twitter: comp.lang.c - 24 new messages in 9 topics

comp.lang.c
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c?hl=en

comp.lang.c@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

* Question about void - 6 messages, 5 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/7cda9a8237a38531?hl=en
* Personal attacks by moderators in a moderated group are unprofessional - 5
messages, 3 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/fcaffc6b8db42751?hl=en
* Generic linked list with internal storage? - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/d36ff63bef634bcc?hl=en
* In the matter of Herb Schildt: wikipedia entry must be fixed - 2 messages, 2
authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/36dd147aaf94f18a?hl=en
* C the complete nonsense - 6 messages, 2 authors
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/fee08dfa5e4cbaaa?hl=en
* ┱★┱ Hot Sale Various Brand Accessories-Bracelet,Earrings,Necklace,Rings..-
www.ecyoyo.com - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/6e8daee4614b3f82?hl=en
* Line drawing with Bresenham more than one pixel thick - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/a26c26d92f082ac7?hl=en
* lvalues and rvalues - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/0bcad112a3ad97f0?hl=en
* seebs/schildt - 1 messages, 1 author
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/0c84debf9a4f144b?hl=en

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Question about void
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/7cda9a8237a38531?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 3:08 pm
From: Seebs

On 2010-04-09, Richard Bos <raltbos@xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Because it's not referred to in Schildt, which is the only valid topic
> of this newsgroup.

Between this and a couple of other comments:

I'm done with the Schildt crap. People who have comments about, or
objections to, the current edition of C:TCN are welcome to write to
me. I'm otherwise done; I see no point in continuing to discuss it.
There is no genuine doubt about the material facts, and there's nothing
really material to discussion of C that I see there anymore.

The books aren't, functionally, about C. The only remotely interesting
question was whether the 4th edition had addressed these flaws; it hadn't.
We're done. On to more interesting topics.

I'll see if I can't think of something fun to talk about.

-s
--
Copyright 2010, all wrongs reversed. Peter Seebach / usenet-nospam@seebs.net
http://www.seebs.net/log/ <-- lawsuits, religion, and funny pictures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Game_(Scientology) <-- get educated!

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 3:24 pm
From: Ben Pfaff

Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> writes:

> I'm done with the Schildt crap. People who have comments about, or
> objections to, the current edition of C:TCN are welcome to write to
> me. I'm otherwise done; I see no point in continuing to discuss it.

Thank you!
--
Ben Pfaff
http://benpfaff.org

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 3:30 pm
From: Kai-Uwe Bux

Kai-Uwe Bux wrote:

> Ian Collins wrote:
>
>> On 04/10/10 08:08 AM, sandeep wrote:
>>> hello friends
>>>
>>> we know the following code is a syntax error in C/C++
>>>
>>> void x; // gives an error
>>>
>>> but my question is WHY we cannot have a void variable?
>>
>> What would you store in it?
>
> Nothing.
[C++ stuff]

Sorry for polluting comp.lang.c. The cross-posting of the OP caught me off-
guard. My post was intended for comp.lang.c++.

Best

Kai-Uwe Bux

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:06 pm
From: Sousuke

On Apr 9, 3:33 pm, sandeep <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:
> yes but then i can't dereference it to get the actual value without an
> explicit cast, but if i don't know the type how can i cast it right!

In class hierarchies where the ultimate superclass is typically named
Object, you can do with Object* what you're trying to do with void* by
using dynamic_cast. For example:

class A
{
public:
virtual ~A() {}
};

class B : public A {};

int main()
{
A* p1 = new B;
// dynamic_cast'ing to void* yields a pointer to an instance of
the
// class that was originally instantiated
void* p2 = dynamic_cast<void*>(p1);
// p2 now points to the B that was originally instantiated (which
with
// most compilers will be at the same address as the embedded A)
}

But I don't really see the usefulness of dynamic_cast'ing to void*,
since you can't do much with with a varialbe of type void* anyway...

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:21 pm
From: Seebs

On 2010-04-09, Sousuke <s0suk3@gmail.com> wrote:
> But I don't really see the usefulness of dynamic_cast'ing to void*,
> since you can't do much with with a varialbe of type void* anyway...

I think the OP probably meant this to be a C question, given the crosspost
to clc, and the fact that, as you point out, (void *) is pretty much useless
in C++.

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 5:00 pm
From: ram@zedat.fu-berlin.de (Stefan Ram)

sandeep <nospam@nospam.com> writes:
>WHY we cannot have a void variable?

In C, »void« is an incomplete type and, therefore, lacks
information needed to determine the size of x.

I do not recommend crossposting such a question to both
comp.lang.c and comp.lang.c++: Because they are separate
languages, this should be discussed separately. Therefore,
I did not answer for C++, but only for C above.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Personal attacks by moderators in a moderated group are unprofessional
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/fcaffc6b8db42751?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 3:25 pm
From: Keith Thompson

rigs <rigorist@gmail.com> writes:
> On Apr 9, 3:13 pm, spinoza1111 <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[84 lines deleted]
>
> Are you drunk?

Why did you feel the need to quote spinoza1111's entire article?
Anyone who wants to read it can do so; those of us who have killfiled
him did so for a reason. Why help him spread his nonsense?

--
Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) kst-u@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
Nokia
"We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
-- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 5:48 pm
From: rigs

On Apr 9, 5:25 pm, Keith Thompson <ks...@mib.org> wrote:
> rigs <rigor...@gmail.com> writes:
> > On Apr 9, 3:13 pm, spinoza1111 <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> [84 lines deleted]
>
> > Are you drunk?
>
> Why did you feel the need to quote spinoza1111's entire article?
> Anyone who wants to read it can do so; those of us who have killfiled
> him did so for a reason. Why help him spread his nonsense?
>
> --
> Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks...@mib.org <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
> Nokia
> "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
> -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"

I apologize. I plead laziness and beg for mercy.

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 5:51 pm
From: Rob Kendrick

On Fri, 9 Apr 2010 17:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
rigs <rigorist@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Why did you feel the need to quote spinoza1111's entire article?

<snip>

> > --
> > Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) ks...@mib.org
> > <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst> Nokia
> > "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do
> > this." -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
>
> I apologize. I plead laziness and beg for mercy.

You might want to also learn to trim signatures to avoid such wrath :)

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 5:55 pm
From: rigs

On Apr 9, 7:51 pm, Rob Kendrick <n...@rjek.com> wrote:

> You might want to also learn to trim signatures to avoid such wrath :)
>

I'm educable (there's a good spinny word). I learned about sigs and
struct padding today.

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 6:36 pm
From: Keith Thompson

rigs <rigorist@gmail.com> writes:
> On Apr 9, 5:25 pm, Keith Thompson <ks...@mib.org> wrote:
>> rigs <rigor...@gmail.com> writes:
>> > On Apr 9, 3:13 pm, spinoza1111 <spinoza1...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> [84 lines deleted]
>>
>> > Are you drunk?
>>
>> Why did you feel the need to quote spinoza1111's entire article?
>> Anyone who wants to read it can do so; those of us who have killfiled
>> him did so for a reason. Why help him spread his nonsense?
[...]
>
> I apologize. I plead laziness and beg for mercy.

Apology gladly accepted.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Generic linked list with internal storage?
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/d36ff63bef634bcc?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 3:34 pm
From: Jef Driesen

On 09/04/10 21:59, Eric Sosman wrote:
> Taking the bait like a true DHCP: I think a generic linked
> list package is about as useful as a generic array package.
> The linked list is so simple a beast that the code to handle it
> isn't complex or difficult enough to bother hiding away behind a
> lot of genericized interfaces. Just stick a `struct node *next'
> element in the data item of your choice and use open code.
>
> If you've got a lot of linked lists of a lot of disparate
> struct types, I could see putting a `struct linkstuff' at the
> start of each "payload" struct and using functions that dealt
> in `struct linkstuff' objects, casting as needed. This could
> be handy with the more exotic flavors of linked list, like lists
> built with self-relative offsets instead of pointers. But for
> a plain vanilla linked list ... Why bother?

Writing a linked list isn't very complex, but I prefer to spend my time
on the main program I'm writing, rather than having to rewrite the low
level data structures every time I need one. It's just more practical to
have a toolbox with well tested code that can be reused every time you
need it. Performance might be a little worse compared to a custom made
data structure, but if that's a problem you can always switch to a
better implementation.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: In the matter of Herb Schildt: wikipedia entry must be fixed
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/36dd147aaf94f18a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 4:40 pm
From: jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring)

Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> wrote:
> On 2010-04-09, William Hughes <wpihughes@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > Yeah, my reading was

> > "I'm going to contact Jimmy Wales and furthermore
> > I have the e-mail address he uses to comment on blogs!"

> Oh-hoh!

> That would indeed make more sense. Marginally.

> That said, if in fact Jimmy Wales has commented on Nilges' blog, I think we
> can safely assume that he is going to refer any missives from Nilges to the
> department of People Who Laugh At Kooks.

If you have a look at

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Talk:US_History/Secession#Comments_from_Talk:US_History.2FContents.2FSecession

one starts to wonder even more what he's going to write to "Jimbo"
Wales this time - might be fun being able to watch;) (Sorry if this
has already been cited elsethread, I only just stumbled upon it now.)

Best regards, Jens
--
\ Jens Thoms Toerring ___ jt@toerring.de
\__________________________ http://toerring.de

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 6:39 pm
From: cri@tiac.net (Richard Harter)

On 9 Apr 2010 23:40:05 GMT, jt@toerring.de (Jens Thoms Toerring)
wrote:

>Seebs <usenet-nospam@seebs.net> wrote:
>> On 2010-04-09, William Hughes <wpihughes@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > Yeah, my reading was
>
>> > "I'm going to contact Jimmy Wales and furthermore
>> > I have the e-mail address he uses to comment on blogs!"
>
>> Oh-hoh!
>
>> That would indeed make more sense. Marginally.
>
>> That said, if in fact Jimmy Wales has commented on Nilges' blog, I think we
>> can safely assume that he is going to refer any missives from Nilges to the
>> department of People Who Laugh At Kooks.
>
>If you have a look at
>
>http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Talk:US_History/Secession#Comments_from_Talk:US_History.2FContents.2FSecession
>
>one starts to wonder even more what he's going to write to "Jimbo"
>Wales this time - might be fun being able to watch;) (Sorry if this
>has already been cited elsethread, I only just stumbled upon it now.)

How utterly charming. He Who Barks At The Moon drools.

Richard Harter, cri@tiac.net
http://home.tiac.net/~cri, http://www.varinoma.com
It's not much to ask of the universe that it be fair;
it's not much to ask but it just doesn't happen.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: C the complete nonsense
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/fee08dfa5e4cbaaa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 5:02 pm
From: J de Boyne Pollard

> > For what it's worth, I think that I partly understand why that error
> > is there, if we accept the notion that this was really a book about
> > DOS (and Windows) C implementations.
>
> besides your, quite reasonable, explanation another possibility is
> that he'd had dealings with "clairvoyant" i/o systems such as Pascal's
> (the language). In Pascal you check the flag for EOF *before* you read
> a character.
>
> > There is a character, whose value is 26, that a lot of the
> > libraries for DOS implementations of the C language treated
> > as if it were EOF. (It isn't EOF, of course, and never was
> > any sort of end-of-file marker to the underlying operating
> > system itself.
>
> I thought by convention DOS textfiles were terminated with ^Z?

As I said:

> > I have a Frequently Given Answer on this.)

I have a Frequently Given Answer on this, a hyperlink to
which I have sent to you. The convention was entirely
an artifact of the C libraries. The actual operating
system never required any such thing, and does not
treat character 26 specially in this regard.

> > It is possible, with those C libraries, to have
> > an actual character in the stream that comes
> > through fgetc(), say, as EOF.
>
> I'd expect stdio to strip it

The C libraries look for the character, and if they see it,
they set the same flag on a C stream that they set if they
encounter a zero byte read. See the Frequently Given
Answer, which even shows you the source code of some C
libraries that do this.

== 2 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 5:10 pm
From: J de Boyne Pollard

> My understanding of how stdio normally works on DOS (which could
> be mistaken) is this:

You can be more sure of your understanding. (-: I've sent a
hyperlink to the Frequently Given Answer to you, too. It
shows the actual source of some of the C libraries for DOS
implementations. Have a read.

== 3 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 5:17 pm
From: Keith Thompson

J de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard@Tesco.NET> writes:
>> My understanding of how stdio normally works on DOS (which could
>> be mistaken) is this:

I wrote the above.

> You can be more sure of your understanding. (-: I've sent a
> hyperlink to the Frequently Given Answer to you, too. It
> shows the actual source of some of the C libraries for DOS
> implementations. Have a read.

Two requests.

First, please don't delete attribution lines. They make it easier
to follow the discussion, and it's rude to quote other people's
words without acknowledgement.

Second, is there some reason you sent your hyperlink to me (I
haven't seen it) without posting it to the group?

== 4 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 5:30 pm
From: J de Boyne Pollard

> Possibly Jonathan playing around with headers.

Time for you to read some Usenet FAQs. Moving a discussion of MS-DOS
programming to the newsgroup for MS-DOS programming is hardly "playing
around". Don't unthinkingly follow the bad example of Rod Pemberton's
cluelessness, here. Put the thinking cap on and think!

== 5 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 6:16 pm
From: J de Boyne Pollard

> Second, is there some reason you sent your hyperlink to me (I
> haven't seen it) without posting it to the group?

Yes, and I have a Frequently Given Answer on that, too,
which you can find by following the "Up" link to the index
on the FGA already sent to you and going to the
Mail and News section. Briefly: Long experience
shows that passing along hyperlinks via methods other
than hypertext doesn't work. If you've been through as
many "I copied that URL but it didn't work." discussions
as I have over the years, you would reach the same
conclusion. The RFC 1738 appendix was a good idea,
but it doesn't actually work in practice.

Looking at my server logs, it transpires that the reason
that you haven't received the hyperlink is that the
mailbox on your WWW page doesn't work. The
cts.com. SMTP Relay server at 207.155.249.237
says this about your mailbox:

Recipient address rejected: No such user [13RVG9GHT600]

You might want to ask your postmaster why you've
become an un-person at cts.com, and what the
code means. Either that, or you might want to
fix your WWW page. (-:

I've jumped through the tedious Google Groups hoops
that I was avoiding before, and sent a copy to your
other mailbox. You could of course just put
"character 26 end-of-file DOS" into
Google Web. (-:

== 6 of 6 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 6:36 pm
From: Keith Thompson

J de Boyne Pollard <J.deBoynePollard@Tesco.NET> writes:
>> Second, is there some reason you sent your hyperlink to me (I
>> haven't seen it) without posting it to the group?
>
> Yes, and I have a Frequently Given Answer on that, too,
> which you can find by following the "Up" link to the index
> on the FGA already sent to you and going to the
> Mail and News section. Briefly: Long experience
> shows that passing along hyperlinks via methods other
> than hypertext doesn't work. If you've been through as
> many "I copied that URL but it didn't work." discussions
> as I have over the years, you would reach the same
> conclusion. The RFC 1738 appendix was a good idea,
> but it doesn't actually work in practice.

Here's the URL you sent me, in case anyone else wants to see it:

<http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/dos-character-26-is-not-special.html>

or if line wrapping causes any problems:

<http://preview.tinyurl.com/y8chyyf>

(I have no idea why there's a "." after the ".com", but it seems to
work anyway. Feel free to post a treatise on the use of '.' in domain
names somewhere else.)

> Looking at my server logs, it transpires that the reason
> that you haven't received the hyperlink is that the
> mailbox on your WWW page doesn't work.
[...]

No, it doesn't. That web page hasn't been updated in a long time, and
the address is obsolete. The address that appears in the "From:"
header of every article I post is valid; I'm not sure why you didn't
try that first. I'll update the web page just as soon as I get around
to it.

This is cross-posted to comp.lang.c and comp.os.msdos.programmer. As
far as comp.lang.c is concerned, the behavior of binary and text files
on a given system is determined by the C implementation. As far as
MS-DOS is concerned, I don't have enough experience to comment
further.

One more thing. I asked you before, in text that you didn't bother to
quote, to leave attribution lines in place. Would you care to explain
why you don't do so?

I specifically do not give permission to quote anything I write on
Usenet without proper attribution.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: ┱★┱ Hot Sale Various Brand Accessories-Bracelet,Earrings,Necklace,Rings.
.-www.ecyoyo.com
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/6e8daee4614b3f82?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 6:01 pm
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==============================================================================
TOPIC: Line drawing with Bresenham more than one pixel thick
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/a26c26d92f082ac7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 6:08 pm
From: "christian.bau"

On Apr 8, 9:35 am, Gazza <garyw...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am using the Bresenham algorithm to draw single pixel lines with no
> problems. However I would like to draw some lines which are more than
> one pixel thick. Is there a modification to this algorithm that I can
> use or can anyone point me to an algorithm or resource that I can use
> to investigate / achieve this?

Sure. But I think you would first have to define what you actually
want to draw. If the line is say ten pixel thick, do you want to draw
a rectangle rotated into the right position, or a parallelogram?

==============================================================================
TOPIC: lvalues and rvalues
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/0bcad112a3ad97f0?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 6:24 pm
From: Joe Wright

On 4/9/2010 01:00, Keith Thompson wrote:
> Uno<merrilljensen@q.com> writes:
>> Keith Thompson wrote:
>>> You very nearly *can* tell whether an expression is an lvalue or
>>> not just by looking at it.
>>
>> Is there an extra negative in this sentence?
>
> No, no, of course not.
>
> Rephrasing:
>
> You very nearly *can* tell
> whether or not an expression is an lvalue
> just by looking at it.
>
I don't understand the 'very nearly' qualifier. Can we identify an
expression which designates an object by looking at it? How else?

--
Joe Wright
"If you rob Peter to pay Paul you can depend on the support of Paul."

==============================================================================
TOPIC: seebs/schildt
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.c/t/0c84debf9a4f144b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Fri, Apr 9 2010 7:51 pm
From:

schildt: rich off of book publishing royalties. fucks super models on a
private jet.
seebs: poor. has never touched a woman.

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Friday, April 9, 2010

comp.lang.c - 24 new messages in 9 topics - digest

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