twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 24 new messages in 13 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
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Today's topics:

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Electric Motor Phase Correction Question
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/09ececa261b3605b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 7:51 pm
From: "Martin H. Eastburn"

Swap two pair to keep the same direction and move the 'wild' third
wire to another winding. It might be that you need to have a smaller
three phase motor to balance the rotary and then switch in the big one.
Rotaries generate the third and the small starter motor might be just
what you need - the mag field in it will supply some surge energy needed.
It will also load the wild one and have it better under control when
the contactor is snapped on.

I run a rotary when I use my grinders. I have it running a few minutes
before I kick in the grinder. That might help.
Martin

Bob wrote:
> I have a 7.5 HP TEFC Motor on a hot high pressure washer. My 3 phase
> power is generated from a rotary converter. This motor is not happy
> with my home made power and trips the heaters. Normal load is about 9
> Amps under load but the one leg pulls 13-14A and trips the heaters.
> The contactor is a small GE unit with integral heaters and I have them
> set on max which is 14A IIRC.
>
> The motor checks out just fine at the local motor shop. Coil
> resistances are all equal. There are no excessive mechanical loads on
> the motor. I have narrowed it to the current overload on one leg
> only.
>
> I'll test with an added load on the RPC to see if that helps, but in
> the mean time; can I use a capacitor to adjust the current draw on
> that leg down? If so what MF values? I think that the caps in my
> surplus are all 600V rated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Bob.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT: Question about tunnel digging...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/1a0f3f28abe4575a?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 8:00 pm
From: "Martin H. Eastburn"

Shoot - I have some of my books that are that old -
And both I just looked at are white. One is high quality paper - with 1/4"
squares and numbers in each page corner and two signing places at the bottom.
e.g. me and another engineer that Understood what the page about.

I have some of my Dads from the 30's and 40's and 60's.
They are good. The real issue is a patent level book should be of high
quality paper since it is first proof...

Martin

Artemus wrote:
> "Bill Noble" <nobody@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
> news:hqd740$ho3$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Artemus" <bogus@invalid.org> wrote in message
>> news:hqd665$erk$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>>> "rangerssuck" <rangerssuck@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:cfc59af5-b627-42b5-a2e3-4d86a54f78b7@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Mar 8, 7:43 pm, rangerssuck <rangerss...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A few years back, when I was contracting for AT&T, I rescued from
>>>> aVerizondumpster
>>> an engineering notebook with all sorts of
>>>> correspondence about building the trans-Atlantic telephonecable. I
>>>> remember thinking that it's a miracle that they got this done without
>>>> the internet, and then I realized that they did it without even a
>>>> telephone - which they were working to connect.
>>> OK, I got the book out of storage, and took a picture of a more-or-
>>> less randomly selected page. If anyone wants to see more, I'll see
>>> what I can do about (maybe) scanning the whole thing.
>>>
>>> http://i1029.photobucket.com/albums/y358/RangersSuck11/SamplePage.jpg
>>>
>>> Note that all of this was dated 1929.
>>>
>>> **********
>>>
>>> An engineering notebook with typewritten page(s) on unyellowed paper
>>> from 80 years ago?
>>> I'm skeptical.
>>> Art
>> 1. typewriters existed in 1929, I have a collection of them going much
>> farther back than that
>> 2. paper yellows if it has high acid, and is exposed to light - I have books
>> from 1800 where the pages are not yellowed at all, and I have a manuscript
>> from about 1150 which also shows no yellowing
>>
>> so, you can be skeptical, but it looks consistent to me.
>>
> My skepticism is regarding whether the OP has an engineering notebook.
> Not whether the contents are authentic or not.
> 1. Engineering notebooks typically have bound pages which are sequentially
> numbered. This is more for legal requirements (ie patents) than for any engineering
> need. Getting these pages into a typewriter would be extremely difficult and
> highly unlikely IMO.
> 2. Engineering notebooks aren't (and probably weren't in 1929) made of
> archival quality (low acid) paper. I have seen old notebooks from the '70's
> that haven't seen the light of day for 30+ years and even they are slightly
> yellowed.
> Art
>
>

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT - I think Gunner should run for office on the Teabagger Ticket
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/98af221afb72e333?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 8:04 pm
From: Klaus Shadenfreude

[Default] On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 19:28:22 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
<too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns:

>On Apr 17, 1:21�pm, Klaus Shadenfreude <klausshadenfre...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>> [Default] On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 09:41:27 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns:
>>
>> >On Apr 17, 7:24�am, Klaus Shadenfreude <klausshadenfre...@yahoo.com>
>> >wrote:
>> >> [Default] On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 20:49:02 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
>> >> <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in talk.politics.guns:
>>
>> >> >So Gunner...what the heck is the hold up.
>>
>> >> What's holding you up from visiting Sunnyside Terrace? Besides your
>> >> lack of balls, that is.
>>
>> >Hey Gunner.
>>
>> We were talking about you and your inability to carry out your
>> threats.
>
>As Gunner's

We were talking about you and your inability to carry out your
threats.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Republicans stand with Wall Street
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/785f20c50aa6ebb2?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 8:05 pm
From: F. George McDuffee

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:11:05 -0500, F. George McDuffee
<gmcduffee@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
<snip>
>Rather the entire system/structure of government is becoming
>increasingly dysfunctional, which is not surprising, given the
>extraordinarily intensive, extensive and rapid changes in the
>domestic U.S. economy [globalization/deindustrialization] and
>U.S. society/culture with minimal changes in the form, structure
>and operation of government at all levels.
>
>What was designed/developed for the governance of rural and small
>town population has apparently reached it's limits of its
>evolution or adaptability with the rise of a multi-cultural,
>tetra-urban, polyglot, trans-national majority population.
>
>The regulatory agencies are exhibiting the same inconsistent
>behavior.
<snip>
==========
And another zinger....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304506904575180441067747062.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_sections_news
http://topnews.us/content/217179-ots-termed-watchdog-no-bite-senator-washington-mutual-case
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/17/business/17crisis.html?src=busln
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/key-senator-ots-created-wamu-mortgage-time-bomb-2010-04-16?reflink=MW_news_stmp
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303695604575181754106834516.html?mod=rss_Today%27s_Most_Popular

Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Another state passes Constitutional Carry!
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/094f3d0e875d68d9?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:09 pm
From: Don Foreman

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 10:54:51 -0700, "Bill Noble"
<nobody@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>
>
>"Larry Caldwell" <ask.me@followup.news> wrote in message
>news:MPG.2633529dcb635e78989744@nntp.aioe.org...
>> In article <l6eis51i5mgka8b5hlu0rbc3m28oan0c1a@4ax.com>,
>> gunnerasch@gmail.com (Gunner Asch) says...
>>
>>> YOU did it! Today, April 16, 2010, Governor Brewer signed SB 1108, the
>>> AzCDL-requested Constitutional Carry bill, into law. Arizona now
>>> becomes the third state to not require written permission from the
>>> government for law-abiding citizens to exercise their right to bear arms
>>> discretely.
>>
>> And the gun control nuts are shitting pineapples that the residents of
>> DC might actually get to defend themselves.
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/16/opinion/16fri4.html
>>
>> They still want to "protect" people, in blind denial of reality. While
>> guns were banned in Washington DC, only criminals had guns. The
>> resulting blood bath was a national disgrace.
>
>have you been in Juarez recently? that will give you a good idea of what
>happens when there are lots of guns in the hands of fools

There is indeed peril when fools have guns, free speech or votes.

== 2 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:09 pm
From: Eregon

"Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in
news:4bca65d7$0$31262$607ed4bc@cv.net:

>
> "Eregon" <Eragon@Saphira.org> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D5DA982E88DEragon@74.209.131.10...
>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in
>> news:4bca13e0$0$4984$607ed4bc@cv.net:
>>
>>> The emphasis, and Gunner's statistics, miss the key point -- which
>>> has been proven by careful regression analysis. The operative factor
>>> is that the CCW holders are people who have no serious criminal
>>> record and who have not been institutionalized.
>>>
>>> In other words, the difference is not between CCW holders and the
>>> general population. It's between people who have passed a CCW-type
>>> background check and the general population.
>>
>> Since the crooks and crazies will carry whatever/whenever/whereever
>> they want anyway, what's your beef?
>
> There's no beef. I happen to favor right-to-carry laws. But I'm not
> impressed with phony arguments, as you should know. Gunner's
> statistics, although accurate on their face (more or less; I dug into
> it about three years ago and learned that it's more equivocal than his
> selections suggest), lead to a phony conclusion -- that concealed
> carry, itself, implies more responsible behavior. There's no real
> evidence of that, for several reasons.
>
>>
>> Is it that the average citizen won't have to waste a lot of time
>> filling out asinine government forms only to have some
>> gun-control-freak deny his application "just because"?
>
> It's just the statistical evidence: People who go through background
> checks and are approved are less likely to commit crimes. That's what
> the paper I referred to was about. I'm not saying it was the last word
> (I really can't follow much regression analysis) but it seems likely
> that the methodology was solid and that the conclusions were correct.
> As is often the case, some researchers spent a lot of time and effort
> confirming something that anyone with a clear head probably realizes
> intuitively.
>
>>
>> Is it that Arizona might not get as much revenue from those who wish
>> to carry?
>
> I doubt if revenue had anything to do with the law. The fact is that
> Arizona has a strong conservative element in their politics, as well
> as a libertarian element, and that they just combined through history
> and circumstance to pass a law that is generally favored out there.
>
>>
>> You ARE aware, are you not, that the whole purpose of a CCW permit is
>> to give the "carrier" a legal alibi when some officious badge-toter
>> "discovers" that the "carrier" is "carrying" since the CCW laws
>> generally require that the piece be so concealed that no one other
>> than the "carrier" knows that it's being "carried" and that - if it
>> becomes apparent that the "carrier" is "carrying" - a CCW holder can
>> be charged when a piece becomes apparent to others...
>
> I'm aware of how gun laws work. I was a very active pro-gun activist
> around 15 - 20 years ago.
>
>>
>> You ARE aware, are you not, that the biggest argument AGAINST
>> "carrying" is Self Defense? Self Defense NOT against robbers,
>> murderers, etc. but against LAWYERS!
>
> WHOSE biggest argument? Not mine.
>
>> After all, if you have a CCW then you're a prime target
>> for any shyster since (s)he can easily get a listing of all CCW
>> holders from the state govt. and be lying in wait for you the next
>> time that you drive through a school zone. One good photo of you and
>> (s)he can run to the court house to file an "Endangering" suit
>> against you for enough to pay the whole tab for Obamacare.
>
> You have a vivid imagination. It tends to color your posts,
> frequently. d8-)
>
>>
>> It'd be even worse if you actually used that cannon since all of the
>> perp's kinfolk and/or heirs will line up to sue you for "Wrongful
>> Death" and any bystanders will be lining up to sue you for "Reckless
>> Endangerment", "Brandishing", and anything else that a starving
>> shyster can envision. <evil grin>
>
> Paranoia strikes deep, Eregon.
>

So do Lawyers - in the bank balance.

When Lawyers get in the act almost anything can happen regardless of the
specific wording of a specific law. Nowhere is this more apparent than
cases that are decided by emotional appeals to jurors - usually in the
plaintiff's favor - such as the bimbo whose coffee splattered because she
was too stupid to use a cup holder and, yet, got a lot of money out of
McDonalds. (Although her award was reduced on appeal the fact is that she
should have been required to pay McDonalds' legal expenses instead of
collecting anything.)

Perhaps you didn't hear that Joe Horn (the Texas man who provided that
state's first "Castle Law" case) had a lawsuit filed by one of the
burglars' families for "Wrongful Death". The Murder case verdict (and the
"Castle Law") was all that saved his home and savings as the civil suit
was withdrawn.

Not all states have "Castle Laws".

There are far too many that expect [potential] victims to run screaming
for their lives when confronted by an attacker/intruder.

== 3 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:16 pm
From: Eregon

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in news:
_KqdnVrJXsh1qVfWnZ2dnUVZ_gCdnZ2d@giganews.com:

> It's not legal to drink in supermarkets so I'd imagine there are fewer
> shoppers that have alchohol in their system.

You ARE imagining things.

> That doesn't mean I haven't seen people that were really loaded in
> supermarkets. I have. They are the exception, not the rule.
>

How often do you go to the supermarket at 0200?

== 4 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:30 pm
From: "Steve B"

I hope Utah adopts it. They already have some lax regs, one being too lax.
They lost reciprocity with Nevada because Utah dropped its requirement for a
live fire qualification from applicants.

Duh. So, now when we go to Vegas, we have to be a little more diligent, and
I carry pepper spray more.

To get a Utah permit, you could qualify with any semi-auto, and be qualified
for all calibers. Same with wheel guns. In Nevada, you had to qualify with
EVERY pistol you wanted to carry. And pay extra. Cost ran up quick.

Steve

"Gunner Asch" <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:l6eis51i5mgka8b5hlu0rbc3m28oan0c1a@4ax.com...
> Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 3:38 PM
> Subject: [AZCDL_Alerts] Governor signs Constitutional Carry!
>
>
>
> YOU did it! Today, April 16, 2010, Governor Brewer signed SB 1108, the
> AzCDL-requested Constitutional Carry bill, into law. Arizona now
> becomes the third state to not require written permission from the
> government for law-abiding citizens to exercise their right to bear arms
> discretely. Because Arizona is the first state in the U.S. with a large
> urban population to take this significant step, this is a watershed
> moment for the entire country.
>
> AzCDL has been working towards this moment since we formed 5 years ago.
> Constitutional Carry has always been one of our primary goals. Every
> success over the last 5 years has been pursued with today's historic
> occasion in mind. However, having a goal is meaningless without the
> support and activism of over 3,000 committed members. The citizens of
> Arizona, along with the citizens of other states that follow in our
> footsteps, owe YOU, the members of AzCDL, a debt of gratitude.
>
> If you don't have a permit, don't start carrying concealed just yet.
> The law won't become effective until 90 days after "Sine Die" when the
> Legislature officially adjourns. Since they are still working through a
> slew of bills, we don't expect Sine Die anytime soon. In past years,
> the effective date of bills has been around September.
>
> CCW permits still have a purpose. You'll need one to streamline gun
> purchases, to carry in states that honor Arizona permits and for
> carrying concealed in establishments that serve alcohol. And, the
> training you receive to obtain a permit is an added bonus. Along with
> restoring your right to bear arms, SB 1108 added additional training
> opportunities for obtaining a permit. NRA classes and training from
> places like Front Sight and Gunsite will be able to qualify as permit
> training.
>
> If you decide not to obtain a CCW permit, that doesn't mean you
> shouldn't train. The heaviest thing about wearing a firearm is the
> responsibility that comes with it. Take that money that you save on
> permit and renewal fees and spend it on quality training as often as you
> can. Lead by example - the world is watching.
>
> For the record, AzCDL contacted the other major candidates for Governor,
> Terry Goddard, Dean Martin, Buzz Mills, and John Munger, about whether
> they would have signed SB 1108. At this point Dean Martin, Buzz Mills,
> and John Munger have responded that they support the bill and would have
> signed it. We are still waiting to hear from Terry Goddard.
>
>

== 5 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:39 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Eregon" <Eragon@Saphira.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9D5DEB891B9A1Eragon@74.209.131.10...
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in
> news:4bca65d7$0$31262$607ed4bc@cv.net:
>
>>
>> "Eregon" <Eragon@Saphira.org> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9D5DA982E88DEragon@74.209.131.10...
>>> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote in
>>> news:4bca13e0$0$4984$607ed4bc@cv.net:
>>>
>>>> The emphasis, and Gunner's statistics, miss the key point -- which
>>>> has been proven by careful regression analysis. The operative factor
>>>> is that the CCW holders are people who have no serious criminal
>>>> record and who have not been institutionalized.
>>>>
>>>> In other words, the difference is not between CCW holders and the
>>>> general population. It's between people who have passed a CCW-type
>>>> background check and the general population.
>>>
>>> Since the crooks and crazies will carry whatever/whenever/whereever
>>> they want anyway, what's your beef?
>>
>> There's no beef. I happen to favor right-to-carry laws. But I'm not
>> impressed with phony arguments, as you should know. Gunner's
>> statistics, although accurate on their face (more or less; I dug into
>> it about three years ago and learned that it's more equivocal than his
>> selections suggest), lead to a phony conclusion -- that concealed
>> carry, itself, implies more responsible behavior. There's no real
>> evidence of that, for several reasons.
>>
>>>
>>> Is it that the average citizen won't have to waste a lot of time
>>> filling out asinine government forms only to have some
>>> gun-control-freak deny his application "just because"?
>>
>> It's just the statistical evidence: People who go through background
>> checks and are approved are less likely to commit crimes. That's what
>> the paper I referred to was about. I'm not saying it was the last word
>> (I really can't follow much regression analysis) but it seems likely
>> that the methodology was solid and that the conclusions were correct.
>> As is often the case, some researchers spent a lot of time and effort
>> confirming something that anyone with a clear head probably realizes
>> intuitively.
>>
>>>
>>> Is it that Arizona might not get as much revenue from those who wish
>>> to carry?
>>
>> I doubt if revenue had anything to do with the law. The fact is that
>> Arizona has a strong conservative element in their politics, as well
>> as a libertarian element, and that they just combined through history
>> and circumstance to pass a law that is generally favored out there.
>>
>>>
>>> You ARE aware, are you not, that the whole purpose of a CCW permit is
>>> to give the "carrier" a legal alibi when some officious badge-toter
>>> "discovers" that the "carrier" is "carrying" since the CCW laws
>>> generally require that the piece be so concealed that no one other
>>> than the "carrier" knows that it's being "carried" and that - if it
>>> becomes apparent that the "carrier" is "carrying" - a CCW holder can
>>> be charged when a piece becomes apparent to others...
>>
>> I'm aware of how gun laws work. I was a very active pro-gun activist
>> around 15 - 20 years ago.
>>
>>>
>>> You ARE aware, are you not, that the biggest argument AGAINST
>>> "carrying" is Self Defense? Self Defense NOT against robbers,
>>> murderers, etc. but against LAWYERS!
>>
>> WHOSE biggest argument? Not mine.
>>
>>> After all, if you have a CCW then you're a prime target
>>> for any shyster since (s)he can easily get a listing of all CCW
>>> holders from the state govt. and be lying in wait for you the next
>>> time that you drive through a school zone. One good photo of you and
>>> (s)he can run to the court house to file an "Endangering" suit
>>> against you for enough to pay the whole tab for Obamacare.
>>
>> You have a vivid imagination. It tends to color your posts,
>> frequently. d8-)
>>
>>>
>>> It'd be even worse if you actually used that cannon since all of the
>>> perp's kinfolk and/or heirs will line up to sue you for "Wrongful
>>> Death" and any bystanders will be lining up to sue you for "Reckless
>>> Endangerment", "Brandishing", and anything else that a starving
>>> shyster can envision. <evil grin>
>>
>> Paranoia strikes deep, Eregon.
>>
>
> So do Lawyers - in the bank balance.
>
> When Lawyers get in the act almost anything can happen regardless of the
> specific wording of a specific law. Nowhere is this more apparent than
> cases that are decided by emotional appeals to jurors - usually in the
> plaintiff's favor - such as the bimbo whose coffee splattered because she
> was too stupid to use a cup holder and, yet, got a lot of money out of
> McDonalds. (Although her award was reduced on appeal the fact is that she
> should have been required to pay McDonalds' legal expenses instead of
> collecting anything.)
>
> Perhaps you didn't hear that Joe Horn (the Texas man who provided that
> state's first "Castle Law" case) had a lawsuit filed by one of the
> burglars' families for "Wrongful Death". The Murder case verdict (and the
> "Castle Law") was all that saved his home and savings as the civil suit
> was withdrawn.
>
> Not all states have "Castle Laws".
>
> There are far too many that expect [potential] victims to run screaming
> for their lives when confronted by an attacker/intruder.

From CCW to spilling coffee from McDonald's; you seem to have something to
bitch about at every turn.

I can see it gives you a lot to write about here. Now, if we could get you
to check your facts first, it might even be worth reading. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

== 6 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:35 pm
From: "Steve B"

"Ignoramus25624" <ignoramus25624@NOSPAM.25624.invalid> wrote in message
news:AdCdnWGr1ZWXYlTWnZ2dnUVZ_g2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>I am curious, how does it work out, in reality, when people carry
> concealed weapons into drinking establishments. Has there been many
> armed incidents, or not? I do not want opinions and would rather
> prefer some numbers.
>
> i

It varies state to state, but I'm going to go out on a limb, and say that
most states ban firearms where they sell liquor. Just as they ban them in
banks, schools, public buildings, libraries, and any private properties
(like Walmart or Walgreens) where the company posts No Firearms Allowed,
Lawful or otherwise.

I wait to be corrected from someone who knows the exact stats. When I lived
in Texas, it was posted prominently, and was a felony. Not sure if that
still applies. Most bars just use the private property right to ban them,
as alcohol and guns are an unbalanced equation.

Steve

== 7 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:37 pm
From: "Steve B"

"Wes" <ClutchAtLycosDotCom@Gmail.com> wrote in message
news:_poyn.219732$rq1.211039@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
> Ignoramus25624 <ignoramus25624@NOSPAM.25624.invalid> wrote:
>
>>I am curious, how does it work out, in reality, when people carry
>>concealed weapons into drinking establishments. Has there been many
>>armed incidents, or not? I do not want opinions and would rather
>>prefer some numbers.
>
> Since the person carrying in the case of Arizona can not imbibe, what
> difference is there
> in carrying in a bar or supermarket?
>
> Wes

I forgot about that Wes. In my last class, we were informed that if we had
one drink while carrying, it was grounds for forfeiture of permit. State of
Nevada. NO alcohol threshold limit like driving.

Steve

== 8 of 8 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:41 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Gunner Asch" <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:tgnks5p3c5frhssplit50h65vapo5cpp09@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 17:58:03 -0400, Wes <ClutchAtLycosDotCom@Gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Ed,
>>
>>Have your argument with Gunner. Please don't use me as his proxy. I'm
>>talking apples and
>>you are talking oranges.
>>
>>
>>Wes
>
> Actually..Ed is talking bullshit. It may smell somewhat like
> oranges...but...
>
> Gunner

I thought you claimed that you don't read my posts? <g>

Don't bother to try, Gunner. We know how you do with facts. If you can't
cut-and-paste 'em from some bullshit blog, you can't handle it.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: CO2 or mix for MIG
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5de58e9e72a95182?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:11 pm
From: Big Ben

Randy wrote:

> You need 10% or less Co2 for spray transfer, or so I was told.
>

yep...like I said, I've used C10 (90% Argon/10%CO2) for spray transfer
welding....been a while tho'

had two identical Millers in the shop...both had their "favorite"
settings that worked right for spraying, but could be approximated as
"really HOT and really FAST"....had to swap to an .045 tip to reliably
spray with .035 wire, something about the magic way that copper has of
shrinking when heated...

I used to build water tenders...
a basic 20 foot "A" model tank set for duallies (about 2000 gallons)
had about 80 feet of spray transfer weld applied to inside seams
a "B" model with similar dimensions would require about 56 feet of
same

eyes sure would be tired after a day of spraying

--
Big Ben
BS266
the "feelin' gritty just thinkin' about it" Slug

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:23 pm
From: "Steve B"

"Gunner Asch" <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:956ks5hk4dmha3hnr6g5g8n49np7gcl6fg@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 06:37:39 -0700, "Steve B"
> <deserttraveler@dishynail.net> wrote:
>
>>I just put an ad for a CO2 bottle on craigslist. I own a waist high
>>argon/CO2, but the cost for refilling is quite a lot more than CO2. The
>>mix
>>gives a better weld with slightly less spatter, but other than that, is it
>>worth all the extra money?
>>
>>What do you use, and why?
>>
>>Steve
>>
> 99% of my mig welding is with CO2 only.
>
> Its hotter then argon..so a smaller machine makes a deeper weld, but it
> does tend to splatter a bit more than 75/25 and is not as "pretty" a
> weld..which is subjective of course. Particularly under a coat of paint.
>
> Since most of my welding is rough welding..a fast pass with a good stiff
> wire wheel takes off the splatter.
>
> And CO2 is VERY inexpensive and lasts and lasts. Something like 35% of
> the cost of argon, with about 800% or more...or more of the amount of
> available gas in the bottle.
>
> I have 127 cf bottle of Tri-mix out there as well. REALLY a hot arc and
> the wire SCREAMS out of the gun.
>
> Then Ive got probably 500 cf of pure argon, for TIG.
>
> Gunner, with 11 bottles of various gases in the racks.
>
>

I started off in 1980 with a new MillerMatic 200 and a chop saw, grinder,
and a BIG bottle of CO2. I welded for years never knowing that there was a
mixed gas for MIG. Then I got into different things, and had a call to do
about 500 footrests for slot machine stools. They wanted them VERY pretty,
and convinced me to get the mixed gas. The cost of the job paid for more
than the bottle, so I tried it. Actually, it does produce a prettier weld,
a narrower bead, and less spatter, but not all that great for the cost.
IIRC, just a pass with a cup knot brush, and it was clean of spatter. The
spatter did stick pretty good, but not so much that the brush didn't knock
it off.

It's just time to go get some gas, and the guy told me he'd make me a deal
on my owner tank, which I bought from him, in exchange for a CO2 tank and
regulator. Plus, the CO2 can be filled in the little town I live in, rather
than driving a 60 mile round trip to go to the city.

But, hell, if I find a cheap CO2 tank, I'll probably end up with two. A guy
can't have too many tools, even if you only use if once a presidency.

Steve

==============================================================================
TOPIC: about stainless steel tubing cutting process.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/802799826b79f194?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:11 pm
From: jc

On Apr 17, 7:59 pm, "DoN. Nichols" <dnich...@d-and-d.com> wrote:
> On 2010-04-17, jc <yoshidesi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi,all
>
> > I need to cut out straight 1mm or 1.5 mm slice from 10" long annealed
> > stainless tubing 1-1/2"OD{A} x1.370"ID"{B}x.065"{C}----304.
> > I am going to use sherline lathe machine.
>
> Hmm ... rather large for a Sherline. Since it won't feed
> through the spindle (1-1/2" OD would not quite do so even on my 12x24"
> Clausing) you'll need a steady rest. Does one come with the Sherline,
> or is it an extra cost option?
>
> A bit of web searching says that it is Sherline's part number
> 1074.
>
> A bit more searching says that if you got the 'B' or 'C' package
> deals you got the 1074 steady rest. Otherwise, unless you separately
> bought it, you don't have one. Oh yes -- if you got the "Ultimate
> Machine Shop" package (lathe and mill combined) you also got the 1074
> steady rest.
>
> Otherwise, it will apparently cost you $40.00
>
> And I think that you will want to open the chuck up inside the
> tubing to grip on the steps of the chuck instead of trying to open it far
> enough to use the normal gripping approach. Though you can reverse the
> jaws on the Sherline 3-jaw chuck (part numbers 1040 and 1041 depending
> on which you have), so you can grip on the outside.
>
> In any case -- for that thin a material I would suggest turning
> a plug which would barely fit inside the tubing (if gripping it from the
> outside) to prevent deflection of the tubing walls and resulting poorer
> grip.
>
> If you are expanding the jaws inside the workpiece, turn a ring
> which just barely slips over the OD of the workpiece to again control
> deflection.
>
> > If I make my own tool bit from tungsten or HSS blank,or maybe diamond
> > tip??? what shape of tip is good?
>
> Diamond should be avoided in any ferrous metal.
>
> You really want something like a parting tool (thin blade which
> is tapered from top to bottom so it does not bind).
>
> They list one as their part number 3002 "Cutoff tool and
> holder), and they charge $50.00 for that.
>
> If you want to see what it looks like, go to their web page:
>
> <http://www.sherline.com/accessor.htm>
>
> and scroll down to 3002 and click on the ".html version" or the ".pdf
> version" to get an instruction sheet. This will show you what the blade
> looks like, which is what you really need.
>
> To see what the steady rest looks like and how to use it, from
> this same page click on one of the choices for 1074 ("Steady rest").
>
> You could also use the "Follower Rest" (part number 1090) instead
> of the "Steady Rest". That one costs $70.00 -- a bit more, but perhaps
> more convenient for parting off multiple rings as you appear to plan to
> do.
>
> > I'd be very appreciated if anyone has good idea and advice or
> > suggestion for this cutting process.
>
> You have my suggestions above.
>
> Good luck,
> DoN.
>
> --
> Email: <dnich...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
> (too) near Washington D.C. |http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
> --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

thank you, Don
I have steady rest and grip with 3 jaw reverse grip and cutting tool.
I thought and I feel this cutting tool is too wide its like cross to
2mm wide cutting tip.
So that's why I was seeking something more thin point and strong
material for slice stainless tube.
can you just tell me why not good for diamond tool for steel?
Thanks.

Yoshi.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/ca975eee3c749f93?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:15 pm
From: "Steve B"

<dcaster@krl.org> wrote in message
news:be955edd-c1ed-4b60-a9cf-b8bee83c926d@r1g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 17, 7:37 am, Wes <ClutchAtLycosDot...@Gmail.com> wrote:

> What sized air conditioner do I need for a roughly 8' x 12' shop where
> summer temperatures
> seldom get over 90 degrees F? There is a lot of thermal mass in the shop
> that might skew
> what would be recommended for something of volume like a bed room.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Wes

If it has a lot of thermal mass, you could put it on a timer and run
it at night when the outside temperature is lower. Get the shop so it
is a little on the cool side and then a small unit would work to keep
it cool.

Dan

One time, I rented a 1250 sf, or so, shop. It was a metal building, with
concrete slab, and it was all insulated, and had a big heat pump on it.
Actually quality construction. In the summer, I just couldn't get it cool.
I called the manager, and he called the AC guy. He came and tested, and
pronounced everything good. He just said that I had such a thermal mass of
stored steel and equipment that the residual heat kept it from cooling. He
said if I did want it to cool down, it would take running 24/7 for about two
weeks to draw all the btus out of the steel, and then, it would shoot back
up if I opened the door, or gained the heat back. So much for an AC'd shop.
But that included about twenty bundles of tubing at any time, plus lots of
plate and other assorted steel, plus heat created by cutting and welding and
the machines.

Steve

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Teaparty's Money
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/5525a91ab60e1544?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:26 pm
From: Hawke

On 4/17/2010 1:16 PM, wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 12:01:29 -0700, Hawke
> <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>
>> Now we know who the tea partiers are from the polling the NY Times did
>> on them, that they are mainly older white males, with college educations
>> and higher incomes than average, what else have we learned about them?
>
> That they're almost as likely as gummer to overrate their income and
> intelligence? I don't know a single teapartier who is wealthy. Many of
> the ones I know have one source of income - SS. A few I can think of
> would qualify as "higher than average" income, mostly because the
> average in the area is about $10 an hour. Two work for local
> government. Some are the type who'll say that hating n*iggers doesn't
> make them racists.
>
> Anybody know how many teapartiers were called, and if a sample of the
> answers was verified in any way? Were the respondents told what
> constitutes "average income", or were they simply asked if they
> believed they were above average? I'm thinking the majority live in
> Lake Wobegon.
>
> Wayne

From the polling the Times did it shows that the Tea partiers are
nothing more than older republican men. They like to pretend they are
something else but in the end they are nothing more than republican
voters. They're almost all white. They're almost all men and they are
mostly older guys. That group has been voting republican for a long
time. Come November they will vote like they always do, republican. You
won't see many people of color at these "rallies" or many people who
actually voted for Obama. It's just disgruntled republican men who are
really pissed off their party doesn't get to call the shots any more.
They're just a bunch of babies crying because someone else is in charge
now and is not doing things the way they want. My response to them is to
just say shut up!

Hawke

== 2 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:30 pm
From: "Buerste"

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:6LKdnd-sbfhn8FfWnZ2dnUVZ_o2dnZ2d@giganews.com...
> Buerste wrote:
>> <wmbjkREMOVE@citlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:nt4ks5tsfkp1qbuujaajnqvg5b0ijg4unn@4ax.com...
>>> On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 12:01:29 -0700, Hawke
>>> <davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Now we know who the tea partiers are from the polling the NY Times
>>>> did on them, that they are mainly older white males, with college
>>>> educations and higher incomes than average, what else have we
>>>> learned about them?
>>>
>>> That they're almost as likely as gummer to overrate their income and
>>> intelligence? I don't know a single teapartier who is wealthy. Many
>>> of the ones I know have one source of income - SS. A few I can think
>>> of would qualify as "higher than average" income, mostly because the
>>> average in the area is about $10 an hour. Two work for local
>>> government. Some are the type who'll say that hating n*iggers doesn't
>>> make them racists.
>>>
>>> Anybody know how many teapartiers were called, and if a sample of the
>>> answers was verified in any way? Were the respondents told what
>>> constitutes "average income", or were they simply asked if they
>>> believed they were above average? I'm thinking the majority live in
>>> Lake Wobegon.
>>>
>>> Wayne
>>
>> Whistling past the graveyard, I see. You've never met a Tea Party
>> affiliate, you obviously don't get out much, why pretend?
>
> Have you Tom?
<snip>
> John R. Carroll
>
>

I just love the way that Tea Party lives in your head...rent free! Enjoy!

== 3 of 3 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:41 pm
From: Hawke

On 4/17/2010 1:18 PM, Wes wrote:
> Hawke<davesmithers@digitalpath.net> wrote:
>
>> We found out where they are getting the money to finance them. From
>> right wing political organizations like Americans for Prosperity. Take a
>> guess who is the chairman of the board of Americans for Prosperity.
>> David Koch, who I mentioned before as the owner of Koch Industries. He's
>> a billionaire, owns a privately held coal company, and is financing the
>> anti global warming effort. He's also behind the teabaggers too.
>
>
> Does that make him the Soros of the right? LMAO
>
> Wes

No, they're different though both are billionaires. Soros has a liberal
agenda that he's advocating for and puts his money where his mouth is.
You can find out what he thinks and where he stands on the issues. He
doesn't do covert financing. He' not lying about anything. He believes
in what he's doing and is up front about it.

Koch, on the other hand, is behind the scenes manipulating information
to advance an agenda that he knows is false. He knows that global
warming is scientifically a fact yet he's spending millions to try to
hide that from the public by secretly financing all kinds of
organizations who do nothing but try to perpetrate a lie exactly the
same way tobacco companies used to do about the dangers of tobacco. Koch
is also denying any connection to the tea party but he's the chairman of
the board of Americans for Prosperity. That's the Dick Armey led group
that is providing funds for the tea party and is organizing the
gatherings and public relations.

You probably can't distinguish any difference between the two. Which
means you should never be put in a position where you have to judge
anything other than whether you think a Big Mac or a Whopper is better.

Hawke

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Just a heads up....
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/507d36381a50823d?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:26 pm
From: "Ed Huntress"

"Joseph Gwinn" <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:joegwinn-E6A425.18382517042010@news.giganews.com...
> In article <4bca17e6$0$5002$607ed4bc@cv.net>,
> "Ed Huntress" <huntres23@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> <dcaster@krl.org> wrote in message
>> news:52e28fec-e82f-4c51-8f19-24d42bf705b6@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com...
>> On Apr 17, 10:55 am, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > Dammit, Dan, if I did that, you'd just say that, "no, you have to look
>> > at
>> > the individual states and see what percentages they're gaining or
>> > losing,
>> > because Eregon was talking about states." Admit it. That's exactly what
>> > you'd do, right?
>> >
>> ).
>> >
>> > In other words, you don't care what the facts are, you just want to
>> > speculate about something that fits your ideology, just like Eregon
>> > did.
>> > Not interested in finding out what you're talking about, you'd rather
>> > live
>> > on conservative economic bullshit and content yourself with that.
>> >
>> > Too bad. By digging out the facts, you get all kinds of surprises, and
>> > you
>> > realize that the ideologies are all bullshit. But it's not very
>> > comforting
>> > that way, so hang on to your speculations. You always can cook up a
>> > good,
>> > comforting narrative that way.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ed Huntress
>>
>> >I really do not care. And I am not trying to cook up a comforting
>> >narrative. You might note that I did not say anything about right to
>> >work states being better or worse than non right to work states. Or
>> >anything concerning the original statement or even your statements.
>> >
>> >What I am saying is that you can not average percentages the way you
>> >did and get meaningful data.
>>
>> Yes you can. What you get is confirmation that the RTW does not improve a
>> state's chance of limiting firings and layoffs. That's the only question
>> that was at issue.
>>
>> > You say that the average job loss
>> >percentage for the Northeastern states is -5.71 And that is
>> >incorrect.
>>
>> No, it's exactly correct. The average job loss percentage for a union
>> state
>> in the Northeast (which is all of them) is -5.71%. Period.
>
> I don't have an opinion on the politics, but the math is a different
> matter:
>
> Averaging percentages is incorrect unless the populations from which the
> percentages were computed are equal.
>
> Let's take a small example: We have two jars of colored beads, A and B:
>
> Jar A contains 1000 beads, of which 100 are black and 900 are white, so
> 100/(100+900)= 10% are black.
>
> Jar B contains 100 beads, 50 are black and 50 are white, so 50% are black.
>
> If I pour the contents of Jars A and B into empty Jar C, what percentage
> of the
> beads in Jar C are black?
>
> If we average the percentages, we get (10%+50%)/2= 30%.
>
> If we instead count beads, we get (100+50)/(1000+100)= 14.1%.
>
>
> I submit that 14.1% is correct, not 30%.
>
>
> Joe Gwinn

Joe, it isn't a matter of math. It's a matter of English.

What I said, and what my data said, is that RTW laws in Southern states have
resulted in a percentage of job losses, in the average state, that is higher
than the average percentage of job losses in the average Northeastern, union
state. That's what the data above show; that's what the average was all
about.

You're talking about a different question. Your question asks whether the
average of the *total number* of job losses in one group of states is higher
or lower, as a percentage of employment, in one group of states versus the
other. You want the aggregate numbers.

I recall this distinction being a big issue in 5th or 6th grade math. They
made very certain that we knew the distinction. <g>

The answer to your question is that the one-year manufacturing job losses in
those Southern states with RTW laws, as of March 2010,
was 6.40% of the total manufacturing employment in those states one year
ago. In the Northeastern states, it was 5.99%. In other words, it's the same
conclusion: Right-to-work laws not only don't provide a hedge against
layoffs and firings. They do the opposite.

Eregon spewed forth the standard conservative bromide, that RTW states don't
experience the percentage of layoffs in a downturn that union states do.
That's horse pucky, and every real economist has known it for decades. It's
a piece of ideological nonsense that hangs on year after year, despite the
fact that the truth about it has been readily available since I was doing
economic reports in the metalworking press.

The important facts about right-to-work laws are that they are political
maneuvers intended to lure manufacturing plants in from other places. In
exchange for placing a plant in Alabama, a manufacturer gets cheap labor and
a free hand to fire and lay people off with no serious impediments (plus tax
breaks, etc.). They can give a dirt-poor economy a big shot in the arm but
then they wind up producing volatility in the job market.

The really important part, though, is that they don't reduce overall
unemployment. For a while, unemployment goes down, and then people move in
to take up the new jobs. With the volatility that the job market now
experiences, unemployment can shoot up. Right now, against a national
average of 9.7% unemployment (March), NC is 11.1%; GA is 10.6%; MS is 11.5%;
SC is 12.2%; and FL is 12.3%.

Right-to-work laws, in other words, come around to bite a state in the ass.
They wind up with lower wages, volatile employment, and high overall
unemployment rates in a downturn. In any case, they are no better off in
almost any way than states with union shops.

--
Ed Huntress

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Karl, what do you think about this kit
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/03393350cf311ee5?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:27 pm
From: Larry Jaques

On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 08:26:45 -0500, the infamous "Pete C."
<aux3.DOH.4@snet.net> scrawled the following:

>
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:24:24 -0500, the infamous "Pete C."
>> <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net> scrawled the following:
>>
>> >
>> >Karl Townsend wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >>>>No, steppers ABSOLUTELY do not meet my needs.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Do they leave a stepped finish, or what? Why the horror/caps?
>> >> >>
>> >> >>My bandit was a decent enough mill with servos. Got tired of the whopping
>> >> >>120K program size limit. When i switched to steppers with PC control, I
>> >> >>screwed up several parts. So, I spent nearly 3K on large steppers and
>> >> >>large
>> >> >>stepper drives. Still screwed up parts. Keep in mind it only takes a split
>> >> >>second on one move for the rest of the program to be off. All in all this
>> >> >>change cost me thousands and untold wasted time. A servo can go 100% over
>> >> >>power for a split second when it gets behind. There's no way to tell a
>> >> >>stepper - no feedback.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>A person making tiny parts at very slow speeds won't have issues. Not what
>> >> >>I
>> >> >>do.
>> >> >
>> >> > So the price of larger steppers/drives is nearly that of servos?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> 600 oz in steppers are common with the hobby market. You get into big bucks
>> >> going larger.
>> >>
>> >> 600/12/16 =3.1 ft lbs
>> >>
>> >> You run steppers at low rpm for best results, say 200
>> >>
>> >> torque*rpm/5252=hp
>> >> 3.1*200/5252=.11 hp
>> >>
>> >> A 1/4 hp. servo costs less and is rated for 1/2 hp for a few seconds AND
>> >> your control will let you know the second there is trouble.
>> >
>> >To follow on to that, the next incremental step up from open-loop
>> >stepper control, is DC brush servo control with step/dir drives such as
>> >the Gecko drives. These provide closed-loop servo control and a fault
>> >shutdown signal to the control (like Mach3) to stop motion instantly if
>> >the servo error exceeds the threshold. Since it is servos, it has the
>> >peak overload capability of servos, the speed of servos and since it has
>> >the position encoders, it has the closed-loop of servos. The only thing
>> >it lacks is the encoder position feedback to the control software, but
>> >since it has the fault output, this lack is of little practical
>> >difference for normal use. This setup eliminates the problems with
>> >open-loop stepper control that Karl mentioned, without the expense of
>> >industrial grade servos, drives and motion control cards.
>>
>> Do you have knowledge of any fairly inexpensive systems on the market
>> built like this?
>
>http://www.candcnc.com/
>
>Look at the servo based systems there, they use the Gecko step/dir servo
>drives.

Cool. Pricing not too bad. Mach3 license at half price, good!

Why are so many of these parallel port driven instead of USB?

---
A book burrows into your life in a very profound way
because the experience of reading is not passive.
--Erica Jong

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Free if you want it
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/7044e47aedef17c3?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:33 pm
From: Comrade technomaNge

Digiboard, fits full length ISA slot in your computer.
This is approx 15" long.
Provides 8 serial ports, but the cable on this one only has 4
connections so 4 serial ports.

Info:
fcc id fjs46w70198
pn 55000178.

8 port with 4 port cable.

Looks like this one:

http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/io-cards/C-D/DIGI-INTERNATIONAL-INC-Serial-card-PC-8.html

Email to ohb at bellsouth dot net.

technomaNge
--
Due to anticipated high turnout in 2010's election,
the Electorial College has scheduled:

Nov. 1, 2010 All Independents vote.
Nov. 2, 2010 All Republicans vote.
Nov. 3, 2010 All Democrats vote.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: A bloody 12 hours in gun ban Obamaland; 7 dead, 18 wounded
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/dd2c9c515613de5e?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:45 pm
From: "Steve B"

"Gunner Asch" <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1egis5lahk3jf5l2jbql9b9lqj0s2tbssq@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 21:11:04 -0700, "Steve B"
> <deserttraveler@dishynail.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Chief Egalitarian" <Egal@legal_egal.law> wrote in message
>>news:4bc931d6$1@news.x-privat.org...
>>> http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2010/04/3-wounded-in-separate-south-side-shootings.html
>>>
>>> A bloody 12 hours in Chicago; 7 dead, 18 wounded
>>> April 16, 2010 1:39 PM
>>> It was an exceptionally violent and bloody 12 hours in Chicago.
>>>
>>> Seven people were killed from late Thursday afternoon to early Friday
>>> morning across the South Side--from Back of the Yards to Calumet Heights
>>> to Morgan Park. Over the same period, another 18 people were wounded in
>>> 13
>>> separate shootings.
>>>
>>> There have been no arrests.
>>>
>>> The first slaying in the grim tally came about 4:40 p.m. yesterday when
>>> Anthony Lopez, 22, was shot in the chest and killed in a confrontation
>>> with rival gang members in the 1700 block of West Cullerton Avenue in
>>> the
>>> Heart of Chicago neighborhood.
>>>
>>> The last came at 3:10 a.m. in the drive-by killing of 30-year-old Roger
>>> Walker, of the 10900 block of South Racine Avenue, in the 1400 block of
>>> West 110th Street in the Morgan Park neighborhood.
>>>
>>> In between those slayings, police said, there were five others:
>>>
>>> Just before 6 p.m., Bernard Hatcher, 20, was shot multiple times in the
>>> 7800 block of South Maryland Avenue as he was walking down the street.
>>> Hatcher, of the 7800 block of South Eberhardt Avenue, was pronounced
>>> dead
>>> at Stroger Hospital at 7:03 p.m.
>>>
>>> About 10:25 p.m., a gunman emerged from a gangway in the 7000 block of
>>> South St. Lawrence Avenue and shot Anthony Williams, 29, in the face and
>>> chest. Williams, who lived three blocks south, was taken to Advocate
>>> Christ Medical Center and declared dead at 11:13 p.m.
>>>
>>> About 11 p.m., DeAndre Morgan and his girlfriend were pushing their baby
>>> son in a stroller on the 900 block of West 53rd St. when they walked
>>> past
>>> a parked vehicle with four men inside. A rear-seat occupant got out and
>>> began shooting. Morgan, 18, of the 5200 block of South Morgan Street,
>>> was
>>> pronounced dead at Stroger at 11: 44 p.m.
>>>
>>> Just after 11:15 p.m., Ramone Cook, 19, was found shot in the head on
>>> the
>>> 8700 block of South Ada Street. Cook, of the 1200 block of West 86th
>>> Street, had a .22 caliber handgun tucked in his waistband when police
>>> found him. His death may have been the aftermath of an altercation with
>>> another man over a girl, police said. He was declared dead at 12:03 a.m.
>>> at Little Company of Mary Hospital in Evergreen Park.
>>>
>>> And just before midnight Thursday, 23-year-old Kristle Jackson died in a
>>> shooting that also injured two men near the intersection of 59th Street
>>> and Wabash Avenue. Jackson and one of the male victims had just come out
>>> of a fast-food restaurant, and the other shooting victim out of a store
>>> when two men approached them on foot and opened fire. The assailants had
>>> their shirts pulled up to cover their faces, police said. Jackson, of
>>> the
>>> 2200 block of West Highland Avenue, was dead on the scene.
>>>
>>> In the non-fatal shootings:
>>>
>>> . An 18-year old man was shot in the neck in the 2500 block of West 66th
>>> Street. He was in good condition at Mount Sinai Hospital. Police said he
>>> was a gang member.
>>>
>>> . Not far away in the 2700 block of West 66th, a 22-year-old man,
>>> another
>>> gang member, was sitting in a vehicle when he was shot in the shoulder.
>>> He
>>> was in stable condition at Stroger. A stray bullet hit a 44-year-old man
>>> in the back who was inside a nearby garage.
>>>
>>> . A 32-year-old woman was in good condition at Stroger with a gunshot
>>> wound to her right thigh. Police weren't sure if she was the intended
>>> target of the shooting in the 4700 block of South Throop Street.
>>>
>>> . A 25-year-old man, another gang member, was in critical condition at
>>> Stroger with gunshot wounds to his back and wrist sustained in a
>>> shooting
>>> in the 12400 block of South Union Avenue.
>>>
>>> . Two brothers, ages 22 and 18, also gang members, were in good
>>> condition
>>> at Advocate Trinity Hospital. They were shot in the 2500 block of East
>>> 93rd Street, one in the thigh, the other in the arm.
>>>
>>> . Two more gang members, ages 17 and 16, were shot in the 300 block of
>>> East 85th Street. One was in serious condition at Northwestern Memorial
>>> Hospital with a thigh wound, the other in good condition at the same
>>> hospital with an arm wound. Police said a red pickup truck stopped at
>>> Nat
>>> King Cole Park where several people were playing basketball. Someone
>>> inside the truck shot at the players.
>>>
>>> . Yet another gang member, 22, was riding a bicycle in the 500 block of
>>> East 88th Street when he was shot in the thigh. He was in stable
>>> condition
>>> at Stroger. Police said he was uncooperative and did not want to report
>>> the injury.
>>>
>>> . A 28-year-old woman was sitting on her porch in the 8300 block of
>>> South
>>> Colfax Avenue and was grazed in the neck as an unknown number of gunmen
>>> were shooting at each other.
>>>
>>> . A 15-year-old gang member was shot in the back in the 11700 block of
>>> South Loomis Avenue. He was in stable condition at Advocate Christ
>>> Medical
>>> Center in Oak Lawn.
>>>
>>> . Another man whose age wasn't available was in critical condition at
>>> Mount Sinai with a gunshot wound to his back from a shooting in the 4800
>>> block of West Hirsch Street.
>>>
>>> There were three other shootings for which details were unavailable.
>>
>>I would recommend that Barry go to Chicago post haste and use his HUGE
>>intellectual and negotiating skills to stop this. He should go right out
>>into the streets, and announce his opposition to this mayhem, and to alert
>>the perpetrators that he is now on the case, and the perpetrators in no
>>way
>>will escape justice.
>>
>>Just the way he has done with the savings and loan people.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>
> Maybe he can buy the gangs with taxpayer money?
>
> Gunner
>

I recall some lame redneck president of late who spent lots of tax dollars
on something called midnight basketball ................

Steve

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sat, Apr 17 2010 9:46 pm
From: "Steve B"

"Chief Egalitarian" <Egal@legal_egal.law> wrote

> Imagine how many of those bullets he could have deflected away with those
> HUGE ears flapping around. He would be a hero in his hometown. Instead,
> it's like the wild west around here.

I swear, if the man could wiggle his ears, he could fly.

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Saturday, April 17, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 24 new messages in 13 topics - digest

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