diameter 12L14 alloy bar held in the 3-jaw chuck. The part
> I was working on is 1.000" diameter by 2" long, sticking out to the right where
> the 2.5" diameter bar has been turned down. There must have been two pounds of
> chips in the pan by then.
>
> Anyway, I'm making a near final pass under relatively slow power feed using a
> BXA-16N toolholder, and the flat full face of the carbide insert comes up
> against the machined end face of the bar. Instead of machining the face a
> little flatter, the whole BXA tool post rotates on the compound, causing the bit
> on the BXA-16N to dig a bit deeper. There were no groans or loud noises, but
> still this is not a good idea.
>
> Anyway, I realized what was going on, and managed to stop the show before
> anything bad happened, leaving only an undercut as evidence.
>
> Another lesson on the way to becoming a machinist.
>
> Joe Gwinn

I put a piece of ordinary notebook paper under my tool post to provide a
bit of friction. Seems to work.

cheers
T.Alan

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Anyone have an External Hard drive available?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/4ad5b9a20cfca5fd?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 12:59 am
From: sittingduck

wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 11:29:58 -0700, sittingduck
> <duck@spamherelots.com> wrote:
>
>>Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>
>>> Where do you think those front panel USB ports go?
>>
>>Stupid question, don't you think?
>>To a long wire that connects to some pins on usb headers.
>>They are typically weaker than the regular usb ports.
>
>
> The USB port supplies a maximum of 500ma per port at 5 volts. The wire
> is mabee a foot long - so total 2 feet of conductor. SAY it is 28
> guage. Resistance is 212 ohms per KM, or 0.0054359 ohms per inch 0r
> roughly 0.13 ohms for the 2 foot assembly. Voltage drop under full
> load is 0.13X.500= 0.065 volts.
>
> That's 32 milliwats of power loss.
> Totally inconsequential in my books.

Blame it on something else then, I don't care.
Fact is, they are often weaker. Use them enough, and you'll believe.

--
Rationality belongs to the cool observer, but because of the stupidity of
the average man, he follows not reason but faith - Reinhold Niebuhr

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Future Space programs Re: Anniversary of an amazingly enduring design
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/57c9c3facffdfb67?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 1:43 am
From: pyotr filipivich

Let the Record show that "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> on or about Tue, 6 Apr 2010
23:50:51 -0400 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>I'd like to think that the technology from the moon shot is
>probably still out there. The various wisdom needed to
>manufacture rockets is likely archived in a government
>building, stored safely on IBM punch cards.

To use an expression "It ain't rocket science. Even rocket
science isn't rocket science!"

We're still making rockets. We still have the plans. Setting up
the production lines will take some doing. Mostly it will take Will,
political and otherwise.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 1:43 am
From: pyotr filipivich

Let the Record show that cavelamb <""cavelamb\"@ X earthlink.net"> on
or about Tue, 06 Apr 2010 19:45:55 -0500 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On 4/6/2010 4:58 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>
>>>> Should we go back?
>>>>
>
>I'm all for everything you said, pytor.
>
>All I'm trying to point out is that the 1970's technology
>that took us to the moon - has been lost.
>We don't _have_ that capability any more.
>
>And without it, Mars is just another bright dot in the sky.

We do have the capacity. Shuttle B, Ares (the next heavy booster)
- not impossible. What we are losing is the human capital. Not just
the engineering geeks who did Apollo, or the Shuttle, but those who
wanted to see it happen. And, sad to say, the Obamacare bill means
there will be no money for any such projects. The progressives are
killing the dreams for the future.
>
>It's is the base technology needed for any further exploration.
>
>Have you figured out the trip time that comes along with that
>minimum delta-V profile?
>
>For how many people?

Zubrin figures he can put four people on Mars with 180 days travel
time, have them work on the planet for 550 days and then return for
another 180 days. Yeah it is a long assignment. So???
The Hab they worked out at about 1083 sq ft - about the size of a
double wide. "Cozy" but not impossible. And remember, these are
guys - give them a room and an Internet hookup, they'll be fine. B-)
Coming back, they'll be reviewing the data they collected. And making
plans.
To use another old saying "The world was explored by iron men and
wooden ships." Now we have iron ships and wooden men.
>
>If we can't live comfortably on the moon for that long, how
>can we expect to survive and interplanetary trip?
>
>And come back!

There's a difference between traveling to the Moon, where you have
to haul everything, and going to Mars. Which does have exploitable
resources.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 1:43 am
From: pyotr filipivich

Let the Record show that cavelamb <""cavelamb\"@ X earthlink.net"> on
or about Tue, 06 Apr 2010 21:35:54 -0500 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On 4/6/2010 8:52 PM, John R. Carroll wrote:
>> cavelamb"<""cavelamb\"@ X earthlink.net wrote:
>>> On 4/6/2010 4:58 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>>>>> Should we go back?
>>>>>>
>>> I'm all for everything you said, pytor.
>>>
>>> All I'm trying to point out is that the 1970's technology
>>> that took us to the moon - has been lost.
>>
>> Not just yet it hasn't.
>>
>>> We don't _have_ that capability any more.
>>
>> Sure we do, or we could build it.
>>
>
>No, John, respectfully, it's gone.
>
>The tooling to build Saturn Vs was broken up decades ago.
>The people who could do it - gone to ground, retired, or long dead.
>ALL of that will have to be re-invented.

Not reinvented, re-engineered. Crazy friend and I decided that
what we wanted to do was build a Ju88 - in titanium. Okay, this was
real pie in the wild sky stuff, but our main point is that it would be
lighter than the original, and - the design was proven. The same
goes for boosters.

Re-engineering a set of boosters is not that hard a project.
Remember, the US built a manned mission to the Moon "from the ground
up" in something like 8 years. Mercury, Gemini, Apollo; Teflon, Tang
and the rest - and all those lessons are learned. So it is not like
we'd have to reinvent everything. Re-engineer, of course. Hells
bells, the shuttle is 70s technology! has nothing been done in 40
years in materials technology which might improve upon that design? Is
that the best design that was available, anyway?
With cad systems, it would not be "difficult". Get it out of the
Government cost plus procurement process and it is even more feasible.
Hells bells, Paul Allen spent 25 million to make a private reusable
rocket, in order to win a $10 million dollar prize. Virgin Galactic
is working to make a seven man passenger space ship - and they are not
using Apollo technology.

Now, that said, to make the Mars Direct project viable it will
need heavy boosters. Those designs are on the books - Enregia from
Russia, the Ares next generation booster for NASA. There may be more.
I can also see some place like Brazil deciding to get into the
business too.
And India and China both have the potential for such a project.

>And - if you can't lift to the moon (which is where I came in),
>how the hell do you lift to Mars???

In terms of delta-V (the amount of velocity you have to change) it
is actually farther to the Moon's surface, than to Mars, by about a
third. Going to Mars via the moon is like flying from LA to Hawaii by
way of Sacramento, Mexico. Not only is it out of your way, but from
what I can tell, you'll probably have to haul your fuel with you, as
there doesn't seem to be an airport.

Zubrin figures two launches a year: the first one with the on site
fuel and Oxygen plant, with the Earth Return Vehicle, the second with
the Habitat and exploration vehicles.

Yeah, I'm pumped for the Mar Direct program. Yes, it will cost a
lot of money. Even for the Feds, 20 billion is not insignificant. (Or
it used to not be, but ... ) it can be done.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 3:17 am
From: "John R. Carroll"

Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Somewhere, there are probably a couple old guys who remember
> how. If they get thier daily Metamucil and fed properly,
> with plenty of naps. They could probably direct another
> missile shot.
>

I built a new coax design two years ago.
With modern equipment and an improved design, it developed 30 percent more
thrust and because it had been designed on a computer, we were able to
eliminate the acustic chamber needed on the original. That alone reduced the
weight by half.

Believe me, during the entitre build I was thinking about how some guy on a
manual Jig Bore had done what we were doing on a 5 axis milling machine.
They went through a lot of set up parts in the old days.

--
John R. Carroll

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mars Direct, or getting there is half the fun.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f278042885f73a5b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 1:43 am
From: pyotr filipivich

Okay, I decided to give with some URLS so that I don't have to type in
the whole bloody book.

First off, wikepedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Direct

Key features are given in this more technical web site.
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/marirect.htm

The Frontier is needed, and since the Old West closed a century ago,
there is this sense that "We've reached the edge of cultivation." But
space is still the final frontier, although for the foreseeable
future, I'm afraid we're going to be stuck with Mars as the only
habitable world. Not unless someone can figure out how to make Venus
habitable.
Here's a link to "The Promise of Mars." by Robert Zubrin
http://www.nss.org/settlement/mars/zubrin-promise.html

And because there is a wiki for just about everything - the MarsWiki
article.
http://www.newmars.com/wiki/index.php/Mars_Direct

Okay, that ought to answer a lot of questions.

My main issue in all this is that We, the American People, need a
frontier. If not for ourselves, then as an option for others, our
kids, or just because ... As a cutting edge where people are doing
new things (Or the same old things - making babies and a living - in
different ways and places.). We're not an ethnic group, to say "Us
Americans are those who have always been here." No, like the
Hungarian father told his son before emigrating "We are Americans, we
were just born in the wrong place." It is those ideas of America -
the 'root hog or die' mythos that units us, and drives us into the
future.
John F Kennedy aimed high by committing the US to putting a man on
the moon in ten years. We still need that sort of national goal. Not
necessarily a goal set by a government committee, but by a leader, a
statesman The President if possible, or someone else with a vision.
"For lack of a vision, the people perish".

tschus

pyotr

-
pyotr filipivich.
as an explaination for the decline in the US's tech edge, James
Niccol wrote "It used to be that the USA was pretty good at
producing stuff teenaged boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Who will be the first?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f434d5963fd21822?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 2:23 am
From: Gunner Asch

On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 01:25:21 -0500, Don Foreman
<dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 2 Apr 2010 17:51:26 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
><huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I have to agree that I'm surprised, often very surprised, to see people here
>>who I think are fine and level-headed people not objecting strongly to the
>>foulness of those character-deprived loudmouths. I can hardly stand to talk
>>to the "cullers," even those that are otherwise Ok. I just can't forget what
>>kind of attitudes are informing the things they say.
>>
>>But there's a big difference between the "cullers" themselves and the people
>>who just tolerate them. Some people here even tolerate overt racists. It's
>>just not for me.
>
>Irrelevant to the issue of cullers etc, we've exchanged discourse
>about racism and tolerance before. Tolerance is a politically correct
>buzzword that has no meaning without engagement but it plays well.
>Tolerance requires acceptance of behaviors one might find unfamiliar
>and possibly offensive, not because they harm anyone but because some
>behaviors of others that might be normal in their culture might be
>quite offensive to me. I'd say vice versa but I don't think I exhibit
>any behaviors that any of my neighbors find offensive or onerous.
>
>I don't defend racism, but I do note the enigma presented by
>intolerence of intolerance, outraged judgement of perceived
>predjudice, clamor seeking a podium.
>
>Accusation and condemnation of racism and other prejudices is
>sometimes less a matter of reality than one of semantics and intent to
>claim higher moral ground, social competition that used to be
>influenced in smaller communities by who went to church every Sunday.
>
I find it fascinating to be called a racist. So does my black
girlfriend.

Gunner

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Yonnie (bunko) Bonker's bog bit the dust !!!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f001d1a2878abc9e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 3:59 am
From: Cliff

On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 16:12:38 -0700 (PDT), Joe788 <joemama788@aol.com> wrote:

>On Apr 6, 3:33 pm, spamb...@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:
>> In article <482f68b4-1b1d-48e4-9ca4-cb098e78e...@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, Joe788 <joemama...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Photobucket has stats to see how many times a picture was viewed. I
>> >posted a picture of a chip conveyor over at Practical Machinist a few
>> >weeks ago, and it already has more views than Jon's blog ever had.
>> >LOL!
>>
>> Plus, you gotta figure that most of the hits on that blog were Jonnie Bonkers
>> himself, trying to inflate his statistics.
>
>How could you tell? It couldn't be all of those 5 star ratings he
>gives himself, could it?

How long has it been gone?
Nobody noticed.

And I'd wager he's about to be bounced from the VX forum soon too.
Too many pointed questions & far too few clues <VBG>.
--
Cliff

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 4:07 am
From: Cliff

On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 19:09:18 +0000 (UTC), Black Dragon <bd@nomail.invalid> wrote:

>DIVE!!! DIVE!!! DIVE!!!
>UP PERISCOPE!!!

Down Periscope
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_Periscope

>(Ooops, sorry, wrong fantasy.)

Lauren Holly
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Holly

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 4:08 am
From: Cliff

On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 14:09:36 -0700 (PDT), Joe788 <joemama788@aol.com> wrote:

>On Apr 6, 12:12 pm, Cliff <Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om>
>wrote:
>> http://jonbanquer.wordpress.com/
>> [
>> This blog has been archived or suspended for a violation of our Terms of
>> Service.
>> ]
>>
>> The most read on the net, eh?
>>
>> LOL
>> --
>> Cliff
>
>Photobucket has stats to see how many times a picture was viewed. I
>posted a picture of a chip conveyor over at Practical Machinist a few
>weeks ago, and it already has more views than Jon's blog ever had.
>LOL!

It was no doubt a very fine chip conveyor !!
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: More fun at the RNC
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/4dd5be57ef8db267?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 4:12 am
From: Cliff

On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 18:13:15 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian" <Egal@legal_egal.law>
wrote:

>
>
>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>news:rjplr551f1hp0v49230rslv8lvab37gha1@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 23:19:05 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian"
>> <Egal@legal_egal.law>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>>news:gpujr5533ra93hcl8knuo2a8qie1075ra5@4ax.com...
>>>> On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 19:03:22 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian"
>>>> <Egal@legal_egal.law>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>>>>news:ig4ir5lajg44s2mndqs1men83eselcn91b@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 10:09:29 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian"
>>>>>> <Egal@legal_egal.law>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>>>>>>news:m6vdr5lag2r33cfc816jjhpu5jsu7qm497@4ax.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Find those "WMDs" yet?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Did you try looking up your asshole?
>>>>
>>>> Find those "WMDs" yet?
>>>>
>>>Well did you? Take a look!
>>
>> You bought the winger lies & beg for more.
>> Find those "WMDs" yet?
>> --
>> Cliff
>
>It's dark up there, isn't it? Don't be afraid, just dive in like you always
>do.

You bought the winger lies & beg for more.
Find those "WMDs" yet?
How stupid can wingers get?
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A new "constitutional right"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8e77e80070fe5b42?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 4:14 am
From: Cliff

On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 12:53:01 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck <rangerssuck@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Apr 6, 1:27ï¿½pm, Poetic Justice <Twist-Of-F...@blackhole.Talk-n-
>Dog.com> wrote:
>> > In article <n3ogr5lpkv72bl60lit38ra40n5uja5...@4ax.com>,
>> > Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>>
>> >> On Sat, 3 Apr 2010 09:25:55 -0700, tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>> In article <v30er5l8ovoqiflo2jq9bssq14v272o...@4ax.com>,
>> >>> Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>>
>> >>>> On Fri, 2 Apr 2010 11:59:52 -0700, tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>> In article <1gicr5lb7jft4bm62l9ek0apsib5h08...@4ax.com>,
>> >>>>> Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>>
>> >>>>>> On Fri, 2 Apr 2010 11:47:39 -0700, tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>> In article <i8uar5phs7c9vv3c1uhe4g46mqvrer2...@4ax.com>,
>> >>>>>>> Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>>
>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, 1 Apr 2010 19:07:55 -0700, tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>>> In article <0fs5r5dbvbh6vrfiqec6m5gnhajjhgo...@4ax.com>,
>> >>>>>>>>> Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 19:11:00 -0700, tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> In article <mml0r5p29etm2kvp5jgcifq0n9m4k8r...@4ax.com>,
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 8 Feb 2010 19:30:36 -0800, tankfixer <paul.carr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> In article <a9qvm511bjhp3a8j5ur99kgt312mb5i...@4ax.com>,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Clhuprichguessw...@aoltmovetheperiodc.om says...
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ Hence the court had to make new law, right?
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What new law is that ?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Go ahead and take all the pages you need.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/22/us/politics/22scotus.html
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ "Overruling two important precedents about the First Amendment rights of
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> corporations, ..."
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ "The decision will be felt most immediately in the coming midterm elections
>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ..."
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> What new law was that ?
>> >>>>>>>>>>> You still havn't explained ...
>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ Wingers are always objecting to courts making "new law".
>> >>>>>>>>>> ï¿½ This case is a perfect example of such.
>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Yet you can't explain what that "new law" might be even given numerous
>> >>>>>>>>> opportunities..
>>
>> >>>>>>>> ï¿½ ï¿½I ï¿½can see you never paid attention in class either.
>> >>>>>>>> ï¿½ Any class. About anything.
>>
>> >>>>>>>> ï¿½ Eighth grade & out (knowing it all)?
>> >>>>>>>> ï¿½ At about age 19?
>>
>> >>>>>>> I can't speak to your education, or obvious lack thereof..
>>
>> >>>>>>> You still trying to find that new law you claim was made ?
>>
>> >>>>>> ï¿½ Was it legal before?
>> >>>>>> ï¿½ Nope.
>>
>> >>>>> Yup, it was entirely legal prior to your fascist buddies passing yet
>> >>>>> another unconstitutional law.
>>
>> >>>> ï¿½ What unconstitutional law might that be?
>>
>> >>> The McCann-Fiengold monstosity, but you knew that.
>>
>> >> ï¿½http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipartisan_Campaign_Reform_Act
>> >> ï¿½ "But, in December 2003, the Supreme Court upheld most of the legislation in
>> >> McConnell v. FEC."
>> >> [
>> >> President Barack Obama expressed his concern over the Supreme Court's decision
>> >> during his State of the Union speech, delivered January 27th, saying, "With all
>> >> due deference to separation of powers, last week the Supreme Court reversed a
>> >> century of law that I believe will open the floodgates for special interests ?-
>> >> including foreign corporations ?- to spend without limit in our elections. I
>> >> don't think American elections should be bankrolled by America's most powerful
>> >> interests, or worse, by foreign entities. They should be decided by the American
>> >> people. And I'd urge Democrats and Republicans to pass a bill that helps to
>> >> correct some of these problems." President Obama also called the decision, "?a
>> >> major victory for big oil, Wall Street banks, health insurance companies and the
>> >> other powerful interests that marshal their power every day in Washington to
>> >> drown out the voices of everyday Americans.?
>> >> ]
>>
>> >> ï¿½ Hence it was indeed constitutional and you had something else in mind
>> >> or are just willingly ignorant, as usual.
>>
>> Doesn't Obama want to allow illegal aliens and such to vote.
>>
>> Isn't this right up the Socialist line of WORLD GOVERNMENT?
>>
>> OoOooooooohhhhhhh ï¿½ I see Obama wants the ignorant peasants to be
>> involved but the corporations to be excluded in every way.
>
>Please provide a credible cite.

He missed the bits aboout "We the PEOPLE".
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Palin Speaks Like A Toddler
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1c6a5e833baf5d8b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 4:40 am
From: Cliff

http://www.mediaite.com/online/conclusion-sarah-palin-speaks-like-a-toddler/
"Conclusion: Sarah Palin Speaks Like A Toddler"
by Glynnis MacNicol | 3:48 pm, April 6th, 2010
[
Brave soul, linguist, and conservative political commentator John McWhorter
attempts to answer the eternal question: What is Sarah Palin talking about?

Actually, it's more like what version of the English language is Sarah Palin
using, because it's not one most of us are familiar with, as anyone who has been
required to transcribe a Palin speech is painfully aware. McWhorter, however,
sees a strange problem that goes far beyond Palin's habit of being "folksy,"
something that he finds little fault with. At one point he compares her language
skills to that of a toddler.

[
Rather, Palin is given to meandering phraseology of a kind suggesting someone
more commenting on impressions as they enter and leave her head rather than
constructing insights about them. Or at least, insights that go beyond the
bare-bones essentials of human cognition — an entity (i.e. something) and a
predicate (i.e. something about it).
[...]
This reminds me of toddlers who speak from inside their own experience in a
related way: they will come up to you and comment about something said by a
neighbor you've never met, or recount to you the plot of an episode of a TV show
they have no way of knowing you've ever heard of. Palin strings her words
together as if she were doing it for herself — meanings float by, and she
translates them into syntax in whatever way works, regardless of how other
people making public statements do it.
]

McWhorter's conclusion is especially damning…and not just to Palin:

As such, Sarah Palin can talk, basically, like a child and be lionized by a
robust number of perfectly intelligent people as an avatar of American culture.
And linguistically, let's face it: she is.
]

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Windows for Rednecks
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/c3d2446f889750cb?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Wed, Apr 7 2010 4:58 am
From: Cliff

On Tue, 6 Apr 2010 18:22:34 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian" <Egal@legal_egal.law>
wrote:

>
>
>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>news:tlplr5diml3sg96knskr0s5pjoilrjpd65@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 5 Apr 2010 23:50:38 -0500, "Chief Egalitarian"
>> <Egal@legal_egal.law>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Cliff" <Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote in message
>>>news:pv2kr59lu85a3hglu3htftkv1noodjsge9@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 05 Apr 2010 17:10:12 +0200, Monika Eggers
>>>> <monikakrug@expires-2010-03-31.arcornews.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>http://www.stupidvideos.com/pictures/Redneck_Windows/
>>>>
>>>> Palin should be on "pro-wrestling" soon.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=palin+pro-wrestling
>>>> --
>>>> Cliff
>>>
>>>trim
>>
>> What have you against wrestling?
>
>
>I'd jello wrestle her :)

And when you lost ...
--
Cliff

==============================================================================

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "rec.crafts.metalworking"
group.

To post to this group, visit http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rec.crafts.metalworking+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com

To change the way you get mail from this group, visit:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/subscribe?hl=en

To report abuse, send email explaining the problem to abuse@googlegroups.com

==============================================================================
Google Groups: http://groups.google.com/?hl=en

twitter

Wednesday, April 7, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 15 topics - digest

0 Comments:

Post a Comment

About Me

Previous Posts