twitter: rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 13 topics

rec.crafts.metalworking
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking?hl=en

rec.crafts.metalworking@googlegroups.com

Today's topics:

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TOPIC: Hardwood Flooring
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/68660c4f6d11e53c?hl=en
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== 1 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:11 pm
From: notme@privacy.net (dan)

What's that Lassie? You say that Larry Jaques fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Sat, 27 Mar 2010 18:05:07 -0700:

>>I don't know what to tell you. Just that the bamboo floor in my
>>friends house looks like crap after two years, and the oak floor that
>>he put in his prior house looked great after 10+years. Perhaps he got
>>low quality flooring?
>
>Perhaps. How/why did the bamboo look bad? Was it dark and they put
>light scratches in it and didn't refinish, or what?

Dents. Where the sofa feet rest on it, there is indentations.
As you sit on the sofa you might move it a little, and then you get
elongated dents. The sofa feet aren't overly small for the weight
either. There are other dents not where the sofa is but aren't as
bad... they may be from high heals.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

== 2 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:14 pm
From: notme@privacy.net (dan)

What's that Lassie? You say that Steve Ackman fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Sat, 27 Mar 2010 17:55:24 -0600:

>In <g36rq5lrka1h3givoc4k49o1m009tjtc6v@4ax.com>, on Fri, 26 Mar 2010
>22:34:01 -0700, Larry Jaques, ljaques@diversify.invalid wrote:
>> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 00:13:10 GMT, the infamous notme@privacy.net (dan)
>> scrawled the following:
>>
>>>What's that Lassie? You say that Pete C. fell down the old
>>>rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
>>>by Fri, 26 Mar 2010 14:05:54 -0500:
>
> [ ... ]
>
>>>Bamboo is not as hard as oak and will get marked up in short order.
>>>Friend of mine has it (wife wanted it for the green angle) and regrets
>>>it.
>>
>> Hmm, it shows up as about 25% harder, 1762 vs 1260.
>> http://www.bamboo-flooring-facts.com/bamboo_flooring_janka_hardness.htm
>
> It was probably an engineered product which,
>according to your link, only rates out at 1690... and
>if it was carbonized at all, that further reduces
>hardness. At the other end of the spectrum is the
>stranded bamboo, which rates at 3014!
>
> Obviously, there are a LOT of variables in bamboo
>flooring. Species used, glue used, vertical or horiz
>orientation, carbonized or not, solid, engineered,
>or stranded... not to even mention installation
>methods and surface finishes.
>
That could be it. The 'planks' are made up of small strips. You have
too look real hard to see them. I'm not sure of the orientation of
the grain.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

== 3 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 11:23 pm
From: "DanG"

Dan, I've heard that there are different qualities of bamboo
flooring, though I have no direct experience. We do have a
conventional maple gym floor that has a huge dent problem right
where the female coach travels up and down the side line in her
high heels ala Sherri Coale at OU.
http://ou.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2009/02/03/wbb3.jpg

We do have a light rubber mat under the chairs and the walk area,
but it appears it is not enough.

--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgriff237@7cox.net

"dan" <notme@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:4bafef72.12806425@news20.forteinc.com...
> What's that Lassie? You say that Larry Jaques fell down the old
> rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a
> rescue
> by Sat, 27 Mar 2010 18:05:07 -0700:
>
>>>I don't know what to tell you. Just that the bamboo floor in
>>>my
>>>friends house looks like crap after two years, and the oak
>>>floor that
>>>he put in his prior house looked great after 10+years. Perhaps
>>>he got
>>>low quality flooring?
>>
>>Perhaps. How/why did the bamboo look bad? Was it dark and they
>>put
>>light scratches in it and didn't refinish, or what?
>
> Dents. Where the sofa feet rest on it, there is indentations.
> As you sit on the sofa you might move it a little, and then you
> get
> elongated dents. The sofa feet aren't overly small for the
> weight
> either. There are other dents not where the sofa is but aren't
> as
> bad... they may be from high heals.
> --
>
> Dan H.
> northshore MA.

== 4 of 4 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:51 pm
From: cavelamb

dan wrote:
> What's that Lassie? You say that Larry Jaques fell down the old
> rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
> by Sat, 27 Mar 2010 18:05:07 -0700:
>
>>> I don't know what to tell you. Just that the bamboo floor in my
>>> friends house looks like crap after two years, and the oak floor that
>>> he put in his prior house looked great after 10+years. Perhaps he got
>>> low quality flooring?
>> Perhaps. How/why did the bamboo look bad? Was it dark and they put
>> light scratches in it and didn't refinish, or what?
>
> Dents. Where the sofa feet rest on it, there is indentations.
> As you sit on the sofa you might move it a little, and then you get
> elongated dents. The sofa feet aren't overly small for the weight
> either. There are other dents not where the sofa is but aren't as
> bad... they may be from high heals.

Is bamboo a hard wood???

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/

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TOPIC: If George Bush........
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/ee503716cb3ad0d5?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 4:08 pm
From: Hawke

On 3/28/2010 6:22 AM, Buerste wrote:
> Lets play a game. It called: LIE, STUPIDITY OR IGNORANCE
>
> "Because Americans are socialists."
> (L, S or I)?
> "First, the uneducated, jobless, skill-less do not vote very often."
> (L, S or I)?
> "Conservatives ran the country for 8 out of the last 10 years."
> (L, S or I)?
> "Those people on the bottom used to have something. Now it's all owned by
> the few."
> (L, S or I)?
> "The problem is that the wealth is maldistributed."
> (L, S or I)?
> "I'm even hearing that in the next jobs report they are saying that instead
> of jobs lost
> there are going to be jobs created for the first time in over 2 years."
> (L, S or I)?
>
> Any of the answers are correct for you.
>
> So, redistributing somebody else's money to those you think deserving is
> your answer to all the worlds problems. I bet you're on the receiving end,
> aren't you Paul?
>
>

I hate to be the one to tell you this but every time you pay a tax you
are participating in the redistribution of wealth. The government's job
is to redistribute wealth. That's the job the people want it to do. Take
taxes according to the ability to pay and use the money for the common
good, that's what governments do. Most of us pay taxes and don't get
anything for it. I pay taxes for school kids but have no kids of my own.
So somebody is redistributing my wealth for other people's needs, but I
don't mind. I guess you never understood how things actually work.
Wealth is redistributed every time taxes are collected and used for the
collective good. So don't you think it's about time that you stop acting
like wealth redistribution is something new or is wrong? Or is it just
you conservatives who never understand how the country works? People in
the know understand that when the proportion of wealth held by the few
becomes too high a country falls apart. We are nearly at that point now.
The nation's wealth needs to be redistributed down so that it's more
widely held. The country will be better for it. But since you care more
about yourself and business interests than you do about America, I
understand why you're against a more equal distribution of wealth. Guys
like you never see the problem with too much wealth in the hands of too
few people. You need to visit Mexico. Maybe then you'll see why it's bad
for a few to own everything. But maybe not.

Hawke

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 7:04 pm
From: "William Wixon"

"John R. Carroll" <nunya@bidness.dev.nul> wrote in message
news:0budnTJ8t-6NMzLWnZ2dnUVZ_vOdnZ2d@giganews.com...

>>
>> This is a bit of a joke. John cut and pasted one of my old messages.
>> I'm curious to see if it gets a different reaction when his name is
>> on it. d8-)
>
> So far, Tom's just changed hobby horses <G>
> First it was taxes, now he's riding school boards and teachers.
> I think my alternative is a lot closer to reality than either of those.
> Cleveland, Cincinnati and Detroit are going to have to go through the same
> evolution that Flint, Michigan has undertaken to heal themselves.
>
> --
> John R. Carroll
>
>

what evolution did flint go through to heal itself?

earlier tonight i went to a move on.org showing of michael moore's
"capitalism: a love story" at the library in new paltz ny. (this general
political discussion, and specifically your mention of flint made me want to
post a message about the movie party.)

http://pol.moveon.org/event/events/index.html?action_id=206

i had tears in my eyes when he showed the workers in the 30's taking over
the gm plant

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flint_Sit-Down_Strike

moore said FDR sent in the national guard, the story line in "capitalism: a
love story" kinda made you think FDR was going to send in troops to crack
heads and break the strike but the movie said FDR posted troops with the
machine guns pointing AT THE LOCAL COPS to protect the workers' right to
strike from the COPS! made me cry, so proud to be an american, so proud of
a government that would put the interests of it's middle class workers
first.

oh! and damnedest thing happened! michael moore himself(!) phoned in, in
the MIDDLE OF THE MOVIE and addressed us (approximately 70 patriots) on the
organizer's cell phone (turned up as loud as possible) and took questions
from the audience! it was absolutely incredible!

b.w.

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TOPIC: Western snow plow with all hydraulics and controller
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/f415f0567c066041?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:22 pm
From: notme@privacy.net (dan)

What's that Lassie? You say that Jim Wilkins fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Sat, 27 Mar 2010 15:58:03 -0700 (PDT):

>That's an advantage of a snowblower over a plow. OTOH in my case the
>only good place to blow most of it is upwind. My neighbor and I clear
>large enough areas to turn around, he uses a 4WD ATV with a plow blade
>and I have the bucket loader. Both machines can pile the snow into
>this ridge along the border between our yards:
>http://picasaweb.google.com/KB1DAL/HomeMadeMachines#5280467615509112306
>The ATV is faster, I think mine is more fun.
>
>Notice that the 6 Megapixel image has been reduced to 100 DPI and 640
>x 480. Not all of us have broadband.

And at 56k dialup, I thank you for that.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:45 pm
From: Wes

Gunner Asch <gunnerasch@gmail.com> wrote:

>Ayup. I lost most of my love for snow, after growing up in, then
>leaving Northern Michigan, where the average snow fall is 124" a year.
>
>12 Feet of snow, 6 months out of the year..was a bit much. Now I live
>in the high desert. I see snow on the tops of the mountains all around
>me.
>
>I think we had an 1/8" on the ground 4 yrs ago. Then it melted about an
>hour later.

We barely had snow this year. Only a few miles from your old stomping grounds. I'm not
complaining.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

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TOPIC: Anniversary of an amazingly enduring design
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/57c9c3facffdfb67?hl=en
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== 1 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 4:17 pm
From: "Pete C."

Gunner Asch wrote:
>
> On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 10:25:44 -0500, "Pete C." <aux3.DOH.4@snet.net>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >Ignoramus11443 wrote:
> >>
> >> That's a very enduring design, yes. I actually own a Beretta and love
> >> it. How does that .45 handle, is the recoil a little too much?
> >>
> >> i
> >
> >I prefer 9mm personally, mostly for the high capacity. I have shot
> >friend's .45s many times during the same shooting sessions as my 9mms
> >and really didn't notice much difference in recoil. Given my tendency
> >for carpal tunnel issues I would think I'd notice. I do notice a
> >difference in recoil between my two S&W 9mms, one being metal frame and
> >one being plastic frame with about 12oz weight difference and otherwise
> >with the same barrel length and shooting the same ammunition. The
> >lighter plastic frame 9mm has more pronounced recoil as you would expect
> >with the lower weight / mass.
>
> High capacity? How many people do you figure are going to be attacking
> you at one time? If its more than 3..doncha think a rifle would be a
> better tool?

Zero would be my preference. I just don't want to have any real
possibility of going empty in any reasonably probable scenario.

== 2 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 4:30 pm
From: "Robert Swinney"

Wes sez
"Of course that configuration isn't a tack driver but then the M1911 was designed for close
in use. Longer distances, use a rife."

Good point, Wes. But an accurized 1911 or one of the new clones will "shoot" with a lot more
accuactely than the average person can hold it.

Bob Swinney

"Wes" <clutch@lycos.com> wrote in message news:covrn.260930$vr1.32325@en-nntp-07.dc1.easynews.com...
"RAM³" <S31924.nospam@netscape.net> wrote:

>"Don Foreman" <dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
>news:127rq55sotskkdbqrodkqs08e4kmdrlu9v@4ax.com...
>> Monday, March 29, is the 99th anniversary of the legendary 1911
>> semiautomatic pistol designed by John Moses Browning.
>>
>
><Excellent write-up snipped for brevity only.>
>
>You forgot to mention that the M1911 is, still, the *only* firearm shown to
>pass the tests that resulted in its adoption.
>
>While many have complained about the "looseness" of the fit of its parts,
>the M1911 re'mains the only handgun that will function in spite of mud, sand,
>etc., under the most extreme conditions.
>
>In "the moment of truth" the M1911 *will* function properly. <GRIN>
>
>BTW, an M1911A1 fits each of my hands perfectly...
>

Wes

== 3 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 4:35 pm
From: "Robert Swinney"

Don,

Clue us in. I'm not familiar with the name "PO8".

Bob Swinney
"Buerste" <buerste@buerste.com> wrote in message news:holm0b$g5e$1@speranza.aioe.org...

"Don Foreman" <dforeman@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:127rq55sotskkdbqrodkqs08e4kmdrlu9v@4ax.com...
> Monday, March 29, is the 99th anniversary of the legendary 1911
> semiautomatic pistol designed by John Moses Browning.
<snip>

JB had a gift! I have a few of his designs and I appreciate them. I have a
P08 that is truely a work of art but hasn't the practicality, durability or
ease of mfg. of the 1911. The bad side is that many of my handguns,
especially the P08 are now too valuable as "collector" pieces that I'm
afraid to use them. The last appraisal I had on the P08 was over $4k, I
wish I had one to shoot!

== 4 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:49 pm
From: Wes

"Robert Swinney" <judybob@tx.rr.com> wrote:

>Wes sez
>"Of course that configuration isn't a tack driver but then the M1911 was designed for close
>in use. Longer distances, use a rife."
>
>Good point, Wes. But an accurized 1911 or one of the new clones will "shoot" with a lot more
>accuactely than the average person can hold it.

But you just can't drop it in the mud no more. ;)

Wes

== 5 of 5 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:53 pm
From: cavelamb

Wes wrote:
> cavelamb <cavelamb@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> You mean like - now???
>>
>> I'm almost ready to believe that it was a one-time thing.
>>
>> Will we EVER go back?
>
> I hope we don't abandon space. I must have Shatner in my head but it is the 'Final
> Frontier' and most of us in the US are decended from explorers. It is in our genetics.
>
> Wes

No, Wes, it's in our past.

(and there's more where that came from)
--

Richard Lamb
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Millrite cuts in one direction only
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fa5c0f160bbad90b?hl=en
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== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:21 pm
From: Wes

Joseph Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:

>> Not for nothin', Joe, but checking the gibs is normally a weekly
>> cleanup/lubrication task.
>
>Yep, but I don't think people really do it weekly.
>
>Especially, the table-saddle gib, which is quite inaccessible.

Joe,

Did you buy it new? If not, did you do a tear down to inspect it?

My Bridgeport needed the oiling system repaired, a bit of shim on the knee gib, and a new
Y screw and split nut to get it up to usefull status. The Y screw failed due to a blocked
oiler.

Wes

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 4:39 pm
From: Joseph Gwinn

In article <ZuRrn.101423$Bs1.57726@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com>,
Wes <clutch@lycos.com> wrote:

> Joseph Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> >> Not for nothin', Joe, but checking the gibs is normally a weekly
> >> cleanup/lubrication task.
> >
> >Yep, but I don't think people really do it weekly.
> >
> >Especially, the table-saddle gib, which is quite inaccessible.
>
> Joe,
>
> Did you buy it new?

No, I bought it used. It was made in 1965, and looks it.

> If not, did you do a tear down to inspect it?

No, but I did see and hear it run before buying it.

I have been incrementally repairing things, with periodic reports to RCM
documenting my progress in learning both machining and machine tool repair. The
big problem has been things frozen by lumps of spooge. As time permits, I take
something apart and clean it, lubricate it, then reassemble it.

Having never owned a machine tool before, I would be loath to do this all in one
go, even if I had the time.

I also added an X,Y, Z (quill) DRO, which is a great help.

> My Bridgeport needed the oiling system repaired, a bit of shim on the knee
> gib, and a new Y screw and split nut to get it up to usefull status. The Y
> screw failed due to a blocked oiler.

The Millrite has no oiling system save the user with oilgun in hand. So far,
spooge removal has sufficed, and I have not had to replace anything.

Joe Gwinn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: fun with your tractor
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/8b925e9e3238029e?hl=en
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== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 4:31 pm
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 28, 4:41 pm, Winston <Wins...@bigbrother.net> wrote:
> On 3/28/2010 5:03 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> (...)
>
> > Lewis Carroll was a mathematician, you know. The axis of iy points
> > down the rabbit hole.
> > jsw
>
> Optimal!
> As soon as the last politico crawls in, I'll be there to
> roll a very real boulder on top of the opening.
> :)
> --Winston

You know where they come from???
Roll it now so no more slither OUT.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: OT -- off grid power systems
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/284c9711ef5c39e6?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:05 pm
From: Jim Wilkins

On Mar 28, 6:10 pm, "Bill McKee" <bmckeespam...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> ...
> The problems I see of feeding back into the grid are multiple. ...

You'd definitely want a UL-listed commercial product, which solves all
those:

http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/25/learn.asp

jsw

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Women.....
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/b933f45a1ed72efa?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:06 pm
From: Winston_Smith

Hang Dog <righteous@wobble.nospam.net> wrote:
>Gunner Asch wrote:

>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXzrUztyd1Y&feature=player_embedded
>
>More right wing theft. Doubt they have permission to use any of the
>photos, and definitely none of the music either.

Fair use.

__
WS in a.s and m.s
Two parties, not a dimes worth of difference.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:19 pm
From: Winston_Smith

Hang Dog <righteous@wobble.nospam.net> wrote:
>Gunner Asch wrote:

>> Odd...according to you Marxists..there is no such thing as private
>> property.
>
>Where did you get the crap from?

Ah, let me think, let me think. Oh yes. From Marx.

It's the first of the ten planks of Marx's 1848 Communist Manifesto.

Let me guess, are you a recent public school graduate.

http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html
You are horrified at our intending to do away with private property.
But in your existing society, private property is already done away
with for nine-tenths of the population; its existence for the few is
solely due to its non-existence in the hands of those nine-tenths. You
reproach us, therefore, with intending to do away with a form of
property, the necessary condition for whose existence is the
non-existence of any property for the immense majority of society.

__
WS in a.s and m.s
Two parties, not a dimes worth of difference.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Millrite X-axis thrust bearings were frozen
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/804ccadb81028937?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:12 pm
From: Joseph Gwinn

On my old (built in 1965) Millrite MVI vertical mill, one annoyance is the
difficulty setting the table to a specified X (side-to-side) location. One
would overshoot, in both directions. My first theory was that this was because
the X-axis feeedscrew and nut were worn, but I wondered if there was an
adjustment needing attention, so I got a bright light and looked at the screw as
I cranked the table back and forth. I could see that things were moving a bit
at the left end, where the leadscrew is fixed to the table by two opposing
thrust ball bearings, so I decided to take this assembly apart and de-spooge it.

This assembly has never before been disassembled, I think. The three hex socket
cap screws that hold the left end "bell" to the table were glued in place by
well-hardened spooge, and took some force to disassemble, and there were lumps
of spooge everywhere. Oddly, the deep blind threaded holes into which these cap
screws go were filled with oily swarf. Cleaned everything out.

It turned out that one of the thrust ball bearings was caked with hardened
grease, being unable to move, and so the whole assembly rotated, forcing the
preload nut to turn and loosen, so everything could move. This was a major
cause of lost motion.

Soaking the two thrust bearings in acetone for four hours dissolved the caked
grease and allowed free rotation and full cleanout. Bearings looked OK, so
packed them with Mobil-1 synthetic grease and reassembled the end assembly. The
preload nut is round and engages threads machined into the feedscrew, rotation
being prevented by a setscrew in the nut. I didn't like the idea of mashing a
cup-point setscrew down on and mangling those threads, so I put a little piece
of annealed copper in under the setscrew, so the copper would mash and conform
to the steel threads. I tightened the nut first by hand, and then by an added
1/8 turn with a pin spanner wrench, only then driving the setscrew home, so
there is a slight drag when cranking the screw.

The lost motion is now about 0.025", which isn't much better than what it was
before, but it does seem easier to set the table to a desired location. I'll
use the mill for a while and see if this is really true. With a DRO, the real
issue is ability to set to a desired location, not the accuracy of the screw.
Both the leadscrew and matching nut (5 tpi) are made of steel, but the nut
(being far shorter) should have suffered more wear than the screw.

Joe Gwinn

==============================================================================
TOPIC: An open letter to conservatives
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/9be56917d888f492?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:16 pm
From: "Stormin Mormon"

This sounds a lot like Obama's rebuke of Republicans. With
all the condescension and lying to go with it. I wonder if
anyone actually believes this stuff?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"sittingduck" <duck@spamherelots.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9D48CC969CF9Aduckrulestheuniverse@nomail.afraid.org...
An open letter to conservatives
March 22, 2010, 3:16PM
http://tinyurl.com/yc55hxj
VERY WELL REFERENCED, read at TPM for more info.

Dear Conservative Americans,

The years have not been kind to you. I grew up in a
profoundly Republican
home,
so I can remember when you wore a very different face than
the one we see
now.
You've lost me and you've lost most of America. Because I
believe having
responsible choices is important to democracy, I'd like to
give you some
advice
and an invitation.

First, the invitation: Come back to us.

Now the advice. You're going to have to come up with a
platform that isn't
built on a foundation of cowardice: fear of people with
colors, religions,
cultures and sex lives that differ from your own; fear of
reform in
banking,
health care, energy; fantasy fears of America being
transformed into an
Islamic
nation, into social/commun/fasc-ism, into a disarmed
populace put in
internment
camps; and more. But you have work to do even before you
take on that task.

Your party -- the GOP -- and the conservative end of the
American political
spectrum have become irresponsible and irrational. Worse,
it's tolerating,
promoting and celebrating prejudice and hatred. Let me
provide some
examples --
by no means an exhaustive list -- of where the Right as
gotten itself stuck
in
a swamp of hypocrisy, hyperbole, historical inaccuracy and
hatred.

If you're going to regain your stature as a party of
rational, responsible
people, you'll have to start by draining this swamp:

Hypocrisy

You can't flip out -- and threaten impeachment - when Dems
use a
parliamentary
procedure (deem and pass) that you used repeatedly (more
than 35 times in
just
one session and more than 100 times in all!), that's
centuries old and
which
the courts have supported. Especially when your leaders
admit it all.

You can't vote and scream against the stimulus package and
then take credit
for
the good it's done in your own district (happily handing out
enormous
checks
representing money that you voted against, is especially
ugly) -- 114 of
you
(at last count) did just that -- and it's even worse when
you secretly beg
for
more.

You can't fight against your own ideas just because the Dem
president
endorses
your proposal.

You can't call for a pay-as-you-go policy, and then vote
against your own
ideas.

Are they "unlawful enemy combatants" or are they "prisoners
of war" at
Gitmo?
You can't have it both ways.

You can't carry on about the evils of government spending
when your family
has
accepted more than a quarter-million dollars in government
handouts.

You can't refuse to go to a scheduled meeting, to which you
were invited,
and
then blame the Dems because they didn't meet with you.

You can't rail against using teleprompters while using
teleprompters.
Repeatedly.

You can't rail against the bank bailouts when you supported
them as they
were
happening.

You can't be for immigration reform, then against it .

You can't enjoy socialized medicine while condemning it.

You can't flip out when the black president puts his feet on
the
presidential
desk when you were silent about white presidents doing the
same. Bush.
Ford.

You can't complain that the president hasn't closed Gitmo
yet when you've
campaigned to keep Gitmo open.

You can't flip out when the black president bows to foreign
dignitaries, as
appropriate for their culture, when you were silent when the
white
presidents
did the same. Bush. Nixon. Ike. You didn't even make a peep
when Bush held
hands and kissed (on the mouth) leaders of countries that
are not on
"kissing
terms" with the US.

You can't complain that the undies bomber was read his
Miranda rights under
Obama when the shoe bomber was read his Miranda rights under
Bush and you
remained silent. (And, no, Newt -- the shoe bomber was not a
US citizen
either,
so there is no difference.)

You can't attack the Dem president for not personally*
publicly condemning
a
terrorist event for 72 hours when you said nothing about the
Rep president
waiting 6 days in an eerily similar incident (and, even
then, he didn't
issue
any condemnation). *Obama administration did the day of the
event.

You can't throw a hissy fit, sound alarms and cry that Obama
freed Gitmo
prisoners who later helped plan the Christmas Day undie
bombing, when -- in
fact -- only one former Gitmo detainee, released by Dick
Cheney and George
W.
Bush, helped to plan the failed attack.

You can't condemn blaming the Republican president for an
attempted terror
attack on his watch, then blame the Dem president for an
attempted terror
attack on his.

You can't mount a boycott against singers who say they're
ashamed of the
president for starting a war, but remain silent when another
singer says
he's
ashamed of the president and falsely calls him a Maoist who
makes him want
to
throw up and says he ought to be in jail.

You can't cry that the health care bill is too long, then
cry that it's too
short.

You can't support the individual mandate for health
insurance, then call it
unconstitutional when Dems propose it and campaign against
your own ideas.

You can't demand television coverage, then whine about it
when you get it.
Repeatedly.

You can't praise criminal trials in US courts for terror
suspects under a
Rep
president, then call it "treasonous" under a Dem president.

You can't propose ideas to create jobs, and then work
against them when the
Dems put your ideas in a bill.

You can't be both pro-choice and anti-choice.

You can't damn someone for failing to pay $900 in taxes when
you've paid
nearly
$20,000 in IRS fines.

You can't condemn criticizing the president when US troops
are in harms
way,
then attack the president when US troops are in harms way ,
the only
difference
being the president's party affiliation (and, by the way,
armed conflict
does
NOT remove our right and our duty as Americans to speak up).

You can't be both for cap-and-trade policy and against it.

You can't vote to block debate on a bill, then bemoan the
lack of 'open
debate'.

If you push anti-gay legislation and make anti-gay speeches,
you should
probably take a pass on having gay sex, regardless of
whether it's 2004 or
2010. This is true, too, if you're taking GOP money and
giving anti-gay
rants
on CNN. Taking right-wing money and GOP favors to write
anti-gay stories
for
news sites while working as a gay prostitute, doubles down
on both the
hypocrisy and the prostitution. This is especially true if
you claim your
anti-
gay stand is God's stand, too.

When you chair the House Caucus on Missing and Exploited
Children, you
can't
send sexy emails to 16-year-old boys (illegal anyway, but
you made it
hypocritical as well).

You can't criticize Dems for not doing something you didn't
do while you
held
power over the past 16 years, especially when the Dems have
done more in
one
year than you did in 16.

You can't decry "name calling" when you've been the most
consistent and
outrageous at it. And the most vile.

You can't spend more than 40 years hating, cutting and
trying to kill
Medicare,
and then pretend to be the defenders of Medicare

You can't praise the Congressional Budget Office when it's
analysis
produces
numbers that fit your political agenda, then claim it's
unreliable when it
comes up with numbers that don't.

You can't vote for X under a Republican president, then vote
against X
under a
Democratic president. Either you support X or you don't. And
it makes it
worse
when you change your position merely for the sake
obstructionism.

You can't call a reconciliation out of bounds when you used
it repeatedly.

You can't spend taxpayer money on ads against spending
taxpayer money.

You can't condemn individual health insurance mandates in a
Dem bill, when
the
mandates were your idea.

You can't demand everyone listen to the generals when they
say what fits
your
agenda, and then ignore them when they don't.

You can't whine that it's unfair when people accuse you of
exploiting
racism
for political gain, when your party's former leader admits
you've been
doing it
for decades.

You can't portray yourself as fighting terrorists when you
openly and
passionately support terrorists.

You can't complain about a lack of bipartisanship when
you've routinely
obstructed for the sake of political gain -- threatening to
filibuster at
least
100 pieces of legislation in one session, far more than any
other since the
procedural tactic was invented -- and admitted it. Some
admissions are
unintentional, others are made proudly. This is especially
true when the
bill
is the result of decades of compromise between the two
parties and is
filled
with your own ideas.

You can't question the loyalty of Department of Justice
lawyers when you
didn't
object when your own Republican president appointed them.

You can't preach and try to legislate "Family Values" when
you: take nude
hot
tub dips with teenagers (and pay them hush money); cheat on
your wife with
a
secret lover and lie about it to the world; cheat with a
staffer's wife
(and
pay them off with a new job); pay hookers for sex while
wearing a diaper
and
cheating on your wife; or just enjoying an old fashioned
non-kinky cheating
on
your wife; try to have gay sex in a public toilet; authorize
the rape of
children in Iraqi prisons to coerce their parents into
providing
information;
seek, look at or have sex with children; replace a guy who
cheats on his
wife
with a guy who cheats on his pregnant wife with his wife's
mother;

Hyperbole

You really need to disassociate with those among you who:

* assert that people making a quarter-million dollars a year
can barely
make
ends meet or that $1 million "isn't a lot of money";
* say that "Comrade" Obama is a "Bolshevik" who is "taking
cues from
Lenin";
* ignore the many times your buddies use a term that offends
you and
complain
only when a Dem says it;
* liken political opponents to murderers, rapists, and "this
Muslim guy"
that
"offed his wife's head" or call then "un-American";
* say Obama "wants his plan to fail...so that he can make
the case for bank
nationalization and vindicate his dream of a socialist
economy";
* equate putting the good of the people ahead of your
personal fortunes
with
terrorism;
* smear an entire major religion with the actions of a few
fanatics;
* say that the president wants to "annihilate us";
* compare health care reform with the bombing of Pearl
Harbor, a Bolshevik
plot
the attack on 9/11,or reviving the ghosts of communist
dictators (update:
it's
also not Armageddon);
* equate our disease-fighting stem cell research with "what
the Nazis did";
* call a bill passed by the majority of both houses of
Congress, by members
of
Congress each elected by a majority in their districts, an
unconscionable
abuse
of power, a violation of the presidential oath or "the end
of
representative
government";
* shout "baby killer" at a member of Congress on the floor
of the House,
especially one who so fought against abortion rights that he
nearly killed
health care reform (in fact, a little decorum, a little
respect for our
national institutions and the people and the values they
represent, would
be
refreshing -- cut out the shouting, the swearing and the
obscenities);
* prove your machismo by claiming your going to "crash a
party" to which
you're
officially invited;
* claim that Obama is pushing America's "submission to
Shariah";
* question the patriotism of people upholding cherished
American values and
the
rule of law;
* claim the president is making us less safe without a hint
of evidence;
* call a majority vote the "tyranny of the minority," even
if you meant to
call
it tyranny of the majority -- it's democracy, not tyranny;
* call the president's support of a criminal trial for a
terror suspect
"treasonous" (especially when you supported the same thing
when the
president
shared your party);
* call the Pope the anti-Christ;
* assert that the constitutionally mandated census is an
attempt to enslave
us;
* accuse opponents of being backed by Arab slave-drivers or
of being drunk
and
suicidal;
* equate family planning with eugenics or Nazism;
* accuse the president of changing the missile defense
program's logo to
match
his campaign logo and reflect what you say is his secret
Muslim identity;
* accuse political opponents of being totalitarians,
socialists,
communists,
fascists, Marxists; terrorist sympathizers, McCarthy-like,
Nazis or drug
pushers; and
* advocate a traitorous act like secession, violent
revolution , military
coup
or civil war (just so we're clear: sedition is a bad thing).

History

If you're going to use words like socialism, communism and
fascism, you
must
have at least a basic understanding of what those words mean
(hint: they're
NOT
synonymous!)

You can't cut a leading Founding Father out the history
books because
you've
decided you don't like his ideas.

You cant repeatedly assert that the president refuses to say
the word
"terrorism" or say we're at war with terror when we have an
awful lot of
videotape showing him repeatedly assailing terrorism and
using those exact
words.

If you're going to invoke the names of historical figures,
it does not
serve
you well to whitewash them. Especially this one.

You can't just pretend historical events didn't happen in an
effort to make
a
political opponent look dishonest or to make your side look
better.
Especially
these events. (And, no, repeating it doesn't make it
better.)

You can't say things that are simply and demonstrably false:
health care
reform
will not push people out of their private insurance and into
a government-
run
program ; health care reform (which contains a good many of
your ideas and
very
few from the Left) is a long way from "socialist utopia";
health care
reform is
not "reparations"; nor does health care reform create "death
panels".

Hatred

You have to condemn those among you who:

* call members of Congress n*gger and f*ggot;
* elected leaders who say "I'm a proud racist";
* state that America has been built by white people;
* say that poor people are poor because they're rotten
people, call them
"parasitic garbage" or say they shouldn't be allowed to
vote;
* call women bitches and prostitutes just because you don't
like their
politics
( re - pea -ted - ly );
* assert that the women who are serving our nation in
uniform are hookers;
* mock and celebrate the death of a grandmother because you
disagree with
her
son's politics;
* declare that those who disagree with you are shown by that
disagreement
to be
not just "Marxist radicals" but also monsters and a deadly
disease killing
the
nation (this would fit in the hyperbole and history
categories, too);
* joke about blindness;
* advocate euthanizing the wife of your political opponent;
* taunt people with incurable, life-threatening diseases --
especially if
you
do it on a syndicated broadcast;
* equate gay love with bestiality -- involving horses or
dogs or turtles or
ducks -- or polygamy, child molestation, pedophilia;
* casually assume that only white males look "like a real
American";
* assert presidential power to authorize torture, torture a
child by having
his
testicles crushed in front of his parents to get them to
talk, order the
massacre of a civilian village and launch a nuclear attack
without the
consent
of Congress;
* attack children whose mothers have died;
* call people racists without producing a shred of evidence
that they've
said
or done something that would even smell like racism -- same
for invoking
racially charged "dog whistle" words (repeatedly);
* condemn the one thing that every major religion agrees on;
* complain that we no longer employ the tactics we once used
to
disenfranchise
millions of Americans because of their race;
* blame the victims of natural disasters and terrorist
attacks for their
suffering and losses;
* celebrate violence , joke about violence, prepare for
violence or use
violent
imagery, "fun" political violence, hints of violence,
threats of violence
(this
one is rather explicit), suggestions of violence or actual
violence (and,
really, suggesting anal rape with a hot piece of metal is
beyond the pale);
and
* incite insurrection telling people to get their guns ready
for a "bloody
battle" with the president of the United States.

Oh, and I'm not alone: One of your most respected and
decorated leaders
agrees
with me.

So, dear conservatives, get to work. Drain the swamp of the
conspiracy
nuts,
the bald-faced liars undeterred by demonstrable facts, the
overt hypocrisy
and
the hatred. Then offer us a calm, responsible, grownup
agenda based on your
values and your vision for America. We may or may not agree
with your
values
and vision, but we'll certainly welcome you back to the
American mainstream
with open arms. We need you.

(Anticipating your initial response: No there is nothing
that even comes
close
to this level of wingnuttery on the American Left.)

Written by Russell King

--
Rationality belongs to the cool observer, but because of the
stupidity of
the average man, he follows not reason but faith - Reinhold
Niebuhr

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Palin owes taxes
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/158e858323ac6ba7?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:27 pm
From: Winston_Smith

Too_Many_Tools <too_many_tools@yahoo.com> wrote:

>what is the going price for a middle aged hooker in Alaska these days?

About the same as in Democrat Washington.

__
WS in a.s and m.s
Two parties, not a dimes worth of difference.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: DIY surge protection...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/fa560b93f2504a9b?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 5:59 pm
From: westom

On Mar 28, 9:18 am, trad...@optonline.net wrote:
> Square the above statement with calling those manufacturers
> "responsible". How can they be responsible if they are selling
> dangerous and ineffective products?

Even I would sell you the Brooklyn Bridge if you want to buy it.
After all, why should I keep you from scamming yourself. Meanwhile,
only responsible companies also sell the well proven and effective
'whole house' protectors - no matter how he will spin it into a lie.

Again he reposts the same lie. He has done this often through the
years. I did not call protectors "totally useless". But then trader
reads what emotions tell him to read. I called them ineffective. The
NIST called them "useless":
> The best surge protector in the world can be useless if
> grounding is not done properly.

Ham radio operators who also learn this stuff from professionals,
science, and experience say same: "grounding system"
http://lists.contesting.com/_towertalk/2002-07/msg00760.html
1. Engineer your station to *keep the lightning out*.
2. High floor hamshack locations need to have their SPG lightning
protection at a ground level entry-point. From there, run your coax/
control cables inside. ...
4. Read the PolyPhaser book(s)

So those who use education and science learn from responsible
companies such as Polyphase (trader will not)r:
http://www.polyphaser.com/technical_notes.aspx

Keep lightning out is about where energy dissipates. Either energy
dissipates harmlessly in earth - outside the building. Or energy is
inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. Ham radio
operators get to learn this quicker because Ham stations suffer even
more surges.

From K7LXC@aol.com in "grounding system":
http://lists.contesting.com/_towertalk/2002-07/msg00759.html
>> Trying to engineer for a direct hit is impossible with the light
>> gauge metals and structures that are quite flimsy when compared
>> to a bridge or a sky-scraper.

> Apples and oranges, dear boy. It's relatively easy to engineer for a direct hit -
> professionals do it everyday. And hundreds of sites take direct hits
> everyday with no damage. The techniques and materials are well
> documented.

But again what we know because we learned from science - not
propaganda from retail shelves.

Who to believe? People who do this stuff without damage? And who
learned basic electrical concepts? Or trader who routinely does his
usual attacks. He knows only because sales propaganda and his
emotions educated him. His ego will not permit him to admit he was
deceived..

None of which changes what the electrically trained knew even 100
years ago. Protection is always about where energy dissipates. A
protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

Attacks will continue. More professionals will be quoted to expose
that liar's attacks. As the same posters have done for years - attacks
will continue infinitely. Where is that manufacturer numeric spec
that claims protection? Been asking those questions for years. Not
once did any one provide those spec numbers. No plug-in protector
claims protection in the spec numbers.

Where are those spec numbers that list each type of surge and
protection from that surge? Never provided because it cannot exist.
As the NIST said,
> The best surge protector in the world can be useless if grounding
> is not done properly.
A protector is only as effective as its earth ground - which trader
must misrepresent to post more accusations. Where is that numeric
spec that provides protection? He never posts specifications - only
nasty attacks.

== 2 of 2 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 6:12 pm
From: westom

On Mar 28, 5:19 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
wrote:
> Yawn. So many lies, so few neurons.

Translations. You said no numbers exist because you never learned
how electricity works. Those numbers are from the Bell System
Technical Journals. Only one of us learned this stuff.

He said those numbers do not exist. Stated was that telco COs
suffer about 100 surges with each thunderstorm. Actual numbers are
maybe 30 to 50 surges per cable times how many incoming cables? Well
over 100 surges with each thunderstorm. And no damage. Telcos use
'whole house' protectors. Waste no money on overpriced and
ineffective plug-in protectors. Therefore have no damage

Yawn is Michael Terrell avoiding his problem: insufficient
electrical knowledge. Yawn because he was again caught posting a
lie. His insufficient education has been exposed so often that
Michael will constantly post disparaging remarks - and no technical
knowledge..

Reality remains as it was 100 years ago. Protection is always about
where energy dissipates. A protector is only as effective as its
earth ground. Reality that makes Michael so enraged as to post
personal attacks rather than science numbers and professional
citations.

==============================================================================
TOPIC: Help Finding Hardware?
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.crafts.metalworking/t/0c19600de734d301?hl=en
==============================================================================

== 1 of 1 ==
Date: Sun, Mar 28 2010 6:06 pm
From: "Denis G."

On Mar 28, 4:12 pm, Doug White <gwh...@alum.mit.edu> wrote:
> I'm going nuts trying to locate a source for a specific size of
> wire/cable clip/clamp. Here's a picture:
>
> http://users.rcn.com/gwhite/Misc/Wire_Clips.jpg
>
> They are 3/8" wide, and fit a 1/8" diameter cable. The screw hole is ~
> 0.150" in diameter, so they easily take a #6 screw. I have a couple in
> my miscellaneous hardware collection. Some have an oxidized tin finish,
> and some appear to be bright zinc plated. I have no idea where the ones
> I have came from, or how ancient they might be. They can't be that
> exotic, given that I have some from two different sources.
>
> I have tried McMaster Carr, Keystone, Heyco, Digikey, Allied, Mouser,
> etc., to no avail. Part of the problem is that everyone calls them
> something slightly different. Most of the clips only go down to half an
> inch wide, which won't work. The only 3/8" wide clips I can find are
> from KMC Stampings, and they have a 1/8th inch hole, which won't take a #
> 6 screw.
>
> I need ~ 100 of these for a product I have in mind, so it's more than I
> want to drill out, and too few to warrant ordering them custom. The
> alternative to these clamps is to do a lot more machining, which will
> probably render the entire effort uneconomical. It took me a couple
> weeks of pondering to come up with this approach, and given that I
> already have enough to build some prototypes, I figured I was all set.
>
> I've mostly been focusing on electronics vendors, because that is the
> most likely source for the ones I have. They could also be used to hold
> down tubing on something, or control cables on lawn mowers, etc.
>
> Does anyone recognize these & can you recommend a supplier?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Doug White

See page 18 of this catalog section:
http://www.seastrom-mfg.com/seastrom_manufacturing_catalog/Catalog%20Pdf/Clamps%20and%20Brackets.pdf
I think that Seastrom p/n: 5300-6-Z3 (zinc plated) might fit the bill.

==============================================================================

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Sunday, March 28, 2010

rec.crafts.metalworking - 25 new messages in 13 topics - digest

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