twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 10 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: MIG at home garage legality
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1a6a4e50fb608d27?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 2:51 pm
From: Tim Wescott

Wes wrote:
> Ignoramus21954 <ignoramus21954@NOSPAM.21954.invalid> wrote:
>
>> Which kind of brings up a question, can one weld in weightlessness.
>
> Maybe spot welding and friction welding. I'm betting agaist MIG.
>
> Oh, since I'm assuming we are in space in some sort of vessel, what is the atmosphere we
> working with?

Maybe not MIG -- maybe just go outside, make sure everything is clean,
and do _unshielded_ metal-arc welding in the vacuum. Seems like welding
inside would crap up the atmosphere pretty quick, although if you just
had to I suppose you'd need to.

Maybe before we go to Mars NASA needs to develop a JB Weld that'll work
in a vacuum.

SMAW may be needed, and work, in a vacuum. It would be handy to add the
neato alloying elements that come from the stick coating, but I bet
you'd need special coatings to work.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:15 pm
From: Bill Janssen

Ignoramus21954 wrote:
> On 2010-04-09, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote:
>
>> None. Set up a huge noise smelly shop and there may be issues. Don't
>> observe good fire safety precautions (i.e. put a wooden welding bench up
>> against a wall without drywall) _and_ get a complaint to the local fire
>> martial, and you'll have issues.
>>
>
> If I was in a spaceship headed to Mars, I would definitely appreciate
> having a fire martial aboard. Especially if I had a welder on that
> spaceship.
>
> Which kind of brings up a question, can one weld in weightlessness.
>
> i
>
If you can weld upside-down (overhead) you can weld in weightlessness.

Bill K7NOM

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:12 pm
From: "Steve B"

"unix" <unixzip@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:db1da9ab-8990-40a4-b63a-fdbfc7065cfc@x42g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
> I'm a newbie to welding...
>
> Just wondering if I need to notify town authorities if I was to set up
> a small MIG kit in my garage to weld stainless sculptures for resale.
> What I'm afraid of is that they will deny me claiming some sort of
> residential fire hazard. Have any here had issues with your
> locallity???
>
> Thanks
> Ron

It all depends on your neighborhood. If you are close to neighbors, they
might object to the sparks and noise and smoke. Basically, you can do
anything you can get away with. But once a call has been made to zoning or
the FD, it's on file, and after that, you're subject to fines.

As for asking permission, it is a bad idea, and I am sure they would tell
you no. Some standard issues are: you cannot keep "stock in trade" at your
home; you cannot increase the traffic to the neighborhood; you need to be
cleared by the FD (which will be impossible); you need to be licensed, and
what you want to do is considered manufacturing, and a residential zone
cannot be a manufacturing zone.

"claiming some sort of residential fire hazard?" Melting metal past its
melting point is definitely a fire hazard, and dangerous even in a properly
equipped shop.

Unless you live in a rural area, or have a shop removed from the house, or
just have good neighbors, it doesn't sound like your idea is plausible. The
first time someone makes a phone call, it's all over. And SHOULD you have
some accidental fire and FD comes out and finds the cause, you can be fined
pretty severely.

Steve

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:18 pm
From: JIMMIE

On Apr 9, 5:51 pm, Tim Wescott <t...@seemywebsite.now> wrote:
> Wes wrote:
> > Ignoramus21954 <ignoramus21...@NOSPAM.21954.invalid> wrote:
>
> >> Which kind of brings up a question, can one weld in weightlessness.
>
> > Maybe spot welding and friction welding. I'm betting agaist MIG.
>
> > Oh, since I'm assuming we are in space in some sort of vessel, what is the atmosphere we
> > working with?
>
> Maybe not MIG -- maybe just go outside, make sure everything is clean,
> and do _unshielded_ metal-arc welding in the vacuum. Seems like welding
> inside would crap up the atmosphere pretty quick, although if you just
> had to I suppose you'd need to.
>
> Maybe before we go to Mars NASA needs to develop a JB Weld that'll work
> in a vacuum.
>
> SMAW may be needed, and work, in a vacuum. It would be handy to add the
> neato alloying elements that come from the stick coating, but I bet
> you'd need special coatings to work.
>
> --
> Tim Wescott
> Control system and signal processing consultingwww.wescottdesign.com

Hand held electron beam welding. I always thought it would be fun to
have a tube transmitter in space with no envelopes on the tubes.

Jimmie

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:22 pm
From: Wes

"Steve B" <deserttraveler@dishynail.net> wrote:

>As for asking permission, it is a bad idea, and I am sure they would tell
>you no.

Never ask for permission, they might get the idea that they have the power to grant or
deny it.

"It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission" is often attributed to Grace
Hopper. The lady and officer had a clue.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:23 pm
From: DT

In article <3amdnauod6q-CCLWnZ2dnUVZ_rKdnZ2d@giganews.com>,
ignoramus21954@NOSPAM.21954.invalid says...
>On 2010-04-09, Tim Wescott <tim@seemywebsite.now> wrote:
>> None. Set up a huge noise smelly shop and there may be issues.
Don't
>> observe good fire safety precautions (i.e. put a wooden welding bench
up
>> against a wall without drywall) _and_ get a complaint to the local
fire
>> martial, and you'll have issues.
>
>If I was in a spaceship headed to Mars, I would definitely appreciate
>having a fire martial aboard. Especially if I had a welder on that
>spaceship.
>
>Which kind of brings up a question, can one weld in weightlessness.

Good question, Iggy! I was the Facility Manager for NASA's Zero Gravity
Research Facility during the 1990s. We supported the Combustion Science
and Fluid Physics branches. I don't believe I ever heard any mention of
a welding experiemnt, I think you could get a grant or two out of that
idea!

There were some molten alloy experiments (not at our facility, they
took too long), but they were concerned with the solidification process,
which can produce dentrites (metal hairs within the pool). In general
alloys mix better because the heavier elements do not sink and they were
seeking super alloys because of the better distribution.

Welding in low Gs would certainly be different. There would of course be
the tendency for the pool to float away, but the cooling metal would be
driven by various forces like the arc blow, surface tension, etc instead
of gravity. It would cool slower because of the lack of convection.

--
DT

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Battery drill external battery pack
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2a3b10825de0128f?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 3:04 pm
From: spaco

In my case it's only the lack of getting "a round toit" that keeps me
from it. I tore apart a dead battery pack for my 12 volt Dewalt drill
about a year ago, with that very plan in mind. I used to use that drill
to tap maple trees and I could get about 50 taps per charge. That's
drilling a 7/16" hole about 2 inches deep.
The idea is to simply strap a garden tractor battery to my back as I
tap the trees. I shouldn't have to go back to the trail to get a fresh
battery all day.

I would use something more substantial than zip cord, though. IIRC 16
wire isn't good for much over 4 amps. Why waste ANY power?--- I'd use
12 Ga extension cord wire.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------------

Stormin Mormon wrote:
> Have you ever built a battery drill, using a dead
> cordless drill, and external battery pack? For a
> while, I was saving a 12 volt drill that was dead.
>
> I save it, becuase I figured I could put a length of
> zipcord on it, and run it to a lighter plug. Power it
> from the socket of a battery jumper pack.
>
> Most Sub-C that I've found in drills are 1600 mA
> hours, Compared to the cheap Rayovac NiMH AA
> cells, which are about 2,000. could use a 12 volt
> pack that runs AA cells (eight AA cells, Rat Shack
> used to have these) and actually have more power
> than the original pack. Plus, being able to test and
> replace individual cells as they failed.
>

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 3:21 pm
From: Ecnerwal

In article <aoWdnQ1DrIYZPiLWnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@bright.net>,
spaco <spaco@baldwin-telecom.net> wrote:

> In my case it's only the lack of getting "a round toit" that keeps me
> from it. I tore apart a dead battery pack for my 12 volt Dewalt drill
> about a year ago, with that very plan in mind. I used to use that drill
> to tap maple trees and I could get about 50 taps per charge. That's
> drilling a 7/16" hole about 2 inches deep.
> The idea is to simply strap a garden tractor battery to my back as I
> tap the trees. I shouldn't have to go back to the trail to get a fresh
> battery all day.
>
> I would use something more substantial than zip cord, though. IIRC 16
> wire isn't good for much over 4 amps. Why waste ANY power?--- I'd use
> 12 Ga extension cord wire.

Question of where you want to spend your effort on that use - I tapped
about 200 trees using a brace and bit - the old fashioned cordless
drill. I've also driven a lot of screws with them, including quite a
number when all the new-fangled drills in the area were waiting on the
charger. I'd much rather tromp around carrying & powering the brace and
bit than carry a heavy battery (or one of those gawd-awful gasoline
drills some folks just love.)

I also have a 12V drill awaiting the car-battery conversion - just don't
see using it for that job, considering.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 3:39 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

Now, that sounds like a good device. And, good battery life.

As to AC power, I know 14 gage is rated 15 amps, so 16
should be 10 amps or so rated. DC? I really don't know.

Vehicle starting batteries don't like deep discharges. If
you do 25 holes between recharges. Your battery will last a
lot longer.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"spaco" <spaco@baldwin-telecom.net> wrote in message
news:aoWdnQ1DrIYZPiLWnZ2dnUVZ_qadnZ2d@bright.net...
In my case it's only the lack of getting "a round toit"
that keeps me
from it. I tore apart a dead battery pack for my 12 volt
Dewalt drill
about a year ago, with that very plan in mind. I used to
use that drill
to tap maple trees and I could get about 50 taps per charge.
That's
drilling a 7/16" hole about 2 inches deep.
The idea is to simply strap a garden tractor battery to
my back as I
tap the trees. I shouldn't have to go back to the trail to
get a fresh
battery all day.

I would use something more substantial than zip cord,
though. IIRC 16
wire isn't good for much over 4 amps. Why waste ANY
power?--- I'd use
12 Ga extension cord wire.

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------------

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:10 pm
From: JIMMIE

On Apr 9, 5:08 pm, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You know, that would work fine, for 12 volt drills.
>
> --
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>
> "Bill Noble" <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
>
> news:hpngc1$ovv$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> I wrote an article years ago for an automotive magazine that
> said to do just
> that - take your battery drill and remove the dead battery,
> add zip cord and
> clips and use with the car battery

Ive got one like that I use camping and such. I also have a 100 amp
deep discharge battery I can use with it. I helped a neighbor build a
storage building kit last fall. He didnt believe it when I told him I
could put the whole thing together on one charge.HeHe.

Jimmie

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT How the Corporations Broke Ralph Nader and America, Too.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8c40d1fcc361d00a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 3:18 pm
From: Lewis Hartswick

Ed Huntress wrote:
> "Lewis Hartswick" <lhartswick@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:z8qdnS91-8xkeCDWnZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@earthlink.com...
>> I didn't read the whole tirade but Ralph Nadar
>> is/was an IDIOT. He lost all credibility when
>> he wrote " Unsafe at any Speed".
>> What a load of BS.
>> ...lew...
>
> Did you ever read it, Lew? Or did you read *about* it?
>
I read some of it. Couldn't stand to do the rest.
...lew...

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:38 pm
From: Wes

Lewis Hartswick <lhartswick@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> Did you ever read it, Lew? Or did you read *about* it?
>>
>I read some of it. Couldn't stand to do the rest.
> ...lew...

I read it, the latter Corvairs were safer, too late to save the brand. Compared to today,
the 60's cars are death traps for the most part.

Wes

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:52 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:cTOvn.164824$Bs1.117931@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...
> Lewis Hartswick <lhartswick@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>>> Did you ever read it, Lew? Or did you read *about* it?
>>>
>>I read some of it. Couldn't stand to do the rest.
>> ...lew...
>
>
> I read it, the latter Corvairs were safer, too late to save the brand.
> Compared to today,
> the 60's cars are death traps for the most part.
>
> Wes

The pre-'65s were the ones with the swing axles, and a frame that had
serious weaknesses in the central bay. The swing axle was just fine for
moderate driving. But, pressed hard, the car was a wild thing that took some
experience to handle. On the racetrack it absolutely needed heavy
modifications. (I spun mine at Old Bridge Speedway in NJ, even with a bunch
of modifications, because, en extremis, the rearward weight bias took over
and that was all she wrote). In '64, there was a factory-installed
transverse spring that had the same effect as a stabilizer bar -- it reduced
the tendency for the suspension to jack.

Starting in '65, the car had a better unibody and they went to a four-link
rear suspension that was functionally the same as double wishbones. At the
time, it was the most advanced suspension on any US-built car, along with
the Corvette.

But GM screwed the pooch by putting up so much resistance to Nader's
assault, particularly by trying to entrap him with a prostitute and some
other underhanded things. I think the Corvair could have weathered it all,
but trust in the company was shot to hell.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Jon Banquer invades VX Forum
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8c4c0e70a6085103?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 3:19 pm
From: Wes

pyotr filipivich <phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

> Oh, and the other day, I bought four dollars worth of paperback -
>and found a two dollar bill in one. One more reason to make sure you
>remove all your bookmarks before disposing of books.

Years ago, I was staying at a Comfort Suites when I was contracted to bring up the servers
from my old employer that had been stored so a guy from Deloitte and Touche could grab a
copy of the data on them for string analyisis. Bankruptcy stuff, I guess they were
looking for incriminating data.

I put a 5 spot in the book I was reading as a marker and when I made it back to my room, I
saw a note with thanks and a smiley face signed housekeeping. :(

I'm sure glad I didn't use a twenty.

Wes

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 3:21 pm
From: Wes

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote:

>> I *hate* buying a book I have.
>
>
> See if you can find one of the old 'Cuecat' barcode readers. There
>were hacks online to use it as a straight barcode reader.

I've been looking for an open source ISBN to title library. The bar codes seem to have
the ISBN number in the barcode iirc. It has a been a while since I looked into this so I
might be a bit off base.

Wes

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:25 pm
From: Cliff

On Tue, 06 Apr 2010 15:02:54 -0400, Cliff
<Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:

>On Sun, 04 Apr 2010 18:43:08 -0400, Cliff
><Clhuprichguesswhat@aoltmovetheperiodc.om> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 4 Apr 2010 12:20:38 -0500, "Steve Mackay" <mackay.steve@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Anne Onime" <anonymous@rip.ax.lt> wrote in message
>>>news:e578a024d210c636dc95822c1e99f63d@rip.ax.lt...
>>>> Well, it was only a matter of time.
>>>>
>>>> WordPress shut down Banquer's Blog for MULTIPLE TOS violations so he
>>>> decided to invade the VX forum.
>>>>
>>>> VX only recently made it open to anyone who registers.
>>>>
>>>> I give it a couple of weeks before Cliff shows up over there and starts
>>>> shitting all over the place.
>>>>
>>>> VX is in a world of hurt already.
>>>> They have effectively ZERO US market share and are currently looking for a
>>>> buyer.
>>>>
>>>> Now they get to deal with Babble-on-Jon's rants about what software should
>>>> be.
>>>>
>>>> Oy Vey!
>>>
>>>There's no political content in the VX Forum. Why would Cliffie the cross
>>>posting monkey want to go there?
>>
>> http://www.vx.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=802&highlight_key=y
>> "Famous for comments and pontifications on software he does not own or use"
>> "Go away Jon and don't come back."
>>
>> They had his number from the very beginning and he refused to answer their
>>very civil questions:
>> "Can you please advise the forum if you are a VX user, since when and what do
>>you use it for?"
>> "For our interest you might also include a list of other CAD/CAM software you
>>use a professionally."
>> "And could you also please explain why 'not saying bad things' about the
>>competition doesn't thrill you?"
>>
>>
>>(& got snooty about them):
>> "I've ignored all of what I feel are irrelevant personal questions you asked
>>me as I feel they have no place in this forum. It's my opinion that this forum
>>should be about VX and not about personal attacks"
>>
>> Note that HE was demanding that THEY say "bad things" !!!
>
> http://www.vx.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=7&threadid=805&highlight_key=y
> "It would be far better to have it done by a VX expert .."
> "I think it was of the guys from down under that warned about him. I think the
>best solution is to ignore him and his delusions."

How jb got there: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWcc2hCwsWM

>
> He was indeed pegged as utterly clueless & full of BS right off.
>
> LOL
--
Cliff

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Mars Direct, or getting there is half the fun.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f278042885f73a5b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 3:20 pm
From: "Buerste"

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terrell@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:4BBE7A4B.F25F18C3@earthlink.net...
<snip>
>> > > Exactly! Liberals have "Limited Pie Perception".
>> >
>> > They should just shut their 'Pie Holes'...
>>
>> They are "pie-challenged."
>
>
> As well as PI challenged...
>

That's why liberuls are irrational!

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 3:26 pm
From: wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:51:52 -0700, "Bill McKee"
<bmckeespamnot@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>
><wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net> wrote in message
>news:dohur5lpdr7pvr10u9j1qiqj6vvcc6rvgh@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 8 Apr 2010 22:23:58 -0700, "Bill McKee"
>> <bmckeespamnot@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>><wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net> wrote in message
>>>news:bpsrr5daof81ou795980ln6kpqdm2peelt@4ax.com...
>>>> On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 21:21:10 -0700, "Bill McKee"
>>>> <bmckeespamnot@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>><wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net> wrote in message
>>>>>news:inhpr5dkio92q01g6nvohuisjftva6fe1i@4ax.com...
>>>>>> On 07 Apr 2010 16:41:22 GMT, steamer <steamer@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Going to Mars is easier than dealing with poverty.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things,
>>>>>> not because they are easy, but because they are hard"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If dealing with poverty is too hard, then how about a cap on school
>>>>>> class size? Or a guarantee that even the poorest will have good access
>>>>>> to broadband? Both of those would be far more bang for the buck than
>>>>>> Mars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also if Earth
>>>>>>>gets pasted with a big enough rock poverty won't be an issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now you're talkin'. Whoda' thunk that buying astronomically-priced
>>>>>> <chuckle> bagels was an investment in asteroid avoidance?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Priorities.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Exactly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wayne
>>>>>
>>>>>How about requiring teachers to be able to teach? I am the last of the
>>>>>50's
>>>>>generation. Graduated HS in 1961. We had large classes, learned or
>>>>>were
>>>>>held back. Papers were graded, and we felt bad if we got a bad grade.
>>>>>So
>>>>>we studied harder or took easier classes.
>>>>
>>>> OK so far.
>>>>
>>>>> We put man on the moon, etc.
>>>>
>>>> Are you saying that 50's teaching put a man on the moon? Because I
>>>> always thought it had more to do with spending upwards of 1% of GDP.
>>>>
>>>>>Class size is strawman in the school argument.
>>>>
>>>> Nonsense. I already posted a link to disprove that notion.
>>>>
>>>>> Holding back kids and
>>>>>holding parents and teachers accountable is what is required. Now there
>>>>>are
>>>>>no shop classes and some places have a 75% dropout rate for males.
>>>>
>>>> Those things are good, but they won't make the difference by
>>>> themselves. School expenses are way up (how many metal detectors,
>>>> police, slip and falls, etc. did your school pay for?), their budgets
>>>> are squeezed well past the long-term damage threshold, and too many
>>>> voters believe that any petty complaint they can think of is a good
>>>> reason to let schools deteriorate further. Case in point.
>>>> http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=37131&TM=37724.33
>>>>
>>>> Wayne
>>>
>>>You are proof that they graduate morons these days.
>>
>> My last school day was in 1970. Although I did visit a bit since then
>> in search of part-time employees.
>>
>>> Your link proves
>>>nothing as to class size. Is an opinion.
>>
>> LOL Yeah, what a waste doing studies and analysis when they could
>> have simply posted the question to Usenet to get a declaration from a
>> 60's grad.
>>
>>> How about they require teachers
>>>to be able to teach?
>>
>> What *are* those teachers doing these days? Please enlighten us.
>>
>>> And yes, my generation of school graduates put man on
>>>the moon. Was not the money. We waste more money than that on Congress
>>>theses days. And we get no bang for the buck. Did not matter how much
>>>money you threw at the problem of space travel, required people with
>>>brains
>>>and education to develop the equipment and calculate the trajectories.
>>
>> Why not follow your argument to its logical <chuckle> conclusion? If
>> only morons have graduated since your time, and money isn't the issue
>> with space travel, then just get a few of your fellow 60's braniacs
>> together to develop some equipment and trajectories, and then head
>> out. Don't forget to install a trunk for carrying back all the
>> valuable resources and bridge-eliminating secrets.
>>
>> Wayne
>
>Teachers these days, pass on all students. No holding back. No room in the
>classroom, suits by the parents, and the poor student would get hurt
>psychologically

Your post is incoherent and unresponsive. Are you sure that's the best
approach considering that you're claiming to have a superior
education? Have you considered that standards might not have dropped
as much as you imagined? Do you know the penalty for PWI?

Anyway, let's see if your teachers lurned you at least one of the Rs.
If Billy eats a half-trillion apples over a period of ten years, and
has 140 million friends helping him pick apples, then how many apples
does each friend have to pick each month?

Wayne

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Smithy Change Gears
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f9ccda14160a679a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 3:55 pm
From: Tim Wescott

http://www.metalworking.com/dropbox/smithy-change-gears.pdf

I included the Scilab file that generates the LaTeX to make the pdf, but
either that fell into the bit bucket or it isn't up yet.

It should have fancy headers and footers, that puff off my business --
but it doesn't, I just wrote it for me then thought to post it.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Unpleasant certain excpected disappointment with Bridgeport
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/74a799c6c5c299f2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:19 pm
From: "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"

Ignoramus21954 <ignoramus21954@NOSPAM.21954.invalid> fired this volley in
news:1IednWIuhNG0oiLWnZ2dnUVZ_r2dnZ2d@giganews.com:

> This is a disappointment, and, in a way, I am not surprised at all.
>

otoh... When I bought my R2E4 machine, I called them for some assistance in
moving it. I was directed _directly_ to the cell-phone number of an old
factory hand who was responsible for moving the machines, and he gave me
the full run-down as to where, how, and WHY to sling the machine the way I
should.

My gut is that they love all their old iron, and want to help all they can.

LLoyd

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Mil pay vs Social Security
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/2e5a9ed882cd17b4?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:21 pm
From: Jim Chandler

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 13:46:26 -0700, "Bill McKee"
<bmckeespamnot@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

>
>"Jim Chandler" <n427c@gte.net> wrote in message
>news:c8jur59i26loennm8kgaheu793ts4liarq@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 08 Apr 2010 22:05:40 -0500, Comrade technomaNge
>> <piracy@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Jim Chandler wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes. I retired in 1988 and have been getting AF retirement since then
>>>> and I started SS in 2006 when I turned 62 (I wasn't waiting for 66
>>>> (this year) to start). I'd rather get a smaller amount for a longer
>>>> period of time than a larger payment for a shorter period. I
>>>> contributed to SS foe years during my civilian employments. Somebody
>>>> told you wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks for the info, Jim.
>>>
>>>Before I take any action on this, I'll wait for a couple of more
>>>data points.
>>>
>>>
>>>Comrade technomaNge
>>
>>
>> if you ever contributed to SS during civilian employment, you are
>> entitled to draw SS. How much will depend on your pay during that
>> time and your age when you start drawing it. Check with your nearest
>> SS office and they can tell you exactly how much you are entitled to.
>>
>> Jim
>
>This is true, but there can be a couple gotchas. Frend worked for the
>railroad for a few years. So he is also realroad retirement act. His money
>received never changes. The RR retirement seems to be a locked amount and
>when ever there is a raise in Social Security, the RR money decreases the
>same amount.
>

Railroad retirement is a whole different animal unto itself. They have
some strange goings-on with that stuff.

Jim

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A new "constitutional right"
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8e77e80070fe5b42?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:24 pm
From: Hawke

>>>> Bullshit. Simply bring up the bill and use "find". I am certain you
>>>> remember some of the words used. ;)
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not only that by President Obama apparently thinks that jail time is in
>>> the bill since he refuses to rule it out.
>>>
>>> Or is Hawke trying to say the President doesn't know what he signed...
>>>
>>
>> Wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if that was true
>> I'm willing to bet that a lot of Congress-critters didn't know what they
>> were voting for
>
> As time goes on and the unintended (or intended from the start) features
> of the bill come to light I believe the public will become even more
> enraged..
>
> The bill is page after page of legal double talk...

Spoken by a man who has not read a single word of the actual bill,
right? You're commenting negatively on the bill but you have not really
read any of it have you? Oh, and by the way, if you look up the bill
what you find is the actual bill. There is no "find" function attached
to it. Which makes me even more sure you've never even looked at the
bill. But isn't that typical of you right wingers. You're full of
negative comments about the bill but none of you have read any of it.
And that should disqualify you from any comments because you just repeat
what you hear on Fox News.

Hawke

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:38 pm
From: Hawke

>> I doubt if Obama knows everything in that bill. It is over 2,000 pages
>> long. Could anyone know everything that is in it? I doubt it so I doubt
>> he knows it all either. But what I have said once and I'll say it
> again.
>> I saw on the Ed Show where they were discussing the part about what
>> happens if you don't pay the fine for not buying insurance and in the
>> bill it specifically said there would not be any other penalty for not
>> paying the fine. No jail time or no further penalty. Since then I have
>> looked at the actual bill and tried to find that provision. I couldn't
>> find it.
>
> Because it isn't there.

And you know this how? I saw the part of the bill on the Ed Show where
the penalty part for not paying the fine was discussed. So I know it's
in there. But how do you know it's not? Just guessing, right?

> They also had the IRS Commissioner on TV saying that it would be a
> penalty added to your income tax. Are you saying that we don't have to
> pay our income tax?

Only what the IRS says you owe. Just like always.

> The most likely person not to buy healthcare is also in the 40% that
> doesn't pay any tax. Ergo, the only hold they would have would be to
> hold up his/her return. However, many don't even get that.

That is what I heard. That they would keep you from getting your tax
return if you didn't pay your fine. But the people who didn't earn
enough money to get a tax return are the same people who are going to
qualify for a subsidy for buying insurance. If you are one of them you
obviously won't be one of the people who would be fined for not buying
insurance. So only people who can afford to buy insurance and refuse to
do so would be fined and they would probably get their income tax return
held up until they buy insurance. But I'd like to read the part of the
actual bill that deals with this question. Finding that isn't easy
though. You ought to see the table of contents. It goes on for pages and
pages. If you don't know what heading you're looking for good luck
finding any particular part.

Hawke

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:52 pm
From: Hawke

>>> The same people who are the ones who willingly do most things
>>> wouldn't have to be drafted as they would already be doing their
>>> part. It's the one's hiding under their bed that you have to go&
>>> find.
>>
>>
>> That may be, but if the only people that you could have in your army
>> are the ones who would join voluntarily, you wouldn't have a very big
>> army. And if they could leave when they wanted to you would have a
>> REALLY small army once the shooting started. Which is why if you want
>> to have a big war you have to conscript people.
>
> We already have a volunteer army, Hawke. Have had since 1973. You seem
> to confuse a voluntary enlistment with a simple day to day commitment.
> That isn't how it works.

You may not know it from the amount of money we spend on the military
but we do have a very small army. If you look at how many divisions we
have ready to fight it's small in comparison to the population. Not only
that, we've had to relax all kinds of standards and had to increase all
kinds of incentives to get enough people to join. Then you look at the
people signing up and they are not the best and the brightest despite
what you hear the military say. They are predominately southern and they
are not well educated. So we are taking from the lower tier of society
and we can barely get enough people to join no matter how much you give
them. Out of 300 million people we can barely come up with half a million.

If you consider what our actual military needs are we don't have nearly
enough people in the military to do what we are doing, which proves my
point. We have more private contractors, that is, mercenaries, in Iran
and Afghanistan than we have actual troops. If you were to consider them
part of the military, and they are, we wouldn't have enough men to run
our wars. That proves conclusively that our voluntary army doesn't
attract enough volunteers to do what we want them to do so we have to
suppliment them with "contractors". If we had enough volunteers we would
have no need for them, right?

Hawke

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Leaking 1/2" union -- face on a lathe?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/4779cf30213e3e88?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 5:00 pm
From: "dcaster@krl.org"

On Apr 9, 2:53 pm, "Existential Angst" <UNfit...@UNoptonline.net>
wrote:
> Awl --
>
> It's an old-style union (flat mating faces), immediately on my compressor,
> with the controls and fittings on that.
>
> Should be a quick job, if it will work... will save me a trip to the store.
> Plus it would be but another DIY thrill.... :)
>--
> EA

I would think it would work. What is the worst that can happen? Does
not work and you have to get another union.

But it might be easier to use some valve grinding compound and lap the
joint smooth.

Dan

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Friday, April 9, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 10 topics - digest

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